Is the "blackest black" good for painting miniatures? Black 3.0 vs Citadel and Vallejo
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- Watch this before you buy Black 3.0! In this video we compare some of the most popular black acrylic hobby paints with a super cheap option and some new super matte, super black paints.
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Paints tested:
Citadel Abaddon Black
Vallejo Model Color Black
Royal & Langnickel Mars Black
CultureHustle Black 2.0
CultureHustle Black 3.0
#black3 #abaddonblack #vantablack - Jak na to + styl
That finger fondling was an experience i don't think i've ever seen on a miniature painting channel before :D
Midwinter Minis: pushing the boundaries of finger-fondling.
@@MidwinterMinis You should make a series on this. I think there's a huge market in this. ASMR can go hide it self, finger fondling miniatures is the new BLACK ;)
It makes a lot of sense when painting miniatures for gaming and not just display though, doesn't it?
to be honest, it was an experience i wasnt expecting whilst eating my lunch
@@SquidmarMiniatures I don't understand ASMR.
Yes that’s all very well but how do they taste compared to Marmite?
Can't talk. In hospital.
How do they FONDLE compared to Marmite?
Probably better.
Tastes awful but it tastes less awful than marmite
*Cue Chubbyemu music*
MM is a ?? year old man, presenting to the Accident & Emergency with intestinal distress
Could you pinkest pink some noise marines? Think it would suit them significantly well.
Now THERE'S an idea...
@@MidwinterMinis me and my friend are thinking of painting plasma guns with LIT, so thank you, Guy! We're trying out a new hobby, and it's entirely your fault.
I bought the Classic Noise Marine just for that reason, there is just one problem. Pinkest Pink, Bluest Blue, Greenest Green, Yellowest Yellow, as well as LIT and PINKtm are all pigments so you have to makes sure you get a really clean and smooth mix of the paint or you will get an effect similar to painting with Typhus Corrosion. Also you must mix them with water before mixing them with anything else as the pigment will not mix in Lamia Medium directly I tried.
Oh and for using LIT for plasma guns, I recommend it entirely. LIT is so strong that I used it for power conduits on my Ork Stompa and then painted over it with the Hexwraith paints and it glows through it no problem. If you get your hands on a UV flashlight and "charge" LIT with it they will glow in a well luminated room.
@@nevzilla hey man, thanks for the advice! Got myself some superbase to use with it, but looks like I'll have to be super careful with the quantities. Literally first time I've painted anything, so I think it's going to be a lot of learning.
@@HyperionHelstrand I didn't use the use super base when I did it, mostly because you need to mix the pigment with water first and then mix the base into it. Which would mean thinning it even more, give one a try without it first and see if you like it.
I've used Black 2.0 on some custom terrain. It made the uneven texture of a "bottomless hole" less visible, as I wanted.
My favourite black for miniature painting isn't a black at all- vallejo black gray. Dark enough to register as black when there are brighter colours next to it but you get a very subtle shading effect if you put black wash over it.
Yeah, tyre grey is a popular one as well for the same reason :)
"..a full minute of totally inappropriate touchy-feely action..."
Thanks, now there is tea all over my computer screen...
Fantastic video, and I love the idea of using specialty paints for stand out effects. Definitely going to keep that in mind.
Nice! Sorry about your screen ;)
So ,uh, looks like I can make a whole army of xenomorphs by just chucking them into a bucket of abbadon black
Pretty much! Haha
I was on the verge of buying blk 3.0 to use on miniatures and this is _exactly_ the type of video I was hoping for. Instant subscribe.
"Rub fatigue..." who hasn't been there eh? interesting video all the same :)
Just like Warhammer itself, it's a pubescent rite of passage.
@@MidwinterMinis shamefully accurate haha
I would be interested in seeing how the Black 2/3 handle through an airbrush, and also how the other paints they make work for mini painting, especially their luminous paints.
