What Happens When We Die? Understanding Death and Consciousness
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- What happens when we die? What leaves our body at the moment of death? Is it consciousness? And if so, is it also consciousness that leaves a deer or a tree when it no longer has life?
A man talks about his belief that everything, including a chair or a body is made of energy vibrating at different levels. He has been in the room when someone dies and clearly seen the life leave them. He asks what leaves us when we die?
Rupert replies that consciousness doesn’t leave you. The idea that consciousness leaves you presumes that you exist as a physical body and that consciousness is located inside you.
He uses the metaphor of Mary and Jane to illustrate that when the bundle of thinking, perceiving and sensing that we are comes to an end and expands back into consciousness, the corresponding image of that activity dissolves.
Mary lives in Amsterdam, falls asleep at night and experiences herself as Jane who lives in Paris. When Jane dies on the streets of Paris, Mary’s mind doesn’t suddenly leave her. Mary’s mind remains exactly as it always is, but it ceases to localise itself in the form of Jane. So what appears to be the death of Jane is the unlocalising of Mary’s mind as Jane. Nothing happens to Mary - she doesn’t die, she doesn’t change.
This clip comes from one of Rupert's In-Person Seven-Day Retreats at Garrison Institute, in October, 2021.
Timestamps:
00:00 What Happens When We Die?
01:06 What Leave Us At The Time of Death?
01:32 Does Consciousness Continue After Death?
02:40 The Body Dissolving Into Consciousness
03:46 The Physical Body Is Not What It Appears To Be
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RS21116h
What helps me understand this concept is someone creating an avatar in a simulated video game. It really clicked in my mind, as I watched my son playing…he created his avatar, chose his “localization” and when the game was finished, “consciousness” reverted back to my son. I hope this makes some sort of sense😂❤️
that is good example, and it also points to the mistake in Mr. Spira explanation. After your sons game finished and his avatar is "delocalized", consciousness is still localized in your son. Conclusion is that we are always localized, eternally. We are not all-pervading consciousness. That is God.
@@antimaterialworld2717
Yes, in my example, my son would represent the Higher Self/Oversoul, which is also a localization of God’s consciousness.
Difficult for us measly humans to comprehend…but I believe we are all one, and we all derive from one infinite creator/God and on a mission to return “home” ❤️
@@antimaterialworld2717 maybe the "mistake" is that the example in the youtube comment isn't perfectly representative of what Rupert is saying. Why does your conclusion need to be that he is wrong?
@@florencebrisco1231 he claims that mind and physical body are localisations of consciousness. Therefore i guess his position is that conciousness is non-local. Which is correct from mundane perception of space. But anyway from Absolute point of view, we are always localized. Otherwise how would you have some many localized entities? So that example of Leah shows that even after delocalization from one manifestation consciousness still remains local in another dimension.
@@antimaterialworld2717 Your perspective is founded upon the idea that things strictly either are or they don't, they either exist or don't exist, which I refer to as "either/or".
Another perspective is founded upon the idea that within consciousness, as it's activity, things both are and they don't, they both exist and don't exist, which I refer to as "both/and".
These are modalities, or modes, in which we as "localizations" of consciousness, or individual minds, can tap into; align with these perspectives, or not.
In it's supreme nature, within Consciousness lies a possibility for things to both exist and not exist at the same time. It is both localized and non-localized "at the same time". It's that Great.
It is up to us to decide which perspective do we tap into & align with. All roads are open now.
What would you desire the reality to be??
I had 2 NDE's and was just pure awareness, pure unconditional love, total acceptance and compassion. Everything human and "here" fell away. There was no judgement or punishments of any kind. There was no time. Everything was simultaneous. I "saw" that "I" or pure awareness, had agreed to this human "life".
Thanks!
Anne. Thank you 🙏
Had a very similar experience! Agree fully.
@@andreasrylander It's as vivid now as it was when it happened. ☺
Hi Anne. I was wondering what you "saw" during your NDE's. Was it visual or just a feeling amongst a black abyss? Thanks!
I had an NDE once and what happens is the end of thought. There was pure peace and I had no thought of what happened or that I was in a body. This mind we fight with ceases to exist.
Was your experience that of being individuated?
How could we speak of "experience" at all.. Rupert places experience outside the purity of consciousness.
@@Filemonefly9 has Rupert had an NDE? How would he know? Even though I had that experience I know nothing more than that and neither does anyone else
But many People remember their NDE. I think because conciousness is conciious of itself, isnt it ? You conciousness also was there, otherwise you could not know that there was Peace.
@@XxSEETH3RxX Was it a bit like dreamless sleep then?
@@TEKutso I guess you could say it was similar to that
What happens when we die? You stop paying bills! Sweet relief!!!
What about death duties!
Death is an illusory point that ceases to be an unreal point to become a formless infinite real, eternally contracting and expanding in the dream of consciousness.
Thank you Rupert for bringing my understanding to the absence of fear of death
I love Rupert's direct approach and precision in the use of language. A simple answer to a complex question.
