Progress Party Leader Siv Jensen on Norway's Myths and Realities
Vložit
- čas přidán 28. 09. 2010
- In a country of exceptionally high rates of personal taxation and home to one of the world's most generous welfare states, Norway's Progress Party, which describes itself as a "classical liberal" organization committed to "personal freedom," is something of an anomaly. But it is an increasingly powerful anomaly, now ranking as the country's second biggest political party.
In August, Progress Party leader Siv Jensen sat down with Reason senior editor Michael C. Moynihan and explained that Norwegians are growing tired of "regulation, bureaucracy, and high taxes" and why the Scandinavian health care model is bad for America-and Scandinavia.
Approximately 5 minutes.
Got to Reason.tv for downloadable HD, iPod, and audio versions of this and all our videos, and subscribe to Reason.tv's CZcams channel to receive automatic notification when new content is posted.
The system isn´t perfect, but I´ll rather pay taxes so everyone can get help, instead of paying the insurance companies. Come on! Look at USA!
#frp2017
@yakyakyak69
The French revolution slogan was freedom, equality, brotherhood. Equality means more than just equality for the law, but also social equality. Like access to healthcare for all, and access to equal education for rich and for poor.
Her English is superb. In fact, her accent is sounds something halfway between American and Scottish.
We do have private hospitals in Norway but they are way expensive! Do not believe everything a politician tells you...
Well said Siv. Kids Medicine is miserable in our little country, children are not given priority. Social health care is deadly for many people in our "rich" countries Norway. Although we had to flee to the U.S. many times to children's hospital there to save our sick children's lives. Thanks to the American people's hospitality and their very good doctors in the United States.
@MooseOfReason The cheapest whisky is 400kr ($69) per liter. I remember strong moonshine being VERY easy to come by when i was 13-14.
I think its pretty cool that Norway also has a Libertarian Movement and that they are not a one party Democratic Socialist State. That they do have other points of views.
@Hollandia777 Thank you for your comment. Most Norwegian people are brainwashed. They think well of the system until they are there though and need help from the public.Please distribute my film, harmful social healthcare, in your country, and wherever you want. Thank you!
I've experienced the same thing... The fact that Michael Moore removed the Norway segment form his movie "Sicko" because he(or they) thought americans wouldn't believe it and call him a lier, shows that americans doesn't think our system works anywhere..
@ObjectivistAesthetic Well that depends very much where in europe you lived.
there are 50 countries in europe so it's pretty hard to believe that you experienced all of them and or u.s. would be ahead of every single one of them.
there are huge differences between these countries.
I'ts in rare cases that you have to wait up to a year to get an operation... And we have a system here that allows you to be evaluated and so those who need the quickest care, gets the quickest care. We have very good healthcare... not perfect, but good
I would have liked to hear what Siv had to say about legalizing marijuana. In general Scandinavian politicians are fanatically opposed. Those who might favor legalization keep their mouths shut so as not to prematurely end their politcal careers.
My question to her is, if the Norwegian system is somehow worse, why are they healthier, better educated and listed higher on the human development index?
@sanoj92 "... and the land of the people who have just as much freedom as they need, and the home of the brave." Ladies and gentlemen - our new national anthem.
@ofarrizzle I'm not so sure it's actually worse, but that doesn't mean a freer market isn't better. My mom's a nurse, and it's not that great. Overworked nurses frustrated with bureaucratic chaos. Remember: vast natural resources, and it doesn't all go to pay for wars, abroad or home (drug war). The US isn't very far behind Norway in public health spending either. BTW, FDA+patents makes stuff very expensive and slow to market, or blocked (when it's not patentable). It's deadly "protection".
Can you imagine what their taxes would be like if they weren't swimming in oil money?
I liken government to a homeowner's association: it's self-created and self-authoritarian; it demands and commands submission and tithes to function, all the while it is absolutely unnecessary. Name one thing government does that a private company can't do for me, on my terms, and probably at a lower price.