Me too! Maybe in a future video ;)
I didn't have a good time with Black 2 in the airbrush. I think I ended up using more than 50% thinner by volume, and it still clogged the brush quite frequently. About 7 coats got me a result that was a bit darker than in the video with about the same amount of lost detail.
Wait, they made a Black 2?
Damn now I'll be lost during Black 3
Haha, so many sequels. I reckon Black 4 will just make you blind.
@@MidwinterMinis Black 4: Stygian Boogaloo.
I haven't seen 3, but people tell me it gets really dark...
I hear Justin Trudeau is in this one.
"I see a ter-ma-gant, I want to paint it black...
No grey shame anymore I want them to turn black..."
10/10, would buy that record
And Guardsmen turn their lasguns and quickly fire ‘way!
Like a newborn ork nob it just happens everyday!
I see a line of tanks and they're all painted black, no more harlequins they must all be painted back
I no longer watch Utube. The comments are whey more fun LMAO.
i like how your videos are calm and to the point, none of this screaming and yelling for "comedy" like other youtubers
I can't stand show-offs, haha. Keep calm and make the god-damned video ;)
Would be cool to see these paints through an airbrush and given the same tests just to see if the results change
Yeah! Maybe for a future video :)
Came to the comments just for this. I've thought about buying Black 2.0 before (hadn't even heard of 3.0), but "How does it shoot out of an airbrush?" is a question that needs answering first... Wouldn't mind seeing if there's any noticeable difference if you use it to make a homemade wash too.
@@JCPRuckus The thing to be careful with is the pigment ingredient. The reason the models were so clogged and chalky was do to whatever the pigment used to get such a dark black and there is a good chance that crap is toxic, meaning it's probably not worth the risk to atomize. Also my guess is it would clog the crap out of your brush.
@@marcellogenovese199 - Yes, that is why I want someone who already owns the product to try, rather than to buy the product myself and try. Because it might not work. And they, unlike me, are already out the money.
As far as atomizing it... There's plenty of toxic pigments in your paints already. You should already be wearing a respirator when airbrushing both for this reason, and just because breathing in fine particles of anything is bad whether it's toxic or not.
@@JCPRuckus Actually most mini paint is none toxic. That said, you are correct in that PPE should always be worn, but I'd still rather not flood a room in my home with toxic dust if you know what I mean.
Nice video some cool results. Love how I used to be slated back in the day for undercoating in black and now it’s totally acceptable
I really like these "materials science" videos. Have you considered doing one on the various mediums out there, such as Lahmian Medium, Vallejo's glazing medium, etc? I'd personally really like to know how much of it is just branding, and how much of it makes an actual difference when mixing it in with paints.
A great idea! I'd love to do something like that at some point.
How about whitest white?
This is the best possible way to make this video. 10/10!
Thank you! :)
I have black 2.0 (bought it long before 3.0 was released), and while it is not perfect for minies due to texture it has, I find that it works amazing for terrain under metallic drybrushing. The mattness adds that little extra touch of contrast with shiny metallics. Also, it smells very nice.
Y'know what, neither of my CH Blacks smell of anything! Maybe I got a dud ;)
in depth! only thing hobby orientated I have thought to use my black 3.0 for is to paint inside of large cannon barrels and monstrous open maws!
That's a cool idea! Thanks :)
Ayy, theres my Name. Connor here! Glad to be of support! And a very interesting video.
Woo! Thank Connor! :D You're awesome
Great video, super thorough
Thanks for this video! I’m gonna make a black 3.0 ravenguard army and this is a super helpful video for that!
IIRC, Vantablack is unusable for models anyways: it functions by coating the surface with a kind of nano-carbon "fuzz" that almost completely traps incoming light. It rubs off immediately on contact, which is why they never touch the painted object itself. It's intended to coat the inside of telescopes or similarly protected light-sensitive equipment, not for common use.
Thx for this color study man. Nice work.
