Q&A, Tanning Furs v.s. Leather
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2020
- Some differences between tannning fur on skins and tanning leather with the hair removed.
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Need to work on that :)
Just found it. Thanks for praying for me bro
Why, I'm 9 minutes in and he hasn't talked about the subject of the title. He has just been rambling about salting and storing.
@@moneymike787 This is because arresting bacterial growth is the no.1 most important part of tanning furs. That is why most of the video is talking about how to stop bacterial growth. With leather, you dont really need to worry about that - at least not to a similar degree.
@@SkillCult😊
Keep making more of this video. I made a deer skin rug. It on the stiff side but the hair is lock in. No slipping. Really would be nice to make one softer
This guy is way under rated! Just found this channel and you can tell he knows what hes doing
I just finished a fur on, whitetail buck pelt a few weeks ago. I wish I had found your channel before undertaking this process because this is a great compilation of knowledge.
This was my first successful hide, so I am purely novice, however I thought I'd throw out my findings regarding slippage when dressing. I started by fleshing and then salting for several days until it was dried. Then I soaked it in a solution of citric acid and salt (3oz of citric acid and one pound of salt per gal o water). I used 6 gallons of water for this. I soaked it in this for 24hrs, fleshed again and soaked an additional 48 hrs. I also used PH strips to ensure the solution was at or below 2. Then rinsed with fresh water and soaked the hide in a a solution of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) for 20 minutes (1 heaping table spoon of baking soda per gal of water) to raise the PH in preparation for accepting the tanning solution. I was trying to take a somewhat primitive approach so I didn't want to rely on a commercial tanning formula. Unfortunately, I had already boiled the head for European mounting and had not saved the brains, so I did an egg yolk dressing (about 16 eggs). Using a paint brush, I coated the entire flesh side with the yolk and massaged it into the skin. I then covered the skin side with plastic which stuck to the damp skin and rolled it up. I then placed the rolled up hide in the fridge for about 3-4 days. I rinsed the egg solution off, let it dry to the point of being almost dry but still slightly damp, and began breaking the hide over a post as it dried. once it was seemingly dry and broken in all areas, I smoked the hide for about 3 hrs in a skirted tripod setup. It was still not as soft as I had hoped, though there weren't any hard spots. I then took a damp rag and working small sections at a time. I would dampen about 1sq/ft at a time and massaged neats foot oil into the flesh side. I stretched and pulled it some more over the course of about an hour and the resultant pelt is extremely soft and pliable. I'm not sure if refrigerating the hide while the yolk soaked in has any adverse effects to the process, put I had no slippage. I have tried wetting part of the hide to see how it would dry, and it stayed perfectly supple and soft after drying. Anyway, if you don't see a problem with refrigerating while it tans, that may be a go around for the bacterial slippage problem. As a side note, i was worried that applying the neats foot oil would leave oily residue, but within a day the hide had soaked it all up and it just feels like supple leather with no residues. Thanks again for all your hard work bringing us this great info and please keep it coming!
Most primitive Tanner's don't pickle, but there's a good reason pickling is used in every commercial fur tanning method I know of. It's more than just preservation, it does something similar to bucking leather, only on the acid end of the pH scale...it tends to make softening easier. Alum is a pickle of course, but there's other natural pickles that won't burn your skin. I've been doing a lot of smoke tanned furs lately, dressing mainly with eggs, but they are usually pickled first, which makes hair slippage less likely. Watch those ears, though. Always a good idea to salt the ears before drying the hide and blood is the enemy.
That's interesting. I usually salt my skins for braintanned buckskin and never noticed any advantage. I kind of figured that in commercial tanning it was more of a preservative than anything else, as few thing are like tanning in the preservative power and hair setting combined. Thanks for weighing in Loren.
@@SkillCult not the salt per say, I mean soaking the skin in an actual acid pickle. Citric acid, vinegar, etc. General rule of thumb is also add a lb of salt per gallon water and monitor pH to ensure its acid enough. Neatralize in five days or whatever with baking soda, wash and proceed with the tanning.
