The parts for the motors should be readily available for the customers to buy,after the warranty is up,so say if a circuit board goes it can be replaced
No way. I agree dealers should but customers no. From what i see on non ebikes and basic parts, i dont want customers getting into these things and then brining it for me to fix
I expect that due to our muddy conditions we wash our bikes much more than drier climates, and I often see people too willing to use pressure washers on their bikes. I imagine this the biggest cause of broken motors / electronics, but also of bearings on linkages and cranks on regular mtbs. "Sealed" bearings aren't going to cope with water under pressure.
I've seen the same problem on a regular bike on another channel, the owner was pressure washing their bike after each use, and washed all the lubrication our of the crankset, causing extra wear and tear.
Sealing a rotating shaft against muddy water is a race against time : A seal will always end up failing vs mud at some point. Even the best seals used on HD and recreational off road machines. What the MtB motor makers need to implement is an easy user changeable seal for each of their shaft interfaces. And clearly ask for a yearly exchange of all the motor seals or every 150h (example) use under real MtB conditions. The same way we change our forks upper seals and oil every year or 100h use.... target is to keep the motor going for at least 20 or 30 000 km before any heavy maintenance inside it and then be able to do that maintenance with spare parts available and clear repair manual free to download to anybody.
This is a great solution. Units are sealed but dealers can do very little preventative maintenance to ensure customers bikes dont break. I have one that’s done 2500km at the moment and his bearings are shot and luckily its within warranty but this could have been prevented
Never had an electrical fault on any of my E-bikes hardware or software 2020+ All Bosch motors. I maintain and look after my own, as best as possible. I’d only have a Brose or Bosch motor.
Love your channel, your accent, your skiles and knowledge, bit of set humor also appreciated, lovely all in all. I’ll be buying my first e-bike this year, Tenways Ago X. It has a Bafang motor, you’ve reviewed one, really looking forward to it! 😊 Regarding wear and tear and ultimately faulty motors and environment. Yes wet is probably not good, but salty air from the sea might be a factor too. Ask the dutchies I recommend! I am also one though I live in Germany now. Keep it up, lovely videos!
Chuffinell Dave! 😅 Wish it was sunny but we've got to face facts - the UK weather is the worst! Off to Bike Park Wales for the weekend - they've had 13 named storms in the space of one year - a record for them! Great video as always 👍
I love my electric Brompton but I’m on my 4th motor. I suspect it’s mainly because of water ingress likely made worse because with the 16 inch wheels, the motor and components are closer to the ground than a larger wheeled bike. I do necessarily ride it on country lanes but I do try and avoid puddles but it isn’t always possible. Thanks for your film.
A quality bike shop is valuable when things go wrong and just as valuable if you want your machine running sweetly. Like you say, It is what we do everyday. Keep up the good work Dave.
Nice one Dave, this is indeed welcome news. An issue for us with e motor failure, wether in warranty or not, is the time with no bike whilst it is remedied. As riding bikes is our main thing I was keen to buy the wife a spare motor should hers conk whilst on a MTB holiday. This proved costly and it wasn't definite I would just be able to bolt the thing on myself in an emergency without being linked to some kind of software. Hopefully the economies of scale will eventually bring prices of motors down to a price that having a spare is a feasible thing to do. Keep us informed Dave, you're the man👍
Aren't modern motors paired to bike display/control panel in some way that "diy mechanics" can't just swap new motor? I think Bosch does that drm thing.
@@PerSkeles That is usually the case. Everything is proprietary. If you do any little thing yourself, you void the warranty and likely brick the motor controller. You will be looking at a new bike.
My bbh bafang with more than 2k miles on it over 2.5 years never needed replacement of one single piece. Not to mention the availability of bafang parts everywhere.
I have the BBS92, I have us this in all weather's. The controller needs replaced and bearings get done yearly. It's one of the best mid drive motors available and you can be get the battery recelled
I’m a year in to e-bike riding and after 1200miles of uk riding and a lot of mud this winter the motor is throwing up error codes and not working. It’s in with the dealer I bought it from this week so let’s see what the Bosch warranty is like. I was hoping for better reliability.
I think water damage is a big factor of engine failures nowadays.. but i also think many engines are "bricked" because of the improved anti tamper tech in them. Anyway another great video.. always nice to hear the LBS perspective on things!
@@rouxenophobe Nope, people try to make these motors go faster. When the system detects tampering with the speed sensors it will warn and shut down. "Go see your dealer"
I have owned a hard tail 7 from 2015 with the Yamaha motor. It’s washed by hand and the power washer remains in the garage. My LBS has done the servicing with the usual consumable items replaced and I’ve had the battery replaced after 5 years. Apart from that it hasn’t missed a beat, so I can’t complain.
The weather has been shocking, but these motors really do need more than just a sealed bearing on the cranks - at least put a proper seal in rather than relying on the bearing. They should also be made more easily servicable so the bearings can be swapped out without pulling the whole thing apart!
I wish there was a twin brother of your out in California my local e-bike shop guy is a jerk off but luckily for me the Bosch motor is so easy to work on I have 18000 miles on my motor and I’ve just replaced my bearings for the second time just changed them out for a third time just love having fresh bearings after a rough winter I’ve broken the crank shaft twice I go more through cassettes and chains the most. Oh I’m riding a hibike 3.0 gen two motor 170 travel in the front 170 in the back on 27.5 + tires thanks for all the info you put out.
Thanks for watching and your comments, please consider a super thanks if you found this video helpful, it helps to support further videos. thanks again
I agree when I see no waterproofing, and that includes waterproofing the controller bds and waterproofing connectors and over designing bearings for pedal strike.
Friends Shimano two months out of warranty replaced for free. Mine still under warranty, no faults yet other than a battery related fault which I didn't even notice at the time only noticed it a month or two later when I connected etube app
I've clocked up over 10,000km on my Bosch powered e-bike so far and it still rides like the very first day I bought it. I ride between 50-60km everyday of the week on my commute and sometimes if the weather is good I will do over 100km on Sundays. The motor is mounted on a Trek commuter bike. I must mention that I never ride my e-bike if it's raining, so the motor has never experienced water, only the occasional puddle or wet spot from sprinklers etc.
no water, no mud contact is key to the longevity of Bosch motors... but an MtB MUST survive mud contact as long as possible and be easily maintainable (change the seals by users). That is not yet the case ....
Actually you are absolutly correct, I have an ebike and within the first two years of owning it the motor started to play up, i'm not a person to throw things aways so I pulled it apart checked the motor it was full or rust, and not only that it was full of rust the rust was making it grind and lock. But the up side to this is, if you catch it early enough, you can clean the motor off with a stiff brush get rid of the rust, recoat the windings and make sure the bearings are good re-pack the bearings and the motor will be good to go again so long as nothing has broken, hence why I said if you catch it early enough. So yep the motors are failing because of the water. So to seal the motor to stop the water getting in I simply got some silicon rubber ie mastic and spread it around the tiny tap in the motor. It worked a treat, no more water getting into the motor job done, last time I took the motor apart because the bearings were making some noise the motor was clean no rust, but the bearings needed re-packing due to dust. So perhaps they leave a small gap to allow dust to escape, but I would rather clean it out with a brush every so many thousand miles and my little ebike has done approximately 8 thousand miles judging on the milage I used to do on my motorcycle and I'm doing exactly the same on my little ebike that cost me less than 800 pounds all in with all the changes I did to it.
I’ve been riding my EP8 for about 6 months with almost 2000km and it’s mostly been good. Living in kind of a similar climate in BC, Canada, wet winters. I had errors at first which seemed to all get resolved with a software update which was nice. Recently though I have noticed a steady audible knocking sound which I can also feel on the handlebars when putting a lot of force in the pedals when going up the mountains. Not sure if something is starting to fail in the motor but I suppose time will tell. If it does I hope it happens before the 2 year warranty.
My old Bosch gen2 absolutely refuses to die. 12000km, 6yr and one accidental complete submerging it will not stop. New CX gen4 2,500+km running smooth as silk.
I purchased a Bafang M510 motor to go into a project used Vitus E Mythique. Found the socket board to be water damaged due to water ingress and bearings almost seizing. The drive side seal seams to be poor quality so Iv replaced this and the socket board hopefully this will fix it but the wet weather does kill some poor build quality motors the QC isn’t so good on some.