Nothing about this was a “simple” answer. There is no logic to his arguments, it seems that new ideas are introduced every other sentence
I could listen to Rupert speak all day, what a wonderful description of this, there will forever be ever more beautiful and wonderful ways of understanding this/god/reality/ourselves. Rupert is gifting us all this new deeper and more beautiful way of seeing what always was, what always is, what always will be. Thank you Rupert❤️
There is no death. The soul never dies or forgets ✨
Our bodies mean nothing but how we identify each other and communicate. Some of us vibrate at a much higher frequency and I believe they have come here to teach us how to reach that level.
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the Peace of God🙏💛
Jesus also taught this. Jesus said, you to can have what I have. Also he said, I am not of this world and the kingdom of God is within you! ACIM is the path I choose. Only Love is real🙂
Thank you Rupert for breaking this down👍🌞
A Course In Miracles, right?
It's an excellent book, I have watched videos about it.
👏👏👏👏
My wife farted the other night during sex. I hope to forget that, but I probably never will.
I beg to differ. Ever passed out, or fainted? It's gonna be the exact same thing. You just won't know and will never come back.
@@elizabethfonseca922
Yes!
I couldn't imagine living on this insane planet without knowing the truth about who we really are.
Blessings to you 🌟🌻
Superbly put !
What a fantastic question, super fantastic answer. Same as Great Krishna and Great Arjuna.
in reality the answer is unknowable, Rupert's attempt to answer is just speculation about the unknowable. Just a bunch of ideas without anyway to validate and therefore is only information that only a separate self would be interested in, a self that is only a thought. :)
You have to experience this to know is true, otherwise it feels as if there's just another attempt to figure out the nature of things. How do you experience this? Rest in awareness and see for yourself.
@@catalinul1461 Exactly. Thanks.
@@catalinul1461 there is no me and no you to experience this or any thing else
@@mlovidius The answers are within. I think the whole there is no me and no you aspect of non-duality falls on the side of being an unbalanced way of looking at spirituality. I mean technically yes, it's all one consciousness. But there is no denying that we are having these experiences in a body. To say we don't experience this or anything else is... Simply not true. Your experiencing my words on this screen aren't you?
You can know for yourself if you repeat a mantra, be continually present, meditate or practise self enquiry. For best results try all four. I am certain that in the next 100 hundred years or so if humans are still around it will be proven scientifically that consciousness exists and has always existed even before matter and we will find there is nothing really "supernatural" or "spiritual" about it.
I used the metaphor of a person dreaming he/she is a butterfly, then waking to realize he/she is human, but instead at death we wake to the realization that we are the universal consciousness. It's not as big a change as it it may seem since in life we are that universal consciousness focusing a facet of its awareness on the experiences of a particular individual. During that process, most of us come to identify with that individual so much we forget we are not that individual, but are the awareness of that individual. Awakened beings like Rupert or Eckert Tolle have restored their mental state to being that awareness of the individual rather than the individual. For the rest of us death is both enlightenment (returning to understanding we are the awareness of the individual rather than the individual) plus then moving from being the limited facet of the universal consciousness to ??? unknown. It seems reasonable to my human mind that it may be moving from the facet of awareness to the gestalt of awareness of being God, being the conscious universe. However, we are so limited in awareness compared to the universal consciousness, it is like an ant guessing how a nuclear reactor works, so the truth may be something too complex, to advanced, for us to conceive of. Perhaps it involves our facet of awareness moving to a new facet-node to commence observing a new individual (which could be akin to reincarnation). Perhaps it involves us having time to exist as just the enlightened facet recalling what we observed of our individual life (basically existing as our enlightened self) with time to integrate slowly or in stages into the larger consciousness. Perhaps there are hierarchies of higher consciousnesses, like the fractals of a tree leaf to outer branch, to inner branch, to trunk, etc.) wherein we merge with a higher consciousness that itself is but a fragment of a larger consciousness. I think anyone professing to know precisely how this works is a charlatan as being enlightened (awake to the reality we are all one, a facet of a universal consciousness, and not our individual thoughts/ego) does not mean you have capacity to any supernatural power or knowledge or prescience. On the contrary, it is the ego that grasps for knowledge, power, control, certainty, comfort about the future, about life after death. The awareness does not worry about that as it is a state of contentment free from fear of death. The feeling, not intellectual conceptualization, that you are part of a universal consciousness is all the comfort you need.
@@oneiro9107 to end the struggle and pain of this life. That is the purpose. To be in the place of wisdom now.
I'm gonna have to read this a couple times
Awesome!
This is possibly the most clear explanation of death I have heard.
If u understood it, care to elaborate?
@@erangadelpechithra303 not sure I understand correctly but I will take a stab at expressing how I understand it at this point....
