Why Did Bronze Era Lifters Have Flat Chests?
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- čas přidán 24. 02. 2023
- On our quest to figure out why Bronze Era lifters had small chests, we explore the history of the bench press and the aesthetic inspirations of early bodybuilders.
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How do you get arms that good an absolutely a bird chest?
It doesn't make any sense
Sweet bloody hell... modern males have breasts, not chests.
See where the lats join to the side of the back, on modern males the lat joins to the hip, like your curled over, makes for droopy pecs.
@@Bozemanjustin BECAUSE IT'S NATURAL. DUH...... NOT BOOBS LIKE NOWADAYS.
You know what else is definitely flat? The Earth. NASA is a lie , Watch Fox News for the truth. Big pecs and Big Pharma are conspiring against us. Wake up sheeple!
He was on those HandleBar mustache SARMS
I remember reading that military training does not emphasize bench presses because pulling tasks are more important for military applications. Bulking the body beyond everyday tasks just adds weight to the body and requires additional daily calories and could be potentially detrimental in extreme situations. I myself, have a "sitting in a chair all day" physique which is detrimental in all situations.
😂
Lol no, everyone benchpress in the military.
Lol
Yeah in the Marines pull ups are our gold standard. The fitness tests are very practical and don't give a shit about how much you can bench. My bulky endomorph body type was really quite awful for the Marines and at one point I had to just let my muscles atrophy and focus on cardio to get my scores up
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy That’s what my wife had to do when she was in the marines.
I run, sometimes (3x a week) lift weight and 2x a week kickbox but i totally relate.
Makes sense their inspiration didn't really have big chests. The warriors and gods, to whom the statues were built after, never really did anything that would grow their chest so much. The bench press, while being an incredibly useful exercise to grow your pecs, isn't a movement anyone would ever need to do in their day to day lives, even as a soldier. It was far more important to have a strong core, back and legs to support their heavy armors and equipment and strong arms to fight with.
Truth.
Be careful, some people get butthurt when you speak the Truth.
@@Fwibos how would this make anyone butthurt? the truth doesn't make big chests any less attractive
Strong chest would important as a warrior in order to push your enemies away, either with your arms or your weapon. And for work in old times when you needed to push objects in front of you.
@@TownOfCoom idiot
When people say my chest is small, I can say that i'm just chasing that bronze era' physique.
😄
Except you also have big belly, sp you are slightly off.
honestly looks weird when he photoshops in a bigger chest. Like it really does look like the men have tits.
@@Tate525True.I have a medium sized chest, a beer gut and relatively big arms and a strong back. It's massively unastethic but thankfully I'm not a catwalk model so who gives a shit.
😂
As someone who has injured their pectoral muscle from heavy benching and has halted my chest building progress, I see this as an absolute win.
Yeah having also experienced a torn pec, from heavy chest work. I agree moderate chest and pec growth is better esthetically
@@realityhurts8697g but this ppl mix natty and juiced. The best you can look as natty is the pictures of this bronce eta bodybuilders
@@Ahrone1586 Exactly, NONE of these fitness influencers are natty
@@jaysonb.6669 true my g, the fitness community is naive af. Like its 2024 and some ppl thinks David Laid is natty. The funny part they talk big about how bronce eta bodybuilders doesmt have a good chest, legs, ect you name it... but this is almost the natural limit without juice wdym.
You’re not a they.
The chest muscle is designed to stabilize the shoulder during throwing movements and carrying objects. Creating force with a lever is done with rotational power (obliques and shoulders). That's why the ancient statues had flat chests, big obliques, and biceps that were the same size as the forearm. They represented highly successful warriors.
These features are extremely common amongst MMA fighters, who are today's modern day gladiators.
Having an absolutely huge chest is "unnatural," there's no movement in day to day life or nature that would give a huge chest like we aim for today. It's a function of ridiculously heavy presses (which are not a natural movement in themselves, at what point would anyone be laying down with 400 lbs to push off their chest repeatedly multiple times a week) and drugs.
The last point is really important imo. The chances of you getting this huge chest without drugs are minuscule. Our pecs are not really made to be that large like our delts, back or legs are.
@@jsedge2473 well operations also help. silicones and stuff...
@Oliver Duran calisthenics bodyweight exercises like Pull-ups, pushups, dips, muscle ups,bro some form of strongman training like lifting logs, heavy rocks or flipping heavy tires and if you like physical combat activities try wrestling, BJJ, judo, MMA or even boxing.
They did not have flat chests. They had developed chests. The video cherry picking. Just look at Roman statues
The bronze age and classic era physiques are probably more functional/practical from a day to day life of physical work, it's the type of physique you see in strong labours, hunter gathers, gymnasts.. personally it looks very pleasing and natural to me
Agreed! Seen some farmers with those builds as well who’ve never seen an inside of the gym before. Very functional.
True. Modern aesthetic goals seem shifted beyond the realms of attainment without going full-send and living a life solely devoted to body aesthetic. And, in the race to out-do one another, the goalposts have been moved to a point of not being all that aesthetic (though some would obviously disagree).
These older images seem to reflect something more attainable in a life that has aesthetics as just one of many important goals.
Athletes had nothing to do with physical labor for 2000-3000 years.
Definitely chicken pecs are a modern and silky thing, but those body builder would have benifit functionally from some kind of horizontal pushing exercise. If you look at wrestlers from those eras, they have more pec development
Most athletes does have small pecs, big one could interrupt the shoulders move correctly
My grandfather was not a body builder, but he learned from them in the gym. I think he did it to overcome his asthma. Ultimately, he grew out of it, but must have had some last effects, as in 57, he had one of his lungs removed.
But he was doing 50 lb dumbell bicep curls into his 90s! He was definitely in his prime during the silver age, but born in the late 20s. Crazy to imagine him learning from the late bronze age guys. Literally would fill buckets with sand before he could go to the gym.
Old stories like that are always cool to hear
50Lb curls, good lord I'm only 12 kg the max
Yea I pretty much have that old man strength at age 32. I can rep 40s in each hand easily now. I work doing construction and throw 88 pound bags of cement around. Old man strength and gym strength makes you a beast.
Many Bronze Era lifters had small chests "relative to the size of their other muscles". They did not have small chests per se. For example, a 40-inch chest looks "small", when each of your biceps are 20 inches in circumference.
