Unlike Paul Pierce, DJ played defense. One of the best defensive guards of all time. Watch the 85 series against Lakers.. he flat out shut down Magic after game three switch. Plus he made everyone better around him. Truth is good, but didn't win anything until they got Ray and KG. DJ took a Seattle team to a title.
Bird, McHale, and parish? We forget how unbelievable that front court was. There’s a lot of great others sure...but personally I don’t think any team had a better front court
I'd go Bird, McHale, and Walton - though that was only one year and not a lot of the time. Robert was an all time great, Walton WHEN HE WAS HEALTHY was GOAT calibre.
Man I miss Kevin Mchale as a commentator for TNT! I use to get some good laughs from his commentary and he always had solid insight. Much better than Shaq if you ask me. Webber is very good also
Shaq has gone from worse of all time to merely bad. Webber is a much better analyst, but he's always butthurt by jokes like Shaq so he wouldnt improve anything. If they ever had the balls to replace Shaq, they should add a self-depracating non-player who knows bball well (ie: Zach Lowe) -- he is getting better every single episode of The Jump. Or Chauncey Billups if theyre gonna go another ex-player.
80teg webber is good as an analyst but obviously heavily favors some players and teams (harden, rockets, lebron, cavs) and can't be told he may be wrong
Totally agree with Charles’s list. I scrimmaged with Dave Cowens in college as a freshman when he was a sophomore. I am alive today only because Dave liked me. Dave was quick, fast, strong and mean. And he was a quick jumper-only players can know what that means. Auerbach drafted him number 4 and when his choice of an under sized center was questioned, responded that he would have taken him had he had the number 1 pick (ahead of Lanier, Tomjanovich and Maravich). As usual Red was proved right.
Dennis Johnson was so good...underrated Also let's not forget Reggie Lewis and also Len Bias. Imagine the teams the Bulls and etc. would have faced 93-96 with those two
I'm a big fan of Barkley, but NO ONE messed with Dave Cowens. That dude was as tough as anyone who ever played in the NBA. Think of all the great centers Cowens, at 6'8, had to routinely face: Abdul Jabbar, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, Artis Gilmore, etc. Aside from Jabbar, who was a force of his own, Cowens routinely faced off against some of THE most brutish of centers, in any era, and nobody messed with him still.
Dave Cowens, possibly the best basketball player to come out of Florida State University. I don't understand why his home state of Kentucky didn't recruit him as hard as FSU coach Hugh Durham.
+Misha Gelenava Huge Bird fan and think he is on a very short list of GOAT's. But when you think about Russel's rings - its unfathomable. And as McHale said - Wilt was someone he had to face. So I'd have to give the edge to Russel. I love Magic (all these years later we Boston fans have put down the weapons) but I think the top 3 GOATs are Russel, Bird and MJ and if you want to put Magic in as 4th ok. But Bird had the best fundamentals of any player then, now or probably well into the future. MJ was the most exciting and athletic player we've ever seen. The only reason I give Russel his due because of rings vs MJ's 6 rings, is because MJ just didn't do it against tough 80's teams. He didn't do it till the league saw the expansion teams and Magic and Bird were out or on the way out.
Not unfathomable when you consider no one has had so much talent on one team, and at the same time never faced anything in terms of competition... Russell led his team in blocks, steals, and rebounds. Bird led his team in points, assists, rebounds, steals, and was 3rd in blocks overall.
Exactly. I think Jordan edges Bird, but it isn't as big of a gap as the media would push. If you gave Bird Jordan's legs, and it wouldn't be close..skill wise Bird and Hakeem are arguably the two most complete players of all time. MJ although ONE of the most skilled of all time, had the luxury of freak of nature genetics combined with an awesome work ethic like Bird had.. The only thing Jordan beats Bird in are steals and points. MJ led his team in steals and points. Bird led his team in points,rebounds,steals,assists, FT% for starters, 3p%, and was 3rd in blocks. Clutch? I think they are equal.
Reggie Lewis was my favorite Celtic and I'm glad McHale recognized this to all watching this show.He was going to take them to the next level. McHale had the BEST post moves of all time with those "Kevin McHale" arms! What does no one in the league now have any moves like Kevin did? He was un guardable! Had more moves than Ex-Lax!!
reggie lewis wasn't that great he was an all,star but not an all time great player he didn't have that potential len bias would have been and all time great
Well,thank you very much for your help.Nothing better than being told how wrong I am.So I guess your opinion is THE one to listen to. I guess the next time I want to say something kind about anyone I should refer to you first so I can have my opinion stepped all over.Thank you for pointing out my incorrect thinking.im so happy u exist. Bet you are real popular with he ladies!
+Robert Rawins hakeem was in a class by himself way better player and post player than mchale I thought McHale was a lil overrated I don't believe u could have built around McHale he was a good second third option.Barkley was overall better and Duncan Malone garnett was also better I would choose them guys before I pick McHale
Not a celtic fan never been but I been saying this to all my boyz for the longest. During that era Jordan/Pippen were seen as the best one-two combo in the league. If Bias/Lewis were alive they'd have given Jordan/Pippen some serious problems!!!!
1. Larry Bird 2. Bill Russell 3. John Havlicek 4. Dave Cowens 5. Kevin McHale 6. Paul Pierce 7. Robert Parish 8. Sam Jones 9. Kevin Garnett 10. JoJo White Just an opinion
If there are 1,000 more NBA seasons, the 1986 Front line with Bird, McHale and Parish along with Bill Walton coming off the bench will still never be equaled.
Dave Cowens was incredible. We went to a Celtics game in Cincinnati (last year the Royals were there) and Cowen dives for a lose ball almost landing on my dad.
The dynasty Celtics are much harder to judge...They played team ball in a league where most players were more concerned about their individual stats, focused on defense in an era where offense was king...They were practically an old school American company, training their own replacements.
LOVE the soundboard, ernie. also, even as a lakers fan, i appreciate mchale's enthusiasm for celtics lore. he's like the big freakin green bard of mass.
What Cowens lacked in height, he made up for with a non-stop motor, toughness, and skill. I’m sure the big centers of that era hated playing against Cowens because he was a matchup nightmare.
That was HILARIOUS. Barkley & McHale both are funny guys, and having them in the same room together was great. I'd pay good money to hang out with those 2 guys.
I think that Charles made an extremely valid point in the names that he listed. Granted, I'm not old enough to appreciate the greatness of the Cousy, Russell, Jones era as I was born in '78. However, I'll take both Charles and McHale at their word for they are old enough and both have a broader scope of basketball and the Celtics than I. One thing I do find interesting is the amount of fans downplaying the value of both Dennis Johnson and McHale. I find that interesting especially when you consider that in his book, "Drive: The Story of my Life", Larry claims that Johnson was the best pointguard and McHale the best power forward he ever played with. That's pretty high praise from a bona fide Celtic legend.
It's a tough debate, but at the VERY LEAST, I would put Pierce ahead of K.C. Jones, Dennis Johnson, Sam Jones and Bob Cousy. The people who are putting Pierce ahead of Havlicek are making a mistake, however.
+Trent Diamanti Not sure Robert Parish is in the Celtic top 10. Very good but not in the top 10. He was a great role player sandwiched between Bird and McHale.
+Trent Diamanti ...Russell, Cousy, Havlicek, Cowens, Bird, McHale, Parrish, Jo Jo White, and Dennis Johnson were all obviously better than Pierce. Unless you can make the case that Sam Jones and K.C. Jones were not as good as Pierce, then Pierce is outside the top ten Celtics.