If you make as the base, the dream metaphor, that he uses, : Jane in the dream taking place in Mary's mind... Jane dies in the dream. This is synonymous with 'us in our bodies¿ as a localization of the larger 'mind' (like Mary's mind having a dream as Jane). Then death of us in this body would be like Jane dying in the dream... Mary continues as that larger mind, even though Jane in the dream has died.
SO the death of the body you could say stops the localization of the larger 'mind' as if it were limited to being that particular individual. But in reality it never was just that particular indicidual... this is an important illusion we live under. But we as an individual are only a temporary localization of perception - just the way a dream character is a localization of the sleeper's mind. When the dream ends... it doesn't affect the dreamer.. Death...releases the mind from the avatar localization, the way waking releases the dreamer's mind from belief in the avatar in the dream as being 'reality'.
it would be great if Rupert could read this and let me know if I am off track, or on track.
Everything is Consciousness and not other than Consciousness...whether "dead" or "alive".
That's just a belief. New Age Spirituality is yet another religion with zero proof.
Well said-
Surely death is merely the end of a biological system and consciousness is not a product of biology, as is the brain for example. But neither is the mind biological. Thus the mind (psychic matter) continues and carries the consciousness constituted self into another biological system (physical matter) that corresponds with one's material desires. Until, that is, one no longer has material desires. At which point one transcends even the mind, ending one's sojourn in samsara.
The problem is always the same problem: identifying with the mind instead of with the Self. You're not your personality, your choices, your preferences at all. You as a whole are the emanation of Self. You don't even "return" to Self at "death" because that would imply a separation. You are and continue as Self. Gold is gold, whether it be formed as a necklace, an elephant-shaped ornament, electrical component. or a tooth filling.
Do you experience the feeling of the illusion going away though? Like, "Oh shit, it was just me all this time, I was just dreaming"? Do you have a "realization" after the dissolution of the ego, like in a psychidelic trip?
@@richardl.currier4052 Yes, there's a realization of that, I studied hundreds NDEs and had my own near death experiences, it's like waking from a dream and knowing it was a dream, the same exactly experience. "Oh man, this was all just a dream, why did I make it so serios? What problems? What suffering?" None of this was truly true, it was just an incredible simulation that I was a part of and that I was the simulation itself. You realize that there was no fixed you that you lived billions and trillions of lives for every single living thing. You've been all of it, all the time, there was nothing else but you, you pretending to be someone else other than you. What is not "nice" is the actual dissolution of this "I am this and that and so on...", it actually feels you are fading out of existence, many NDEs talk about that, arriving in that blackness, in that void. The more I struggled, the harder it was, just like being in moving sand, finally I gave up knowing that this is the end, "luckily" for me, I wake up. Just my two cents.
@@catalinul1461 Is this a transitory stage? Is there a point at which, after the "realization", you dissolve into an eternal deep sleep, or enter a dream-like experiential state? The reason I ask is because of this whole "metacognition" issue. It seems only higher mammals are able to re-represent their feelings and thoughts. If you lose your mind, do you still have this ability to meta-cognize?
Beauty 🙏
@@richardl.currier4052 It only took me one moment to realize this. In one NDE I found myself floating slowly towards this giant sphere of golden light, it looked like the Sun and yet was not harming to the eyes. I knew that my life on Earth was over, I knew that it took me so much to arrive at this sphere of golden light, so much time, a very long journey. I knew that I am finally there, I finally arrived there, I knew that I am about to enter something super incredible, heaven if you want. So right before entering into this sphere of golden light I suddenly woke up feeling much better but my problems did not stop there and so neither my NDEs. I found out that this sphere of golden light is the Inner Sun, the Self. Not talking about the bliss, the joy and the incredible love I was experiencing. This is how it looked like, I still have to figure out the rest of the details, but you can have an idea: i.ibb.co/qrdvj10/nice-gradient-inner-sun2.png
No, from my experiences there's no moment in which you cease to be, only this human role ceases to be, for some it may take longer, people have hellish NDEs, others find themselves in heaven like places where they go to rest in order to come back again on Earth. I visited such places a few times and it was incredible. I was given many messages and things like that. What I want to say is that you can still be the you from this world, at least for a while or even longer, or you may go straight to the source and experience massive love and realize that you are one with all things.
Listening to him discuss Consciousness, Jane, and Mary, while I'm spending good quality time with Maryjane.
People want to be comforted by the belief that they will never die. The truth is that you have never lived.
Wow! beautifully explained. It's true. Thank you...
Wow I've never seen a person explained this way. It's a brand new perspective.
It is so wild to me how Rupert Spira seems to have so totally hit on a clear and contemporary way of speaking about what all those "Saints, Prophets, Mystics 'n Buddha" types of people through time seem to have been trying to communicate about the human experience of reality.
All those "Saints, Prophets, Mystics 'n Buddha" types of people have been answering these questions for thousands of years. It all depends on the tradition and culture in which you were born.
You are western and you understand the language of another western man contemporary with you. A Chinese who lived 500 years ago would not have understood anything, he has his saints who explain with links from his culture.
