I'm thinking about buying the Audiolab 6000CDT. Would you be interested in doing a review on it if I ship it to you? You can ship it back to me afterwards.
Dynamic range of the Pontus 2 is 121dB. Pretty sure the best DACs in the world right now have a dynamic range of 125dB. So the Pontus is right up there. Funny side note: 121dB is 23dB shy of 144dB (the dynamic range of a 24 bit signal) So even the best DACs in the world don't/can't fully reproduce the dynamic range of a 24 bit signal. Not that it matters. I doubt you're listening to your music at a volume louder than a gunshot.
Hi Randy, for those of us who are truly on a tight budget, the price difference between a Gishelli J2 AKM vs the Denafrips Ares II is substantial. I understand that there are definitive differences between the chip delta sigma construct vs the R2R. That said, both you and almost all other content creators rave over the Gishelli J2 AKM matching or exceeding their $1,000 delta sigma counterparts. And, you comment in this video that the Gishelli is your second favorite DAC to the Ares II. So, is it possible you could do a dac to dac review between the two explaining why or why not the $500 price difference might be justified to us working audiophiles who need to hear it from the cheapaudioman? Thanks
Great review, I appreciate this as a Ares II owner. I like how you review more expensive gear from time to time to have more experience to be able to recommend cheaper alternatives.
Agree the Pontus 2 is for better for higher end 2 channel systems. The I2S connection handles SACD as native DSD rather than PCM so if you have I2S outputs from your SACD player you will get DSD playback as the SACD signal is fully exposed.
How do you come to the conclusion that "the Pontus II is for better for higher en 2 channel system" ? Do you think it's better than an SMSL SU-1? Why? And do you think you would you ear any difference in a blind test?
@@cheapaudioman Comparative value is a thing we all can appreciate. I think under 2k for the front end components is about as high as many of us can go per item. That being said I dont mind reasonable aspirational gear to buy being shown as it lets us be informed about the most common reasonable step up from the sub grand market.
Welcome down the rabbit hole Randy! I agree, you can get very good performance for not a lot of money. But when you start going high end, you get benefits such as detail without graininess, smooth even. Thats when music start to become special.
Absolut killer combo. The hermes gets even more soundstage, smoother sound and better imaging out of the pontus 2. Always, if your system is resolving enough etc. Also recommend the I2S connecton. And Pontus 2 needs 200 h of Burn in. After that, absolut spectacular. Hermes plus Pontus: match in heaven.
I have had the Denafrips Pontus II for 8 months now. It's been wonderful. I have it hooked up to a Soundaware D300 streamer (Roon endpoint) via the I2S (HDMI) cable. The pinout is compatible. This combination works so well sonically. It's wonderful detail in the upper registers with rich full bass in the lower end.
@@tommccarthy3385 realism...dynamic range, imaging mostly depends on the headphone or speakers you are using, and that is true, imaging can not be measured well....yet. but telling me a human ear can measure sound better than a precise electronic devices?. please
Great review Randy! The Ares II was also a game changer for myself. The chip DACs were killing my ears. Yes, they sounded great, but after an hour or so, or even less, my ears were bleeding... They all sounded the same to me... And then I said screw it, I need to hear this Denafrips DAC everyone is raving about... It is magical, it allowed me to finally sit and enjoy my music. I enjoyed the Ares II so much, I bought their Iris DDC, Hades preamp and Thallo amplifier to go with my KLH Model 5 speakers. Time to upgrade to the Pontus II, and then my audio journey should be over. At least for awhile. Your take on the connections was spot on too, something folks should take into consideration. Keep up the GREAT work!
I got the Pontus II in January. It had static in signal. I was like, WHAT?!? Contacted Vinshine (Denifrips) and they had me flash the USB with files downloaded from their website with my laptop. A bit of a pain, drivers were not signed and windows doesn’t like that anymore. Had to do special windows boot up. Got past that, but flash didn’t fix it. Dang! Then they sent me a new USB II board… the one that’s in the Terminator. 😎 Put that in (it was easy, plug and play) and now it sounds sublime. Took about 3 weeks to work it all out. Vinshine does support their products and they are very responsive. They had a guy in Buda TX send me the board FedEx. Good people. I LOVE this DAC!! I’m running it with: Willsenton R8 Stock tubes BlueSound node 2i Heresy IVs
The Ares II has made me spend so much money on hifi. I like it more than other dacs. I like it more than the dacs in AVRs. So I have made a separate home theatre system and separate music listening system as a way to compromise and not get rid of my ares II dac. I like the noise elimination of the XLR connections so naturally I made a purifi amp to go with my lovely Ares II. All these separates and HT systems in the same area have given me a ground loop that I have finally solved but when it comes down to it I can make up reasons why I can change everything else except the Ares II dac. It makes my 15 year old paradigm monitor 7s sound so good.
One benefit of the Pontus II over the Ares II is the i2s connection. Not found on cheaper Dac's. A lot of people will not need it or use it. BUT! If you are into SACD's then the benefit is great. CD/SACD stand alone players play cds and can be hooked up with external dac's, SACD playback is subjected to be played only through the unit and not an external dac or maybe so! Enters the Oppo bdp-105D with HDMI out, cabling hdmi to i2s to i2s input on the Pontus II and here we go it takes the SACD playback to another level of sound. Must admit I have not heard it myself so ! I have the Oppo hooked up to RME adi-2 fs dac ( which does not have the i2s connection ) The i2s could be for some regarding SACD a revelation ! Would be worth a look/listen if you still have the Pontus II on hand, compare the the two. regards.
I actually use the Pontus 2, and the balanced output really helped get the best out of my system in very real ways. The output voltage was much better for my pre-amp which is low gain, and overall made my system work much better together.
@@Lauren080508 . I am just referring to the fact that the balanced output voltage is close to 4.4 volts which is about double the unbalanced voltage. That is helpful for my Schiit freya plus which has unity gain (O db) on the solid state output stage. Simply matches better with the freya or other low gain balanced preamps. Wouldn’t be needed with a more typical 10-14db of gain but nice for my situation.
@@insurrectionindustries1706 I see , I understand your logic, but at the end , will it make a discernible difference in your music, I have a feeling will not, but you could prove me wrong
Yes, the difference is not subtle, but that is simply due to my system and the specific voltage gain, input and output impedances of my components. These are real engineering factors that change the way my system operates which is clearly audible, but for people with different equipment such an integrated amp it would likely make no difference at all. It’s just important to know how components interact with each other
I went to Denafrips to buy the Ares II after watching your review a while ago. It was out of stock so I stepped up to the Pontus II. Holy schiit! My jaw was dropped and stayed on the floor for a month at least. I was using the DAC in the Bluesound Node with NAD C298 power amp and KEF LS50. The difference Pontus II made was even bigger than my last speakers upgrade (from Elac Debut Reference). I had no idea DAC can make big differences like this. But I agree with your take on the available inputs. They should take out at least one AES input for another optical.
It was shocking, I should have bought the Pontus right out of the gate too... I kick myself now, but will order one here in a few weeks. The Ares II totally changed how I listen to, and enjoy music. It was that profound.
@@michaelwright1602 I bought Ares II and Iris two weeks ago and am disappointed. Flat image, not enough resolution or detail. Trying to decide whether to replace with Pontus or Yggy LiM.
Nothing wrong with covering some aspirational gear from time to time! I love the shark week analogy. Part of enjoying your channel is living vicariously through you and hearing about the gear that comes through your door. You've always stayed grounded in the approach to reviewing more costly gear with a "but is it worth it" perspective. Invest once is my philosophy. If it's that good and you get many years of enjoyment out of it then you're in a better place than spending less and chasing better sound by turning your gear over more frequently.
Well done. Your ears are spot on. I also have the Pontus 2 and also the Terminator Plus. Believe it or not, I prefer the Pontus a lot of the time… It has character, kicks ass!
I owned the Pontus II for about 6 months (Sept 2021 - March 2022). In all honesty, I couldn't tell any difference between it and my Topping D90 (non-MQA)... except for the price. I tried all kinds of tweaks, but nothing ever really made a difference to my ears. A few reviewers told me the real benefits of the P2 could be heard with headphones. After 5 years working in talk radio, I can't stand those things clamped on my dome now. I ended up selling both my P2 and D90. I bought the FiiO K9 Pro ESS and have been quite pleased with it. I think I'm done with dac shopping for a few years. Excellent video, mate!!
