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So beautifully shared…this has been a journey for me…one where I have faced many uncomfortable realizations about myself and how I am willing to show up in community. Love is the first great truth of heaven and the first great commandment. Allowing this truth to guide my efforts to keep and hold and honor and cherish this commandment has been the journey of my lifetime.
I love this....thank you for providing this....highly inspirational....love it... I hope people on all spectrums - those who embrace their faith, and even those whose faith has waned, all the way to those who have no faith at all can see the beauty of this message. I hope people can put the vitriol of hurt feelings from their church experience behind them - and try to give grace when it’s needed. We all need more kindness, less judgement, and more “cheerleading” from our church communities. Our faiths are there to help us become better people and to celebrate what we all do right and good - not just point out where we fail. We’re all imperfect people, stumbling along the journey of life, yearning to return to God. Let’s cut some slack to everyone. Smile and be happy Thanks again to Faith Matters for producing inspiring content!
I'm reminded of the first Sunday we came back to church after lockdown. Everyone was on time. We all wanted to be there. It was a witness to me of how valuable it is to meet together.
I didn't want to be there. I went to support my husband. I listened to two female speakers with scrupulosity, who shit hard on themselves from the pulput. It was toxic. I'm glad going back was nice for you, but maybe you are not aware of how other people experience church.
Thank you SO much for all of your insights and deepest feelings and understandings of why church. It spoke to the deepest corners of my uncomfort. I do pray to love all people where they are as they are, just like Jesus. This is hard to do if I choose not to love others at church.
There was a great comment in a Church news video with a Rabbi that attended the recent (Oct 23) General Conference that "some assembly required" can mean both the putting together and gathering together. Church is the translation of the Greek for assembly.
Elder Brent H. Nielson: “Mary Hales, the wife of Elder Robert D. Hales…taught something that really helped us in our family. In a few simple words, this is what she taught. We go to church to give, not to get. We go to church to give, not to get. She talked about her experience as she would walk in through the chapel door before sacrament meeting. And when she arrived through the chapel doors, she would look to see who in the congregation was sitting by themselves. She looks to see who needed help during sacrament meeting because they had a number of children. She would look to see if there was someone new here that I haven't seen before because she knew she was going to church to give, not to get.” (“Discipleship is NOT a Spectator Sport”, Ensign College, February 14, 2023)
A couple of sincere questions: (1) The video includes a lot of clips of “church”-related gatherings of people from other faiths-the implications are that (a) anyone can “church” in any church-like space that has church-type motivations, and (b) probably there is nothing you can do church-wise participating in an LDS congregation that someone could not do equally as well participating in any other church-type congregation in any other faith, and (c) noting the Islamic congregations featured (and Hindu too?), that Christianity is not any better for churching than any other faith tradition where people church. Do you (i.e., Faith Matters people who made the video) endorse those implications, or which of them, or with what caveats? (2) Could someone who does not believe in God or Jesus (as divine), but who understands and respects LDS culture (say they grew up in it) and who is not trying to disrupt meetings or upset anyone “church” with an LDS congregation as effectively and, say, completely, as someone who does believe? If you think “yes,” then I think the video holds together logically for me, but if you think “no,” I’m confused and would appreciate thoughts.
My opinion only...but Faith Matters is "on the edge" and at times, way over the edge of what apostles and prophets teach. They do more "pulling away" than "pulling toward." This video is an example of that. We go to "church" on Sundays for one primary reason, to renew the covenant we made with Jesus Christ to be his disciple, through the holy sacrament. Jesus himself instituted this tradition. You don't get to participate in the sacrament in a Hindu meeting or a mega church meeting. Only in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Have you tried not going for awhile? It is pretty great. I love: More time with my spouse. Sleeping in and pancakes on Sunday Doing things without guilt or intense anxiety Picking out my own underwear Being able to say the swear words in songs Learning to be comfortable saying “I don’t know” Better critical thinking skills Protecting my kids from shame culture The list goes on and on…
I agree that there is a certain value to gathering once every week. However, in my opinion, the time spent in giving and listening to talks and lessons could be put to better use elsewhere. You know what I'd prefer? Do a 10 minute Sacrament service, and dedicate the remaining 110 minutes to service projects or to magnifying our ministering assignments. That'd be the perfect time to serve, because everybody has that block of time set aside anyway.
“The preaching of the word … had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them” (Alma 31:5). There is a time to hear the word and a time to do the word.
All this is very warm and fuzzy, but the real issue in Mormon "ecclesiology" is the irresoluble tensions resulting from enforced obedience, compliance, and the relinquishing of one's most basic human endowments: critical thinking and freedom of speech!
