I think you can do a bit of both, vertically invest in supports, stunners that are universally good, like Qingyi and Lucy, and horizontally invest in DPS, for example one DPS for each element so you have coverage for all weaknesses. Then you can swap your OP supports around to boost your DPS
totally agree... Qingyi M1 is soo freaking good, and she can go with any attacker. I've napped Ellens and Zhu Yuans engines though, since they can be used with other attackers of same element
Agreed, even if it's early vertically investing on supports is good for the long run. Taking ruan mei, sparkle and robin as example, they're damn strong with vertical investment.
yeah, this guy seems too new to gacha games(I think he said he has 4 years in gacha games in another video, which is a pretty short time compared to must of us) and tries to go competitive without realizing you can go fun and chill and still competivie as an f2p. Most people dont really know this kind of philosophy so they tend to go in certain specific way of playing and follow it as a rule to "maximize" their account. From my experience I would say non of these types of investment are a good way of playing gacha games, in fact, they are the worse possible ways to put in your mind as a gamer... tbh i dont think their effort for meta is bad, and their contribution to the games he is in is huge, its just that there is something strange with speed runner's mentality of what is a game... but well, thats his way of playing the games and enjoying them, nothing we can actually do. At least he is helping others in some way.
My recommendation, whether you're investing more horizontally or vertically, is to invest not into characters, but into teams. Your shiny new M6 Miyabi that you're saving for, whenever she comes out, might end up pretty underwhelming if you end up playing her with poorly built M2 Anby and M1 Soukaku or something. First get the characters that you like, then get their best teams, and only once you have at least two good teams should you start investing vertically.
This is the way, what I learned from playing HSR is getting a carry first then get their supports/teammates, they generally release supports/teammates after a carry character, if that carry needs old support they will rerun the support banner at the same time as carry release.
Its always been like this with hoyo games... You go all in for 2 DPS and then invest everything into supports after... I bet you 100% that soukaku is gonna become more relevant than Ellen when a new Ice come out, the same goes for Nicole who will age better than Zhuyuan even if they are 4 stars
The amount of people who will ram their skulls into me whenever I say this on other platforms 😂 "noooo just let me play who I want" yea, that's the point, but they're too impatient to hear that part
I've been playing gachas since 2018. Teams is the name of the game. I prefer to build a few teams with one limited S-rank core and once I have at least 3 teams of one limited S-rank core, I will look into vertically investing these teams by pulling another limited S-rank to pair well with the limited S-rank core. Like right now for me Qingyi is good for my Zhu Yuan but I don't consider Qingyi a core to make a Zhu Yuan team work because of Anby so I'm saving for another core unit to build a team around like Burnice with Piper and Lucy
0:00 What is horizontal and vertical investment? 1:08 Types of players 4:33 Example timeline for horizontal vs vertical investment 9:17 The middle ground
All I say to people who water this discussion down to "roll for want" is: you forfeit the right to complain if you find the game difficult. If play for fun = deliberately ignore all tutorials, guides, and concepts like balanced team building = have difficulty earning rewards = express unfulfilled desire to earn rewards = conclude game is not fun, then I will point and laugh at you.
@@Yenrei I do agree. If you find it difficult and don't find fun in that... leave. We don't have to chain ourselves to a game which mechanics we don't like. I started playing HSR because I wanted to roll Sparkle and here I am, playing ZZZ as well. It's not "watering down", rather, a reminder to enjoy the game. Roll for the characters you find appealing and, again, have fun! Not everything has to be min-maxing.
@@HumbertoHernandez thats just it though, if you dont do a little bit of min maxing, you likely wont be able to clear shiyu much, and then that might lead you to not have enough pulls to get someone you want, you see how that works? thats why i think even if youre just pulling for waifus, you should at least do the minimum and build them properly with their correct teams. thats my take on it though.
@@Ixs4i But you know what's the issue? I do enjoy that part of the game quite a bit, enough for me to like the game. There are people that WON'T, and that's ok. Some people have more patience than others and can save Polys from other sources. HSR and ZZZ are pretty generous handing over premium currency.
With Genshin and HSR I would go horizontal to establish teams for every element, then vertical with the clearly stronger units. Like your Neuvillette, Arlecchino, Acheron, Firefly, etc.
@@yueguifanIn hsr they destroyed the element concept. You have acheron, boothill, ff and feixio who ignore elements. Dunno about genshin. I still dont have fire and phys teams and doing fine clearing all content and max stars.
I'm the type of guy that prefer futures proof method such as for Dps, I only pull M0R0 while for Support M2R0, Because as we all can collective agree, Support tend to be future proof and majority of them have crack M2. For W-Engine, it doesn't do me fancy because for some reason ALL standard weapon is so good and only have below 10% different from signature for ZZZ.
You should always start horizontally investing. Then when you find your favorite teams, vertically invest them. Always vertically invest support first as they are more flexible, can be swap around teams. Vertically invest DPS only if they are really fun and your absolute favorite character. Edit: But if you already can clear the hardest content with the characters you got, highly suggest to always horizontally invest, get more characters. As the case with me in Genshin Impact. What's the use of getting constellations if you can max star abyss. Just get more fun and varied gameplay characters instead. Although, if you want to vertically invest, just go with their signature weapon, anymore than that is overkill tbh.
I'll just say for HSR I was a monthly player for a year and I full cleared with horizontal investment. I didn't pull for LCs for 1 year. Only characters. With so much elemental coverage and teamp comps, I'm able to use whatever is needed. Started to verically invest because I have so many options.
Assuming we don’t see direct power creep within the span of Ellen’s first rerun, I’ll be pulling Ellen herself and settling with investing vertically into her, Zhu Yuan and Qingyi. I already have all the tools on my account for her to shine so it just makes sense (Lycaon at M1 & Soukaku at M4). I’ll be waiting to see what supports come out but I don’t think I’ll be pulling on almost every banner like I was in Genshin.
I went for Qingyi M1 today... and what a difference it makes! The full voltage at start is really nice, lets you get the 15% DEF shred right from the start, but those 30% faster voltage charge just makes everything line up so much better, much more often i get the opportunity to "let go" of the charged attack to make it a dodge counter
@@WhiteTrashDiva I was considering doing this too! Especially after hearing about what Burnice and Caesar have to offer. I’d be more interested if I had the ability to pull both of them but I don’t think that’s gonna happen. Plus, Qingyi has been such a good addition to my account and I absolutely love Zhu Yuan too.
i play this game just because i saw miyabi in cbt, so miyabi team is a must.. before that i need 2 teams to clear endgame content, so zhuyuan teams and piper-koleda team will be carry me through my journey until miyabi release. that’s my simple strat 😅
I love this being a long-term player with wide investment, it felt so terrible in genshin for the longest time but seems to be working out in the end. The idea of w-engines for helping last longer should help mitigate issues in zzz so thanks for the idea. Still want my Jane for a disorder team along with my hypercarry.
Vertical investment only works for broken support or sub dps from my personal experience, i.e getting E6 Robin is better than E6 Acheron or C6 Yelan is better than a C6 DPS As these units will ALWAYS be worth it for your team, regardless if what units you have.
Qingyi M1 does more for your dps damage than any dps own M1 so far... and it's not locked to the dps, but on a universal stunner who can go with any attacker
This is a game with dating/hangout elements. This is the game where you ignore meta and pull for your girl. If you don't you will miss out on fun interactions.