That’s a measurement of overall upper body girth though. Their actual pec muscles do look undeveloped compared to the rest of the body and compared to later eras. I’m one of the ones who thinks it’s an amazing look
Again you are comparing steroid users against natural bodybuilders. Peak natural bodybuilders have developed but small chest when the get to the body fat levels of these guys and Greek statues. Neither generations in the video would have ever seen what we call a chest today even if they did bench everyday because they didn’t have steroids. True natural bodybuilders most people would call newbys in the gym today. Stop looking at steroid heads.
@@henrycooper4213 would you say sean nalewanyj is a steriod head
No bronze era lifter had 20inch biceps bro 😂😂😂
@@alanjohnson6169 because they were short
Once I hit 30, I started prioritizing joint health over aesthetics. I noticed my chest size went down, but my triceps got larger. Not sure what to do with that information, but there it is.
30s.😂 wait till you're 50 like me and still working out. 30 for me was a walk in the park. Get back to me when you hit 50.
@@BorisOnX I assume that training for joint health means less rocky movement, slow execution and not going for weight or reps, but just clean technique. Something like HIT could be helpful, when taking 7 seconds for one rep. I also changed my training style from counting reps to not counting and just doing them as clean as possible and always repeating 1 in my head to avoid counting reps.
I've learned joint health is everything. Without it you're all but sunk. Recovering from a hurt elbow and knee. Incredibly limiting.
@@BorisOnX , IMO, Functional training is more reps with less weight, and rarely to failure. Aesthetics (adding dead muscle) is less reps with more weight, often to failure.
That's an interesting comment, as it seems in seems women tend to prefer lean muscular physiques (ie. Brad Pitt in Fight Club)... which of course is going to be lower weight and high reps. It seems when using the term 'aesthetics' its considered some sort of male ideal.
Those Bronze Era guys remind me of some men I've seen, especially older men, who did manual labor all their life. A common archetype is the thinner man with wiry muscles and a lot of definition, who re very strong for their size; the other is the burly man with little definition but very strong and large arms, backs, shoulders and legs.
Both of these arise out of years of repetitive, extenuating physical labor, and you can almost tell their job from their body shape.
When I remember Steve Irwin (crocodile hunter) his fingers, hands, and forearms were massive, especially when I saw him in person. He wrestled with predators and I'm positive that he had incredible grip strenght from his daily work.
That's true. There's a reason why even Popeye the Sailor looks the way he looks. That's also why the modern bodybuilders seem often a bit out of time and place in historical movies playing the roles of soldiers, blacksmiths and other laborers.
That's a good observation, when I was younger and in the Army I was very lean and wiry, I was very small at 140 but I had more definition. Later on when I was loading mail at the airport, I packed on a lot of mass at 170 pounds, four guys hand loading from 60k to 96k of mail in sacks by hand every night. But I 170 I had a gorilla belly. Those practical physiques look a lot different to bodies being built for aesthetic purposes.
Like a giant dick muscle with legs lol
@@lliaolsen728 Steve was one badass person, I can't believe what a joke PETA is nowadays when 20 years ago we had that badass dude leading the charge for animal rights and now it's become a laughing stock because these soft-bellies took it over. Teddy Roosevelt kickstarted the campaign not to mention, true genuine men who cared for animals should be respected.
As a non-bodybuilder (quite the opposite, actually, as I usually train for endurance and give little thought to hypertrophy) with an interest in ancient history, I saw this recommended and thought it was about physiques and strength training during the Bronze AGE (meaning 2000BCE~700BCE). Instead I was made aware of the eras of bodybuilding. Fascinating nonetheless.
Looking at bronze age statues from Mesopotamia, they have very defined arms and legs, but often their chest is not exposed. Sometimes though it looks a bit bulkier than the Greek statues shown. Yet the famous Gilgamesh statue doesn't have a very defined chest either.
The Bronze Age influenced the Bronze Era through the statues. I suspect that the Greek gods were carved to appear as superior forms of the swordsmen and hoplite that the Greeks would be familiar with. Bronze Age warriors had little need for chest development
Just say BC or AD. The BCE and CE are offensive
@@darkhorse1985 Offensive to who, sky-daddy believers?
@@darkhorse1985 go cry about it, you're probably scared of people with colored hair
This was a well done video. Loved all the stock photos.
I've been lifting since I was 15; I'm turning 52 this summer. I always shot for the Rambo physique as opposed to the Arnold monster shape. Over the decades, I can't count how many people tried to push 'roids on me as they saw how hard I trained. I've never been been about being the biggest guy as I've always just wanted to be fit, detailed and solid. No juice for me thank you.
Nice, same for me I don't want to be huge I just want to be fit. Although not as big as Rambo.
respect, that's what you call consistency!
"Rambo" used steriods guy
I think as long as you aren't competing in bodybuilding or use testosterone replacement to be fitter when you get older, roids just have far too much negative impacts on your physical and mental health
@@sireastside6210 You can still use that as inspiration as far as the physique and aesthetic go.
It should also be noted that their chests are only aesthetically "small" and "flat" in terms of pure size but they were still huge. Sandow had a 48 in. chest at his height/weight/size, so no natty really needs to worry about getting balloon pecs unless they have the insertions for it.
Lol there is no way Sandow had a 48in chest.
@@jaymcbakerk I looked it up they say he had a 48" chest, whether you believe it or not.
Measuring the chest involves measuring the back. Maybe that's why it seems higher than it looks.
@GymBum lucky, my chest is flat
@@thewizard7396lucky
Others have probably commented something similar but my 2 cents. I like the look of Greek statues and old bodybuilders more than that of men with huge chests.. If you do a lot of fighting or real life physical activities (like lifting and moving things around your house, running around a forest climbing trees, playing sports etc.) and your body does not grow the chest muscles very much in the process, it's a fair point to say that it simply means our bodies can do those tasks well enough without the need for big pecs. In many situations a person will prefer having less bodyweight (makes you faster in some scenarios, easier to pull yourself up, you won't carry unnecessary mass up a hill etc.). It is just my opinion obviously and I have nothing against people chasing the dream of having big chest. It is however definitely interesting how we went, in some 100 years of human history, from men not caring about growing their chest muscles to a state where big chest is seen in some circles as a mandatory sign of proper, serious, sucessful bodybuilding.
Regarding that last sentence the "some" is very relevant. When you talk to the average person, who doesn't care much about the sport of bodybuilding a lot of them will tell you they don't find modern bodybuilding physiques attractive. If you ask why, then for a surprising amount of people it's really just that they think tits don't look good on a man.
