FOH MIXING MISTAKES NEW ENGINEERS MAKE with Dave Rat
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2020
- What are the common mistakes front of house mixing engineers make when they are first starting out in live sound? Dave Rat, founder of Rat Sound Systems and FOH engineer for Red Hot Chili Peppers, tells us about the most common stumbling blocks of live mixing and how to mix live music like an experienced professional.
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Disclaimer: This description contains affiliate links, which means that if you click them, I will receive a small commission at no cost to you. - Věda a technologie
1:20 - kick drum worshiping
1:35 - inconsistency
1:50 - mix balance
2:02 - world wide consistency (with same band)
3:10 - good book, buildup, patience, emotional artistic journey
3:27 - respect to: sound limits, age of audience, artist, management, band, personal preference
Dave is one of the top sound dudes in the world. He don't just talk BS with out proof. he will prove it with science.
Agreed! Have you watched his show on CZcams? He's got some amazing demonstrations!
czcams.com/channels/_nJM07b0k7C9CvcM-9OH6w.html
Yeah, I subscribed to his channel recently. He drops lots of great knowledge about all sorts of things, from planning out a show (in this video) to soldering tips.
From Dave to Kush on CZcams you can simply become a top engineer just by learning from them both. Great vid.
5 minutes of the clearest, hard earned wisdom you're ever going to get about mixing live music.
Glad you enjoyed it, @Live Sound Tips!
"experienced sound human" 😆 gosh y'gotta love Dave!
Until I watched this, I thought the only thing that happened during a gig was that it got louder. Now I know better and cannot wait to put this into practice! Thanks guys.
Dave is such a humble guy that has so much knowledge. What a Legend!
Dave Rat is amazing. I LOVE how he will chart out the whole concert and figure out when to bring out which aspects of the sound to really make the whole concert sound it's best as a whole. What a fantastically musical approach. Obviously this approach takes a lot of overall planning, but what an excellent and musical approach that will make the concert really POP! Thanks for sharing this, Mr. Rat - you are a genius!
I like Dave’s musical philosophy for mixing sound! He has talked about being able to reach any knob on the console without looking down just like a musician would on stage with their instrument. Really cool guy! Thanks for watching, @bassaroo!
Dave, I wanna shake your hand someday....you have been an Absolute INSPERATION to me as an Mid Level/Club Engineer. Thank You for EVRYTHING you do for this Entire Industry....
Keeping level appropriate for the age of the audience is very important.
Planning your show dynamics to fit with the set list; softening things up at times to draw people closer and to pay attention to details all add to the impact of your presentation.
Always keep your vocals intelligible so the crowd can sing to the songs.
Be aware of anything stepping on a vocal or an instrument when soloing.
Kick and bass should be present but fit within the context of the song.
Watch the behavior of your audience. This is a very good indicator of how your mix effects people.
Irritating sounds at high volume will agitate the crowd possibly leading to fights.
Keeping the audience somewhere between very excited and very relaxed is a delicate balance.
Dave has this down to a science, this is why his shows are so memorable.
There is no substitute for rehearsal time with your act. Track your rehearsals so you can go over your mixes and design effects to fit the songs and/or duplicate the acts previous recordings.
He's right about that kick. I went to an Alter Bridge show about 6 months ago and the kick was so loud it made me feel nauseated.
Another point about being a sound engineer. You have to know how to work with and deal with musicians. Leave your ego at home and be helpful and respectful. Also do your homework and listen to the bands recorded tracks and know what they should sound like. Another one is leave the mix alone once you’ve it dialled in. Thanks Dave for all your great videos
Much respect for Dave. Thanks for this!
The very best thing a new, clueless foh engineer can do is find a new, similarly desparate act in need of a soundman, as they call it. Go to school on the real thing, or as close to it as you can find. An act who can suffer through the long, experimental soundchecks their new mixer requires. People who can be brutally frank with each other without worrying about getting fired. Both benefit together and the learning curve is friendlier, more rapid. Musicians often have better ears than beginning mixers so let a singer come out and critique your mix of the rhythm section. Much more progress results from these forgiving scenarios than a few nights of abject embarrassment in front of someone who won’t be calling you back.
The biggest issue I always see is newer engineers forget their job is to provide sound reinforcement and not sound replacement. I have a friend who has always mixed on the hotter side, but at least his mixes sound great! Some other issues would be too much low end or low mids, not knowing about High Pass Filters, not realizing that each open microphone reduces available gain before feedback! Sometimes less is more when it comes to microphones! I’m not taking issue with any of Dave’s points (I think he’s brilliant)! I’m just putting my two cents in.