I recently, April 2022, purchased the Ares II and the price was $878 U.S. in total. It used to be $750 or so but those days are over. It’s nearly $900 now. I’ve also had buffer overrun issues with the optical connections resulting in occasional pops, similar to a vinyl pop. The solution was to switch to USB, which wasn’t my preferred method. The Ares II is very enjoyable to listen to and since there is no return policy I’ll be keeping it. Just wanted to share some additional real-world experience that it’s nearly $900 and the optical connections can have issues depending on your source. Thanks and keep up the good work.
I replaced a Mytek Brooklyn Dac with the Pontus ii a few months ago. The Pontus let’s digital music sound like Analog. Lush soundstage. Vocals are clear yet non fatiguing. I find myself sitting and Listening to multiple albums . The Mytek was a great versatile machine. But, in no way is the sound signature comparable. I’m sure I’ll pony up the $ for the Terminator ii . But for now, I’m completely happy with the Pontus.
Thank you for this review Randy. I enjoy your channel for value oriented audio gear. But I also enjoy other channels that review the higher end. I may never buy, but I enjoy a little window shopping. Keep up the great work! 👍👍👍
That summary was spot on.. Shouldn’t be shy on RCA coaxial connections for sure. Connections seem to be an issue on a lot of equipment these days; missing receptacles, missing tape loops, pre-outs missing main ins missing, the list goes on and on. It’s all part of that over exaggerated effort to minimize the audio chain and associated costs that can be marketing blurbed away. The manufacturers assume they know what the average customer is looking for at every price point or want you to spend more on the next level up. The consumer is constantly assaulted and insulted by what the capitalist market will bear to maximize profit margin and only giving the illusion of value to the customer, not actual value. Sometimes they get it right, but it’s not the common occurrence, and if it happens, it doesn’t stay that way for a long!
A friend of mine lent me the Pontus II to listen to and compare to my Ares II. The Pontus II is better. I am going to live with the Ares after returning the Pontus. Not sure how long I’ll last. One youve heard greatness, its hard to unhear.
Randy, you represent an honest “see both sides” point of view, which is getting rarer by the hour in this divided world we inhabit. I began and have stuck with your channel as you’ve grown, and it’s been great to see. You have been an Everyman Audiophile and refreshingly not disconnected from middle-class father reality, well, until spending $1800 on a DAC is suggested as significant audio system ‘value’. Where most people wouldn’t spend that on a set of SPEAKERS, arguably the most important piece, I can’t relate in the slightest. The DIY CSS Critons, which I bought due to your enthusiasm-they are truly awesome and have brought incredible improvement and joy - for HALF of what this DAC costs. I’m sorry, it’s in the 1% realm with expensive cables, risers and power conditioners. Your loyalty and passion for the Aries II was already on the high end. It’s unfortunate to see, but this looks more like you are trying to grow beyond the confines of the original CheapAudioMan. By seriously reviewing this segment of gear, you’re potentially risking alienation of the ‘value’ crowd that has supported you channel. IMO, $1800 DAC’s are better suited for 70k Ron at NRD.
Now that you are reviewing in the $1800 range we need the cheapaudioman take on the Chord Qutest. Love Denafrips Ares 2 on my speaker setup but picked up a Qutest for my headphone set up. Of corse I had to try it on my speakers… Two examples of dacs making a big positive difference, while at the same time sounding completely different than each other.
Realize that for a couple of bucks, you can get an RCA to BNC adaptor, so you can have an additional SPIDF connection...just sayn'... and yes, I love my Pontus 2...
Love my Pontus II also. You are right, you still get 2 coax inputs, one is on BNC, but you can get an rca-bnc adaptor for a few bucks, or use a coaxial cable with rca on one end and BNC on the other end. All you are losing is one optical input for 2 aes inputs and importantly for me an I2S input I use for SACD from my Oppo via a $60 HDMI to I2S breakout box.
Hi Randy, saw your comparo for ares II and Pontus II. Re: optical connections, I have used optic splitters that solve the problem of having only 1 toslink input on the dac . They are inexpensive. BTW, I purchased Heresy IV's because they are smallish and Don't block my windows. They do however require a subwoofer.
Happy with my E30 but I like your take on expensive gear, keep it up 👍 ignore the haters, why wouldn't you want to know how expensive stuff compares to cheaper?!
Because they have been measured. Expensive DACs are snake oil/placebo, many scientific test have concluded that you can't differenciate them in a blind test. Measurements also show this again and again.
@@hypnoz7871 I appreciate measurements too, like I said I use Topping E30 which is objectively a great DAC and to me it sounds great. But there are other channels for objective/measurement reviews (which I also follow, maybe even more), but I don't come here expecting that.
I agree that the point of diminishing returns may edge in for some here. My listening to a friend’s Pontus and the Ares2 is part of what motivated me to purchase the Ares 2……standing as the most significant and pleasurable DAC upgrade I’ve had in years. The thing is built like a tank though I just could not get motivated enough during critical listening to thrown in for the Pontus….instead electing for a balanced pre-amp to pair with the Ares.
Hey Randy, nice review. I think it’s fair to say most people don’t have 2k to spend on a DAC. The folks that do are probably the kind who seek the best sources and digital processing. So that would be a dedicated streamer and perhaps a digital to digital converter (eg. Denafrips Gaia) to reclock the signal using the I2S (usually I squared S btw). By the time you get to the amp, you’re probably up to 5k spend. The only input they’re likely to use optical on would be the TV, as that’s generally all they got. It’s the worst option. So I would say Denafrips knows its customers’ needs and provides the optimum inputs for the market segment.
Using DAC's I2S connected to DDC's I2S is the biggest jump on the SQ of the digital audio realm, hands down. It took proper pairing and good literacy of audio gears used though.
Good point. 👍🏼…but think of all the money, FUSSING and TIME I saved by never buying a turntable, cartridge, head amp, record cleaner and all those albums. 😁
@@bobb.9917 Further context…. I’m happy with my AresII. I don’t fool with MC carts, the other stuff is part of it…… kind of like all the stuff you have to keep your house clean😊
Not a fair comment. :-) hahahah fair! Whatever that means. But, yeah sure you could get a lot of records, but granted you have a good table, cartridge, & phono stage. That being said, I have spent far more on records then on a dac… so far. 🤔
After 40 years of collecting albums, decent turntable, phono preamp and cartridges galore I have finally gotten on the streaming bandwagon, when I want to seriously listen my vinyl comes out but the streaming has come a long way in the last few years. Like anything audio you can sure go down a rabbit hole with any aspect. Just enjoy the ride. 😎
As I have written elsewhere; I upgraded after one year and a half going form the Ares II to the Pontus II. Review after review swooned over and over about the Ares II and it's performance/price point ratio. Asked all the time if the Pontus II is worth twice the price as the Ares II. My purely subjective answer is this; if the Ares II costs a theoretical $100 and gets a performance rating of 100, then the Pontus II would cost a theoretical $200 and gets a performance rating of 133-150. Is it worth it--ABSOLUTELY! NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
Why not add a cd transport into the picture and see if they can beat your Oppo. The Cambridge Audio CXC and the Audiolab 600CDT would both be worthy contenders.
I asked Alvin (@Vinshine Audio) to install a second rca coax on CO2 and pull the bnc rca connector. Done. My Pontus ll arrived from China with two rca coax connections. No biggie. Yes, the Pontus is worth the extra cabbage vs an Ares ll in a good audiophile 2 channel system. Desktop, headphone dudes will want the smaller footprint of the Ares. Yes, it’s a kick-ass dac for the cash…whos got the stash.
There's one other DAC technology that merits a mention, in addition to R2R and Delta-Sigma, and that's the "Ring-DAC" technology. Trouble is, the cheapest Ring-DAC available these days is, like, $12,000. The last affordable one that I'm aware of was in the Arcam FMJ CD23, which retailed for about $2500 and doesn't have a digital input.
