Hi Jamie, I normally never comment on CZcams videos but I felt i just had to after watching this episode. You have experienced he exact same lack of professionalism, consistency in the syllabus from one instructor to another and the arrogance’s of certain individuals that think they are special. I did my Yatchmaster offshore in both motor and sail last year in Spain. 5 days of training by a very experienced instructor who although still had his faults was very very thorough. A British examiner was found locally but we where told by the school that they didn’t really like using him, So alarm bell where ringing already. Within the first 1hr of the exam his true colors came out and said we where all doing things all wrong even though we had nailed the maneuvers perfectly the way we had be taught, he then proceeded to instruct us instead of examine us for the rest of the 6hrs practical exam only to tell us all (6 of us) that we had all failed, complete joke!! I dont take to kindly to people like this so the next day I wrote an event time and incident log of the whole 6hrs exam. I then approached the manager/owner of the RYA training centre in Spain, I told him what had happened and went through the whole 6hrs event log even though he didn’t want to hear it. I then told him I will give him the opportunity to go away and think about how he should respond before I write a formal letter of complaint to the RYA in the UK. Now these schools do not what to be scrutinized by the RYA and to be investigated or the threat of there reputation be dragged through the mud, so he did the right thing and arranged a new examiner to be flown out from the uk in a weeks time and we could sit the exam again. That examiner was such a nice guy, passed all of us and said we where some of the best trained students he had seen in a long time and encourage us to go on to do the Yatchmaster ocean. I am now a Captain of a 30meter motor yacht with 3 crew. Just remember a Yatchmaster / captain is not someone who can sail a boat around or park it in a marina, it’s someone who can manage people, crew, guests, deal with problems and failures while keeping a level head and making the right decisions when it counts.
Hi Capt Mike.. That is interesting... Yes, I would have reported something if I had performed better... However, I thought I was a bit marginal myself, regardless of the examiners quirks... Its more the instructor that I blame for not polishing the both of us better. Thanks for the advice tho... Cheers
We have a lot more tosspots like that here in the UK. We can send any number more. Might I suggest you write a letter to the RYA setting out your concerns so they can ensure that their qualifications do not become demeaned and to prevent anyone else from suffering a similar fate?
Report to your insurer. They will be very interested in the absence of standardisation and adaptation to existing conditions. Just a tip. Keep the spirit up mate. Cheers.
Had similar experience with RYA, hard to get consistency and relevance. I'm with you, I've leaving it for another day down the track. Thanks for the videos!
You seem like a very level headed guy and you are a airline pilot for christ sake, I don't for a minute believe that you failed. Obviously this guy had a chip on his shoulder. Chin up Jaime, next time you will nail it.
Being a pilot, I find sailing easy. I know you should have passed this easily. Sometimes the instructor is not as professional as they should be. I think you're dealing with a human issue. Just keep sailing / flying and enjoy life. Have a beer on me. Cheers!
As a pilot, you must be very good at navigation, including marine navigation, including the tools to navigate paper map, digital map, compass, gps, sextant (may not be used now)
Keep ya chin up and give it a go soon. The poms are different and next time out the instructor to work. After all, you are the captain and he is just another number that can be put to work. Just the same way as you exercise your captaincy on your aircraft. Yes, have the engine idling and use it to finesse the final manoeuvre. Otherwise, you need much more experience on sailing up to mooring bouys, jetties and collecting people who jump overboard...unintentionally. Just adding my 2 penneths to your experience. I dream of the experiences you are gaining and experiencing. Cheers!!!
You should not have failed. I had a similar experience doing coastal Skipper in Gibraltar where the examiner was going to fail me. I quoted the instructor book where it said with more experience they can pass you and he did after the weeks training. MOB and picking up a mooring under sail was fairly easy once you know how. Don't let it get you down.
Also a pilot, with lots of check-rides. In a simulator check-ride, the skills are more specific: engine out on takeoff, loss of pressurization, hydraulic failure, no flap landing, etc. Yes, you get a scenario and have to manage the crew and do the checklists in order. However, most instructors know to respect the quality of each procedure done and not to get too wrapped up in, "I would have done it that way," unless it is a clear violation of procedure or clear misjudgment. One check ride I almost flunked was passing the check for an 18 foot day sailboat so that I could check out boats at the Navy sailing club in San Diego. I literally had a retired Navy Captain giving the check and he almost flunked me because I bent over to pull the boat line to draw it to the dock to step in. The only way to do it properly was to hook your foot under the line and draw it in so you didn't have to bend over. His way. I enjoy your videos.
You actually set yourself up for a fairly big challenge. Few people attempt the YMO/YMC exam without having done day skipper or coastal skipper first, the fact you'd only just finished the YM theory and then went straight in to the practical followed by exam made it very hard. The examiner can exam any part of the syllabus. If he only covered MOB and sailing on to a pickup, suggests he wasn't happy early on. I've crewed for a few YM exams and also passed it myself. They would normally cover a lot more during the 8 hours assessment (per person). Also a quick glance at your Passage plan makes me wonder if you accounted for tide? Your CoG should have followed an S shape (cross channel). You should be able to estimate where you will be at the half way point so that you crew don't panic and correct a course that will be corrected by tide. Your instructor should have briefed you on that. The other thing you need to include is watches (accounting for crew) when you the skipper will be on watch and where the hazards are. End of the day YMO is a management and sailing exam, not just a test of sailing ability. Give it another go. Sailing off anchor is one of the common checks along with approaching a pick up at an angle that allows you to spill your power (maybe use the Genoa if the angle is wrong?), you should have practiced this during the prep week. Based on your video, I think it was the prep week, that was the failure, not the exam.
Spot on. RYA have their requirements but they are reasonable Assuming you follow their syllabus. V difficult to come in »left field » and expect to pass YM. Some experience with Day skipper requirements is needed before progressing to YM offshore/YM coastal.
Sadly there's tosspots everywhere, and it looks like you were unlucky enough to meet one. I wouldn't worry about it much though - you're sailing and he's not ;)
I feel your pain ! I have heard about the lack of standardisation in RYA courses. I have been sailing since I was about 12 and have probably logged more miles than most as I lived overseas for a while and sailed at least once or twice a week year round with some offshore racing as well. I had an interesting conversation with a charter company in the Caribbean, they asked if I had any paper sailing qualifications and when I said “no” they replied “good !” 🤣🤣🤣
I sympathise, I took my exams a good few years ago and was lucky to get good people but my experience with the RYA is that it has way too many like this, they are in fact infested with pricks, try to put it behind you and enjoy your sailing.
I'm sorry you had a crap experience! I had a great YM experience and my examiner was keen to see people do things their own way. He was in his 70s, ex military and still keen to learn from new sailors. I agree your pilotage plan can be a hand drawn map - thats what I used. I think it's a shame your instructor didn't tell you that you could use the engine for MOB though! Unless the examiner says engine failure then you can always use it. Also, the examiner can only test you in the area available for the exam and so they do expect you to show you know how to do something like a three point fix even if you don't need it right then and there... It's the only way he can test you know how to do it. Same as he got you to do a tidal passage plan even though you were in the Caribbean, to check you knew how. Some bad rya examiners have a chip on their shoulder about people that dont do "real" sailing ie around the UK tidal waters... I'm sorry you seem to have got one of them! Good luck for next time!
poor instruction by a certified RYA assessor (register a complaint) - I wonder what was in those missing 2 days - like you will be required without being asked to do 3 point fix etc - you will be in charge of the boat and the assessor will want to see you make decision and take command etc etc etc and practice of man overboard
I’m an airline pilot myself and can identify with exactly what you went through as there are so many similarities. The English regulatory system and exams are so out of touch with present realities & sometimes still cling on outdated stuff and procedures / protocols, very different from like the Americans. I would say to you shake it off and don’t let that define you.
@@SailingLifeonJupiter I know of one man who needed a UK commercial license to take paying passengers in his vintage biplane, still had to learn how to use a 737 autopilot FMS
Wowww Jamie the frustration is real!! Respect for sharing this with us.. A comment by the examiner like that at the beginning of your exam obviously has a huge psychological effect.. think human factors and all... your performance after that is going to be affected! That's just not a fair way for an exam to be conducted... feeling for you guys...Definitely true what others have said here, at least you're actually sailing!! 🤙🏼 🤙🏼
@@SailingLifeonJupiter Yea that I can believe... sucks big time!!! Keep sharing and enjoying, I'll be following, with cruising plans in mind as well! 🤩
Watching this from Devon, England. Me and my husband are just starting out on our boating journey. Going to be buying a motor cruiser at some stage in the not too distant future. We’ve been to see our local sea school who are wonderful and have put together a programme of courses which will include Yachtmaster/Coastal theory. We’ve just done the one day SRC/VHF course which was examined in house which we both passed. I was just browsing CZcams searching peoples experience of RYA courses in general when I came upon this one. I am so sorry that you were failed. I feel strongly that you were failed by the examiner actually. This was two years ago now that this happened to you, but if it had been me, i would definately have made some sort of complaint about this particular examiner. The RYA ought to know about him failing you, his unprofessionalism and what I would describe as his incompetence xx
Hay Jamie n Princess I've been watching your channel since the beginning and always look forward to your weekly upload, you guys are doing amazingly well on your circumnavigation. Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the YM exam. I'm wondering if this examiner is a little jealous of your achievements? With your sea miles and history/experience with Jupiter you already have passed any YM exam! I'm sure this will be a small speed bump in you journey and I agree shearing your experience with RYA is a must. keep up the awesome videos! Cheers Emiel
Sounds like you started at Yachtmaster Level based on experience. I tried to do Day Skipper but then got advised to do back to back Competent Crew then Day Skipper. That was the right thing to do and not only taught the basics but introduced me to RYA approach and assessment. I struggled with docking and reversing pre-assessment day but our tutor was also examiner at that level. I did it in Dubai where wind is often missing. You've just been unlucky, keep at it, or join American version of RYA as you're in the vicinity.
you didn't fail, you learnt something new. keep the spirits up and keep learning to be the best YOU can, even if it's not to another persons standards, you are the captain of that boat and it's your responsibility to keep everyone and everything safe.
I had a similar experience when I got my Commercial pilot's licence training at American Flyers in Ardmore Oklahoma. They send me to Oklahoma City for my exam even though Dallas was closer. There was an Examiner in Dallas that failed everybody just automatically. Just my luck... the examiner had transferred to Oklahoma City. I managed to fumble my way through. Same kind of irrational comments etc. I got back to Ardmore, and all my buddies and instructors were waiting to start the party. I told them who my examiner was and there was a collective groan. Someone suggested that we have a party anyway and we did. My instructor started to talk about what we may want to work on which confused me until I figured out that they all thought I had failed since I had not mentioned that I had passed. It turned out to be a memorable party. I feel for you, but let it slide. I know is that not easy because as a Pilot failure is normally not an option. I would definitely document everything and send it on. This may just be the straw that breaks the camels back. You know that guy was not just stupid that day. It's a shame that stupid does not hurt, otherwise this guy would be in a lot of pain.