-Yea, it makes a lot of sense to use an external spell checker, especially since there's one built into the comment editor here. Did I use MS Word or not? It will be a question for the ages....And if it was the case that I did, would that have anything to do with the arguments I made? Thanks for proving my point,
-By the way, try to start a line with a - (minus) sign and then push enter after the sentence. It's how you make a list of arguments in your comment.
@Ressenatior The Progress Party is a nice mix of liberal and conservative, not just conservative. We have a party who's international name is The Conservatives
Am I right in saying that this the FrP is the Norwegian BJP/PAP?
+黎安沛 yup
FRP = Nazi Party
stupid idiot, you have no brain
fuck off u commie
@@skumgun i wish
The progress party is now the third of Norway and almost impossible will grow much. There is no reason to chance a good system with a system that does not work at all. And let's imagine they take away Universal health care the population would rebel . In Europe health care is a right.
@AdamaGeist Few freedoms? You should look at the indexes; Scandinavia beats the US on the democracy index as well as the freedom of the press index. We're ahead of them on economic freedom, though this doesn't mean much, since New Zealand, Chile and Switzerland are all way ahead of us, and all three have universal health care. The United States isn't the freest country ever. We just like telling ourselves that so we can go to sleep at night.
80% tax rate
State owned oil companies(Their biggest companies)
Strong trade union movement
Highest living standards in the world
Social democracy is truly the best form of government.
Its a reason why everybody parties in disagree with FrP and her. She serves the richest poeple and not the poeple as a whole.
The system will not be perfect, but we get 12 months 80% maternity pay, all surgeries are free, universities are free, all students get really good student loans and scholarships and most people I have met that has used the hospitals are very happy about the care.
You can easily come from a poor family and educate yourself to be a lawyer without a rich family supporting you. In Norway we believe that we should do what we can to help poor people to be on the same footing as rich people.
I agree Siv Jensen those problems are a reality in Norway, but show me a country in the world without any problems at all!
Do you Siv Jensen want a official health care system that focus on their patients, or do you want hospitals which focuses of profit?
By opening the marked won't necessarily make it better, but I can guarantee you that it will make a bigger difference between the rich and the poor!
If you look at the big picture, you will see that Norway has succeeded well!
@ThePirateEconomist
That's pretty close to the original use. In Germany they had "Die Deutsche fortschrittspartei", and they were actual liberals, not like the Orwellian usage later in the US, and AFAIK so was FRP (fremskrittspartiet) in the seventies, now they seem to be more like US conservatives. Not something real liberals would vote for. "Libertarian" = liberal, or actually anarcholiberalist. FRP is not a libertarian party, neither is todays US libertarian party.
Hvor i all verden får Siv tallene sine ifra? Og nesten 80 % toppskatt uten arbeidsgiveravgift er 47,8%. Er for fjerning av formueskatt, men hvor får du tallene dine ifra?
I am Norwegian and the vodka is too expensive, but everyone can afford it. Still it is stupid with the overwelming tax. But the cheapest wine is 11 bucks, that is cheap. Not 50% tax Siv Jensen come on...
And from 40 dollars and up the wine is just normally premium wine price, like the rest of europe. Unless you go to a private winefarm in France
I hear Bernie Sanders in the United States and the NDP in Canada quote on these nations
He's called Crazy Bernie for a reason.
A common money-foundation is not socialism.
Norway is capitalism with strict laws, proventing evil roots from taking ground in our country. While the lefties(modern liberals) says "we need to remove evil capitalism", they are basically looking at the capitalism from america (what I can agree on is abit bad). But because capitalism in america is abit bad, doesnt mean the norwegian capitalism is bad. We have strict laws, proventing low earnings, and if you get fired, you can sue the company. Something america dont have.
I'm a pro-capitalist, anti-socialism. pro-money foundation. and also against america capitalisme, becuase it abit bad to give people super low earnings, If I were american I wouldnt fight against capitalism, but I would fight for more strict laws on the capitalism.
For anyone that isnt knowledgable about norweian politics; the progress party is only hte NAME of the party, it does not always mean that progress is on hteir itinnerary.
@Slaktern
I call FRP the Niorwegian equivalance to the Tea PArty...