There is something else important related to eastern culture, it is very practicaland they have methods and techniques.. On the other hand, in the West, people keep talking and talking from Paton until now, but there are few people who live by these words.
@@elgebarstar5275 Well, yeah, we are in the world we are in, with the languaging we language. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Western traditions to say as you did. They too had practical techniques. And example would be "orison" or the "prayer of silence". It was generally the monks and hermits who were the people apprehending non-duality. Also, in some of those traditions the words "meditation" and "contemplation" are used in ways that are specialized and not how they are necessarily understood today.
@@nsbd90now Hesychasm comes from Saint Maximus the Confessor, then Saint Gregory Palamas who publishes a theological work about the wrong labels and conceptions put forward by Western theologians, demonstrating how wrongly the West understood hesychasm.
Hesychasm, which disappears for a while from the life of the monasteries and is held only by a few hermits, reappears during the period of Saint Gregory Sinait. Who said that this prayer was no longer practiced at Athos and most did not know about it.
Now many Orthodox countries have holy practitioners of Hesychasm, and Russia is the most prosperous from this point of view. In Romania, where I was born, there are a few like Saint Paisie from Neamt, Venerable Paisie Velicicovschi or Vasile from Poiana Marului. It is known that the hesychast technique of saying the name of God in sync with breathing is taken over from the Sufis. In other words, it also comes from the East.
I personally stayed in the monastery and practiced this prayer together with the monks. The first time was in the Moldova area at a monastery in Bucovina. Then to Frasinei to an isolated monastery. The monks don't want to house anyone, but if you help them with their work and you are humble, you can stay as long as you want and learn.
In 2011, I was in the UK in Manchester, where there is an improvised Orthodox church, and the priest is trying to get closer to the Eastern tradition. Unfortunately, they did not hold all the rituals, it was more about socializing between people than spiritual practice.
@@nsbd90now Anyway, I'm surprised you know about this prayer. The majority do not know about it, even in Orthodox countries. With deep respect!
@@elgebarstar5275 lol! Thanks! Yeah, not too many people know about any of this type of thing. I kind of assume everyone of us who have found and like Rupert Spira are all already pretty familiar with a lot of the classics from a variety of traditions and have been trying for years to really get a grasp on it or we wouldn't be here.
Gospel of Thomas, “Whoever understands the meaning of these sayings shall not taste death.” 🙏
What dies is what you think you are, not who you really are.
At my age of 70yr old it won't be long till I find out something to look forward to no gas and electricity bills that are going up in Scotland by 80%
Yes it all sounds beautiful! I'm just, or rather my mind just having a hard time grasping this. 🧐🙏❤
Mind wants to categorize things because it's a tool and believes itself to be separate in a world of objects, hence it's struggle to understand the true nature of reality.
It is Conciousness that can recognize itself, like looking into a mirror.
We speak of all things as if they are possessions; my mind, my sight, my thoughts, my beliefs, my philosophy, my religion etc. Who is this "my" that we refer to? Does it really exist? Really look.
@@ina7559 well said. I would add that there is not a "you" that will realise it. It is the recognition of itself.
@@TaxemicFanatic thank you! And it's not even possible to understand it logically. Because that is my mind again. Don't know what to do really! I just can rest in that that is not possible to say or think about.
@@ingelaikagunnarsson6610 nothing to do because it just Is. Any doing comes secondary to Awareness. Know she live in accordance to Truth.
Consciousness is a frequency that is broadcasted through the physical body. An analogy could be a radio broadcasting a frequency. When the radio is turned off or broken, the frequency continues on ineffectual.
Beautifully stated
That's a beautiful question.
...and answer.
Live has the striving to live and experience itself as diverse as possible, no matter if as matter, never mind if as mind or whatever.
We experience this dimension through our body on this magnificent planet and when we've had enough our focus is shifted from the body and then by conventional outdated knowledge are proclaimed dead!
Wow Nicely Said
It's importsnt to use discernment when listening to people like this man. Not discrediting his knowledge but that's from his own perspective. Take it lightly
Our brains are only a conduit to consciousness. It exists outside our bodies and that is where we will find ourselves when the brain dies. Science is confirming that the neurons in the brain are possibly quantum in nature. This realization is (no pun intended) mind blowing.
Brains do nothing and are nothing. The atom is empty space. The atoms of the brain are empty space. The brain, therefore, is empty space. It is nothing other than an impersonal belief. The brain doesn't die because it doesn't live. There is only ever consciousness. Consciousness doesn't have brains in it.
Not even remotely correct. That notion is a poorly thought-out attempt at escaping the standard epiphenomenalism of the brain somehow generating consciousness, but falls into the exact same fallacious idea that brains still exist as noumenal material objects that instead act as a "filter" or "conduit" for consciousness.
The actual truth of the matter is this: brains only exist as representations inside of consciousness. It's not that consciousness exists outside of the body, it's rather that the body exists inside of consciousness. And consciousness itself is further a tool used by the self in order to experience, so in this way a brain is essentially a mental representation inside of consciousness depicting how the mind functions, all courtesy of the self.