Obviously other peoples attraction shouldn't necessarily be important to your own physique goals, but it does give interesting insights into the average persons mind. Bodybuilding certainly is a bit of a bubble.
Nonsense true natural lifters will low body fats have smaller chests then Greek statues. Stop comparing drug losers bodies to natural ancient bodies.
This video has motivated me to work on my chest more.
This was really informative. Well done. Personally, I am more of a fan of the bronze era than the silver (and not a fan of today's BB'ers). I think in most recent times, non-competitive people, will concentrate on the chest and neglect other areas. Bronze era folks really tried to have a whole body concept. I like it better and tend to work the whole body in my exercise and fitness efforts.
I am not sure this is true. most beginners focus on biceps, and maybe squats. bench is almost always their weakest of the 3 lifts. bench press is a great exercise for the entire upper body. Most people never get close to benching twice their weight.
@@charleshayes2528 i think you are right, bicep curls are for posers.
@@uliwehner I think you are probably right, at least with regard to up-and-coming youngsters. It always used to be abs, biceps and chest that newbies concentrated on, but lately I often see teens doing awkward and pointless swinging bicep curls with more weight than I use, or doing squats and deadlifts ad infitum. The other day I caught this lad telling his mate (who had obviously complimented my physique) clearly saying in my direction: 'Nah, he's got no legs'. The thing is, I wear long shorts which can often give that impression, but even if it's true that my legs are somewhat lagging (though not my calves), although this kid had a bit of muscle on him he had a totally lagging chest, back, rear delts, traps etc. So yeah, newbies may not be skipping leg day but they are possibly focussing on them too much. That said, I will admit that it's a better way round than the traditional 'build-up the top half and skip leg day' thing, which can takes years to balance out. PS. Cocky little shitz who think they know it all should be banned from entering gyms!
So you like having a bird chest and look imbalanced that way? It doesn't make sense to train everything else but your chest. Only an idiot who thinks pushing has no place in regular life would say some stupid shit like lmao. I would rather have a complete physique than look like shit. I care about symmetry and balance. There's nothing wrong with having some mass and solid definition. 40s-80s were the best eras of BB period. Fuck the bronze age they all looked like wimps.
I think Bronze Age men *looked* thicker overall; the cannon arms, thick muscular legs and a trunk for a core. I think with a smaller chest, or at least one that doesn't protrude outwards at such an extent, makes the person's core look more even and more uniform. Much more aesthetically pleasing
Finding flatter chests more aesthetically pleasing might in fact be the reason why these Greek status had small chests.
While most today would at least disagree with that notion, it might have been the beauty standard back then.
Does anyone have more information on that?
@@LinkEXbecause that specific body shape (large arms, big core, tree trunks for legs) usually signified a strong warrior. You need strong arms and obliques for throwing (spears) and a well developed core, along with legs to carry heavy loads
@@LinkEX smaller chest are way more aesthetic than saggy chest . B@@b$ are aesthetically unattractive and weak
There is really one reason why "big chest" is really popular in physiques. CONAN.
Arnold Schwarzenegger has immortalized the big chest look. In (ancient) real life, a chest like that would be totally impractical for common survival stuff like running and moving arms in max range of motion. In fact Arnold was told to lose his chest because they were afraid he wouldn't be able to swing the sword properly.
@@rasmasyean The "big chest look" is ridiculous. Bronze era classic physiques are much better.
For me, it's more about functionality.
A big chest lowers range of movement, and is only really useful for performing chest-building exercises. Which is somewhat circular logic.
But, to each their own. It's just nice to see people who dedicate to the pursuit of personal improvement.
I agree with what you said but would conclude that building chest is no improvement, but a deterioration
@@MrTrollo2I wouldn’t call it a deterioration. It still lets you push with your arms harder (obviously) and helps with general pulmonary/calorie burning health. It’s not like bench pressing makes you less healthy lol.
Isolating your chest muscles and working on them instead of your core/legs/arms doesn’t make sense from a manual labor standpoint though, I agree.
@@MrTrollo2 Esthetic improvement is still an improvement.
@@user-pc5qj2ix2c we are talking sports and therefore performance. And there's no performance improvement
what do you mean chest strenght isnt useful? there are plenty of sports and jobs where you have to push hard away from you, like football or rugby
The small chest honestly looks extremely attainable and honestly more strong. They look naturally incredibly muscular.
Don't agree
I'd argue that it looks more solid rather than puffy this way, making it more visually similar to the rest of the body, with muscles that are big in shapes that look more rigid than a pair of round pecs, no problem with that though.@@user-ur9yq6ik1h
I beg to differ
it does have a unique look, chest usually becomes proportionally bigger as you workout its a dead giveaway someone does orthodox gym exercises.
however, manual labours, natty fighters, mechanics, lumberjacks usually have physique like this.
maybe some people like that kinda proprtion
Well their chests are definetly less strong. I GUARANTEE modern gym rats benches way more than they would. BUT that doesn't really matter, it's functionally not a very important muscle. Strong legs, core, back and arms are way more useful.
When I stopped lifting weights for aesthetics and started training for fighting, I found my body looked much better and more natural than it did when I was lifting weights. Now, I l don't care to have a big muscular chest just as long there's some definition I'm satisfied. I always thought the bench press warriors looked a bit wonky.
Hey dude what martial art are you training?
@@matthewhafner4955 Muay Thai and jiu-jitsu. My first martial was Tae Kwon Do. You? When I transistioned to grappling, I was the only student that did pull ups and deadlifts. That's when I realized how important back strength is.
@@matthewhafner4955 it's not the martial arts, its that he went from lifting to fighting training. Meaning he continued to work out throughout the transition so of course he would develop muscles over time. Other factors could be that he developed competitors so he had more of a reason to train harder and developed a goal/passion. As long as you have a goal that you are willing to pursue you will get the body you want with dedication and consistency.
@@aigoated i think he's just interested in the martial arts tho
fighter look better imo
I weirdly don’t want a big chest. I don’t want more ribs but just a nice slab of lean meat sharply shaped is perfect. If I didn’t gain anymore meat on my chest I’d honestly be fine. I want more meat on shoulders arms back then legs. I think the Greek statues honestly nailed it. I don’t want boobs, cause my girl has plenty of those.
More ribs?
Same
Concentrate on flyes and circular arm rotation.