I bought a perfectly rideable and in good condition saracen tuff trax from 1988 the other day, there are many 80's 90's and 2000 plus bikes still working fine and for sale, you won't be seeing any modern ebikes not in landfill 10 years after manufacture, plus the electronic waste of batteries, circuit boards etc, now imagine that waste on a global scale...... Great video, always love your videos and i do like ebikes, but the cost to the environment is huge
The batteries are recyclable, just like the frame and everything except the rubber and plastic parts. I will agree it probably will go quicker than Amish bikes, It doesn't mean It can't be recycled
Yesterday I bought a 1999 Marin Palisades trail large 20" in near mint condition, Facebook Market Place in Chesterfield for 😅 get ready 😮 £30 😅 ,she's absolutely BEAUTIFUL 😍 ,I'm 55 and always been a Marin Man 🇬🇧🤠🤟🇺🇸💯
And about time you did a post Dave K you’re been mist lad. Ill call in next time I’m passing. I watch a CZcams channel from ebike motor centre and he says the same most motors are water damaged but he’s putting a upgraded seal on he’s repairs
Had my Bosch gen 4 motor repaired there, fantastic service and yep, their proprietary seals designed for the job prevent water ingress. E-bike motor repair centre, Sandle Heath, Hampshire. Genuine champs at diagnostics and actually helping to develop improvements in motor design and water ingress prevention. 👍🏻🏴
I have a Focus Sam2 with only 2700km on it. I’m in Brisbane Australia so the weather is not an issue down here. My bike has been diagnosed with a short circuit issue rendering it caput, new motor time for me. Bosch won’t help out at all as I am the second owner. Bike had done 250km when I bought it. It is a 21 model. One very very unhappy owner. It’s disgusting, original owner or not, this motor is just not fit for purpose.
My Haibike Bosch Gen 3 motor was replaced after just over 2 years, but Bosch was kind enough to do it as a warranty fix. The 2021 bike has quite large vents underneath the motor and I can't help thinking this is asking for trouble. I never use a hose as I'm paranoid this will add to the risk.
Bosch motor, 18 months no issues. Key is don't overcharge ie 100% or let it drop below 20% too often, use regularly and only charge right before you use it.
Given the foreseeable duty of the Brose motor on my Levo, it is idiotic that water can get into electrical connectors and along shafts, into the bearings. I’ve worked in the power industry where we use submersible pumps that run for years with minimal maintenance in sea-water and chemically tainted water. What maintenance is straightforward with care. The methods for keeping water out are well known except in the bike industry where you get charged £750 for a non watertight motor for a mountain bike. I rode motorcycle trials for years, engine regularly submerged crossing rivers without a drop of water getting into the engine, gearbox or electrics. For heaven’s sake, the bloody Brose motor relies on a dob of grease and a 50p o-ring to seal the concentric shafts on the right side. Designed by a chump! All the connectors were going green as the quality is rubbish and no silicon grease had been applied. Modern cars have submersible connectors so what’s the excuse? Again, designed by someone who is clueless about operating conditions!
The way I look at it: It's just another thing on your bike that will eventually fail. There are enough things on my bike that fail and I don't need another.
My Kalkhoff lasted 15 dry miles impulse 2.0 motors brand new in 2017 and no dealer support near me so left to rust in my garage since the lurgy.. time to list it on an auction site
I don’t believe it’s not possible to make the motors more waterproof. It’s almost as if the manufacturers don’t want to put the effort in. Good to see you back 😊
Cracking video as always Dave cheers. Is there any motors out there rated to IP68 yet? I know some batteries are but they are not getting submerged. Also would help if they used marine grade connectors instead of automotive grade
Hi, hope you are well. It's very difficult to point the cause at any one area, personally I think its bearings water ingress myself mainly. some people not all are not taking enough care when cleaning or using jetwash. the problem is that we cant tell if its normal water ingress from bad weather or is it jetwash. the pedal motion combine with the torque and the clatter they take im not suprised that they wear quickly. I dont think there is an easy answer, but they need more r&d
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic yeah like you say if the issue is mainly wet weather countries only it won’t justify r&d costs, would be good if they could do an IP68 version though as that means you can jet wash them. Otherwise design them so bearing/torque sensor can be easily replaced. I’ve had 2 new motors on my Trek rail which I,m still convinced is to do with the RIB design and battery connector having no allowance for flex in frame. Also got the new Levo SL and already had a motor replaced in that too due to rough bearing causing issue with torque sensor, and no I don’t use jet wash, I guess it’s just Peak District wrecking paste 😂
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic there is a video by Paul Kent, a long distance skateboarder who uses marine grease in his bearings for waterproofing them. I tried his idea this last winter in my skateboard with great success. this is relevant because those bearings are notorious for not being waterproof at all to the point that most people would never ride their board in the rain. I think this idea might translate quite well to mid-drive motor bearings. It's not going to be recommended by any sensible person because the grease just is a bit thick, but I'm telling you it's fine. It's such a sticky grease if you get it on your fingers you'll have a long session of washing up after. There's phil wood's waterproof grease, I couldn't find the stuff locally so used Liqui-Moly "Bootsfett". good stuff
Ebikes are awesome, the cost of ownership is too high when you factor in inevitable failed motor/batteries. The industry needs to have a good look at sustainability and servicing rather than replace.
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic yeh shimano in all fairness have been great, the only gripe I have is they are a little slow to respond, but you get there in the end.
Ay up Dave, I’ve a theory that pedal strikes cause the damage and wear to bearings and therefore seals which in turn allows water ingress Having said that my last motor expired after 450 miles ( about 5 months ) when they’ve previously lasted 1500-2000 miles Loving your content, keep up the good work 👍🏻
I have an ebike with a Yamaha motor any idea of the support they provide? I love watching your videos . It's a pity you are so far from where I live as if I have a problem with my bike I know I would get it sorted properly.
The only way to keep the moisture out is to provide positive air flow from a 25mm mini computer fan that draws air from inside the frame near the steering head. It should run constantly when bike is turned on and switchable when you are washing it or suspect it needs drying out. A bag of moisture absorbing crystal would also help inside the case. E=Mtb²
@@JohnnyMotel99 You are right but some motors Brose for example don't have any seals around the cranks. A problem is that a cooling hollow object will suck in any moisture because a vacuum is created as it cools. That's why a minute amount of positive air pressure from inside a breathing motor will work to keep the motor dry and clean . But what would I know 🤔 E=Mtb²
Hi Dave, I think that part of the decision making when buying an ebike is what the back-up will be in the (inevitable) event something goes wrong. It’s all well and good having a awesome suspension and parts package, but if you have to wait ages for a warranty repair or a spare part for a peculiar motor, thinking less mainstream such as TQ or Fazua, then how good the bike rides is irrelevant if it’s gathering dust. It’d be interesting to hear how many of each of the motors you get through the shop, and the proportion that can be repaired or are just replaced?
Bosch performance line gen 3, 65nm, 2200 miles in all weather on hilly 5-10 mile daily commute, never pressure washed, zero mechanical problems but it is noticeably noisier than when new. I feel sure that the bearings just need greasing up rather than replacing, either way this should be an easy option as it is basic maintenance. Bosch need to address this imo.
I run 6 eBikes, an early Bosch with 10,000 dealer serviced miles, another self build hardtail two 2017 Yamaha Haibikes and an upright. My favourite is a 2018 Merida 160 full sus but has had the worst motor history - all replaced foc by Shimano through my dealer. My issue is with the new Bosch smart motor "walk assist" which is pants - why is this. At age 70, for Glentress Black Run and the like, I need an effective walk assist for 200 yard + climbs when I cannot manage to remount say on the Hardknott Pass or the Bealach, but especially on long cross country trails in Torridon. The Trek Powerfly has excellent walk assist but the Rail 9.8 has not - is there any way to restore this to the haul ass performance of the Powerfly walk assist mode? Love your channel!
Being a mountain biker since I was a nipper, and a keen motorcyclist I simply can't see the appeal of investing lots of money into something that won't last long term, That said I love the concept of e bikes, and probably will buy one at the right price eventually
So. I do a lot of riding on my eBike. My frist Specialized Levo motor lasted about 2500 miles and this second one is at about 4800 miles. Maybe 5K at this point. The second one seems to be having a failing bearing on the crank. It squeaks now when I am peddling. Which is just annoying and hasn't caused any peddling issues. The first motor had a terrible failure after I had ridden through a creek. Didn't realize it was deep enough to get to the crank area. But alas it was warrantied anyways. But I put a lot of miles on my motors. And I would say that the Brose does put up with a fair amount of beating. I just wish they did a better job of sealing the crank area. Because I was careful with this motor and I still seem to be having a failure point that will have to be warrantied and replaced a second time. I have a check up scheduled with my LBS. Which is a specialized store now since they bought out the old owners. Makes warranty work super quick.
Hi, thank you for your comments, think your spot. It's very difficult to point the cause at any one area, personally I think its bearings water ingress myself mainly. some people not all are not taking enough care when cleaning or using jetwash. the problem is that we cant tell if its normal water ingress from bad weather or is it jetwash. the pedal motion combine with the torque and the clatter they take im not suprised that they wear quickly. I dont think there is an easy answer, but they need more r&d. my gut feeling is that we/they expect too much from such a small unit, loads of forces going through small bearings
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic couldn't agree more with ya. This is just the sad fact for us eBike owners. Just ride out your warranties and off load once they won't cover the bikes anymore. I get another 2 years of coverage with my current Levo luckily.