I have experienced the best of what norwegian health care has to offer. I recently went through two big surgeries, one where I had to remove one of my bowels because of canser. I'm curious what this would have cost in the *great* US health care system that she is talking about. I'm sure the system is great, for those who have NEVER been sick.
Og Siv Jensen, hvis du på død og liv er mer tilhenger av den amerikanske enn den norske modellen: Det går altid et fly!
1:40 is bullshit. The private hospitals are even usually cheaper and better than fully tax payed hospitals, but that is for elective or specialist parts such as the one partly in the city hospital is one of the worlds best on legs and care for them. I had problems with my legs when I was eight and got a full package, we payed what 100 dollars for multiple visits and xrays.
Yes....which reminds me, I need to go organize my sock drawer....
@capitalist4life
She has been to one Bilderberg meeting.
Our prime minister is a Bilderberger, so was his father, his father is still a member of the Trilateral Commission.
Many of our politicians and 'elite' business men/women are also members there or have been.
Most are CEO's of government companies, some are from the private sector.
@blogegog Like the US? Where the poeple in charge are from the biggest companys and from the people.
Shes actually very honest...
It's true with the high direct and indirect taxes. we got about 36-38% income tax (average), 21% vat on everything (average) and then special fees for different stuff,
Denmark, Finland and Denmark ALL have the same problem with surgery waiting lists
@fleskebille I'd agree with you on most of the stuff. Basically, I'd like to see next to no spending on anything but a European-style health care system. Basically guarantee everyone they're not going to die of preventable or treatable disease, protect them from fraud and crime, and leave the rest up to the individual.
@ofarrizzle OK, a few things: Get government completely out of running hospitals etc. Government certification is very hampering too. Let private organizations and individuals deal with rating (internet!). Let people ingest whatever they want to, including heroin etc. If you want to guarantee that everyone gets treatment and at the same time have development, subsidize only those who really can't pay. I doubt the current Norwegian system is sustainable, and i'm sick of being treated as a child.
@xp19375 Well what other very important factors are there?
our welfare states work because of our culture and just because it works for us doesn't necesseraly mean that it would work in the u.s.
@roffelvaffel Why do you compare your health system to that of USA? Try comparing it to Swiss care system instead. Everyone there has health care and it is predominately private - from private basic insurances offered by more then 100 insurers to private hospitals and other infrastructure. The goverment there predscribes basic health system package, makes it obligatory, prohibits insurances rejecting customers and covers costs to those that can't afford it.
@LucidCatnap As opposed to socialist and liberal media outlets that present the voice of dissent an unobstructed and uncriticized voice? Most libertarians are very eager and willing to debate socialists, liberals, and conservatives. Reason has given friendly interviews to those who do not align with libertarianism when it has been an issue of common concern.
oh yes, btw, for a first hand rental contract in Stockholm, you have to wait around 20-30 years (!), just for a simple but central flat. Another one of the examples of slow bureaucracy....
If a poor person in norway needs an operation(not llife threatening) he will get the operation, after a waiting period. If a poor american person needs the same operation, he will wait forever...
So which system has the longest waiting time?
@BillySmooth55 The nazis had social economical political solutions, which led to it being the premier economical power in the world, yet extreme, right-wing conservatice values. Not everything is left and right, capitalism and socialism. You have to differ between values and economical policies.
Notice how although in Switzerland, everyone has health coverage, and yet, unlike the other European countries, do not seem to have the same problem with waiting lists (at least, not to my knowledge; someone please correct me if I'm wrong), and what do you suppose is the reason for this? Well, if you think about it, it may just be the fact that they have a higher number of doctors per capita, and the reason for that? Well, it seems to me that this probably has everything to do with the fact that THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY *PAY* FOR IT! So they actually get health *CARE* rather than just health *"COVERAGE."* HUGE difference.
There's an old saying, you can get it good, fast, or cheap, but you can't have all three.
You can get it good and fast, but it WON'T BE CHEAP.
You can get it good and cheap, but it WON'T BE FAST.
You can get it fast and cheap, but it WON'T BE GOOD.
Amazing how socialists still think that there is some magic way to circumnavigate the natural laws of reason and that little thing called REALITY.