Weirdd
Very cool video. Informative and with many historical pictures. Thats how its got to be :)
A third and final point of note is that bench-press is an exercise that requires support and that doesn't mimic most of what happens outside of training. We don't typically find ourselves in positions in every day life where we use just our arms in the bench-press motion - if we want to push something, we assume a stance that has us bracing off the ground because we don't carry a wall to stand against around with us. Functional strength generally doesn't require massive pecs - it requires a development more in keeping with what the Ancient Greeks idolized, with the modern pecs being largely a decorative fashion accessory.
Yup!
Not useless, but much less functional than a normal press.
I noticed this with gymnasts too, They have very well built and huge muscles but their chest's are usually just flat but well developed
Because good gymnasts have short arms, which make them less torso dominant
Doing planche, maltese, front levers won't get u a big chest u know?
It's because almost all well known influencers and celebs who work out take steroids. I bench 225lbs for 8 reps, 285lbs for orm. I also train in calisthenics, currently on advanced tuck planche.
My chest never looks like the influencers and bodybuilders. I now believe some calisthenics influencers have been taking gear too.
It's literally rampant. Research androgen receptors and steroids. These receptors respond to steroids well. That's why the delts, traps, and chest grow faster than other muscles when they take steroids.
because in gymnastics, anterior deltoid > chest
maybe female gymnasts
I've been studying these statues for artistic purposes and I can say I absolutely prefer and love this aesthetic over the modern look. It also reinforces the function of the body which is ironically, a better look to me. The natural balance and harmony of the major muscle groups is very pleasing to look at. No wonder they sculpted gods to look this way!
When I work out I try to incorporate exercises that enable this type of development.
How?
Modern bodybuilding looks like absolute s h i t to me. Look at the forearms to upper arms ratio on the bronze era builders. THAT is aesthetic and manly, smaller chest? THAT is manly. A "square" shaped body is more manly than the so called X or V shaped body.
Sry but a weaker chest does not reinforce any function 😂 what a statement tho that you truly believe in. And if you were born centuries ago people wouldn’t question anything you say. Too bad it’s 2023 bro.
@@ethancunningham3499 Check the physics of the Greeks.
I must say, the way that this statues would've been designed during classical Greece, they divided the body in 9 or 7 heights, and used different models for each part. For example one model for the chest and shoulders, another for torso, another por pelvic, another for legs, for feet, for face. So those statues even from those early times, where already an unrealistic choice of the best.
What I find interesting is that even though the floor press looks like half a movement, consider the fact that these men had to do a pullover to get it up into place to begin the exercise. To have someone hand it to you would not have shown good form. Not only did these men have great physiques, they were mind-boggingly strong! Good post. Excellent research.
That's what a natural physique looks like
I never thought about it until this excellent video but aesthetically I prefer a smaller chest. I'm going to rethink my training. Thank you!
Me too. I use steel clubs to mimic gladiators' lances.. 🙂
Yes!
I like women with big chest
@@trollse8714 Who doesn't?
@@trollse8714 amen brother
Wow super interesting. Completely flat bronze era chests look a little weird to me but modern chests are often too big. I think something in the middle would be ideal
yea the middle is probably the answer
You either have a massive chest or you don't. There isn't "middle".
Man titties are gross
@@kcapt96 ??? it doesnt just randomly pop from small to massive, its a gradual change
So just modern era and natural then, key word being natural, too many people nowadays are on steroids, you won't develop anything out of proportion if you hit every muscle group over years. It's annoying when newbies say I don't want to lift heavy and get too 'big' (because of all the fake nattys) , newsflash, they won't. They need to put a lot of effort in naturally and they'll never be freaky big, but can still achieve a great physique.
Absolutely fascinating. I love history and I love weight lifting.
Great information. Did not know any of this 😊
Also the bench press was not valued until recently. It has poor crossover to most sports and doesn’t really denote overall strength like a clean and press (which very much was valued). Training for physique only also is pretty new. Sandow himself could perform strongman feats as well as acrobatics and gymnastics. Even going into the 1950s, Tommy Kono may have competed in bodybuilding, but was also the greatest American weightlifter. Having muscle breasts is not necessarily great for most forms if athleticism. They are kind of like a step up from the overtrained biceps, being the easiest route to achieving gains compared to the long, brutal march of the clean and press.
It depends what do you aim for. If you want to increase pushing strength and overload easily. Bench press gave me strength for my first 20 push ups. Boxers do bench press, not for hypertrophy but for strength and endurance, rugby/american football players bench, strongmen do bench press, my point is, this movement when used for gaining strength within 3-8 rep ranges, is good. I believe bench press, push ups, parallel dips and military press are big 4 of building pushing strength, with bench press being number 1.
@@Zenzuhtferstekt I wasn't trying to say it is bad, just overrated as some kind of benchmark. The sports you listed are excellent examples where one might program it in. But, honestly, most other sports do not benefit. Nor is it really a true measure of your strength. Picking the barbell up from the floor and pressing it into the overhead fixation is, in my opinion, the default measure of absolute strength. In fact, historically, the rise of the bench press occurred when weightlifters kicked the pressers out of the sport, and the pressers migrated to the sport of powerlifting. If you look at the clean and presses that were being passed off in the end there, they basically became standing bench presses. They go to powerlifting and slide a bench beneath there to be able to press even more weight, and remove the pull and squat components of the strength measure. Not everyone agrees here. Tommy Kono was also a bodybuilder and developed his chest to win bodybuilding competitions when he wasn't busy as the greatest American weightlifter. But the top Chinese weightlifters today do dips only. Kolkov, though, bench pressed.
@@noosphericaltarzan i think you missed my point. One thing is if you said overrated, which sure i agree, there's other measurements of strength. But did you notice that i said **pushing** strength? Think of push ups, bench press is same movement pattern but easier to progress and build raw strength. Pulling pushing and leg strength are different types of strength that determine overall strength. I know Olympic lifting is useful, but if you are going to call benching "not real strength" it makes zero sense, as it strengthens your upper body musculature along with other movements i mentioned.
I think I understood. The problem is that, from my perspective, separating these patterns like that is not very useful unless you need specificity in horizontal pressing, etc. For just pressing strength, the overhead press, again, is a better measure, but it takes a very long time to ascend. It’s not fast like bench press. Most people don’t have the patience, but the pay off is higher longterm (and injuries lower).