I owned a Denafrips Pontus II for a short while. I had an Aris II then bought a HiFi Rose RS250 streamer with the intention of running it through the Aris II but the internal dac on RS250 was just better and by a good margin. The Aris II was sold but after awhile the upgrade bug struck again and the logical upgrade was the Pontus II. After it arrived I was amazed by RS250 again. The Pontus II seem to present a wider Soundstage but the RS250 internal dac presented a smoother more detailed sound. I was shocked and the Pontus was sold. The Pontus II is a stunningly beautiful piece of kit but the RS250 is well thought out and hard to beat in the dac department.
I own the Pontus II also for over a year now and I can't agree more! Pontus II sharpens up the signal, it is not apparently bright, but the audio loses relaxed balanced presentation. I have a very transparent system and Pontus II has made everything worse. Thinking of adding Schiit Freya + and engage in tube rolling to fix the problem.
My understanding is that to get the best out of Denafrips DACS you need a DDC…because of that I went for a Holo Audio Spring 3KTE. It doesn’t need a DDC to sound its best! My previous DAC was Ares 2 and I think that one is fantastic! Just don’t go up the line because you will hear the differences if you have the equipment to recreate what a better DAC does.
If using USB, even your Spring 3 would benefit from a DDC. Using the I2S connection (from a streamer or Transport) then neither the Pontus or your Spring would need a DDC.
Not true, I have the Iris DDC with the Ares II, if it is doing anything I cannot hear it. And will be upgrading soon to the Pontus II, and quite honestly, I have serious doubts regarding any noticeable sonic difference in sound. The sources we have today have much of this figured out, if not solved.
@@michaelwright1602 wonderful! It’s great that in your case you do not hear a difference between the Iris and no Iris in the signal chain. I never went for the iris/ares 2 combo because together it’s close to just getting a Pontus II for about the same price. I sold my Ares 2 and skipped the DDC all together and went to for the spring 3KTE. It’s the same price as a the Venus II and I don’t require a DDC. Denafrips sells a DDC for the Venus II and the terminator +. I do have to say that if you do have resolving equipment (amplifier/speakers) that is not entry level and have your speakers pulled out from the wall (2-5ft) then you should be able to hear a difference. I know I hear a big difference between the Ares 2, Gustard A22 and my spring 3KTE. The more I pull the speakers out the greater the soundstage. It’s amazing!
@@cameronrector178 check out golden sound and Ron’s review of the spring 3 KTE. No DDC required. And I love it. It has a PPL included in the DAC. Also I’m not in any way attempting to say that the KTE is “better” then the Venus II. I’m positive they both are excellent DACS. Only reason I went for the KTE is because reviews say no DDC required. For the Denafrips dacs most say their dacs benefit from a ddc. I honestly have not tried a ddc so I cannot speak to it other then I wanted a DAC that already has something included.
I don't think there is a strong argument for a DDC with the Denafrips DACs despite the hype. Certainly GoldenSound made a very strong argument that a DDC with the Terminator Plus could not make any difference.
Excellent, I was thinking about going Pontus II for the I2S connection. I’m considering the Jayz Audio transport, compatible with Pontus I2S. But I’m going in now knowing that the improvement will not be day and night. Defining value is very valuable!
my bet is that if the difference would be day and night, why would one design a machine with several different inputs to start with. - but if you go for a Jays Audio transport (they just released a flagship new model), then I think at that price point it is a bit of a waste at that level not to utilize the I2S output. You could consider the Musician Pegasus - that is priced between the Pontus and Ares, has I2S that matches the Jays and comes from the Denafrips factory anyway.
As an avid viewer here, I don't mind the expensive reviews as long as they don't take over, And as long as Randy reminds people that these reviews help with perspective. One can know how much value one gets from cheap audio better if they know how it compares to expensive equipment.
Randy, I don’t base my hifi purchases on the law of diminishing returns. It’s my belief that when you are seriously involved in a hobby *everything you’re doing and buying* is beyond the law of diminishing returns. That’s what a hobby is! It’s basically the definition of “hobby.” I love what you do because we hobbyists have budgets-often limited-and we want to get the best sound we can within our budgets. But, once we are considering, say, a pair of speakers that cost $1000, we’re beyond limited returns. From there on it’s a set of purchases that a non-hobbyist who goes into Target for a sound bar will never understand.
Law of diminishing returns has an essential aspect to it.. Time. Ideally your chosen 1000usd speakers punch above its price but.. if those perform just as good as 750 usd speakers but can do it for twice the time.. well you got a winner.
Thanks! Hey Randy great video as always, just FYI you can get a BNC to RCA adapter on Amazon for just a few bucks. Also if your using an RPI streamer you can get I2S from the 40 pin connector, so there you go just salved two of your connector issues LOL.
Denafrips makes great gear, just WAY Out of my Price Bracket; I'm happily running a SMSL SU-9 which was $440 US since I was an early adopter. It feeds my single-ended Tube Amp while my balanced output feeds my Schiit Amplifier & NAD Receiver: Sundara & Mangird Tea headphones & Linn Kan Mk.1 Stand Speakers with SVS 3000 Micro Subwoofer. Keep up the Great Work! Mahalo.
The Su-9 is a great value DAC. It's a few steps up from the entry level DACs in resolution, smoothness, and SQ presentation while not falling substantially behind DACs near $1K. I have it feeding my Gustard H20 hp amp driving HFM Arya SEs. It's a good value option still, IMO.
I bought the Denafrips Pontus 2 ,it punches way above its price point. The more transparent and revealing your spkrs , the more you gonna get out of it. The imaging , soundstage , micro details and natural ( analogue ) sound signature is awesome. I only listen to Apple Music using the USB input ( I think the masters are very consistent and of high quality ). Later I would buy their Iris DDC and try the I2S connection. Finally the Willsenton R800i with rolled tubes is another great product that is great for the $. Chi fi has def come a very long way.
- It's in your head. (placebo effect) - Peoples can't differentiate DACs in a blind test, and measurements show that there is no conclusive sonic differences between good dacs. - Sounding "analogue" make no sense, all sound are analogue sound waves, you never heard "digital" sound in your life.
Aries II is a just a bit south of $850 with the way the dollar has been fluctuating lately. Worth every penny, like Randy says, it will reset your brain to what great audio should sound like
I love my Pontus 2. Definitely my endgame DAC. I mostly listen to vinyl and the Pontus gets me closest to an analog sound within my price range. Optical connections have the most jitter. I avoid it if possible. Multiple optical inputs don't belong on a DAC of this level. Get better sources that don't use the worst possible digital connection like Toslink Optical.
Ya got bit by the bug! I've been enjoying the heck out of my Pontus II DAC with Iris DDC combo connected by I²S for a few months. My previous digital front end was an Oppo UDP-205 universal disc player with ESS 9038 chipset which is a fine performer. Give the Pontus II / Iris about 6 weeks to burn in. Between 4 and 6 weeks the sound transforms dramatically for the better. By far worth the difference in price from the Ares II.
Nice review again, both was on my list, thanks for giving an exact opinion. I wish the Ares would have a BNC - british gear often have it, like my exposure 3010s2 cd player. J2 has a great look, hard to let the wooden case and the nice colora go :/
Hey Randy beware the denafrips cannot safely output to the rca and xlr outputs simultaneously. Bad things will happen. It even says it in the manual. I guess its ok if you have only single ended amps or just balanced. However, if you also have both you have to unplug one set of outputs while you use the other. Why a company charging the money they are for a product didn't consider this I don't understand it. How hard would it have been to add an output selector in 2022????
that looks like a BMF !! 😆 me Burson Composer is my favorite dac love rolling 4x dual discrete op-amps lets me fine to the sound ! And its a PreAmp with a REMOTE !! great job thanks Ran the audio man
As an Ares II owner, I’ve checked out lots of Pontus II comparisons and they consistently have the same consensus: everything that the Ares II does…just a bit better. Granted this makes total sense given the power/layout/R2R upgrades and price difference, however, it’s not often clear just how much better. Not being able to audition it at a dealer and with no return policy, I wish a reviewer would give a percentage or numerical difference to help define “a bit” a bit better. If you had to put a percentage or number on how much better things like soundstage, imaging, detail, and holographic is with the Pontus II vs the Ares II what would it be? 10% better vs 25% better would be helpful impression info when justifying the difference in spending. (System context: nearfield, LS50 Meta, Musical Fidelity M5si, and using a Denafrips Iris DDC into the Ares II)
Randy, you bring up a bit a good point; when these dacs get more expensive, they should have more coaxial and even optical input connection options (like the J2).
