Better Engine Building: Eliminate Common Lifter Failures
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2020
- Another in our continuing Better Engine Building series providing valuable tips for your next engine build. This time we show you how to avoid lifter and camshaft failures by checking for proper lifter bore clearance. This is definitely more critical with flat-tappet lifters, but it's also a must-check for roller lifters as well. Fortunately, the process is relatively straightforward and only requires a couple of specialized tools.
Here are links to some of the components and tools I used in this video:
Erson Cams & World Products: www.pbm-erson.com
0.7 to 6.0 Inch Dial Bore Gauge: amzn.to/3eaj9dr
Zero to 1.0 Inch Micrometer: amzn.to/3htiAO5
Cast Iron Micrometer Stans: amzn.to/2YDNdI4
(Note that Horsepower Monster may receive a percentage from products purchased through these links, so thanks in advance for helping out the channel!)
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I appreciate the explanation of exactly why this is important. And not just telling us we have to do it
Great stuff!
Excellent explanation & I learnt something new.
Cheers
Thanks! And thanks for watching!
I can build the heck out of an engine but every time I watch one of his videos it’s a reminder I’ve been doing it wrong for years lol thanks for all the help love to see more.
Thanks for the education. Cheers.
Telescope gauges (he refers to these as "snap" gauges) can be highly accurate for small bore measurements. It all depends on who's using them and how experienced they are with this tool.
Amen, Thank you for saying so!
Many machinists etc have made their living sizing bores quite accurately with telescopes for decades.
I couldn't help but notice, he doesn't show or properly explain just Exactly how to use the tool.
Maybe He never had to.
Good comment.
He’s using them entirely wrong.
I trained as a precision machinist in the 70's. (mainly to modify parts to fit things they 'shouldn't 😊)
Many years later (2000's) taught people how to use 'T' gauges at Motorcycle Mechanics Institute 'Machine Shop'
It was only a three week course and covered all the basics of engine measurement. (it's been dropped for several years now as 'no one' rebuilds motorcycle engines 🙄)
With some care and practice, you can quite easily get to within 0.0002" (two tenth's of a thousandth of inch)Maybe I should dig out the Go Pro and make a short video how to use one? (and a 'better' easier way to use bore gauges)
I learnt something new😀.
I always do.
Yeah to heck with solid lifters
I am struggling to find the link you said in the video for the micro set
Curious, when you try to "Narrowest point"... is that typically when the needle goes counter clockwise or clockwise? I'm trying to figure out wheres the 0 position if i were to rock it back and forth.
I might be confusing myself. I'm sure the answer is when the needle goes backwards/past the 0 mark going counter-clockwise then zero out the gauge by moving the dial and recheck to redial the measurement...
at your 6:13 clip, i'm guessing the above was too confusing. So pretty much its either the minimum to highest point in the needle reading and choose where you want to zero it out at and remeasure how far it move and that's the varying clearance between the bore.
I love your engine building tips. Keep this going!
If you have already zero'ed out the dial bore gauge in your micrometer and you are checking the bore clearance, the narrowest point is where the dial is closest to zero. So it should be moving clockwise (moving toward 0). Hope that helps, and thanks for the kind words!
@@TheHorsepowerMonster ok. Thank you
What would happen if I put a roller lifter set on a hydraulic flat tappet cam? Obviously would need set with links like u showed
You will usually see a loss in performance. Not sure if you have ever noticed, but the lobe on a flat tappet cam is usually pretty pointed while a roller cam is as tall but more blunt. This is because the flat tappet has a large face, as the lobe of the cam raises it up, it stays up as the lobe reaches the far side of the face. A roller lifter obviously doesn't have that wide face. If you put a roller lifter on a flat tappet camshaft, the lifter (and thus, the valve) will reach maximum lift more slowly and drop back down more quickly. That's why the roller lobe on a camshaft is wider, or more blunt, to help hold the valve near maximum lift longer. Kind of difficult to explain, but I hope this helps. Thanks for watching.
An excellent video, but I believe misses some important information the at home or inexperienced engine builders need.
Most engines/blocks the viewers are working with are used, and the bronze bushed or enlarged lifter bores are out of budget for them.