@@outisnemo8443
Conduits are not generators. I never said that.
And without the brain you cannot not be aware of your existence. As flattering and respectful as your response was s I can only say that we are all growing in our understanding of what this experience is and I hope you’re enjoying yours.
@@topherj.kutsumann5420:
You're just repeating the same moronic nonsense I just thoroughly refuted.
The notion that you need a brain to be aware is where you're wrong, as that has zero basis in reality whatsoever. Like I just said, literally quoting myself verbatim:
"The actual truth of the matter is this: brains only exist as representations inside of consciousness. It's not that consciousness exists outside of the body, it's rather that the body exists inside of consciousness. And consciousness is further a tool used by the self in order to experience, so in this way a brain is essentially a mental representation inside of consciousness depicting how the mind functions, all courtesy of the self."
Those are the facts. The brain is neither a generator *NOR* is it a conduit; the brain is just a representation.
@@outisnemo8443
I hope you own a dog and it’s doing well.
It is an investigation based being aware knowingly. With the emphasis on approaching any thing with our deepest love and understanding.
Very interesting.
the question he asked ::: I always had this doubt since ages
“Mind” is the active component of spirit and is the home of consciousness”
“Life is not the beginning and death is not the end”
“Complete unconsciousness is impossible”....A Course in Miracles(Original Edition)
Consciousness is infinite.
Excellent
Yes🤔 good question
Death doesn't exist. You can't die if you're not alive in the first place.
"Consciousness doesn't leave you."
We are our bodies and nothing besides!
Do not stand
By my grave, and weep.
I am not there,
I do not sleep-
I am the thousand winds that blow
I am the diamond glints in snow
I am the sunlight on ripened grain,
I am the gentle, autumn rain.
As you awake with morning’s hush,
I am the swift, up-flinging rush
Of quiet birds in circling flight,
I am the day transcending night.
Do not stand
By my grave, and cry-
I am not there,
I did not die.
Clare Harner poem
bonjour for me the best time of day is when i go to bed i fall asleep thinking about something nice then nothing peace until the next morning.............. when i wake up and there again the problems start .........paying the bills........the problems of everyday life.....and so on............. i just want to say that if death is like a good nights sleep for me it's fine........... so in a way there is nothing to worry about.......... if you believe in paradise with god very good ............if there is none of that just eternal sleep it is very good too.............. so in conclusion there is nothing to worry about. in both cases for me it is perfect and to be honest i'm 67 and i'm really getting tired of living in this crazy world......... I love you all have a good life on planet earth maybe I see you in heaven. 😇 😂 🕉
Consciousness is omnipresent. When we die, mind leaves the body & body remains.
The body is nothing other than data. There is no matter. All data arises from the belief in objectivity.
If consciousness is omnipresent, then when we die the consciousness goes nowhere since it is everywhere. If, by mind, you mean consciousness, then it does not leave the body though it may become untethered to the body. If by mind you mean the body's experiences and egoic perspective, that may exist in some kind of universal memory bank of the universal consciousness, but to the extent the human memories are stored in the dead brain, they cease to exist.
@@mymyersfamily by mind I mean mind not Consciousness. When mind leaves the body, body dies, mind doesn't die. It takes another new body & continues its journey
It is very curious to see how the duality of language lead us to mis-understand reality. That is the “Dark Force” of Maya. Thanks God that we have some very special beings as Rupert whose mission is to show us the true hidden behind the appearance of matter time and space.
I believe that we are spirit and will survive the passing of our material body.
Rupert needs to say some times, ''I don't know''.
😂👍
But, not when he does know. I don't think you have grasped what he has been saying.
@@sirbarringtonwomblembe4098 the problem with teachers is they become authorities and once that happens corruption follows. I am not saying Richard is like this but teaching can become a trap where you answer everything that comes your way. The truth is no one knows where they are? Who they are? Or what anything is? You are a mystery in space. We are all just taking a swing at it. Ignorance could be bliss?
Admit you didn't understand... Very well and simply explained.
Indeed
Where did this Mary/Jane come from to get dropped into the middle of this video? Did Spira say something about them/her to the audience before the video started? Unlike other commenters, I find this video completely confusing.
Yes....Mary dreams herself as Jane
@@udayak6964 Thanks!
Is here a life if here is no death but only "focus of awareness"?
And awareness is everywhere...and is neither alive nor dead.😉
Life is a thought.... just like death is a thought.... just like these are thoughts.
This was very interesting. 😮im still scared to death pf dying but more so losing my parents im scared ill forget them or they will forget me.
Mary and Jane destroys it for me every time….
Right? Is he saying Mary is the eternal being just assuming the identity of Jane in this one incarnation?
my question is are we in spirit when we dream and why and why do lucid dreams feel so real
Pure speculations. No one knows what happens when we die. So enjoy journey of story telling about after death 💀
How did you know that no-one knows
@@udayak6964 Because no one has died and then come back to life to tell us what it's like. Near death experiences don't count, the brain is still firing. If someone were to die, and was dead for a few days, their body began the process of decomposition, then they suddenly came back to life, I'd want to know what they had to say.