Greenwolfe Green If you look them up on basketball-reference there is def a case to be made on Pierce vs. KC Jones, Dennis Johnson and Cousy. I'm generally on the side of "old school basketball players were better than most modern fans think" but there are era factors to consider as well.
He had to go against Oscar Robertson and Jerry West. Every team had two guards that could hurt you on any given night. KC was able to neutralize that greatly. It's something hard to quantify. Sharmen and Sanders are two others...
It's patently absurd to rank Pierce behind Jo Jo White, KC Jones, and Dennis Johnson (who I have a huge amount of respect for, but he played a limited number of years for the Celtics). Respecting the old school is one thing, doing it at the expense of objectivity is not good. Pierce is somewhere near the Hondo/Cowens/Parish tier of Celtic greats.
Larry Bird is by far the best Celtic ever. It's not even close. Bird and Magic understood the game in a way that nobody else does. They completely dominated their respective conferences until the Bad Boys had their run and MJ came into the picture. That was during the golden age of basketball. That was the Old Testament. Bird and Magic are on a whole different level from everyone else and then MJ has his own universe. This is Gospel.
@@bricefleckenstein9666 wilt was a legendary player that can argue individually his better than all but MJ yes he was that great plus i think kareem can beat bird and magic individually but the greatest of all time is for sure MJ
If you look at the russell crew Bob cousy Sam jones K.C jones Bill sharman Frank ramsey Havlicek Among others Those guys knew no one could stop them no one can out win out hustle bill russell. Then you enter the 70s every one of those guys is retired except havlicek who is still playing till 77-78 season with jojo white, dave cowens paul silas among others. Then you enter the 1980s if Reggie lewis and len bias if both of those guys did not die those two could have carried the celtics from 86-early 2000s it would be possible those 2 with a few key pieces could have given mj a run for his money. Imagine this lineup PG:Dee Brown SG:Len Bias SF:Reggie Lewis PF: Ed Pinckney C:Robert Parish I m going off of the 93-94 celtics roster with Bias and lewis if they were living and playing in the league.
+unorthodoxHD Besides rebounding, there is nothing Parish could do better than Pierce (ok and kicking peoples asses, everyone knew not to mess with Parish). Pierce is a better overall player, at the least the 4th greatest Celtic of all time....
You younger guys are forgetting Cousy (greatest point guard ever when he retired), Havlicek (the greatest 2-3 swing man, greatest 6th man & all-time leading Celtics scorer), Cowens (league mvp & one of the greatest defenders & rebounders ever). Sam Jones & Bill Sharman were all-time great shooting guards too.
It's not a tough debate - Pierce is a no brainer at this point. Russell, Bird, Havlicek, Cousy, Cowens, McHale, Pierce, S.Jones, Parish, Garnett, with apologies to Sharman, Heinsohn, Jo Jo, DJ, Tiny, & Ray.
I'm sorry, the all-time leading scorer in the franchise's history, won a ring etc, he's definitely top 10 celtic of all time. You'd have to be out of your mind to think differently.
Ya'll are right and I apologize, I thought I heard someone say on television he had passed Hondo. Still, any #2 scorer on any franchise should be in their franchise's top 10 all time.
Jo Jo white isn't in the hall of fame. It's probably the most famous snub in all of basketball despite being a 7 time all star and finals mvp. If Reggie Miller is allowed in the hall of fame why the hell aren't the finals mvp's Cedric Maxwell and Jo Jo white in the hall of fame?
Yet, Ralph Sampson and Bill Bradley are! Wow. Rodman and Mullin are borderline (or should be) as well. Reggie Miller scared the hell out of teams and made you focus on him.
I love Chuck, but he never saw K.C. Jones play at all except some old bits of film, and maybe the random playoff game. Jones was a defensive specialist, but was NOT a scorer. DJ was far better overall, and Pierce certainly was. Pierce is #16 all-time in scoring! If he plays this season, he'll pass up Havlicek and be ahead of all Celtics greats in points. Goddamn, Chuck. C'mon, man!
Pierce after 20 years in the league finally passes Havlicek , big whoop. Pierce didnt even average 20 pts a game over his career and he played on a team for many of the Celtic years that sucked and he was the go to guy.
C: Bill Russell PF: Kevin McHale SF: Larry Bird SG: John Havlicek PG: Bob Cousy After that I would mention names like Cowens, Parish, Garnett, Sam Jones, Dennis Johnson, Archibald, Pierce and so on.
It is so strange how Kenny and Charles are arguing about who is better between Dennis and KC right next to a guy that was a teammate of Dennis and was coached by KC.
greatest it HAS to be L.B, as much as i respect Russell and his championships, Bird had the total package, top 5 players of all time easy in basketball period..!
+ALEX Galarza They are very close in terms of how they dominated during their own eras, but.. Russell's 11 rings to Bird's 3 is a little too big a gap to ignore..
Glad this discussion took place as I have been a Celtics fan since I started watching the NBA in 1972. Now, I was a big Jo Jo White fan and know he should be on the list. I can believe Barkley did not know that Jo Jo was not in the HOF. And, McHale should have known and corrected him. Jo Jo is the one Celtic that has been overlooked by the HOF. Check his college, Olympic and NBA records. What a disgrace. Top point guard of his era, rings, 7 time all star, 5 time all NBA. What a shame.
I know--it's partly a generational thing, it's partly because people have slowly come to devalue the greatness of one team thoroughly dominating the 8-team league in the 1960's, but I think that any reasonable fan should have Bird over Russell as #1. In about 1986, it would be hard to find any contemporaneous player (other than maybe Isiah and Rodman) that didn't regard Bird as the greatest ever up to that point in league history. The peak of Bird's career (1983-1988) is still more transcendent than the peak of ANYONE else's career that has ever played.
lebron and jordans peaks were greater....bird played with the best starting 5 ever from 84-87....all he had to do was score....they had such a great team around bird...3 top 50 players ever lol....in their peaks...dj mchale parish ainge hall of famers left and right...and they had bill walton off the bench....when dennis johnson is your 4th best player your team is stacked.....there is a reason parish who played more games than anyone and was always reliable and consistent come playoff time won more games than anyone else until duncan in the regular season and why he was great in both golden state and boston...he was the first real 18 and 8 3rd option ever...mchale and bird dont win shit without parish
razkable Other than this season, who has LeBron James' competition really been? It doesn't diminish his greatness all that much, but the equivalent of the super-team that was the 80's Celtics (and BTW was also sometimes the 80's Lakers, Sixers and Pistons) was the James' Heat, and other than the brief blip of the 08-10 Celtics, LeBron James has never had another elite team in his conference since very early in his career. How many great teams were in the league during Jordan's peak? And he BTW also had 2 other hall of famers and a hall of fame coach.
Tf are you talking about? Noone in 1986 thought Bird was the best ever, OK besides maybe some super biased Boston homers. In 1986 you could probably argue that Bird's in the top 3 but no way was he better than Kareem and Russell. Oh and Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, and LeBron all had better peaks than Bird
@@legoatjames8540 So...no. It was a pretty widespread belief in 1985-87 that Bird was the greatest ever. Look back at national media from that era. Red Auerbach in 1986 had already said he'd rather build a team around Bird than around Russell. And I'm not denying the greatness of any of the players you have mentioned, but I cannot agree. Bird won 3 straight MVP's and finished 2nd in the three previous seasons, in arguably the most stacked period in league history. Duncan didn't win 3 MVP's in his career. Shaq didn't. Bird had nearly as many rebounds in his career average as Duncan and Shaq did (10 to 10.8 and 10.9), despite it being Bird's 3rd most impressive skill and barely talked about at all today. Wilt was a more dominant player--he was a head taller than almost everyone else and had been a high-jumper, so he'd regularly have 50 point games or 30 rebound games, but it was predominantly dunks and layups against size-overmatched defenders. The amount of ways that Bird could score and could dominate a game without the ball are unsurpassed.