My Bosch Gen 3 CX performance line had was original and had 2,000k when I bought it. Three and a half years later It now has 11,500k on the clock no issues at all. Here in Australia if you're looking for a second hand eMTB with a Bosch they like hen's teeth. However bikes with Shimano motors are comon and many state they have a recent new motor replaced under warranty. For some reason you also see a fair representation of Specialized up for sale only problem with the Specialized is the used bike prices are higher than a new Trek Rail 5 & 7. A tip for buying for not buy a dud bike. Don't buy it if the owner says they wash it after every ride or meticulously cleaned and maintained, red flags (pressure washer used). Another tip is if the say it has been regually servieced by the shop, they haven't from the bikes i've inspected.
Howdo davey boy, hope ya doin OK? Tell me is there a difference in the bosch motor from mine a 2021 to today's 2024 because mine has been faultless and nearly 3000..miles
Hi, thanks were all good here. if its a gen 2 they are pretty much bullet proof with the exception of driveside bearing wear which is easily rectified. Bigger bearings, solid inside
My active line from 2016 died after 12,000 km. Fried the Intuvia removable display. Bought a new display and fried that too, so there must've been some crossing wires or short circuiting going on. Now just yesterday I've started getting the dreaded 500 error on my Perfomance line from 2021, hoping Bosch will replace it for me through my local shop.
The problem is making them too hard to service and not supplying spare parts. Supplying spare parts is a legal requirement for motor vehicles and a lot of these bikes cost as much money as a top end motorbike.
I’ve got a recurring problem with my Bosch motor. Orbea wild 2023. Keeps going into limp mode after doing a trail with jumps 1 after the other. Error code 511001 drive unit error - acceleration sensor. The shop I bought it from had already fitted a brand new motor for this issue and it hasn’t resolved it! It’s done it since the day I picked it up. That sensor is apparently part of the motor (and I watched a video of yours to confirm I believe it is) so hence why they fitted a motor but error still persists. For 95% off my riding the bike is fine just when I do a jumpy trail but fine on the rough stuff?? They are now on about putting a new battery in the bike? Have you come across this error before ? Thanks Ryan
@@robvanduren761 I basically only ride the Levo now , sold my stump jumper and hard tail Scott , do an occasional short road bike ride but fully addicted to the e bike now :)
I have seen people pressure washing their motor and getting it right in to the the area round the crank which in my opinion is not a very clever thing to do, it doesn’t matter how good the manufactures seal something a pressure washer will blow passed seals
Aye up, no issue with my yamaha px 2 but two batteries and two dropper posts later i am not amused, and that in 1 year of riding.The smaller the motors the problems with bearings and seals get more damaged .
Bosch has an overwhelming share of the E-MTB motor market. It is strange that Shimano motors have so many repairs. Is Shimano several times more likely to break than Bosch?
Ive bought a bunch of second hand bafang hub motors over the years, some of which have been 10 years old and with 10 of thousands of kms. Still working perfectly and it was easy to get batteries and parts if necessary. A bosch would be scrap by that point, which is unforgiveable considering the price. Also from a very wet country, so that isnt a factor.
from Australia. winter riding is best, summer riding is like riding through talcum powder! it gums up everything! chains gears bearings, horrible stuff. im running a cyc gen 3 stealth at 2000w max its amazing and modular. so if something brakes i can just replace the part. as in controller gearbox motor wiring loom and driving mech. each part is reasonable with price. my only bitch is postage costs and time.
Hey Buddy !! Have you had any trouble with the yamaha motor?? Am in Perth Oz the bikes never seen rain only time it gets wet is when its being washed. Had it 4 years and done 3000k motors been bomb proof up to now
Hi, Thanks for your comments, at the minute Yamaha dont seem to suffer the same issues, bearings wear out like a normal bearing would but have not seen many electrical faults
An international standard for mounting motors to frames shouldn’t brand/model specific. Once the motor is discontinued it shouldn’t then become landfill. Circuit boards shouldn’t require de-soldering to replace bearings and all internal gearing should be wear and tear items that are replaceable. As a complete bike they certainly know how to charge ! Finally battery packs, why aren’t they repairable, say return to Shimano for refurbishment, mine had an internal fault after very few charges and I had to replace with new, unable to find anywhere to repair or recycle the faulty item due to the nature of the BMS. I sold the bike in the end and gave the new owner the old battery as well otherwise I’m not sure what I’d have done with it.
That's bad design, isn't it. The TQ motor is IP67 and Specialized non SL (1.2, 1.2 E, 1.3, 2.1) are IP67. I'm riding the Rail 7 and no issues, but I would not buy again an eMTB less than the IP67 rating in the motor. I need to wash my bike a lot by using a power washer, but I need to be very careful in the cranks area. BTW I wash my bikes using the Bosch Fontus battery powered washer. There is a "shower" mode, which I use mostly. Power washer mode I use for the tires if needed. In Finland, the winter weather is killer. The snow piles up in the cranks area, and we all know the story end :-)
My bosch gen 4 charger failed,its only 8 months old,took to LBS they proved it faulty,after 4 weeks,im still waiting for a replacement! I had to buy one to get me through Shocking customer service from bosch😡
That's the fault of your LBS not Bosch. I bought my bike from Freeborn, when the Bosch motor failed (flooded) they sent me a box to pack the bike into by next day delivery, collected the following day and the bike was returned to me with a brand new motor within one week. A couple of years later I had another issue (torque sensor fail) 4 days before the end of the warranty, and again Freeborn had it back to me 8 days after I sent the bike back to them. Everything covered, including shipping. We always here how we shouldn't buy bikes mail order and support LBS, but my experience of buying mail order from Freeborn has been wonderful!
My right crank off my bosch Performance line cx (2017) was wobbling so I took it off to check for damage. A whole part of the bottom bracket axle where the crank should attach to broke off... Trying to figure out what parts I need to fix it. It appears to be a bit more complex than a road bike however 😢
I use the cheapest 48v hub motors , no problems with 5 conversions and combined well over 20000m all weather riding with hills .Diy is the way to go . Everyone i know on `an ebike `has had expensive problems and they end up being unused . There is no justification for the non standardization and prices of ebikes imo . Its just pandering to those with to much money like everything .
My ebike has 18k km never clean it with pressure cleaning. Scrub with brush and truck wash rain off with hose blow out with full tank compressed air asap. Oil chain every 50 odd km ride. Take to bike shop 2 times per year to get circuit board and battery checked. I am in OZ so relatively dry warm climate.
There is another point that makes me crazy about full suspension MtB frames is that they use (99% of them) ball bearings on the suspension joints : but a roller bearing is made for rotating full, not for such low amplitude high load stress ! The best technical solution used in the industry in that case is to use bushings on the joints : Self lubricating bushings types (steel-bronze-polymer composite material) with if possible a greasing plug to insure longevity and low friction over time. Greasing should be done periodically (eg. every xx hours of ride) . So yes, it will weight a few grams more and will need a minimal maintenance than a "cartridge roller bearing" solution, but such bushing will last forever if well maintained.... but who cares on an eMtB ?
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic i had a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR that was killing suspension bearings : I started to change them after 2 years , then once a year, then once every 6 months, then every 2-3 months , then i got tired of it and i scrapped the frame altogether. Those bearings are tiny, fragile and poorly fitted into a poorly machined frame that do not follow the recommended bearing manufacturer tolerances (OD, ID, co-axiality, squareness etc ...) and that impacts the durability of those fragile bearings a lot. Even more than water ingress ! At then end after replacing those bearings a dozen times, you do what is called an "ovalization" of the housing that induces a play/micro-gap that kills even quicker the new bearings. Only solution would be to machine new housings (larger Diam), shafts (larger Diam) and put a good quality bushing into it (Glycodur style). I know guys that did it successfully. But you need a lathe and a milling machine for that operation .....
I think a lot os to do with de-restriction too! I did it on my old Yamaha bike where after 500 miles I had to get a new motor. I’m reluctant to do it on my new Bosch Cube especially as it’s a Smart System which is easier at detecting devices or magnet tampering.
Think about this you can easily pedal past the 15.5 mph limit especially downhill. The motor,internal gears, and bearings will be spinning at this speed doesn't matter if the motor is adding power. Once an electric motor is up and spinning it's current draw drops as the load is lower a standing start uphill in a high power mode will place much more stress on the motor as it will internal gearing. IMO a chipped bike set at a sensible 20mph is not going to suffer any significant adverse wear. In my experience of 3 years and 16000 miles of commuting on an ebike the weather was my worst enemy and required constant carefully cleaning of my bikes a bit of well placed grease around the outer crank bearings helps but it has to be regularly cleaned off and replaced. Had one Bosch motor replaced fussy free on warranty after going submarine through a puddle and so far had no problems after 2 years with my Yamaha PWX equipped Giant.