Check the state of hungarian healthcare... utter crap, people only get normal service here if you are rich and can pay extra privately for the doctors.
mm because discussing tax rates and economics with a person who clearly don't know what direct and indirect taxes are is so interesting
It probably wouldn't, but it can still look at some elements of our system tho...
@fleskebille I'd agree with you in principle, but not in practice. Suffice to say, if we did this, a lot of people would never get health care, and they would die as a result. personally, I'd prefer a system where a basic minimum of preventable care is provided free by the state, with elective/non-life-threatening procedures paid out of pocket or by an unregulated insurance agency (free market). This way, you guarantee a minimum while allowing the profit motive for medical advancement.
@bohemianwriter1 It's not about Norway per se it's about left and right.
I live in Quebec /Canada and it's the same problem as Norway.
We have universal health care system since 40 years ... people do not have access to it any longer. People are dying.
People have to pay doctors under the table.
That's what your Obama wants for America...
She seems to sound pro-capitalism. A model like America? Thats ridiculous. I love the way how your country operates and I have been an admirer.
@herkulesafc SD wants to resemble parties like FrP and DF. The truth is that they want a larger government, decrease taxation (they don't seem to understand basic mathematics), and curb immigration by 90%. FrP's roots are in policies such as lower the tax and increasing individual economic freedom, I suspect DF's roots are similar to FrP. SD's roots are very different, they have roots in white power, nationalism, and in Nazi organisations. Comparing SD with FrP is like spitting into FrP's face.
I feel pity for those who have to clean up the mess that she is gonna make if she gets into the government.
These people will fuck up the Norwegian society.
@MMAoracle No, i am very centre, perhaps even center-right.
And the implications of calling frp a progress party completely passes you by. In america a "progressive" is someone usually on the left side of the political spectrum. Just because frp has the word progress in the party name does not make it a progressive party. Most of their political agenda completely hinders progress, and their voters are to a large degree people who want cheaper liqour and racists.
My greatest fear is that this woman would be the next Prime minister of Norway.
Tea-party movement in Norway, well here you go Siv Jensen is their Sarah Pailin
Yes, things aren't all perfect in Norway, but the populistic dreams of Siv Jensen would run this country straight to the ground. The bulk of the people who vote for FRP would be better off in a country like the USA. Although, they would probably come running back if they ever needed healthcare.
I disagree with the current government on many issues, but putting this woman and her kind in power would equate to destroying many of the things that make Norway such a wonderful place.
@gonewiththesun How about ignoring money for a moment, and tell me why I must give up my ability to choose just because someone else says they know what's right for me?
Why do you think the ends justify the means?
Well, you sir don't understand how the norwegian government operates. The average taxes on your income is 40-45%, and thats a reasonable amount. If you want to buy something after that, the prices are sky high because of the 25% VAT. If you decide not to use your money, you have to pay tax on your founds. When you die and have payed all that taxes, your children has to pay 6% taxes to inheritance. it means you have to pay the government to keep things you own. The total is around 75% taxes.
@synne64
U're welcome!
Color me surprised at the lack of specifics she was able to give.
I am disappoint. :(
@ObjectivistAesthetic Because many things you say, sound conflicting.
for example "Quality of life" as it has been measured and u.s. ranks 13th
wich means: Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Australia, Iceland, Italy, Denmark, Spain, Singapore, Finland is ahead of the u.s.
and as i've said before, i haven't witnessed this "american inferriority complex"
i've only heard americans, chanting "we're number one" which is kinda ridiculous even if that held true.
@SubmarinerAndroid it gives you a choice, join then or don't. Does a 75% tax burden for the regular folks sound good to you ? assuming you are American the top 10% of earners pay 70% of your total tax burden, which do you prefer ?
@natemanafter I'm sure we'd have just as many hamburgers and cars. We'd also have more money in our pocket (with no insurance companies bleeding us dry) and generally have less preventable death (45000 a year, by some estimates). They spend their money on health care and schools, we spend ours on bomber planes we don't use and subsidies to inefficient farms.
