12V LiFePO4 Battery Series Configuration 101
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Your 12V lifepo4 battery needs to be rated for series connection to 48V. Only a few batteries on the market are not able to do this, such as the renogy "smart" 12V battery.
Every battery review video I have, we cover this or I take the BMS apart and check the voltage rating of the FETs. If a batteries manual and advertising literature do not say you can, don't do it.
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It's not just the voltage rating of the FETs. The BMS in the 100AH 12V LFP batteries I have here (wonderfully made inside, laser welded cells, proper balancing wire plastic guide, really good stuff and all for an economic price) some part of the circuitry would have blown the BMS controller if the charger would have a failure and produce an over-voltage situation and one of the series batteries BMS would shut off to protect itself (the others would have not survived).
It's not just the FETs that need to be rated for this, there is more to it.
do you know of any that are rated for series connection to 72v?
I think I just realized the reason Will’s videos are so great has to do with the editing that strings together coherent thoughts back to back without any junk or confusing filler talk. Well done sir. This level of editing has *got* to be super time consuming.
Very time consuming. And that's exactly what I'm going for! Glad you appreciate it 😁👍🏻
Agree. This vid did a great job explaining at an elementary level so was easy to follow the concepts and understand. 👍
@@WillProwsecan I series 5 pcs 12v lifepo4 to have 60v battery pack? tnx
I'm liking seeing some new 'beginner' level bids mixed in with the 'advanced' ones. All your stuff is good, but your newer vids are more polished reflecting your gained experience making them. I may never have a decent solar system with my tiny income, but I follow the 'state of the art' on this channel and never cease to learn something on each vid. This channel rocks!
Somehow your explanations are always much more clear than mine lol. I still think there is value to putting them in parallel with the charger on for a day or two before connecting in series. I don't trust that the cells inside each battery are completely balanced from the factory, especially on the cheap batteries. Also, I love those AIMS chargers! It's become one of my favorite piece of equipment.
Ha! I feel the same way about you too!!
I'm glad you think my videos are coherent! I had to stitch together so many clips and refilmed three different times haha! I am so bad on camera but I just keep trying over and over.
Yes the aims charger is fantastic! I really wish they had a 48 volt model with the same features
@@WillProwse they do, it is a 36/48v outputs 25a @36v and I think 18.75a @48v
@@WillProwse i've learned so much from your videos. I'm waiting on a video on where to put fuses in that configuration, bus bars, etc. Also, how to size the fuses. Once you do a video like that, i'll be able to finally connect my system.
@@HighTechLab no way!!! That's amazing! I need one haha
It's good that you're retouching on beginner stuff even though you've already have done it. I think this is a good route for future videos
This kind of basic solar video reminds me of the days when Will was poor living in his Rv and I was thinking I could do the same, and I did, don't think I will be making the same leap to a huge house and a Tesla but thats fine, Im very comfortable and independent which is partly due to what I learnt from this channel :)
Honestly....I have no clue about this topic, but you make things so understandable. I would honestly pay for a full course from absolutely beginner for someone who has no knowledge but wants to learn. Like this is a battery and this is an inverter, and go through how to set up an system from start to finish with a materials list etc. You are so clear and concise with how you deliver your knowledge! Thank you!!!
Always love hearing battery talk! Even if I know it , there is some new piece of info I learn or re-remember. Thx !
Great post Will. You are a natural teacher/ instructor. You are clear and concise.
Well done, once again Will.
Very clear and detailed for your viewers!
always love the way you explain all the basics again, especially to new comers..
Thank you for another excellent video. Voltage and state of charge are not intuitive concepts. You did a nice job explaining them. Thanks again
Great video!! I’m so glad to see beginner videos. I’m an electrician so I understand a lot of your videos but still learn even from these type videos.
Do more like this, please. We appreciate you expertise, Will.
Simple, straight forward just like i like it....pls do more of this!
Watching for a year and just what I wanted clarified today. Thanks!
