DAC Attack - Denafrips Ares 2 vs Schiit Bifrost 2 vs Topping D90se
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
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Denafrips Ares 2 bit.ly/3Av6Kwc
Topping D90se bit.ly/3jJxWkQ
Schiit Bifrost 2 bit.ly/3ynMhaV
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Denafrips Ares 2 www.denafrips....
Anyone that is checking out the Denafrips and are saying that it’s over 1k instead of $763 you are looking at The price in Singapore dollars. Upper right hand corner there is a box. Switch that box to your currency.
About $764 in US dollars today - 7/5/2021. It fluctuates a little each day. I got a newsletter from Vinshine in June saying that the prices were going to go up, but they haven’t as of yet.
Maybe I am more senile than the guy sitting in the White House but on AliExpress the price is US $832.50 and US $126.77 for shipping, which totals US $959.27 and, on Ebay, US $1,175.00 with free shipping from Hong Kong and, to me, those are in US dollars. There is no price listed on Amazon because of "currently unavailable".
@@francescotenti193 Use the link that is in the description. It goes to their website. Click buy now and then change the currency.
@@cheapaudioman I finally found that price and with free shipping and no tax. Thank you!
@@francescotenti193 Aliexpress and Ebay are gray market sellers. Be careful. No warranty or guarantee of authenticity.
I received my Bifrost 2 last week and spent the weekend comparing it with my Denafrips Ares 2 and SMSL M400.
The biggest discovery I made was that I prefer the Ares 2 in NOS mode by far. When I first switched from the Ares 2 in OS / Slow Filter mode to the SMSL M400, both my wife and I laughed out loud at how much better the M400 was at quick deep sub bass, depth, and instrument separation. It was not even close. The only thing that the Aris had over the M400 in OS mode was midrange. Voices just sound fantastic on the Ares 2.
Then came the Bifrost 2 which had a slightly narrower sound stage than both of the other DACs, but had more detail than the Ares 2 and nearly matched it’s full body midrange.
At this point, I was just about to put the Denafrips Ares 2 in the box to sell it. But I decided to try again using NOS mode. I AM SO GLAD I DID! The layers and depth became the best out of the bunch. Lead vocals and background vocals were placed much better in the 3D space which created a sound stage that was nuanced. The verticality of the soundstage crated this sense of being in a venue vs being in a studio.
OS mode came off as a R2R DAC trying to do a decent Delta Sigma impression. It created slightly more width but destroyed the depth and nuance of the soundstage while killing the characteristics of what makes the Aris 2 great IMO.
That being said, all of these DACs are fantastic. The SMSL M400 has a big, detailed soundstage and the best bass reproduction out of the bunch. The midrange is good, but after hearing the Aris 2 and Bifrost 2, the M400’s midrange sounds thinner and less full bodied. If all I listened to was modern hip hop, I would easily choose the M400. It truly shines in modern music.
The Bifrost 2 is a great DAC that is both detailed and full bodied. High frequencies are detailed but have weight to them that the M400 lacked. Unfortunately the Bifrost 2 just lacked the nuanced sound stage of the Aris 2 and I still prefer the sub-bass of the M400. I will say that having some good characteristics of both the Aris 2 and the M400 makes this a compelling DAC.
Denafrips in NOS mode lacked the bass speed and resolution of the M400 or Bifrost 2, but that does not mean that the Aris 2 lacked bass speed or resolution. It just means that the others were slightly better in that regard. Where the Denafrips shines is in it’s midrange and nuanced soundstage depth. This creates a deep connection with the music in a way that I appreciated above all else.
These evaluations were done on a single ended chain using Mogami interconnects, a Outlaw Amp connected to a Marantz SR7013 receiver, using Bowers and Wilkins 705 S2 speakers. Volumio raspberry pi was the source connected through USB.
I also compared the DACs using a balanced headphone stack made up of a Topping A90 amp, Hifiman Arya and beyerdynamic T1 headphones. Long story short, the tables were turned! Bifrost 2 paired with the topping A90 made for a crazy good headphone experience! The soundstage was now one of the biggest, and although the M400 still had the best slam, the Bifrost was better in everything else followed by the M400. The Ares 2 could not compete with the other DACs when it came to creating the slam and detail that the planer magnetic headphones are known for.
Anyway, this is not a review, just my experience so far. I am tempted to try the Topping D90SE to see if it can compete with the Bifrost on Toppings’s own A90 amp. 😁
Wow, great summary of your experience with a lot of very nice equipment. Definitely helpful to me, thanks.
Great writeup - very helpful, thx! I have the Ares 2 and the SMSL M400, and yes - I very much prefer the Ares 2 over the SMSL M400. The only other DAC I own which I like more than either one of the two is the Audio GD S19.
@@decoryder SMSL M400 is fantastic! Speakers, amps, and balanced / single ended connection will determine which of these DACs pair better.
Example, with my McIntosh amp, I prefer the M400 with my Focal 1037be speakers. Where I prefer the Bifrost in my headphone chain. There really is no ‘best’. If I would have only heard the Denafrips on my headphone chain I would have thought it was a bad DAC. But in my Bowers and Wilkins chain, the Denafrips Ares 2 is my preferred DAC.
@@CriPPleR_HD Very true, it's all about synergy!
Thank you
I can't understand for the life of me why anyone clicks the "don't like" button on any of this guys reviews! Even if for some reason you don't agree he's entertaining as hell!