@@SteveGellerMusic Nah, it wasn't a widespread belief at all, the vast majority of sane people did NOT consider Bird as the best ever in 1986, he hadn't done enough to be considered better than Russell or Jabbar. And we're talking primes here, not how many MVPs they had or their career averages. If I was GM and 2000 Shaq, 2003 Duncan and 1984-1986 Bird were all lined up, Bird would be my third pick.
Even though KC Jones won 8 championships as a player with Boston, his career scoring (7.4) and rebounding (3.5) numbers are not very good and he only shot 39%. It's kind of like calling Steve Kerr one of the greatest Bulls because Jordan and Pippen pulled him along for the championships. I would have no problem replacing KC Jones with Paul Pierce on the list of greatest Celtics.
i think as solid as KC was his playing days are overrated for his coaching exploits. If he wasn't a coach i don't think he'd be in the HOF. I agree with Kenny that DJ was better
Top 5 1.Bill Russell C 2. Larry Bird SF 3.Bob Cousy PG 4.Kevin Garnett (only from celtics era 2007 and forward)PF 5. Paul Pierce SG Coach : "Red" Auerbach
As much as i love dennis johnson, i feel like he was more a all time seattle player. 1.Bird 2.Russell 3.Havelicek 4.Cowens 5.Mchale 6.PIERCE 7.Sam Jones 8.JoJo 9.Whoever is left 10......
DJ knew his job was as a role player, and he did it better than just about anyone ever. Definetely not under rated by those he played with and against.
Paul Pierce is one of the greatest Celtics ever, the same with Kevin Garnett. Ray Allen tarnished his legacy somewhat but he should be included as well. Now, top ten players, I dont know. But I admire and respect what Pierce has done. He stuck with the Celtics when they were bad, he had several opportunities to leave but he stayed. And I hope to see him again next season. That reminds me, I gotta call Ainge and tell him he has to keep Pierce.
Lifelong celtics fan. Agree completely with CB. Pierce would have been 7 or 8 or maybe 9 on the depth chart on the 86 team. Decent player but definitely not a top 10 all-time celtic. Maybe top 15. Maybe.
the game changes every 10 years or so....so all stats are incomparable and to me you cant compare the 50-80's to todays games cause you only had 10-20 max teams and no aba stars no merger... no 3 point shot....the pace was different no shot clock...no 3 in the key rule no 5 second back to the basket back down rule... and everyone was 6'6 at most except for russel and wilt...and point guards were all under 6'0 ...and the league was mostly white until the 80's...and until the 90's was half white...
The team fg% of the 80s was higher than today. The team total rpg (both offensive and defensive boards) was only 2-3 higher because they took 5-8 more fga per game. So as far as the 80s go, that is not necessarily the case because their play style led them to take the ball inside more often.
Sean Jones The OP and Razkable were talking both about multiple decades (both talked about the 80's btw). I was addressing only the 80's not the other decades because I am aware that there was a significantly higher amount of FGA per game (20 or so more from what i remember) and I agree that it's stupid to compare rebounding stats from those decades. However, the 80's weren't that different statistically. My point being that statistical (quantifiable/discrete) comparisons to the 80's are fair.
Bill Simmons has his top 8 Russell Bird Hondo Cousy Cowens Jones Mchale Pierce Thats by their greatness, and the list obviously goes on. Plus you have the eras, huge difference between a Cousy and a Rondo, their point guards separated by 50 years. If you re going by the best possible starting 5, you just gotta, gotta have top 3 Celtics, Russell at C and Bird at SF and Hondo at I guess a SG. Then you gotta throw in a PG and you go with a pass first guy, Cousy for legendary status or a DJ for defense or a JoJo for grit or a Rondo for doing it all (but cant hit a lick from the outside and guards can sag off? big weakness). At PF you can take McHale or play a 6-8 Cowens here, even if he’s not a center. I guess with Bill liking the ball at high post to share it with teammates, that kinda collides with Dave, operating in the same spots.... so Kevin is the natural choice to give some scoring down low. Pg Cousy Sg Hondo Sf Bird Pf Mchale C Russell Great squad. But the funny thing is, if you assemble a squad outside this top 5, and add some role players - like the best shooter in Celtic history, plus a Rondo and a KG, they can actually beat this TOP FIVE. Pg Rondo Sg Ray Allen Sf Sam Jones Pf KG C Dave Cowens Four all time great hustle players and possibly the best shooter ever..... damn!
this is pretty simple... paul def better than kc... and id take him over dj and parrish..who really only seemed great because of who they played with,,,, but mostly its just impossible to make a top ten list from team who has had such long history of great players... like trying list top ten yankees... or montreal canadiens...or lakers even...
+Vanessa Lopez actually it does. why dont you go take a look at the nba all time leading scorers. the top 10 are ALL in the hall of fame! the scoring may not be all they do but it was a major part. we are talking about all time in 1 teams history!.
paul pierce is not a top 10 celtic. Its unfair cause he would be the best player on a couple of franchises and would be top 10 on all besides the lakers and celtics.
nate rand Larry Bird, John Havlicek, Bill Russell, Kevin McHale, Cousy, Cowens, Sam Jones are the only one's I'd take over Pierce. Parish, DJ, Jo Jo and KC Jones .. especially those last 2, no way. KC Jones doesn't touch DJ either. Charles pays way too much respect to older players and is so stupid.
***** Bird, Russell, McHale, Cousy and Hondo are in a class above the rest, imho. Parish comes next; he was a great center who was productive for a long time in an era of great centers; his numbers, while good, suffered only because he had to share the frontcourt with Bird and McHale. I put Cowens next; an elite frontcourt talent with that something special that makes a champion. After that, I put Pierce and Dennis Johnson. DJ would get a higher rank than Pierce, except some of his best years were with Seattle, and I'm only counting what they did with the Celtics. Remember, DJ was an absolute shut-down defensive PG, especially against bigger guards. He was one of very few PGs who could guard Magic straight up, and his D vs. the Rockets big backcourt in '86 was crucial to the Celtics winning the Championship that year.
1. Larry Bird, 2. Bill Russell, 3. John Havlicek, 4. Kevin Mchale, 5. Paul Pierce, 6. Bob Cousy, 7. Dave Cowens, 8. Sam Jones, 9. Robert Parish, 10. Jo Jo White. 11-20. Tom Heinsohn, Dennis Johnson, Kevin Garnett, Bill Sharman, Nate Archibald, Frank Ramsey, KC Jones, Cedric Maxwell, Danny Ainge, Ray Allen, Satch Sanders
Good list, mine would be a bit different though. .... Ray Allen and KG are not on the list because they didn't play as a Celtic in there prime, correct?