Glad you found it useful :)
I had this thought randomly thanks for the video
This is FKing good stuff. I was taking a break from gardening and thinking about what I was going to paint next for the new Warhammer 40k. Saw this and started listening.
Thanks for the info during SUmmer 2020 quarantine.
Really informative and good review parameters.
I want to see you paint some models using the brand of artist paint that the mars black came in.
Also, I think you should also use a homebrew lamian medium (matte medium diluted with water) as your thinner and compare that to say citadel and velejo.
PLEASE 😀
Nice ideas! I think that's got some potential for a future video :)
It's not a comparison, but if you look up Alternative Artist on CZcams, she paints her minis using Reeves acrylic tube paints (which are super cheap). She's a very talented painter, and makes you realize that $$$ supplies are not as important as talent and technique... Just like Midwinter Minis!
@@KrisTomich - Absolutely... Perfect example in this video. Black 2.0 and 3.0 are luxury hobby/work supplies (for artists) and cost about 1/3 what the Citadel paint does... Lol... Plus, if it needs to be thinned more and still gets good coverage, that means it actually costs even less the more water you add.
Love the music, as always
Thank you Wilson!
Good stuff. Very informative.
Thanks very much :)
Cheap acrylic can work surprisingly well! My local game store was completely out of black paint during the lockdown, so I picked up some cheap ($2 for 75ml) black acrylic at an art store and I was pretty impressed with its performance. Nice to know it's essentially indistinguishable from the Citadel stuff
Good test, I constantly tell people Black has a myriad of tone and saturation, when they ask for black!
Have you ever tried Arteza paints, I'm sure if you contact them they will send you a sample of their products. They do both soft and heavy body acrylics and are very reasonable.
Yeah, I've heard from them actually, maybe I'll take them up on their offer ;)
Awesome stuff! I've never really liked the odd gloss finish Abadon Black has, I tend to paint dark grey & wash with nuln oil to get black armour instead of using Abadon Black.
Thanks for making this video
Nice idea! Yeah, definitely starting with grey and darkening it down is a great technique :)
Love the idea of picking out certain details that aren't likely to be handled anyway with Black 3.0. Considering painting the blank face shield of my Warcry Khainite Shadowstalkers Shroud Queen that way. Makes more sense to me thematically than the (admittedly cool looking) glowing turquoise.
Thx for this. I've really wondered about Black 2.0 and 3.0.
... and now you know! :)
Cool video, thank you. My go-to is Thamar Black for small areas and my craft store Delta Ceramcoat pumped up with some art store black ink. Cheap, and works just fine.
Thank you so much for this! My friend bought me some Black 3.0 for my birthday, and I wondered how it would handle being put on miniatures.
The fact that you did a video on Culture Hustle makes you the coolest
Haha, who paid you to say that? ;)
My art college soul paid me in feel good pretentious points
Great video!
Cheers :)
Good, now the idea of black deepstriking Carnifexes has been implanted into my brain. Wish me a good sleep, cause now i'm gonna need it.
Haha, that sounds like the best dream to be honest
Thank you so much! I'm prepping to paint my first minis and having an especially tough time trying to decide which brand will work best for me for black
i was just working on my first deathwatch marine yesterday, and since i had Vallejos Black it was what i used. it's fine for stuff like armour joints and rifle furniture, which i quite like to see as matte, but for space marine armour, a semigloss like Abaddon Black is better at being readable, where the slightly greyish black of Vallejos falls short
Yeah, gloss blacks look really nice on metal panels! It's a shame there's such a taboo about just leaving things that colour instead of highlighting them manually.
Love my vallejo black. Very black, moderate finish, and still able to see details
I just watched a man grope termagants...
... and you loved every second.
I'm calling the Inquisition
@@MidwinterMinis We know Draco did.
2:45 "The cheap Mars Black needed the most thinning"
As a regular user of that paint set (not for minis), I can tell you I was not the least bit surprised to hear this. Those are some chonky bois.