@@noosphericaltarzan i am certainly not the only one who separates movement patterns like this. Horizontal pressing is basically pushing, same movement you use to push someone away, throw a punch, throw something. What strengthens those muscles? Bench press. Sure you can get into nuances of "technique of throwing and punching" but the truth is the bench press is very good for gaining strength. If you think bench press is not true measure of strength, why are push ups, which use exact same muscles as bench press, universally accepted as measurement of upper body strength and endurance? I also already mentioned this but bench press, when i started very skinny 0 push ups, bench helped me get to 20 push ups. But no, lets just disregard a whole movement because it is done when laying down. I just cant understand how can you for example see someone bench 315 for reps and tell him "its not measurement of strength"
This gives a valid alternative to strive for rather than the bulk of modern day examples. Much appreciated.
dude
🪰🤣
Very well researched!!
Big pecs are functionally pointless for anything but benching. They're for stabilising the shoulder.
Pushing people off of you 😂
They're good if you're trapped in a dungeon between two walls that are trying to crush you, although in this case pushing with your legs might be preferable
@@strongerthanyoualldayAnd for punching.
Professional boxers rarely have big chests either.
They rarely have big anything. But it is indeed remarkable that this is so much the case that even when it comes to the major arm extension muscle, they are so much ridiculously less developed than the wrestlers and grapplers who would seem to have so much less use for it!
@@salvadorromero9712Big chests make you slower and fatigue you faster... Terrible combo for boxing.
@@userunknown1578 One of the things I've always been curious about, is what boxers would look like if their goal was just to see who they could beat at whatever size. Because boxers' notable scrawniness doesn't quite reflect the lack of importance (or possible counterproductivity) of muscle; it only definitively reflects that muscle isn't *worth the extra weight* to them. Do the more muscular physiques of heavyweight boxers reflect where boxers of all weight classes would be if they didn't have to worry about making weight? Or is boxing a different enough sport for the little man that muscle would seriously impede the capacities that they utilize for success, compared perhaps to the greater importance of strength for the behemoths? So that flyweights would perhaps get a little more jacked than they are now but not much? I guess this is a question we may never have answered, beyond the speculations of boxing broscience.
@@salvadorromero9712 There is very little pushing in punching. Half of the success is to have very powerful pulling capability (this helps to pull your elbow back at fast pace, therefore exercising a punch faster, which is crucial in boxing). This is why boxers have huge and strong back and the staple of their strength training is pullup. And the other half is powerful leg to core to arm movement, like in throwing and kicking (ok, less arm involvement there). Chest usage is very limited. And this basically transfers to most sport movements, which is also the reason why Greek sculptures had not very developed pecs - they were training for combat. Throwing, punching, sword fighting etc. And probably why some people dislike big pecs - they are limiting factor in the athletic prowess and reflecting athletic prowess is what you actually find aesthetic in male body.
Yea thats why mike tyson was able to beat everybody, cause he had while the others didnt
I remember reading once somewhere that Reg Park didn’t work chest much as he felt that the pecs would overcome the impressiveness of the delts. It’s a bigger muscle group. Also I remember reading somewhere once that Arthur Saxon talked about how people erroneously look at a man’s biceps and think that is where strength is, but that it really lies in the SHOULDERS and that that is what young lifters should pay attention to.
I realy don't get all that obsession for big biceps. Bigger forearms and hands to me show much more strength and masculinity.
@@badbot223 oh yes, there is a reason women flock to pottery/ cooking channels that primarily showcase the guy's hands and forearms at work xD
yeah, the shoulder form the v shape. theyre very important
Bicep is the most useless muscle, in everyday life you lift with your back not your bicep. Also Triceps are a much bigger part of the arm then average people think.
@@ddawg3230lmao women love chests and backs as per every study states. They do not care about forearms and mostly find vines unattractive.
Here from Coach Greg. Love your content!
As a guy who's been lifting for over 15 years and always had a flat chest but strong arms/shoulders/back/legs, this is music to my ears
I want to just shape my chest and give it solid look not shaggy look or big so what can I do ? I am 172 cm and 62 kg bw. before gym about 7 months ago i was 55 kg.. I have chest phobia like man boobs so please help ??
I prefer silver era dude physique, but man gimme them bronze era ladies amirite
i prefer titanium era
Oh yeah
Love the look the ladies had in the 1920's
I love the wholesomeness of this channel, fitness needs more of this. Keep it up!
Very educational, i did not know that about the flat chest bodybilders
If you dont have the equipment for a bench press or dont like the exercise you can hit the pecs by doing incline pushups in between 2 metal bars or some chairs or whatever so you can drop a bit further down and get that stretch.
The video I've been waiting for to explain my lack of enjoyment for chest day. Excellent info, thank you.
The bronze era physique looks pretty good to me. Personally, I wouldn't skip chest myself - but I do think that it makes for a fairly compelling alternate approach to physique aesthetic.
When I 1st started training I just did legs back and shoulders. A year later and I have introduced high rep chest and arms - I am not looking for any 1 rep max bench presses any time soon.
It's not like they're altering their anatomy. They're neglecting a muscle group. I will never understand the idea of training for looks. You WILL get good looks if you train all your muscles and get really strong. I don't train with any physique in mind because I know all I can ever accomplish is my own physique at various levels of development. So long as I've got my hypertrophy, strength, and occasional peaking, phases, I'm continuing to build up my muscularity at a fast rate. So far, (lbs), I'm at 309/236/410, and my bodyweight at the start of this recently started cut was 210 lbs. I thought I was like 22-23% bodyfat, but apparently I was 20.5%, and I didn't cheat at all. At any rate, lots of muscle, lots of strength, big pecs, big delts, big everything. Somewhat lagging triceps that I will work more on in the next bulk. I have no real weakness, though. No muscle group that's at a low novice level while others are more intermediate. Gotta train all aspects of your body to get the best results, not invent new ways of avoiding training.
Various reasons: Back then they were more strongmen/ athletic /slender looking, compared to today's; "thick muscles only", stance.
A chest can be strong without being excessively thick and developed. Look at today's strongmen, they don't have bodybuilder sized chests, but are much stronger.Etc.
In short:
The Bench Press wasn't invented😂
Great analysis! Honestly I've never noticed the chest differences, but now that I see it, it can't be unseen.
Thank you for making a video that gets straight to the point. It’s a very welcome change for me. It encourages me to check out the rest of your channel.