When I did my RYA day skipper a few years ago the instructor was a 30yr old gun-ho type. I am an ex Merchant Navy deck officer (6yrs) and navigated cargo ships around the world as a third mate. I am also an ex full-time HM Coastguard officer (6yrs). The day skipper instructor took two of us out in a force 6/7 on the first day without knowing our background or experience or medical background. I was nearly 70 years of age at the time and not as strong as I used to be. He would shoud his instructions in a panicky manner as though we were his racing crew and in a race. On the third day early evening sailing to Brixham from Salcombe our engine died, no batteries, no navigation lights, against the tide and slight wind. He then said "I wonder if we should do a pan pan?" I immediately replied "absolutely"....he then took 45 minutes (I timed it) before he broadcast a pan pan whilst he tried to phone the owner of the school eventually getting through and then broadcast the pan pan. He was a complete and utter panic merchant and should never be an instructor. I nearly left on the fourth day. I then did my coastal skipper in East Anglia which was completely different and professional with an instructor who was mature, experienced, safe and knew how to manage a crew calmly. I think it's abit of a lucky dip as to who you get to instruct or examine.
Some of these guys are on a power trip and will probably go home and brag about how he failed you deliberately! With your experience, I would recommend you take an online course for the American Captains license and take your offshore add on and tell the RYA to bugger off.
I commend you for putting your face as the thumbnail of this video log. Producing a relevant sailing video. And not resorting to click bait tactics. Good sailing to you.
Another great video. Always great to see the yachting problems you face and the solutions (like the outboard). Sounds like total incompetence from the RYA. Examiners personal opinions shouldn't be part of exams. There should be manuals on how to do tasks, stating optional methods or exact methods. You're an experienced sailor I hope you make a complaint. I think you need to reference your pilot training which I would expect is clear, well documented and consistent.
You would think it should be a consistant standard... But you do see the same problems in airlines too... I guess it all comes down to personalities and power play.
I had a different approach to you, I did my theory course, over 2 years at night school with a face to face instructor. I knew my theory upside down, back to front and inside out. I’d also sailed with sailing schools in the U.K. to gain experience at teaching. I don’t believe the examiner was at fault because you failed, I think more likely, it was because you’d learned just one way to tackle a problem when truthfully, there is more than one way ‘to skin a cat’! As a Yachtmaster, you need to know them all. I’m delighted to say i passed first time, (this was 20+years ago) but it wasn’t easy! The failure rate then was well over 50%. Since then, I’ve found Madeira from southern Portugal using a sextant, I’ve had to cross shipping lanes in thick fog to get back into Portsmouth harbour, i’ve managed to save my yacht from sinking after the stern gland failed, and all this single handed. RYA Yachtmaster is a serious business! I’ve recently hung up my sailing boots (at 77) but spent many hours single handed in all conditions, including a storm in Biscay and being struck by lightning in the Thames estuary. I’m still here to tell the tales and NOT ONCE have I needed to call the coastguard to help me out. I KNOW I can do it…. P.s. I climbed my 40ft mast at age 75, single handed, using nothing more than Prusik knots. Anyone who doesn’t know what they are isn’t really Yachtmaster material in my view.
Cheers maid! I´m pretty sure you did it well. A well trained RYA Yachtmaster is always overthinking and self-critical. Try again and succeed! (Not sure if you already suceeded 🙃) Best regards from Germany 🏴☠
Good information on the test. Something to be aware of for sure. As you say, Jamie, "Knowledge keeps you Cruising!" Now that you know how the test is run/ can be run, you have an advantage if you take it again. For example, run the engines to turn the boat around for MOB (but turn them off when close to recovery -re:risk of injury to MOB from props) If you don't feel safe hoisting the main until you are clear of the anchorage, then don't. As the captain, *you* make the decisions. Explain to the examiner your reasoning. Keep your head up. In my experience these guys like to show their superiority. If you show confidence, it will be respected.
I also failed my YM Offshore Practical in Antigua. I've been sailing and have the experience as Skipper and yet I failed because I didn't meet the examiner's expectations. RYA is very Strict and have their own specific answers and results that they are looking for.
When the boat comes to a stall, reverse your rudders, hold the jib on side you have them on then the boat will move to a position to change jib and go 😁👍
We've played with that Angela... Perhaps i'll give it another shot... After tacking on the mono, i realize why cats and mono's dont race upwind together!
Chin up. Most people never even try to do something so life enhancing. Try again. I do mine next Spring. I also love the emotion you exhibit. You obviously care a lot, good on you, tells me you will pass next time - if you haven't already!
It’s called a yacht MASTER for a reason. You need to know and be a master of more than 1 method of doing any one thing. The eg you give of him suggesting to hoist the main in a channel close to other boats may have been an attempt to see how you would handle the situation so he could assess you on your ability to sail out of a tight spot with confidence should for example your auxiliary motor failing. Hoping for the best and drifting through an anchorage or dropping the hook mid channel probably would have been worse options than coming to wind, hoisting the main and bearing away. Nothing particularly dangerous or hung ho in that from where I’m sitting. YM offshore is a tough course, sleeves up and give it another bash.
First of all, thank you for being so sharing. Not easy to do especially to the masses. I could tell that you were upset by the experience. Would sail in the hardest of conditions with you as captain. Cheers…
Good video. I enjoyed the overall content buy not the exam results. You have sailed several oceans and experience outweighs any exam. Also out of so many sailing channels I have two favourites and life on Jupiter is one.
I have American certification (ASA) similar to RYA Day Skipper and have had different instructors at various stages. I experienced similar situations (especially on MOB) where different instructors had their own way of doing things and didn't want to deviate. It's frustrating as a student who is following written material and previous instructors. I think mainly they weren't trained or skilled in all of the different taught methods and didn't have the maturity to say so. Also, I have experienced instructors/testers with serious personality disorders. It's infuriating to pay a lot of money to a person so they can abuse their small chance of holding power in a situation for ego purposes. Cheers for posting the video. It's good to help others trying to plan their certification routes by choosing the best people/schools.
Just to add my worthless comments. Agree 100% about in consistency of instructors and tutors. Although I like your trainers sailing in close quarters. A skill set I always admire belongs to the skipper who can sail his boat into or out of an anchorage, mooring buoy, dock or slip without using the engine. It always seems so graceful when properly done. Although in heavy winds on a cat not so practical. I suppose it’s like learning to drive around an empty car park compared to the real roads. As for not taking a bearing I suppose he wanted you to show all your skills within the short examination time frame. I’m sure you are familiar with that being a pilot. Have a go again soon.
Tks Adrian... I actually did have my compass on my neck and with laminated chart in hand mentioned a confirmation bearing to the other crew... But failed to mark it on the LAMINATED chart... But I didn't get into that on the video... Feel I had bashed him enough. And you are right about the sailing...easier in lighter winds.. I found it a handful in the 20kts or more constantly blowing in Antigua.
Your experience of being a pilot has given you good risk aversion, which is a good thing. I was a Master 5 commercial skipper and found yacht racing way to risky with some skippers. They are happy to rub paint off the competition, where I would always keep a safe distance. Keep your good judgement and forget about ego skippers
I passed my exam ( Yacht master coastal) back in the mid 90s and I even had an argument with the examiner.(He still passed me) At the end of the exam we ended up in Poole harbour at the quay. I was told to sail in with no engine and get her along side. I refused. I said there is a chance of damage(not my boat) and that fluky winds around the buildings would make it very difficult. I just refused. He said you might have to do this in an emergency and I said fine but this is not an emergency. I had already done man overboard and did a successful one. Anyway we went along side under engine and I thought that I had failed it. He did pass me though so all in all not the end of the world. Later on with a bit of research I found out that the hbr byelaws don't allow you to sail in if you have a working engine. If I had failed I would have complained as i thought the last part was outside of the syllabus. I did my Yacht master Offshore about 3 months later which was straight forward even if the examiner was an arrogant tw-t. Ps I hate exams.....
I would have thought that if you were on the helm and got close to the mooring buoy so that it was brushing the side of the boat then you can't do any more. It's up to the crew then to secure it. It's not your fault the boat hook broke. I've seen a similar situation where the hook broke, there was no pick up buoy so someone jumped in the tender to secure a line.
At the end of this month I am going to do the theory exam for offshore yacht master. After the theoretical exam I will do the practical exam. I am nervous, since English is not my language. Watching your video also alerts me that the certificate is difficult to obtain. in spain we have something similar to the titles of rya. but there is no practical exam... just a few practices and you are ready to sail. I have been a professional captain in my country for some time and even if I am aware that I can fail this exam. Cheer up and good luck for the next time, if you repeat your test... in the end it is not a problem to repeat it, it is more the economic cost of bringing an examiner from the UK. hugs and good luck in all your adventures
You know Jamie being a fellow Pilot that if you were aviation training you would have been correct to leave the mainsail down !, don't worry mate, I failed my Met exams a few times lol
Law school had a lot of irrational procedures like the ones you experienced. Best would be to speak with someone who the examiner has already passed and ask them what the examiner wants to see and how to do it.
One suggestion I would make, regardless of yachtmaster succes: is to practise MOB alone, since you generally sail with just the two of you. You should both do so. Not for the sake of any papers to wave around, but for the sake of saving each over's lives should it be required one day. (I noticed you were practicing two person MOB)
I hv a few things to say about man overboard procedure. We threw a lifebuoy overboard for the drill. Five of us. Big stable 42' Tri. Gentle wind and pleasant sea. Despite myself climbing up the ratlins (yes, I had ratlins) to inner forestay level to look around, and motoring about for 15 minutes, we never saw the lifebuoy again. A very sobering experience for us all - and not because the lifebuoy cost 50 quid. I hv something else to say too. The idea of trying to retrieve a man overboard under sail, with a multihull, in the kind of wind/ sea conditions that would put your man overboard in the first place, is - to me - utterley laughable fantasy - pure Monty Python. Simultaneous priorities wd hv to be - get the marker out, get the sails down, get the engine started. Even so, the chances of getting near the man again are slim. But if u did get close, how do u get a rope on the man? And how do u then pull him aboard without bashing his brains out ?? And since I'm here ... I have a few things to say about the RYA. I started an RYA course when I was building my 42ft Tri. I jacked it in after a few months cos it seemed fulla crap. I devized my own method of Astro Nav (with a sextant) using templates of my own design requiring only the insertion of readings to produce a position. As u may suppose, I'm not keen on officialdom or supervision of any kind.