You need to get/buy the Gustard R26 ladder dac. It's better than any of the Denafrips stuff, it's said to be better than any dac under $3500 and some parts of it better than even the Denafrips Terminator.
Whenever I watch this channels vids,He always takes forever to get to the actual review.. he’s literally taking the time to explain what a Dac is for a Dac at this price range, like? But at least he has time clips
Hey man I really enjoy your videos. Question, can you plug the DAC to the computer, then use line level inputs to plug to amp? Or does the amp need a USB input for direct audio signal?
I remember when stand alone DACs, in boxes as big as a 200 wpc amp, were sold for 2k and more in the 90s. to pay 2k for a dac in this age and day is the zenith of m-o-r-o-n-e-r-y 😁
Excellent video, it sounds like if one more willing to set up I2S with the Pontus in a true high end system it would make a big difference. In other words not really cheap audio. Keep up the good work.❤
Like seeing more Denafrips reviews on the 'tube. I own an Ares II and after selling my LSiM 703s will be ordering a Pontus II. I'd love it if you happen to get your hands on a Hades & Thallo from Denafrips so you could review the entire stack / ecosystem.
@@ufarkingicehole they were unused at the moment, used to be surrounds and installed 702s on the wall in their place. Now planning to sell all LSiMs and buy Forte IVs for LR and reference premier for effects channels. I find myself listening to wayyyy 2CH music than watching movies these days (50, kids gone, fiancé not too in to movies). In a dedicated treated space. Thought about ditching all multi-channel stuff but not sure I’m there yet.
@@trevorparmer5231 what are you running in the front? I have the 702s, center, and 705s. I haven't found anything better under $5kish that beats the 705s with Aperion super tweeters .
@@ufarkingicehole 707s, 706c center, 702 f/x surround. Considering selling the lot and buying Klipsch Forte IV for LR. Currently using Anthem AVM 70/NAD C298. If I switch to Forte I’ll likely swap the C298 out for a Thallo. Thought about buying a Pass Labs INT-25 and just going 2CH but not sure on that….
I just got the Musician Aquarius DAC, which was also built by the same Denafrips manufacturer. i.e. sister brands...Sounds more transparent than Venus II and was a few HKD dollars cheaper (based in HK dealer quoted prices). Same R2R board and transformer (one instead of two as in Venus). Havent owned any Denafrips DACs but from my auditions in HK dealers, Musician aquarius sounds faster, more swift, more transparent, while the mid vocals are not as dense. Bass is also a little lighter than Venus. As far as I know, the higher up the Denafrips models, the more dynamic and heavier bass are their DACs...
You will notice dramatic differences in sound quality as you begin to accept four figure price tags for dacs. Especially if you have bluetooth earbuds and mp3 quality audio helping you to get through mowing lawns after work to pay for it.
Appreciate your insights Randy. Do you think a higher end DAC (like the Ares 2 or Pontus 2) has as much affect on the sound of music from CDs as it does for the sound of music that is streamed? I ask because I spend much more of my listening time on CDs than on streaming.
I2s sounds like a headache considering there is no standard and the fact that they are pinned differently. I ended up with the Gheshelli J2 with the Padauk wood and clear plastic similar to the one you showed but different wood. Couldn't be happier. I had an iFi but returned it for the J2. Combined with the SMSL SA400, which is more power than I need but that's never a bad thing IMO. Not sure why SMSL set the fan to not kick in until it reaches 65C which is HOT. Lucky if you go into the service menu you can change this. I set it to 52C. After long sessions, it stays at 54/55C, which is much better as computer CPUs start throttling at 60C so unsure why SMSL set the fan out of the box to not kick in until 65C. For speakers, I got the ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52 Bookshelf Speakers. Just checked and they are 30 percent off on Amazon (489) which is a very good deal. They do need break in time but once they do, the balance and imaging is amazing. For movies/TV I have the Sony HT-A7000, 300W wireless sub, and the new rears which are just 2 smaller 90W A9's that can run on battery for 10 hours or 90 minutes on a 10 minute charge. As you can imagine, speaker placement is amazing due to true wireless and they can be calibrated with a push of a button. I have an optical cord going from my Samsung to the Gheshelli DAC. This way I can. Use them with movies/TV after 0laying around with the delays so everything is in synch. The Sony setup by itself sound amazing for the few 5.1 SACDs I have but for stereo sou d the Elac's win every day of the week. Both the Elac's and Gheshelli we're purchased based.on your recommendation and I couldn't be happier with the combo.
It not a headache at all if you use a Denafrips DDC then there won't be any problems at all. It only becomes complicated if you're using another piece of equipment that doesn't use I2s-A for the HDMI port or I2s-C for the RJ-45 port.
Hi Randy. Love your videos. Hoping you can help me with some thoughts on how next to upgrade my system. Currently I am using the Bluesound Node --> Rega Elex-R --> Elac Uni-Fi UB52. What would you recommend to add next? We have a very similar taste in music. I would appreciate your help. Cheers.
As Brian Romska (from a really cool country I guess!!?🙂) wrote earlier.. This is too expensive for my taste! But... I love the review and video anyway. We are not here only to find cheap good stuff. We love hifi and its (in my opinion) very cool to see some more high end stuff once in a while🙂 This dac costs as much as my main system atm, but hey! I. Am. Climbing! 😁🇸🇪
Hi, Just joined your channel, love all that you do, but I must say, you are a funny guy, I watch your channel for all the electrical goods but love the fun aspect you bring, great videos, 👍 👌 😀
Considering Denafrips or the JNOG2 from Geshelli Labs. Curious your comparison findings between Denafrips, Topping, and the Geshelli Labs AKM JNOG per sonic experience not so much feature comparison.
I picked up a review unit Denafrips Terminator Plus from another reviewer second hand and, despite the price, I do not regret it. The sound is just - right - with whatever partnering equipment I use. I will never need another DAC and it let me hear what my speakers are really capable off. So I guess I'm potentially saving money in that I no longer have any desire to change my 15 year old speakers. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
@@johnratcliffe6438 Nope. I find the treble pure and sweet without harshness or glare. Certainly I use it with a 300b SET amp which would offset brightness but I also use it with a 215 w/channel class A/B Kinki studio amp and hear no brightness there either. I find it perfectly balanced throughout the frequency range. Hope that helps. My sources are an Auralic Aries G2, a Clearaudio Performance turntable with a Musical Fidelity MX Vynl and an Oppo Blu-ray player used with an I2S converter. Edit. Oops. The turntable is of course irrelevant but the other two go through the DAC, the Oppo via I2S and the streamer via USB.
@@jimfarrell4635 Perfect, thanks Jim. That's really helpful. I currently have Ares II and Iris, but wish to upgrade and am wondering whether to go Pontus and Hermes, or just go straight to the top.
My Gawd !! Expensive DAC is 85 per Cent Preamplifier with DsP with an Improve Power supply and Improve Signal Delivery Minimizing Cross Talk, Minimizing Distortion better Parts better Circuitry and Lastly lowest Jitter sound it makes, a blind Person Cant tell the difference, I rather be blind to have a DAC .Its like a Essential oil Therapeutic Oil which live its Marketing Hype through Exaggeration of Stories.
I love my Ares II. But the difference between the Ares II and my Allo Boss which cost about $600 less was not huge, wasnt slight but was it $600? idk. I kept the ares though cause I figured, what the heck, sounds phenomenal, this is not something I will replace anytime soon if ever and they seem to keep their value. The pontus and terminator are imo for people with systems that are no compromise or extremely revealing systems focused on certain types of music. Id say for most, the Ares II is an endgame DAC.
@@CyBorekPL I use optical in from my LG tv for CZcams music. So most likely it works but i cant speak for delay. Id reach out directly to denafrips, they are a mom and pop operation, you'll probably be speaking to the owner Alvin.
Killer transports have the AES output, allowing the user to place the DAC at a much longer distance without signal loss it is like having a balanced connection. The Pontis is the better choice if you think you will also do a transport upgrade. I have the Pontis and Jay's audio transport a great pairing but there are many other great combinations as well.
Denafrips Pontus 2 www.denafrips.com/pontus
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I'm thinking about buying the Audiolab 6000CDT. Would you be interested in doing a review on it if I ship it to you? You can ship it back to me afterwards.