They look so beautiful and natural 🙏🏻💚🦄
Rowing was a big thing in ancient Greece, rowing a small or big boat like "trireme" (dozens of people rowing at the same time), this develops the back muscles directly, very little in the history of human kind had a direct big impact on pectoralis muscles until deliberately bench press was used.
Olympic rowers' chests aren't really anything to write home about. Backs, legs and traps...Much more defined and powerful.
@@azmodanpc That's why rowing machines are one of the best overall workouts you can get. Does just about everything except your chest, but who cares about the chest
There is something far more impressive when a lifter takes a heavy weight from the floor and presses it over head to arms length, than doing a bench press. I have lifted many years and of course spent most of that time focusing on the bench press. But in my early forties I started focusing on overhead lifting and I soon realized how superior the overall effect of a overhead press is to a bench press. I am now soon to be 70 and I still do overhead pressing, and the effect is still very positive. I only use dumbbells and kettlebells, for I feel one arm movements do better for the joints. And I still use heavy weights in my pressing. My lightest pair of dumbbells are 50 lbs each and my lightest kettlebell is 60 lbs. The only exercise I do for my chest are 4 sets of high rep push-ups between chairs.
Sir you are a monster for your age
Push ups between chairs (sometimes called Atlas push ups) are a great exercise and one of the best for chest development.
The comments on this video have gone off on a wild tangent about military PT. If I had to choose ONE activity to build and maintain overall physical fitness, it would be backpacking. Or as the military calls it, "rucking or humping a ruck." I come from a backpacking background and also a swimming background, a lot of lifeguarding. A lot of running when I was young. A lot of heavy calisthenics. If I could choose one activity, it would be carrying a pack no more than fifty pounds (absolute maximum preferably lighter). And walk long distances wearing boots in rugged terrain. Builds you up like no gym workout will. Works ALL to your leg and hip muscles, builds cardio, indirectly works core strength and strenthens your low back.
Become a mailman
I opened this video as a random youtube suggestions, but wooooow, it has just blown my mind! Such an interesting observation and such good explanations in the comment section!
The bench press really wasn't a thing back then. For them the preferred measure of upper body strength was the overhead press. The bench press became popular with the advent of powerlifting. When Olympic Weightlifting dropped the overhead press, the overhead press really fell out of favor with most strength training programs. Fortunately, some are bringing it back.
True! I always said the overhead press is the measure of upper body strength. You never saw weight lifters doing benches
Problem with Ooverhead pressing is ease in which you can get injured.
I have some friends who needed surgery because of that.
Some PTs I talked to recommended to use about 70% oh pressing to be light work.
@@fingerstyleguitas9046 The same is true of every exercise. The bench press is the only barbell exercise that can kill you if you do it wrong, but you don't hear anyone saying "don't bench press, you could die!" The solution is to use proper technique, not less weight.
You can build a decent chest without doing bench press though.
@@expressrobkill Nobody said you couldn't.
Your channel is a gem, thanks for your content!
I honestly think this is more aesthetic. My chest gets huge if I train even minimally now I just stick to push ups.
Smartest approach..
Cuz training chest has no benefits except for looks while every other muscle has major benefit and connect with eachother.
I had open heart surgery when i was 14 so this works for me beautifully
Great vid! While I haven't thought too much about it, what you say makes a lot of sense. I prefer a thicker chest, but definitely appreciate the bronze era aesthetics especially their biceps, shoulders, abs and quads.
Very informative and also makes a lot of sense. I've always had a disproportionately large chest that sticks out farther than my abdomen even without doing any muscle training at all. I was always very conscientious about it since growing up all the guys had flat chests. In this day and age however I've come to appreciate it since many tell me they wish they had a chest like mine.
Gynecomastia is incredibly common nowadays tbh, a lot of teen boys are just given surgery to deal with it
pecs for the boys
chest or titties?
Same
Kind of crazy that ancient statues of literal gods are more realistically proportioned than modern Olympia champions...
I remember using a banana box as a bench when training with Weider weights aged 10 in the 1950s and now aged 81, I use a Multi Gym in my bedroom.
What kind of multi gym
I'd imagine this A) has to do with function. Chest muscles are generally stabilizer muscles and aren't isolated in practical exercises and combat motions. Unless they wanted to find an "odd" exercise to isolate it, there was no reason to have a big chest. 2) Big chests have historically been a feminine trait physically. If you showed pictures of modern era bodybuilders with these engorged looking chests to these older bodybuilders or even just warriors of old times, they'd probably laugh at them and say they look like women's breasts.
Exactly! I've always thought they looked like man boobs. 😂
Absolutely bro
Man-boobs. 😸
I was kinda thinking that but I don’t necessarily dislike the big chest, just not for me
true. But for example in NFL draft combine, it is absolutely necessary to do well in the bench press, and you know, guys in the NFL are pretty damn athletic and fit.
I prefer the bronze era physique because I found that having a large chest impedes punching speed and power.
Meanwhile punching power and throwing speed improve with horizontal pressing
The chest is the most aesthetically pleasing muscle group
@@grod805 I think it's subjective, ,I personally don't like a big chest. It doesn't look strong and fonctional in my eyes
@@grod805 aesthetics as in physically attractive? The chest is meh. Most people I see in the gym with huge chest are guys in their 50s with dad bods doing nothing but curls and bench press 24/7. I just don’t associate a huge chest with youth, vitality, fitness or athleticism
How so? 🤔 If you have proper form, that power should be coming from your trunk and legs. I'm assuming you're talking boxing?
I didn't know about the history of bodybuilding going that far because I never thought about it and you just earned yourself a new subscriber
Guess my ex wife was also a bronze era lifter
Thankfully my wife can almost rival current era bodybuilders, however she still can't beat them.
Very good, thank you. Eugene deserves credit no doubt. No steroids and all muscle. Just intelligent hard work. Another name we should remember, especially concerning the topic of this video is Lalanne, Jack Lalanne. Unbeknownst to most of todays bodybuilders, many of whom don't even know his name, Jack Lalanne improved upon the idea of the bench press and had a welder he knew create one or two of the first bench press tables. Jack was training Hollywood stars who wanted to have greater athletic appearance for the roles they played in the movies.
In 1936 he opened one of the countries first gyms in Oakland, California.
And found to his dismay that many of his Hollywood clients too lazy to work the Dip station as it was too hard! So Jack introduced them to the Bench Press where they could incrementally increase the weight of the lift. As I understand it it was Jack Lalanne who popularized, if mot invented the modern bench press. Before this time body builders used anything resembling a dip station. I'm not so sure we are the better off for it.