I think you're misrepresenting horizontal and vertical investment. I mean, vertical investment isn't a means to guarantee S rank in Shiyu or to protect yourself from powercreep, since M0W0 limited agents will be good enough to clear for a long time if they're well built and you play well, so players can be horizontal investers who clears everything. The reason to choose between one or the other is a playstyle preference. Some people don't care to use many characters and usually bench them, so vertical investment suits them better because that brings more comfort and power, also good for speedrunning and to honor their favorite characters. But other people like variety and love to test different characters, so they enjoy horizontal investment instead.
Tbf If u vertically invest till a c6 ur character would probably still be relevant throughout the game yes power creep exists but there's no way another character with c2 is power creeping another character with their c6
Another aspect that could be good to cover and analyze is Bangboo horizontal vs vertical investment since we can't really expend money getting them and also taking into the account the resources spent on leveling them.
Do we really think that the endgame of ZZZ will be so hard that you need vertical investment to S-clear Shiyu 17? From what I can tell many players who have gotten past IK50 are able to do it, even low spenders. Both Genshin and HSR are more "horizontally focused" when it comes to meta as well. I have been starting to do a little vertical investment in Genshin the last year, mainly because I feel like all the roles I need are already filled so I might as well get some of my more universal supports/off fielders some vertical investment (like Nahida c2, Furina c2). I could still clear 36* without that but it's mostly from lack of feeling the need to pull every new character. I also feel like the advice to pull W-Engines at the end is a bit questionable. Neither Zhu Yuan's or Qingyi's engine are all that spectacular. Ellen's is broken, but only for her. It's feeling a lot like HSR where the lightcone is meant for that character specifically and most other characters can't make good use of it. I'd be very selective with which W-Engine's I pull.
It’s not physically possible to go all in on every banner in the first few months of a games life without paying money, so best way is to actually pick one or two you like and save for them instead of rolling on everything/chasing meta. Like I’ve wanted the SOC girls since first raw them in the “person you are calling is in a hollow” video so have saved for them every since and am currently on 235 limiteds for them. Helps that I enjoy playing Piper and Lucy with their battle styles so they will slot in with each other
Welkin moon only is the move. By far the most bang for your buck, and the most fun. You can pull every other character or so, depending on your luck, enough to keep it fresh, and enough to make endgame a challenge that you may or may not clear (and if you don’t, you’re really not missing out). You get the experience of choosing which characters you need, which you don’t, and which you’re only getting if you win the 50/50, and that’s a good thing. And once in a while, if you Really like a character and they are somewhat future proof, you can still go for a dupe or a weapon if it will make them shine.
i would argue FOR Qingyi M1 . . her M1 gives your dps more enhancement, over the dps own single mindscape. And she can team up with any attacker so the mindscape isn't locked to to the dps. getting a full charge of voltage to start, and charging 30% faster cuts alot down on her field time, and add 15% DEF shred on top. While i picked up Ellen and Zhu Yuan engines, went for Qingyi M1 instead. That 20% DMG on Qingyi engine gets really diluted by all the other DMG% buffs always in play. (engines, swing jazz disks, support buffs, dps core skills) so an additional 20% DMG buff might only result in 5-8% more final damage. For qingyi, I've found she stuns bosses before getting the 2nd voltage charged fully, so having a full charge and gaster charging lets me stun them fast, with full stun DMG%
lol being you has to suck. imagine starting a huge fight about ingame rewards claiming how unimportant these dumb games are and yet you are dumb enough to throw tons of money at these dumb unimportant games
I go horizontal in every game. Works for me even if it takes longer. Especially with Shiyu defense where I need two team comps with different elemental weaknesses. I also like swapping characters so I have more variety in gameplay.
I do a bit of both. in HSR when I already had a decent DPS for every element + 2 sustain, I transitioned to vertical investment starting with Firefly. I plan on doing the same on ZZZ.
I’m really frustrated by a lot of the base assumptions that are presented in this video; It is 100% possible for horizontal players to S clear content. Character dupes and S rank weapons are absolutely NOT needed to S rank content. This has been true for genshin for 4 years and I see no reason to believe it will be different in ZZZ. I also can not agree that the definition of a horizontal player is someone who aimlessly pulls every shiny new flavor of the month character. The idea that horizontal players can not be meta focused is flawed. Horizontal players know that skipping bait banners and focusing on pulling characters that are truely impactful to their account is key. A horizontal player who pulled C0 Ellen shouldn’t have any difficulty getting S rank in current content, and assuming that miyabi releases as an ice character, the smart move for a horizontal Ellen owner would be to skip miyabi and instead pull C0 copies of the new S rank supports, they should be able to continue to S rank miyabi advantage content with their C0 A rank weapons Ellen team This idea of needing to drop $2k in order to “easily clear” is extremely problematic and assumes a very low skill level for the player. This mentality is exactly why it’s so common for whales to struggle to clear content that f2p or low spenders clear easily A meta focused horizontal player should target 3-4 teams that have diverse element and playstyle types (like aoe vs single target) Even if these teams don’t have S rank weapons or dupes, or have slightly outdated units, they will still be able to S rank content by virtue of being flexible and having a team that works decently against each combat scenario
I do agree, but.. I think EOD is just giving general tips for people feeling lost or those who don't have plans or don't know what to do for the future banners. The expertise of a gacha player comes from various insights from people going for all those different paths AND, of course, personal experience learning how the game works. I'm definitely not going in further about cashing out, to me, this is a resource for people who can and want to do that, FUN-wise or just want to support the game. Patience will always be the f2p player's best friend.
I like vertical, not even for clearing purposes but just because when I find a character I like I want to take their potential to the highest I can. In zz I found a solution to have both horizontal and vertical scaling, and that is pulling for the stable banner. I'm getting 6 great characters, their weapons, and duplicates of both as well to reach their higher potential. And that's way cheaper than it would be if I tried to do that with limited characters, and I don't have to worry about luck, I know I will get what I want eventually if I am patient enough
Hah how funny. I literally am the middle ground eod was talking about xD I sometimes will go for eidolons/mindscapes for characters I really like and are good, but I try to go for any w engine that can be pretty good for future characters too
I always hold onto the ratio of 70/30. Invest 70% horizontally, and 30% vertically. Only getting character copies/exclusive weapon, when I'm sure the current meta will be stagnating for a while. Never puttting all my eggs in one basket.
This video feels really black or white. Vertical investment usually doesn't mean investing all the way to M6. It is more of making strategic decisions on which character with some form of mindscape investment can retain their value longer. Utility and Support units comes into mind, since these characters can be fielded across numerous teams. While DPS often have the team centered around them, and will easily phase out when the environment isn't in their favor. Like getting Qingyi to M1 is a good vertical investment as the faster build up allows her to be field into teams that have DPS which demands more field time etc. Also, due to the way gacha games are made, investing horizontally all the way isn't really "cost effective" too. Each new character doesn't come fully built. There are additional investment costs like levelling, gearing etc. Which those resources could be used to further improve the current team. And M0 characters as so easily replaceable.
dont worry, the guy seems kinda new to gacha games, he needs more experience as a gamer as a whole. At least he is doing what he can, lets hope he can actually learn more to improve this kind of content that seems incomplete by his lack of knowledge in games
Nah this is dumb, getting Zhu Yuan's W-Engine would be significantly worse than just getting her. Same with Ellen, or Qingye. The characters themselves are so much better than the engines. That's basically saying to get weapons in Genshin over the characters. If you're good you can easily S clear with horizontal investment. If you get good support characters you don't have to get every character of a team as much, and then you can just get broken DPS that is just released. You could get a w-engine, but these games are always made to be able to S Clear even with a 4* weapon. Horizontal investment should be A Clear maybe first meta and then S Clear every meta after.