I can’t say for certain that I existed before birth because I had no memory, although I’m pretty sure consciousness/awareness existed. What’s to say the experience of death will be any different than what I experienced before birth; i.e., no experience/nothing?
If I am Consciousness and I am currently experiencing myself through this vessel, will I no longer experience myself again once this vessel ceases to function?
Read Kant guys. he explained this first hand beautifully
If consciousness localizes into the form of a body, why doesn't the body dissapear when consciousness returns to its state of expansion? We can still see the body of the person that died. It is still solid. Touchable. It remains. I feel there is a piece missing from the puzzle. It almost makes sense, but doesn't.
That’s what I thought!
Can anybody tell me which of Rupert's books deals with the process of death and the reversion of the localised consciousness to the collective consciousness?
.
We cannot think of something like “Consciousness leaving you” because consciousness is all there IS. Where can that leave from ? Where can that leave to ? There is no place where that is not.
IMHO.
.
When we die we are released into the infinite cosmos.
Consciousness is the only Existance, & the Universe is the appearance in Consciousness. Just like in dream, the dreamers world is not separate from the dreamers mind. Consciousness has the ability to divide Itself into subject-object. Just like in dream, the mind divides itself into subject-object.
Who is Mary?
People want simple explanations to relieve psychological stress and uncertainty.
Is Spira the new Krasnamurti? He seems to have copied the Indian master's style. Pose, gestures,etc
He just makes so much sense and so validates all the classical literature.
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Some Islamic Mystical people ( you might know them as Sofis) have a simile that the ONE is like the ocean and human beings are like the waves created by the ocean. We are there for some time, then slowly go back to the ocean, some are higher/longer waves, some smaller/ shorter one, but no matter, eventually we all will join the ocean anyway.
Whoever claims to know what happens after death is a lier. It will always be a mystery. No one came ever back from real death to tell us what it's like. We just don't know, and have to accept this uncertainty. It's just another try of the mind here to get rid of it.
@@mellelicious6370 I don’t care if you a doctor, scientist, or religious. None of us know death better than people who are no longer here.
And don’t try to be a smartass and compare death to what happened before you were born because whatever state you were in before birth ended up being this. And at the end of this is death. Which brings us to the same fucking question.
There is no death; so there can be no 'after death'. No thing can be aware of non awareness.
Not the body leaves the mind. The Mind leaves the body.
No - the body is the artificial/illusional creation of the mind.
Essentially we are all experiencing "localization of consciousness" and as long as we are, we cannot experience non-localization of consciousness from an individuated consciousness? I mean, anyone who says anything, whether Rupert or a commenter is still just "localization of consciousness" or just an individuated belief of one, expressing itself. Seems like pure non-localized consciousness has no need to speak or can speak without making itself localized. Non-localization of consciousness sounds impractical for most of us, I mean every time we eat, we feed that non-localized consciousness with more individuated thoughts of what is good for us or not, adding to the habit of experiencing individuated consciousness. Then individuated death happens to make it all irrelevant, including all individuated efforts to think otherwise.
We've all experienced it. Have you ever had a dream where your dream character died in the dream? What happened? The "mind" that was dreaming wakes up and realizes it was all a dream within the mind. The same thing happens when the body of waking life dies. The eternal, infinite awareness wakes up and realizes that the experience was a dream within infinite awareness.
How do you know this to be true?
@@theunfazed7109 Thousands of NDEs.
@@Shane7492 I honestly think that is just bs. I think those folks are making those stories up for publicity. You ever passed out or fainted? That's what happens when you die.
And... Why I started dreaming about my brother, every night after his "death". Is there any explanation? He was very ill, I was conscious that something bad would happen. But why has everything changed in dreams? And why was he always there? Science cannot explain things like that
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السبب الذي يجعلنا لا نستقبل أو ندرك أجوبة لأسئلتنا هو نظرتنا العامة للموضوع، أي إذا أردنا أن ندرك ونتحصل على أجوبة علينا أن نتخلى عن نظرتنا العامة للأشياء و أن نحاول اختبارها على أساس دقيق ومرگز، إذا اتبعنا هذه الدقة والتركيز المطلق سنجد أنفسنا في وسط الجواب لأننا فقدنا الحدود التي منعتنا من الرؤية الواضحة والنقية.. ففي الحقيقة المطلقة ليس هناك مادة حتى تموت أو تحيا فكل ما هنالك هو وعي نقي خالص يتجلى كمادة من خلال حدود عقلنا الذي هو بدوره يتمركز في بعد معين فيتشكل ما يسمى بالمادة وهكذا...
فالذي يقول ان على روبيرت سبيرا أن يعترف بعدم معرفته فهو لازال يختبر الحياة من منظور ازدواجية المعرفة واللامعرفة للعقل الأرضي.