Thanks, Mike. Believe me, my friend. Not everyone is a fan of the cheap audio man
@@cheapaudioman Trolls
@@cheapaudioman their loss!
Based on previous reviews and on what most seem to hear/believe about these units:
Ares 2: most natural to life sounding, softer, truncated highs and a bit less detail vs the DS implementations but has the most 3d-like soundstage. Instruments in space are well placed but a bit less resolved. Soundstage is supposedly deeper and wider than the others while giving up some detail and resolution.
Bitfrost 2: more DS like sounding while having some of that 3-D like quality of the Ares 2. A blend of the two implementations.
Topping d90/D90se: Most analytical sounding with the most detail, less natural than either the two above, more of a 2D soundstage with less width too, with sounds pushed more forward. Differences in low level detail sound louder and also pushed forward lending to a more 2-D SS.
I am looking at the Topping D70s as a compromise of all three and at a lower price. It seemingly has decent single ended output given its' 2.5v out. A decent enough pre section for powered speakers or a standalone amp. The d90se offers 2.1/2.6 v; Bitfrost 2and ares 2 are either 2/2.1v. Adding a good preamp would negate any differences in voltage output.
If you have powered speakers or a standalone amp, you absolutely must have a pre amp id using the ares 2 or the Bitfrost 2.
The Bitfrost doesn't do MQA or DSD. The Ares 2 doesn't do MQA. No loss there for many.
The D90 does MQA on even optical and coax should you use these from a source while streaming or be so inclined to purchase MQA discs which are coming out now.
With Randy saying, and from a colder start no less that the ares 2 sounds more detailed, that is surprising. Could also be perceived as having more detail if the highs that he does hear have more body. I think the D90se and Bitfrost 2 may actually extend a bit more into the higher frequencies for those who have the hearing abilities to hear it while the Ares 2 may add more body to those highs.
Too many concerts can affect hearing. Mine drop off fast after 13K Hz. So I may perceive it that way too.
For those of you wanting to get more info, look at Passion for Sound videos as well as Midfi Guy. It will be interesting to hear Randy's assessments.
For me it came down to the Bitfrost and the Topping D70s. 5 yr warranty vs 2 year (APOS). Pre vs no pre. SE out performance. Stage, separation, etc., etc. Price. Something good for both music and movies.
Funny thing is, the Modius isn't too far off in performance from these units and it's $200. So to get a noticeable but small increase in all areas of performance requires spending 3 to 4 times as much.
If you want to stay cheap audiophile, consider the Modius (more like the D90) or the Modi MB (for a touch of the R2R) for anything under $300. If you need to squeeze a bit more performance, then stay tuned.
Did you listen to any of these or is this all imagination?
@@myu4039 D70s, D50s, among others. Trying to figure out real performance from BS given all the reviews. That's all I can do without trying out for myself every single dac I may be interested in out there. What I stated were the impressions most seem to have with these dacs.
One problematic thing which seems to pop up with alot of people's views is that DS dacs sound the same to them. I notice a few differences mostly for example that the D70s didn't grate on me. So I'm trying to figure out if maybe an Ares or Bitfrost may be an option given that thing that they do.
So I query, challenge, ask...to see if I get something useful to add to my decision making process.
As to imagination...many of us seem to like these reviews feeding our own imagination.
Anything useful you can add?
I have the Modius, and the Ares 2, and using single-ended RCA output with the Modius I have a VERY hard time hearing any difference compared to the Ares 2 - they sound very, very similar - I keep telling people if you want 90% of what the Denafrips offers but don't want to spend the money, get the Modius and run it using RCA outputs.
@@decoryder Thanks. That's helpful. If I don't want to spend the money, definitely the Modius is a nice choice.
@@nc3419 The Modius really benefits - and I mean really benefits - from a better power supply. Since it uses a micro USB 5V input, running it from a better lithium powerpack (costs 20-50 bucks) or a dedicated linear power supply makes a huge difference; imaging, resolution and soundstage really benefit when you do that.
This was one of the best audio reviews I've ever seen. Honestly. I've been waiting for someone to do exactly this which is pick out details and provide the time signatures in the song where you heard differences. It was to the point as well and you didn't ramble on. Well done.
I own both the Bifrost and the Ares 2 but just getting acquainted with the Ares. Best analogy is the Ares is like a good to very good turntable which allows long listening sessions. Things sound slowed down a bit and there can be syncing errors when using video optical connections with the Ares 2. The Bifrost has cleaner bass that is taught with images that are sharply defined compared to the Ares. The Bifrost may be best used with video when seeking the most in realism, everything sounds clean, open and fast...may be too forward to some. For music listening only I would lean toward the Ares. Cheers!
The ares 2 has a really big buffer, iirc 200-400ms. This is to help mitigate jitter but does make completely inappropriate for movies/games. It also does some reclocking which means if you have a really jittery source it'll fix that but if you have an excellent source you'll be stuck with only the good jitter performance of the dac. I haven't personally listened to any of these, this is based on measurements from trusted sources.