Dynamic range of the Pontus 2 is 121dB. Pretty sure the best DACs in the world right now have a dynamic range of 125dB. So the Pontus is right up there.
Funny side note: 121dB is 23dB shy of 144dB (the dynamic range of a 24 bit signal) So even the best DACs in the world don't/can't fully reproduce the dynamic range of a 24 bit signal. Not that it matters. I doubt you're listening to your music at a volume louder than a gunshot.
@Audio Jack, prime day,the 6000cdt on sale for $489 with an additional $150 off if you apply for the prime store credit card and are accepted!
Hi Randy, for those of us who are truly on a tight budget, the price difference between a Gishelli J2 AKM vs the Denafrips Ares II is substantial. I understand that there are definitive differences between the chip delta sigma construct vs the R2R. That said, both you and almost all other content creators rave over the Gishelli J2 AKM matching or exceeding their $1,000 delta sigma counterparts. And, you comment in this video that the Gishelli is your second favorite DAC to the Ares II. So, is it possible you could do a dac to dac review between the two explaining why or why not the $500 price difference might be justified to us working audiophiles who need to hear it from the cheapaudioman? Thanks
Great review, I appreciate this as a Ares II owner. I like how you review more expensive gear from time to time to have more experience to be able to recommend cheaper alternatives.
I also owe Ares ii but somehow I feel it has more relax on top end. just a bit more warmer on my Dali's
Ares ii/Enyo owner also. Love it❤
Agree the Pontus 2 is for better for higher end 2 channel systems.
The I2S connection handles SACD as native DSD rather than PCM so if you have I2S outputs from your SACD player you will get DSD playback as the SACD signal is fully exposed.
This dacs makes a big difference for headphones?
How do you come to the conclusion that "the Pontus II is for better for higher en 2 channel system" ? Do you think it's better than an SMSL SU-1? Why? And do you think you would you ear any difference in a blind test?
“Hi value” can apply to not so cheap equipment. You do you Randy, I appreciate your reviews for any and all components.
I appreciate that!
Yeah Randy is high value and not so cheap!
@@cheapaudioman Comparative value is a thing we all can appreciate. I think under 2k for the front end components is about as high as many of us can go per item. That being said I dont mind reasonable aspirational gear to buy being shown as it lets us be informed about the most common reasonable step up from the sub grand market.
Randy, I like your suggestuon for an Ares 3 DAC. Good video, BTW!
Welcome down the rabbit hole Randy! I agree, you can get very good performance for not a lot of money. But when you start going high end, you get benefits such as detail without graininess, smooth even. Thats when music start to become special.
I got Pontus 2 with Hermes ddc and I can say when I listen to my music I’m on heaven with my kefR11 speakers insane details
Cheers buddy:)
Absolut killer combo. The hermes gets even more soundstage, smoother sound and better imaging out of the pontus 2. Always, if your system is resolving enough etc. Also recommend the I2S connecton. And Pontus 2 needs 200 h of Burn in. After that, absolut spectacular. Hermes plus Pontus: match in heaven.
I paid $830 last week for the Aries ii. Got it 4 days later. Love the thing.
I bought the Denafrips Ares II (based in part on your review) and love it.
I have had the Denafrips Pontus II for 8 months now. It's been wonderful. I have it hooked up to a Soundaware D300 streamer (Roon endpoint) via the I2S (HDMI) cable. The pinout is compatible. This combination works so well sonically. It's wonderful detail in the upper registers with rich full bass in the lower end.
"This combination works so well sonically. It's wonderful detail in the upper registers with rich full bass in the lower end." compared to what?
Why do you need a comparison? Take it at face value, after all, it’s an opinion, not a lab test, sheet.
@@izumispa2993 because what you are claiming to hear is not humanly possible, that is why.
@@Lauren080508 Which measurements capture imaging ability or realism in tone?
@@tommccarthy3385 realism...dynamic range, imaging mostly depends on the headphone or speakers you are using, and that is true, imaging can not be measured well....yet. but telling me a human ear can measure sound better than a precise electronic devices?. please
Great review Randy! The Ares II was also a game changer for myself. The chip DACs were killing my ears. Yes, they sounded great, but after an hour or so, or even less, my ears were bleeding... They all sounded the same to me... And then I said screw it, I need to hear this Denafrips DAC everyone is raving about... It is magical, it allowed me to finally sit and enjoy my music. I enjoyed the Ares II so much, I bought their Iris DDC, Hades preamp and Thallo amplifier to go with my KLH Model 5 speakers. Time to upgrade to the Pontus II, and then my audio journey should be over. At least for awhile. Your take on the connections was spot on too, something folks should take into consideration. Keep up the GREAT work!
Good job randy! I definitely have no interest in a dac that costs more than a few hundred bucks, but still nice to get your take on it, thanks again!
Thanks 👍
It depends on the rest of your system if you have revealing system the denafrips ares and pontus can be good difference
I bought based on your ares 2 video, cost is 800+ USD for a while now. Very happy! Stopping here for now….😁
I got the Pontus II in January. It had static in signal. I was like, WHAT?!? Contacted Vinshine (Denifrips) and they had me flash the USB with files downloaded from their website with my laptop. A bit of a pain, drivers were not signed and windows doesn’t like that anymore. Had to do special windows boot up. Got past that, but flash didn’t fix it. Dang! Then they sent me a new USB II board… the one that’s in the Terminator. 😎 Put that in (it was easy, plug and play) and now it sounds sublime. Took about 3 weeks to work it all out. Vinshine does support their products and they are very responsive. They had a guy in Buda TX send me the board FedEx. Good people. I LOVE this DAC!! I’m running it with:
Willsenton R8 Stock tubes
BlueSound node 2i
Heresy IVs
I absolutely love my Pontus II. It's a game changer in my system.
It replaced my Cambridge CXN v2.
Totally replaced the CXN v2? Or do you feed the Pontus II with the CXN v2? I have a CXN v2.
I was considering the CXN v2. But was told the Chord Qutest will sound more accurate
The Ares II has made me spend so much money on hifi. I like it more than other dacs. I like it more than the dacs in AVRs. So I have made a separate home theatre system and separate music listening system as a way to compromise and not get rid of my ares II dac. I like the noise elimination of the XLR connections so naturally I made a purifi amp to go with my lovely Ares II. All these separates and HT systems in the same area have given me a ground loop that I have finally solved but when it comes down to it I can make up reasons why I can change everything else except the Ares II dac. It makes my 15 year old paradigm monitor 7s sound so good.
One benefit of the Pontus II over the Ares II is the i2s connection. Not found on cheaper Dac's. A lot of people will not need it or use it. BUT! If you are into SACD's then the benefit is great. CD/SACD stand alone players play cds and can be hooked up with external dac's, SACD playback is subjected to be played only through the unit and not an external dac or maybe so! Enters the Oppo bdp-105D with HDMI out, cabling hdmi to i2s to i2s input on the Pontus II and here we go it takes the SACD playback to another level of sound.
Must admit I have not heard it myself so ! I have the Oppo hooked up to RME adi-2 fs dac ( which does not have the i2s connection )
The i2s could be for some regarding SACD a revelation ! Would be worth a look/listen if you still have the Pontus II on hand, compare the the two. regards.
"I have not heard it myself." 😂😂😂
I actually use the Pontus 2, and the balanced output really helped get the best out of my system in very real ways. The output voltage was much better for my pre-amp which is low gain, and overall made my system work much better together.
could you give an objective proof of your claim?
@@Lauren080508 . I am just referring to the fact that the balanced output voltage is close to 4.4 volts which is about double the unbalanced voltage. That is helpful for my Schiit freya plus which has unity gain (O db) on the solid state output stage. Simply matches better with the freya or other low gain balanced preamps. Wouldn’t be needed with a more typical 10-14db of gain but nice for my situation.