I would EASILY put Paul Pierce ahead of KC Jones, Dennis Johnson, and Sam Jones. EASILY. That's because Paul Pierce has had to Carry His Team In contrast to those 3 players whom were Elite Role Players that were not the Central Focus. I would even argue that Paul Pierce should also be ahead of Kevin McHale, and Parish as well because both those players got to play with Larry Legend. Remove Larry from the equation and would still be amazing? Pierce was thrust to be the Guy to lead Boston back to the Promise Land, and unlike those names I've mentioned, he has had to endure being the #1 guy to not only produce but to be the leader as well. I just don't get it here. Imo, the only ones who SHOULD be ahead of Pierce is Russell, Bird, Cousy, and Havlicek. Take into consideration that I'm running off the top of my head so I may be missing some, but those 4, if you put ahead of Pierce, I'll nod and say, Okay. However the rest of them? Come on man. Notice how the Top-4 who were ahead of Pierce were Also Leaders of their Teams at one point and time and brought championships as well.
Not Dennis Johnson. Let's not forget that Dennis Johnson had already won a title with the Sonics before he came to Boston and was Finals MVP. He ain't no ordinary role player.
+Jin Kazama well i agree that parrish,, but mchale is probably the best if not the snd best power forward ever... like he said, if he played somewhere else he would have scored alot more, but wouldnt have had as much fun.... so no paul pierce is not as great as mchale
I fucking lost it when Barkley made the zebra noise.
McHale was like "That sounds like something that was sick." LOL
😂😂😂😂😂😂
what's funny is, when you think of what a zebra sounds like, he's probably not far off. haha.
“Tougher than me?” “Man i’d beat dave cowens like he stole something” i love you charles 😂😂😂😂
Charles will never get over the fact he won zero championships
@@lordemed1 Can you blame him? Played on all those crappy 76ers teams.
Dennis Johnson is so underrated
he played with three hall of famers and got a little bit shadowed by that but he was no slouch ofc
@@YanusDV Dennis Johnson made the Allstar team with 3 different teams so, no he's not underrated. He's just forgotten.
steve noe Underrated in modern discussions is obviously what he meant.
Bird said on several occasions that D.J. was "the best player I ever played with."
Unlike Paul Pierce, DJ played defense. One of the best defensive guards of all time. Watch the 85 series against Lakers.. he flat out shut down Magic after game three switch. Plus he made everyone better around him. Truth is good, but didn't win anything until they got Ray and KG. DJ took a Seattle team to a title.
DJ IS A HALL OF FAMER!!
God bless this great man!
Bird, McHale, and parish? We forget how unbelievable that front court was. There’s a lot of great others sure...but personally I don’t think any team had a better front court
I'd go Bird, McHale, and Walton - though that was only one year and not a lot of the time.
Robert was an all time great, Walton WHEN HE WAS HEALTHY was GOAT calibre.
@M
TROLL
That's what Barkley literally said
What about the lakers one of 80s.
most feel it's the greatest front line. amazing
Man I miss Kevin Mchale as a commentator for TNT! I use to get some good laughs from his commentary and he always had solid insight. Much better than Shaq if you ask me. Webber is very good also
Shaq is turrible. Fee-fi-fo-fum. Don't even know what he's saying half the time.
Shaq has gone from worse of all time to merely bad. Webber is a much better analyst, but he's always butthurt by jokes like Shaq so he wouldnt improve anything. If they ever had the balls to replace Shaq, they should add a self-depracating non-player who knows bball well (ie: Zach Lowe) -- he is getting better every single episode of The Jump. Or Chauncey Billups if theyre gonna go another ex-player.
80teg webber is good as an analyst but obviously heavily favors some players and teams (harden, rockets, lebron, cavs) and can't be told he may be wrong
I think Jalen Rose is awesome too
They should do a Kevin and Kevin thing with Mchale and Garnett..... (especially since they have a kinship because Mchale drafted him into the league.)
Kevin McHale and Barkley should have their own show! Always laugh my ass of listening to those two! Bleed Green!
The best thing is that they both just say what is on their mind, Kevin McHale is one of the most candid NBA personalities, similar to Chuck.
Have to agree with you go 76ers
I love to see Barkley and Mchale together. Two legends, and yes the 86 Celtics were the best team of all time.
Yeah they were! I'll put that team against any team. 40 -1 at home that season. Wow!!
Totally agree with Charles’s list. I scrimmaged with Dave Cowens in college as a freshman when he was a sophomore. I am alive today only because Dave liked me. Dave was quick, fast, strong and mean. And he was a quick jumper-only players can know what that means. Auerbach drafted him number 4 and when his choice of an under sized center was questioned, responded that he would have taken him had he had the number 1 pick (ahead of Lanier, Tomjanovich and Maravich). As usual Red was proved right.
Gotta love Charles giving it up to the 'best front court ever'. That's cool.
big 3 owned barkley lol
@@KRHEE Not when Barkley got in shape, getting 30 and 20 on them-lol
I think robinson and duncan was better
@@powerboatguy2308 this is a lie
@@Liam-ex4mf because you have no clue what you're talking about.
Dennis Johnson was so good...underrated
Also let's not forget Reggie Lewis and also Len Bias. Imagine the teams the Bulls and etc. would have faced 93-96 with those two
DJ did finally get into the HOF which he fully deserved.
I'm a big fan of Barkley, but NO ONE messed with Dave Cowens. That dude was as tough as anyone who ever played in the NBA. Think of all the great centers Cowens, at 6'8, had to routinely face: Abdul Jabbar, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, Artis Gilmore, etc. Aside from Jabbar, who was a force of his own, Cowens routinely faced off against some of THE most brutish of centers, in any era, and nobody messed with him still.
+Mike S True & Jabbar didn't mess with him either.
+Mike S i agree
Kareem knew Kung Fu. He STILL didn't fuck with Dave Cowens.
Kudos for the shout-out to Cowens, who is too often overlooked.
Dave Cowens, possibly the best basketball player to come out of Florida State University. I don't understand why his home state of Kentucky didn't recruit him as hard as FSU coach Hugh Durham.
For me Larry Bird is number one despite Russell's rings.
+Misha Gelenava Huge Bird fan and think he is on a very short list of GOAT's. But when you think about Russel's rings - its unfathomable. And as McHale said - Wilt was someone he had to face. So I'd have to give the edge to Russel. I love Magic (all these years later we Boston fans have put down the weapons) but I think the top 3 GOATs are Russel, Bird and MJ and if you want to put Magic in as 4th ok. But Bird had the best fundamentals of any player then, now or probably well into the future. MJ was the most exciting and athletic player we've ever seen. The only reason I give Russel his due because of rings vs MJ's 6 rings, is because MJ just didn't do it against tough 80's teams. He didn't do it till the league saw the expansion teams and Magic and Bird were out or on the way out.
+jjs777fzr Jordan was a great athlete with great fundamentals
+Brock Lee For Three defense Bird was a,stiff on defense all,around my ass
Not unfathomable when you consider no one has had so much talent on one team, and at the same time never faced anything in terms of competition...
Russell led his team in blocks, steals, and rebounds.
Bird led his team in points, assists, rebounds, steals, and was 3rd in blocks overall.
Exactly. I think Jordan edges Bird, but it isn't as big of a gap as the media would push. If you gave Bird Jordan's legs, and it wouldn't be close..skill wise Bird and Hakeem are arguably the two most complete players of all time. MJ although ONE of the most skilled of all time, had the luxury of freak of nature genetics combined with an awesome work ethic like Bird had..
The only thing Jordan beats Bird in are steals and points. MJ led his team in steals and points. Bird led his team in points,rebounds,steals,assists, FT% for starters, 3p%, and was 3rd in blocks. Clutch? I think they are equal.