The right to chose in healthcare always benefits the rich. Welfare health system is an insurance that everybody gets the same treatment. I will gladly pay my tax to keep health regulated by the government and not private companies. Siv Jensen has a catastrofic view of how Norway should change!
@MMAoracle
We should force our politicians to take the Political Compass test.
Go to political compass dot com, take the test and see where you land..
Respect.
and those statistics change all the time...
@ofarrizzle
Oh, please.
Healthier: Culture. Do you think Americans would eat less McDonald's if we had universal healthcare? Drive fewer cars?
Education: Homogenous population with high parental literacy rates
Index: Index is skewed away from a value of economic liberties and toward value of socialism.
Not "progressives" in the general sense, they are liberal-conservative progressives.
And now that she is in office, she can see how fucking wrong she was....
FRP 4 LIFE
@kawaiigardiner but this party really has not. they are still for imigration stop, and the only party that are for increasing spent money, and still lowering taxes. there was recently a thing called "freedom fest" the liberetarian movement in norway, and one of the concerns discussed was how this party has turned away from what it was in the 70s, and now is big gov party. also most of the people voting for it give xenofobia as their main reason.
By the way...
- VAT taxes elsewhere in Europe are higher than 20% (23% in Italy, folks), not 15% like Norway.
- Wage level in the EU remained the same the last 10 years, only rich people increased their own salaries (= INEQUALITY). In Norway it rose by 40%.
- Norway and Nordic countries are in the top of every rankings made from different institutions.
Please WAKE UP, stop complaining and listening to these parties, simply keep, update and improve your system!
@Ressenatior You have, its called Sverigedemokratarne.
@yakyakyak69
Ever heard of the term wage slave? We are all slaves to our need of wages. Unless you are born wealthy, you can only dream about all those nice things as personal freedom.
What personal freedom do you really think you have when your employer dictates your everyday life? You think you have constitutional rights against a corporation that dictates to you what you can and cannot say?
This is the leader of one of the most controversial parties in Norway, the reason for its size is mainly its view on immigration. I am utterly embarrased over her complains on this country that during the last 10 years or so has been ranked one of the best countries in the world when it comes to living standards and state welfare. Our health care is ranked among the best, crime rates, murder rates, unemployment rates and poverty is among the lowest in the world. She reminds me of a spoiled child
@hjulkapseldelux *She isnt supporting the american model and neither is ReasonTV. The Norwegian health care system is a lot better than The American system. What ReasonTV, and Siv Jensen I suppose, wants is a free market heath care system
she says taxes, direct and indirect amount to 75% of your income. I live in Norway, have lived here since 1999. And I can attest with absolute certainty that said statement is so unrealistic that it almost made me dizzy hearing it. She completely fails to point out that the educational system isn't based on the size of your pocket, that if you're disabled, you're cared for with respect and dignity.. not to mention the non-existence of any serious financial crisis. But no, it's still not good huh
når jeg trodde jeg ikke kunne mislike henne mer...
skulle tro ut i fra dette intervjuet at om en skulle få hjerteinfark så måtte en vente i kø til staten bryr seg. greit nok at ikke alt er tip topp. men dette var drøyt.