Consciousness exists prior to body. Here we need more precise explanation. We know that when we fall asleep awareness is completely lost unless in case of few who constantly train in mindfulness. What the more precise question should be, is the after death state like deep sleep where we ARE but we don't know that we are or awareness is there ? Some say that in NDE they were aware but NDE is not full death of the body so this cannot be fully credible case. If even ordinary sleep bring in most cases complete blackout what then to speak of full death of body. Blackout will be even deeper. So the only guarantee that awareness remain after the death of the body is full enlightenment, that is full awareness I am not body while body is still alive. That include ability to remember past lives. If both this abilities are there you can be certain that I Am state remain after death of body. In all other cases consciousness is still there but is more like deep sleep where you exists but have no awareness. Do you remember your existence before birth of body ? Most people probably not. So you were probably in deep sleep - like state. And that is not comforting thought. Like said the only guarantee is enlightenment while body is still alive. Otherwise yes you do exist but you are not aware that you exist. Sort of blackout until next birth. If you can leave body and explore other worlds while body is alive then also probably you will retain awareness after death even if not enlightened but for people who are completely identified with body after death state will be probably and mostly blackout. But possibilities are many. Maybe first will be complete blackout and after some time dreamlike state. Or complete blackout in case of inert (tamasic) souls. To conclude, those who practice meditation and some awareness have a big chance to retain awareness after death of body. I don't like to actuall say "practice awareness" cause some people are naturally aware I Am which is far better than practice. But also those who just practice will most probably retain some awareness.
The dude in the back has the right idea....
Problem with metaphor is that there is no Mary, metaphor implies Mary wakes up or Mary is an entity but really what is Mary, and can Mary experience anything as Mary? Is there anything to Mary other than the point of view of Jane? I.e, what can be said about Mary that isn't filtered through Jane.
Mary is God and for a while plays the role of Jane on Earth and when it dies, Jane realizes that it has always been Mary and that there was no Jane, just a role.
There is absolutely an entity that is "waking up"; that entity is what's known as the self, not to be confused with the egoic identification of the individual.
So to answer your questions, replacing "Mary" with "this entity" for clarification:
What is this entity? The self.
Can this entity experience anything as this entity? Everything is experienced as this entity.
Is there anything to this entity other than the point of view of the ego (here we substitute "Jane" with "ego", also for clarification)? Yes, the self can experience anything it wants, the point of view of an ego is just one of infinite possible experiences.
LFM. Yes! Although Rupert 's intentions may be well, his understanding of the ABSOLUTE REALITY is mistaken as all other religious mystics have. He has arrived at the knowledge I Am as the ABSOLUTE thru contemplating being aware of being aware, knowingness, knowing. After many, many years of meditation, contemplation and observation, I have come to fully concur with Nisargadatta concerning THE ABSOLUTE or WHAT simply IS. Nisargadatta clearly rebuked this approach to the ABSOLUTE simply because it is untrue. In this metaphor, Mary represents God, or Self Consciousness, but, This certainly is not The ABSOLUTE Nisargadatta Ultimately tried to point to. For this reason, Nisargadatta stated, "Knowing, Knowingness is Not the ABSOLUTE." He even went further declaring " Knowing, Knowingness is fraudulent, which has created all the mischief (suffering). For this very reason, Nisargadatta gave the Ultimate pointer to the ABSOLUTE as being prior to Brahman. These wrong notions of God, Self Consciousness as The ABSOLUTE has done more damages to Human psyche and Humanity in countless, unspeakable ways till this day. Mary that assumes,dreams all life forms of endless sufferings endlessly, is certainly Not THE ABSOLUTE, But,only a shadow parading as THE ABSOLUTE. Mary is nonexistent to the ABSOLUTE. This is the sole greatest misunderstanding, ignorance, deception of Knowingness, of Mary equating Herself as The ABSOLUTE. Being aware of being aware, perceiving the perceiver, measuring the measurer, knowing the knowing....etc, are nothing more than A Self reflection knowingness, knowledge from a human perspective on the Absolute due to Human configuration. It's a trap that shows no exit sign in sight once the mind has fallen. Mind will continue talking with a ten thousand concepts to defend its human configured knowingness, knowledge as THE ABSOLUTE.
@@joajoajb But.. this is what you are also doing, presenting concepts to defend your own beliefs, this is a self made trap according to your own words. I would go back to the background on which and from which all things appear, and rest in this background, which is pure awareness, and then suddenly, like magic all becomes clear.. Whatever you think, you think it, it's just a play of thoughts, nothing can touch awareness.. It simply is, that which is, in spite of all the apparent changes. Like the analogy between a screen and what appears on the screen, the screen does not change, only that which appears on the screen changes. What Rupert teaches is something that I realized on my own, and then I came to listen and all made sense for I myself have realized this. I tried to listen to him before I had my realization and it made no sense.