@@insurrectionindustries1706 I see , I understand your logic, but at the end , will it make a discernible difference in your music, I have a feeling will not, but you could prove me wrong
Yes, the difference is not subtle, but that is simply due to my system and the specific voltage gain, input and output impedances of my components. These are real engineering factors that change the way my system operates which is clearly audible, but for people with different equipment such an integrated amp it would likely make no difference at all. It’s just important to know how components interact with each other
I went to Denafrips to buy the Ares II after watching your review a while ago. It was out of stock so I stepped up to the Pontus II. Holy schiit! My jaw was dropped and stayed on the floor for a month at least. I was using the DAC in the Bluesound Node with NAD C298 power amp and KEF LS50. The difference Pontus II made was even bigger than my last speakers upgrade (from Elac Debut Reference). I had no idea DAC can make big differences like this. But I agree with your take on the available inputs. They should take out at least one AES input for another optical.
It was shocking, I should have bought the Pontus right out of the gate too... I kick myself now, but will order one here in a few weeks. The Ares II totally changed how I listen to, and enjoy music. It was that profound.
@@michaelwright1602 Haha I don't know about upgrading from Ares to Ponus. Maybe you should go higher haha.
@@michaelwright1602 I bought Ares II and Iris two weeks ago and am disappointed. Flat image, not enough resolution or detail.
Trying to decide whether to replace with Pontus or Yggy LiM.
Nothing wrong with covering some aspirational gear from time to time! I love the shark week analogy. Part of enjoying your channel is living vicariously through you and hearing about the gear that comes through your door. You've always stayed grounded in the approach to reviewing more costly gear with a "but is it worth it" perspective.
Invest once is my philosophy. If it's that good and you get many years of enjoyment out of it then you're in a better place than spending less and chasing better sound by turning your gear over more frequently.
Well done. Your ears are spot on. I also have the Pontus 2 and also the Terminator Plus. Believe it or not, I prefer the Pontus a lot of the time… It has character, kicks ass!
I owned the Pontus II for about 6 months (Sept 2021 - March 2022). In all honesty, I couldn't tell any difference between it and my Topping D90 (non-MQA)... except for the price. I tried all kinds of tweaks, but nothing ever really made a difference to my ears. A few reviewers told me the real benefits of the P2 could be heard with headphones. After 5 years working in talk radio, I can't stand those things clamped on my dome now. I ended up selling both my P2 and D90. I bought the FiiO K9 Pro ESS and have been quite pleased with it. I think I'm done with dac shopping for a few years. Excellent video, mate!!
I recently, April 2022, purchased the Ares II and the price was $878 U.S. in total. It used to be $750 or so but those days are over. It’s nearly $900 now. I’ve also had buffer overrun issues with the optical connections resulting in occasional pops, similar to a vinyl pop. The solution was to switch to USB, which wasn’t my preferred method.
The Ares II is very enjoyable to listen to and since there is no return policy I’ll be keeping it. Just wanted to share some additional real-world experience that it’s nearly $900 and the optical connections can have issues depending on your source.
Thanks and keep up the good work.
I replaced a Mytek Brooklyn Dac with the Pontus ii a few months ago.
The Pontus let’s digital music sound like Analog. Lush soundstage. Vocals are clear yet non fatiguing.
I find myself sitting and Listening to multiple albums .
The Mytek was a great versatile machine. But, in no way is the sound signature comparable.
I’m sure I’ll pony up the $ for the Terminator ii .
But for now, I’m completely happy with the Pontus.
Felt exactly the same way about the ares compared to everything else I had heard
i use a mytek liberty dac but want my next dac to be denafrips or chord. this is good info. thanks.
@@cheapaudioman I find my new Ares II with Iris DDC to be completely underwhelming. Disappointing.
@@johnratcliffe6438really?
Thank you for this review Randy. I enjoy your channel for value oriented audio gear. But I also enjoy other channels that review the higher end. I may never buy, but I enjoy a little window shopping. Keep up the great work! 👍👍👍
I agree 100%. It seems Randy is have great fun tasting all of the goodies. Like a kid in a candy store. I'm envious. Have a great day Gino!
@@welderfixer 👍
That summary was spot on.. Shouldn’t be shy on RCA coaxial connections for sure. Connections seem to be an issue on a lot of equipment these days; missing receptacles, missing tape loops, pre-outs missing main ins missing, the list goes on and on.
It’s all part of that over exaggerated effort to minimize the audio chain and associated costs that can be marketing blurbed away. The manufacturers assume they know what the average customer is looking for at every price point or want you to spend more on the next level up. The consumer is constantly assaulted and insulted by what the capitalist market will bear to maximize profit margin and only giving the illusion of value to the customer, not actual value. Sometimes they get it right, but it’s not the common occurrence, and if it happens, it doesn’t stay that way for a long!
Man ain't that the truth!
A friend of mine lent me the Pontus II to listen to and compare to my Ares II. The Pontus II is better. I am going to live with the Ares after returning the Pontus. Not sure how long I’ll last. One youve heard greatness, its hard to unhear.
Randy, you represent an honest “see both sides” point of view, which is getting rarer by the hour in this divided world we inhabit. I began and have stuck with your channel as you’ve grown, and it’s been great to see. You have been an Everyman Audiophile and refreshingly not disconnected from middle-class father reality, well, until spending $1800 on a DAC is suggested as significant audio system ‘value’. Where most people wouldn’t spend that on a set of SPEAKERS, arguably the most important piece, I can’t relate in the slightest. The DIY CSS Critons, which I bought due to your enthusiasm-they are truly awesome and have brought incredible improvement and joy - for HALF of what this DAC costs. I’m sorry, it’s in the 1% realm with expensive cables, risers and power conditioners. Your loyalty and passion for the Aries II was already on the high end.
It’s unfortunate to see, but this looks more like you are trying to grow beyond the confines of the original CheapAudioMan. By seriously reviewing this segment of gear, you’re potentially risking alienation of the ‘value’ crowd that has supported you channel. IMO, $1800 DAC’s are better suited for 70k Ron at NRD.
Now that you are reviewing in the $1800 range we need the cheapaudioman take on the Chord Qutest. Love Denafrips Ares 2 on my speaker setup but picked up a Qutest for my headphone set up. Of corse I had to try it on my speakers…
Two examples of dacs making a big positive difference, while at the same time sounding completely different than each other.
I have a qutest on my headphone setup and adore it.
Realize that for a couple of bucks, you can get an RCA to BNC adaptor, so you can have an additional SPIDF connection...just sayn'... and yes, I love my Pontus 2...
Love my Pontus II also. You are right, you still get 2 coax inputs, one is on BNC, but you can get an rca-bnc adaptor for a few bucks, or use a coaxial cable with rca on one end and BNC on the other end. All you are losing is one optical input for 2 aes inputs and importantly for me an I2S input I use for SACD from my Oppo via a $60 HDMI to I2S breakout box.
Hi Randy, saw your comparo for ares II and Pontus II. Re: optical connections, I have used optic splitters that solve the problem of having only 1 toslink input on the dac . They are inexpensive. BTW, I purchased Heresy IV's because they are smallish and Don't block my windows. They do however require a subwoofer.
The BNC connector input is electrically the same as the S/PDIF RCA, you can just put an RCA to BNC adaptor on the end of your cable and be good to go.
Happy with my E30 but I like your take on expensive gear, keep it up 👍 ignore the haters, why wouldn't you want to know how expensive stuff compares to cheaper?!
appreciate that
Because they have been measured. Expensive DACs are snake oil/placebo, many scientific test have concluded that you can't differenciate them in a blind test.
Measurements also show this again and again.
@@hypnoz7871 I appreciate measurements too, like I said I use Topping E30 which is objectively a great DAC and to me it sounds great. But there are other channels for objective/measurement reviews (which I also follow, maybe even more), but I don't come here expecting that.
I agree that the point of diminishing returns may edge in for some here. My listening to a friend’s Pontus and the Ares2 is part of what motivated me to purchase the Ares 2……standing as the most significant and pleasurable DAC upgrade I’ve had in years. The thing is built like a tank though I just could not get motivated enough during critical listening to thrown in for the Pontus….instead electing for a balanced pre-amp to pair with the Ares.
Nice review. Your British Audiophile buddy recommends I2S inputs coupled with a digital re-clocker like Denafrips Iris for best sound.
Hey Randy, nice review. I think it’s fair to say most people don’t have 2k to spend on a DAC. The folks that do are probably the kind who seek the best sources and digital processing. So that would be a dedicated streamer and perhaps a digital to digital converter (eg. Denafrips Gaia) to reclock the signal using the I2S (usually I squared S btw). By the time you get to the amp, you’re probably up to 5k spend.
