Peter Beinart was phänomenal. As for Bret, he seems to not have updated or nuanced info. His references makes it feel like this talk was done 20 years ago. I was surprised to see that it was just last year. Is he selectively dismissing Hamas's new charter, Ben Gurion's biography (A State at Any Cost: The Life of David Ben-Gurion) and how it is very clear that he was not looking to co-exist with arabs in an equal manner. For gods sake he did not even bother learn arabic while he learnt 4 or 5 other languages. Is bret not aware of revised history books like that by Benny Morris (a zionist himself) on the ethnic cleansing and provocation of jews... anyway, thanks for sharing the talk.
The problem with Beinart's analysis is he views the predicament of the Palestinian people as strictly due to Israel. He assumes that Palestinians bear no responsibility for their current situation. It's also a matter of hubris and naieve to claim that any government of Israel would agree to national suicide as he suggests. He also completely avoids trying to contemplate what all of the Hamas terrorists and Palestinian Jihad terrorists would do once they are allowed in the "binational state." It would be like the US giving citizenship to Al Qaeda. If Palestinians completely disarmed and renounced terrorism, they would have their own state; if Israel unilaterally disarmed, there would be another Holocaust. October 7 proved what Hamas is all about.
Yes, it is. Thanks to Hamas who the people themselves elected. And the billions of dollars that they used to build a military jihadist state rather than improve their life. Do your research and quit spouting stupidity.
What a good and inspirational man Peter Beinart is - I agree with every word he said. Thank goodness he still has a platform - unlike so very many other equally good and inspirational Jewish people/academics/activists in the US and throughout the world! Bret Stephens' views, however, are deeply disturbing! (I await the predictable 'algorythm-driven' robots/trolls' postings/'dislikes') !
OF COURSR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you dont need to spend years debating this... its VERY LOGICAL!!!! even a 10 year old can tell you.. ANTI ZIONISM isn't ANTI JEWISH... remember being JEWISH.. doesnt mean ISRAELI anymore.. you dont have to be JEWISH to be ISRAELI now...
Sick of hearing about anti-semitism. The wealthiest, most powerful, entititled, privileged and safest people in the Western world always going on about how victimized they are.
This guy needs to get the names straight before he introduces people and journals. It's "Jewish Currents", a progressive socialist Jewish paper, that I write for; and Jodi Rudoren, editor of the Forward.
Actually, I take that back. it takes her like five minutes to ask a question that I even forgot what the question is, Please, Jodi, ask a question quickly and succinctly. and ask about BDS, is it anti-Semitic? also explain to the audience what the Sunrise Movement is? Most people don't know what it is. Now, she jumps to Ben and Jerry. She's all over the place. Very confusing. .
@@pjnadler4648 so being against a national organization makes you a anti semite right wonder why you edited the comment the revelation given to moses ect is a bit different in running a state and core values wouldn't you say
Both of them are excellent and articulate in their views but she jumps all over the place and sadly, doesnt follow through because she does not have a full command of the subject. I wish I had been the moderator.
I'm sorry to say this, but if you truly believe them both to've been "excellent and articulate in their views" when one (Stephens) basically acted as a stenographer for the IDF and all of Israel's past elected leaders... well, I'd say you'd have been no better as a moderator than the one you've critiqued. Beinart's position is infinitely more sincere, honest, and accurate to the current situation on the ground than the biased, anti-Palestinian bullshit Stephens and plenty of other people like him tend to peddle.
“If you look at the present map of Palestine, you would realise that it is near impossible to have two states because the Israeli settlements have been built to spilt up the Palestinians. Following the 1967 war, Israel began establishing numerous settlements, or illegal housing developments for Jewish Israelis only on stolen Palestinian land (colonies). There are now thousands of these settlements throughout the West Bank and Gaza, as well as numerous settlements in the Syrian Golan Heights. Settlements are one of the major blockages to a peaceful and just resolution to Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians and other Arabs. The "roadmap" to peace calls on Israel to dismantle these settlements and to return the land to the rightful owners. Unfortunately, Israel continues to expand existing settlements and to build new ones.” Gideon Levy
Your comment is the very reason for this debate and the reason that antisemitism should not be hyphenated. By that I mean when people say "how can Arabs who are Semites be "anti-Semitic"? The answer is that antisemitism is Jew hatred. And critics are not accused of antisemitism. Just antisemitism in accordance with the IHRA definition which you should acquaint yourself with.