I've learned a lot from you young man, thanks for sharing your knowledge and making it understandable.
Like this beginner stuff on batteries, solar, charges and all the beginner stuff. Starting to understand👍
Remember , everyday NEW people are entering the market… all they know is what you say today… what was said 3 years ago , while valid , is not as relevant as newer info on newer equipment…. Plus , your better at the teaching thing than when you lived in that van and didn’t have the resources you do now… great job young man… in a world of so many slacker kids, you are to be commended …….👍
This kid is incredible. He knows more about the systems than the manufacturers or their engineers.😍😍😍😍😍🇺🇸
Another good video, Will; I just bought that charger a month ago.
Thanks Will. I like the beginner stuff!
That comment on state of charge vs voltage is a good point brother.
This is extremely helpful. Thank you!
Great information. Thanks Don
Will coming through with another banger 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
Another great video Will!!.
Folks: Not all batteries are rated for putting 4 in series. Be sure to check how many in series your particular brand & model can support.
Some, including Renogy 100ah, are for parallel only connection.
Chins says can go 4 in series for 48v and 4 in parallel making it 4s4p aka 16 batteries. Up to 800ah Total.
Another good video, Will....
Thanks for thinking of those of us who are solar challenged. ☀️
very useful, thank you
I found the video useful I appreciate you taking the time to make it. I also like very detailed videos which this was even though it was short if the video is really detailed and was an hour-long I would watch it
Great explanation!
Some good info for sure lots to know thank you
Once again coming in clutch Will 👏👏. Today I attempted to explain this.. now I can just share your link and your explanations are much easier and right to the point compared to my jibber ish 🤣
😂😂
Good job, makes sense.
Thanks.. I appreciate your time and effort..
Great video
Thank you for the video report .
Excellent video great content very informative thank you for sharing this six stars
So cool!
Thanks for that information will very interesting. Have a good week. M
Hi good video Will.
That's actually a very nice charger with PFC (power factor correction). PFC means it is more energy efficient. It also means it works well with a true sign wave generator, don't use it with a modified sine wave cheap generator. Good video that covers the important parts for entry level series batteries.
I'm glad you brought that up. I recently bought that charger and was going to ask that very question on the forums. Are you speaking of the inverter or an actual generator? I have a Giandel 4k 24-volt pure sine wave inverter but have a regular gasoline/propane 4kw generator in my RV.
@@CajunWolffe A regular non inverter generator will work fine. There may be some modified sine wave generators out there and those would not be a good match for pfc switch mode power supplies that the charger essentially is
@@CajunWolffe Most modified sine wave (anything, generator or inverter) are a poor source for a PFC power supply or charger. I haven't tried this charger on one, but they will work, but at substantially reduced efficiency. Frequently if used long enough, the PFC charger or power supply will eventually die, they just really aren't designed for use with a square wave or even "modified sine wave" source. A good quality PFC will work without damaging itself, but I wouldn't recommend it.
@@williamvaughan1218 That's what I'm thinking as my generator is just that, a generator, gasoline, or propane-powered engine turning an alternator producing 120/240 Vac depending on which way I throw the switch. It does a near-perfect 60htz at 60% load running my 15k BTU A/C and anything else. The electrical contractor who parks his work trucks a few slots down from where my RV is parked showed me how bad the utility power outlets were in comparison, dang!
@@john_in_phoenix I agree, but as mentioned, I have a standard generator; it's not a PSW or MSW type.
You get younger 😁 , thank you for teach us
Arg, I made sure all my 12v LIFEPO4 voltages were the same before putting them in series. Whoops. Gotta take them apart and get that last bit of capacity with the charger. Thanks for the video, Will, you da man.
Your videos are the bomb. Thank you!