Bummmmmerrrr! I did my RYA Day Skipper practical in Nelson NZ December 2020 (Abel Tasman - beautiful cruising grounds). Interesting that my practical teacher was also my examiner, and it was continuous assessment. She did not ever say "that's a fail!" and only at the very end did was I asked how *I* went. I gave my honest opinion saying that my shortcomings were well countered by my ability to handle a boat (35' Jeanneau) in all conditions presented (up to 20 knots and 2.2m swell). I concentrated as much as possible on my weak points (back bearings, night navigation, containing my seasickness). I did a couple of naughties - called a cardinal marker wrong but kept a good lookout so I got myself out of jail, though I don't know by how much. She was a strict teacher, quick to correct but also quick to praise - but did not like my approaches to moorings or man overboard. That I got each one first time each time saved me but I was using a short circling glide approach (aviators will know what I mean 😁) when she wanted a long downwind, turn to base (no gybe!) and a long final, with a fill & spill as required. Yeah I passed, through natural handling skills but not through a polished technique. But, whatever did the job. My fellow student failed her Day Skipper, but got her Competent Crew. By the way, we sailed off our moorings when in anchorages - p.o.p. 😁. And in training we did a combination of engine man overboard and sail man overboard - but our vital first actions included starting the engine, which to me was logical. And we had to do a mud map with the main nav bearings on it, including back bearings. One could come to the conclusion that your inital instructor may not have been up to scratch - the RYA bar is high - higher than my NSW Coxswains ticket many years ago. And all done in 3 days? Mine took 5... Anyway - I failed my ME CIR first time around. Had to resit before I got it. Ya fall offa da horse, ya gotta git back on 😁
raising your main amongst a crowd of boats is a challenge to test your confidence in sail and boat handling, it obviously put you off when you should have taken on the challenge and applied your training, skills and experience
I had a similar but different experience in Australia with RYA, but for the day skipper course. The particular school provided an instructor that was not fully qualified to teach the full course and a boat that was not up to scratch. No apology or refund, just several disgruntled customers. RYA needs to keep tabs on all schools and instructors to ensure standards are maintained. I later went interstate to do the same course again and that time it was great.
Sounds like the examiner started off with a bur under his saddle. A wonder if he was a little annoyed about flying in from the UK to do the test? I share your frustration. If anything, I feel like your reluctance to put up the main when you were among moored boats should be considered passing the test of not just blindly doing what you are told when you know it is an error! It also sounds like he rushed through the exam by not taking you out more than 3 miles, then having the gall to write down that you hadn't taken a position fix! That really sucks!
I know how you feel Buddy been there a couple of times Once confidence is lost its hard to get back on the horse. When I failed My drivers lic as a 17 year old the first examiner was similar to your pomme guy but the next one was great and made feel like I was going to pass before we set off on the test. So my anxiety level came right down right down, I drove really well and I passed no problems. So the way you explained it your Instructor can now be your examiner, maybe.
You have no idea how he feels jackass. Comparing a basic drivers license from decades ago at 17 whilst calling someone you don't know buddy. Jamie is a pilot, I'd say his qualifications are far higher than the dimwits he had to deal with.
Mate like you I failed mine this weekend. Had a prep week and taught a method. On exam it didn’t work and examiner wanted to see another method. What the prep week didn’t mention was all the details an examiner wants to see. Like fixes, clearing bearings et al on a short passage. For me I was asked to pop up the main sail in a small channel at night and sail out. My own confidence took a massive hit as I personally would not have done it and waited to clear the channel especially due to having 1.5 kts of tidal stream. I feel your pain for sure, but having been through it I now know what they are looking for and should nail it next time round. Chin up mate, but I know how disappointed you feel 🍺👍
Ahh shit John... That sux... Yeah I was most disappointed with our instructor since he didn't prepare us adequately. But you're right next time, we should nail it... (or at least pass!)
Examiner is looking for a basic sketch for your pilotage plan, it’s just the way, best to sketch something, what if you get Sick and need to rely on the crew?, they might be a visual person, as daft as it sounds… you need to plan for all circumstances that’s what he’s looking for, just sketch one, it’s pretty much the same as why bother plotting on paper if you have two chart plotters and 6 backups? Just do it. As for hauling the mainsail up in an anchorage, he’s looking for your boat handling in close quarters, I had to tack up a 40m channel, your hesitation will make them think your taking the easy route and lack confidence. Raising a sail in the anchorage should be a simple task and you should just crack on with it, yeah the other boats may feel your crazy but remember he is testing your skills and will use obstacles to do that. if the examiner suggests something they are trying to steer you towards the correct answer. Mob, if you have a working engine why not use it? That’s the stance from the rya, although that said I did mine under sail and the examiner asked me to do it again solo, which I did successfully again under sail… he wanted me to use the engine but was not going to say that, I passed because I shown him I could do it solo. He then simply asked what else could I do? And I mentioned the engine but I was confident to do it under sail so that was the end of that conversation, that was the only difficult conversation we had, the examiner said I aced everything and even mob was exceptional even though they really wanted me to use the engine, the only reason I passed was because I started it but left it in neutral and although I still used the sails he could see I was prepared just in case) As for hooking a buoy under sail, you shouldn’t allow your crew to stretch down, lasso the buoy with a line from the bow cleats would have been what he was looking for rather than letting your crew stretch As for taking fixes etc, your yachtmaster exam won’t be a long passage (nothing happens once you’ve set the boat up offshore let’s be honest) so he’s looking for position fixes, radio checks regardless how pointless they feel or how familiar you are with the area. My examiner wasn’t very chatty but he marked in his little notepad every time I told the crew where we were, asked for a fix, wrote a log down, it felt like I was acting because I knew exactly where I was but he wanted to see my process now matter how silly it seemed just like the safety drill at the start, we’d all been on the boat for 5 days but I still told them where the first aid kit was for the 5th time! You hit the nail on the head at the end, they want to see it in a particular way, and much like a driving test in your car you just need to suck it up and do it no matter how ridiculous it feels at the time (example ten to two position with your hands on the steering wheel! That’s a fail if you don’t do it!! The minute we pass no one drives like that!!) Our instructor in the build up before the examiner arrived constantly assessed me and if i didn’t do fixes etc he would remind me it would be a fail, no matter how silly if feels you need to show your chart skills. His attitude sounded a little off, but you have to remember it’s exam conditions and you have to tick all the boxes in a very short timeframe and very short passage, my exam was 20 nm in total including a night sail, blind navigation, day sail, mob etc etc I was the sole one on the exam which made the scrutiny even higher as usually you’d take turns with other candidates during the passage (I was constantly being watched!) The examiner even acts, mine wasn’t wearing a life jacket and told me it was pointless to wear one… I said “well I’m not leaving the dock until you put one one”, his response was a smile and “correct answer” he’s always testing you! The person I spoke to post exam in the debrief was not the same guy that took my exam, he was now relaxed and now could have a joke with me and drop the exam conditions, honestly it’s just a test and we have to sail to test conditions, I mean using the auto pilot is a fail, but I’ve sailed 10 times more miles on autopilot than I have hand steered!!
Tks CS... Ultimately I was most annoyed at paying for 3 days with the instructor (also examiner) to prepare us 2 candidates for the exam, and obviously he did not. That's what I mean by such a difference in standard. Anyhow... One day I'll have another crack at it.. Cheers
Sad to hear this but not sure why it is relevant in the end. I got my RYA Day and Coastal, no need for Ocean for now. Was not clear why you need Ocean unless you plan a career and paid skippering/ocean crossings. You are sailing and got a cat, life is good. As for the sailing out of the anchorage, yep, was asked to do so in Grenada and could understand it may be a skill to have in your back pocket. It was also done under ASA in the USA sailing when I did it in the early 1990s. Funny thing, I was at the helm with GoPro’s lock and loaded. He raised the full main as a gust was coming. We rocketed out of the anchorage with head sail and main dodging anchor chains and criss crossing tenders at a screaming 7.5 knots. After nearly plowing over someone who crossed my’ path on a tender, he insisted time and again I had stand-on . Refused to accept speed was excessive and “not consistent with control”, and refused to recognize there was anything wrong. Got some great GoPro video of that little instructor experience.
Ah that attitude and experience in the anchorage sounds very familiar! Yeah TT I was seeking the offshore ticket for the possibility of getting some paid work... Still got bills to pay for on the ocean! Cheers
Dude! I just failed mine too, just 3 days ago. I know I can drive a boat well and safely (I've been working and living on boats for the last 5 years, I actually have a license on my country and done deliveries and pacific crossing) but the difference of standard between instructors and examiners are ridiculous. Like you, I know I didn't perform the way I should and the way I do on a regular basis, maybe because of my lack of sleep on the last few weeks (studying, not partying) but still... And my problem is not just the crazy amount of money that I just spended but also because I have to fly back home, I will have to wait until next year to do try again. I'm really pissed!!!
Mate at least you did the test, some years ago in Australia after completing all the theory I enquired about doing that final practical test, on first contact even before we saw any water the instructor said "of course you will fail, everybody fails their first test". I never completed the course.
It sounds like the training week did a poor job of equipping you with what you need for the exam. The Yachtmaster syllabus is pretty clear about what's needed. When being examined you are the skipper, not the examiner. If you want to raise sail somewhere you deem safer then do that and explain why you made that decision. Next time!
Spirits up man! For not having taking a course before, you did well. Wife and I have done ASA (101, 103, 104) I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking the RYA exam until I finished the remaining 8 courses and had a consistent year on the helm. And I sail on a lake north of Houston, Texas! Typical Brit, but that’s to be expected… he just wanted to see a polished applicant and I can respect that. Your instructor was lacking. MOB is done under power, unless total engine failure.
It never used to be done under power. All sail. That change came later and for very practical reasons. The RYA Offshore has been slowly dumbed down, not for bad reasons but because of technology.
I can see what you mean. With the RYA you really need to show them that you are flexible enough to adapt to changes being thrown at you randomly. They also want to see the old navigation skills like position fixing using 3 point or running fix etc. You didn't mention the blind navigation! Seems the examiner didn''t put you through that, can be also quite interesting having to know all the sound signal in restr. vis. so on so on. Well the RYA clearly doesn't give away their YACHTMASTER Zert. easily, which is nice to see honestly! In all honesty, was your perfomance and your knowledge up to a Yachtmaster standard? answer that question to yourself and be fair about it! I think you know you just wasn't quite there, shouldn't blame the RYA fo it though Put more effort in it and you'll make it!! I like your channel, keep it up
Upside down flag is usually a sign of distress. However some countries have very specific meanings for various rotations of their flags. Eg the Philippines flag with red on top (ie upside down) means they are at war.