@@pjnadler4648 So you are saying that anti-Zionism has nothing at all to do with Jew hatred? I would agree. So the people who accuse anti- Zionists of antisemitism should just button it. Agreed!
@@johnhall2612 Hitler and Eichmann were Zionist. In fact a coin was made to celebrate Nazism and Zionism collaboration through the Hazara or Transfer agreement.
Both are eloquent speakers. Beinart speaks too fast and stammers frequently. I am not convinced that Beinart really understands what it is like living in Israel, even though he claims he does. Beinart has his arm-chair liberal agenda and then sees Israel as he thinks it should be. That is not realistic. Beinart ignores many facts of living in Israel and the within the region because it does not suit his agenda. Israel is not an apartheid state. There are Arab Knesset members, one Arab party is part of the government. There are Arab doctors and nurses in entire medical system - hospitals, HMOs, pharmacies. There are Arab students in all the universities. Bedouin and Druze serve in the IDF and slowly there is a trend or movement of Arabs serving in the IDF. It is not all perfect but slowly there is an awakening of awareness and tolerance on both sides. Sadly, where ever Palestinians as a group have moved - their communities crumble and are ruled by a small group of narcissistic leaders who horde the wealth.- West Bank, Jordan, Lebanon and Gaza . The Palestinians are suffering because of their own leaders. The Arabs that live in Israel know that their lives are better off in Israel - economically, medically, education, their women and daughters have options. It is not yet perfect, but there is an enormous improvement.
AT. 1:06 Beinert may be right. However, if Hamas takes over the PLA, I dont think so, Peter. Then, it would be the end of the Jewish people; maybe not the end, but a brutal war of Hamas against Israel. Israel would be in great danger if Hamas takes over the West Bank and the PLA. Stephens is absolutely right at 1:08.
Peter is a very passionate advocate for Palestinian rights. Does he include the hundreds of thousands living in refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon? I don’t think the have rights in those countries. Cannot obtain higher education, have restrictions to employment, etc.? He also states that he is against Hamas yet he doesn’t acknowledge the fact that they brutalize and steal funds from the people of Gaza. I would join a movement to remove Hamas from Gaza.
@@judiwilliams891 You madam hate the Jewish People and does not know the history of Israel : The Palestinian militias and Arab countries went to war to annihilate the Yishuv Israel is a multicultural and multiracial county. You should visit
@@judiwilliams891 You are totally wrong Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people and the redemption of the Jewish people The Woke school that you teach at sickens me and which fake reconstructionist or renewal Rabbi converted you You have no understanding of Israel
Lets discuss Ethnic Cleansing in Gaza
This is a very important debate. We need more kinds of discussion on this issue.
Is anti Nazi anti Christians ?
Overall, a good debate, even brilliant. More people should view this CZcams.
Without wasting your time, the short answer is a resounding NO!!!
So ironic that two years later we saw just how violent they really are
Yes -- If Israel is existentially dependent on zionism...
Peter Beinart was phänomenal. As for Bret, he seems to not have updated or nuanced info. His references makes it feel like this talk was done 20 years ago. I was surprised to see that it was just last year. Is he selectively dismissing Hamas's new charter, Ben Gurion's biography (A State at Any Cost: The Life of David Ben-Gurion) and how it is very clear that he was not looking to co-exist with arabs in an equal manner. For gods sake he did not even bother learn arabic while he learnt 4 or 5 other languages. Is bret not aware of revised history books like that by Benny Morris (a zionist himself) on the ethnic cleansing and provocation of jews... anyway, thanks for sharing the talk.
Why anti zionism should be readily explained as anti semitism????!!!?And why people bother to put it in this stand???!
The problem with Beinart's analysis is he views the predicament of the Palestinian people as strictly due to Israel. He assumes that Palestinians bear no responsibility for their current situation. It's also a matter of hubris and naieve to claim that any government of Israel would agree to national suicide as he suggests. He also completely avoids trying to contemplate what all of the Hamas terrorists and Palestinian Jihad terrorists would do once they are allowed in the "binational state." It would be like the US giving citizenship to Al Qaeda. If Palestinians completely disarmed and renounced terrorism, they would have their own state; if Israel unilaterally disarmed, there would be another Holocaust. October 7 proved what Hamas is all about.