@@mrstevepace I think this is why the Volspeed chip works better than most others as it can limit to any speed where as say Speedbox is unlimited and those cause motors such as Bosch into limp mode. 5 times and you have to go to a Bosch dealer and they’ll refuse to fix it free. I was lucky with my Yamaha which I did the magnet trick for which also gives unlimited assist there was no obvious or traceability so they swapped the motor for me. So many posts on FB groups of motors stop working after using chips or magnet hacks
@@CaptnSpaulding I agree re Bosch they can detect chipping and lock you out if you set speed to high. I did have a Volspeed fitted to my bike removed it B4 taking to workshop and no adverse data detected by the Bosch service software. I did sweat for a bit mind until the tech confirmed I'd be getting a new motor under warranty
My ebike worked and now the E010 code & still in the shop. The motors should be lifetime warranty for these codes when we haven't done anything to cause the issues
No Yamaha 😂 currently running pwx3 haibike nduro 6 3000 miles in a year never misses a beat and kno of 3 others with Yamaha motors 2 of them 17 month old no problemos been thru rivers to puddles mountains to mole hills ABSOLUTELY mint motors if carlsberg done ebike motors they would build a Yamaha SIMPLES 🧐
I can second that with Yamaha, I was early into E-bikes when I bought a Haibike Sduro AllMnt RC fitted with a Yamaha motor and Fox suspension all the way back in Feb 2015. I bought it because it had 2 crank chainrings with a 10 speed cassette and everything is still working as it should.
My Specialized ebike motor (Brose) starting failing within 200km's. It started exhibiting the dreaded sprag bearing clicking sound at take off. SPL was happy to replace the motor. After which I retuned it to SPL for a full refund.
hello, i have a canyon pathlite on 2021 with bosch performance speed gen 4(9630km) dual battery 1000w in total and i dont have errore, i use this bike for food delivery
Here's my tale of woe experience to date with a Kalkhoff Image 5 with a Shimano Steps e6100 system. 02/2020 took delivery of bike; 06/2020 E010 - motor failure (
The motors are as waterproof as a paper bag. The manufacturers could easily make them waterproof, mtbs are supposed to ride in water. I think it's not in your interest to make them waterproof. Bosch did not replace my motor when it failed after 14 months. No support or help if they discover water damage!
Bike manufactures would be better off upgrading bearings etc rather that just replacing a motor surely? Oh and spesh offer rider assist on non warrenty parts 👌
Stopping water ingress should be manufacturers number one priority. MTBs spend their life in mud and crud here in the UK. They're not fit for purpose if they can't handle it 😔. Could you imagine a motocross bike that let crud in the engine, the company wouldn't last long. And the maddening thing is.. some e-bikes cost the same price if not more. 🤯
Thanks for your comment, the ebike downside is that it has 2 crank arms that take so much punishment that the bearings soo loose their resistance to water
My Nikolai eBoxx 2020 Bosch Gen 4 motor has almost 10 000 km and i can hear a noisy "click" metallic sound when i push to the left pedal reaching the 6h position. Nothing with the right pedal pressure. If i stop pedaling (pushing on the left pedal) then i hear a second click right after the first one as if there is some kind of inertia to the click cause.... I explored all other potential root causes and failed to find any one. The frame bearings are super strong (vs other mass produced brands i know) and feel OK on the fingers and not cracking when jumping on the bike under whatever position. Pedals are 100% OK also. I tightened the motor fixation bolts (except the brackets hollowed Torx 25 that i wait for the special tool for it). The noise comes clearly from the motor area. Shall i ask for a motor replacement out of the 2 Years warranty ? (cost about 800€ ...). Or shall i continue to use the bike until the motor fails completely ?
no first hand experience, but it strikes me odd that people seem to think 10 k miles is a huge amount for an ebike motor. is that really the case? 10 k in a regular bicycle is only getting started! that's two years worth of riding for someone who rides 10 hours a week.
Hi, what a great question, with the exception of Specialized warranties are not transferable i'm afraid, I personally try to help everyone if I can and its not outside the scope of the sales conditions
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic I understand you being a honest person trying to help everyone but I was surprised when I found out that Bosch doesn't honor their warranty when bike is not owned by the original buyer! How is that legal at all? I bought two Bosch bikes from the original buyer, both with very low millage. I have all of the documents and when I asked the original seller for software update I found out it is not free service as I'm not the one who bought bikes from them. Despite both bikes being less than a year old! Why bother paying premium for Bosch if they treat their customers like that?
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comments, a replacement under warranty, would mean that the warranty period still starts from the purchase date. 100% discount would mean that the new motor comes with 2 years warranty.
My friend (Quebec, Canada) has a low volume shop who sell two known mountain bike brands and he is complaining about how the very high end motors on expensive bikes are as poorly sealed as a 2k Amazon ebice... That's not reassuring to me 😅
Bosch and Shimano are way over rated ! get yourself a real mid drive conversion kit with a bafang 750 watt motor and a 20ah battery for around $1,300, we have two of them and they both have done over 5,000 km each and the only thing i had to replace was the pawl clutch which only cost me $20, i watched 2 videos on youtube on how to do it myself and in 1 hour i had it fixed and if you want to know the secret on how to keep water out of your electrics, motor and everywhere else you dont want water to get into ? use Lanolin spray it over the motor, we live in the tropics and in the wet season it rains more than england could ever dream about and we have no problems spray and ride !
The parts for the motors should be readily available for the customers to buy,after the warranty is up,so say if a circuit board goes it can be replaced
One hunder percent agree mate,
@@johnpeacock7985 it’s crazy,such a waste of motors
No way. I agree dealers should but customers no. From what i see on non ebikes and basic parts, i dont want customers getting into these things and then brining it for me to fix
If your getting paid to do the job , how is it any skin off your nose . @@lozzaridesemtb
@@lozzaridesemtbyes because ur Mr. Perfect
No one else needs parts... selfish ####
I expect that due to our muddy conditions we wash our bikes much more than drier climates, and I often see people too willing to use pressure washers on their bikes. I imagine this the biggest cause of broken motors / electronics, but also of bearings on linkages and cranks on regular mtbs. "Sealed" bearings aren't going to cope with water under pressure.
Thanks for watching, your comments are spot on.
I've seen the same problem on a regular bike on another channel, the owner was pressure washing their bike after each use, and washed all the lubrication our of the crankset, causing extra wear and tear.
NEVER wash an ebike with a pressure washer.
Always washed my cube with just hose pressure, and never spray directly at the crank/drive motor
Me and My bike shower together. That way both of us stay clean and healthy, come rain or shine…
Sealing a rotating shaft against muddy water is a race against time : A seal will always end up failing vs mud at some point. Even the best seals used on HD and recreational off road machines.
What the MtB motor makers need to implement is an easy user changeable seal for each of their shaft interfaces.
And clearly ask for a yearly exchange of all the motor seals or every 150h (example) use under real MtB conditions. The same way we change our forks upper seals and oil every year or 100h use.... target is to keep the motor going for at least 20 or 30 000 km before any heavy maintenance inside it and then be able to do that maintenance with spare parts available and clear repair manual free to download to anybody.
This is a great solution. Units are sealed but dealers can do very little preventative maintenance to ensure customers bikes dont break. I have one that’s done 2500km at the moment and his bearings are shot and luckily its within warranty but this could have been prevented
Agree.
May the sun shine on you, dear dave. Great to see you again.
Same to you!
Never had an electrical fault on any of my E-bikes hardware or software 2020+
All Bosch motors.
I maintain and look after my own, as best as possible.
I’d only have a Brose or Bosch motor.
Just celebrated 2 years ownership of a Trek Powerfly ... 10.5k km and no problems with the Bosch motor
Love your channel, your accent, your skiles and knowledge, bit of set humor also appreciated, lovely all in all. I’ll be buying my first e-bike this year, Tenways Ago X. It has a Bafang motor, you’ve reviewed one, really looking forward to it! 😊
Regarding wear and tear and ultimately faulty motors and environment. Yes wet is probably not good, but salty air from the sea might be a factor too. Ask the dutchies I recommend! I am also one though I live in Germany now.
Keep it up, lovely videos!
Thank you so much, its a pleasure. hope you are well and getting better weather than us.
Chuffinell Dave! 😅 Wish it was sunny but we've got to face facts - the UK weather is the worst! Off to Bike Park Wales for the weekend - they've had 13 named storms in the space of one year - a record for them! Great video as always 👍
Hi sorry for the late reply, hope you had a good day at bike park wales
I love my electric Brompton but I’m on my 4th motor. I suspect it’s mainly because of water ingress likely made worse because with the 16 inch wheels, the motor and components are closer to the ground than a larger wheeled bike. I do necessarily ride it on country lanes but I do try and avoid puddles but it isn’t always possible. Thanks for your film.