@@wheelercreek Your comment just served as exhibit A of my own view above. "Hold your peace or get the hell out"! Wonderful concept of "free agency". Without the ability to express it freely, an idea is nothing. This enforcement of an arbitrary orthodoxy is not restricted to church meetings, of course. Try to publicly express your belief in a Book of Mormon authored by Joseph Smith et al. as a devotional fiction meant to unite his family first and bring followers to a new church (and the reader to Christianity), and just count the minutes before you are summoned to a loving court by the local inquisitor in Israel. Silence in exchange for "good standing" is outright oppression. Mormonism does not refrain from infringing on personal freedom of speech even outside of the choreographed and micromanaged "worship" setting. That is the acid test of a cult. Back to church. The moment a member can declare his or her belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon from a pulpit (to use the same example), on any given Sunday, without fear of reprisal, "church discipline", or ostracism, that will be the day the Brighamite branch of Mormonism will have made a transition toward church status, and away from cultic territory. A deep reformation, including limits, checks and balances, on the power of the hierarchy is long overdue.
@@stephenwolfe8332 speak up then. It easy to talk about Joseph or Brigham not being perfect as if once they gave incorrect directions to the supermarket. Try talking in class about joes polygamy looking a lot like sin or Russell Nelson’s inaccurate airplane story or Korean story. Test the waters. See what happens.
This is a group of individuals sharing nuances. Example it was great being out of church during COVID but time to go back. That is towing the company line. If the system was pliable and listened to what congregants needed, remote sacrament wouldn’t be locked down. Scouts would have actually been replaced with something. Church is boring. BORING!! Every talk and class lesson is a rehash of monotone conference talks. And a tally race for Nelson quote bingo.
A nine minute and twenty second video about church or going to church and not one word about following the commandment of Jesus Christ to participate in the sacrament that he established? That is the primary reason we go to church. To renew our covenant and participate in a physical ordinance that Jesus established. Everything else is secondary to that. Not sure why Faith Matters left that little item out.
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Thank you for taking the time to share this❤ so many wonderful thoughts.
So beautifully shared…this has been a journey for me…one where I have faced many uncomfortable realizations about myself and how I am willing to show up in community. Love is the first great truth of heaven and the first great commandment. Allowing this truth to guide my efforts to keep and hold and honor and cherish this commandment has been the journey of my lifetime.
I love this....thank you for providing this....highly inspirational....love it...
I hope people on all spectrums - those who embrace their faith, and even those whose faith has waned, all the way to those who have no faith at all can see the beauty of this message.
I hope people can put the vitriol of hurt feelings from their church experience behind them - and try to give grace when it’s needed.
We all need more kindness, less judgement, and more “cheerleading” from our church communities.
Our faiths are there to help us become better people and to celebrate what we all do right and good - not just point out where we fail. We’re all imperfect people, stumbling along the journey of life, yearning to return to God. Let’s cut some slack to everyone. Smile and be happy
Thanks again to Faith Matters for producing inspiring content!
Thanks for sharing your voices for all of us!
I'm reminded of the first Sunday we came back to church after lockdown. Everyone was on time. We all wanted to be there. It was a witness to me of how valuable it is to meet together.
I didn't want to be there. I went to support my husband. I listened to two female speakers with scrupulosity, who shit hard on themselves from the pulput. It was toxic.
I'm glad going back was nice for you, but maybe you are not aware of how other people experience church.
Thank you SO much for all of your insights and deepest feelings and understandings of why church. It spoke to the deepest corners of my uncomfort. I do pray to love all people where they are as they are, just like Jesus. This is hard to do if I choose not to love others at church.
There was a great comment in a Church news video with a Rabbi that attended the recent (Oct 23) General Conference that "some assembly required" can mean both the putting together and gathering together. Church is the translation of the Greek for assembly.
Beautiful.
Beautifully expressed the true meaning of Church. Thank you!
THANK YOU! Thank you! Over and over again!
I absolutely loved this! Thank you!❤
Elder Brent H. Nielson:
“Mary Hales, the wife of Elder Robert D. Hales…taught something that really helped us in our family. In a few simple words, this is what she taught. We go to church to give, not to get. We go to church to give, not to get. She talked about her experience as she would walk in through the chapel door before sacrament meeting. And when she arrived through the chapel doors, she would look to see who in the congregation was sitting by themselves. She looks to see who needed help during sacrament meeting because they had a number of children. She would look to see if there was someone new here that I haven't seen before because she knew she was going to church to give, not to get.”
(“Discipleship is NOT a Spectator Sport”, Ensign College, February 14, 2023)
A couple of sincere questions:
(1) The video includes a lot of clips of “church”-related gatherings of people from other faiths-the implications are that (a) anyone can “church” in any church-like space that has church-type motivations, and (b) probably there is nothing you can do church-wise participating in an LDS congregation that someone could not do equally as well participating in any other church-type congregation in any other faith, and (c) noting the Islamic congregations featured (and Hindu too?), that Christianity is not any better for churching than any other faith tradition where people church. Do you (i.e., Faith Matters people who made the video) endorse those implications, or which of them, or with what caveats?