Mate, sorry to hear of your troubles with the RYA. Very unprofessional of them not to have their training and examination systems standardised, to expect hand drawn replication of the chart in passage planning, to not allow lassooing of a mooring buoy, to insist on hoisting the main in a tight anchorage, etc etc. A CLASIC case of those who can DO and those that can't TEACH / EXAMINE. He should be sacked and your fees reimbused! You have probably sailed many more miles and are in a much better position to be teaching him rather than the other way round. Perhaps he was jealous and intimidated by your travels, competence, experience and skills. Looks like I won't be bothering to get a bit of paper from RYA. I might not do everythong by their book, but have sailed 100k miles without any major incidents.
You are wrong to dismiss the RYA. I have done commercial tickets as well as marine exams in both Aus and NZ and the RYA was the best set up hands down. A bad examiner is no reason to dismiss them. I did my coastal and YM offshore as well as crewed for many exams with different examiners. I was on a sailing school boat as crew for a year. The exams and set ups were constant with minor differences. No one was treated unfairly or examined in a childish way. I could see why some people passed and some failed. Most failed because at some stage they just did not know what to do.
Dont let this incident put you off… of course it can be frustrating n disappointing… hey its not mandatory😊😊😊😊… along your routes you are bound to meet other country sailing cert… US, Canada, Europeans etc etc… staysafe n observe SOP for Covid… seen too many CZcamsrs boaters/yachter all over the world infected with Covid n some have lost their loved ones too…😍😍😍😍😍👌👌👌👍👍👍👍
Wow, I can tell that hurt, especially when you performed as “trained.” I’m sure if you send a detailed report to the main office, they may reconsider/refine their tests. But then again, probably not. I would consider using a different organization. 👍👍👍
One note I would give you is that the sailing school you did the Yachtmaster prep at (if I guess correctly based on location) has a bad reputation. In Jolly Harbour there is a more well organized institution.
It happened something similar to me. The instructor showed us how we should be docking the boat during the 2 days of practice and then on my first attempt during the exam, I did it perfectly, calm and no issues at all. The other person who was doing the exam with me had 2 attempts to dock but he did it with no issues. The first thing the examiner asked us afterwards was "why are you guys docking the boat like this?". We didn't say anything because of course we didn't want to mention the instructor but inside ourselves we were like "man, this is how the RYA YM Offshore instructor showed us how to do". Anyway..
I have been told by several commercial skippers that they regard the RYA as a bunch of jumped of weekend sailors. If you want the best relevant international standard go with IYT. Much better.
Don’t be too hard on yourself. I’m an ex merchant navy deck officer and have sailed extensively. I did my practical in the Solent and it took a whole day. We covered just about everything from oral exam, blind navigation, anchoring, position fixing, secondary port tide calculations to name but a few and yes you guessed it, I failed. This was many years ago now and I never took it again. You don’t need to have a piece of paper to prove your competence as a skipper of a boat. Enjoy your sailing.
Good rant. So let me get this straight. You two have sailed how many nautical miles? Must be terribly frustrating, and during a pandemic no doubt. Chin up as they say...examiner can suck it. Wouldn't it be a tickle to see his ticket on a manifest!
I worked charter boats out of the BVI and have sailed up and down the chain. There has always been friction between SOME people within the RYA who seem to think Caribbean sailing and sailors should be held to a higher standard. Instructors and examiners on different pages is a nightmare, I nearly failed a flying instructor exam because my instructor refused to teach to the examiner. I should be down in English Harbor in a month or two, if I see you I'll buy you a beer to commiserate.
Omg Jamie..I think we have mostly seen the last of these types in the aviation world,but the RYA appears to be running behind,with modern training and testing methods..Seems like they need to run an audit on their standards requirements,at least,in the name of fair play for their customers..When the student makes more sense than the examiner,and the examiner does not have the balls to acknowledge and compliment!.. It’s great that you have shared this story.Hopefully ,someone in the RYA will get a kick right in the slats!
To be honest, it sounds like you failed because you did not have the groundwork which the courses would provide. The RYA have a modular system which builds on the previous module. You also must realise this is a business not a service. They make money from holding courses. Without the income they could not continue to do the training or the testing. Hundreds of people fail, some more than once. My advise is book the Yacthmaster course and the exam together. You will get instruction and ample practicle hands on experience. The test then comes while everything is fresh in your mind. Lastly dont beat yourself up about it as i said hundreds fail first time its not a slight on your intelligence it just means you were not ready. Good luck !!!
Mate, this is no big deal. I also failed my first sailing license. When I rented the personal catamaran from Betrand de Broc (the legend who sewed his tongue during the Vendée Globe), he only asked about experience - this is more important on 16 m catamaran with 7.5 tons than a license. This is the French approach and it works pretty well!
Sorry to here that buddy, and after all that expense. I don’t know how it works but hopefully you’ll come across a location with examiners available to make a re-test easier. Worth contacting RYA even to provide the constructive feedback.
Yeah now worried guys... Ya know I didn't perform all that well, so I don't wanna be a sore loser... Just grumpy at the process, and not having been adequately prepared by the instructor. Cheers.
Sounds like a right one, one tip when examined for man overboard. You have to say start the engine the examiner will then tell you the engine doesn't work. But you still have to say craz6 I know in real life you would start the donk but it's a sailing boat so in their eyes everything is done by sail.
The RYA are making themselves obsolete with antics like this. If they want to stay relevant I think they need a complete organisational shift! Sounds like you got the RYA version of an ego driven Senior Checky ;-)
Thank you for your insight and detailed report of the lousy business that is RYA. As a pilot as well, I have zero patience for that complete lack of standardization. Ive been wanting to explore this certification and I will NOT be using RYA. Cheers and I know you will crush it on the next time around
Thanks Geoff... I reckon if you started from scratch with RYA and learned how they want things done, you'd have no problem.... But i think i'll try another organization next.
@@SailingLifeonJupiter thanks for your reply. I’m definitely looking into it. I see you’re on the Great Lakes. If you make it into Lake Huron and come all the way south to Collingwood, let me know. Beers on me. Would love to pick your brain on the process
This is a very personal and honest post, thank you for that. What a strange examiner.I had taken a similar German exam with comparable maneuvers after a week of training. With a Mulithull it seems to me hardly feasible.
Oh that's great news, I'm paying a sh**load to do mine in Brisbane at the moment. Sounds pretty unprofessional to me. Mainsail up amongst moored boats 😳
Hi Jamie,
I normally never comment on CZcams videos but I felt i just had to after watching this episode. You have experienced he exact same lack of professionalism, consistency in the syllabus from one instructor to another and the arrogance’s of certain individuals that think they are special. I did my Yatchmaster offshore in both motor and sail last year in Spain.
5 days of training by a very experienced instructor who although still had his faults was very very thorough.
A British examiner was found locally but we where told by the school that they didn’t really like using him, So alarm bell where ringing already.
Within the first 1hr of the exam his true colors came out and said we where all doing things all wrong even though we had nailed the maneuvers perfectly the way we had be taught, he then proceeded to instruct us instead of examine us for the rest of the 6hrs practical exam only to tell us all (6 of us) that we had all failed, complete joke!!
I dont take to kindly to people like this so the next day I wrote an event time and incident log of the whole 6hrs exam. I then approached the manager/owner of the RYA training centre in Spain, I told him what had happened and went through the whole 6hrs event log even though he didn’t want to hear it. I then told him I will give him the opportunity to go away and think about how he should respond before I write a formal letter of complaint to the RYA in the UK.
Now these schools do not what to be scrutinized by the RYA and to be investigated or the threat of there reputation be dragged through the mud, so he did the right thing and arranged a new examiner to be flown out from the uk in a weeks time and we could sit the exam again.
That examiner was such a nice guy, passed all of us and said we where some of the best trained students he had seen in a long time and encourage us to go on to do the Yatchmaster ocean. I am now a Captain of a 30meter motor yacht with 3 crew.
Just remember a Yatchmaster / captain is not someone who can sail a boat around or park it in a marina, it’s someone who can manage people, crew, guests, deal with problems and failures while keeping a level head and making the right decisions when it counts.
Hi Capt Mike.. That is interesting... Yes, I would have reported something if I had performed better... However, I thought I was a bit marginal myself, regardless of the examiners quirks... Its more the instructor that I blame for not polishing the both of us better.
Thanks for the advice tho...
Cheers
We have a lot more tosspots like that here in the UK. We can send any number more. Might I suggest you write a letter to the RYA setting out your concerns so they can ensure that their qualifications do not become demeaned and to prevent anyone else from suffering a similar fate?
That's a good idea David...cheers
Very good idea.
Thank you for the new word. I had never heard the word "tosspot."
I was thinking twathead, but tosspot fits nicely with some fellow countrymen
@@nooneanybodyknows1321 here's another....dude needed a good kick in his lady Gunther
Report to your insurer. They will be very interested in the absence of standardisation and adaptation to existing conditions. Just a tip. Keep the spirit up mate. Cheers.
Thanks Tom
Had similar experience with RYA, hard to get consistency and relevance. I'm with you, I've leaving it for another day down the track. Thanks for the videos!
Really?... Yeah, thanks Don
You seem like a very level headed guy and you are a airline pilot for christ sake, I don't for a minute believe that you failed. Obviously this guy had a chip on his shoulder. Chin up Jaime, next time you will nail it.
Thanks Walter... Yep...next time
It's not ok to blaspheme the name of the Lord Jesus Christ !
No the man overboard would be a fail - but it is the other issues raised that are of concern
You will get it next time man!! Get out there and sail and forget about it! You got it next time!
Thanks Thoughful
@@SailingLifeonJupiter Once a captain always a captain that never goes away cause of a piece of bureaucratic paper ;) o7 to you captain
Being a pilot, I find sailing easy. I know you should have passed this easily. Sometimes the instructor is not as professional as they should be. I think you're dealing with a human issue. Just keep sailing / flying and enjoy life. Have a beer on me. Cheers!
Will do, thanks Scout
As a pilot, you must be very good at navigation, including marine navigation, including the tools to navigate paper map, digital map, compass, gps, sextant (may not be used now)
Keep ya chin up and give it a go soon. The poms are different and next time out the instructor to work. After all, you are the captain and he is just another number that can be put to work. Just the same way as you exercise your captaincy on your aircraft. Yes, have the engine idling and use it to finesse the final manoeuvre. Otherwise, you need much more experience on sailing up to mooring bouys, jetties and collecting people who jump overboard...unintentionally. Just adding my 2 penneths to your experience. I dream of the experiences you are gaining and experiencing. Cheers!!!