@@lorenstallsmith5785 ah, right, I'm mixing up pickling and brining. I don't understand acid effects and acid swelling very well. Old veg tan processes often use acidity, like drenches or old acidic bark liquors. Sometimes to neutralize alkalis, sometimes to raise the skin and apparently sometimes even to de-hair. So much to learn. If I can't make it or potentially gather it, I'm not really interested, so I don't pay attention to modern tanning.
@@SkillCult if your barktan solution is strong enough, you are essentially pickling and tanning at the same time. I think quebracho extract has a pH of around 4 and I've had furs in it for up to a year and the fur was tight.
Isn't pickling makes process longer if you work with tannin? I noticed that working fur on hide frequently as possible on spreader board while tanning in oak bark speeds up hair locking if tea is strong enough and frankly whole process takes little bit less .
I just found your channel and am so glad I did. What an amazing resource. Thank you for sharing.
Welcome :)
Dude, thanks again. I have a bobcat and a fox in my freezer right now (first skinning work I've done in over 20 years!). This will be a huge help.
Those are both relatively easy skins because they tend to be pretty thin. Safest bet is to look up an alum and salt recipe. I don't really use it, beause I favor things I can make or gather, but it's non noxious, it's not bad for the skin and it works.
Great info, thanks for making these kinds of Q&A videos. They're easy to watch and I always feel like I've learned something.
Excellent Steven! I've just learned tons more from the Skillcult School! Kind Thanks! DaveyJO
Glad you commented on that other channel. Thank you for the educational content.
Great video as always! I've got two deer hides almost finished with the tanning process and will share a video of them with you when they're done. Almost everything I've learned about tanning has been from your channel, and I greatly appreciate the help!
Very cool. I still hope to get some vids on finishing bark tan done this fall. that is the piece that is missing, though there is some stuff about it in some vids, I don't actually demonstrate it anywhere.
@@SkillCult I managed to get enough information about finishing from a few of your videos, but a consolidated video would be helpful for sure.
I have one smaller deer hide that was finished about six weeks ago. Rubbed in a 1/3 olive oil and 2/3 deer tallow mixture on both sides, and used a slicker tile to stick the hide to a plastic panel while it dried. Came out nice and stiff like I wanted.
For the next two hides, I plan on finishing one to be supple and wrinkled by using a graining board, while the other will be stiff.
Another great video from the only person doing really good videos about tanning on CZcams. And CZcams decided not to notify me of your new videos for the last few months, even though I've been subscribed for years. Guess I gotta actually hit the bell icon. :)
Yep,it's all about the notifications. If you don't watch someone for a short time, they will disappear from your home page suggestions pretty quick
Great video! You have perhaps the best info on the subject on here! Thanks!
Great information. Thank you!
Yes finally thank you so much
Amazing channel that I just stumbled upon - gained a subscriber for life
Welcome, just tell about 100,000 other people :)
This is super helpful!!! Thank you so much!!
so glad you uploaded new leather related video since i will try some domestic rabbit skins in the coming weeks. Even though i will do it with dehairing since it is easier and i have some plans for the leather but anyway very informative for future projects
Rabbit is a good fur to learn on when you do go there. Domestic rabbit anyway. Wild Rabbits I've seen are always too thin to tan. I assume that is true elsewhere as well.
@@SkillCult I will definitely try fur one day, although i have no idea what to use it for since i have no sewing skills. Inspired by your videos I will try this summer to tan rabbit skin (domestic) and depending how it turns out i wanna do a simple journal cover.
thank you
Thank you
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This what i was looking for
Thank you
Ive an issue
Its my first hide i dont have the scraping knife so i did the scraping with regular knife it was not so clean
Should i process my goat fur further like this would it be okay
Best info on the web, Steven! For some reason people always want to do hides hair-on first, I'll send them to this video. I personally really dislike tanning furs - so easy to get slippage, and product not half as useful, unless climate is cold anyway. btw when I have to, I use sumac leaves to minimize discoloration, and prefer dark haired animals. Black sheep of the family has its advantages. Thanks! be well
Nimrod
I'm not a fan of tanning furs either, but we can both afford not to care. I think the lightest color I know here is a species of acorn cap. It's a sort of light golden color.