We are building our boat's diesel replacement with two sets of 4 battleborn in this exact configuration with an oceanvolt 5. something kw motor. If the range requires and additional set of 4 we will invest. We were considering the additional 4 in series to use as primary house with the option of backup propulsion if required. If our initial set of four have been used for, let's say, a year before adding the additional series of four (battleborns) will there be issues we should consider?
Hi Will, yet another great and insightful video.
Question though? does this also apply to solar gel batteries too? especially where I'm doing a series connection and connecting a system for the first time?
I'd been wondering if I set up my 24v pack for my portable solar rig right after seeing some other claims as to the proper technique, but I am relieved that I actually did what you recommend: charged my (20Ah Eco-Worthy) LFP batteries to full individually with a ToolkitRC charger's LFP profile, let them rest a bit then put them in series... though I admit, I haven't done a full capacity test because with my wee digital load battery tester, 512WHr is actually a lot to get through and I did capacity test the individual batteries when I got them.
Thanks for setting my mind at ease!
Which video would be the best one to watch for your house installation? I see you have a big list but would be hard to find what i am looking for. Thanks for the help!
Thanks.
Hi Will great video, thanks for the clear explanation! Could you also do this with 3 batteries to get 36v? And would it be possible to balance them with 2 victron battery balancers?
Keep those 101 coming please
Thank you for these videos. When you have these 12.8v life4po batteries with a built in BMS connected in a series or parallel, do you need to add an external BMS?
Ty sir
Another straight to the point video that I really appreciate thanks. I have been using flooded batteries for the last 18 years on my home and now trying to wrap my head around changing to lithium with my first 2V cell of my 24V system playing up. I keep reading that a series connection with lithium is advised against due to the imbalance between cells over time. Is this really a concern or can it be easily dealt with. Cheers
Enjoy your informative videos.
I currently have 8 Roll’s S-550 (6V, 438 ah) lead acid batteries for our cottage off grid solar system.
What would you recommend for a comparable replacement lithium batteries set up?
Cheers
LOL, 7 years of doing this, but when I see "beginner friendly", it make me more likely to watch.
Hey Will, great video. Thank you. What lithium charger do you recommend? Which brand/model is the one you used in the video to balance your batteries please?
Will, I am enjoying all of your videos regarding LiFePO4 batteries. Keep the videos coming!!I purchased 4 Chins 12V 100ah batteries to connect in series and for some reason when they are fully charged using a 48v HTRC charger, the BMS shuts down the charger (shows Full) at 53ah. I also charged each individual battery with a 12v HTRC charger and each battery showed 14.4v when fully charged, but I didn't have a way to check total ahs for each battery. I reconnected in series again and still only get 54ah at full charge and shut off of charger. Any thoughts or suggestions to get more ahs
Tim
I think serial is pretty easy. I'd love to see a parallel tutorial!
Will do you have a similar video for a parallel connection?
Watched immediately,hahaha , very educational video exactly for me, it's gonna be bomb 4 zooms and growatt 5000 12 panels,pure beauty.Go solar , keep up with the video's
So does configuring parallel or series depend on how much space you have to work with and thank you for helping me to understand what a 48 volt series is 👍
Hello Will, greetings from the Uk ,i have 4 batteries like these that i plan to put into series connecting to a 3000w inverter, what suze fuse would i need to use for this system?
Many thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge.
Stephen
THANKS for the info Will. Can you tell me the Make of LiPo Charger you were showing in this video. TKS
AIMS Power CON120AC1224DC AC Converter & Battery 12V or 24V Smart Charger 75 amps Listed to UL 458 & CSA
Thanks for this video. Question regarding setting voltage on my battery charger. I have a Beleeb BLC 20 and I’d like to charge 4 12V LifePO batteries connected in series. Should the charger be set to 48V or 12V?
Ty
You're a candle in the darkness.
If you used that 48v combination for a golf cart would it be better to use a 48v charger or 4 bank 10 amp charger like the Noco? Thanks!
What about later on balancing when the pack is in use? Is there an external balancer needed, like on AGM battery system’s for example?
