Should You Parallel LiFePO4 Batteries? // 200Ah Goldenmate LiFePO4 Battery
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- #ModernNomad #MobileLiving #lifepo4battery
In this video, I will explain to you whether you should connect 2 batteries together, the reasons why, why not, and what I personally recommend.
NOTE: This battery DOES HAVE low temperature protection contrary to what I said in the video at 0:40. That is especially amazing at this price point.
Get this battery: freelyroaming.com/goldenmate
Final Price: 464.99
Original Price: 619.99
Discount: 25% Code
Code: 14IQ9643
(The code is also valid for 100Ah model)
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:24 LiFePO4 Basics
03:36 Series vs Parallel
04:40 Is It Safe?
06:23 Why Is LiFePO4 Like This?
07:13 Why Is AGM Not Like This?
08:03 Goldenmate 200Ah LiFePO4 Battery
08:47 Advantages of a Bigger Battery
10:15 Disadvantages of a Bigger Battery
11:08 Conclusion
#GOLEDENMATE #GOLEDENMATELiFePO4Battery
Start Date: 2023-06-28 05:00 AM PDT
Expire Date: 2023-07-08 23:59 PM PDT
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Get this battery: freelyroaming.com/goldenmate
Final Price: $464.99 + Tax (Original Price: $619.99) 25% Off Promo Code: 14IQ9643 (The code is also valid for 100Ah model)
NOTE: This battery DOES HAVE low temperature protection contrary to what I said in the video at 0:40. That is especially amazing at this price point.
I like using 100Ah times 2 just for redundancy , if one bms happens to go down i can disconnect the failed one and continue until it can be replaced and still have power during a trip .
thats not a bad idea.
Nice video with good info. Greetings from Jamaica.
You got me hooked, now I'm watching your channel.... 😂
In my bus/motorhome I have a 24 volt system.
I have two 300Ah 24 volt batteries in parallel.
I have 3 x 700watt panels on the roof
thats a great setup
You almost never face issue when one battery is full while another significantly lower when connect batteries in parallel. Higher charge state => higher voltage => lesser voltage difference between charger and battery => lesser current .... and vice-versa.
Meaning once one battery getting higher charge state than other battery - its charge current will shorten while other battery charge current increase. Absolutely same situation with discharge.
The only note could be taken into account - you cannot use batteries which have significantly different voltage at same charge state: for example we have 2 batteries at 50% charge state but one is 3.30 while another 3.25. That means battery system slowly become unbalanced because higher voltage battery will charge lower voltage battery until voltage equalization.
PS: Feel free to connect batteries in parallel if you want to (for example for redundancy/safety purpose). Even different capacities can be connected together - it will work, but not expect ideal result - anyway it will sacrifice some energy for equalization.
PPS: have 2 batteries with 100A BMS in parallel don't allow you to power 200A device - current will be split between batteries uneven (even batteries very similar - they not 100% exact and their use conditions like wires length, heating/cooling not the same while temperature affect internal resistance)
For storage and solar power use these guidelines especially when used with a large bussbar are nearly irrelevant as proven by Will Prouse and others if wired correctly, BMS’s ofcourse should be same size.
Batteries like this you are showing would be great if they just had a decent bms. They have great cells but junk bms
they are definitely built to a price.
When I emailed chins they said you can hook up to 4-100ah batteries together for a 12v system.
it all depends on what BMS they are using in their battery pack. I don't know what Chins is using but if they say you can do it, then go with that.
Very nice 👌 👍 😮
i have a SOK 206AH with a 100A BMS and it wont run any normal household appliances like a induction cook top or espresso machine or insta pot. it trips the BMS. im using a Samlex 1500 pure sine inverter but have tried other inverters and no luck. i called tech support and they say inverters are 80% efficeient so the BMS should trip at 80A and thats normal. i guess i have to order another SOK 206AH so i can parallel them just to run a blender. im using 4awg wire?
100A BMS can only push 1280w max. That's why it's tripping. You need a battery with a bigger BMS or yes, a second one in parallel will also do the trick.