I kind of get the feeling that if you want to get a medium between horizontal and vertical investment then you should go for Anomaly characters. That would minimize the number of characters you have to invest in, while maximizing the number of teams you can make For example Jane Doe as a physical anomaly would work great in a team with either Grace, or Burnice. And that covers 3 elemental weaknesses that you can take advantage of. Eventually Miyabi will come out and she’d also go well with Grace, Jane or Burnice. Then we’d just need an ether anomaly character. You’re already covered with a good electric, ice, ether and Fire support as well. We should hopefully get a physical support or defense character soon too. That’s my plan at least, but I also just really enjoy the gameplay for anomaly, watching that circle fill up and cause disorder is very satisfying.
You can easily S-rank full clear everything with just M0+-R1 It's pointless going for more than M0 if you goal is just comfy clearing every content at maximum rewards. Horizontal all the way.
I have 2 stacked teams now with Ellen and Zhu Yuan. Now I wanna spend some time building my Qingyi and Doggo and maybe get Nicole some damage. Soukaku is also built. Now I’m just waiting for the next Fire and Electric Attackers and maybe a premium Support for Physical
M1 Zhu Yuan + Anby + Nicole. Grace + Jane Doe + Seth. This will be my team for a while. I love ZY and JD gameplay so I won't get bored with them for a while (at least till 2.0).
I dont normally pull weapons/w-engines unless they are really good. Like Zhu Yuans w-engine gives 15% crit rate and 50 something percent crit damage for attack units. That is pretty crazy and to me sounds like you can use that weapon on other characters
TL;DR IMO Vertical investment is still good for long term full clear, but you need to focus on the right variety of small chara pool, and fully invested. As someone who played genshin with "vertical investment", i think there is an argument to be made to spend fully on small pool of characters to max Conste and Weapon. Even 1.x version character is still viable. The best? Maybe not, but I believe S clear shall still be achieveable. HSR is different because it's turn based so powercreep is too real, but that's a different story.
I am f2p/low spender in several different games and I always go for the vertical strategy on the characters I like, although for me that just means getting a character and their signature weapon. Takes a little longer in the short-term to S rank everything because I have one really good team and one mediocre team, but it has paid off a lot for me in Genshin and HSR because I get to smash content with the characters I really like. The main reason I don't like going wide is I just don't have the resources to build a bunch of units. Doesn't make much sense to me to pull for a lot of different characters that you won't be able to build well because you are spending all your energy just leveling them and getting their talents. I would much rather use that energy to farm better gear. I actually feel like going wide as f2p/low spender is a bad idea if you care about progression because of the limited resources you have to build characters. In ZZZ specifically I skipped Ellen completely since I didn't get Lycaon from the standard banner. Instead, I waited for the next units so I could build a premium team. I got ZY and her W-Engine and now I have Qingyi. I am going to try to get Qingyi's W-Engine which I should be able to unless I lose the 75/25. The ZY team is really fun for me so I know I will be playing this team for a long time, even if it falls out of the "meta".
My rule of thumb is, 101% of the time a character's weapon/w-engine would boost what they are good at but never cover what they are lacking. But a new character would. It's like playing anomaly without the 2nd element. You will never proc disorder.
I just play the factions im interested in. I love pubsec so I got M2 Zhu and M2P1 Qingyi, with M6 Nicole. I love the faction so i wanted these characters to be as strong as possible. My next big investment is section 6 for Miyabi who I hope to get at least M4P1 depending on how good it is, I already have a M6 Sokaku so all i need left is a stunner that either belongs to section 6 or just a better limited stunner that comes out in the future.
From playing multiple gachas competitively, I think it just depends on the game. Games with extreme powercreep will need horizontal investment. Games with moderate to low powercreep, it's better to get high invested units that you USE instead of 10 more sitting in your inventory
I’ve been (unconsciously?) gravitating towards vertical investment, but the game is saying “NOPE! You are horizontal” $100 and I only pulled ZY 2x, and then again $100 and I only pulled QY once 😂 M6’d Anton and Nicole in the process. So yeah, Vertical by intent, horizontal by luck 💔
Have you even play Shiyu defence? You can S every floor with ease with minimal investment in Ellen and Zhu, saying that you need to invest in c6 Ellen for S clear is crazy 4:14 Bro just called Genshin finantial model bad (4* characters from 1.0 is amongst the top used character for abyss clears in Genshin... For 4 years) Idk man your videos are usually good but this one has like worst takes known to humanity
I started with a slight vertical investment, pulling Zhuyuan and her weapon. Reason being is know how hard it is to build crit characters so i basically avoid them unless they have some gimmic that makes hem easier to build like for example Jingliu in HSR. But in 1.0 crit dps is basically the only competitive choice so i wanted to make Zhu Yuan easy. Now going horizontal as ill go into disorder teams and possibly mono anonaly teams which dont rely on crit. Going for Jane and then Burnice if i can. But if the characters stop interestig me ill go vertical. Like i have 0 intrest in the idol group and not that much interest in section 6. So come like 1.3-like 1.6 i may not be pulling.
I think being a vertical player it is enough to get a strong support and stunner, which can be updated every six months - a year, and a hypercarry. Roll a signature for him and maybe copies (up to 2 maximum) and update him every 3-4 months. But vertical gameplay is pretty boring, doing the same optimized rotation over and over again for 3-4 months
As long as Ellen and Zhu Yuan are decent enough to keep going for a decent amount of time, I will be happy. I think it will take a while for Zhu Yuan to get power crept considering the lack of Ether characters so far, but we'll see.
Unless there is someting that I'm missing, there is no way a strickly f2p can gather enough encrypted tapes to C max 1 character + the engine. On 20 days cycles? No way. If you save up for 2-3 months then sure, but the game hasn't even been out for that long.
I don’t really think this is accurate (at least not completely). Vertical investment into a character usually means they just ignore the meta if you max them. The pros for vertical are consistent results with a well practiced team, while the cons are just that you are screwed if you get bored of playing that character. Horizontal investment you get more characters to play with, but you have to practice and invest time/resources into building each. Personally, I prefer horizontal unless I really like the design and personality of a character. If I fail a 50/50 then whatever, there is usually a standard banner character that fulfills the same roll to a lesser extent. The only exception in zzz so far were the first 2 banners. But the current and next patch banners all have substitute characters.
Here unpopular opinion first two or three patch if you dont care about limited char just build your standard char to max even 4 star like anton you can have very decent clear on shiyu in today new shiyu that no longer have that bullshit buff that buff only ice and ether I have 6s clear when previous shiyu I got only 4s clear that how bullshit shiyu buff effect your char. And also when the game just open it the best time to build and use your standard banner because scaling isn’t too high.