Thanks for sharing!
OMG !!! Your videos are outstanding and incredible !!! Thank you do much for your credible videos !!!
You are incredibly talented !!!
You have given us a WONDERFUL HISTORY OF BODYBUILDING !!!
THANK you so much for all your intellect in putting building forward !!!
All the Best !!!
That’s very kind of you to say :) thank you so much for your support! Best wishes
Now that's dedication
Fascinating video.
My late father a Marine etc was what was called in the 50 s and 60 s a “ iron man “ he knew all the guys in York PA , like John the editor of strength and heath magazine, my father could bend iron bars , squat 600 back then , but he increased his actual rib cage size by doing pull overs with a dumbbell on a bench, he went from like a 43 inch size to a 50 , his pec muscle increased a bit but he expanded his rib cage much more he went to a doc for something, the doc said sir ur heart is enlarged, he said well I hope so there’s more room for it ! Lol he lived many years after
Sounds like a good workout, good full range of motion. I'm adding this to my workouts 👍 semper fi
@@sirseven3 unfortunately u can’t say that to me not a Marine , only at “ heart “ like my father saying to me “ put ur shoulders back etc “ lol
@@stephensclavos4485 well the fact that he instilled some things in you sets you apart from the rest. It's not to you directly but respect for your father. Even children of marines are respected because you're the next generation.
I really think bronze era guys look less like bodybuilders and more like very good athletes, especially when most of these guys are under 200 lbs. Besides certain athletes, you don't see a lot of huge, bulging chests in athletics
Especially when you look at the actual athletes of the era IE look at photos of the 1st Tour De France. Just average guys off the street literally riding in suits and ties.
@@sergeantbigmac nice icon
I got most of my chest size doing push ups. I think genetics played a role. When I was in the service I did 200 pushups everyday (except on weekends) I did bench some after getting out but I got better chest development from bench chest flys and dips.
I want to just shape my chest and give it solid look not shaggy look or big so what can I do ? I am 172 cm and 62 kg bw. before gym about 7 months ago i was 55 kg.. I have chest phobia like man boobs so please help ??
great trip through history
They're the all-natural boys, and the true chads I respect.
As a person not taking steroids I decided to focus much more on my shoulders and lats, then on chest, to look like I lift
Even arms play a bigger role than chest tbh
You don’t have to choose lol you can do everything
@@jj7546 Yeah, of course I am training my whole body. But I think that prioritize some muscle may be a good thing, especially if you are not able to recover from high volume training done on the every muscle
@@slee2695 Yes,
Also for the chest I really focus on the upper part, which for naturals is almost always underdeveloped. In my opinion, a chest with developed lower part, but lacking upper, looks really bad, like a breast.
@@kanalprobny1927 Larry wheels has got milk.
I absolutely love small chest aesthethics
Nice overview.
This is exactly why Steeve Reeves did not blast those pecs. He could have if he wanted to, with those superior genetics. In early Hollywood, big "pecs" were not seen to be aesthetic on a man.
Actually, he was on to something with the push up. That's an important chest exercise. So the fact that he introduced that was pretty important. It's not going to give you a bulging chest, but it does at least play some role in mimimal chest development.
I don’t know if he introduced the push up. 3:36 The video just stated that he incorporated it in his workouts at a minimal amount.
you dont know what youre talking about. push ups ARE an amazing chest builder even for the advanced athletes. the main problem is that alot of people dont progressively overload it, like doing a harder variation/adding weights. doing 40 push ups wont grow your chest but doing 10 weighted push ups will
@@meyr1992I agree.
@@meyr1992 I can't do 10 pushups anyway 😬
@@meyr1992 If that were the case you would see bodybuilders using pushups to build their chest, they don't. You have far better chest building exercices, any chest pressing exercice is better at building the chest than pushups. Only reason you would want to use pushups for building your chest is if you're a beginner or you're supersetting pushups after a chest pressing exercice to get that extra burn on the chest. Can you build a good chest using pushups? Absolutely. Is it a good chest building exercice compared to the other alternatives that are available at any gym? No it is not.
5:54 Brilliant wisdom. Enjoy great workouts. And just like Franky Goes To Hollywood said "Love your body, even when it's old". Even though many nowadays act like they're gonna live forever, we all get old, it's as Universally certain as change 😛😜
I went from being a gym rat to a track sprinter. I have “good” chest genetics and even though I can barely bench above my BW, my chest exploded in width and size. While sprinting, this wide chest and lats becomes problematic to my arm swing.
So, I expect that as far as pure athleticism goes, a large chest doesn’t help much.
Yeah, you find a lot of the great boxers have small chests
It has greater oxygen capacity, but most weight lifters have poor endurance because of their bulk.
Great video! Very explanatory 👏👏
Thank you for your support brother 💪
Form follows function. Under what circumstances, in daily life in the real world, might you find yourself routinely doing a supine bench-pressing action? I can't think of any. But I can think of LOTS of everyday, routine uses for arms, shoulders, legs, back and abs. Perhaps the Greco-Roman aesthetic developed because it was indicative of a high level of performance capacity.
I don't mind SOME chest development, but I think the chest has become over-developed from too much emphasis on a relatively non-functional movement. When I train a movement, I always ask myself, "Now when would I ever DO that outside the gym? What's the real-world application?"
You often squeeze your arms together. If you pull something sideways you use a pec to help. It still wouldn't be the primary muscle being used though. When you throw a hook punch it definitely uses the chest. Or just throwing something depending on how you throw it.
@@SantanaBanana47 Roger that. I came up with a hook punch and a hug. But the power in the hook comes from the hips, not from the pecs. Benching all day long won't help you with that. :) As for hugs, if I have to use a lot of strength, maybe I shouldn't be doing that hugging! :)
@@spartacusjonesmusic bear hugs are super functional. Ever carried a big unwieldy thing for a distance? You bet your pecs will be fried. I used to walk a heavy bulky sandbag for 4-500 meters as a finisher lol.
@@gusjeazer Actually, yes I have. While my pecs worked some I'm sure, the bulk of the effort was core, lower back and legs, Also the bench press is NOT a good developer of hugging power --adduction of the upper arm toward or across the midline of the body. Far as I can tell, bench pressing develops huge chests that are good for bench pressing. :)
@@spartacusjonesmusicou're kinda slow, are ya? Chest adduction is well worked by bench pressing, and has worked well since it was introduced by Georg Hackenshmidt. Wrestlers soon figured out how useful it was for them, since pushing requires a great deal of chest activation. Hook punches also definitely require some chest stabilization.