@@freelyroaming true but mine is tripping at anything over 800W. since my post i learned the bms has bluetooth and the app shows it tripping at 81 amps. any thoughts
Greetings! I believe you are exactly correct in my case. Bought a 40 amp charger with the specs 14.6 for Lithium batteries. My charger cuts off @ 14.3 instead of the 14.6. My Valence batteries all have the same BMS. Like you mentioned the BMS somehow is cutting off the charger before it reaches 14.6 volts. What is odd is i have another charger that charges the batteries to 14.6 exactly and then the green light comes on on the charger. I'm not sure why the my 40 amp charger cant reach the 14.6 fully charge, unless the BMS does not like the 40 amps and prefers the 20 amp charger esp when it gets close to the 14.6 volts?
If your battery is at 14.3 volts you should *not* be charging at 40 amps!
@@MrSummitville the charger will not put out 40amps when it reaches that voltage
@@mannyfragoza9652 Your charger is doing something wrong, if the BMS is detecting a fault.
Only if the charger and BMS are programmed to the same charging voltage. Not always the case.
@@freelyroaming Good point! the charger had some issues. It almost exploded on me while I was changing 4-pac Lithium cells making an explosive noise like a shotgun going off. I haven't used that charger since.
Its best to just buy a 24 volt battery if you have a 24 volt system. If you have a 12 volt system you can run them in parallel with not any problems. They will drop in voltage at the same time. If you want a lot of capacity in 24 volts buy 24 volt batteries qnd run them in parallel. Its not good to put this kinda battery in series unless you are building your own battery. Ive built a few different chemistry batteries... nmc... lifepo4.. its best to build them for the voltage and capacity you need with the correct bms.
yes i agree.
I'm also in California. Amazon shows the price as $619.99. ???
Add it to your cart and use the promo code during checkout.
I have a 24v 480 ah bank made up of the following. Eight 280ah Eve cells, two 12v 100 ah Chins batteries in series, and two 12v 100ah power bot batteries in series, connected oin parallel to the Eve pack. I have never had any problems with the setup as long as I don't charge the Eve cells above 3.45v/ cell, or discharge them below 50 % capacity. The Eve cells will continue to charge after the two sets of 24v 100amp batteries are full. The BMS inside the Chins and Power Bot batteries will turn the charging off when they are full. The Eve cells I purchased brand new and were certified A grade and matched for resistance. Despite this, it was impossible to keep the cells equally charged above 3.50v even with a JK BMS that has 2amp balancing. So, my experience has been not to charge them above 3.45 if I want all the cells to stay relatively balanced. I'm thinking of just getting rid of it all in favor of a 300 volt system. The high amperage of a low volt system is what will get you in trouble.
I build my own 280Ah Lifepo4 batttery. The 4pcs 280Ah Lifepo4 cells cost each 80Dollars, the BMS was 72Dollars (Jikong with 2A balancing) and a 5A active balancer for 20Dollars which is able to manage the doubble capacity if i would like to add 4pcs 280Ah Lifepos more. Total costs are 412Dollars for 280Ah, with 560Ah capacity 732Dollars. THIS WAY you get the most out of your bugs! And you have full temperature control, an App to watch into your battery and make some userdefined settings if you would like to tune the preset parameters.
The larger the Ah rating of the cell the easier it is on the battery overall because the load is shared with more cells in the pack. A 12 50Ah pack will have to handle more current per cell than a 200Ah pack of the same voltage. Protect your system with a larger Ah battery. Your batteries will thank you.If you have room for 400Ah go for it. If you have room for 600Ah go for it. You also increase the capacity of your pack and can run off grid for longer periods between charging.
Again for off grid use this is less critical than high current draw EV use. We are using these systems are far lower current draws and when we do, it is rare and in short bursts. Something like 0.2C is considered a high rate for this kinda use with a 200Ah pack. If money and space is no issue, sure, get the biggest pack you can afford and fit.
@@freelyroaming Correct, for off grid it IS less critical but it will also increase the life of your system. I use 200Ah for my little trailer because it is all the room I have. I'd double it if I had the room.
@@onegreenev I don't really see myself getting anywhere near the end of life of these battery packs with off grid use. It is far more likely that I will find some reason to upgrade before I'm anywhere near that. That reason alone makes it not worth the extra cost to have more battery capacity than necessary just to extend the life expectancy that I already won't need.