They should rename it "Thicc Black"
came bbelieving by the title i thought its going to be some cantablack magic on miniatures, stayed for the good narration.
I actually like the look of black 3 after being rubbed. Looks like really cool highlights.
Thanks for this! Now I'll go with Vallejo, I love that matte when compared to the GW paints.
I rarely give out likes, but I do like when people paint with stuff from outside dedicated miniature ranges (read: stuff that's reasonably priced). So here's your "Like"!
Thanks very much John! I'll treasure it ;)
Yep. Got bombarded with the same adds. And I'm still interested in the black 3.0. I think a thinner build up of layers might well suit this quite well. Hmmmmm, interesting.
Indeed! I think it deserves a bit more experimentation :)
Great insight! I'd love to see you do the same thing with white - considering how many people have issues with keeping whites thin and smooth.
Interesting! I suppose I have to do it, just for the balance ;)
I like your idea of using the black 3.0 as an effect paint on special surfaces. Flames, things that traditionally glow, magical/psyker effects, etc. I am going to experiment using at as a reverse highlight on power weapons.
I've just been looking into these the last couple of days. I was thinking of thinning out and airbrushing black 3.0 onto some Mandrakes.
More of this music, love it!
Haha, thanks Ben, a little more upbeat than usual eh?
Midwinter Minis yeah, a nice change is good every once in a while
I love this music!
Thanks so much mate! :)
Thank you!
Do the pinkest pink next!
The pinkest Emperor's Children possible? ;)
This was an awesome vid! I'd really like more of this type of content.
Regarding black 2 and 3 feeling like coal, well, that's probably because it is ^^
Oh, for next video, maybe test how a new layer adheres to the black layer? I can imagine the cheap black being more difficult to paint over compared to abbadon
I think CultureHustle didn't want to just call it "liquid coal" because they'd have been worried the military industrial complex would get involved ;)
id love an airbrush version of this
To be fair they do state that the Black 3.0 and Black 2.0 should dry overnight (ie 8 hours) before coating again or painting over the top of it so perhaps after a full day of drying they are more durable.
just found thi svideo and wow :O what a timing, im just about to start a Black Templards army and cant decided between Vallejo and the 2.0, really like the matt charchoaly look of both
I saw a Twitch streamer (Steep_T) paint a plinth for a model with Black 3.0 and that seemed like a pretty good use.
I was thinking about using it for some Necron built obelisk/pylon terrain. I think that in a colorful alien jungle board having an extremely dark, hard edged shape might look pretty striking.
Nice idea! Also, using it for terrain would be pretty awesome, but you'd have to watch out for handling it especially on the edges.
@@MidwinterMinis True. It would probably work for garagehammer where I could grab it buy the base, but it probably wouldn't hold up for long at a club or store.
This was perfect as I am looking at using Black 3.0 for Raven Guard, no highlights or washes, just BLACK!. Two reasons one it could look really cool and two it should be really quick ;) Not seen anyone use Black 3.0 or 2.0 through an airbrush, thinking that may help the detail clogging if its possible. Great video :)
Interesting video 👌🏻
Cheers Angel! Love your videos :)
Midwinter Minis thanks 🙏🏻
I'd love to see the same test with a more bias approach. Using each paint with their ideal thinning agents and varnishes.
Fun vid! Any chance you could compare the rest of that cheap acrylic paint set to their more usual citadel / valejo / army painter equivalents in a future video?
Thank you for this. I was thinking about getting black 3.0 but now I’m not to sure
I'd be very interested to see if black 3 thinned and airbrushed retained that level of black. I'd also be very interested in using it as a recess colour for "black" power armour that's painted with very dark greys or blues.
Yeah! Maybe basecoat with Vallejo, no highlights, and just panel line with Black 3.0 could look pretty crazy.
New background tune? Digging it!