The only input they’re likely to use optical on would be the TV, as that’s generally all they got. It’s the worst option. So I would say Denafrips knows its customers’ needs and provides the optimum inputs for the market segment.
Using DAC's I2S connected to DDC's I2S is the biggest jump on the SQ of the digital audio realm, hands down. It took proper pairing and good literacy of audio gears used though.
Why do you think that? Did you think this makes a difference also for headphones?
Just ordered an ares 2, thanks to you my man!
hey i´m randy and i was the cheap audio man
Randy the "NOT SO CHEAP AUDIO MAN" .
there it is. you were the first one to comment that. Only took 7 minutes
That's what happens now that he's a big wig with his 100k+ subscribers.
Yup sold out for the expensive stuff that doesn’t have affiliate links. It’s a bold strategy. Going to see how it works
@@cheapaudioman In all fairness you did mention 12 $ DACs. Wishing you much sucess with the channel. I do enjoy it..
@@cheapaudioman that made me chuckle
I will buy a whole bunch of albums with that $1700😊
Good point. 👍🏼…but think of all the money, FUSSING and TIME I saved by never buying a turntable, cartridge, head amp, record cleaner and all those albums. 😁
@@bobb.9917 Further context…. I’m happy with my AresII. I don’t fool with MC carts, the other stuff is part of it…… kind of like all the stuff you have to keep your house clean😊
@@louiesipes2257 Difference being that house cleaning products are not half the cost of it.
Not a fair comment. :-) hahahah fair! Whatever that means. But, yeah sure you could get a lot of records, but granted you have a good table, cartridge, & phono stage.
That being said, I have spent far more on records then on a dac… so far. 🤔
After 40 years of collecting albums, decent turntable, phono preamp and cartridges galore I have finally gotten on the streaming bandwagon, when I want to seriously listen my vinyl comes out but the streaming has come a long way in the last few years. Like anything audio you can sure go down a rabbit hole with any aspect. Just enjoy the ride. 😎
As I have written elsewhere; I upgraded after one year and a half going form the Ares II to the Pontus II. Review after review swooned over and over about the Ares II and it's performance/price point ratio. Asked all the time if the Pontus II is worth twice the price as the Ares II. My purely subjective answer is this; if the Ares II costs a theoretical $100 and gets a performance rating of 100, then the Pontus II would cost a theoretical $200 and gets a performance rating of 133-150. Is it worth it--ABSOLUTELY! NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
The Pontus is $257 to the Aries $100
Why not add a cd transport into the picture and see if they can beat your Oppo. The Cambridge Audio CXC and the Audiolab 600CDT would both be worthy contenders.
I asked Alvin (@Vinshine Audio) to install a second rca coax on CO2 and pull the bnc rca connector. Done. My Pontus ll arrived from China with two rca coax connections. No biggie. Yes, the Pontus is worth the extra cabbage vs an Ares ll in a good audiophile 2 channel system. Desktop, headphone dudes will want the smaller footprint of the Ares. Yes, it’s a kick-ass dac for the cash…whos got the stash.
There's one other DAC technology that merits a mention, in addition to R2R and Delta-Sigma, and that's the "Ring-DAC" technology. Trouble is, the cheapest Ring-DAC available these days is, like, $12,000. The last affordable one that I'm aware of was in the Arcam FMJ CD23, which retailed for about $2500 and doesn't have a digital input.
I owned a Denafrips Pontus II for a short while. I had an Aris II then bought a HiFi Rose RS250 streamer with the intention of running it through the Aris II but the internal dac on RS250 was just better and by a good margin. The Aris II was sold but after awhile the upgrade bug struck again and the logical upgrade was the Pontus II. After it arrived I was amazed by RS250 again. The Pontus II seem to present a wider Soundstage but the RS250 internal dac presented a smoother more detailed sound. I was shocked and the Pontus was sold. The Pontus II is a stunningly beautiful piece of kit but the RS250 is well thought out and hard to beat in the dac department.
I own the Pontus II also for over a year now and I can't agree more! Pontus II sharpens up the signal, it is not apparently bright, but the audio loses relaxed balanced presentation. I have a very transparent system and Pontus II has made everything worse. Thinking of adding Schiit Freya + and engage in tube rolling to fix the problem.
Update: after applying room correction in HQPlayer, overall sound signature improved to some extent, it's now more natural and less edgy....
Wow, the cheap audio man is no longer cheap. Super high quality DAC shoot out. Thank you.
well I'm doing a $200 dac amp tomorrow... so yeah. let me know your recommendations on new names.
My understanding is that to get the best out of Denafrips DACS you need a DDC…because of that I went for a Holo Audio Spring 3KTE. It doesn’t need a DDC to sound its best! My previous DAC was Ares 2 and I think that one is fantastic! Just don’t go up the line because you will hear the differences if you have the equipment to recreate what a better DAC does.
If using USB, even your Spring 3 would benefit from a DDC. Using the I2S connection (from a streamer or Transport) then neither the Pontus or your Spring would need a DDC.
Not true, I have the Iris DDC with the Ares II, if it is doing anything I cannot hear it. And will be upgrading soon to the Pontus II, and quite honestly, I have serious doubts regarding any noticeable sonic difference in sound. The sources we have today have much of this figured out, if not solved.
@@michaelwright1602 wonderful! It’s great that in your case you do not hear a difference between the Iris and no Iris in the signal chain. I never went for the iris/ares 2 combo because together it’s close to just getting a Pontus II for about the same price. I sold my Ares 2 and skipped the DDC all together and went to for the spring 3KTE. It’s the same price as a the Venus II and I don’t require a DDC. Denafrips sells a DDC for the Venus II and the terminator +. I do have to say that if you do have resolving equipment (amplifier/speakers) that is not entry level and have your speakers pulled out from the wall (2-5ft) then you should be able to hear a difference. I know I hear a big difference between the Ares 2, Gustard A22 and my spring 3KTE. The more I pull the speakers out the greater the soundstage. It’s amazing!
@@cameronrector178 check out golden sound and Ron’s review of the spring 3 KTE. No DDC required. And I love it. It has a PPL included in the DAC. Also I’m not in any way attempting to say that the KTE is “better” then the Venus II. I’m positive they both are excellent DACS. Only reason I went for the KTE is because reviews say no DDC required. For the Denafrips dacs most say their dacs benefit from a ddc. I honestly have not tried a ddc so I cannot speak to it other then I wanted a DAC that already has something included.
I don't think there is a strong argument for a DDC with the Denafrips DACs despite the hype. Certainly GoldenSound made a very strong argument that a DDC with the Terminator Plus could not make any difference.
Excellent, I was thinking about going Pontus II for the I2S connection. I’m considering the Jayz Audio transport, compatible with Pontus I2S. But I’m going in now knowing that the improvement will not be day and night. Defining value is very valuable!
my bet is that if the difference would be day and night, why would one design a machine with several different inputs to start with.
- but if you go for a Jays Audio transport (they just released a flagship new model), then I think at that price point it is a bit of a waste at that level not to utilize the I2S output. You could consider the Musician Pegasus - that is priced between the Pontus and Ares, has I2S that matches the Jays and comes from the Denafrips factory anyway.
As an avid viewer here, I don't mind the expensive reviews as long as they don't take over, And as long as Randy reminds people that these reviews help with perspective. One can know how much value one gets from cheap audio better if they know how it compares to expensive equipment.
19:28 There is a "Ares III" now called the Ares 12th. Look forward to hear your opinion on it.
Denafrips' power supplies and R2R ladder network structures are a killer combo. The connection options are a puzzle, though.
Randy, I don’t base my hifi purchases on the law of diminishing returns. It’s my belief that when you are seriously involved in a hobby *everything you’re doing and buying* is beyond the law of diminishing returns. That’s what a hobby is! It’s basically the definition of “hobby.” I love what you do because we hobbyists have budgets-often limited-and we want to get the best sound we can within our budgets. But, once we are considering, say, a pair of speakers that cost $1000, we’re beyond limited returns. From there on it’s a set of purchases that a non-hobbyist who goes into Target for a sound bar will never understand.
Law of diminishing returns has an essential aspect to it.. Time.
Ideally your chosen 1000usd speakers punch above its price but.. if those perform just as good as 750 usd speakers but can do it for twice the time.. well you got a winner.