A quality bike shop is valuable when things go wrong and just as valuable if you want your machine running sweetly. Like you say, It is what we do everyday.
Keep up the good work Dave.
Thank you.
Nice one Dave, this is indeed welcome news. An issue for us with e motor failure, wether in warranty or not, is the time with no bike whilst it is remedied. As riding bikes is our main thing I was keen to buy the wife a spare motor should hers conk whilst on a MTB holiday. This proved costly and it wasn't definite I would just be able to bolt the thing on myself in an emergency without being linked to some kind of software. Hopefully the economies of scale will eventually bring prices of motors down to a price that having a spare is a feasible thing to do. Keep us informed Dave, you're the man👍
Aren't modern motors paired to bike display/control panel in some way that "diy mechanics" can't just swap new motor? I think Bosch does that drm thing.
@@PerSkeles maybe Dave can answer this one. It would be dead handy for some people 👍
@@PerSkeles That is usually the case. Everything is proprietary. If you do any little thing yourself, you void the warranty and likely brick the motor controller. You will be looking at a new bike.
Currently hav my bike in a shop getting a new motor (bosch) nice to know bosch will help after warranty
My bbh bafang with more than 2k miles on it over 2.5 years never needed replacement of one single piece. Not to mention the availability of bafang parts everywhere.
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comments
I have the BBS92, I have us this in all weather's. The controller needs replaced and bearings get done yearly. It's one of the best mid drive motors available and you can be get the battery recelled
2000 miles (3000 km) is peanuts. Target is 20 to 30 000km durability for a motor !
I’m a year in to e-bike riding and after 1200miles of uk riding and a lot of mud this winter the motor is throwing up error codes and not working. It’s in with the dealer I bought it from this week so let’s see what the Bosch warranty is like. I was hoping for better reliability.
I think water damage is a big factor of engine failures nowadays.. but i also think many engines are "bricked" because of the improved anti tamper tech in them. Anyway another great video.. always nice to hear the LBS perspective on things!
Thanks for your comments.
Does the anti tamper tech mean you can't strip the motor down yourself?
@@rouxenophobe Nope, people try to make these motors go faster. When the system detects tampering with the speed sensors it will warn and shut down. "Go see your dealer"
@@stevendegreef93 Thank. Wow, that's crazy that you can't service them yourself!
I have owned a hard tail 7 from 2015 with the Yamaha motor. It’s washed by hand and the power washer remains in the garage. My LBS has done the servicing with the usual consumable items replaced and I’ve had the battery replaced after 5 years. Apart from that it hasn’t missed a beat, so I can’t complain.
The weather has been shocking, but these motors really do need more than just a sealed bearing on the cranks - at least put a proper seal in rather than relying on the bearing. They should also be made more easily servicable so the bearings can be swapped out without pulling the whole thing apart!
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comments
I wish there was a twin brother of your out in California my local e-bike shop guy is a jerk off but luckily for me the Bosch motor is so easy to work on I have 18000 miles on my motor and I’ve just replaced my bearings for the second time just changed them out for a third time just love having fresh bearings after a rough winter I’ve broken the crank shaft twice I go more through cassettes and chains the most. Oh I’m riding a hibike 3.0 gen two motor 170 travel in the front 170 in the back on 27.5 + tires thanks for all the info you put out.
Thanks for watching and your comments, please consider a super thanks if you found this video helpful, it helps to support further videos. thanks again
I agree when I see no waterproofing, and that includes waterproofing the controller bds and waterproofing connectors and over designing bearings for pedal strike.
Friends Shimano two months out of warranty replaced for free. Mine still under warranty, no faults yet other than a battery related fault which I didn't even notice at the time only noticed it a month or two later when I connected etube app
I've clocked up over 10,000km on my Bosch powered e-bike so far and it still rides like the very first day I bought it. I ride between 50-60km everyday of the week on my commute and sometimes if the weather is good I will do over 100km on Sundays. The motor is mounted on a Trek commuter bike.
I must mention that I never ride my e-bike if it's raining, so the motor has never experienced water, only the occasional puddle or wet spot from sprinklers etc.
no water, no mud contact is key to the longevity of Bosch motors... but an MtB MUST survive mud contact as long as possible and be easily maintainable (change the seals by users). That is not yet the case ....
thank you
Actually you are absolutly correct, I have an ebike and within the first two years of owning it the motor started to play up, i'm not a person to throw things aways so I pulled it apart checked the motor it was full or rust, and not only that it was full of rust the rust was making it grind and lock.
But the up side to this is, if you catch it early enough, you can clean the motor off with a stiff brush get rid of the rust, recoat the windings and make sure the bearings are good re-pack the bearings and the motor will be good to go again so long as nothing has broken, hence why I said if you catch it early enough.
So yep the motors are failing because of the water.
So to seal the motor to stop the water getting in I simply got some silicon rubber ie mastic and spread it around the tiny tap in the motor.
It worked a treat, no more water getting into the motor job done, last time I took the motor apart because the bearings were making some noise the motor was clean no rust, but the bearings needed re-packing due to dust.
So perhaps they leave a small gap to allow dust to escape, but I would rather clean it out with a brush every so many thousand miles and my little ebike has done approximately 8 thousand miles judging on the milage I used to do on my motorcycle and I'm doing exactly the same on my little ebike that cost me less than 800 pounds all in with all the changes I did to it.
Hi, thanks for watching and your comments
I’ve been riding my EP8 for about 6 months with almost 2000km and it’s mostly been good. Living in kind of a similar climate in BC, Canada, wet winters. I had errors at first which seemed to all get resolved with a software update which was nice. Recently though I have noticed a steady audible knocking sound which I can also feel on the handlebars when putting a lot of force in the pedals when going up the mountains. Not sure if something is starting to fail in the motor but I suppose time will tell. If it does I hope it happens before the 2 year warranty.
Hi thanks for your great comments
My old Bosch gen2 absolutely refuses to die. 12000km, 6yr and one accidental complete submerging it will not stop. New CX gen4 2,500+km running smooth as silk.
Still using a 15 year old direct drive hub motor with no problems after many tens of thousands of kms.
I purchased a Bafang M510 motor to go into a project used Vitus E Mythique. Found the socket board to be water damaged due to water ingress and bearings almost seizing. The drive side seal seams to be poor quality so Iv replaced this and the socket board hopefully this will fix it but the wet weather does kill some poor build quality motors the QC isn’t so good on some.
I bought a perfectly rideable and in good condition saracen tuff trax from 1988 the other day, there are many 80's 90's and 2000 plus bikes still working fine and for sale, you won't be seeing any modern ebikes not in landfill 10 years after manufacture, plus the electronic waste of batteries, circuit boards etc, now imagine that waste on a global scale......
Great video, always love your videos and i do like ebikes, but the cost to the environment is huge
The batteries are recyclable, just like the frame and everything except the rubber and plastic parts. I will agree it probably will go quicker than Amish bikes, It doesn't mean It can't be recycled
Yesterday I bought a 1999 Marin Palisades trail large 20" in near mint condition, Facebook Market Place in Chesterfield for 😅 get ready 😮 £30 😅 ,she's absolutely BEAUTIFUL 😍 ,I'm 55 and always been a Marin Man 🇬🇧🤠🤟🇺🇸💯
@@ianmangham4570 there is a new team marin from 1990 freshly unboxed and never used or ridden on ebay at the moment, it's the black and green version
And about time you did a post Dave K you’re been mist lad. Ill call in next time I’m passing. I watch a CZcams channel from ebike motor centre and he says the same most motors are water damaged but he’s putting a upgraded seal on he’s repairs
Had my Bosch gen 4 motor repaired there, fantastic service and yep, their proprietary seals designed for the job prevent water ingress. E-bike motor repair centre, Sandle Heath, Hampshire. Genuine champs at diagnostics and actually helping to develop improvements in motor design and water ingress prevention. 👍🏻🏴
I have a Focus Sam2 with only 2700km on it. I’m in Brisbane Australia so the weather is not an issue down here. My bike has been diagnosed with a short circuit issue rendering it caput, new motor time for me. Bosch won’t help out at all as I am the second owner. Bike had done 250km when I bought it. It is a 21 model.
One very very unhappy owner. It’s disgusting, original owner or not, this motor is just not fit for purpose.
My Haibike Bosch Gen 3 motor was replaced after just over 2 years, but Bosch was kind enough to do it as a warranty fix. The 2021 bike has quite large vents underneath the motor and I can't help thinking this is asking for trouble. I never use a hose as I'm paranoid this will add to the risk.
Bosch motor, 18 months no issues. Key is don't overcharge ie 100% or let it drop below 20% too often, use regularly and only charge right before you use it.