You should not have failed. I had a similar experience doing coastal Skipper in Gibraltar where the examiner was going to fail me. I quoted the instructor book where it said with more experience they can pass you and he did after the weeks training. MOB and picking up a mooring under sail was fairly easy once you know how. Don't let it get you down.
Also a pilot, with lots of check-rides. In a simulator check-ride, the skills are more specific: engine out on takeoff, loss of pressurization, hydraulic failure, no flap landing, etc. Yes, you get a scenario and have to manage the crew and do the checklists in order. However, most instructors know to respect the quality of each procedure done and not to get too wrapped up in, "I would have done it that way," unless it is a clear violation of procedure or clear misjudgment. One check ride I almost flunked was passing the check for an 18 foot day sailboat so that I could check out boats at the Navy sailing club in San Diego. I literally had a retired Navy Captain giving the check and he almost flunked me because I bent over to pull the boat line to draw it to the dock to step in. The only way to do it properly was to hook your foot under the line and draw it in so you didn't have to bend over. His way. I enjoy your videos.
You actually set yourself up for a fairly big challenge. Few people attempt the YMO/YMC exam without having done day skipper or coastal skipper first, the fact you'd only just finished the YM theory and then went straight in to the practical followed by exam made it very hard. The examiner can exam any part of the syllabus. If he only covered MOB and sailing on to a pickup, suggests he wasn't happy early on. I've crewed for a few YM exams and also passed it myself. They would normally cover a lot more during the 8 hours assessment (per person). Also a quick glance at your Passage plan makes me wonder if you accounted for tide? Your CoG should have followed an S shape (cross channel). You should be able to estimate where you will be at the half way point so that you crew don't panic and correct a course that will be corrected by tide. Your instructor should have briefed you on that. The other thing you need to include is watches (accounting for crew) when you the skipper will be on watch and where the hazards are. End of the day YMO is a management and sailing exam, not just a test of sailing ability. Give it another go. Sailing off anchor is one of the common checks along with approaching a pick up at an angle that allows you to spill your power (maybe use the Genoa if the angle is wrong?), you should have practiced this during the prep week. Based on your video, I think it was the prep week, that was the failure, not the exam.
Totally agree with you there... The "prep" that I paid for was a waste of my cruising kitty. That's what I'm most pissed about.
This is the most "on point" comment here.
Spot on. RYA have their requirements but they are reasonable Assuming you follow their syllabus. V difficult to come in »left field » and expect to pass YM. Some experience with Day skipper requirements is needed before progressing to YM offshore/YM coastal.
Sadly there's tosspots everywhere, and it looks like you were unlucky enough to meet one. I wouldn't worry about it much though - you're sailing and he's not ;)
That is true Mordokch... there will be another time. Cheers
I wish you two the best, so good to see smiling faces.
Cheers Eric...tks so much
I feel your pain ! I have heard about the lack of standardisation in RYA courses. I have been sailing since I was about 12 and have probably logged more miles than most as I lived overseas for a while and sailed at least once or twice a week year round with some offshore racing as well. I had an interesting conversation with a charter company in the Caribbean, they asked if I had any paper sailing qualifications and when I said “no” they replied “good !” 🤣🤣🤣
Haha.. Cheers Lee
They are standardized. Dont believe everything on U tube. Are there tossers out there? Sure but it is rare.
I sympathise, I took my exams a good few years ago and was lucky to get good people but my experience with the RYA is that it has way too many like this, they are in fact infested with pricks, try to put it behind you and enjoy your sailing.
Haha...i've heard this a few times... Ah well... another time.
I'm sorry you had a crap experience! I had a great YM experience and my examiner was keen to see people do things their own way. He was in his 70s, ex military and still keen to learn from new sailors. I agree your pilotage plan can be a hand drawn map - thats what I used.
I think it's a shame your instructor didn't tell you that you could use the engine for MOB though! Unless the examiner says engine failure then you can always use it. Also, the examiner can only test you in the area available for the exam and so they do expect you to show you know how to do something like a three point fix even if you don't need it right then and there... It's the only way he can test you know how to do it. Same as he got you to do a tidal passage plan even though you were in the Caribbean, to check you knew how.
Some bad rya examiners have a chip on their shoulder about people that dont do "real" sailing ie around the UK tidal waters... I'm sorry you seem to have got one of them! Good luck for next time!
Thanks Cara, yep i learned a lot in the process... and im sure it'll be better next time...Cheers
poor instruction by a certified RYA assessor (register a complaint) - I wonder what was in those missing 2 days - like you will be required without being asked to do 3 point fix etc - you will be in charge of the boat and the assessor will want to see you make decision and take command etc etc etc and practice of man overboard
When I took the RYA day skipper course we were taught to use the engine for MOB, it was given to us as a standard practice.
I’m an airline pilot myself and can identify with exactly what you went through as there are so many similarities. The English regulatory system and exams are so out of touch with present realities & sometimes still cling on outdated stuff and procedures / protocols, very different from like the Americans. I would say to you shake it off and don’t let that define you.
Thanks Ayo... yeah, I still don't have an EASA license coz they want you to learn "astro navigation"!.... or so i believe.... anyway...cheers
@@SailingLifeonJupiter I know of one man who needed a UK commercial license to take paying passengers in his vintage biplane, still had to learn how to use a 737 autopilot FMS
Wowww Jamie the frustration is real!! Respect for sharing this with us.. A comment by the examiner like that at the beginning of your exam obviously has a huge psychological effect.. think human factors and all... your performance after that is going to be affected! That's just not a fair way for an exam to be conducted... feeling for you guys...Definitely true what others have said here, at least you're actually sailing!! 🤙🏼 🤙🏼
Thanks UFA...yeah it was a weird experience....sort of left a bad taste in my mouth. Thanks for you support.
@@SailingLifeonJupiter Yea that I can believe... sucks big time!!! Keep sharing and enjoying, I'll be following, with cruising plans in mind as well! 🤩
Watching this from Devon, England. Me and my husband are just starting out on our boating journey. Going to be buying a motor cruiser at some stage in the not too distant future. We’ve been to see our local sea school who are wonderful and have put together a programme of courses which will include Yachtmaster/Coastal theory. We’ve just done the one day SRC/VHF course which was examined in house which we both passed. I was just browsing CZcams searching peoples experience of RYA courses in general when I came upon this one. I am so sorry that you were failed. I feel strongly that you were failed by the examiner actually. This was two years ago now that this happened to you, but if it had been me, i would definately have made some sort of complaint about this particular examiner. The RYA ought to know about him failing you, his unprofessionalism and what I would describe as his incompetence xx
Hay Jamie n Princess I've been watching your channel since the beginning and always look forward to your weekly upload, you guys are doing amazingly well on your circumnavigation. Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the YM exam. I'm wondering if this examiner is a little jealous of your achievements? With your sea miles and history/experience with Jupiter you already have passed any YM exam!
I'm sure this will be a small speed bump in you journey and I agree shearing your experience with RYA is a must. keep up the awesome videos!
Cheers Emiel
Hey Emiel...tks so much for your lovely words.
Sounds like you started at Yachtmaster Level based on experience. I tried to do Day Skipper but then got advised to do back to back Competent Crew then Day Skipper. That was the right thing to do and not only taught the basics but introduced me to RYA approach and assessment. I struggled with docking and reversing pre-assessment day but our tutor was also examiner at that level. I did it in Dubai where wind is often missing. You've just been unlucky, keep at it, or join American version of RYA as you're in the vicinity.
Yes, i agree George...I don't think they take kindly to me not coughing up enough cash to start from scratch.... Another time...cheers
you didn't fail, you learnt something new. keep the spirits up and keep learning to be the best YOU can, even if it's not to another persons standards, you are the captain of that boat and it's your responsibility to keep everyone and everything safe.
I had a similar experience when I got my Commercial pilot's licence training at American Flyers in Ardmore Oklahoma.
They send me to Oklahoma City for my exam even though Dallas was closer. There was an Examiner in Dallas that failed everybody just automatically.
Just my luck... the examiner had transferred to Oklahoma City. I managed to fumble my way through. Same kind of irrational comments etc.
I got back to Ardmore, and all my buddies and instructors were waiting to start the party.
I told them who my examiner was and there was a collective groan.
Someone suggested that we have a party anyway and we did.
My instructor started to talk about what we may want to work on which confused me until I figured out that they all thought I had failed since I had not mentioned that I had passed.
It turned out to be a memorable party.
I feel for you, but let it slide. I know is that not easy because as a Pilot failure is normally not an option.
I would definitely document everything and send it on. This may just be the straw that breaks the camels back. You know that guy was not just stupid that day.
It's a shame that stupid does not hurt, otherwise this guy would be in a lot of pain.
Yeah you do come across these sorts of guys... Don't worry RYA have seen this vid! They got their feedback.
When I did my RYA day skipper a few years ago the instructor was a 30yr old gun-ho type. I am an ex Merchant Navy deck officer (6yrs) and navigated cargo ships around the world as a third mate. I am also an ex full-time HM Coastguard officer (6yrs). The day skipper instructor took two of us out in a force 6/7 on the first day without knowing our background or experience or medical background. I was nearly 70 years of age at the time and not as strong as I used to be. He would shoud his instructions in a panicky manner as though we were his racing crew and in a race. On the third day early evening sailing to Brixham from Salcombe our engine died, no batteries, no navigation lights, against the tide and slight wind. He then said "I wonder if we should do a pan pan?" I immediately replied "absolutely"....he then took 45 minutes (I timed it) before he broadcast a pan pan whilst he tried to phone the owner of the school eventually getting through and then broadcast the pan pan. He was a complete and utter panic merchant and should never be an instructor. I nearly left on the fourth day. I then did my coastal skipper in East Anglia which was completely different and professional with an instructor who was mature, experienced, safe and knew how to manage a crew calmly. I think it's abit of a lucky dip as to who you get to instruct or examine.
Great episode, thanks for sharing what was obviously not a great situation for you.
Cheers Jezza
Some of these guys are on a power trip and will probably go home and brag about how he failed you deliberately! With your experience, I would recommend you take an online course for the American Captains license and take your offshore add on and tell the RYA to bugger off.
I've heard that's only available to US citizens... but i might look into it... I'm certainly doing the latter!... Cheers William
@@SailingLifeonJupiter I'm not sure about the U.S. citizen part but it is worth a look. Good luck and love your videos.
I commend you for putting your face as the thumbnail of this video log. Producing a relevant sailing video. And not resorting to click bait tactics. Good sailing to you.
Why thank you AA... I'm sure no one would have clicked with my ass in the shot!
Another great video. Always great to see the yachting problems you face and the solutions (like the outboard). Sounds like total incompetence from the RYA. Examiners personal opinions shouldn't be part of exams. There should be manuals on how to do tasks, stating optional methods or exact methods. You're an experienced sailor I hope you make a complaint. I think you need to reference your pilot training which I would expect is clear, well documented and consistent.