@@catalinul1461 Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Spoiling your exploration was Never the intention here. Of which, I also have done much for many, many years with the aid of Self Consciousness, Self Awareness. Consciousness can certainly be conscious of itself, Thus, The Knowledge I Am. We may call it God, Self Consciousness, Self Awareness, or even Mary . Names do not make a slightest difference. Maybeit it can be said, I, Consciousness perceiving my own Conscious Self is the beginning and end of all Knowledge. What Nisargadatta meant by The ABSOLUTE being prior to Brahman, he was trying convey the Ultimate Nature of the ABSOLUTE as being prior to Self Knowledge or Self perceiving. Thus, his statement " The ABSOLUTE is nothing perceivable, nothing conceivable ". What Conscious mind considers, nihilistic is the closest Knowledge that can be conceived concerning The ABSOLUTE . I know no other ways, to speak of the ABSOLUTE other than in terms of negation, relative to Knowledge. Have a nice day friend!
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The problem is that we couldn't give a certai vitality to what will happen after death I have once experienced the OBE 10 years ago but I couldn't express what happened cause it's beyond the language it's just reality
Is the mind then completely disconnected from the remaining body? Because it takes a while until the body dissolved into nature completely and is used in another concentrated form. Is the mind directly in its original space of wholeness and is it ONE mind for all? Is it forming new concentrated energy into physical beings after the "old body" died?
No one knows. We're all just speculating.
Only from the perspective of a sperate entity can other beings exist. From the perspective of Consciousness it (or it's energy) isn't divided into "things". It (also you) is always whole, perfect and at peace.
If you take a cup of water from the ocean would you consider it to be something other than water?
@@TaxemicFanatic Beautiful. :)
@@ina7559 They were never there to begin with, it was just a play, a simulation, a game. They dissolve back into you, as if they never existed in the first place, all that ever was, was you all along.
The mind was never connected to the body. The apparent body/mind is itself an impersonal program. It is impersonal data only.
Does thinking persist after death of the body?
i think you cannot think after you die, or there is something similar. I think that after death, there is something what we can call pure existance, you exist but you can't think. you just are.
What did I miss? What do Jane and Mary have to do with each other? Why are we talking about two people?
The body is food for consciousness. No body. No consciousness...using the word consciousness as the knowledge: I am
I don't think you have understood a single word he has ever spoken.
@@sirbarringtonwomblembe4098 My comment does not contradict what Rupert said
@@awakenotwoke7949 Sorry. My response seems to have attached to the wrong comment. 👍
We can pretend to know what happens to "Mary" / "conciseness" / the body of Jane / a fallen tree. The truth is, we know nothing, it requires no explanation.
I still find difficult to understand the difference between mind, memory and experience. Experience implies memory but memory dies with the body. I believe that we are here to experience, but how is that experience retained after death when our consciousness becomes de localised (of that's the correct expression).
How too does this all relate to good or bad things we have done in our lives? Some aspects must be retained as experience.
Hi
Very nice set of questions.
What you are asking is about action, seeds of action, fruits of action, conservation of values, rebirth cycles, what is the ultimate reality of you, etc.....
Detailed epistemology, specific pedagogy are available which could answer your questions satisfactorily. Sounds like you have read some, doubts remain, dive into it. It is fun on the way to the destination.
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So, where does my conciousness realocate? What happens to all my conditioned conciousness that was associated with my human existence? Do I still love chocolate?
Consciousness doesn't relocate - it becomes unfocused/universal again.
Only if it isn't Toblerone.
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How does any living person know what happens when you die? It's impossible to know.
What does it feel like to be dead? It's the same experience you had before you were born.
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Rupert said that he doesn’t see his physical body. How is that?
I believe what he's saying is, his body doesn't really mean anything. The soul is what actually exists not a body.
Watch the movie, "What the Bleep do we Know?" This will answer many questions you may have.
Hope this helps 🌻
Do you remember a life or anything before you were born? I don't. So that's what happens. You return to nothingness. You cease to exist. There's no coming back. How would someone know otherwise?
Why dont all masters then say: dont do anything, when u die you will be enlightened instantly. Why effort and meditations and teachings when they could just say enjoy the life and when u die you will be back to consciousness. But nope. We need effort obviously, so there is more to us then just physical body and perfect consciousness
According to Holy Quran after we will become a new creation which God only knows
we will never truly know what happens after death until we die ourself !
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I guess this is a valid thing to say.
All isms and conclusions are based on inferences projected from experiences culled from current universe or realm. In effect such theories could all be approximations of ultimate reality.
Yet the thought shared by Spira here could be a nearer approximation available, looking at its symmetry and logic, compared to some others..
IMHO only
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We need a living brain for awareness and consciousness ! 😒
we live in a simulation !!!
As a Muslim we believe our soul never die,
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we know you guys enjoy with 72 virgins, what do muslim women get?
Eh. Could be...
"It is appointed to man, once to die and after this the judgment " - the Bible. Truth folks, it's Heaven or Hell below