In NZ (Sth Island)...it's as dry as a pommies towel😂
😃😃😃😃😃
thats a good saying
Given the foreseeable duty of the Brose motor on my Levo, it is idiotic that water can get into electrical connectors and along shafts, into the bearings. I’ve worked in the power industry where we use submersible pumps that run for years with minimal maintenance in sea-water and chemically tainted water. What maintenance is straightforward with care. The methods for keeping water out are well known except in the bike industry where you get charged £750 for a non watertight motor for a mountain bike. I rode motorcycle trials for years, engine regularly submerged crossing rivers without a drop of water getting into the engine, gearbox or electrics. For heaven’s sake, the bloody Brose motor relies on a dob of grease and a 50p o-ring to seal the concentric shafts on the right side. Designed by a chump! All the connectors were going green as the quality is rubbish and no silicon grease had been applied. Modern cars have submersible connectors so what’s the excuse? Again, designed by someone who is clueless about operating conditions!
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comments
The way I look at it: It's just another thing on your bike that will eventually fail. There are enough things on my bike that fail and I don't need another.
My Kalkhoff lasted 15 dry miles impulse 2.0 motors brand new in 2017 and no dealer support near me so left to rust in my garage since the lurgy.. time to list it on an auction site
thanks for watching and you comments
Thanks for your information, can you comment on the number/ percentage of brose gen 3 motor fails please?
Early bosch motors are quite good
I don’t believe it’s not possible to make the motors more waterproof.
It’s almost as if the manufacturers don’t want to put the effort in.
Good to see you back 😊
Thank you
they maybe employ young rooky engineers with zero experience on the sealing field .... 😞
Cracking video as always Dave cheers. Is there any motors out there rated to IP68 yet? I know some batteries are but they are not getting submerged. Also would help if they used marine grade connectors instead of automotive grade
Hi, hope you are well. It's very difficult to point the cause at any one area, personally I think its bearings water ingress myself mainly. some people not all are not taking enough care when cleaning or using jetwash. the problem is that we cant tell if its normal water ingress from bad weather or is it jetwash. the pedal motion combine with the torque and the clatter they take im not suprised that they wear quickly. I dont think there is an easy answer, but they need more r&d
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic yeah like you say if the issue is mainly wet weather countries only it won’t justify r&d costs, would be good if they could do an IP68 version though as that means you can jet wash them. Otherwise design them so bearing/torque sensor can be easily replaced. I’ve had 2 new motors on my Trek rail which I,m still convinced is to do with the RIB design and battery connector having no allowance for flex in frame. Also got the new Levo SL and already had a motor replaced in that too due to rough bearing causing issue with torque sensor, and no I don’t use jet wash, I guess it’s just Peak District wrecking paste 😂
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic there is a video by Paul Kent, a long distance skateboarder who uses marine grease in his bearings for waterproofing them. I tried his idea this last winter in my skateboard with great success. this is relevant because those bearings are notorious for not being waterproof at all to the point that most people would never ride their board in the rain. I think this idea might translate quite well to mid-drive motor bearings. It's not going to be recommended by any sensible person because the grease just is a bit thick, but I'm telling you it's fine. It's such a sticky grease if you get it on your fingers you'll have a long session of washing up after. There's phil wood's waterproof grease, I couldn't find the stuff locally so used Liqui-Moly "Bootsfett". good stuff
Ebikes are awesome, the cost of ownership is too high when you factor in inevitable failed motor/batteries. The industry needs to have a good look at sustainability and servicing rather than replace.
Thanks for watching, the problem is that the new motors are so complex that not many will work on them and no parts
How many mid motors have PCB’s that are coated to prevent moisture damage?
Ive had 4 ep8s in 2.5 years. All under warranty.
good news
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic yeh shimano in all fairness have been great, the only gripe I have is they are a little slow to respond, but you get there in the end.
Ay up Dave, I’ve a theory that pedal strikes cause the damage and wear to bearings and therefore seals which in turn allows water ingress
Having said that my last motor expired after 450 miles ( about 5 months ) when they’ve previously lasted 1500-2000 miles
Loving your content, keep up the good work 👍🏻
terrible durability . means a failed design from the motor brand. what motor brand-model was it ?
Hi Paul, thats true, theres is such a lot of force of bearings from cranks. Thanks for your comment, Dave
It's not just the motors. I've seen condensation in the screen on the handlebar mounted display on my Shimano after rain. It still works though !
Hi, Thanks for your comments
I have an ebike with a Yamaha motor any idea of the support they provide? I love watching your videos . It's a pity you are so far from where I live as if I have a problem with my bike I know I would get it sorted properly.
Hi, thanks for watching, not really because we never get any back?
The only way to keep the moisture out is to provide positive air flow from a 25mm mini computer fan that draws air from inside the frame near the steering head. It should run constantly when bike is turned on and switchable when you are washing it or suspect it needs drying out. A bag of moisture absorbing crystal would also help inside the case. E=Mtb²
I cannot believe in this day and age that a motor cannot be designed to keep muck and water out.
@@JohnnyMotel99 You are right but some motors Brose for example don't have any seals around the cranks. A problem is that a cooling hollow object will suck in any moisture because a vacuum is created as it cools. That's why a minute amount of positive air pressure from inside a breathing motor will work to keep the motor dry and clean .
But what would I know 🤔 E=Mtb²
easily serviceable seals every 150h (or whatever) are THE solution
Hi Dave, I think that part of the decision making when buying an ebike is what the back-up will be in the (inevitable) event something goes wrong. It’s all well and good having a awesome suspension and parts package, but if you have to wait ages for a warranty repair or a spare part for a peculiar motor, thinking less mainstream such as TQ or Fazua, then how good the bike rides is irrelevant if it’s gathering dust. It’d be interesting to hear how many of each of the motors you get through the shop, and the proportion that can be repaired or are just replaced?
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comments, to answer your question, those which display E010 are all replaced
Bosch performance line gen 3, 65nm, 2200 miles in all weather on hilly 5-10 mile daily commute, never pressure washed, zero mechanical problems but it is noticeably noisier than when new. I feel sure that the bearings just need greasing up rather than replacing, either way this should be an easy option as it is basic maintenance. Bosch need to address this imo.
Hi, thanks for watching.
I run 6 eBikes, an early Bosch with 10,000 dealer serviced miles, another self build hardtail two 2017 Yamaha Haibikes and an upright. My favourite is a 2018 Merida 160 full sus but has had the worst motor history - all replaced foc by Shimano through my dealer. My issue is with the new Bosch smart motor "walk assist" which is pants - why is this. At age 70, for Glentress Black Run and the like, I need an effective walk assist for 200 yard + climbs when I cannot manage to remount say on the Hardknott Pass or the Bealach, but especially on long cross country trails in Torridon. The Trek Powerfly has excellent walk assist but the Rail 9.8 has not - is there any way to restore this to the haul ass performance of the Powerfly walk assist mode? Love your channel!
Thank you
Being a mountain biker since I was a nipper, and a keen motorcyclist I simply can't see the appeal of investing lots of money into something that won't last long term, That said I love the concept of e bikes, and probably will buy one at the right price eventually
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comment
have had no problems with mine over 4 years 23,000km. Creo SL. 1.1
So. I do a lot of riding on my eBike. My frist Specialized Levo motor lasted about 2500 miles and this second one is at about 4800 miles. Maybe 5K at this point. The second one seems to be having a failing bearing on the crank. It squeaks now when I am peddling. Which is just annoying and hasn't caused any peddling issues. The first motor had a terrible failure after I had ridden through a creek. Didn't realize it was deep enough to get to the crank area. But alas it was warrantied anyways. But I put a lot of miles on my motors. And I would say that the Brose does put up with a fair amount of beating. I just wish they did a better job of sealing the crank area. Because I was careful with this motor and I still seem to be having a failure point that will have to be warrantied and replaced a second time. I have a check up scheduled with my LBS. Which is a specialized store now since they bought out the old owners. Makes warranty work super quick.
Hi, thank you for your comments, think your spot. It's very difficult to point the cause at any one area, personally I think its bearings water ingress myself mainly. some people not all are not taking enough care when cleaning or using jetwash. the problem is that we cant tell if its normal water ingress from bad weather or is it jetwash. the pedal motion combine with the torque and the clatter they take im not suprised that they wear quickly. I dont think there is an easy answer, but they need more r&d. my gut feeling is that we/they expect too much from such a small unit, loads of forces going through small bearings
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic couldn't agree more with ya. This is just the sad fact for us eBike owners. Just ride out your warranties and off load once they won't cover the bikes anymore. I get another 2 years of coverage with my current Levo luckily.