You would think it should be a consistant standard... But you do see the same problems in airlines too... I guess it all comes down to personalities and power play.
I had a different approach to you, I did my theory course, over 2 years at night school with a face to face instructor. I knew my theory upside down, back to front and inside out.
I’d also sailed with sailing schools in the U.K. to gain experience at teaching.
I don’t believe the examiner was at fault because you failed, I think more likely, it was because you’d learned just one way to tackle a problem when truthfully, there is more than one way ‘to skin a cat’! As a Yachtmaster, you need to know them all.
I’m delighted to say i passed first time, (this was 20+years ago) but it wasn’t easy! The failure rate then was well over 50%.
Since then, I’ve found Madeira from southern Portugal using a sextant, I’ve had to cross shipping lanes in thick fog to get back into Portsmouth harbour, i’ve managed to save my yacht from sinking after the stern gland failed, and all this single handed.
RYA Yachtmaster is a serious business! I’ve recently hung up my sailing boots (at 77) but spent many hours single handed in all conditions, including a storm in Biscay and being struck by lightning in the Thames estuary.
I’m still here to tell the tales and NOT ONCE have I needed to call the coastguard to help me out.
I KNOW I can do it…. P.s. I climbed my 40ft mast at age 75, single handed, using nothing more than Prusik knots. Anyone who doesn’t know what they are isn’t really Yachtmaster material in my view.
Cheers maid!
I´m pretty sure you did it well.
A well trained RYA Yachtmaster is always overthinking and self-critical.
Try again and succeed! (Not sure if you already suceeded 🙃)
Best regards from Germany 🏴☠
The superior seaman use his superior judgment to avoid having to use his superior skills.🙏
Good information on the test. Something to be aware of for sure. As you say, Jamie, "Knowledge keeps you Cruising!" Now that you know how the test is run/ can be run, you have an advantage if you take it again. For example, run the engines to turn the boat around for MOB (but turn them off when close to recovery -re:risk of injury to MOB from props) If you don't feel safe hoisting the main until you are clear of the anchorage, then don't. As the captain, *you* make the decisions. Explain to the examiner your reasoning. Keep your head up. In my experience these guys like to show their superiority. If you show confidence, it will be respected.
Cheers Marcel
I also failed my YM Offshore Practical in Antigua. I've been sailing and have the experience as Skipper and yet I failed because I didn't meet the examiner's expectations. RYA is very Strict and have their own specific answers and results that they are looking for.
Yup.. I guess I wasn't indoctrinated adequately. Ah well.
Well balanced reply.
When the boat comes to a stall, reverse your rudders, hold the jib on side you have them on then the boat will move to a position to change jib and go 😁👍
We've played with that Angela... Perhaps i'll give it another shot... After tacking on the mono, i realize why cats and mono's dont race upwind together!
My partner was the youngest Australian single handed Multi Hull racer back in 1997, he know the tricks and also taught Hobie sailing
Shocking situation. Dude you are more than capable captain. Keep sailing ⛵️ and screw instructor.
Love ya videos and happy days
Thanks so much Jools
Chin up. Most people never even try to do something so life enhancing. Try again. I do mine next Spring. I also love the emotion you exhibit. You obviously care a lot, good on you, tells me you will pass next time - if you haven't already!
It’s called a yacht MASTER for a reason. You need to know and be a master of more than 1 method of doing any one thing. The eg you give of him suggesting to hoist the main in a channel close to other boats may have been an attempt to see how you would handle the situation so he could assess you on your ability to sail out of a tight spot with confidence should for example your auxiliary motor failing. Hoping for the best and drifting through an anchorage or dropping the hook mid channel probably would have been worse options than coming to wind, hoisting the main and bearing away. Nothing particularly dangerous or hung ho in that from where I’m sitting. YM offshore is a tough course, sleeves up and give it another bash.
One day... Cheers Jonathan.
Time for a push button starter me thinks!
Certainly be easier!
First of all, thank you for being so sharing. Not easy to do especially to the masses. I could tell that you were upset by the experience. Would sail in the hardest of conditions with you as captain. Cheers…
Yeah thanks Richard.. Means a lot.
''Why do I need to redrawn the map" Because the map never goes into cockpit. It says in the chart table where it safe from the water and wind and sun.
Cheer up Bro keep going you are a good sailor you don't need a certificate you have nautical miles captain Jaime
Sorry to hear your rya exam didn’t work out. I enjoy your videos and appreciate that this one was a tough one to share.
Yes BG... I appreciate your insight... i thought long about this one....Ah well...Whatever!
Good video. I enjoyed the overall content buy not the exam results. You have sailed several oceans and experience outweighs any exam. Also out of so many sailing channels I have two favourites and life on Jupiter is one.
Awesome feedback... Thank you
As an airline pilot you should be ace at navigation. Seamanship is the challenge! I,ve heard picking up a mooring ball is the nerve racking part!
I have American certification (ASA) similar to RYA Day Skipper and have had different instructors at various stages. I experienced similar situations (especially on MOB) where different instructors had their own way of doing things and didn't want to deviate. It's frustrating as a student who is following written material and previous instructors. I think mainly they weren't trained or skilled in all of the different taught methods and didn't have the maturity to say so. Also, I have experienced instructors/testers with serious personality disorders. It's infuriating to pay a lot of money to a person so they can abuse their small chance of holding power in a situation for ego purposes. Cheers for posting the video. It's good to help others trying to plan their certification routes by choosing the best people/schools.
Just to add my worthless comments. Agree 100% about in consistency of instructors and tutors. Although I like your trainers sailing in close quarters. A skill set I always admire belongs to the skipper who can sail his boat into or out of an anchorage, mooring buoy, dock or slip without using the engine. It always seems so graceful when properly done. Although in heavy winds on a cat not so practical. I suppose it’s like learning to drive around an empty car park compared to the real roads. As for not taking a bearing I suppose he wanted you to show all your skills within the short examination time frame. I’m sure you are familiar with that being a pilot. Have a go again soon.
Tks Adrian... I actually did have my compass on my neck and with laminated chart in hand mentioned a confirmation bearing to the other crew... But failed to mark it on the LAMINATED chart... But I didn't get into that on the video... Feel I had bashed him enough. And you are right about the sailing...easier in lighter winds.. I found it a handful in the 20kts or more constantly blowing in Antigua.
Your experience of being a pilot has given you good risk aversion, which is a good thing. I was a Master 5 commercial skipper and found yacht racing way to risky with some skippers. They are happy to rub paint off the competition, where I would always keep a safe distance. Keep your good judgement and forget about ego skippers
Thanks Juice... Maybe you're right.
I passed my exam ( Yacht master coastal) back in the mid 90s and I even had an argument with the examiner.(He still passed me) At the end of the exam we ended up in Poole harbour at the quay. I was told to sail in with no engine and get her along side. I refused. I said there is a chance of damage(not my boat) and that fluky winds around the buildings would make it very difficult. I just refused. He said you might have to do this in an emergency and I said fine but this is not an emergency. I had already done man overboard and did a successful one. Anyway we went along side under engine and I thought that I had failed it. He did pass me though so all in all not the end of the world. Later on with a bit of research I found out that the hbr byelaws don't allow you to sail in if you have a working engine. If I had failed I would have complained as i thought the last part was outside of the syllabus. I did my Yacht master Offshore about 3 months later which was straight forward even if the examiner was an arrogant tw-t. Ps I hate exams.....
I would have thought that if you were on the helm and got close to the mooring buoy so that it was brushing the side of the boat then you can't do any more. It's up to the crew then to secure it. It's not your fault the boat hook broke. I've seen a similar situation where the hook broke, there was no pick up buoy so someone jumped in the tender to secure a line.
Wow. That route through the Great Lakes, all those canals? I didn't think was possible in a catamaran. Can't wait to see how it goes.
All good so far... Chicago this afternoon!
@@SailingLifeonJupiter Well done! Can't wait to see the videos.
At the end of this month I am going to do the theory exam for offshore yacht master. After the theoretical exam I will do the practical exam.
I am nervous, since English is not my language.
Watching your video also alerts me that the certificate is difficult to obtain.
in spain we have something similar to the titles of rya.
but there is no practical exam... just a few practices and you are ready to sail.
I have been a professional captain in my country for some time and even if I am aware that I can fail this exam.
Cheer up and good luck for the next time, if you repeat your test... in the end it is not a problem to repeat it, it is more the economic cost of bringing an examiner from the UK.
hugs and good luck in all your adventures
Good luck with your exam Juan...
You know Jamie being a fellow Pilot that if you were aviation training you would have been correct to leave the mainsail down !, don't worry mate, I failed my Met exams a few times lol
Ya Piri... Failure is just a part of life... Can't win em all!
Law school had a lot of irrational procedures like the ones you experienced. Best would be to speak with someone who the examiner has already passed and ask them what the examiner wants to see and how to do it.
True UUB... thats what we do in the airlines before a sim check.... Unfortunately we had to have him flown in for this exam.
I would complain till they paid for another tester to come test you again.
Hmm.. I suspect they support each other... anyway, it wasn't my best day...Tks DC
Yep totally agree.
Reminds me of those nasty old vehicle examiners. Ugh. Sorry to hear about your experience. The rest of us have faith in you. Chin up fella. 🥂 ⛵️
Thanks Michy
wow. great episode..
Cheers for that!
dont trust the authority of uk in anythin anymore
One suggestion I would make, regardless of yachtmaster succes: is to practise MOB alone, since you generally sail with just the two of you. You should both do so. Not for the sake of any papers to wave around, but for the sake of saving each over's lives should it be required one day. (I noticed you were practicing two person MOB)
I hv a few things to say about man overboard procedure. We threw a lifebuoy overboard for the drill. Five of us. Big stable 42' Tri. Gentle wind and pleasant sea. Despite myself climbing up the ratlins (yes, I had ratlins) to inner forestay level to look around, and motoring about for 15 minutes, we never saw the lifebuoy again.
A very sobering experience for us all - and not because the lifebuoy cost 50 quid.
I hv something else to say too. The idea of trying to retrieve a man overboard under sail, with a multihull, in the kind of wind/ sea conditions that would put your man overboard in the first place, is - to me - utterley laughable fantasy - pure Monty Python. Simultaneous priorities wd hv to be - get the marker out, get the sails down, get the engine started. Even so, the chances of getting near the man again are slim. But if u did get close, how do u get a rope on the man? And how do u then pull him aboard without bashing his brains out ??