Thank you! :)
I asked my friend to paint up an Arachnarock spider for me using black 2.0. It worked really well for that. The texture made the spider look almost furry.
Fuzzy spider paint 2.0 would probably have sold better ;)
no idea how i ended up here but watched every second of it
I would totally use it to paint the rims on my bases.
Great vid. Be interesting to see what each looked like with the same matt or satin varnish over the mini. I wonder if the differences would be so obvious by then?
Good idea, I think it would really bump up their shine, even if you used a matte varnish.
Neat. Love this
Thanks matey :)
I like the glossy one for that Xenomorph aliens look.
Considering the issues with clogging and detail loss, I'd love to see this tested with thin, airbrushed coats. I think multiple thin coats, airbrushed on, would be the perfect way to use Black 2.0, 3.0 or musou black. In fact, this makes me want to start a Black Templars army just to use this as their main colour.
I’ve gotta get some black 3.0 for my deathwatch, and maybe some black 2.0 for edge highlighting
I'm thinking of using the black 3.0 for the base rims, to make the top terrain really pop
I really enjoy the music that plays at the end credits (and most of the video) and it has a really catchy theme to it. I want to listen to it strait, but I can't find it among your other songs that you released. What song is it called?
Thanks! I was looking at getting some for my base rims and now I'm glad I didn't
Too delicate for that I think!
I can't think of the name of the channel right now, but there's a CZcamsr who does Hot Wheels restoration/customization. He painted a car with Black 2.0, ultimately didn't like the way it looked (like a featureless silhouette) and wound up gloss varnishing it. Even with the reflectivity of the varnish, it still had a certain "that's not just regular black paint" look to it... Point being, even a matte or probably even ultra-matte artist's varnish will likely add some reflectivity (that texture described in the video is part of what makes it so black and the varnish will change that), but they should protect it while still giving you most of the effect.
So the Vallejo Black as an airbrush paint you will find it has poor adhesion because of the thinning. To counter this you need to use a paint additive to break the surface tension of the paint, such as: 'Wetting Agent' by Golden. This prevents the paint from rolling up.
Any paint applied by airbrush will always appear more matte. This is because application by airbrush is essentially a kind of pointilism that creates a micro surface texture. So any black applied by airbrush will appear more matte and if dark enough appear to absorb light without returning it.
Black 2.0 and 3.0 might actually be coming off more on handling simply because the micro surface texture they end up with has a higher degree of friction when handled. Though unfortunately running something like AK interactives: ultra matte varnish over all of these models while it may give the desired result with the 2 intended for modelling and the cheaper option. It might actually make Black 2.0 and 3.0 gimmick for achieving its surface texture function less well. So the probably best application for the black 3.0 would be into gun barrels that will never be touched, but in which you want to create the illusion of a dark depth.
All of this is probably moot however, since degrees of blackness is almost irrelevent to the human eye. Since our sight is based on contrast you can make any deep grey and bright grey look like black and white when they are beside each other. If you want to learn more look up: 'Eigengrau' in your search engine of choice.
Wow, what a thorough comment! Thank you. I totally agree, but just FYI, I didn't use the "Air" version of the Vallejo black, that was just the bottle I grabbed by mistake, haha.
I could see this being useful mostly for filling drilled out gun barrels, helmet visors and such.. maybe..
Awesome video, I might op for cheap black acrylic next time. Could you do one for white.
I have found that Vallejo primer needs at least 24 hours to cure before painting on. Once fully cured, it doesnt rub off/chip as easily.
I liked how you compared blacks. Now with those just as a base coat how would they react to standard painting and highlights?
3.0 is a fun product but terrible for models! Oh and free Vanta Black, paint for all not for the one.
Yeah, I think that's probably fair!
I would love to see the results of spraying an ultra white zenith on each of those. I could see some really cool effects from just obliterating all details and lights from the underside of a tyrant contrasted with a super shine on the topside.