My Bosch Gen 3 CX performance line had was original and had 2,000k when I bought it. Three and a half years later It now has 11,500k on the clock no issues at all. Here in Australia if you're looking for a second hand eMTB with a Bosch they like hen's teeth. However bikes with Shimano motors are comon and many state they have a recent new motor replaced under warranty. For some reason you also see a fair representation of Specialized up for sale only problem with the Specialized is the used bike prices are higher than a new Trek Rail 5 & 7.
A tip for buying for not buy a dud bike. Don't buy it if the owner says they wash it after every ride or meticulously cleaned and maintained, red flags (pressure washer used). Another tip is if the say it has been regually servieced by the shop, they haven't from the bikes i've inspected.
Great comments, thank you
Howdo davey boy, hope ya doin OK? Tell me is there a difference in the bosch motor from mine a 2021 to today's 2024 because mine has been faultless and nearly 3000..miles
Hi, thanks were all good here. if its a gen 2 they are pretty much bullet proof with the exception of driveside bearing wear which is easily rectified. Bigger bearings, solid inside
My active line from 2016 died after 12,000 km. Fried the Intuvia removable display. Bought a new display and fried that too, so there must've been some crossing wires or short circuiting going on. Now just yesterday I've started getting the dreaded 500 error on my Perfomance line from 2021, hoping Bosch will replace it for me through my local shop.
Im sure they will do their best
The problem is making them too hard to service and not supplying spare parts. Supplying spare parts is a legal requirement for motor vehicles and a lot of these bikes cost as much money as a top end motorbike.
I’ve got a recurring problem with my Bosch motor. Orbea wild 2023. Keeps going into limp mode after doing a trail with jumps 1 after the other. Error code 511001 drive unit error - acceleration sensor. The shop I bought it from had already fitted a brand new motor for this issue and it hasn’t resolved it! It’s done it since the day I picked it up. That sensor is apparently part of the motor (and I watched a video of yours to confirm I believe it is) so hence why they fitted a motor but error still persists. For 95% off my riding the bike is fine just when I do a jumpy trail but fine on the rough stuff?? They are now on about putting a new battery in the bike? Have you come across this error before ?
Thanks
Ryan
Hi Ryan sorry for the delay in my reply, yes we have quite common
Yorkshire & Sun ? Never going to happen 🙂
Hi, Im beginning to think so
Try Lancashire or the Lakes haha😂😂
2020 turbo levo approching 20000 k , all good , use high RPM which helps keep the temps lower and no deliberate riding in the rain.
Dam you are a pedaling machine. My 2019 ebike has only 2000km on it.
@@robvanduren761 I basically only ride the Levo now , sold my stump jumper and hard tail Scott , do an occasional short road bike ride but fully addicted to the e bike now :)
I have seen people pressure washing their motor and getting it right in to the the area round the crank which in my opinion is not a very clever thing to do, it doesn’t matter how good the manufactures seal something a pressure washer will blow passed seals
Hi, very true.
Aye up, no issue with my yamaha px 2 but two batteries and two dropper posts later i am not amused, and that in 1 year of riding.The smaller the motors the problems with bearings and seals get more damaged .
What bike do you have with the px2?
@@chuck1622 I have the Raymon full ray (german brand) .
No problem with my Bafang motor !
me neither.
Bosch has an overwhelming share of the E-MTB motor market.
It is strange that Shimano motors have so many repairs.
Is Shimano several times more likely to break than Bosch?
Hi, intersting comment
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic Avoiding the direct question means yes Shimano is having more problems
I read somewhere that Bosch CX are rated for 50K kms. Mine is on 5K kms at the moment and still perfect. Touch wood.
Ive bought a bunch of second hand bafang hub motors over the years, some of which have been 10 years old and with 10 of thousands of kms. Still working perfectly and it was easy to get batteries and parts if necessary. A bosch would be scrap by that point, which is unforgiveable considering the price. Also from a very wet country, so that isnt a factor.
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comment, I like bafang mid drive motors, M620 is a great motor
from Australia. winter riding is best, summer riding is like riding through talcum powder! it gums up everything! chains gears bearings, horrible stuff. im running a cyc gen 3 stealth at 2000w max its amazing and modular. so if something brakes i can just replace the part. as in controller gearbox motor wiring loom and driving mech. each part is reasonable with price. my only bitch is postage costs and time.
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comments, the cyc gen 3 looks like a good system although ive never had the chance to look at one.
Hey Buddy !! Have you had any trouble with the yamaha motor?? Am in Perth Oz the bikes never seen rain only time it gets wet is when its being washed. Had it 4 years and done 3000k motors been bomb proof up to now
Hi, Thanks for your comments, at the minute Yamaha dont seem to suffer the same issues, bearings wear out like a normal bearing would but have not seen many electrical faults
An international standard for mounting motors to frames shouldn’t brand/model specific. Once the motor is discontinued it shouldn’t then become landfill.
Circuit boards shouldn’t require de-soldering to replace bearings and all internal gearing should be wear and tear items that are replaceable.
As a complete bike they certainly know how to charge !
Finally battery packs, why aren’t they repairable, say return to Shimano for refurbishment, mine had an internal fault after very few charges and I had to replace with new, unable to find anywhere to repair or recycle the faulty item due to the nature of the BMS.
I sold the bike in the end and gave the new owner the old battery as well otherwise I’m not sure what I’d have done with it.
That's bad design, isn't it. The TQ motor is IP67 and Specialized non SL (1.2, 1.2 E, 1.3, 2.1) are IP67. I'm riding the Rail 7 and no issues, but I would not buy again an eMTB less than the IP67 rating in the motor. I need to wash my bike a lot by using a power washer, but I need to be very careful in the cranks area. BTW I wash my bikes using the Bosch Fontus battery powered washer. There is a "shower" mode, which I use mostly. Power washer mode I use for the tires if needed. In Finland, the winter weather is killer. The snow piles up in the cranks area, and we all know the story end :-)
My bosch gen 4 charger failed,its only 8 months old,took to LBS they proved it faulty,after 4 weeks,im still waiting for a replacement!
I had to buy one to get me through
Shocking customer service from bosch😡
Agreed.
Thats not good
That's the fault of your LBS not Bosch. I bought my bike from Freeborn, when the Bosch motor failed (flooded) they sent me a box to pack the bike into by next day delivery, collected the following day and the bike was returned to me with a brand new motor within one week. A couple of years later I had another issue (torque sensor fail) 4 days before the end of the warranty, and again Freeborn had it back to me 8 days after I sent the bike back to them. Everything covered, including shipping. We always here how we shouldn't buy bikes mail order and support LBS, but my experience of buying mail order from Freeborn has been wonderful!
Yea thats an lbs issue
I have a motor replacement and its on its way from Germany been 1 week
Greetings to you and your son in 🇨🇭👍😇🚲🚲🚲🛠️🔩⚙️🔧⛓️🧰
Thank you
My right crank off my bosch Performance line cx (2017) was wobbling so I took it off to check for damage. A whole part of the bottom bracket axle where the crank should attach to broke off... Trying to figure out what parts I need to fix it. It appears to be a bit more complex than a road bike however 😢
Hi, im not sure which part has broken off, can you send photos?
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic How do I send them to you? Trough email?
I sealed my Shimano 7000 with silicon. Not had a problem in 6000 miles.
I use the cheapest 48v hub motors , no problems with 5 conversions and combined well over 20000m all weather riding with hills .Diy is the way to go . Everyone i know on `an ebike `has had expensive problems and they end up being unused . There is no justification for the non standardization and prices of ebikes imo . Its just pandering to those with to much money like everything .
My ebike has 18k km never clean it with pressure cleaning. Scrub with brush and truck wash rain off with hose blow out with full tank compressed air asap. Oil chain every 50 odd km ride. Take to bike shop 2 times per year to get circuit board and battery checked. I am in OZ so relatively dry warm climate.
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comments and thanks for sharing
There is another point that makes me crazy about full suspension MtB frames is that they use (99% of them) ball bearings on the suspension joints : but a roller bearing is made for rotating full, not for such low amplitude high load stress ! The best technical solution used in the industry in that case is to use bushings on the joints : Self lubricating bushings types (steel-bronze-polymer composite material) with if possible a greasing plug to insure longevity and low friction over time. Greasing should be done periodically (eg. every xx hours of ride) . So yes, it will weight a few grams more and will need a minimal maintenance than a "cartridge roller bearing" solution, but such bushing will last forever if well maintained.... but who cares on an eMtB ?
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comment. a great comment and one that I always think about when doing a bearing change.
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic i had a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR that was killing suspension bearings : I started to change them after 2 years , then once a year, then once every 6 months, then every 2-3 months , then i got tired of it and i scrapped the frame altogether.
Those bearings are tiny, fragile and poorly fitted into a poorly machined frame that do not follow the recommended bearing manufacturer tolerances (OD, ID, co-axiality, squareness etc ...) and that impacts the durability of those fragile bearings a lot. Even more than water ingress !