Great video Will. I converted my sailboat from diesel to electric propulsion in 2008 with a 48 volt battery bank using 8A4D AGM batteries. Thinking about converting to Lithium. Looks like I will need four separate 12 volt Lithium chargers to keep the packs balanced right? I would also need four 12 solar controllers too one for each battery in the string. Is that correct?
Thanks mate if I do connect them in series and each batteries has its own BMS build in can do I need a outsider BMS that can be connected to a inverter to monitor every battery individually?
Hi Will, How about installing a Victron balancer???
Hi Will, not relate to 12V system but i want to ask you, in one of your video that connect 2 x 6548 system to the sub panel off grid style, you bond neutral and ground together in the sub-panel, is that require? I am setting up a similar system but only using 120V single phase instead of 240 because i only have one AIO inverter.
Will, thanks for sharing this video… it was great for us beginners. 😊
My only question is if I have a SOK battery that will allow a charge of up to 50 A what type of fuse do I put on the positive. Would it be a 50 amp fuse? also does one go on the negative end?
The fuse is more related to how much power you are going to draw from the battery, ie inverter size. Depending on your power needs you then need to calculate the wire size based on that amperage and the length of the wire. The fuse is usually about 1.25 times the amperage draw. The charger will have it's own limitations and fused accordingly. The positive side is the only one you need to fuse, as close to the battery as possible.
Do you recommend using a bench charger to top balance individual EVE type 3.6v cells, or put them together with a BMS and use a 12/24/48 v LiFePo4 capable charger like you have listed and do a few charge/discharge cycles?
Have you tried banana oil to open glued plastic cases? is amazing opening small glued plastic cases, may be useful to open bigger ones too
Once I charged my batteries one at a time and then immediately put in series. Charger tried to bring up to bulk voltage for a few minutes. The one fresh off the charger started to go over voltage even with the correct settings. From then on I always top balance them together in parallel first instead of one at a time.
I've got four Chins 12v300a connected in 2 series 2 paralell. I did this with constant communication with Chins customer service which is amazing and quick to respond. They even toll me my max continous watt inverter I can connect, 5000w, so I'm very safely using a 24v3000w(6000w surge) inverter. Charged them individually to 100% them 2S2P connected them. Life's not just good but great with 15kW battery backup energy for overnight. Now if I can only get enough solar panels to charge to 100% from a nightly, and continuous 5000ish watt draw down. Exactly angled 1600w panels are providing more than I expected. I'm thinking another 400w panels will get me there. At least I hope because that's all the patio roof space I have left. I might need to do some ground mounts 😎
Will, thanks for this video. I have a question for you. I am planning on putting together an off-grid solar system for a cabin out in the middle of nowhere AZ. I figured my peak load to be about 2.8KW so I am building a 3.8KW solar system out of 10-panels, 8 batteries, 2-3000W inverters for split phase and the appropriate charge controllers and bridges, fuses etc...My question is, based on the load I just presented to you would you recommend a 24V or 48V setup for the batteries? I plan on purchasing 8 of the battleborn since I can pick up locally and they are highly rated for quality and longevity. LMK. Thanks.
what are your thoughts on Battleborn style cylindrical cells vs the prismatic cells that you normally use in your builds? cost not being a factor at all would you go with cylindrical or prismatic?
Hey there will, I've been asking around trying to figure out the best way to charge my three AGM batteries for my work truck. I have them wired in parallel. I bought a NOCO 10x3 thinking I need to hook them all up but for some reason that doesn't sound right can I get away with just a 10x1?
Thanks for this video but I have a question. Is there any rule about having the cables the same length saying that I had to place all four sideways and two of them about 2 feet away from the other two. Thanks
@2.02 answer a question I had about diy cells to create a 12v battery. If you top balance each cell the natural voltage drop would mean the first to be top balanced would be at a different voltage to the last one top balanced but it seems to not matter?