@@daniwalmsley611to be honest that’s pathetic for the money. Why can’t I have the sound without having a disadvantage. Total BS
@@mikechivy there is no such thing as a flawless dac, literally no amount of money will be able to buy you one. Denefrips focused on making the best DAC they could for music and nothing else. It's not BS it's just nky for you (or me either) but plenty of people of sound setups that are just audio only and for them this DAC is amazing
It's trying to be a master of one instead of a jack of all trades
@@daniwalmsley611 I hear you. I’m mainly complaining because I’m in the market for a $1,000 DAC, and every video i find of the best recommendations has someone shitting on the DAC. Like damn. I wish there was a single $1000 DAC that was kind of the stand out. I’ve been using the integrated Sabre dac in my amp for 7 years now. I imagine a lot of dacs are better, but I want one I can have for another 7. My vinyl front is crazy good so I want something comparable.
I got a Modius a few days ago... I was thinking about sending it back to Schiit and picking up the Denafrips... but after listening to the Modius, I decided to keep it. Sounds great and is a very full sounding.
It is a mistake to test only on out of the box settings. The Topping has more options and that is a big advantage, however the DAC quality does vary depending on what is enabled or not. So to fairly test you need to turn off Bluetooth, output XLR only and put it in DAC only mode. I do not have this model, but do have the D70S MQA and the difference is noticeable. Other reviewers are saying this too. You cannot disregard the higher preamp output on the Topping either, it too makes a difference.
I am a Bifrost owner and got the new $300 Bifrost 2/64 card and firmware update and have noticed a definite improvement in sound so I'd be interested in seeing a comparison with these again. I've never heard the Denafrips but everyone seems to rate it very highly!
I have both the bifrost 2/64 and the ares ii and between the two I really enjoy the 2/64 more. It's more dynamic and feels more airy. Mind you I'm using the Burson soloist 3x. However, the ares ii and the soloist 3x with the Arya stealth was quite a fantastic experience!!
Headphones I heard on the 2/64 and 3x were: arya s, lcdx, hifiman he1 v2, and 109 pros.
Mind you, I really wanted the ares ii to top the 2/64 and it didn't with that set up. However, the ares ii sounds awesome with my stax set up.
Love the Ares II. It gave my system new life when fully broken in. Their Pontus II is amazing, though a pretty big jump in price.
I currently run mainly the bifrost 2 in my system and originally it went up against a much more expensive MSB DAC. The MSB had more air, more top end detail but over time the bifrost won for me due to its fullness and buttery easy to listen sound. I am still planning on trying the ares 2 though. Great video Randy! Thanks.
This is SUCH a great channel! Totally without BS. Very amusing and informative. To put things into perspective, my system is pushing $70k and yet things are totally relevant here. Well done, keep going please!
My system is $250k and I couldn’t agree more.
Denafrips Ares II here, now looking to upgrade to the Pontus II... Non analytical, non digital and does not create listener fatigue, very old school analog, tube or vinyl sound and I love it. The Delta Sigma DACs are to harsh to my ears, I do not need to hear the janitor down the hall from the recording studio cursing the stopped up toilet he has been tasked to fix. ;-)
Great Review / Comparison!!! 👍👍👍 Looking forward to future Dac Attacks!
You’re going to have to raise your budget a little because inflation of electronics parts & production is very real - what was once $600 is now about $800 to $900.
I tried to replace a failing graphics card in one of my workstations the other day... Oof... First time in my life I've ever considered buying a new, prebuilt system as reasonable.
They should just start using wood
@@cheapaudioman 🤣
I feel like new mid range equipment is all so capable these days, that intangible stuff is where the magic happens and a piece of equipment either really speaks to me, or it just checks the boxes moves on.
I just got a Bifrost 2 and it' spectacular when driven by a MacMini via USB. MacMinis are known to make good music servers because of very low noise USB. I've been into audio for 50 years. This is the best bit of kit I've bought. Impressed enough to order a Vidar amp.
Excellent comparison. Clear breakdown of what counts to me. Good material to watch with my coffee. I almost forgot to get a cup before you reminded me. Thanks!
You're a total nut. I had to subscribe immediately after finding your first video.
Just discovered him, he's great!
Listening through speakers and in "just enjoying the music mode", I could live happily with either the Ares II or the D90 (AK DAC chip). In critical Listening mode, A B'ing back and forth the Ares sound has a little more meat on the bones and the D90 has a bit more resolution. But, here again i enjoy them both. In this price range, IMO, most DACs sound very good compared to older DACs and less expensive DACs. I have to listen very closely and A/B back and forth to describe the differences. I understand that people want to know which is definitely the best. However, the best is best for you, which is greatly effected by system synergy, your room, and/or your headphones. Enjoy the music 🎶
Very true.
And a cowbell sounds better on the Ares ll. How about a trumpet and a banjo !.
Interesting thoughts. Pretty much everyone else says they fins the Denafrips warmer and less resolving.
And the man in black, said "DAC attack!" and it turned into a ballroom blitz.
This is a most excellent review. Right to the point. Concise. Relevant. Great job.
Good review man, I really love this channel and what you’ve achieved in a short space of time. You come across competent and honest but also super watchable and warm👌 It’s probably just worth remembering here that the topping gives more versatility and options to change and tweak the sound than the other two… so I guess it depends on the sort of person you are. If you’re happy to experiment (or enjoy it as may do) you might prefer the topping… maybe if you just want an out of the box experience then the Ares 2. I’m currently trying to make my mind up what’s more important to me. Keep up the great work dude 👍
Another solid video! I really enjoy your content and style. The setup you choose is focused on a very specific use case (PC USB into DAC). I don't see this configuration used all that often in the $700+ DAC category. At this level of DAC performance the entire signal chain is starting to be exposed. I wonder how much of the differences you heard (or lack of differences) was due to variation in USB performance of each DAC? Or limited by amplifier performance? An unresolving amp could easily choke this comparison. That said, you can't cross compare every configuration and option, so nice job picking one, describing it clearly, and assessing the performance well!