Long term and full clear player but I never go vertical because the hoyo games so far have been perfectly balanced around the f2p level C0R0 since Genshin and anything more feels like cheating. I'm so autistic about this I always do single pulls by fear of pulling a dupe.
I went horizontal for HSR and was thinking of doing vertical for zzz but as I continue to play I realized I don't enjoy the combat and only care about the story so I'll just chill around
With Honkai and I intend to with Zenless my tactic is cover multi grounds with few characters and then focus on them. With Genshin I was horizontal but I am shifting to vertical.
I'm the kind of player who doesnt care about that last 50 premium currency in the endgame mode. Imma try to get that last 3 stars or S-rank but I aint gonna lose sleep for missing 50 primos/jades/tapes every other week
For genshin I think it was pretty easy to go vertical, pulling only archons c6r5 once per year, but I'm not sure if it will work in ZZZ, like pulling only void hunters, since I'm not sure they will work in the same team, also not sure how often new void hunters will release
For now at least I'm feeling that this game is a lot slower for you to fully build a character then others, what I'm trying to do is to first focus on only my 6 main characters and will only pull on someone that I'm 100% sure I really like and that fits and improve on my current teams and will only start to make a 3rd team when this 2 teams are mostly done. Different from what I did in previous games is that this time I'm trying to have enough to get a character and their weapons at the same time so I guess this fit as vertical investment? For now I only got Ellen and am saving up to get Burnice
I've secured 1 team of Zhu Yuan with her weapon, cinema 2 Qingyi with her weapon, and Cinema 6 Nicole with her sig, now I am gonna build an anomaly team and grab burnice in the future for it, that seems like the best option for most people, have 1 anomaly team and the other team is either burst dps or whatever the team for ellen's onfield time was called again
I spend money on things I enjoy, wouldn’t hurt spending 5-10$ a month to help catalyze resources on a game I love. spending responsibly is a more suitable messaging in my opinion. 😊
This i dont agree with feel free to spend responsibly just know your priorities and dont spend what you cant afford and think if u have something else you want more
Thanks for making this video. 🙏 I'm f2p who has been psychologically burned by horizontal investment in gacha. Pulling characters I don't like in order to try and keep up, only for continous powercreep to happen. And it's the worst when I actually get a character I really like, but I can't use it anymore. That experience caused me to quit Honkai Star Rail. For this reason, I am playing ZZZ with the intention of trying out vertical investment. Your idea about collecting meta W-engines is awesome. The video is really helpful. Thanks. 😊
I don't know about pulling for wengines tho since Im an f2p, I really cant. Well if youre lucky and get them in one 10 pulls then its okay, but I think for me pulling for characters is worth it.
bro, the game gives us 100 to 130 pulls every patch, which is enough for a new guaranteed limited with just a little investment (if you are really unlucky and lose all 50/50 on max pitty). In your timeline if I can clear 2 patches tier S and 1 patch tier A with same investment, I can easily pull another e1s1 after 3 patches. I don't really see reason to use horizontal investment, specially because you won't have enough resources to level 2 units every patch.
You must be new to gacha to assume 100-130 pulls per patch. Its more like 70-80 pulls with ~3 big patches at 100-110 pulls (x.0 version opening patch, anniversary patch, endgame update patches). This is the same for all Hoyo games. Monthly pass can add ~24 pulls per patch + 8 pulls from BP. So yea unless you spend, there is no way you can average 1 guarantee per patch.
@@solemityprudent1869 yea but, even in this patch alone you'll get 110 pulls. Same as hsr, you get around 100 pulls each patch. This isn't the case for genshin, which they average 70 pulls per patch
To add my point, as you said usually the endgame mode will endorse/buff the rate up limited character for that patch so it gives more reason to horizontal investment No one said you can't invest plenty into just 1 character, if they are the love of your life then go E6S5 them, go nuts
Have you played HSR, because that's pretty clearly not the trend with its DPS characters. Genshin, 100%. Honkai Star Rail, absolutely not. It's unclear if ZZZ is going to be more like Genshin or HSR at this point, or tbh, much of what's going to be relevant. (E.g. given the number of combat missions that have a 'keep your entire party alive' rather than a time clear objective, this game miiiiggghttttt actually end up being different from the other two where defensive utility is as important as pure DPS.)
@@Yevievt people still clear content with blade in HSR maybe not 0 cycle but still clear nonetheless and genshin well lets say i can just rollface any content with 1.0 char only
@@ganyumaindayone1112 The drop off between characters like Blade and Jing Yuan compared to Firefly and Acheron is pretty noticeable, and at this rate, half a year later, they're not going to be clearing without some killer investment. They still are decent for now, but there's been a pretty steady amount of powercreep in HSR. (Compare Seele to Jingliu to Acheron. ) Blade miiiigghttt get a resurgence if they include some HP oriented supports, but a lot of the old DPS units kind of already have gotten as buffed as they reasonably could be. HSR *could* slow down, but it benefits them more not to. I'm pretty sure the main reason Genshin doesn't do powercreep is that Genshin's endgame isn't the focus (exploration is). There's a lot of ways to use new characters outside of the Abyss. In HSR, there really isn't much to do with new characters outside of the endgame (and there isn't realy a true "playstyle" for any character). so they need that powercreep to sell them to you. ZZZ could avoid powercreep because, unlike HSR (and tbh, Genshin), characters legitimately feel unique and different to use. So, they could sell new characters based on play style. They also seem to be leaning very heavily into.... aesthetic appeal to market characters. But, then again, the easiest way to sell new characters in a combat-focused game is to make it so the old characters just don't cut it anymore
Not paying anything to gacha games will make you a better person, trust me. I’ve seen what people go through just to be able to show off. We, on the other hand, should be saving our goddamn lives and survive the real world first!
Ellen m0r0 and zhu. M0 and without robocop(:d) can clear shiyu for S. Now no need to get m6 , only if u really like character or its overpowered Waiting for jane m0r0 and skip next 1.2/1.3 Imao
I think you can do a bit of both, vertically invest in supports, stunners that are universally good, like Qingyi and Lucy, and horizontally invest in DPS, for example one DPS for each element so you have coverage for all weaknesses. Then you can swap your OP supports around to boost your DPS
totally agree... Qingyi M1 is soo freaking good, and she can go with any attacker.
I've napped Ellens and Zhu Yuans engines though, since they can be used with other attackers of same element
Agreed, even if it's early vertically investing on supports is good for the long run. Taking ruan mei, sparkle and robin as example, they're damn strong with vertical investment.
Yes. This
yeah, this guy seems too new to gacha games(I think he said he has 4 years in gacha games in another video, which is a pretty short time compared to must of us) and tries to go competitive without realizing you can go fun and chill and still competivie as an f2p. Most people dont really know this kind of philosophy so they tend to go in certain specific way of playing and follow it as a rule to "maximize" their account. From my experience I would say non of these types of investment are a good way of playing gacha games, in fact, they are the worse possible ways to put in your mind as a gamer... tbh i dont think their effort for meta is bad, and their contribution to the games he is in is huge, its just that there is something strange with speed runner's mentality of what is a game... but well, thats his way of playing the games and enjoying them, nothing we can actually do. At least he is helping others in some way.
My recommendation, whether you're investing more horizontally or vertically, is to invest not into characters, but into teams. Your shiny new M6 Miyabi that you're saving for, whenever she comes out, might end up pretty underwhelming if you end up playing her with poorly built M2 Anby and M1 Soukaku or something.