@@freelyroaming That is your personal choice. others may need a setup that WILL last a long time and give excellent results. Also more capacity will mean you can be dry camping for longer periods and in inclement weather where there are longer times between good charging from your solar panels or grid that is a difference between a shorter outing or miserable one. My purpose is to let others know the benefits of large capacity vs lower capacity. Beyond that it is really a personal choice. I choose as large as I can fit. Im limited to 200Ah in my current setup. My home system will be around 800Ah worth of modules when Im done. More is better if you can. Same for an EV.
@@onegreenev that is also your personal choice. In fact, everything you are saying are your personal choices. More is not always better. Every choice comes with sacrifices. Perhaps you need to make your own video on your own channel about that if you feel so strongly about sharing those personal opinions. These comments should stick to the topic of this video which is not what you are derailing into.
LiFePO4 cells are just a pack of cells in parallel to reach a specific Ah. If I take two of them and put them in parallel I have in effect made one cell. So if each battery cell is 100Ah then two will give you 200Ah but the two are connected with a heavy cable plate or what ever vs just being all in one package. Be sure the connections are stout enough for the current requirements you expect to use. So If I had a bundle of 100Ah cells I can put like 6 in parallel for a 600Ah 3.2 nominal Cell. Now I can take four of those and put them in series giving you a 600Ah 12 volt Battery. In the end I will be putting 2 in parallel for 200Ah then 45 of those pairs for a 200Ah 144v system for my converted VW. For my power wall I am using a different setup. Nissan Leaf Modules. Those modules are 2 parallel and 2 series in each module for nominal 7.2v battery module that is 60Ah. Im connecting to modules in parallel then 7 of those pairs in series for a 48v off grid battery pack at around 120Ah but in reality the Ah is not that much because the modules have lost some capacity while in the vehicle driving it around for a few years. Im looking at around 50Ah each right now. It works and my battery monitoring system works too and will shut down if the cells go below a specified voltage and if the pack goes below a specified voltage. I can also monitor all the cells for voltage at a glance to see if any are lower than the others in capacity. The Leaf Modules remain in balance rather well. Never had to re-balance any of them. I did bottom balance them all at the start of the project. I bottom balance no matter the lithium battery chemistry. I monitor each cell so I can see at a glance. Monitoring is simple and I just need to flip a switch to turn on the monitors and check the voltage levels. The BMS just manages and shuts down on over or under voltage.
The issue that comes into play is the settings of the BMSs when you have multiple packs connected together. If they are not programmed the same way, they can play poorly with each other. Especially when they are connected in series. Top or bottom balancing really depends on how you intend on using the pack. One is not better than the other for all purposes. Because you are running EVs, that is why you bottom balance. Off-grid power use is better to top balance. But that is a topic for a whole separate video in itself.
@@freelyroaming I disagree about balancing. My experience is bottom is always the best. If the whole pack goes below the threshold for any reason they all go below equally. If for some reason the BMS fails and the pack goes below the threshold you will have all those mis matched cells go to zero and die an untimely death. If you are placing multiple packs throughout your RV or home yet connected to the same electrical gird I'd say you need to get all your cells together so you can easily wire them all up with ONE BMS. Battery Monitor System. I do not condone the use of charge balancers for these because a BMS can't monitor itself and can fail. If it fails It doesn't know to shut it off because it lost communication with itself. I have seen this from OEM BMS systems. I have a redundant system. One that monitors all the cells and one that monitors the pack. If one fails the other takes over. Yes, both could fail but less likely it would happen at the same time if a failure occurred.
@@onegreenev we will just agree to disagree. I don't know how often you have used off grid power but it is very rare that cells go anywhere near the bottom. It is far more often that they are at the top. Basically daily in fact. If you are worried about BMS failures at the bottom end, they can fail just as easily at the top end and the problems there isn't just cell damage, it can be catastrophic and life threatening. Top balancing is far safer in that situation.
And again, this is outside of the scope of this video. We are talking about connecting ready-built factory packs, not DIY packs.
I can draw 200 amps from my 200 amp rebel battery
Sure. As long as the BMS allows it. This one doesn't.
Parallel packs don’t care if one battery fills faster than the others. The slower packs/higher resistance will catch up and even out with faster/lower resistance packs.