Whenever McHale and Barkley get together, it's fucking hilarious.
It's classier too. I like Shaq, but he's too egotistical and has an enormous chip on his shoulder.
Oh!!The Good Ol' Days!The Great Celtic team of the 80's made my basketball childhood years complete!!Many thanks to them!
RIP TO THE GREAT REGGIE LEWIS! Thanks for mentioning him McHale!
Charles Barkley, "Tougher than me, man I'd beat Dave Cowens like he stole something" Lmao XD
Reggie Lewis was my favorite Celtic and I'm glad McHale recognized this to all watching this show.He was going to take them to the next level.
McHale had the BEST post moves of all time with those "Kevin McHale" arms! What does no one in the league now have any moves like Kevin did?
He was un guardable! Had more moves than Ex-Lax!!
hakeem had way better post moves..McHale was average reb only average 7 for carrer
reggie lewis wasn't that great he was an all,star but not an all time great player he didn't have that potential len bias would have been and all time great
Well,thank you very much for your help.Nothing better than being told how wrong I am.So I guess your opinion is THE one to listen to. I guess the next time I want to say something kind about anyone I should refer to you first so I can have my opinion stepped all over.Thank you for pointing out my incorrect thinking.im so happy u exist. Bet you are real popular with he ladies!
+Scott Loomis u welcome
+Robert Rawins hakeem was in a class by himself way better player and post player than mchale I thought McHale was a lil overrated I don't believe u could have built around McHale he was a good second third option.Barkley was overall better and Duncan Malone garnett was also better I would choose them guys before I pick McHale
Dennis Johnson, one of the most underrated point guards, and also one of the best.
Absolutely!! DJ is my favorite having grown up in Boston during the 80's. Bird to DJ such a great combo!
That Len Bias & Reggie Lewis combo would have been a problem...
Absolutely ... a healthy Len Bias & Reggie Lewis would have taken away at least two of Michael Jordan's rings.
Not a celtic fan never been but I been saying this to all my boyz for the longest. During that era Jordan/Pippen were seen as the best one-two combo in the league. If Bias/Lewis were alive they'd have given Jordan/Pippen some serious problems!!!!
Probably 5+ more titles easily... & No pistons titles.
Absolutely
Len was a beast the talent he had
Graviton1066 yea right not even close
I am fortunate to have gotten to see the 92 Celtics in Oakland. Reggie Lewis was such a great player.
Ernie with the punchlines. “A Chainsmoking Zebra” I’m dead 😂🤣😂
C - Bill Russell
PF - Kevin McHale or Kevin Garnett
SF - Larry Bird
SG - John Havlicek or Paul Pierce
PG - Bob Cousy
I'd say
C - Bill Russell
PF - Kevin McHale
SF - Larry Bird
SG - Paul Pierce
PG - Bob Cousy
Kevin McHale.
Agree totally!
Russell
Garnett
Larry
Hondo
Dennis johnson
6 man : sam jones
C-Russell PF-Garnett SF-Bird SG-DJ PG-Cousy
1. Larry Bird
2. Bill Russell
3. John Havlicek
4. Dave Cowens
5. Kevin McHale
6. Paul Pierce
7. Robert Parish
8. Sam Jones
9. Kevin Garnett
10. JoJo White
Just an opinion
montrast0705 Cousy
I agree mostly but wheres Bob Cousy and Dennis Johnson?
I couldn’t argue with that expect to add Cousy, and DJ.
Ain't no way DJ and Cousy out of the list!
Reggie Lewis was my neighbor and it still makes me sad. He was really putting it together. A really sweet shooter.
Dave Cowens averaged 16.2 Rebounds in his MVP season 1973
and he did not deserve it either
@@dantej32 Yep, Kareem even though he already has the most regular season MVPs in history, he should have won more.
Stop talking about points. There are many valuable contributions. Not only points.
@@innosanto learn to read
What did russell average during his prime?
Dave Cowens, Paul Silas and John Havlicek were an incredible front line.
Actually Jojo White Wasn't in the HOF at the time of this segment but this year he is going to be in the HOF Well Deserved
I love it when these guys get together. Hilarious. And McChale has a wicked sense of humor.
It shows wat kind of person harden is that he fell out with a gentleman like McHale
If there are 1,000 more NBA seasons, the 1986 Front line with Bird, McHale and Parish along with Bill Walton coming off the bench will still never be equaled.
Dave Cowens was incredible. We went to a Celtics game in Cincinnati (last year the Royals were there) and Cowen dives for a lose ball almost landing on my dad.
I love how they managed to get from a list of Celtic greats to Barkley threatening to beat Dave Cowen's ass.
Chuck is the funniest sports guy ever.
@@eriklehnsherr9249 , and i dont remember ever disagreeing with him
I love when McHale and Barkley get together. Those 2 are better than most comedians today.
The dynasty Celtics are much harder to judge...They played team ball in a league where most players were more concerned about their individual stats, focused on defense in an era where offense was king...They were practically an old school American company, training their own replacements.
Larry Bird is the greatest player ever
MJ
I'm a Celtics fan and the GOAT is Bill Russell
Jordan is "Air." Cool.
Russell is "The Secretary of Defense." Ooof
Larry is "Legend."
One of these things is not like the others.
hard to prove you wrong...comes down to a matter of opinion, oui?
Wilt *_STILL_* holds 68 individual records.
feel free to argue for 2nd best all you want.
they changed rules to keep Wilt down.
it didnt work.
As a Celtics fan since 1960, I agree with Kenny. My 10 (in order): Bird, Russell, Havlicek, McHale, Sam Jones, Pierce, Cowens, Parish, Cousy, White.
LOVE the soundboard, ernie. also, even as a lakers fan, i appreciate mchale's enthusiasm for celtics lore. he's like the big freakin green bard of mass.
What Cowens lacked in height, he made up for with a non-stop motor, toughness, and skill. I’m sure the big centers of that era hated playing against Cowens because he was a matchup nightmare.
if i see a zebra, i will always hear chuck's version of a zebra sound haha
That was HILARIOUS. Barkley & McHale both are funny guys, and having them in the same room together was great. I'd pay good money to hang out with those 2 guys.
I think that Charles made an extremely valid point in the names that he listed. Granted, I'm not old enough to appreciate the greatness of the Cousy, Russell, Jones era as I was born in '78. However, I'll take both Charles and McHale at their word for they are old enough and both have a broader scope of basketball and the Celtics than I. One thing I do find interesting is the amount of fans downplaying the value of both Dennis Johnson and McHale. I find that interesting especially when you consider that in his book, "Drive: The Story of my Life", Larry claims that Johnson was the best pointguard and McHale the best power forward he ever played with. That's pretty high praise from a bona fide Celtic legend.
Shaq..pistol Pete and Walton were only there too briefly..same with Reggie Lewis....
Larry LEGEND!!!! 🏀🏀🔥🔥🔥
It's a tough debate, but at the VERY LEAST, I would put Pierce ahead of K.C. Jones, Dennis Johnson, Sam Jones and Bob Cousy. The people who are putting Pierce ahead of Havlicek are making a mistake, however.
+Trent Diamanti except for bob cousy i would agree
Not DJ, DJ was a proven winner before he got to Boston.
+Trent Diamanti Not sure Robert Parish is in the Celtic top 10. Very good but not in the top 10. He was a great role player sandwiched between Bird and McHale.