First get the characters that you like, then get their best teams, and only once you have at least two good teams should you start investing vertically.
This is the way, what I learned from playing HSR is getting a carry first then get their supports/teammates, they generally release supports/teammates after a carry character, if that carry needs old support they will rerun the support banner at the same time as carry release.
Its always been like this with hoyo games... You go all in for 2 DPS and then invest everything into supports after... I bet you 100% that soukaku is gonna become more relevant than Ellen when a new Ice come out, the same goes for Nicole who will age better than Zhuyuan even if they are 4 stars
The amount of people who will ram their skulls into me whenever I say this on other platforms 😂 "noooo just let me play who I want" yea, that's the point, but they're too impatient to hear that part
Are you da wei?
I've been playing gachas since 2018. Teams is the name of the game. I prefer to build a few teams with one limited S-rank core and once I have at least 3 teams of one limited S-rank core, I will look into vertically investing these teams by pulling another limited S-rank to pair well with the limited S-rank core. Like right now for me Qingyi is good for my Zhu Yuan but I don't consider Qingyi a core to make a Zhu Yuan team work because of Anby so I'm saving for another core unit to build a team around like Burnice with Piper and Lucy
0:00 What is horizontal and vertical investment?
1:08 Types of players
4:33 Example timeline for horizontal vs vertical investment
9:17 The middle ground
Play for fun
Roll for want
In the end of the day, it's a game, not a job :)
That's my advice.
All I say to people who water this discussion down to "roll for want" is: you forfeit the right to complain if you find the game difficult.
If play for fun = deliberately ignore all tutorials, guides, and concepts like balanced team building = have difficulty earning rewards = express unfulfilled desire to earn rewards = conclude game is not fun, then I will point and laugh at you.
@@Yenrei I do agree. If you find it difficult and don't find fun in that... leave. We don't have to chain ourselves to a game which mechanics we don't like.
I started playing HSR because I wanted to roll Sparkle and here I am, playing ZZZ as well.
It's not "watering down", rather, a reminder to enjoy the game. Roll for the characters you find appealing and, again, have fun! Not everything has to be min-maxing.
@@HumbertoHernandez thats just it though, if you dont do a little bit of min maxing, you likely wont be able to clear shiyu much, and then that might lead you to not have enough pulls to get someone you want, you see how that works? thats why i think even if youre just pulling for waifus, you should at least do the minimum and build them properly with their correct teams. thats my take on it though.
Yep, at the end of the day it's just a game
@@Ixs4i But you know what's the issue? I do enjoy that part of the game quite a bit, enough for me to like the game. There are people that WON'T, and that's ok. Some people have more patience than others and can save Polys from other sources. HSR and ZZZ are pretty generous handing over premium currency.
With Genshin and HSR I would go horizontal to establish teams for every element, then vertical with the clearly stronger units. Like your Neuvillette, Arlecchino, Acheron, Firefly, etc.
This is the way
@@yueguifanIn hsr they destroyed the element concept. You have acheron, boothill, ff and feixio who ignore elements. Dunno about genshin. I still dont have fire and phys teams and doing fine clearing all content and max stars.
@@kirillphomichov6101 For HSR it isn't so much elements rather than combat styles. FUA, Dot, break, etc. But you get the gist.
Losing 5050 in every limited banner investment have chosen me, not that I could choose it
I'm the type of guy that prefer futures proof method such as for Dps, I only pull M0R0 while for Support M2R0,
Because as we all can collective agree, Support tend to be future proof and majority of them have crack M2.
For W-Engine, it doesn't do me fancy because for some reason ALL standard weapon is so good and only have below 10% different from signature for ZZZ.
I would say they just could last longer, but they, in most cases, get power crept as well, they just tend to still be more viable
If you're a horizontal investor, you can get weapon on rerun when a character is proven to be staple of the meta.
You should always start horizontally investing. Then when you find your favorite teams, vertically invest them. Always vertically invest support first as they are more flexible, can be swap around teams. Vertically invest DPS only if they are really fun and your absolute favorite character.
Edit: But if you already can clear the hardest content with the characters you got, highly suggest to always horizontally invest, get more characters. As the case with me in Genshin Impact. What's the use of getting constellations if you can max star abyss. Just get more fun and varied gameplay characters instead. Although, if you want to vertically invest, just go with their signature weapon, anymore than that is overkill tbh.
I'll just say for HSR I was a monthly player for a year and I full cleared with horizontal investment. I didn't pull for LCs for 1 year. Only characters. With so much elemental coverage and teamp comps, I'm able to use whatever is needed.
Started to verically invest because I have so many options.
Assuming we don’t see direct power creep within the span of Ellen’s first rerun, I’ll be pulling Ellen herself and settling with investing vertically into her, Zhu Yuan and Qingyi. I already have all the tools on my account for her to shine so it just makes sense (Lycaon at M1 & Soukaku at M4). I’ll be waiting to see what supports come out but I don’t think I’ll be pulling on almost every banner like I was in Genshin.
I went for Qingyi M1 today... and what a difference it makes!
The full voltage at start is really nice, lets you get the 15% DEF shred right from the start, but those 30% faster voltage charge just makes everything line up so much better, much more often i get the opportunity to "let go" of the charged attack to make it a dodge counter
@@WhiteTrashDiva I was considering doing this too! Especially after hearing about what Burnice and Caesar have to offer. I’d be more interested if I had the ability to pull both of them but I don’t think that’s gonna happen. Plus, Qingyi has been such a good addition to my account and I absolutely love Zhu Yuan too.
Much like in Genshin and HSR
Horizontally invest in the first year, start vertically investing for the chars you love with reruns
i play this game just because i saw miyabi in cbt, so miyabi team is a must.. before that i need 2 teams to clear endgame content, so zhuyuan teams and piper-koleda team will be carry me through my journey until miyabi release. that’s my simple strat 😅
I love this being a long-term player with wide investment, it felt so terrible in genshin for the longest time but seems to be working out in the end. The idea of w-engines for helping last longer should help mitigate issues in zzz so thanks for the idea. Still want my Jane for a disorder team along with my hypercarry.
Vertical investment only works for broken support or sub dps from my personal experience, i.e getting E6 Robin is better than E6 Acheron or C6 Yelan is better than a C6 DPS
As these units will ALWAYS be worth it for your team, regardless if what units you have.
Qingyi M1 does more for your dps damage than any dps own M1 so far... and it's not locked to the dps, but on a universal stunner who can go with any attacker
You're just repeating him@@WhiteTrashDiva
This is a game with dating/hangout elements. This is the game where you ignore meta and pull for your girl. If you don't you will miss out on fun interactions.
I think you're misrepresenting horizontal and vertical investment. I mean, vertical investment isn't a means to guarantee S rank in Shiyu or to protect yourself from powercreep, since M0W0 limited agents will be good enough to clear for a long time if they're well built and you play well, so players can be horizontal investers who clears everything. The reason to choose between one or the other is a playstyle preference. Some people don't care to use many characters and usually bench them, so vertical investment suits them better because that brings more comfort and power, also good for speedrunning and to honor their favorite characters. But other people like variety and love to test different characters, so they enjoy horizontal investment instead.