Nice comparison Randy. When you reach this level they should all sound good and I don't think anyone is going to be doing A/B comparisons at home. Looking forward to the next one.
I did a recent AB between a 1992 Sony CD player and another CD transport played through an inexpensive Topping DAC. I think quite a few of us would like to do these comparisons to see how much difference we can hear with different DACs.
@@martytoo 1982 maybe?
@@nc3419 1992. Thanks for catching that.
Many of us will do an a, b, test
Great review! Where would the Orchard Audio DAC (burr brown based) stack up? That used to be your favorite DAC before the Denafrips/Schiit
Same question here! Thought I made up my mind to get a Denafrips after watching so many nice reviews about it, but then got really tempted by the PecanPi for its much more affordable price and the included headphone amp.
Thanks for the review, found it informative. I do however find it unfortunate how the majority of the reviews for these DACs are done through headphones. I wish more reviewers listened to the DACs through speakers, I would expect the differences between them to be more pronounced in a room.
Denafrips just jacked there price on the area, so now a fair comparison is the gungnir multibit
All that trouble for a “more cowbell” reference. Shaking my head…
Everyone needs more cowbell.
One of the best analysis and way of talking! Congrats! Very good and very interesting!
Dang! Literally just ordered the D90SE! I think I’ll be more than happy with it in my implementation though.
You bought the best measuring DAC. You actually have evidence your DAC does differentiate from the others here in a positive way. This video does absolutely nothing to educate anyone on DACs…it’s just subjective bullshit.
You made the best choice.
@@plcamp1 I agree with you except one thing… it’s not fair to call this review bullshit. Every review is subjective and you have to look at multiple sources and consider the POV of the source. I watch a lot of this guy’s videos and like him a lot. What he says about the Ares doesn’t jive with what I’ve heard elsewhere, so I’ve taken that into account.
@@plcamp1 best measuring is just that best measuring, but it doesn't translate to sound quality and how it sounds(TO US) moron.
Returned the D90SE. 🤷🏻♂️
@@jessewebber9245 how come? What'd you replace it with?
Comparing speakers is tough enough. DACs even more so. Thank you for all the time this comparison must have taken.
I look forward to the speaker version of this. I only use headphones when I'm traveling.
You mentioned cowbell. Always more cowbell I’m a metal head. Job for a cowboy. Great band live. Heavy as all hell!
One day randy will discover B roll, and it will change his life
All these dacs are great
and all 3 sound almost exactly the same.
I got the Sanskrit 2 as it sounded better than the Modi Multibit on my headphones. My headphones and speakers are good but I doubt good enough to take advantage of a $700 dac.
Solid review! We needed this.
Keep in mind that if you buy any Denafrips DAC from Vinshine there is no return/refund policy, so you can’t return it if you just don’t like it.
have you heard the aries 2? its pretty rad. i could see someone keeping it merely for its sound profile. its not flat. but it has this thing that can really change a solid state amp. im running a b100 sst from bryston and i was so impressed by it especially for the money. it had me and a friend just laughing at how good it was.
A $90 d10 has better performance.
@@r423sdex All of the Topping stuff measures well and gives you more features than the Denafrips DACs. Doesn’t make them sound better.
I had Topping D50, D90, A50, A50s, P50 - got rid of them all.
Think the smart play might be to get a Freya+ and for $1600 you get a Schiit show with volume.Like that guy said in Treasure Of The Sierra Madre "We don't need no stinking MQA"
Excellent review, looking forward to the DAC speaker review!
Thanks for the thorough comparison, and I especially like that you mention the exact points in the exact songs where you heard differences. However, compared to what I've read elsewhere (and I haven't heard any of these DACs myself), this review is a complete outlier. Which doesn't make it wrong, but it is very surprising, and confusing when added to other reviews of the same products.
For example, based on prior reviews, I would have expected the sharpest, most transparent, most analytical of these, with the most treble "air" to be the D90SE, followed by the Bifrost 2, and then the Ares 2. But your review suggests that the Ares 2 is by far the most detailed in the treble area, followed by the D90SE, with the Bifrost 2 last. The one I expected to be the most "buttery smooth" based on other reviews was the Ares 2, not the Bifrost 2.
It's really hard to reconcile these differences in what all appear to be very thorough reviews. It's not something that can be explained by the quality of the reviewers' hearing or the quality of their overall sound systems. One would expect that two people even having different hearing abilities and different sound systems would still both pick the same DAC as sharper or smoother, to the extent they could hear any differences.
Maybe someone can add to this discussion who has also directly compared any of these, or all 3. I thought I had somewhat of an understanding of these DACs, but after this review I am more confused than ever. Even though "CheapAudioMan" was very clear in what he was saying. It's merely when I try to put various reviews together to reach a consensus, I can't seem to make one.
Ares II owner here, I enjoy it very much. For hip-hop/electronic type of music I prefer the bur brown DAC that is built-in on my Outlaw RR2160MKII. I don’t usually listen to electronic/hip-hop, so that’s OK with me. Regarding reviewer‘s, Randy is as real as real can get. Sometimes I feel that other reviewer‘s hype up products to not start issues with their supplier.