@@SkillCult what do you think about osage orange fruit
Great info thanks
Tanning furs in NC is so hard! I would pickle any fur, even if I was going to bark tan it, here in wet Appalachia. Sumac and Japanese Knotweed have mild dyeing effects in my experience.
Ha, I bet. I want to experiment with using light colored material like Sumac, doing very brief dips to lock the hair, maybe followed by tanning from the flesh side, at least for thin skins. I have a film about reindeer people in Siberia where they tan caribou hock skins using punky larch powder applied to the flesh side. The claim was that it's something besides tannin doing the work. There is also a Yosemite Miwok account of using punky wood on the flesh side of bear skins. I don't remember if it said that it was to absorb grease, or if I just assumed that, but I've often wondered if there was not also some tanning effect.
@@SkillCult there's a book called Spirit of Siberia that has pictures of that process. Essential book to get. They (The Chukchi) also bate furs with reindeer dung!
@@dennislanigan1082 That's the book on making boots right? If so, I have that. Johnny Rock gifted it to us years ago. I don't think I ever really dug into it.
Great thankyou... I treat your videos as the tanning bible.. I like the way you explain this stuff. I have done deer and rabbit mostly, hair on and hair off... also bark tanned salmon. All using your videos for reference. Thanks
Glad I can help :)
Is the product Tannit still available, I’ve used that several times and had really good results on fur hides?
Also I don’t know how Eskimos tanned fur but they obviously knew how their lives depended on it.
Thanks ,this is badass.
Thanks a lot for this video. I watch your videos on leather tanning a lot. now I am working on hare skins. This video gives me insight into what I am doing. In the coming days, I will collect alder bark to experiment with it. Do you have any experience with tannins from alder bark. Also for leather without hair? Does it make the leather very brittle? Greetings from the Netherlands. wetlands.
Yes, it is hard to extreact, so chop or grind it fine. I read somewhere that there is more in young trees, or that it is easier to get out, I forget which. It is not super brittle, but that is it's reputation.
I have a skin in the freezer from a dead bobcat we found .. thinking it died of distemper when it was cold out. This is all a bit out of my range of abilities at this point. Can you recommend a place I could send this hide to get a nice soft pelt?
cant help you there.
Any advice on stopping hair from falling out once it has already started? I have a dried bison hide I want to tan, but the hair is already coming out in clumps in some spots. It’s probably just too far gone I assume.
On, I think that's a good one to turn into leather. There is one very old account of plains Indian women tanning buffalo robes that says if the hair began to slip during the process, fine oak bark was applied to the hair side of the skin. but if it's coming out easily in quantitiy, I think you should just take it off and get another one to tan with the hair on.
Question. If I tan a leather like you do (but with birch, willow or spruce, because I live in north-eastern Europe). Is your tanning method enough to create somewhat waterproof leather (somewhat, because leather eventually gets wet without tar, beeswax, etc.), as you say that it makes them pretty rot-proof? Because I want to create also leather, with which I can make medieval turnshoes (with couple or several layers of leather under the feet). Or do I have to smoke it like at least american indians did? Or something else?
I don't know much about waterproof leather unfortunately. Some very quality tanned leather will have a natural repellent effect, but I really don't know how to create it consistently. For something like that, they may have just stuffed it full of waterproof stuff like fats and waxes as you mention.
I’m planning on doing rabbit furs which I guess would be a thin skin so working them from the back I suppose would probably work which makes sense because I have seen people on CZcams. Use the egg yolk from the skin side.