Tbf If u vertically invest till a c6 ur character would probably still be relevant throughout the game yes power creep exists but there's no way another character with c2 is power creeping another character with their c6
Another aspect that could be good to cover and analyze is Bangboo horizontal vs vertical investment since we can't really expend money getting them and also taking into the account the resources spent on leveling them.
Do we really think that the endgame of ZZZ will be so hard that you need vertical investment to S-clear Shiyu 17? From what I can tell many players who have gotten past IK50 are able to do it, even low spenders. Both Genshin and HSR are more "horizontally focused" when it comes to meta as well. I have been starting to do a little vertical investment in Genshin the last year, mainly because I feel like all the roles I need are already filled so I might as well get some of my more universal supports/off fielders some vertical investment (like Nahida c2, Furina c2). I could still clear 36* without that but it's mostly from lack of feeling the need to pull every new character.
I also feel like the advice to pull W-Engines at the end is a bit questionable. Neither Zhu Yuan's or Qingyi's engine are all that spectacular. Ellen's is broken, but only for her. It's feeling a lot like HSR where the lightcone is meant for that character specifically and most other characters can't make good use of it. I'd be very selective with which W-Engine's I pull.
It’s not physically possible to go all in on every banner in the first few months of a games life without paying money, so best way is to actually pick one or two you like and save for them instead of rolling on everything/chasing meta. Like I’ve wanted the SOC girls since first raw them in the “person you are calling is in a hollow” video so have saved for them every since and am currently on 235 limiteds for them. Helps that I enjoy playing Piper and Lucy with their battle styles so they will slot in with each other
Welkin moon only is the move. By far the most bang for your buck, and the most fun. You can pull every other character or so, depending on your luck, enough to keep it fresh, and enough to make endgame a challenge that you may or may not clear (and if you don’t, you’re really not missing out). You get the experience of choosing which characters you need, which you don’t, and which you’re only getting if you win the 50/50, and that’s a good thing. And once in a while, if you Really like a character and they are somewhat future proof, you can still go for a dupe or a weapon if it will make them shine.
i would argue FOR Qingyi M1 . . her M1 gives your dps more enhancement, over the dps own single mindscape. And she can team up with any attacker so the mindscape isn't locked to to the dps.
getting a full charge of voltage to start, and charging 30% faster cuts alot down on her field time, and add 15% DEF shred on top.
While i picked up Ellen and Zhu Yuan engines, went for Qingyi M1 instead. That 20% DMG on Qingyi engine gets really diluted by all the other DMG% buffs always in play. (engines, swing jazz disks, support buffs, dps core skills) so an additional 20% DMG buff might only result in 5-8% more final damage.
For qingyi, I've found she stuns bosses before getting the 2nd voltage charged fully, so having a full charge and gaster charging lets me stun them fast, with full stun DMG%
lol being you has to suck. imagine starting a huge fight about ingame rewards claiming how unimportant these dumb games are and yet you are dumb enough to throw tons of money at these dumb unimportant games
I go horizontal in every game. Works for me even if it takes longer. Especially with Shiyu defense where I need two team comps with different elemental weaknesses. I also like swapping characters so I have more variety in gameplay.
I do a bit of both. in HSR when I already had a decent DPS for every element + 2 sustain, I transitioned to vertical investment starting with Firefly.
I plan on doing the same on ZZZ.
I’m really frustrated by a lot of the base assumptions that are presented in this video;
It is 100% possible for horizontal players to S clear content. Character dupes and S rank weapons are absolutely NOT needed to S rank content. This has been true for genshin for 4 years and I see no reason to believe it will be different in ZZZ.
I also can not agree that the definition of a horizontal player is someone who aimlessly pulls every shiny new flavor of the month character.
The idea that horizontal players can not be meta focused is flawed. Horizontal players know that skipping bait banners and focusing on pulling characters that are truely impactful to their account is key. A horizontal player who pulled C0 Ellen shouldn’t have any difficulty getting S rank in current content, and assuming that miyabi releases as an ice character, the smart move for a horizontal Ellen owner would be to skip miyabi and instead pull C0 copies of the new S rank supports, they should be able to continue to S rank miyabi advantage content with their C0 A rank weapons Ellen team
This idea of needing to drop $2k in order to “easily clear” is extremely problematic and assumes a very low skill level for the player. This mentality is exactly why it’s so common for whales to struggle to clear content that f2p or low spenders clear easily
A meta focused horizontal player should target 3-4 teams that have diverse element and playstyle types (like aoe vs single target)
Even if these teams don’t have S rank weapons or dupes, or have slightly outdated units, they will still be able to S rank content by virtue of being flexible and having a team that works decently against each combat scenario
I do agree, but.. I think EOD is just giving general tips for people feeling lost or those who don't have plans or don't know what to do for the future banners. The expertise of a gacha player comes from various insights from people going for all those different paths AND, of course, personal experience learning how the game works.
I'm definitely not going in further about cashing out, to me, this is a resource for people who can and want to do that, FUN-wise or just want to support the game. Patience will always be the f2p player's best friend.
I like vertical, not even for clearing purposes but just because when I find a character I like I want to take their potential to the highest I can. In zz I found a solution to have both horizontal and vertical scaling, and that is pulling for the stable banner. I'm getting 6 great characters, their weapons, and duplicates of both as well to reach their higher potential. And that's way cheaper than it would be if I tried to do that with limited characters, and I don't have to worry about luck, I know I will get what I want eventually if I am patient enough
Yes, very smart thinking!
Hah how funny. I literally am the middle ground eod was talking about xD I sometimes will go for eidolons/mindscapes for characters I really like and are good, but I try to go for any w engine that can be pretty good for future characters too
I always hold onto the ratio of 70/30. Invest 70% horizontally, and 30% vertically.
Only getting character copies/exclusive weapon, when I'm sure the current meta will be stagnating for a while.
Never puttting all my eggs in one basket.
This video feels really black or white. Vertical investment usually doesn't mean investing all the way to M6. It is more of making strategic decisions on which character with some form of mindscape investment can retain their value longer.
Utility and Support units comes into mind, since these characters can be fielded across numerous teams. While DPS often have the team centered around them, and will easily phase out when the environment isn't in their favor.
Like getting Qingyi to M1 is a good vertical investment as the faster build up allows her to be field into teams that have DPS which demands more field time etc.
Also, due to the way gacha games are made, investing horizontally all the way isn't really "cost effective" too. Each new character doesn't come fully built. There are additional investment costs like levelling, gearing etc. Which those resources could be used to further improve the current team. And M0 characters as so easily replaceable.
dont worry, the guy seems kinda new to gacha games, he needs more experience as a gamer as a whole. At least he is doing what he can, lets hope he can actually learn more to improve this kind of content that seems incomplete by his lack of knowledge in games
Nah this is dumb, getting Zhu Yuan's W-Engine would be significantly worse than just getting her. Same with Ellen, or Qingye. The characters themselves are so much better than the engines. That's basically saying to get weapons in Genshin over the characters.
If you're good you can easily S clear with horizontal investment. If you get good support characters you don't have to get every character of a team as much, and then you can just get broken DPS that is just released. You could get a w-engine, but these games are always made to be able to S Clear even with a 4* weapon. Horizontal investment should be A Clear maybe first meta and then S Clear every meta after.