🎉
GAZA IS A CONCENTRATION CAMP
Yes, it is. Thanks to Hamas who the people themselves elected. And the billions of dollars that they used to build a military jihadist state rather than improve their life. Do your research and quit spouting stupidity.
yes
No it's not, because Zionism has little or nothing to do with Judaism.
A 109 likes and 109 comments lol. You can’t make this shit up.
What a good and inspirational man Peter Beinart is - I agree with every word he said. Thank goodness he still has a platform - unlike so very many other equally good and inspirational Jewish people/academics/activists in the US and throughout the world! Bret Stephens' views, however, are deeply disturbing! (I await the predictable 'algorythm-driven' robots/trolls' postings/'dislikes') !
No!
OF COURSR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you dont need to spend years debating this...
its VERY LOGICAL!!!!
even a 10 year old can tell you..
ANTI ZIONISM isn't ANTI JEWISH...
remember being JEWISH.. doesnt mean ISRAELI anymore..
you dont have to be JEWISH to be ISRAELI now...
Now, its Kurds and F-16s; cant we keep this debate focused...please.
So at least our hatred of Trump will bring us all together… And ironically, it turns out… There are truly very fine people on both sides😂
Beinert is also eloquent. and Jodi Rudoren also ends the debate eloquently.
Eloquently false.
But she got better as the debate went on.
Peter is completely in denial of the reality in the middle east.
BYE BYE ISRAEL
Hitler defines fascism in a similar way. To defend and ensure the continuatiom of christianity...So whats the differwnce.
Beinert should speak a little slower.
No its not
Sick of hearing about anti-semitism. The wealthiest, most powerful, entititled, privileged and safest people in the Western world always going on about how victimized they are.
@1-888- IM-TELLN-AGAIN Get daily "news" stories about it.
The 1/3 of us who were exterminated in the Holocaust are quite quiet. Some privilege.
@@boazmunro478 How many people were killed in WWII? Don't know? Nobody does. But we all know the 6 million number. Why is that?
This guy needs to get the names straight before he introduces people and journals. It's "Jewish Currents", a progressive socialist Jewish paper, that I write for; and Jodi Rudoren, editor of the Forward.
Actually, I take that back. it takes her like five minutes to ask a question that I even forgot what the question is, Please, Jodi, ask a question quickly and succinctly. and ask about BDS, is it anti-Semitic? also explain to the audience what the Sunrise Movement is? Most people don't know what it is. Now, she jumps to Ben and Jerry. She's all over the place. Very confusing. .
One word no
Lol exactly. Why does this need one and a half hours of explanation?
@@kamrat_ett1722 it doesn't unless you need convincing lol save your time
@@buckfizzard291 Unless you are against the existence of the Jewish state then the answer is....yes .
@@pjnadler4648 tell me more about Israel abiding by the Torah
@@pjnadler4648 so being against a national organization makes you a anti semite right wonder why you edited the comment the revelation given to moses ect is a bit different in running a state and core values wouldn't you say
Both of them are excellent and articulate in their views but she jumps all over the place and sadly, doesnt follow through because she does not have a full command of the subject. I wish I had been the moderator.
I thought she was an amazing moderator.
I'm sorry to say this, but if you truly believe them both to've been "excellent and articulate in their views" when one (Stephens) basically acted as a stenographer for the IDF and all of Israel's past elected leaders... well, I'd say you'd have been no better as a moderator than the one you've critiqued. Beinart's position is infinitely more sincere, honest, and accurate to the current situation on the ground than the biased, anti-Palestinian bullshit Stephens and plenty of other people like him tend to peddle.
Brett needs to catch up he is living in another time and place and ignores today’s reality , he is a very ignorant man !
“If you look at the present map of Palestine, you would realise that it is near impossible to have two states because the Israeli settlements have been built to spilt up the Palestinians. Following the 1967 war, Israel began establishing numerous settlements, or illegal housing developments for Jewish Israelis only on stolen Palestinian land (colonies). There are now thousands of these settlements throughout the West Bank and Gaza, as well as numerous settlements in the Syrian Golan Heights. Settlements are one of the major blockages to a peaceful and just resolution to Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians and other Arabs. The "roadmap" to peace calls on Israel to dismantle these settlements and to return the land to the rightful owners. Unfortunately, Israel continues to expand existing settlements and to build new ones.” Gideon Levy
Indigenous people cannot "colonize" their own land, but, thanks for playing.