It's not always true. With slow charging and closely balanced packs perhaps but with high current charging you risk overcharging. The flat voltage curve means that it is hard to determine actual battery capacity until it is near full. This also means the batteries are rarely in conditions where they are able to self balance from each other.
@@freelyroaming Generally speaking there is no real risk of overcharging LiFePO4 cells, even when charging slowly, as long as the BMS does its job properly and reasonable parameters are chosen for the charger.
A 3.55V/cell target (e.g. 14.2V if paralleling 12V 4s batteries), holding that target for roughly 2 hours (the current tail is typically around 30 minutes but you want to hold it longer to give the battery's internal BMS's time to balance their cells_, and then dropping to float (float is 3.35Vcell to 3.375V/cell, e.g. 13.4V to 13.5V).
That will work just fine even if you wind up charging at a very slow 0.05C rate.
LiFePO4 cells can easily tolerate being charged to 105% SOC without taking any appreciable damage. You don't want to hold the cells there forever, or more to the point you don't want to hold a high target voltage such as 3.55V/cell forever. But most of the stress is relieved the instant the system drops to float, even if the cells remain near 100% SOC for a long time.
A LIFepO4 battery bank just isn't going to care about being charged to full that way on a daily basis in a cyclical daily charging situation where there are regular loads on the system.
Parallel packs can develop a SOC offset during charging and discharging of the cable lengths aren't constructed properly (usually proper construction is main positive on one end of the parallel pack and main negative on the other end). Even so, this offset generally never exceeds 10% even in the worst topological configuration so the additional hold time at the charge target voltage almost never amounts to more than 10-20 minutes or so beyond the 2 hours one normally wants to hold at the charge target.
If you are still worried and you have very low regular loads or no regular loads, you can further relieve stress simply by putting a load on the system for a few minutes after charging is complete to drop the SOC to 98% and the voltage down to its float level more quickly.
Im now working on going for 2 batteries, 2x840AH, so possible worst of both worlds, but I thought making it one 1680AH battery would be even worse
its 24x3.2V 280AH cells, placed in 2x 4S3P
I am full electric in the camper (cook electric, electric heating everything)
That's ambitious but sounds like a great upgrade. More important than battery capacity when going full electric is getting enough solar to top it all off. Especially for anyone who tend to stay multiple days in the same spot. Looks like you've got a ton on your fire truck build 👍
@@freelyroaming so I currently run 6x 12v 220AH AGM batteries
And I have 4x335WP solar on my roof.
Travelling around europe I do not need to plug in at all from march till october, but with current AGM setup I have about 2-3 days between charges in winter (with the little solar and alternator power i get), hoping to push that to 5 days with the upgrade.
Also current systems weighs about 360kg, will go down to 160, so thats also a win
@@Okkebeltman the weight savings will be massive. Europe is tough for solar in the winter for sure.
redundancy is nice when buying cheap batteries. A lot to be said for 2 BMS units when you're hours or days from any kind of even lead acid battery store.
Not when it can be the reason for its failure.
One issue is the size of individual cells.
Most 12V batteries contain four cells connected in series. If you have a 100Ah battery, it contains four 100Ah cells. If you have a 200Ah battery, it contains four 200Ah cells.
The problem is that higher capacity cells are larger, and LiFePO4 cells have very little internal structure.
Larger cells are more likely to be damaged when exposed to shock. That is, in an RV you're better off with a pair of 100Ah batteries in parallel, instead of a single 200Ah battery. Especially if you off-road.
Unless, of course, you can find a 200Ah battery that uses 8 100Ah cells internally, or 16 50Ah, 32 25Ah, etc.
Though most LiFePO4 manufacturers don't advertise their internal cell construction, so you may need to do some digging.
200Ah prismatic cells are very popular. In fact, 280-300Ah cells are also very popular and very good value for their capacity. You can see on my channel several videos of building 4S packs using those exact cells. These budget packs are most likely using just 4 cells rather than 8 to simplify and lower the cost of manufacturing.
@@freelyroaming Yep. And those 380Ah cells are fine, in stationary environments.
But guidelines for sailboats set 200Ah as the max cell size, and I'd expect off-road RVs to be a tougher environment than sailboats.
@@jeffdege4786 We've been using the 280Ah cells in our camper van full time across 43 countries and 4 continents over the last 3 years. No problems. No noticeable degradation based on my recent cycles.