I kind of get the feeling that if you want to get a medium between horizontal and vertical investment then you should go for Anomaly characters. That would minimize the number of characters you have to invest in, while maximizing the number of teams you can make
For example Jane Doe as a physical anomaly would work great in a team with either Grace, or Burnice. And that covers 3 elemental weaknesses that you can take advantage of.
Eventually Miyabi will come out and she’d also go well with Grace, Jane or Burnice.
Then we’d just need an ether anomaly character.
You’re already covered with a good electric, ice, ether and Fire support as well. We should hopefully get a physical support or defense character soon too.
That’s my plan at least, but I also just really enjoy the gameplay for anomaly, watching that circle fill up and cause disorder is very satisfying.
You can easily S-rank full clear everything with just M0+-R1
It's pointless going for more than M0 if you goal is just comfy clearing every content at maximum rewards.
Horizontal all the way.
right. i was so confused watching because to me at least the game is extremely ez don’t see the point of spending
I have 2 stacked teams now with Ellen and Zhu Yuan. Now I wanna spend some time building my Qingyi and Doggo and maybe get Nicole some damage. Soukaku is also built. Now I’m just waiting for the next Fire and Electric Attackers and maybe a premium Support for Physical
M1 Zhu Yuan + Anby + Nicole.
Grace + Jane Doe + Seth.
This will be my team for a while. I love ZY and JD gameplay so I won't get bored with them for a while (at least till 2.0).
I dont normally pull weapons/w-engines unless they are really good. Like Zhu Yuans w-engine gives 15% crit rate and 50 something percent crit damage for attack units. That is pretty crazy and to me sounds like you can use that weapon on other characters
TL;DR IMO Vertical investment is still good for long term full clear, but you need to focus on the right variety of small chara pool, and fully invested.
As someone who played genshin with "vertical investment", i think there is an argument to be made to spend fully on small pool of characters to max Conste and Weapon.
Even 1.x version character is still viable.
The best? Maybe not, but I believe S clear shall still be achieveable.
HSR is different because it's turn based so powercreep is too real, but that's a different story.
I am f2p/low spender in several different games and I always go for the vertical strategy on the characters I like, although for me that just means getting a character and their signature weapon. Takes a little longer in the short-term to S rank everything because I have one really good team and one mediocre team, but it has paid off a lot for me in Genshin and HSR because I get to smash content with the characters I really like. The main reason I don't like going wide is I just don't have the resources to build a bunch of units. Doesn't make much sense to me to pull for a lot of different characters that you won't be able to build well because you are spending all your energy just leveling them and getting their talents. I would much rather use that energy to farm better gear. I actually feel like going wide as f2p/low spender is a bad idea if you care about progression because of the limited resources you have to build characters. In ZZZ specifically I skipped Ellen completely since I didn't get Lycaon from the standard banner. Instead, I waited for the next units so I could build a premium team. I got ZY and her W-Engine and now I have Qingyi. I am going to try to get Qingyi's W-Engine which I should be able to unless I lose the 75/25. The ZY team is really fun for me so I know I will be playing this team for a long time, even if it falls out of the "meta".
My rule of thumb is, 101% of the time a character's weapon/w-engine would boost what they are good at but never cover what they are lacking. But a new character would.
It's like playing anomaly without the 2nd element. You will never proc disorder.
Hi EOD, thank you for making this video. I think I asked a similar question in your discord and this was perfect. Keep making great guides!
Vertical atleast in other hoyo games, can carry you until the end of times if their early copies are strong. Firefly, raiden, etc.
I just play the factions im interested in. I love pubsec so I got M2 Zhu and M2P1 Qingyi, with M6 Nicole. I love the faction so i wanted these characters to be as strong as possible. My next big investment is section 6 for Miyabi who I hope to get at least M4P1 depending on how good it is, I already have a M6 Sokaku so all i need left is a stunner that either belongs to section 6 or just a better limited stunner that comes out in the future.
From playing multiple gachas competitively, I think it just depends on the game. Games with extreme powercreep will need horizontal investment. Games with moderate to low powercreep, it's better to get high invested units that you USE instead of 10 more sitting in your inventory
I’ve been (unconsciously?) gravitating towards vertical investment, but the game is saying “NOPE! You are horizontal” $100 and I only pulled ZY 2x, and then again $100 and I only pulled QY once 😂 M6’d Anton and Nicole in the process. So yeah, Vertical by intent, horizontal by luck 💔
Have you even play Shiyu defence?
You can S every floor with ease with minimal investment in Ellen and Zhu, saying that you need to invest in c6 Ellen for S clear is crazy
4:14 Bro just called Genshin finantial model bad (4* characters from 1.0 is amongst the top used character for abyss clears in Genshin... For 4 years)
Idk man your videos are usually good but this one has like worst takes known to humanity
I started with a slight vertical investment, pulling Zhuyuan and her weapon. Reason being is know how hard it is to build crit characters so i basically avoid them unless they have some gimmic that makes hem easier to build like for example Jingliu in HSR. But in 1.0 crit dps is basically the only competitive choice so i wanted to make Zhu Yuan easy.
Now going horizontal as ill go into disorder teams and possibly mono anonaly teams which dont rely on crit. Going for Jane and then Burnice if i can.
But if the characters stop interestig me ill go vertical. Like i have 0 intrest in the idol group and not that much interest in section 6. So come like 1.3-like 1.6 i may not be pulling.
I think being a vertical player it is enough to get a strong support and stunner, which can be updated every six months - a year, and a hypercarry. Roll a signature for him and maybe copies (up to 2 maximum) and update him every 3-4 months. But vertical gameplay is pretty boring, doing the same optimized rotation over and over again for 3-4 months
As long as Ellen and Zhu Yuan are decent enough to keep going for a decent amount of time, I will be happy. I think it will take a while for Zhu Yuan to get power crept considering the lack of Ether characters so far, but we'll see.
Unless there is someting that I'm missing, there is no way a strickly f2p can gather enough encrypted tapes to C max 1 character + the engine. On 20 days cycles? No way. If you save up for 2-3 months then sure, but the game hasn't even been out for that long.
I don’t really think this is accurate (at least not completely). Vertical investment into a character usually means they just ignore the meta if you max them.
The pros for vertical are consistent results with a well practiced team, while the cons are just that you are screwed if you get bored of playing that character. Horizontal investment you get more characters to play with, but you have to practice and invest time/resources into building each.
Personally, I prefer horizontal unless I really like the design and personality of a character. If I fail a 50/50 then whatever, there is usually a standard banner character that fulfills the same roll to a lesser extent. The only exception in zzz so far were the first 2 banners. But the current and next patch banners all have substitute characters.
Diagonal investment seems the key here
Here unpopular opinion first two or three patch if you dont care about limited char just build your standard char to max even 4 star like anton you can have very decent clear on shiyu in today new shiyu that no longer have that bullshit buff that buff only ice and ether I have 6s clear when previous shiyu I got only 4s clear that how bullshit shiyu buff effect your char. And also when the game just open it the best time to build and use your standard banner because scaling isn’t too high.
Long term and full clear player but I never go vertical because the hoyo games so far have been perfectly balanced around the f2p level C0R0 since Genshin and anything more feels like cheating. I'm so autistic about this I always do single pulls by fear of pulling a dupe.
I'm an A1/W1 player. Very enjoyable and low stress whaling.