+Trent Diamanti ...Russell, Cousy, Havlicek, Cowens, Bird, McHale, Parrish, Jo Jo White, and Dennis Johnson were all obviously better than Pierce. Unless you can make the case that Sam Jones and K.C. Jones were not as good as Pierce, then Pierce is outside the top ten Celtics.
Greenwolfe Green If you look them up on basketball-reference there is def a case to be made on Pierce vs. KC Jones, Dennis Johnson and Cousy. I'm generally on the side of "old school basketball players were better than most modern fans think" but there are era factors to consider as well.
Great show!!
Man, growing up in Boston watching "that" team with "those" guys. Does not get any better.
I agree with Barkley.
i dont really know 60s basketball very well so correct me if im wrong but is kc jones at ~8 ppg really comparable to paul pierce?
He had to go against Oscar Robertson and Jerry West. Every team had two guards that could hurt you on any given night. KC was able to neutralize that greatly. It's something hard to quantify. Sharmen and Sanders are two others...
No, he’s a damn plumber
Scoring was noy his primary job. He was a great defensive player. Scoring stats are not the whole story.
You could put DJ on the top of the list and I wouldn't argue. Great defender and floor general and clutch shooter.
1. Bird
2. Russell
3. Havlicek
4. Cowens
5. McHale
6. Cousy
7. Parish
8. Sam Jones
9. Pierce
10. Dennis Johnson
It's patently absurd to rank Pierce behind Jo Jo White, KC Jones, and Dennis Johnson (who I have a huge amount of respect for, but he played a limited number of years for the Celtics).
Respecting the old school is one thing, doing it at the expense of objectivity is not good.
Pierce is somewhere near the Hondo/Cowens/Parish tier of Celtic greats.
I agree, except for Cowens. Cowens could easily be number 3-4
1:04 gets me every time!!
Best basketball show ever!!!
kudos sir well said, educate these characters on the history the league
Larry Bird is by far the best Celtic ever. It's not even close. Bird and Magic understood the game in a way that nobody else does. They completely dominated their respective conferences until the Bad Boys had their run and MJ came into the picture. That was during the golden age of basketball. That was the Old Testament. Bird and Magic are on a whole different level from everyone else and then MJ has his own universe. This is Gospel.
Bill Russell can argue the point.
Nobody else is in the running.
@@bricefleckenstein9666 wilt was a legendary player that can argue individually his better than all but MJ yes he was that great plus i think kareem can beat bird and magic individually but the greatest of all time is for sure MJ
No Name I love Larry! But you need to take a long hard breath before you say anybody was better than Russell.
@@altair227 Wilt Kareem and MJ were not Celtics.
You obviously were not around during the Russell Era. The Celtics never won a game when Russell was out with n injury. think about that.
Mr. Charles"Sir Charles"Barkley(NBA Hall of Famer),would have most definitely made that list had he been a Celtic!!!
If you look at the russell crew
Bob cousy
Sam jones
K.C jones
Bill sharman
Frank ramsey
Havlicek
Among others
Those guys knew no one could stop them no one can out win out hustle bill russell.
Then you enter the 70s every one of those guys is retired except havlicek who is still playing till 77-78 season with jojo white, dave cowens paul silas among others. Then you enter the 1980s if Reggie lewis and len bias if both of those guys did not die those two could have carried the celtics from 86-early 2000s it would be possible those 2 with a few key pieces could have given mj a run for his money.
Imagine this lineup
PG:Dee Brown
SG:Len Bias
SF:Reggie Lewis
PF: Ed Pinckney
C:Robert Parish
I m going off of the 93-94 celtics roster with Bias and lewis if they were living and playing in the league.
Great stuff
1.larry bird
2. Bill Russell
3. Parish
4. McHale
5. PAUL PIERCE
+unorthodoxHD Besides rebounding, there is nothing Parish could do better than Pierce (ok and kicking peoples asses, everyone knew not to mess with Parish). Pierce is a better overall player, at the least the 4th greatest Celtic of all time....
PersianSelection the more i think about, 70s basketball and back were complete trash. he could be 2 or 3
You younger guys are forgetting Cousy (greatest point guard ever when he retired), Havlicek (the greatest 2-3 swing man, greatest 6th man & all-time leading Celtics scorer), Cowens (league mvp & one of the greatest defenders & rebounders ever). Sam Jones & Bill Sharman were all-time great shooting guards too.
1. Bill Russell
2. Larry Bird
3. John Havilcek
4. Bob Cousy
5. Kevin McHale
Disrespect to Cooz and Cowens...smh
It's not a tough debate - Pierce is a no brainer at this point. Russell, Bird, Havlicek, Cousy, Cowens, McHale, Pierce, S.Jones, Parish, Garnett, with apologies to Sharman, Heinsohn, Jo Jo, DJ, Tiny, & Ray.
tiny! yeah..fuck the celtics history is amazing....they form the best 15 man team in nba history....they would shit on the lakers
Top 5
1. Bill Russel
2. Larry Bird
3. John Havilek
4.K.C Jones
5. Kevin McHale
As a kid in the 80's, I was a Lakers' fan. Today looking back, I would be a Celtic.
Pierce is easily a top 10 Celtic. In the 5-7 range.
I'm sorry, the all-time leading scorer in the franchise's history, won a ring etc, he's definitely top 10 celtic of all time. You'd have to be out of your mind to think differently.
I thought John Havilcek was the Celtics all time points leader?
goatboytone1 He was, but Pierce passed him.
CLewey44
No he did not. If he stayed in celtics he would pass him.
Ya'll are right and I apologize, I thought I heard someone say on television he had passed Hondo. Still, any #2 scorer on any franchise should be in their franchise's top 10 all time.
McHale the GOAT
3:04
DJ made it into the Hall months after this show.
Jo Jo white isn't in the hall of fame. It's probably the most famous snub in all of basketball despite being a 7 time all star and finals mvp. If Reggie Miller is allowed in the hall of fame why the hell aren't the finals mvp's Cedric Maxwell and Jo Jo white in the hall of fame?
Jo Jo isn't in HOF. Probably should be. Maxwell good in his prime, doesn't have the longevity.
JoJo White isn't in the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame?????? What the f...................................
Yet, Ralph Sampson and Bill Bradley are! Wow. Rodman and Mullin are borderline (or should be) as well. Reggie Miller scared the hell out of teams and made you focus on him.
Jo Jo White just made the Hall of Fame
Billy Causgrove Terrific. Well deserved.
I love Chuck, but he never saw K.C. Jones play at all except some old bits of film, and maybe the random playoff game. Jones was a defensive specialist, but was NOT a scorer. DJ was far better overall, and Pierce certainly was. Pierce is #16 all-time in scoring! If he plays this season, he'll pass up Havlicek and be ahead of all Celtics greats in points. Goddamn, Chuck. C'mon, man!
Trey B. Cartwright those guys before were coldblooded
Pierce after 20 years in the league finally passes Havlicek , big whoop. Pierce didnt even average 20 pts a game over his career and he played on a team for many of the Celtic years that sucked and he was the go to guy.
That is a bad arguement. If you are talking about best player, great defense carries as much weight as scoring.
C: Bill Russell
PF: Kevin McHale
SF: Larry Bird
SG: John Havlicek
PG: Bob Cousy
After that I would mention names like Cowens, Parish, Garnett, Sam Jones, Dennis Johnson, Archibald, Pierce and so on.
