Why is Baten Kaitos Origins so difficult?
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2024
- A major reason why Baten Kaitos Origins is so frustrating to many people is the deck system, or rather how it breaks when players use 40 cards or more. This video is meant to shed some light on the issue while also providing some insights into the battle system and how to make it more enjoyable. Expand description for more battle tips.
0:00 Deck building
1:39 Conclusion
2:48 60 card battle
5:53 30 card battle
7:32 20 card battle
Collect Mountain Apples in Cebalrai to increase your party's HP by 5% per apple. Note that the HP bonus only lasts one hour because the apples will start to rot.
If you desparately need healing items, keep mashing B until you draw one.
Press C-left or C-right to switch characters.
Pressing X (or C-left/right) while selecting or discarding magnus will cut the turn short. This avoids having to wait for the timer to run out.
Pressing X otherwise will make your character pass. The word "PASS" will be displayed below their HP and delay gauges until you press X again to unpass. This can be useful in situations where you're waiting for a specific character and want to select their cards immediately without switching characters.
If weapons keep cluttering your hand, equip a weapon, press X to end the turn, and then continue discarding.
Attacking with a weapon equipped does MUCH more damage than without one. This is especially true for standard attacks.
Most armor magnus aren't very useful. They come at the cost of not having a weapon equipped, and with a small enough deck, you can already draw healing items relatively quickly. However, there are four shields that make enemies target the user, which may be helpful: Round Shield, Coin Shield, Devil Tower Shield, and Mellow Shield.
If you open the target menu with L or R, you can take a look at the enemies' delay gauges.
You can press X to cancel a relay combo. This makes it so the first character starts acting immediately and doesn't have wait for the other characters. Attacking before the enemy may be vital to winning a battle. This also gives you a chance to target a different enemy instead of wasting a turn on overkill.
After an MP burst, the MP gauge will be stuck at 0 for 35 seconds. For this reason, you should carefully consider when to use an MP burst. It's only worth the risk if you can chain together enough special attacks, and if some of them require level 3 or 4. If your deck class is high enough, you may not even need an MP burst for a 4-5-6 combo since you'll gain enough MP from the cards before it.
Press down on the control stick or D-pad to rearrange cards in your hand.
Useful magnus:
Warrior's Scarf: increases MP by a decent amount and protects the wearer from knockdown and unconsciousness
Taunt: increases MP by a decent amount and makes all enemies target the user
Cross Pendant: automatically revives the wearer one time
Use bombs wisely: If despite your best efforts, you're still outmatched by the enemies, try trading some valuable magnus for a Bomb. This item has a 40% chance to instantly kill the target. If it fails, the user loses 90% of their HP (relative to max HP). Bomb doesn't work on bosses, except that one only found in the coliseum. A 10 card deck with just bomb(s), healing items, and MP chargers for artifacts makes battles easy to win. Add an escape card for an easy way out if needed.
The state of the wingdash gauge affects the start of a battle. If it's yellow, you'll gain some MP. If it's orange, you'll gain even more MP. However, if it's red (or orange during heartwing exhaustion), you'll be unable to select cards for about 10 seconds.
Tool displaying battle info: github.com/Exchord/Baten-Kait...
Spreadsheet showing draw chances: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
"Crush": This value increases with each hit a character receives, gradually reducing their defense. If it reaches a certain threshold, the character will get knocked down or unconscious at the end of the combo. After a combo ends, crush is reset to 0, restoring the initial defense.
Battle conditions: Deck class 17, Sagi level 34, Guillo level 34, Milly level 33, no auras, no beneficial quest magnus, spirit score 100
The game feed and the deck viewer aren't perfectly synced all the time. This is because I used two different recording methods: Dolphin's frame dump for the game feed, and OBS's live capture for the deck viewer. - Hry
Apparently the designer did this intentionally because they wanted to avoid the redundancy you see in turnbase games, it was developed so that the tension you get as a lv1 character in these turn base games is always present. It's pretty genius actually
I have to say they achieved the desired effect because it's my most loved battle system of all time when it comes to turn-based RPGs. The sheer speed and unpredictability of battles makes every fight unique.
I'm just waiting for the remaster to release so that I can play through them again.
Woah...I always used 60 card deck. OOF. I will keep that in mind when playing the remaster game.
The game was only difficult because 10 year old me did not understand that you were supposed to stack tiers 1-4 special attacks, rather than have all tier 3 special attacks. I watched OmegaEvolution's fight once, then the game was smooth sailing from there.
Believe me. I had that same issue as a kid, it took me too many attempts to finally figure that out. After that i ended loving the battle system despite hitting a difficult curve here and there. Man the developers knew what they were doing.
Super high quality video!