@@Feliciano12v Thanks for the comment. I don't doubt Randy's sincerity or his ability, and I like that he was very specific in this review as to the audio tracks he was comparing and even the exact point in a song where he heard differences between the DACs. It's just that the other reviewers, who also seem honest, have loved the Ares II but have said it's not the last word in details.
It sounds as if you also might feel that the Ares II is a little rounded off in the treble, which presumably would be why you prefer the built-in Burr Brown Delta-Sigma DAC for Hip Hop or Electronic. Unless you feel that the Ares II is "too detailed" for that type of music? Just trying to make sense of the Ares II sound before I commit to a shipment from Singapore to the USA.
By the way, I have two Burr-Brown based DACs myself, very good chips/DACs. One is the internal DAC on an NAD C542 CD player, the other is a "home industry" TADAC DAC (Burr Brown chip with a vacuum tube follower) from Paul Grzybek. Kind of old technology now though, so I'm looking to possibly upgrade.
@@andrewfurst5711 the Ares II focuses a lot on the mid range which is why I prefer it for heavy metal, rock, reggae etc. There is detail, but enough to not miss it compared to the burr brown built-in on my integrated. The Arees II also has great instrument separation and soundstage.
Loving your reviews from the U.K……….☕️ My coffee is waiting. For your next one….👍
Super interesting. I am not sure with all of the other equipment in the chain that I would hear a difference but, all good stuff and fair review.
Streaming in my experience makes me think back to ones teenage years. You got tired of playing your 25 or so records over and over again (all you could afford). So you often listened to FM. It had muddy bass, & didn't have near the sound quality of lp's, or even a good cassette, but there was VARIETY. Streaming never sounds as present & palpably there, as playing cds, or lps, people with sub par digital or analog front ends will argue to the contrary. But people with say real good CD plalyback like myself will be more tempted to play a CD than stream. Just like back in the 1980's we were more tempted to play an LP over a cassette or FM. Variety vs. Better Sound Quality. Just which one you are pulled more toward might be a good indication of what percent audiophile you are vs.what percent music lover you are. If you are 90% audiophile, you probably won't sit on your couch & stream much. It's too big of a come down in sound quality, even with some of the better streaming technology. At least its not bass muddy as hell like FM. And hearing a particular piece of music for the very first time is a different experience than you will ever have with that music again. Do these guys with 5,000 cds and 5,000 lps do a lot of streaming, looking for more music?
I listen to LPS, CDs, FM, and streaming. I have good FM stations that are non commercial and play live music sometimes. So streaming has yet to better FM for me. But dang, I love all of that music at my fingertips!
Speak for yourself. You need a dedicated streamer/transport. And/or a good DDC, especially if you’re using a computer. I recommend the Singxer SU-6 as it’s pretty much the best one at it’s price ATM. I use a Project Streambox S2 Ultra into a Bifrost 2, and it sounds better then any other source I have. And there's a lot of tweaking left to go.
For instance a DDC, a better USB cable, a wired internet connection, a quality ethernet switch and cable, my MiniDSP Studio SHD, etc. Still waiting for my new Purifi amp to come in, and I may still upgrade the DAC really soon too. But I'm not too worried about any of it ATM, as it already beats anything I've owned previously already. I use Qobuz BTW which definitely makes a difference also.
If you specifically build a system around streaming. It can definitely sound better then just about anything else. The only possible exception is an extremely expensive CD player, or CD transport. But certainly not a regular one. You can get a streaming setup to up sample, and you can use the best DACS in the world. This is where the technology is still advancing ATM, and I mean every part of streaming too, not just DACs. There's only a handful of high end CD players being built nowadays, and the technology has become pretty stagnant.
Not to mention there's all in one's available, like the NAD M33, NAD, M10, or the Lyngdorf tdai-1120. Which even include built in room correction software, and in the case of the Lyngdorf can even change it's native tone to whatever your mood and/the music calls for ATM.
Everytime I hear people talk about how CD, and records still sounds better then streaming. I feel bad for those people. Because they're completely missing out on what's current in our hobby right now. And the resulting uptick in SQ that goes along with it.
Streaming has not only become better, but it's also become cheaper. A lot cheaper, and usually much easier too. Look at what buying a set of Kef LS50 wireless gets you for the money. They sound stupid good, have everything built right in to give high end sound out of the box, and once you buy them. All you need is to sign up for a free trial of Qobuz, or Tidal, and you've got sound quality on par with a high end system who's speakers cost more then your whole entire setup. With ZERO boxes to upset your SO also.
Sorry fellas, but nothing beats streaming anymore. Not the other way around. And the sooner people accept this. The happier they're going to be too. I'll be happy to point you in the right direction if you're interested in your whole new world you're missing out on. I assure you. You'll wonder why you waited so long to do it. I know this because it happens to everyone who purchases a good quality streamer at the minimum, or moves up to something like the NAD M33 for instance.
Including myself when I plugged in my used Pro-ject Streambox I bought for only $550 and ditched my computer. Trust me all the old ideas about digital have been proven wrong, and overcome already. You just need to know what to purchase to get that dream that was promised to us years ago when digital was introduced. It only took a few decades! But it did finally happen, and it's only getting better thankfully. ✌️
the Ares is no less than $850 anywhere and yes, its in USD, goddamn... i think these videos bumped up the price lol because in every single one of them i hear the price is $(700 - 750) ish.