It is so strange how Kenny and Charles are arguing about who is better between Dennis and KC right next to a guy that was a teammate of Dennis and was coached by KC.
greatest it HAS to be L.B, as much as i respect Russell and his championships, Bird had the total package, top 5 players of all time easy in basketball period..!
+ALEX Galarza Russell is the nba all-time g.o.a.t.
+ALEX Galarza They are very close in terms of how they dominated during their own eras, but.. Russell's 11 rings to Bird's 3 is a little too big a gap to ignore..
+KayJayA7X so therefor Russel is better than Jordan??
I agree with this guy rings don't mean shit
Russell, Bird, Hondo, McHale, Cousy, Sam Jones, and Pierce belong in there. The others are debatable.
Ok...fair point.. cowens..should be though
Forget 82 game regular season, I need a 82 episode Barkley Zone
Glad this discussion took place as I have been a Celtics fan since I started watching the NBA in 1972. Now, I was a big Jo Jo White fan and know he should be on the list. I can believe Barkley did not know that Jo Jo was not in the HOF. And, McHale should have known and corrected him. Jo Jo is the one Celtic that has been overlooked by the HOF. Check his college, Olympic and NBA records. What a disgrace. Top point guard of his era, rings, 7 time all star, 5 time all NBA. What a shame.
I know--it's partly a generational thing, it's partly because people have slowly come to devalue the greatness of one team thoroughly dominating the 8-team league in the 1960's, but I think that any reasonable fan should have Bird over Russell as #1. In about 1986, it would be hard to find any contemporaneous player (other than maybe Isiah and Rodman) that didn't regard Bird as the greatest ever up to that point in league history. The peak of Bird's career (1983-1988) is still more transcendent than the peak of ANYONE else's career that has ever played.
lebron and jordans peaks were greater....bird played with the best starting 5 ever from 84-87....all he had to do was score....they had such a great team around bird...3 top 50 players ever lol....in their peaks...dj mchale parish ainge hall of famers left and right...and they had bill walton off the bench....when dennis johnson is your 4th best player your team is stacked.....there is a reason parish who played more games than anyone and was always reliable and consistent come playoff time won more games than anyone else until duncan in the regular season and why he was great in both golden state and boston...he was the first real 18 and 8 3rd option ever...mchale and bird dont win shit without parish
razkable
Other than this season, who has LeBron James' competition really been? It doesn't diminish his greatness all that much, but the equivalent of the super-team that was the 80's Celtics (and BTW was also sometimes the 80's Lakers, Sixers and Pistons) was the James' Heat, and other than the brief blip of the 08-10 Celtics, LeBron James has never had another elite team in his conference since very early in his career. How many great teams were in the league during Jordan's peak? And he BTW also had 2 other hall of famers and a hall of fame coach.
Tf are you talking about? Noone in 1986 thought Bird was the best ever, OK besides maybe some super biased Boston homers. In 1986 you could probably argue that Bird's in the top 3 but no way was he better than Kareem and Russell. Oh and Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, and LeBron all had better peaks than Bird
@@legoatjames8540 So...no. It was a pretty widespread belief in 1985-87 that Bird was the greatest ever. Look back at national media from that era. Red Auerbach in 1986 had already said he'd rather build a team around Bird than around Russell. And I'm not denying the greatness of any of the players you have mentioned, but I cannot agree. Bird won 3 straight MVP's and finished 2nd in the three previous seasons, in arguably the most stacked period in league history. Duncan didn't win 3 MVP's in his career. Shaq didn't. Bird had nearly as many rebounds in his career average as Duncan and Shaq did (10 to 10.8 and 10.9), despite it being Bird's 3rd most impressive skill and barely talked about at all today. Wilt was a more dominant player--he was a head taller than almost everyone else and had been a high-jumper, so he'd regularly have 50 point games or 30 rebound games, but it was predominantly dunks and layups against size-overmatched defenders. The amount of ways that Bird could score and could dominate a game without the ball are unsurpassed.
@@SteveGellerMusic
Nah, it wasn't a widespread belief at all, the vast majority of sane people did NOT consider Bird as the best ever in 1986, he hadn't done enough to be considered better than Russell or Jabbar. And we're talking primes here, not how many MVPs they had or their career averages. If I was GM and 2000 Shaq, 2003 Duncan and 1984-1986 Bird were all lined up, Bird would be my third pick.
Even though KC Jones won 8 championships as a player with Boston, his career scoring (7.4) and rebounding (3.5) numbers are not very good and he only shot 39%. It's kind of like calling Steve Kerr one of the greatest Bulls because Jordan and Pippen pulled him along for the championships. I would have no problem replacing KC Jones with Paul Pierce on the list of greatest Celtics.
i think as solid as KC was his playing days are overrated for his coaching exploits. If he wasn't a coach i don't think he'd be in the HOF. I agree with Kenny that DJ was better
damn, great list
not a huge Celtic fan but the top 5 is my top 5
Top 5
1.Bill Russell C
2. Larry Bird SF
3.Bob Cousy PG
4.Kevin Garnett (only from celtics era 2007 and forward)PF
5. Paul Pierce SG
Coach : "Red" Auerbach
As much as i love dennis johnson, i feel like he was more a all time seattle player.
1.Bird
2.Russell
3.Havelicek
4.Cowens
5.Mchale
6.PIERCE
7.Sam Jones
8.JoJo
9.Whoever is left
10......
For me
Larry Bird
Dave Cowens
John Havlicek
Sam Jones
Kevin Garnett
Dennis Johnson
Bill Russell
Jo Jo White
Bob Cousy
Kevin Mchale
Mr Rainbow Cousy
Mr Rainbow
1) Bird
2) Russell
3)Havlicek
4) McHale
5) Cowens
6) Cousy
7) Heinsohn
8) Lewis (he was going to be an all-timer)
9) Maxwell
10) Pierce
DJ knew his job was as a role player, and he did it better than just about anyone ever. Definetely not under rated by those he played with and against.
Paul Pierce is one of the greatest Celtics ever, the same with Kevin Garnett. Ray Allen tarnished his legacy somewhat but he should be included as well. Now, top ten players, I dont know. But I admire and respect what Pierce has done. He stuck with the Celtics when they were bad, he had several opportunities to leave but he stayed. And I hope to see him again next season. That reminds me, I gotta call Ainge and tell him he has to keep Pierce.
Lifelong celtics fan. Agree completely with CB.
Pierce would have been 7 or 8 or maybe 9 on the depth chart on the 86 team.
Decent player but definitely not a top 10 all-time celtic. Maybe top 15. Maybe.
Paul pierce is top 10
when will analysts realise that players in the 60s-80s had higher rebounding stats because the shooters were way worse
the game changes every 10 years or so....so all stats are incomparable and to me you cant compare the 50-80's to todays games cause you only had 10-20 max teams and no aba stars no merger... no 3 point shot....the pace was different no shot clock...no 3 in the key rule no 5 second back to the basket back down rule... and everyone was 6'6 at most except for russel and wilt...and point guards were all under 6'0 ...and the league was mostly white until the 80's...and until the 90's was half white...
The team fg% of the 80s was higher than today. The team total rpg (both offensive and defensive boards) was only 2-3 higher because they took 5-8 more fga per game. So as far as the 80s go, that is not necessarily the case because their play style led them to take the ball inside more often.
+SeanDaNerd The dude was talking about the 50s-70s where 45% was great. The pace of the game was much faster then too.