You have some of the best edited Baten Kaitos stuff I’ve seen on CZcams. Subscribed!
the king has returned
You're back!
That helps a lot, I know I bounced off the system when I tried it out.
Cool to see some in depth videos discussing the nuances of th battle system. I've beaten the game three times and never get tired of it. I stuck with a 40 card deck with lvl 1-4 specials for each character (sans Millie) Ive to pull off that perfect 25 card combo but will one day. I just found out in burst you can play the same level special so it's technically possible to play every special in the game in a single combo? Has anyone pulled this off?
It could be possible in theory, but it's very unlikely to be pulled off in practice. There are 34 unique special attacks, all of which need to be included in the deck. As demonstrated in my most recent video, it is possible to perform extremely long combos by pressing X after weak attacks. But if you use an MP burst, pressing X will stop the combo. So to make sure you always have enough MP, you will need to balance the deck with a lot of standard attacks (and maybe weapons, too).
Let's assume you're going to use 4 trios of weak/medium/strong attacks and 6 weapons. That'll be 52 cards in total. Minus the ideally ~8 cards that are queued up or in use during the combo, and the 7 hand slots, we get a pool of 37 cards to draw from. Out of these 37 cards, there are 2-4 "good" cards that we want to draw. So the chance of being able to continue the combo is ~11% at best, and that's just for one card at a time. The total number of cards does get smaller and smaller until the reshuffle, but I highly doubt anyone could even reach that point without dropping the combo.
If we want to see all special attacks in a single combo, Sagi will need at least 4 turns, Milly will need at least 3 turns, and Guillo will need at least 7 turns. That's at least 14 turns where we need to make sure to gain enough MP. The combo will end up being about 100 cards long if we're generous. Maintaining a lucky streak for that long seems astronomically unlikely, even when factoring in spirit draws.
i got the hang of the first games gameplay right around after you beat the Wind God boss and you get kalas fifth class level up it’s also when lyude joins that’s the point when you can really start pulling off combos and understanding how Pairs work you do get a lot of cards and it gets harder to pick out a specific card but your deck should be made in a way where you have plenty of attack cards so you can pull off combos you should never have your strategy be based around using one specific card anyways i haven’t played the second game yet so i can’t say anything about that yet but if you playing the first game and your not liking the combat at least wait untill after The wind god boss and see if you like it then before you drop it
I love this game!
is there a way to get the eng voice acting in origins on the switch? I miss it greatly...(do ex combos factor into this at all? like Milly's medium+ attack that sees her spin doesn't seem to be in any ex-combos, so unless you're going for hit count maybe its a bit of a dud card?
There is a mod that brings back the English voices, but you'll have to dump the game to set it up: gbatemp.net/threads/baten-kaitos-hd-remaster-dub-restore-effort.639640/page-8#post-10297758
Canyon Wind (2+) is not part of any EX combo as you said, but it's still a very good attack it its own right. It adds 3 variable element hits for some decent extra damage from weapon cards, and you can use it to build more MP.
Can I ask, do I have to use the mountain apples to get the hp bonus or is it just active while they're in my quest magnus?
Just having them in your quest magnus is enough.
best jrpg ever :)
Offtopic but I Started the game over a week ago, about 13 hours in (Lava Cave Boss fight).
Without spoilers how do I get the True Ending of this game?
At some point on disc 2, one of the kids at the orphanage will provide a list of quests you can take on in any order. 3 of them are mandatory to advance the story, but there are also 4 optional ones including "Wacho's latest dirt". To get the true ending, you need to complete all 4 optional quests, and when a choice comes up on any of them, always choose mercy.
@@Exchord Thank you
Beat the game earlier today getting the best ending, 10/10
Have to disagree with the armor magnus -- they're _very_ useful. The right armor magnus can make an opponent's attacks trivial. Plus, some have special effects, like restoring you to full health or make it so you're nigh impossible to hit.
Also, another bit of advice not mentioned here - _read your field guide._ It fills in automatically, and it tells you everything you need to know about the enemies of the area, including strengths and weaknesses, so you can set your decks accordingly.
Wait is it any particularly difficult?
Sorry for the late reply. It is generally known for being much more difficult than the first game, by virtue of being fast-paced and having very strong and quick enemies, and that's not just the bosses. Other reasons are the knockdown mechanic and the delay between card selection and the actual turn, which allows heals to be canceled through death or unconsciousness. To overcome these difficulties, players need to frequently check the queue in the top-left corner and the delay gauges below the HP bars in addition to the magnus and MP display. This is a challenge in itself when everything moves so quickly. If it's any indication, the GameCube original has an "easy mode" in the options menu that makes battles slower than normal mode. (It pauses delay gauges during actions and prevents anyone from acting during card selection.)