I left rap caviar for this attack. Interesting playlist for an old head.
I'm quite perplexed by statements that the Ares has loads of detail that's comparable or superior to the d90. I've owned the Ares and have since moved on to the d90 MQA (on a speaker set up) and it's not even close. I accept that this was a review of the ESS version, but going off the reviews, they should perform similarly. I would describe the difference between the Ares and d90 as looking at a grainy 70s photograph vs a modern HD photo. I'm not making claims about which is more enjoyable (d90 has its downsides too), but in terms of sheer detail retrieval ability, the Ares is lacking in comparison, even lacking when compared to the original d70. Maybe the unit I got was a dud? If so, that's probably more of a concern with the brand than off-base reviewer impressions.
You must consider your system synergy, and do you listen with phones or speakers mostly, as well as types of music, and what is your past music listening experience. I don't hear huge differences in the Ares II and the Topping D90 that would be a deal breaker for either one. I'm am older vinyl and FM listener. Just enjoying both units emencely for now. My D90 is the non Sabre version. The Ares sounds like it has meat on the bones of the music and more air around the notes. The D90 has more detailed resolution, but not by much. YMMV
@@chrish.4067 I have a nice class A amp together with dynaudio speakers, they both seem to respond well in terms of additional resolution thrown at them, haven't hit a bottleneck yet - the Ares just sounded grainy, found myself having to focus extra to try to pick out the detail, the d90 is pretty much the opposite where the detail is in your face, perhaps too much at times. I'll be trying out the bifrost next, hopeful I'll hit the Goldilocks zone with it.
@@buckethead84 I find your grainy observation interesting. I'll have to listen for that. Listening now to mellow jazz. My amp is a 2A3 tube amp with high sensitivity speakers. Luckily I'm in no hurry to decide between these two. 🎶
The D90LE is $100 cheaper than the SE and the only difference is no support for MQA, putting at only $20 more than Ares II
Instant click. This is awesome!
I have the original D90 and decided to try the D90SE. After nearly 2 weeks, I really can't hear any appreciable difference between them. My other components are KEF LS50 Meta, Avantone CLA-200, SVS 3000 Micro. I listen to a lot of N-I-N, Gary Numan, Combichrist and other industrial/electronic rock. I'm a big time PC gamer, too. I'm returning the D90SE and might try an R2R like the Ares 2. Very good video, mate!
If you're considering the Denafrips for gaming, I'd encourage you to take a look at some reviews about buffering issues with video. Seems the Denafrips has a bit of a buffering delay for video, so you might be better off with the Bifrost which by all accounts buffers much more quickly.
@@YuengsNwings I ended up buying the Denafrips Pontus 2. Have had it for about a month and am blown away by it's performance. No buffering issues so far. I never expected to spend so much on a dac, but almost 80% of the cost was covered by other gear I sold.
Good stuff. Can’t wait for the next one!
Did you make the Dac Attack speaker version?
I find that that quality you mentioned of holographic-ness with speakers really reveals what a dac can or can’t do.
Great video, again!
What is the best coffee for getting in sync with your reviews?
love this dude
I’m gonna get the Denafrips to go with my Willsenton r8.
OOOH! How does that sound?
Hi Randy. I noticed that you keep mentioning that the Denafrips Ares 2 cost about $700. This has not been the case in months. When I purchased my Aris2 a couple of months ago it was $1000. It has not changed since as of 7/5. Price is one of the most important data points to nail in a video comparing product. Inaccurate price information changes the context immensely.
Just an FYI.
Samuel. The price is $763 as of yesterday in USD. I pinned a comment about this. Check it out. You were looking at it in Singapore dollars and not US dollars
@@cheapaudioman Well I be damn! I got mine from shenzhenaudio for $999. I feel gipped! 😜
Thanks for the clarification!
@@CriPPleR_HD I didn’t even know They sold the denafrips. I was under the impression that Vinshine was the only distributor of the ares 2.
@@CriPPleR_HD ultimately I still think it’s worth 1K anyway but that stinks
@@cheapaudioman yea, and there price is the legit $999. No crazy exchange rate shenanigans. This was one of my point of confusion that lead me to think that the price on Vinshine was over $1000. shenzhenaudio.com/products/denafrips-ares-ii-r-2r-dac-support-dsd1024-24bit-1536khz-decoder
Thanks for the price clarification. Ares 2 is a fantastic DAC, especially at $760 and most people won’t know the actual price until the place it in there cart.
Cheapaudioman living up to his name and bringing savings to the community. You love to see it! 🤘🏽
I ended up with Bifrost 2 and skipped out on Ares because the deals kinda dried up when I was shopping around. Bifrost 2 in perfect used condition for $650 couldn't say no. Constantly being amazed by Bifrost 2 even a year later but always wondering if I missed out.
An interesting addition to this comparison would be to include the Zen DAC Signature. According to iFi, this is a higher-end DAC but priced at $300. It's very different from the Zen DAC v2 as it doesn't include a headphone amp but does include a higher-end circuit design and better components. One item that I've read elsewhere, is that the Denefrips (and maybe other R2R DACs) have a time delay issue when connected to the optical connection of a TV. Apparently, it makes the Denafrips a bit of a challenge as the lip-sync is off.
Is this true?
You need to try the Tone Board! Or the Tone Pro 2 but it is $200. The Tone Board is $80 and simply amazing
Based on my sound taste. Give me the Schiit..