I went horizontal for HSR and was thinking of doing vertical for zzz but as I continue to play I realized I don't enjoy the combat and only care about the story so I'll just chill around
Yo could you do a guide for Billy? I really don't know what discs may work best but i do have his engine and half the mindscape cinema
With Honkai and I intend to with Zenless my tactic is cover multi grounds with few characters and then focus on them. With Genshin I was horizontal but I am shifting to vertical.
I'm the kind of player who doesnt care about that last 50 premium currency in the endgame mode. Imma try to get that last 3 stars or S-rank but I aint gonna lose sleep for missing 50 primos/jades/tapes every other week
For genshin I think it was pretty easy to go vertical, pulling only archons c6r5 once per year, but I'm not sure if it will work in ZZZ, like pulling only void hunters, since I'm not sure they will work in the same team, also not sure how often new void hunters will release
For now at least I'm feeling that this game is a lot slower for you to fully build a character then others, what I'm trying to do is to first focus on only my 6 main characters and will only pull on someone that I'm 100% sure I really like and that fits and improve on my current teams and will only start to make a 3rd team when this 2 teams are mostly done.
Different from what I did in previous games is that this time I'm trying to have enough to get a character and their weapons at the same time so I guess this fit as vertical investment? For now I only got Ellen and am saving up to get Burnice
I've secured 1 team of Zhu Yuan with her weapon, cinema 2 Qingyi with her weapon, and Cinema 6 Nicole with her sig, now I am gonna build an anomaly team and grab burnice in the future for it, that seems like the best option for most people, have 1 anomaly team and the other team is either burst dps or whatever the team for ellen's onfield time was called again
Horizontal first, then vertical down the line. Only vertical first if you REALLY like that character and playstyle.
please don’t spend your money on a game guys! i’m sure there’s 1,000 other things you can spend it on
I spend money on things I enjoy, wouldn’t hurt spending 5-10$ a month to help catalyze resources on a game I love.
spending responsibly is a more suitable messaging in my opinion. 😊
Honestly, don't spend it all on a game. Your rent still need to be paid after all
This i dont agree with feel free to spend responsibly just know your priorities and dont spend what you cant afford and think if u have something else you want more
Yeah and that 1,000 things i would spend on is getting m6s6 Lycaon
spend it if you got it you only live once, be respectful and responsible to yourself
Unless you get shafted by the 50 / 50 as a F2P
if you're playing a gacha game as a non-whale and you're going for dupes, either the game is bad or you're playing it wrong.
Thanks for making this video. 🙏 I'm f2p who has been psychologically burned by horizontal investment in gacha.
Pulling characters I don't like in order to try and keep up, only for continous powercreep to happen. And it's the worst when I actually get a character I really like, but I can't use it anymore.
That experience caused me to quit Honkai Star Rail.
For this reason, I am playing ZZZ with the intention of trying out vertical investment.
Your idea about collecting meta W-engines is awesome. The video is really helpful. Thanks. 😊
I don't know about pulling for wengines tho since Im an f2p, I really cant. Well if youre lucky and get them in one 10 pulls then its okay, but I think for me pulling for characters is worth it.
Can you please do a HSR for this?
Middle ground = swipe😢
Multiple copies is a bait
bro, the game gives us 100 to 130 pulls every patch, which is enough for a new guaranteed limited with just a little investment (if you are really unlucky and lose all 50/50 on max pitty). In your timeline if I can clear 2 patches tier S and 1 patch tier A with same investment, I can easily pull another e1s1 after 3 patches. I don't really see reason to use horizontal investment, specially because you won't have enough resources to level 2 units every patch.
You must be new to gacha to assume 100-130 pulls per patch. Its more like 70-80 pulls with ~3 big patches at 100-110 pulls (x.0 version opening patch, anniversary patch, endgame update patches). This is the same for all Hoyo games. Monthly pass can add ~24 pulls per patch + 8 pulls from BP. So yea unless you spend, there is no way you can average 1 guarantee per patch.
@@solemityprudent1869 yea but, even in this patch alone you'll get 110 pulls. Same as hsr, you get around 100 pulls each patch. This isn't the case for genshin, which they average 70 pulls per patch
where on earth are you getting this number from
Vertical> but u have to be careful to only invest in absolute proven broken units
but mr eod, S clears give more rewards. I own cinema 2 ellen as a free to play player and I minmax the rewards game is giving me.
These gacha CC just want to make new words 🙄
Ppl coping hard with M6 Ellen/ZY. Mid while my M0 Ellen+ZY keeps on S clearing everything
Gacha games are inherently collection game. More characters will gives more worth in terms of satisfication if you play even a tad bit long term
To add my point, as you said usually the endgame mode will endorse/buff the rate up limited character for that patch so it gives more reason to horizontal investment
No one said you can't invest plenty into just 1 character, if they are the love of your life then go E6S5 them, go nuts
hmmmm
Zhu yuan category
dont care about others?
exept anby and nicole 😂😅
f2p: ....
Its a hoyoverse game bro
Even in 3 years a char like soldier 11 will still full clear lol
Have you played HSR, because that's pretty clearly not the trend with its DPS characters. Genshin, 100%. Honkai Star Rail, absolutely not.
It's unclear if ZZZ is going to be more like Genshin or HSR at this point, or tbh, much of what's going to be relevant.
(E.g. given the number of combat missions that have a 'keep your entire party alive' rather than a time clear objective, this game miiiiggghttttt actually end up being different from the other two where defensive utility is as important as pure DPS.)
@@Yevievt people still clear content with blade in HSR maybe not 0 cycle but still clear nonetheless
and genshin well lets say i can just rollface any content with 1.0 char only
@@ganyumaindayone1112 The drop off between characters like Blade and Jing Yuan compared to Firefly and Acheron is pretty noticeable, and at this rate, half a year later, they're not going to be clearing without some killer investment.
They still are decent for now, but there's been a pretty steady amount of powercreep in HSR. (Compare Seele to Jingliu to Acheron. )
Blade miiiigghttt get a resurgence if they include some HP oriented supports, but a lot of the old DPS units kind of already have gotten as buffed as they reasonably could be.
HSR *could* slow down, but it benefits them more not to. I'm pretty sure the main reason Genshin doesn't do powercreep is that Genshin's endgame isn't the focus (exploration is). There's a lot of ways to use new characters outside of the Abyss.
In HSR, there really isn't much to do with new characters outside of the endgame (and there isn't realy a true "playstyle" for any character). so they need that powercreep to sell them to you.
ZZZ could avoid powercreep because, unlike HSR (and tbh, Genshin), characters legitimately feel unique and different to use. So, they could sell new characters based on play style. They also seem to be leaning very heavily into.... aesthetic appeal to market characters.
But, then again, the easiest way to sell new characters in a combat-focused game is to make it so the old characters just don't cut it anymore
@@ganyumaindayone1112 hyperinvested blade. A simple build can't clear current content that well
@@theothersideofthecoin3125 My Blade has been benched for 3 months after being built to all farkery.
Not paying anything to gacha games will make you a better person, trust me. I’ve seen what people go through just to be able to show off. We, on the other hand, should be saving our goddamn lives and survive the real world first!
Ellen m0r0 and zhu. M0 and without robocop(:d) can clear shiyu for S. Now no need to get m6 , only if u really like character or its overpowered
Waiting for jane m0r0 and skip next 1.2/1.3
Imao