Yes. Wild rabbits don't tan at all really, at least not american species or hares.. they are too thin. But domestic ones do.
Hey Steve, I have brain-tanned wool-on sheepskin. The rug is beautiful and fluffy. However, it has kept the smell of the brain solution despite the use of finishing oily mixture. Any suggestions on how to get rid of that odd smell? Thanks!
Smoke, but it might be kind of strong and keep it away from the hair. Best be careful with brains and smells if you are not smoking or tanning in bark.
@@SkillCult Thanks!
Can you explain why you do not want to dry the hair with a blow drier on hot setting? Does heat risk damaging the skin or hair? Thank you
If very hot it could literally cook the skin. On not too hot, it might be okay if the hide dries fast, but heat speeds decomposition by bacteria. I'd probably stick with cold or just a little warm.
I tanned some sheep skins with fur on in tannic acid and after taking them out and letting them dry out they have a particular smell even a year later. Any tips on getting rid of or changing the smell? Smells a lot like the tannic bath itself, the skins look wonderful otherwise but it would be nice to be able to have them in the house if i could figure out how to change the smell. Have thought of smoking?
Dunno. It's probably in the hair, because usually the skins will just smell like leather, even if coming out of a strong smelling bath. Of course I don't know what that bath was like or if it was strong enough etc. Maybe try thoroughly shampooing the hair with some bentonite clay and let it sit for a few hours before rinsing out. Hopefully washing them won't be a problem if the hair is set well. How much was the hair colored?
@@SkillCult The hair is a medium brown now, thanks for the idea I will try that out. Didn't even think about that the smell could be in the hair.
Que chicken! Chicken is active roll film 😂 love it
Does alcohol work for fixing hairs? Had some succes with it in the past
I don't know. Sounds like you know more than I do about.
If you have dried the hide can it be tanned a year later?
Yes
Can you use alcohol to kill the bacteria in the hair follicles to slow the process down?
I don't know. never tried it.
If you consider tanning processes - industrial or brain tanning ... consider using an old 1930s style of wringer washer. Filll the wash basin with your solute. Use the wringer washer for the tanning mechanism and its continual washing, soaking, and pressing to get the whole fur or leather properly softened, equally tanned, etc. Using a connective means (sewing pelt together into a strip), sew around the wringers, so that it goes through multiple wringers before coming back down into the wash basin. This totally softens and presses the leather into the most deluxe of fabric - depending on the looseness (rawhide) or extreme wringing (soft leather) with length of time involved in the process.
czcams.com/video/FJd83ebcQtQ/video.html hand wringer products
A bit modern for my leanings. We have a 40's wringer washer here I do laundry in, but the wringer is not engaging. eventually I'll open it and try to fix.
How do I tan a stingray hide
I haven't tanned ray or shark skin myself. I would probably lime, scrape and tan in tannic acid.
Garden centers have alum. It is used acidify soil.
cool, I bet it's cheap there too.
@@SkillCult If you hunt around it runs about $22 for 5 lbs. Alum for dying is the most expensive, it is also the purest.
A long time ago a guy showed me a bark tan coyote that was soft as braintan. Ever since I've been dying to learn this sorcery.
Bark tanning is easy to fall in love with once you do it once and it works. It is pretty magical.
Just add olive oil
coon creek is very good for info. why dont you both do a video together. he was doing some tanning as the market is not so good. be a cool colab any ways
He's great. I should go see what he's up to.
All alum is part aluminum sulfate and part another sulfate. In potassium alum, it's mixed with potassium sulfate, and in ammonium alum it's mixed with ammonium sulfate.
Ok. I wouldn't really know. I have hardly used it really.
Man, your an encyclopedia.
Supor 🇰🇿🖐
I knew it.. that you were an asheville person
You mean NC? I was outside weaverville for a winter, and that was the biggest town. I vaguely remember mentioning that in a video.