Flat tappet lifters can be used in bores with as much as .003" clearance with a little extra (and simple) work to the block.
Usually what causes flat tappet lifter failures IS lack of rotation, but because of another issue not mentioned.
The bottom of the lifter bores see the side loading as lobe pushes the lifter up, the very bottom edge of the lifter bores will dig into or bind the lifter enough to keep the lifter from spinning and wipe out the cam and lifter(s)
Flip the block upside-down, and with 800 to 1000 grit "wet-or-dry" sand paper and a light oil - automatic trans fluid works fine - polish the sharp edge of the lifter bores off. Just take that sharp edge off, that's all that needed, just enough to take that very corner off.
This will keep the lifter from binding and let the lifter spin. Actually this should be done on new freshly machined blocks also - even on roller lifter applications because that sharp edge will score and gouge the lifter and cause more problems later.
Another common reason for this kind of lifter failure comes from having a block baked and blasted at a shop.
Most shops use beads not sand to blast the block clean, the problem comes in that the beads will roll the edge of the lifter bores towards the bores - unless this metal is removed it will also cause the lifter to bind or drag in the bore, or at the least gouge the lifters.
We've been in the race and/or street engine service field for some time and have not had a flat tappet cam failure yet, so I know this information works.
Otherwise a Fantastic video, and well explained!
Excellent points.
@@TheHorsepowerMonster
Thanks!
The telescope gauge is a very accurate method. To use it properly one lets is spring open, one then snugs (not tighten like no tomorrow, just snug) the screw and rocks the telescope gauge over "top dead center" to explain what we would be doing, this gets the telescope gauge right at the hole size. I think if you practiced a bit you would quickly see how accurate it really is :-). The downfall of the telescope gauge and even the dial bore gauge is that they do not tell us exactly what size plug would fit in the hole due to the hole not being perfectly round :-). This is true of any 2 point measurement.
images.app.goo.gl/Digi3r7dXppCrQuS8
This is a much better way overall. I spent a few decades machining holes to within +0.0000" minus 0.0005", for close tolerances we verified with two methods, the hole micrometer and gage pins were quite often the two methods. The dial bore gauge is not "bad", but there are better ways, one good feature of the dial bore gauge is you can rock it to "top dead center" then slide it up and down the bore looking for taper or barrel shape to the hole.
That's true. But a three-point bore micrometer is a very expensive piece of equipment. Usually over $300 for the cheapest. A little much for the hobby level engine builder, which is what I assume is most of the audience for this video. Likewise, being able to use a T-gauge properly so you get accurate, repeatable measurements is also an advanced skill. With these videos, I'm trying to find the right balance between ease of understanding/maximum accuracy/ and good value for any tools that may need to be purchased. Anyhow, great points and thanks for watching!
Comment on the practice of grooving the lifter bore to increase oil lubrication to the camshaft.
There is nothing wrong with it to help get a little extra oil to the lobe face when running flat tappet lifters. Used to be a pretty common practice but I rarely see it anymore. These days you can get flat tappet lifters with an EDM hole burned into the crown that injects oil right between the tappet and the cam lobe. That seems to work better than the old-school groove in the lifter bore. Thanks for watching.
@@TheHorsepowerMonster Thank you for the info. Much appreciated.
Are flat-tappet lifters that have the small oiling hole on the face, a worthwhile upgrade?
They are a great upgrade. That supply of pressurized oil directly between the lifter tappet and the face of the cam lobe can be very helpful, especially in racing applications with very aggressive cams.
Telescopic gauges are incredibly accurate, you just don’t know how to properly use them.
You have to “snap and snug”, then drag across center to find the largest spot. The plungers will will find the biggest diameter, shock you then measure.
I think 80% of the people I’ve met do not know how to properly use those measuring tools.
I’ll add that cam tunnel index is as critical as lifter bore position.
Maybe I missed something but why the hell would you go to a bigger bore Ford or Chrysler lifter which also have more mass? Isn't that just adding mass to the valvetrain and causing problems?
Not really. Mass on that side of the rocker (lifter and pushrod) isn't as sensitive to mass as the other side with the valve spring, valve, locks and retainer because of the leverage of the rocker. Meaning the lifter and pushrod are on the short side of the rocker. Hope that helps.