And since I'm here ... I have a few things to say about the RYA. I started an RYA course when I was building my 42ft Tri. I jacked it in after a few months cos it seemed fulla crap. I devized my own method of Astro Nav (with a sextant) using templates of my own design requiring only the insertion of readings to produce a position. As u may suppose, I'm not keen on officialdom or supervision of any kind.
It is not full of crap. Please state what part of your teaching was crap and the circumstances?
Bummmmmerrrr! I did my RYA Day Skipper practical in Nelson NZ December 2020 (Abel Tasman - beautiful cruising grounds). Interesting that my practical teacher was also my examiner, and it was continuous assessment. She did not ever say "that's a fail!" and only at the very end did was I asked how *I* went. I gave my honest opinion saying that my shortcomings were well countered by my ability to handle a boat (35' Jeanneau) in all conditions presented (up to 20 knots and 2.2m swell). I concentrated as much as possible on my weak points (back bearings, night navigation, containing my seasickness). I did a couple of naughties - called a cardinal marker wrong but kept a good lookout so I got myself out of jail, though I don't know by how much. She was a strict teacher, quick to correct but also quick to praise - but did not like my approaches to moorings or man overboard. That I got each one first time each time saved me but I was using a short circling glide approach (aviators will know what I mean 😁) when she wanted a long downwind, turn to base (no gybe!) and a long final, with a fill & spill as required. Yeah I passed, through natural handling skills but not through a polished technique. But, whatever did the job. My fellow student failed her Day Skipper, but got her Competent Crew.
By the way, we sailed off our moorings when in anchorages - p.o.p. 😁. And in training we did a combination of engine man overboard and sail man overboard - but our vital first actions included starting the engine, which to me was logical. And we had to do a mud map with the main nav bearings on it, including back bearings. One could come to the conclusion that your inital instructor may not have been up to scratch - the RYA bar is high - higher than my NSW Coxswains ticket many years ago. And all done in 3 days? Mine took 5...
Anyway - I failed my ME CIR first time around. Had to resit before I got it. Ya fall offa da horse, ya gotta git back on 😁
Yes you do John... No choice!.. I'll get back on the horse sometime when it's convenient...cheers for relaying your experience
raising your main amongst a crowd of boats is a challenge to test your confidence in sail and boat handling, it obviously put you off when you should have taken on the challenge and applied your training, skills and experience
And we did SB...just thought it was bad seamanship to scare the anchored boats.
I had a similar but different experience in Australia with RYA, but for the day skipper course. The particular school provided an instructor that was not fully qualified to teach the full course and a boat that was not up to scratch. No apology or refund, just several disgruntled customers. RYA needs to keep tabs on all schools and instructors to ensure standards are maintained. I later went interstate to do the same course again and that time it was great.
Yeah that sux crazyg... well, i definitely know the RYA are aware of my episode!...
Sounds like the examiner started off with a bur under his saddle. A wonder if he was a little annoyed about flying in from the UK to do the test? I share your frustration. If anything, I feel like your reluctance to put up the main when you were among moored boats should be considered passing the test of not just blindly doing what you are told when you know it is an error! It also sounds like he rushed through the exam by not taking you out more than 3 miles, then having the gall to write down that you hadn't taken a position fix! That really sucks!
Thanks Dan... I agree... it was a bizarre day in my life.
I know how you feel Buddy been there a couple of times Once confidence is lost its hard to get back on the horse. When I failed My drivers lic as a 17 year old the first examiner was similar to your pomme guy but the next one was great and made feel like I was going to pass before we set off on the test. So my anxiety level came right down right down, I drove really well and I passed no problems. So the way you explained it your Instructor can now be your examiner, maybe.
Apparently not... Crazy system... Anyway another time.. Cheers Neill
You have no idea how he feels jackass. Comparing a basic drivers license from decades ago at 17 whilst calling someone you don't know buddy. Jamie is a pilot, I'd say his qualifications are far higher than the dimwits he had to deal with.
Mate like you I failed mine this weekend. Had a prep week and taught a method. On exam it didn’t work and examiner wanted to see another method. What the prep week didn’t mention was all the details an examiner wants to see. Like fixes, clearing bearings et al on a short passage. For me I was asked to pop up the main sail in a small channel at night and sail out. My own confidence took a massive hit as I personally would not have done it and waited to clear the channel especially due to having 1.5 kts of tidal stream. I feel your pain for sure, but having been through it I now know what they are looking for and should nail it next time round. Chin up mate, but I know how disappointed you feel 🍺👍
Ahh shit John... That sux... Yeah I was most disappointed with our instructor since he didn't prepare us adequately. But you're right next time, we should nail it... (or at least pass!)
That is why the qualification is revered outside some of the posters on here.
Many thanks for these information 👍
Just my story...cheers O
Examiner is looking for a basic sketch for your pilotage plan, it’s just the way, best to sketch something, what if you get Sick and need to rely on the crew?, they might be a visual person, as daft as it sounds… you need to plan for all circumstances that’s what he’s looking for, just sketch one, it’s pretty much the same as why bother plotting on paper if you have two chart plotters and 6 backups? Just do it.
As for hauling the mainsail up in an anchorage, he’s looking for your boat handling in close quarters, I had to tack up a 40m channel, your hesitation will make them think your taking the easy route and lack confidence.
Raising a sail in the anchorage should be a simple task and you should just crack on with it, yeah the other boats may feel your crazy but remember he is testing your skills and will use obstacles to do that. if the examiner suggests something they are trying to steer you towards the correct answer.
Mob, if you have a working engine why not use it? That’s the stance from the rya, although that said I did mine under sail and the examiner asked me to do it again solo, which I did successfully again under sail… he wanted me to use the engine but was not going to say that, I passed because I shown him I could do it solo. He then simply asked what else could I do? And I mentioned the engine but I was confident to do it under sail so that was the end of that conversation, that was the only difficult conversation we had, the examiner said I aced everything and even mob was exceptional even though they really wanted me to use the engine, the only reason I passed was because I started it but left it in neutral and although I still used the sails he could see I was prepared just in case)
As for hooking a buoy under sail, you shouldn’t allow your crew to stretch down, lasso the buoy with a line from the bow cleats would have been what he was looking for rather than letting your crew stretch
As for taking fixes etc, your yachtmaster exam won’t be a long passage (nothing happens once you’ve set the boat up offshore let’s be honest) so he’s looking for position fixes, radio checks regardless how pointless they feel or how familiar you are with the area. My examiner wasn’t very chatty but he marked in his little notepad every time I told the crew where we were, asked for a fix, wrote a log down, it felt like I was acting because I knew exactly where I was but he wanted to see my process now matter how silly it seemed just like the safety drill at the start, we’d all been on the boat for 5 days but I still told them where the first aid kit was for the 5th time!
You hit the nail on the head at the end, they want to see it in a particular way, and much like a driving test in your car you just need to suck it up and do it no matter how ridiculous it feels at the time (example ten to two position with your hands on the steering wheel! That’s a fail if you don’t do it!! The minute we pass no one drives like that!!)
Our instructor in the build up before the examiner arrived constantly assessed me and if i didn’t do fixes etc he would remind me it would be a fail, no matter how silly if feels you need to show your chart skills.
His attitude sounded a little off, but you have to remember it’s exam conditions and you have to tick all the boxes in a very short timeframe and very short passage, my exam was 20 nm in total including a night sail, blind navigation, day sail, mob etc etc I was the sole one on the exam which made the scrutiny even higher as usually you’d take turns with other candidates during the passage (I was constantly being watched!)
The examiner even acts, mine wasn’t wearing a life jacket and told me it was pointless to wear one… I said “well I’m not leaving the dock until you put one one”, his response was a smile and “correct answer” he’s always testing you!
The person I spoke to post exam in the debrief was not the same guy that took my exam, he was now relaxed and now could have a joke with me and drop the exam conditions, honestly it’s just a test and we have to sail to test conditions, I mean using the auto pilot is a fail, but I’ve sailed 10 times more miles on autopilot than I have hand steered!!
Tks CS... Ultimately I was most annoyed at paying for 3 days with the instructor (also examiner) to prepare us 2 candidates for the exam, and obviously he did not. That's what I mean by such a difference in standard. Anyhow... One day I'll have another crack at it.. Cheers
Muchas gracias por compartir tus enseñanzas
No hay problema
Sad to hear this but not sure why it is relevant in the end. I got my RYA Day and Coastal, no need for Ocean for now. Was not clear why you need Ocean unless you plan a career and paid skippering/ocean crossings. You are sailing and got a cat, life is good. As for the sailing out of the anchorage, yep, was asked to do so in Grenada and could understand it may be a skill to have in your back pocket. It was also done under ASA in the USA sailing when I did it in the early 1990s. Funny thing, I was at the helm with GoPro’s lock and loaded. He raised the full main as a gust was coming. We rocketed out of the anchorage with head sail and main dodging anchor chains and criss crossing tenders at a screaming 7.5 knots. After nearly plowing over someone who crossed my’ path on a tender, he insisted time and again I had stand-on . Refused to accept speed was excessive and “not consistent with control”, and refused to recognize there was anything wrong. Got some great GoPro video of that little instructor experience.
Ah that attitude and experience in the anchorage sounds very familiar! Yeah TT I was seeking the offshore ticket for the possibility of getting some paid work... Still got bills to pay for on the ocean!
Cheers
Dude! I just failed mine too, just 3 days ago. I know I can drive a boat well and safely (I've been working and living on boats for the last 5 years, I actually have a license on my country and done deliveries and pacific crossing) but the difference of standard between instructors and examiners are ridiculous. Like you, I know I didn't perform the way I should and the way I do on a regular basis, maybe because of my lack of sleep on the last few weeks (studying, not partying) but still... And my problem is not just the crazy amount of money that I just spended but also because I have to fly back home, I will have to wait until next year to do try again. I'm really pissed!!!
Faaaark Rodrigo... sorry to hear... it's hard to swallow... But, like life...win some, lose some. Keep smiling dude.
Mate at least you did the test, some years ago in Australia after completing all the theory I enquired about doing that final practical test, on first contact even before we saw any water the instructor said "of course you will fail, everybody fails their first test". I never completed the course.
Ah geez... They gotta siphon enough money from you first... Cheers
It sounds like the training week did a poor job of equipping you with what you need for the exam. The Yachtmaster syllabus is pretty clear about what's needed. When being examined you are the skipper, not the examiner. If you want to raise sail somewhere you deem safer then do that and explain why you made that decision. Next time!
Yeah that's my biggest beef...wasting a $1000 on the preparation. Cheers Simon
Spirits up man! For not having taking a course before, you did well. Wife and I have done ASA (101, 103, 104) I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking the RYA exam until I finished the remaining 8 courses and had a consistent year on the helm. And I sail on a lake north of Houston, Texas! Typical Brit, but that’s to be expected… he just wanted to see a polished applicant and I can respect that. Your instructor was lacking. MOB is done under power, unless total engine failure.