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Orchard Audio's DAC in comparison to these. You raved about the Orchard Audio DAC in your Pecanpi review and said you wanted to own it, but now seem quite smitten with the Denafrips Ares 2. Keep up the great work Randy!
I have A/B's the OA and the Denafrips. The OA doesn't have quite as much activity in the top end as the Denafrips but it is excellent. If OA had a stand alone dac with a few inputs it would be a much longer conversation. As it sits now, the OA sounds fantastic but just can't compete with the Denafrips due to it's price and limitations with inputs.
New Record Day did the Halo May DAC ..reviewing with good old fashioned 💿 …16-44.1 red book . Given the powerful computational power and quality of the output…it is the real test for a DAC.
Other sources ( hi res) are good …but the test is still what can it do with 💿.
Great shootout btw.
Thanks for the video…also try the Schitt on the 604 😊
I'm waiting for hi res streaming music to better CD music. It ain't happened yet.
The way to test three DAC’s is this.
Take three identical sources. Run them into your three DAC’s. Run all three DAC’s into the same amp. Sit back and flick between inputs.
I guarantee you will hear almost no difference.
Excellent breakdown, CAM. What type of headphone amp would you rec for the Schiit Bifrost 2? A more clear sound amp, like 789 or ____________________? Thank you!
Very informative! I just can’t decide if I should try one of these or if I don’t need one. Looking at the denafrips. I’m using a rotel rc1590mkii with its built in dac. Do you think the denafrips ares II would be a noticeable addition? I stream through a pro-ject stream box s2 ultra.
Hi!! I have a bluesound node 2021 and im using it as a streamer and dac. Would you consider one of this dac will be a improvement over node dac?
Thanks man. Cheers from Chile I love your channel!
Common Randy. It's ok. You can say the Ares chews the competition and spits them out. It is what it is.
I’m still undecided on what dac to get. Bifrost 2, matrix mini i pro 3 or the denafrips ares 2. Anybody has any experience of these 3?
0:38 Nice. Now i want some.
I'm sorry Danny, but I was just waiting the entire video for you to call this the Great DAC XXf. :) Enjoyed the review as always.
It’s Randy. You know that, right?
@@cheapaudioman yes, I was hoping you caught it.
Leave Danny alone! 😎
Leave Danny alone! 😎
I can get the Topping for $599 from APOS.... vs $799 for the bifrost... is the topping worthwhile for that price?
Just a quick note Bidrost vs D70s would have ruled n epic!!!!!@!
I have mr speaker ether cx with hart cables to zen stack! Happy with it. Need a new sack with remote for my vintage stereo amp. Prob want a higher output or variable so I’m here for your opinions!
I've been looking at the Ares 2. I've never owned an R2R DAC but I've always been curious if I'm missing out. I use a Teac UD-301(2 Burr-Browns in dual mono) that I've had for years that I love. I've listened to multiple DS DACs and the Teac is by far my favorite so I just don't know if the Ares 2 would be a upgrade or just a side-grade. BTW my setup is headphones only. The UD-301 runs to a THX 887 balanced...
Not sure if this is an obvious thing or not, but is it a worthwhile upgrade to add the denafrips to take on the DAC duties from my Node 2i and just use the Node as a pure streamer? I'm on Tidal at the moment but will probably move to Spotify HiFi if that turns out decent.
Of course that’s what I’m doing now there is a difference it’s not night and day but it is a larger soundstage Is more open and the voices sound more pure organic
Yes, it is definitely worthwhile and many people seem to do that, from the comments I’ve read. The DAC portion does not get high marks but is capable, but the streamer will serve you well and it saves you from buying a separate streamer right now.
I have the Node 2i and the Topping D90 and the Ares II. Both are an upgrade in sound. Is it worth $800? If you can easily afford the external DAC, then yes. However, I could easily live with the Node 2i as is. It's non fatiguing and musical. The external DAC brings more resolution to the music.
I’ve upgraded from the Ares II to the Pontus II and noticed a difference as well - not saying that’s necessary, just pointing out that the Node can scale. I had the Node 2 and the 2i and noticed no difference in the streamer performance.
@@chrish.4067 Yep!
Bifrost II is also home user upgradeable (I wish that my original Bifrost was).
Nice comparison! I thought Bifrost 2 would be clear winner Ares II second and Topping last as clean and bright! You gave me something to think about. Are you sure Brifrost 2 has a edgy lower treble?
Hi, great review. so im running Schiit modi/Heresy stack. im planning to get Valhalla2 (for my 6XX) and also planning to go balanced, since i dont plan to use tube all day, only when i wanna listen to music. so i can RCA to Val2 and XLR to another balanced amp. what DAC would you recommend? under $500-600. can go higher. I was looking at smsl SU9, x16, also Bifrost2. I listen to music on Tidal. I mainly use 6XX, Ananda and Clear. Thank you.
Nice one. Very clear and informative.time for a cup of coffee.
Maybe use a ddc to feed each dac using maybe spdif/coax as each of those dacs could have different usb quality possibly favoring bf2 with their unison usb. and also use more than one amp. I also feel quick a/b testing doesn't really give you enough, as each dac can have different characteristics that may not develop without allowing your brain to adjust. Just my two cents! Thanks for taking the time to review these dacs
Ah, I was curious about the unison usb too. I have an Oppo 85 transport with coax out to the BF2, and ripped CDs and hi res downloads on an iPhone 6s+ feeding the unison usb. The BF2 is balanced to a Jot 2 to Arya headphones. Comparing the same CD via coax to it's ripped version, usb; the coax has a bit more separation and hi end resolution (air) but more "floor" noise.