As most Zionists are CHRISTIAN, accusing critics of Zionism of "anti-semitism" would seem most inappropriate!
Your comment is the very reason for this debate and the reason that antisemitism should not be hyphenated. By that I mean when people say "how can Arabs who are Semites be "anti-Semitic"? The answer is that antisemitism is Jew hatred. And critics are not accused of antisemitism. Just antisemitism in accordance with the IHRA definition which you should acquaint yourself with.
@@pjnadler4648 So you are saying that anti-Zionism has nothing at all to do with Jew hatred? I would agree. So the people who accuse anti- Zionists of antisemitism should just button it. Agreed!
@@johnhall2612 Hitler and Eichmann were Zionist. In fact a coin was made to celebrate Nazism and Zionism collaboration through the Hazara or Transfer agreement.
@@everythingandmore5537 ...and your point is?
@@johnhall2612 the nazis were Zionist. The nazis were anti Semites. Thus the Zionist were anti Semites.
Both are eloquent speakers. Beinart speaks too fast and stammers frequently. I am not convinced that Beinart really understands what it is like living in Israel, even though he claims he does. Beinart has his arm-chair liberal agenda and then sees Israel as he thinks it should be. That is not realistic. Beinart ignores many facts of living in Israel and the within the region because it does not suit his agenda. Israel is not an apartheid state. There are Arab Knesset members, one Arab party is part of the government. There are Arab doctors and nurses in entire medical system - hospitals, HMOs, pharmacies.
There are Arab students in all the universities. Bedouin and Druze serve in the IDF and slowly there is a trend or movement of Arabs serving in the IDF. It is not all perfect but slowly there is an awakening of awareness and tolerance on both sides. Sadly, where ever Palestinians as a group have moved - their communities crumble and are ruled by a small group of narcissistic leaders who horde the wealth.- West Bank, Jordan, Lebanon and Gaza . The Palestinians are suffering because of their own leaders. The Arabs that live in Israel know that their lives are better off in Israel - economically, medically, education, their women and daughters have options. It is not yet perfect, but there is an enormous improvement.
AT. 1:06 Beinert may be right. However, if Hamas takes over the PLA, I dont think so, Peter. Then, it would be the end of the Jewish people; maybe not the end, but a brutal war of Hamas against Israel. Israel would be in great danger if Hamas takes over the West Bank and the PLA. Stephens is absolutely right at 1:08.
i forgive you for your crimes against humanity.
No
It is. Thanks for playing.
@@axaeyexuslol no
@@Justiceactivist lol yes
At 1:15, Bret Stephens is so eloquent.
Peter is a very passionate advocate for Palestinian rights. Does he include the hundreds of thousands living in refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon? I don’t think the have rights in those countries. Cannot obtain higher education, have restrictions to employment, etc.? He also states that he is against Hamas yet he doesn’t acknowledge the fact that they brutalize and steal funds from the people of Gaza. I would join a movement to remove Hamas from Gaza.
@@judiwilliams891 I will always accept the centrality of medinat Israel in Judaism and you are a self hating Jew
@@judiwilliams891 You madam hate the Jewish People and does not know the history of Israel : The Palestinian militias and Arab countries went to war to annihilate the Yishuv
Israel is a multicultural and multiracial county. You should visit
@@judiwilliams891 so if you support Israel you are racist : The Palestinians are the world’s biggest racist
Israel is a multiracial county
@@judiwilliams891 and you must support self hating jews of Jewish voice for peace and Students for Justice in Palestine you are so off
@@judiwilliams891 You are totally wrong Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people and the redemption of the Jewish people
The Woke school that you teach at sickens me and which fake reconstructionist or renewal Rabbi converted you
You have no understanding of Israel
Palestinian are semite no antisemite
When Beinert says "Israel brutalizes Palestinians" I can see why people hate Beinert.
And yet...
Yeah, cuz the truth tends to hurt.
brett is absolutely right
National liberation for the Jews . from whom to liberate.those people they never had a country so when you say libarate liberate from whom i wonder