(2) Could someone who does not believe in God or Jesus (as divine), but who understands and respects LDS culture (say they grew up in it) and who is not trying to disrupt meetings or upset anyone “church” with an LDS congregation as effectively and, say, completely, as someone who does believe? If you think “yes,” then I think the video holds together logically for me, but if you think “no,” I’m confused and would appreciate thoughts.
My opinion only...but Faith Matters is "on the edge" and at times, way over the edge of what apostles and prophets teach. They do more "pulling away" than "pulling toward." This video is an example of that. We go to "church" on Sundays for one primary reason, to renew the covenant we made with Jesus Christ to be his disciple, through the holy sacrament. Jesus himself instituted this tradition. You don't get to participate in the sacrament in a Hindu meeting or a mega church meeting. Only in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Have you tried not going for awhile? It is pretty great.
I love:
More time with my spouse.
Sleeping in and pancakes on Sunday
Doing things without guilt or intense anxiety
Picking out my own underwear
Being able to say the swear words in songs
Learning to be comfortable saying “I don’t know”
Better critical thinking skills
Protecting my kids from shame culture
The list goes on and on…
Not an either or… I can do all those things and still go to church❤
Beautiful. And also anathema to most members of the Q15 as it directly contradicts what they teach as the purpose and definition of church.
Sounds great but I think church is better
I agree that there is a certain value to gathering once every week.
However, in my opinion, the time spent in giving and listening to talks and lessons could be put to better use elsewhere.
You know what I'd prefer? Do a 10 minute Sacrament service, and dedicate the remaining 110 minutes to service projects or to magnifying our ministering assignments. That'd be the perfect time to serve, because everybody has that block of time set aside anyway.
“The preaching of the word … had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them” (Alma 31:5). There is a time to hear the word and a time to do the word.
🫰
All this is very warm and fuzzy, but the real issue in Mormon "ecclesiology" is the irresoluble tensions resulting from enforced obedience, compliance, and the relinquishing of one's most basic human endowments: critical thinking and freedom of speech!
@@wheelercreek Your comment just served as exhibit A of my own view above. "Hold your peace or get the hell out"! Wonderful concept of "free agency". Without the ability to express it freely, an idea is nothing. This enforcement of an arbitrary orthodoxy is not restricted to church meetings, of course. Try to publicly express your belief in a Book of Mormon authored by Joseph Smith et al. as a devotional fiction meant to unite his family first and bring followers to a new church (and the reader to Christianity), and just count the minutes before you are summoned to a loving court by the local inquisitor in Israel. Silence in exchange for "good standing" is outright oppression. Mormonism does not refrain from infringing on personal freedom of speech even outside of the choreographed and micromanaged "worship" setting. That is the acid test of a cult. Back to church. The moment a member can declare his or her belief in a non-historical Book of Mormon from a pulpit (to use the same example), on any given Sunday, without fear of reprisal, "church discipline", or ostracism, that will be the day the Brighamite branch of Mormonism will have made a transition toward church status, and away from cultic territory. A deep reformation, including limits, checks and balances, on the power of the hierarchy is long overdue.
Wow. When does that enforced obedience start? I haven't seen it yet. Bring it on.
@@stephenwolfe8332 Either you are completely out of touch, or you are just feigning ignorance. Not worth anyone's time either way.
@@stephenwolfe8332 speak up then. It easy to talk about Joseph or Brigham not being perfect as if once they gave incorrect directions to the supermarket. Try talking in class about joes polygamy looking a lot like sin or Russell Nelson’s inaccurate airplane story or Korean story. Test the waters. See what happens.
@@hobgoblin1976 If you believe the Book of Mormon is fiction, what would you be doing there in the first place?
This is a group of individuals sharing nuances. Example it was great being out of church during COVID but time to go back. That is towing the company line. If the system was pliable and listened to what congregants needed, remote sacrament wouldn’t be locked down. Scouts would have actually been replaced with something. Church is boring. BORING!! Every talk and class lesson is a rehash of monotone conference talks. And a tally race for Nelson quote bingo.
A nine minute and twenty second video about church or going to church and not one word about following the commandment of Jesus Christ to participate in the sacrament that he established? That is the primary reason we go to church. To renew our covenant and participate in a physical ordinance that Jesus established. Everything else is secondary to that. Not sure why Faith Matters left that little item out.
Yep....sorta....you don't pay tithing to a dam "church". You pay it to a corporation.
The perfect church on Earth does not exist and you cannot make the perfect church. If you can prove me wrong and find this church DO NOT JOIN IT!!! If you do you will spoil it.