Sean Jones The OP and Razkable were talking both about multiple decades (both talked about the 80's btw). I was addressing only the 80's not the other decades because I am aware that there was a significantly higher amount of FGA per game (20 or so more from what i remember) and I agree that it's stupid to compare rebounding stats from those decades. However, the 80's weren't that different statistically. My point being that statistical (quantifiable/discrete) comparisons to the 80's are fair.
It wasn't the shooters it was the pace of the game. Watch footage, they shot the ball in seconds every time they came down
Bill Simmons has his top 8
Russell
Bird
Hondo
Cousy
Cowens
Jones
Mchale
Pierce
Thats by their greatness, and the list obviously goes on. Plus you have the eras, huge difference between a Cousy and a Rondo, their point guards separated by 50 years.
If you re going by the best possible starting 5, you just gotta, gotta have top 3 Celtics, Russell at C and Bird at SF and Hondo at I guess a SG. Then you gotta throw in a PG and you go with a pass first guy, Cousy for legendary status or a DJ for defense or a JoJo for grit or a Rondo for doing it all (but cant hit a lick from the outside and guards can sag off? big weakness). At PF you can take McHale or play a 6-8 Cowens here, even if he’s not a center. I guess with Bill liking the ball at high post to share it with teammates, that kinda collides with Dave, operating in the same spots.... so Kevin is the natural choice to give some scoring down low.
Pg Cousy
Sg Hondo
Sf Bird
Pf Mchale
C Russell
Great squad. But the funny thing is, if you assemble a squad outside this top 5, and add some role players - like the best shooter in Celtic history, plus a Rondo and a KG, they can actually beat this TOP FIVE.
Pg Rondo
Sg Ray Allen
Sf Sam Jones
Pf KG
C Dave Cowens
Four all time great hustle players and possibly the best shooter ever..... damn!
Got to love Barkley,
this is pretty simple... paul def better than kc... and id take him over dj and parrish..who really only seemed great because of who they played with,,,, but mostly its just impossible to make a top ten list from team who has had such long history of great players... like trying list top ten yankees... or montreal canadiens...or lakers even...
Larry, Bill, Havlicek, Kevin McHale, Cousy, Parish, Cowens, Pierce, Jo Jo, DJ with KG, Ray Ray, and KC as honorable mentions
sir charles horse sound was EPIC!!!!
1. Bird
2. Russel
3. Pierce
4.McHale
5. Parish
Paul Pierce is the 2nd all time leading scoring in the most storied franchise in the NBA!!!, he has to be top 5 ..all time greatest Celtics
+ALEX Galarza well no becasue just because youre a great scorer, doesnt mean youre an all time great
a lot of bad teams before the big 3
+Vanessa Lopez actually it does. why dont you go take a look at the nba all time leading scorers. the top 10 are ALL in the hall of fame! the scoring may not be all they do but it was a major part. we are talking about all time in 1 teams history!.
He was the only guy who could shoot reliably. He was on teams with some real bench warmers.
KC Jones best season in the weak 50s and 60s 13ppg 6ast on .406%
At first I also thought that the 60s were weak.
Then I learned and I changed my mind.
That said, no way KC Jones was a top 10 Celtic.
Simon it's called playing defence
Defense my friend.
dimmy Player 69s were far from weak. Do your Google's
Parrish, Allen , DJ , Lewis , Tatum, maxwell Honorable mentions . Cousy was a game controlling high volume ft shooter
Kenny is tripping !!! Hondo is in the top 5 of any all time Celtics list no contest, but you could take out Cowens in my opinion.
Good point a bout havlicek he was awesome
Kg is not one of the greatest Celtics ever as he spent most of his career in Minnesota instead of Boston
Shawn Tea He still had 5 great years there, getting a ring and a DPOY award. He’s a top 10 Celtic for sure.
paul pierce is not a top 10 celtic. Its unfair cause he would be the best player on a couple of franchises and would be top 10 on all besides the lakers and celtics.
Yeh he is.
nate rand Larry Bird, John Havlicek, Bill Russell, Kevin McHale, Cousy, Cowens, Sam Jones are the only one's I'd take over Pierce. Parish, DJ, Jo Jo and KC Jones .. especially those last 2, no way. KC Jones doesn't touch DJ either. Charles pays way too much respect to older players and is so stupid.
***** Bird, Russell, McHale, Cousy and Hondo are in a class above the rest, imho. Parish comes next; he was a great center who was productive for a long time in an era of great centers; his numbers, while good, suffered only because he had to share the frontcourt with Bird and McHale. I put Cowens next; an elite frontcourt talent with that something special that makes a champion. After that, I put Pierce and Dennis Johnson. DJ would get a higher rank than Pierce, except some of his best years were with Seattle, and I'm only counting what they did with the Celtics. Remember, DJ was an absolute shut-down defensive PG, especially against bigger guards. He was one of very few PGs who could guard Magic straight up, and his D vs. the Rockets big backcourt in '86 was crucial to the Celtics winning the Championship that year.
yeah he is dude he did alot for the franchise
bigdaddywbl Cowens is 2nd best Celts center to Russell. Parish filled his role, Cowens was a beast, though a bit small (for a center).
1. Larry Bird, 2. Bill Russell, 3. John Havlicek, 4. Kevin Mchale, 5. Paul Pierce, 6. Bob Cousy, 7. Dave Cowens, 8. Sam Jones, 9. Robert Parish, 10. Jo Jo White. 11-20. Tom Heinsohn, Dennis Johnson, Kevin Garnett, Bill Sharman, Nate Archibald, Frank Ramsey, KC Jones, Cedric Maxwell, Danny Ainge, Ray Allen, Satch Sanders
Good list, mine would be a bit different though. .... Ray Allen and KG are not on the list because they didn't play as a Celtic in there prime, correct?
I would EASILY put Paul Pierce ahead of KC Jones, Dennis Johnson, and Sam Jones. EASILY.
That's because Paul Pierce has had to Carry His Team In contrast to those 3 players whom were Elite Role Players that were not the Central Focus. I would even argue that Paul Pierce should also be ahead of Kevin McHale, and Parish as well because both those players got to play with Larry Legend. Remove Larry from the equation and would still be amazing?
Pierce was thrust to be the Guy to lead Boston back to the Promise Land, and unlike those names I've mentioned, he has had to endure being the #1 guy to not only produce but to be the leader as well.
I just don't get it here.
Imo, the only ones who SHOULD be ahead of Pierce is Russell, Bird, Cousy, and Havlicek. Take into consideration that I'm running off the top of my head so I may be missing some, but those 4, if you put ahead of Pierce, I'll nod and say, Okay.
However the rest of them? Come on man. Notice how the Top-4 who were ahead of Pierce were Also Leaders of their Teams at one point and time and brought championships as well.
Not Dennis Johnson. Let's not forget that Dennis Johnson had already won a title with the Sonics before he came to Boston and was Finals MVP. He ain't no ordinary role player.
+AgentJ2007 Exactly, out of all those Celtics greats DJ is always underappreciated.
+AgentJ2007 If we're taking into consideration DJ's Sonics days, then KG should also be ahead of Pierce.
+AgentJ2007 As great as McHale and Parish were, DJ was the second most important player on the Celtics of the mid-80s.
+Jin Kazama well i agree that parrish,, but mchale is probably the best if not the snd best power forward ever... like he said, if he played somewhere else he would have scored alot more, but wouldnt have had as much fun.... so no paul pierce is not as great as mchale