Fun fact Stuart semple made these black paints as a response to anish kapoor and even got people to sign a waiver stating that they were not Anniston and that they wouldn’t share it with him when the first one released.
I strictly use the mars black. it works just fine and looks even better in person.
I have been using Black 2.0 for about 2 years though I haven't painted much in that time with it only about 40-60 marines. That being said I personally have enjoyed working with it but like the video it did rub off with the brush when the brush is too stiff. I contacted Culture Hustle about the best way to use it and the reply I received was Black 2.0 ( and probably 3.0) worked best without using a primer. That being said if you are like me and don't have the control to paint deep recesses without getting paint in places you don't want Black 2.0 makes for great shadows.
Yeah, I think either paint would be great for making special effects on models, especially where they won't be touched.
I've tried both abaddon black and my gf has a set of Royal & Langnickel paints so I tried the mars black from that. The biggest difference is how well they apply to unprimed surface - you can use abaddon black as a primer and a base coat at the same time, mars black just pools up - you HAVE to prime it.
I almost bought the super black (3.0) to try this out myself, but I don’t get paid to make videos so I decided not to. Lol great video idea!
5:54 ‘it suffered a little bit from rub fatigue’ - yep, we’ve all been there :P
Chaos black-Matt
Abbadon- Gloss.
Got it.
In a nutshell!
I've messed around quite a bit with Black 3.0, and it is a really fantastic paint. However, for miniatures use it needs to be thinned quite a bit more than just two coats, and I'd suggest doing the first two thinning with a bit of flow improver. It's a chalky pigment, and the flow improver helps. Let it dry overnight after that, then put on the final coats with only water thinning. It will be very, very black, and not lose detail.
However, if you try and varnish it, bad things happen (This is noted on their website, to their credit).
So what's to be done? Well, it's a bit mundane, however it's now, hands-down, no-questions-asked, my favorite thing to paint the rim of bases. How boring, you may say, but it does that job just so, so well. It's fantastic. It looks like the base is suspended on top of some kind of void. Since I usually grab my minis by the top to move them, wear and tear is minimized, and worst case, maybe you have to touch up a bit.
I'd also suggest drybrushing the rim-edge of the base such that there's a slight, circular highlight before it hits the void. This frames and contains the model being presented on the base.
Cool idea! I'll have to give that a go. I like the idea of things floating on a void :)
I pay the premium for GW paints because the names they apply to their colors *inspire* me!
Haha, SO INSPIRED!
would black 3 work as a base for a dark sabre like blade or for filling in eye sockets that have looked into the abyss too much.
just some ideas for any future models
Two comments, here:
1) I'd love to see a followup video covering the results of airbrushing them (if you airbrush Black 3.0 does that negate the problems with it filling in details?), and also maybe the effects of acrylic matte varnish over all of them. I've heard tell that you can't effectively varnish the CultureHustle blacks because it ruins the finish they use to achieve their effect, but even so, if it turns out that Black 3.0 varnished matte looks darker than Vallejo Black varnished matte, that'd be worth knowing, wouldn't it? And it'd likewise be worth knowing if varnishing the CultureHustle paints makes them look lighter than the others, or if it just negates any difference at all.
2) Your finger-fondling Black 2.0 appears to have produced a fascinating subtractive edge highlight that honestly looks pretty good as a substitute for conventional edge highlighting. Weird.
Definitely! I'm going to try out airbrushing them at some point... and yes, that accidental edge-removal on Black 2 looks pretty good eh? If you painted a very vibrant but robust colour underneath, like pink or something, it might look really good!
A further question, have you ever tried Badger's Stynylrez primers?
I tried my termagants with Black 2.0 as well!
Abaddon Black one it in the end. Kinda like this vid.
Gloss blacks just look so... sexy, right? Like they're wearing PVC or something, haha
Midwinter Minis haha! I dunno about all that. But a good Black is always the best place to start for mini-painting.