Yeah, I agree…I needed to be trained the RYA way…and have paid the money for all courses. Cheers
It never used to be done under power. All sail. That change came later and for very practical reasons. The RYA Offshore has been slowly dumbed down, not for bad reasons but because of technology.
I can see what you mean. With the RYA you really need to show them that you are flexible enough to adapt to changes being thrown at you randomly. They also want to see the old navigation skills like position fixing using 3 point or running fix etc. You didn't mention the blind navigation! Seems the examiner didn''t put you through that, can be also quite interesting having to know all the sound signal in restr. vis. so on so on.
Well the RYA clearly doesn't give away their YACHTMASTER Zert. easily, which is nice to see honestly!
In all honesty, was your perfomance and your knowledge up to a Yachtmaster standard? answer that question to yourself and be fair about it!
I think you know you just wasn't quite there, shouldn't blame the RYA fo it though
Put more effort in it and you'll make it!!
I like your channel, keep it up
Upside down flag is usually a sign of distress.
However some countries have very specific meanings for various rotations of their flags.
Eg the Philippines flag with red on top (ie upside down) means they are at war.
I was indeed in distress! Nothing a bottle of Mt Gay won't fix... Cheers
@@SailingLifeonJupiter I always wear my Mt Gay Rum hat (from 2002 Syd Hbt) when sailing.
Sorry it didn't turn out as you had hoped but thanks for sharing. Its good info for those of us considering the RYA / US equivalent. Cheers.
Good luck with whichever you choose
The exam is hard for a reason and that is why it is the worlds premier sailing qualification.
Mate, sorry to hear of your troubles with the RYA.
Very unprofessional of them not to have their training and examination systems standardised, to expect hand drawn replication of the chart in passage planning, to not allow lassooing of a mooring buoy, to insist on hoisting the main in a tight anchorage, etc etc. A CLASIC case of those who can DO and those that can't TEACH / EXAMINE. He should be sacked and your fees reimbused!
You have probably sailed many more miles and are in a much better position to be teaching him rather than the other way round.
Perhaps he was jealous and intimidated by your travels, competence, experience and skills.
Looks like I won't be bothering to get a bit of paper from RYA. I might not do everythong by their book, but have sailed 100k miles without any major incidents.
Thanks Mike... You might be right!
You are wrong to dismiss the RYA. I have done commercial tickets as well as marine exams in both Aus and NZ and the RYA was the best set up hands down. A bad examiner is no reason to dismiss them. I did my coastal and YM offshore as well as crewed for many exams with different examiners. I was on a sailing school boat as crew for a year. The exams and set ups were constant with minor differences. No one was treated unfairly or examined in a childish way. I could see why some people passed and some failed. Most failed because at some stage they just did not know what to do.
i do not think it is your ability, rather your strength of character to say NO!
Cheers Jim
Dont let this incident put you off… of course it can be frustrating n disappointing… hey its not mandatory😊😊😊😊… along your routes you are bound to meet other country sailing cert… US, Canada, Europeans etc etc… staysafe n observe SOP for Covid… seen too many CZcamsrs boaters/yachter all over the world infected with Covid n some have lost their loved ones too…😍😍😍😍😍👌👌👌👍👍👍👍
Cheers Araz
Wow, I can tell that hurt, especially when you performed as “trained.” I’m sure if you send a detailed report to the main office, they may reconsider/refine their tests. But then again, probably not. I would consider using a different organization. 👍👍👍
Probably will Clay.. Tks
One note I would give you is that the sailing school you did the Yachtmaster prep at (if I guess correctly based on location) has a bad reputation. In Jolly Harbour there is a more well organized institution.
It happened something similar to me. The instructor showed us how we should be docking the boat during the 2 days of practice and then on my first attempt during the exam, I did it perfectly, calm and no issues at all. The other person who was doing the exam with me had 2 attempts to dock but he did it with no issues. The first thing the examiner asked us afterwards was "why are you guys docking the boat like this?". We didn't say anything because of course we didn't want to mention the instructor but inside ourselves we were like "man, this is how the RYA YM Offshore instructor showed us how to do". Anyway..
Yup... Sounds familiar. Cheers Breno
I can’t wait till you pass by Milwaukee Wisconsin and Chicago Illinois.
Hey Chris.. we were Milwaukee for 3 days... Chicago this afternoon
I have been told by several commercial skippers that they regard the RYA as a bunch of jumped of weekend sailors. If you want the best relevant international standard go with IYT. Much better.
Yeah I might do that... Tks Tim
Jamie don't worry I was told no one was to pass the first time. I've failed twice and will never try again
Serious! Geez we gotta ditch the RYA by the sounds of it.
Who by and that is something worth reporting if true.
Don’t be too hard on yourself. I’m an ex merchant navy deck officer and have sailed extensively. I did my practical in the Solent and it took a whole day. We covered just about everything from oral exam, blind navigation, anchoring, position fixing, secondary port tide calculations to name but a few and yes you guessed it, I failed. This was many years ago now and I never took it again. You don’t need to have a piece of paper to prove your competence as a skipper of a boat. Enjoy your sailing.
Thanks for your support...
Good rant. So let me get this straight. You two have sailed how many nautical miles? Must be terribly frustrating, and during a pandemic no doubt. Chin up as they say...examiner can suck it. Wouldn't it be a tickle to see his ticket on a manifest!
Hehe... ah well CB1... will have to leave it to Karma
I worked charter boats out of the BVI and have sailed up and down the chain. There has always been friction between SOME people within the RYA who seem to think Caribbean sailing and sailors should be held to a higher standard.
Instructors and examiners on different pages is a nightmare, I nearly failed a flying instructor exam because my instructor refused to teach to the examiner.
I should be down in English Harbor in a month or two, if I see you I'll buy you a beer to commiserate.
That beer woulda been nice...but we're outta there now...Cheers
Omg Jamie..I think we have mostly seen the last of these types in the aviation world,but the RYA appears to be running behind,with modern training and testing methods..Seems like they need to run an audit on their standards requirements,at least,in the name of fair play for their customers..When the student makes more sense than the examiner,and the examiner does not have the balls to acknowledge and compliment!..
It’s great that you have shared this story.Hopefully ,someone in the RYA will get a kick right in the slats!
Hehe... i hear its a common trait Martin.. Ah well, winsum u losesum
I would of docked when he said put the main sheet up then report him to the rya .its your boat at the end of the day
Yeah it's a thin line we walk under exam... Id paid the money, I wanted the certificate... Sux, oh well.
To be honest, it sounds like you failed because you did not have the groundwork which the courses would provide.
The RYA have a modular system which builds on the previous module.
You also must realise this is a business not a service. They make money from holding courses. Without the income they could not continue to do the training or the testing.
Hundreds of people fail, some more than once.
My advise is book the Yacthmaster course and the exam together. You will get instruction and ample practicle hands on experience. The test then comes while everything is fresh in your mind.
Lastly dont beat yourself up about it as i said hundreds fail first time its not a slight on your intelligence it just means you were not ready.
Good luck !!!
Ya, I tried to bypass a lot of the quals, so certainly missed out on the way they do things...and like you say, it is a business. Cheers
@@SailingLifeonJupiter Dont let it spoil your dreams ... Go for it and make sure you at least achieve some goals along the way.
Great post without the knee jerk responses on here.
What I understand is that the examiner does not interfere with the skipper/ master. Perhaps he was testing your resolve, listen to yourself. Cheers
Oh no Simon.. He was certainly interfering! Cheers
@@SailingLifeonJupiter what a f wit
Mate, this is no big deal. I also failed my first sailing license. When I rented the personal catamaran from Betrand de Broc (the legend who sewed his tongue during the Vendée Globe), he only asked about experience - this is more important on 16 m catamaran with 7.5 tons than a license. This is the French approach and it works pretty well!
I agree... I was sort of hoping to get some paying job out of it tho... Doesn't matter, money will turn up somewhere!
I would certainly file a protest to RYA.
Thanks guys...id rather put it behind me.
Classic... sorry man, keep up! 👍
Cheers MK
Sorry to here that buddy, and after all that expense. I don’t know how it works but hopefully you’ll come across a location with examiners available to make a re-test easier. Worth contacting RYA even to provide the constructive feedback.
Yeah now worried guys... Ya know I didn't perform all that well, so I don't wanna be a sore loser... Just grumpy at the process, and not having been adequately prepared by the instructor.
Cheers.
Sounds like a right one, one tip when examined for man overboard. You have to say start the engine the examiner will then tell you the engine doesn't work. But you still have to say craz6 I know in real life you would start the donk but it's a sailing boat so in their eyes everything is done by sail.
Yeah... I certainly wasn't well prepared with the techniques. For the exam. .. Sort of blame the instructor for that.
Like any competency certification, the incompetent does the judging.
Actually he did show that when he started the engine to retrieve the MoB... he still took a long time to recover it.
Jamie
If you wish to stay with Rya they are just about all over the world.
Alternative you can yru
Jamie you can try the American yacht system tyi training yacht international.
I'll get on to it again one day when i regain the patience.... Cheers Bruce
The RYA are making themselves obsolete with antics like this. If they want to stay relevant I think they need a complete organisational shift! Sounds like you got the RYA version of an ego driven Senior Checky ;-)
Exactly Marko... Maybe i'll try the IYT next time... although they want me to start from scratch, when i enquired....thats a lot of $$$
I've known paper Captains, of which could not save there own _ _ _.
Of course, there are many... I was hoping to join them!
You're way beyond a piece of paper! Only those stuck behind a desk need it i.e. paper pushers.
Thank you for your insight and detailed report of the lousy business that is RYA. As a pilot as well, I have zero patience for that complete lack of standardization. Ive been wanting to explore this certification and I will NOT be using RYA. Cheers and I know you will crush it on the next time around
Thanks Geoff... I reckon if you started from scratch with RYA and learned how they want things done, you'd have no problem.... But i think i'll try another organization next.
@@SailingLifeonJupiter thanks for your reply. I’m definitely looking into it. I see you’re on the Great Lakes. If you make it into Lake Huron and come all the way south to Collingwood, let me know. Beers on me. Would love to pick your brain on the process
You should know better than to judge the RYA on this video. You have chosen to miss out on great training.
This is a very personal and honest post, thank you for that. What a strange examiner.I had taken a similar German exam with comparable maneuvers after a week of training.
With a Mulithull it seems to me hardly feasible.
Thanks Albert.
Oh that's great news, I'm paying a sh**load to do mine in Brisbane at the moment. Sounds pretty unprofessional to me. Mainsail up amongst moored boats 😳
I'm sure you'll do better than me...Good luck with it