So on "Surfacing", Sarah's voice has a bit more echo thru the coax which fades somewhat to surrounding "blackness" via usb. A small loss of detail, for a smoother top end and better base slam with a darker overall presentation on usb. Close enough that I enjoy both connections though usb is superior on this system.
I would like to know how they sound on single ended outputs and on speakers as well. Alot of amps don't have xlr and I have a large cd collection. So streaming, physical media on both speakers and cans should be assessed.
Which has the most 3D like soundstage and R2R need to be on and warmed up at least a day, perhaps longer for the ares 2.
God I should have waited to look at these. One with speakers is coming. The Ares is the most holographic by a long shot and the ares has been one for weeks
@@cheapaudioman Very tempting. How do you think it would perform on classical music, jazz, blues, human voice?
How about movie soundtracks via optical?
@@nc3419 for me the Ares does voices the best. I listen to acoustic and jazz quite a bit. The optical input sounds as good as the coaxial input to me.
@@chrish.4067 Thanks. Do you run it in NOS mode or via one of its' filters? Does it retain its' stage depth either way?
@@nc3419 it sounds similar in NOS or OS mode. The Soundstage stays about the same. It's still new for me.
amazing sound explanation with the time stamp :-) Love you Randy
Were you using the NOS setting or the OS setting ... There is a sharp or slow filter in the OS mode ... Kind Regards
Given the Denefrips recent increase in price a better pairing might be with the Schiit Gungnir ($1,146 vs $1199) It would be interesting to see a shootout of those products. BTW the Bifrost is currently $799.
$1146 .... I think you are looking at Singapore dollars .... big difference to USD.
Great review!
Excellent Shootout. The Bifrost 2 is a great DAC. Good bang for the Buck.
Something about this review bugs me - I can't exactly put my finger on it. But I think it has to do with my favorite part of this channel being to identify gear that punches above it's price point - high dollar to performance ratio. Getting into these higher dollar DACs I don't think that value statement came through quite as clear as it does for your lower dollar review. Not a bad review at all, just feels a little off compared to your others... Maybe a
This video is 2 yrs old. The audience that is into cheap audio overtime makes more money, become more discerning listeners, and look for upgrades. It’s inevitable that Cheap Audio man has to review higher end products as well.
I wouldn't use balance I would use the RCA, none of those devices I don't believe are truely balanced circuitry so you're better off using RCA.
According to measurements, these dac's balanced outputs have lower noise. They must be doing something useful!
Hardly any real difference unless you have long cables... Which you shouldn't need anyway.
Thanks for the comparison, I'm looking forward to the comparison with speakers since I do 90% of my listening that way. So far I'm leaning towards the Denafrips but some of the things you said about the Bifrost are intriguing. I have a Node 2i streamer and use both Tidal and Amazon HD. What I am looking for is the DAC that will give me the most analog type of sound. It seems the Denafrips has the edge here??
Bifrost 2 got my digital setup closer to my vinyl rig. Timbre is just right with Bifrost. You also have very good detail retrieval and great bass slam.
@@MrKarlengel thanks. I like the Bifrost as an option. I currently have Modi 3, but disconnected it from the Node and just using the built in DAC. I didn't notice much difference between the Modi and the DAC in the Node. So I figured a better DAC would be the next logical step to try to bring the sound closer to an analog sound.
I heard denafrips have less dynamic, how it compare with topping d30?
Because im looking for organic and big soundstage, but i prefer a good enough dynamic
I do not notice that Denafrips Ares II is less dynamic. YMMV ✌
Thanks for the comparison. What headphones did you use? I know you said closed back, I'm wondering about make and model.
www.danclarkaudio.com/catalog/product/view/id/56/s/aeon-rt-new/category/85/
see if you can get your hands on a musician draco. i'd love to hear your take on the difference between that and the ares II.
I've watched many of your videos and I have to ask you. If I have $1000 to spend on a dac and amp. I primarily will be using open back sennheiser hd 599 headsets now and eventually get some decent monitors. However, I'm really looking for a big Soundstage and impression of warm, fun, and clear audio. New to HI-fi audio but don't want to out grow my setup right away. Thanks, love your videos!
Dear Cheap, I would truly appreciate a comparison of the Bifrost with the Modi Multibit. This would be in the spirit of the channel - "Aw, Schiit - How Low Can You Go?"
Throw a Modius in the mix.
Talked to the yesterday. Lead time of 16 weeks
@@cheapaudioman Who is hoarding all the cheap multibit DACs? They must be stopped.
@@onepieceatatime ha. Supply chain issues
@@cheapaudioman Got it. Cue Fleetwood Mac's "The Chain"
Cheap audio man starting to become middle class audio man! Lol.
NAH, "Mid-Fi Audioman"
Denafripps dac alternative is starting too look like a good idea.
My cd players dac when playing vaw. is fantastic trumped only by my mp500 nagaoaka and CP-1 from Cambridge audio for pre phono.
YES, DAC ATTACK 🤘
DAC output is balanced but if the amp is not balanced inputs would you use a balanced di cable out and other end rca left and right into amp?
Actually they all have single ended outputs as well
Where is the comparison you reference using these through speakers....can't locate it.