Lithium ion charger you spoke to can it be used to Balance the battery packs in my hybrid vehicle? Will it work with both?
Great video Will! Would you do a parallel video too? In the Ice fishing and kayak communities I see a lot of guys wire batteries in parallel and they land the positive and negative wires to the load on the same battery.
Great video. Yes would appreciate a setup in parallel please. How to connect? Buzz bar? Do we have to charge them fully. What amp protection is needed? Using two 206Ah SOKs. Thanks in advance
@@johnmccormick2398 two batteries is pretty straight forward. Positive to positive and negative to negative. Make your connection to your system from the positive of one battery and the negative side of the other battery. Try and keep the wire lengths between the batteries the same length and thickness and don't forget to put the appropriate size fuse or circuit breaker on the positive side as close to the battery as possible.
Hi Will, I've been watching your channel for a while and I've always been interested in solar. I've done some projects but I have one that I'm stuck on. I would love to run this water pump on solar but I'm not sure what I'll need. It is a 1.5HP., 115V, 15A motor.
I tried using a 2500W inverter but it tripped the breaker. Any thoughts?
Hi Wil, can you use the lithium charger on lead acid Battery's?
I have just found that there are equalizers available that can balance 12 volt batteries in series. I got one from PowMr HA02 that cost me $65.55 in Australia. It appears to do a good job on balancing cheap 12 volt LIFEPO4 batteries. I have only had it a day and a half so how well it lasts I can not say. I am using it for 48volt.
Can you put any of the lifepo 4 lithium iron phosphate batteries in series that's out there on the market some people saying you can't put them in series others say you can
The charger in your description and on your website has been discontinued due to QC issues. Do you have another recommendation? Thanks.
I have a question, when you wire up 2 12v lifpo4 batteries in a series to make 24v, does the bms in wash battery keep them both balanced???
Hey guys, whatever you do - don't parallel connect your brand matched batteries to equalize SOC (state of charge) before you put them back in series - you need to buy a charger and charge them one-by-one. Will was happy to explain this to me in another post I made on this video.
With lithium with separate input and output you can connect output in series and input in parallel so no need to connect and disconnect them. That's why china does this
Can you use the same 12V charger to charge them in series after you put them in the same SOC?
Are there any lifepo4 batteries you can wire in series for a 72v golf cart?
Will, I like your RV-specific videos. They can't be beaten. I would like to know more about hooking two Battle Born's in parallel and wiring and lengths of wire and gauge of wire. Most of us RV people who like your videos are not running an inverter all the time; so 24 or 48 volts is something that does not teach us much. I understand if you have a big RV that you would do this. I have a 20' trailer but do want the power reserve of two Battle Borns in parallel. I have a Victron lithium charger. Do I charge the parallel setup or do I have to charge them separately?
I initially did charge each battery to full and then I ran them in parallel.
12v 400ah is the same capacity of 48v 100ah
You can charge the parallel set up. I hope you are connected to the positive side of one of the batteries and the negative side of the other battery in your parallel set up. It's basically one big battery that way.
I think much of what you want to know is in his earlier videos or his book.
Could you tell us what would be the amperage rating for the circuit breakers protection for the strings of 48V out of different 12V battery array? Thanks
What about charging all in parallel!! Will they not balance themselves, then Will? Good videos by the way. lots of new chargers on AliExpress, looking for a good 18pin charger!! Can you recommend on one? Regards George.
Will, I have a question about a new battery i am building: I have 32 LiFePO4 cells, each 200AH, and want to build a 48V pack -- I originally designed it with 16 pairs of cells, to minimize bus bars. But, after seeing your comments about parallel battery subsystems it made me wonder if I would be better off with two complete single cell chains and a fuse at the top (+) of each one; this way if one cell fails bad there would still be half the pack available until I fixed it. I know it would take two BMSs or balancers or both, but what do you think the pros and cons are when you have control of the cell connection architecture?
what's better to use on a boat? series or parallel for more ah?