Conservativism is fine in one sense: refined personal development. Its equal economic claim of rights is harsh as contrary to rights, as refined for workers as choice as populist, but that is negated by more than mere basic natures which naturally level out as moral. It makes no sense for a better off good person to do that, if they have any sense of more than their life, without leaving it up to other people as free and able to defend themselves in the sense of a benefit they might autonomously be defined by, physically. That's what Trump has been keying in on. Good for him and conservatives in the USA. Bad for the very very very bad. And bad for good liberals, who trust and give freely, but who in not do so rightly come under suspicion as to the conservative need to have relations including simpler cost effective rights - and freedom - with others. People should not be able to stew in the empowerment of their personalities as evil (and that only describes level 6), then hone in on a comparative situation claiming random or innocent solidarity. The claimed ignorance in place of innocence regarding injustice is level 7. I recall a world where everyone was that, once; now there is an inconceivable to that fog of sentiments of resentment at any and also counter judgements and corrections of hostility that are even further brought down to the pacifist level 3 of the antichrist, but as that unfathomable partaking in irredeemable unremediable incessant coldness as the creed of sin itself in ways unlike can be believed, where I am from among these impossibly coordinated intents and outcomes of radical allegations of that being your nature, as its focus of demanding its hate to someone higher for the 7's be fulfilled, at a cost so probable to them that they avoid paying for basic defense in place of their own moral coordination in my case as savior, which seems incalculable that that is developing as government by the people. As a moral level people do trust in an innocence and benevolence. Level 5 is a rebel undermining of society, however swamping as its insufferable incessant tactics level 6, in its own rightly assessed quite personal nasty inter-connectivity of ambitions as the pure personal side of attacks. My opinion, of this situation, is that it is impractical, as governance by men, over the issue of homosexuality, as denying level 7 as needing more than a mockery of people's developable sense of rights from conservatives' perspective, and that the wrong people continue to strange level 7 as free and fair in acknowledging least of all a single individual situation of health and mere adherence to their own professed spirit of faith. A kind of massive neurological chemical attack only, on day 8. My opinion on hurt feelings is that some people are slow and that it is like an out of control nightmare that there are worse situations.
Siv Jensen for Prime Minister!
One thing I don't understand is that why sometimes people loves to make themselves to look like an oompa loompa
@fanofrock2000 Vet ikke hvordan det funker for deg, men når jeg mottar min lønn, basert på min avtalte timebetaling, trekkes jeg ikke en krone i arbeidsGIVERavgift. Det gjør derimot arbeisdsGIVEREN min. Hvorfor havner da denne avgiften i din beregning? Fordi du ønsker at det var slikt, for det fremmer din sak? ;-)
1000(lønn) - 36%(skatt) = 640 --> 640 (klokke) - 25%(mva) = 480 kr.
Den totale beskatningen for en vanlig norsk borger vil ligge på rundt 50%. Langt mindre enn 75% eller 80% :-p
@Everett07630
Fact is, that ecomonical policies has got nothing to do with either freedom or democracy. Use Cuba as an example. Or Chile. Or China. Cuba under Batista was a capitalist society. Does that mean that Batista was a humanist with democratic principles, freedom of spoeech and social justice on his agenda? And if so, why did Castro and his band go through with the revolution for then? to continue to serve the rich foreigners at the expence of his poor and suppressed countrymen?
@FlowCell Because of the strong public school system, that she is against now. Mainly because her party is getting money from the richest people in the country. They want to own schools for profit
As soon as she started talking about health care I knew I was never gonna support her
every system has its draw back, but our system is FAR better then the american one
YEA she is in POWER in NORWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@yakyakyak69
Again.. I applaud your humane system that can achieve this. Your "superior" system has 2 million people arrested each year due to your "freedom loving" drug laws. So far, more than 500 000 people have been arrested on Marijuana offenses this year.
You must be proud of having the by far the largest prison population in the world.
Interview both sides of argument. Reasonable people laugh at the Progress Party.
@PKtheFirst
No less neutral than Aftenposten, VG, or any other newspaper with an angle...
@fleskebille
Norway vs US is not socialism vs capitalism, it's one variation of "fascism light" vs another. I think size matters a lot too. Getting rid of the US govt might be a great idea. Was it 7 planks of the communist manifesto implemented in the US?
google: robert higgs fascism
Really? Not everyone is the average? Didn't know. I'm pro lower tax and small government, but I'm also able to see how average income in a country with very little poverty is a reasonable measure for seeing if prices are too high or too low. Other countries around Europe have not only higher gas prices than us compared to average income, but a higher percentage of the price goes to the government in gas taxes. You're obviously wrong, but dogmatism lives on, through the incoherent Progress Party.
Which country you are from originally doesn't matter. Your religion is your private matter. Great that ypu speak Norwegian fluently. The Norwegian definition of an immigrant is a person from another country settling in Norway, or that person's child. I don't know why you think people want you out, but most Norwegians want people here that works and contributes to the society in i positive way.
@roffelvaffel ReasonTV is not supporting the american health care system. And I highly doubt Siv Jensen is either ...