At then end after replacing those bearings a dozen times, you do what is called an "ovalization" of the housing that induces a play/micro-gap that kills even quicker the new bearings. Only solution would be to machine new housings (larger Diam), shafts (larger Diam) and put a good quality bushing into it (Glycodur style). I know guys that did it successfully. But you need a lathe and a milling machine for that operation .....
I think a lot os to do with de-restriction too! I did it on my old Yamaha bike where after 500 miles I had to get a new motor. I’m reluctant to do it on my new Bosch Cube especially as it’s a Smart System which is easier at detecting devices or magnet tampering.
Think about this you can easily pedal past the 15.5 mph limit especially downhill. The motor,internal gears, and bearings will be spinning at this speed doesn't matter if the motor is adding power. Once an electric motor is up and spinning it's current draw drops as the load is lower a standing start uphill in a high power mode will place much more stress on the motor as it will internal gearing. IMO a chipped bike set at a sensible 20mph is not going to suffer any significant adverse wear. In my experience of 3 years and 16000 miles of commuting on an ebike the weather was my worst enemy and required constant carefully cleaning of my bikes a bit of well placed grease around the outer crank bearings helps but it has to be regularly cleaned off and replaced. Had one Bosch motor replaced fussy free on warranty after going submarine through a puddle and so far had no problems after 2 years with my Yamaha PWX equipped Giant.
@@mrstevepace I think this is why the Volspeed chip works better than most others as it can limit to any speed where as say Speedbox is unlimited and those cause motors such as Bosch into limp mode. 5 times and you have to go to a Bosch dealer and they’ll refuse to fix it free. I was lucky with my Yamaha which I did the magnet trick for which also gives unlimited assist there was no obvious or traceability so they swapped the motor for me. So many posts on FB groups of motors stop working after using chips or magnet hacks
@@CaptnSpaulding I agree re Bosch they can detect chipping and lock you out if you set speed to high. I did have a Volspeed fitted to my bike removed it B4 taking to workshop and no adverse data detected by the Bosch service software. I did sweat for a bit mind until the tech confirmed I'd be getting a new motor under warranty
My ebike worked and now the E010 code & still in the shop. The motors should be lifetime warranty for these codes when we haven't done anything to cause the issues
The Shimano E010 code, Shimano don’t support motor repairs, avoid Shimano motors
Thank you for your comment, I agree with them
any experiences with CM5001 mid drive motor- 750 watt max power ?
Hi, no sorry I have nopt
No Yamaha 😂 currently running pwx3 haibike nduro 6 3000 miles in a year never misses a beat and kno of 3 others with Yamaha motors 2 of them 17 month old no problemos been thru rivers to puddles mountains to mole hills ABSOLUTELY mint motors if carlsberg done ebike motors they would build a Yamaha SIMPLES 🧐
My experience with Bosch has been quite disappointing so I bought a Yamaha 7 w/a 3 year warranty. I'm going to test that.
Just got the Yamaha in a haibike almtn 10. Not ridden it yet untill I fit my invis kit.
Thanks for sharing
I can second that with Yamaha, I was early into E-bikes when I bought a Haibike Sduro AllMnt RC fitted with a Yamaha motor and Fox suspension all the way back in Feb 2015. I bought it because it had 2 crank chainrings with a 10 speed cassette and everything is still working as it should.
My Specialized ebike motor (Brose) starting failing within 200km's. It started exhibiting the dreaded sprag bearing clicking sound at take off. SPL was happy to replace the motor. After which I retuned it to SPL for a full refund.
That’s a shame you suffered so early on, glad you got a resolution though
eMTBs are best for dry climates. They are not sealed well enough for use in muddy or wet conditions on a consistent basis. Truth.
hello, i have a canyon pathlite on 2021 with bosch performance speed gen 4(9630km) dual battery 1000w in total and i dont have errore, i use this bike for food delivery
thanks for your comment. good news
Here's my tale of woe experience to date with a Kalkhoff Image 5 with a Shimano Steps e6100 system. 02/2020 took delivery of bike; 06/2020 E010 - motor failure (
Thank you for your comments
The motors are as waterproof as a paper bag. The manufacturers could easily make them waterproof, mtbs are supposed to ride in water. I think it's not in your interest to make them waterproof. Bosch did not replace my motor when it failed after 14 months. No support or help if they discover water damage!
Bike manufactures would be better off upgrading bearings etc rather that just replacing a motor surely? Oh and spesh offer rider assist on non warrenty parts 👌
No bike shops near me so I would be buggered if I had problems with a e bike motor.
Hi thanks for watching and your comment
Stopping water ingress should be manufacturers number one priority. MTBs spend their life in mud and crud here in the UK. They're not fit for purpose if they can't handle it 😔. Could you imagine a motocross bike that let crud in the engine, the company wouldn't last long. And the maddening thing is.. some e-bikes cost the same price if not more. 🤯
Thanks for your comment, the ebike downside is that it has 2 crank arms that take so much punishment that the bearings soo loose their resistance to water
Englands weather wrecks everything 😅 🇬🇧
It bloody does, thats true
Shimano (or anybody) can't make a bottom bracket that doesn't grind in UK weather after 6 months, fat chance for motor longevity!
My Nikolai eBoxx 2020 Bosch Gen 4 motor has almost 10 000 km and i can hear a noisy "click" metallic sound when i push to the left pedal reaching the 6h position. Nothing with the right pedal pressure. If i stop pedaling (pushing on the left pedal) then i hear a second click right after the first one as if there is some kind of inertia to the click cause.... I explored all other potential root causes and failed to find any one. The frame bearings are super strong (vs other mass produced brands i know) and feel OK on the fingers and not cracking when jumping on the bike under whatever position. Pedals are 100% OK also. I tightened the motor fixation bolts (except the brackets hollowed Torx 25 that i wait for the special tool for it). The noise comes clearly from the motor area. Shall i ask for a motor replacement out of the 2 Years warranty ? (cost about 800€ ...). Or shall i continue to use the bike until the motor fails completely ?
Hi, thanks for your comments, take it to your dealer for a mechanical diagnostic session, discuss with them your options and there opinions.
no first hand experience, but it strikes me odd that people seem to think 10 k miles is a huge amount for an ebike motor. is that really the case? 10 k in a regular bicycle is only getting started! that's two years worth of riding for someone who rides 10 hours a week.
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comments
What about people who bought their bikes second hand? Why are they getting different treatment?
Hi, what a great question, with the exception of Specialized warranties are not transferable i'm afraid, I personally try to help everyone if I can and its not outside the scope of the sales conditions
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic I understand you being a honest person trying to help everyone but I was surprised when I found out that Bosch doesn't honor their warranty when bike is not owned by the original buyer! How is that legal at all?
I bought two Bosch bikes from the original buyer, both with very low millage. I have all of the documents and when I asked the original seller for software update I found out it is not free service as I'm not the one who bought bikes from them. Despite both bikes being less than a year old! Why bother paying premium for Bosch if they treat their customers like that?
What’s the difference between free replacement and a 100% discount?
Labour cost I’d guess.
@@chuck1622Ahhh makes sense. Thanks!
Hi, Thanks for watching and your comments, a replacement under warranty, would mean that the warranty period still starts from the purchase date. 100% discount would mean that the new motor comes with 2 years warranty.
Poor dropper...
How do you tell what generation is your Motor.....
there is a silver sticker on the motor or if you go to www.ebikemotorcentre.com/faqs-bosch/
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic Thanks for your help....
Iv no experience of these and all the time my legs work it shall remain that way
Hi what about giant bike which use Yamaha motors
Hi, giant have there own software & firmware installed, only giant dealers have access. but we have had none in??????
My friend (Quebec, Canada) has a low volume shop who sell two known mountain bike brands and he is complaining about how the very high end motors on expensive bikes are as poorly sealed as a 2k Amazon ebice... That's not reassuring to me 😅
so there are lots of us then
@@TheYorkshireBikeMechanic I had a turbo levo for about 5 months I did sell it before Autumn, I guess it was an uneducated smart move lol 😂
Cheers
Bosch and Shimano are way over rated ! get yourself a real mid drive conversion kit with a bafang 750 watt motor and a 20ah battery for around $1,300, we have two of them and they both have done over 5,000 km each and the only thing i had to replace was the pawl clutch which only cost me $20, i watched 2 videos on youtube on how to do it myself and in 1 hour i had it fixed and if you want to know the secret on how to keep water out of your electrics, motor and everywhere else you dont want water to get into ? use Lanolin spray it over the motor, we live in the tropics and in the wet season it rains more than england could ever dream about and we have no problems spray and ride !
a bike rack on a car is the worse place to put your ebike, cold damp air rushing at the motor at 70mph will killit fast
Not hard to wrap / seal it up though