They look much healthier than modern body builders imo. They look like soldiers.
This is a good observation. I'd also add that lat development didn't seem to be highly emphasized yet. It was more about strong shoulder, arms, core, and legs than v-taper. Seems to match what you'd expect from functional strength requirements.
yes thats why their core was massive. tbh i prefer the silver physique era type.
They does have developed lats but the big obliques cancels the v-taper out, so it appears like minimal lat development.
I'm personally not into the 'bubbly' look, so to me a healthy chest has a size limit.
I do a lot of weighted pullups though which has given my chest a good size to it while still maintaining that tight look.
Body building is very much a preference and I love that there are so many variations.
I find it so fascinating that you can literally sculpt your body to a specific look with hard work and dedication.
Hi Jeff could I ask the dumbest question. Could you teach me how weighted pull-ups helps with my chest. I'm just an amateur but train hard and have much to learn
@@brothatwasepic your definitely not dumb…
How do pull ups work your chest lmao
@@Rand0m_Us3r_ maybe he meant Chin ups cus I thought the same thing.
Do you me Chin ups?
3:00 - That's extremely interesting for people limited to working out at home, i think...
I actually prefer the old look without so developed chests, just looks more natural and aligned. Great and informative video.
Hey man, can we get more training videos or walkthroughs of yours?
Keep up the good work.
Thank you brother, I will be doing more of that on my second channel: www.youtube.com/@mynattylife
If the Victorian-era revival in interest in developing musculature was a conscious revival of the (never completely dead) male physical ideals of the Greeks, Sandow (not the man who started the revival, but the man who made it an independent sport) was the man who most literally looked like a Greek statue. Which is to say, in part, he had a small chest and no V-taper. Since he basically *was* bodybuilding for the initial bit and completely controlled its aesthetic standards, it's interesting to wonder if the Bronze Era might have been a bit different if he'd been one of the people blessed with chests that are big even without lifting and grow huge even with overhead presses, or blessed with a great V-taper like Steve Reeves. Would it have attracted different competitors, celebrated different champions, even spurred different training protocols?
Nowadays we still talk of "looking like a Greek god" and such but it is a rather vapid, generic compliment. It is actually rather remarkable that the Steve Reeves "superhero" aesthetic ideal took hold after liberation from Sandow's influence and has stuck, unchanged and unchallenged, for nearly 80 years now. Personally I prefer it that way. The thick middle might look (and be) more athletic. But the V-taper is a *huge* masculine dimorphism. And I mean not just that a waifish middle makes the shoulders *look* broader, but that it's a dimorphism in and of itself. The whole ratio is a dimorphism. (Of course, my tastes could be biased by the fact that chest and V-taper are most notably my own biggest strengths, whereas my biceps are long but rather scrawny!) It's interesting to note that many (not all) anime and manga seem to take the "superhero" physique ideal to the extreme in the opposite direction at least where chest vs arms are concerned. Characters from the twinkiest twinks to the ridiculously grotesque muscle behemoths who make Hulk look like a twink, often have chest development that hugely outclasses their comparatively scrawny arms.
Yeah again the Greeks showed well developed chests...so I'm not what's your point
Sandow also used to powder his body in white chalk to achieve that greek marble hardness look. He also was photographed in black and white when photography was in its infancy. He also and I cannot be sure of this appeared to be a very short man. Many short men thrive in bodybuilding because ten or twenty pounds of muscle on a shrimp looks different on those guys than the same amount of muscle looks on taller men. Truthfully I think glory in male musculature is as much about genetics and a certain presentation in Sandows time as it is today. Not to say the man was not strong.
I like my twinks flat chested, personally
Did you have to go homophobic?
@@stevenweint7893 Where's the homophobiс part? It seems like he's just sick of every twink in media having gross muscles. That's totally understandable
The dudes were actually natural
Chest may be lacking but those forearms look massive 👀 💪
Great analysis...makes good sense..and it is a matter of preference.those ancient guys that inspired the statues had functional physiques that were honed for war..close quarter combat. Great content 👍👍😊 interesting stuff
Thank you :)
Interesting subject matter. You covered a LOT, and I praise you for educating us on the history of body building, what was missed however, is WHY Greeks were built the way they were built. Their muscles were a reflection of their lifestyle: Their muscles were big in the areas that they were big, because those muscles were used for an important purpose, and not “built” in a synthetic environment (aka gym). You can see how much effort was put into designing such an un-natural movement like the Bench Press.
The Greeks had gyms.
@@vicente09a-g92he says bench press, not push up.
@@vicente09a-g92 I don’t see anybody cranking their back to do a pushup
I’m starting to think 99% of people on CZcams have low iq. Those Greek and Roman statues have huge developed chest for a natural bodybuilder at that level of bodyfat. People here are so dumb it’s unbelievable, these people did not have steroids and these statues are the perfect proportions that a 0.0001% natural bodybuilder would hope to ever achieve. These men were wrestlers as the chest is a very important muscle in wrestling and why they were very well developed. Just because they didn’t do bench press does not mean they didnt train chest. The guy that made this video also seems to be completely clueless and haven’t thought for more than 10 minutes about this video.
@@azula3906 The Greek gymnasias don't have much in common with modern-day gyms. They mostly relied on bodyweight, and when they did use the added weights, they weren't doing isolated exercises or, from their perspective, weird/unnatural movements like we do today. They would lift stones or logs, like how you lift them when you wanna carry them. They sometimes used things like halteres, but only to add weight to natural movements like jumping, running etc. Training with weapons, wrestling, playing ball etc. were also a huge part of their exercise habits.
Damn, this was kinda motivating. I kinda do look like a greek god after all 🤣
They didn't like having boobs like men nowadays
The Bronze Era lifters truly stood out for their functionality and the front of their arms. Their arms (not as much tricep) and forearms are some of the best to ever exist in body building.
the reason their forearms and calves looked so huge is that the examples shown here are mostly Lee Priests height. They're nearly dwarves... Lee himself having a type of dwarfism but being a tall dwarf
@@agnidas5816 hes 5'4 thats not a dwarf haha. Dwarves are like 4ft
When your biceps is small, your forearm looks bigger. Also, they were not very tall. Looks can be deceiving.
silver phyisque are better