Well said! Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Im so happy ive found another foh engineer have the same thoughts on kick and balance. The amount of times ive been to gigs and theres basically just kick click and cant hear anything else is insane 😅
That car analogy hit me like a truck… pun intended. I'm glad I've at least learned to not make the bass or kick center of the show for every moment lol.
great video. love listening to dave
He’s a really interesting guy to listen to! Thanks for watching!
GOGO music from DC is an exception to this as their sound was centered around the rhythm section, Kick, Bass, Congas, toms, etc.
I think if it’s intentional (and the music calls for it), then it’s not a mistake! Good point, Kevin! Thanks!
You can sum this up with 2 simple rules that a great engineer taught me a long, long time ago: 1) The QUALITY is more important that the quantity (volume), and 2) Don't be an A-hole. By the latter, he meant "ALWAYS play to the genera of music, the size of the venue, and the the type of audience you have" - if you don't consider those factors, then you're an a-hole sound engineer.
This is great
Thanks, Josh Hana! I'm glad you enjoyed the interview!
Every instrument has its own E.Q curve first rule to sound production. Know your mics . And its limits and mic preamps match mics differently . Most of what i learned! Keep noise out of the mix.
Do you go in a bank and find the teller drinking alcohol. Engineers should think before they drink.
Exactly. At minimum, alcohol exacerbates tinnitus and will negatively affect how an engineer mixes. At worst, it could provide a basis for very serious legal liability problems (for venues or bands that employ engineers) if something goes wrong at an event.
I just turn all the knobs all the way to the right (aka “full Canadian mode”) and walk away.
Dynamics. Preach it. Providers pay a lot of money to build a system that can deliver dynamics. Sucks when it never gets used.
I love how these tutorials show million dollar setups like anyone that has that kinda of equipment is gona need a turorial
That's like assuming like every Mustang owner knows how to drive a car.
"Racing to a Red light"
What makes a "mixing engineer"? Is he one who has taken a formal course on audio mixing or it can be used to anyone who mixes the audio at a live event at the front of the house?
a great mixing engineer has an audience. A bad "sound guy" can chase everyone away. I had heard top of the line bands and gear sound like crap because of a douche that can't mix.
When you can't hear the vocals on top, you are missing the mark. I have seen too many shows ruined by the kick drum mix.
Subwoofer-itis is one of the main symptoms.
Same ,I hate they use wrong speaker ,I know speaker how its work kick rumble ,kick like bass not pass .They think bass like movie in music not sub movie 😂.
He didnt said anything expect young engineers dont have enough experience:D
getting a hair transplant would make you look 2 decades younger
Sound human, lol
lol. Love it.
I don't know about that as I just make the talent sound like GOD.
"If it sounds good, it is good!" Thanks for watching, @rayjinglory productions.
@@AudioUniversity I have almost ALWAYS had to tell bands that I KNEW
weren't used to having the privilege of having a TRUE soundguy working
them to listen to me, do what I tell them, and I will make them sound like GOD.
I have had countless praise for what I do and I just go --- NAHH.
I just do what I do.
I don't really SEE myself as a soundguy as much as I consider myself a
Bass Player.
I just happen to have a good ear and KNOW what I'm doing as well as KNOW
what the band wants to sound like.
I have a great ear for mixing channels.
THAT'S the difference between being JUST a Soundguy or being a Soundguy
that actually IS a Musician.
I have actually taught HANDS ON mixing and principles of sound to a few guys
I know.
And I do it for FREE.
That's just the way I am.
And they are amazed at the compliments they get from the difference in sound
before they consulted me and then AFTER applying certain techniques I showed them.
They are surprised at how things sound with JUST working "Spatial Imaging" alone.
God I love my "Talents".
However --- I NEVER attended any schools or classes to learn what I know.
I learned it hands on out of necessity and a few OTHER reasons.
I'm good, I'll say that, but I don't consider myself THAT GOOD.
Others say different even though I won't "Toot my Horn" about it.
I know that there are LOTS of other guys that are better than me.
At least that's the way I feel about it.
I love running sound and lights just as much as I love being on stage.
ROCK TILL I DIE.
where did this guy saw hundreds of thousands of sound engineers ?? is there such a planet ??
Dave Rat and his minions have been providing the ENTIRE sound reinforcement requirements for Coachella from its beginning back in the 1900's. I think it's safe to say that the number of engineers you question Dave on might be closer than you think.
People really like bad car metaphors. I really appreciate the content and I'm listening to a lot of the channel, but this was too car brained and the metaphors were not useful.
this video needed an introduction and it had too many analogies and not enough actual examples.