Thanks! Hey Randy great video as always, just FYI you can get a BNC to RCA adapter on Amazon for just a few bucks. Also if your using an RPI streamer you can get I2S from the 40 pin connector, so there you go just salved two of your connector issues LOL.
Eddie! Thanks so much for your support. I did see that a BNC to RCA existed. Good to know
Denafrips makes great gear, just WAY Out of my Price Bracket; I'm happily running a SMSL SU-9 which was $440 US since I was an early adopter. It feeds my single-ended Tube Amp while my balanced output feeds my Schiit Amplifier & NAD Receiver: Sundara & Mangird Tea headphones & Linn Kan Mk.1 Stand Speakers with SVS 3000 Micro Subwoofer. Keep up the Great Work! Mahalo.
The Su-9 is a great value DAC. It's a few steps up from the entry level DACs in resolution, smoothness, and SQ presentation while not falling substantially behind DACs near $1K. I have it feeding my Gustard H20 hp amp driving HFM Arya SEs. It's a good value option still, IMO.
Who are you and what have you done with cheap Audioman? It would seem that you've contracted the audiophile sickness
I just got my Pontus ii and I love it.
I bought the Denafrips Pontus 2 ,it punches way above its price point. The more transparent and revealing your spkrs , the more you gonna get out of it. The imaging , soundstage , micro details and natural ( analogue ) sound signature is awesome. I only listen to Apple Music using the USB input ( I think the masters are very consistent and of high quality ). Later I would buy their Iris DDC and try the I2S connection. Finally the Willsenton R800i with rolled tubes is another great product that is great for the $. Chi fi has def come a very long way.
- It's in your head. (placebo effect)
- Peoples can't differentiate DACs in a blind test, and measurements show that there is no conclusive sonic differences between good dacs.
- Sounding "analogue" make no sense, all sound are analogue sound waves, you never heard "digital" sound in your life.
Aries II is a just a bit south of $850 with the way the dollar has been fluctuating lately. Worth every penny, like Randy says, it will reset your brain to what great audio should sound like
I love my Pontus 2. Definitely my endgame DAC. I mostly listen to vinyl and the Pontus gets me closest to an analog sound within my price range. Optical connections have the most jitter. I avoid it if possible. Multiple optical inputs don't belong on a DAC of this level. Get better sources that don't use the worst possible digital connection like Toslink Optical.
oops...i thought i unsubscribed from darko audio
Ya got bit by the bug! I've been enjoying the heck out of my Pontus II DAC with Iris DDC combo connected by I²S for a few months. My previous digital front end was an Oppo UDP-205 universal disc player with ESS 9038 chipset which is a fine performer. Give the Pontus II / Iris about 6 weeks to burn in. Between 4 and 6 weeks the sound transforms dramatically for the better. By far worth the difference in price from the Ares II.
There is a digital volume control in the Denafrips application, you may need a firmware update to activate it.
Nice review again, both was on my list, thanks for giving an exact opinion. I wish the Ares would have a BNC - british gear often have it, like my exposure 3010s2 cd player. J2 has a great look, hard to let the wooden case and the nice colora go :/
Hey Randy beware the denafrips cannot safely output to the rca and xlr outputs simultaneously. Bad things will happen. It even says it in the manual. I guess its ok if you have only single ended amps or just balanced. However, if you also have both you have to unplug one set of outputs while you use the other. Why a company charging the money they are for a product didn't consider this I don't understand it. How hard would it have been to add an output selector in 2022????
that looks like a BMF !! 😆
me Burson Composer is my favorite dac love rolling 4x dual discrete op-amps lets me fine to the sound ! And its a PreAmp with a REMOTE !!
great job thanks Ran the audio man
As an Ares II owner, I’ve checked out lots of Pontus II comparisons and they consistently have the same consensus: everything that the Ares II does…just a bit better. Granted this makes total sense given the power/layout/R2R upgrades and price difference, however, it’s not often clear just how much better. Not being able to audition it at a dealer and with no return policy, I wish a reviewer would give a percentage or numerical difference to help define “a bit” a bit better.
If you had to put a percentage or number on how much better things like soundstage, imaging, detail, and holographic is with the Pontus II vs the Ares II what would it be? 10% better vs 25% better would be helpful impression info when justifying the difference in spending. (System context: nearfield, LS50 Meta, Musical Fidelity M5si, and using a Denafrips Iris DDC into the Ares II)
Same here! Trying to figure that out.
me too
Great review, as always. Thanks for talking me back down to just wanting the Ares II.
This answers many of my questions about DACs in general. Good video!
Randy, you bring up a bit a good point; when these dacs get more expensive, they should have more coaxial and even optical input connection options (like the J2).
You need to get/buy the Gustard R26 ladder dac. It's better than any of the Denafrips stuff, it's said to be better than any dac under $3500 and some parts of it better than even the Denafrips Terminator.
Whenever I watch this channels vids,He always takes forever to get to the actual review.. he’s literally taking the time to explain what a Dac is for a Dac at this price range, like? But at least he has time clips
"Expensive Audio Man"
Hey man I really enjoy your videos.
Question, can you plug the DAC to the computer, then use line level inputs to plug to amp? Or does the amp need a USB input for direct audio signal?
I remember when stand alone DACs, in boxes as big as a 200 wpc amp, were sold for 2k and more in the 90s. to pay 2k for a dac in this age and day is the zenith of m-o-r-o-n-e-r-y 😁
Not if you have a system where you can hear the improvements that this R2R DAC offers.
It’s the zenith of ENJOYMENT! 😎
Excellent video, it sounds like if one more willing to set up I2S with the Pontus in a true high end system it would make a big difference. In other words not really cheap audio. Keep up the good work.❤
Like seeing more Denafrips reviews on the 'tube. I own an Ares II and after selling my LSiM 703s will be ordering a Pontus II. I'd love it if you happen to get your hands on a Hades & Thallo from Denafrips so you could review the entire stack / ecosystem.
What did you put in the 703s place?
I currently have the Ares II, Iris DDC, Hades and Thallo driving my KLH Model 5's... All I can say is, "Audio Nirvana". ;-)
@@ufarkingicehole they were unused at the moment, used to be surrounds and installed 702s on the wall in their place. Now planning to sell all LSiMs and buy Forte IVs for LR and reference premier for effects channels. I find myself listening to wayyyy 2CH music than watching movies these days (50, kids gone, fiancé not too in to movies). In a dedicated treated space. Thought about ditching all multi-channel stuff but not sure I’m there yet.
@@trevorparmer5231 what are you running in the front? I have the 702s, center, and 705s. I haven't found anything better under $5kish that beats the 705s with Aperion super tweeters .
@@ufarkingicehole 707s,
706c center, 702 f/x surround. Considering selling the lot and buying Klipsch Forte IV for LR. Currently using Anthem AVM 70/NAD C298. If I switch to Forte I’ll likely swap the C298 out for a Thallo. Thought about buying a Pass Labs INT-25 and just going 2CH but not sure on that….
Ares II has been over $800 for months now, listing as an FYI since the $700 is a pre-inflation price.
Pontus is almost $1,800.
Great review as always Randy. What do you normally use as a streaming source with a DAC like the Aries II?
I just got the Musician Aquarius DAC, which was also built by the same Denafrips manufacturer. i.e. sister brands...Sounds more transparent than Venus II and was a few HKD dollars cheaper (based in HK dealer quoted prices). Same R2R board and transformer (one instead of two as in Venus). Havent owned any Denafrips DACs but from my auditions in HK dealers, Musician aquarius sounds faster, more swift, more transparent, while the mid vocals are not as dense. Bass is also a little lighter than Venus. As far as I know, the higher up the Denafrips models, the more dynamic and heavier bass are their DACs...
You will notice dramatic differences in sound quality as you begin to accept four figure price tags for dacs. Especially if you have bluetooth earbuds and mp3 quality audio helping you to get through mowing lawns after work to pay for it.
Appreciate your insights Randy. Do you think a higher end DAC (like the Ares 2 or Pontus 2) has as much affect on the sound of music from CDs as it does for the sound of music that is streamed? I ask because I spend much more of my listening time on CDs than on streaming.
I really think you’ll love it. I have a bryston bcd 1 and the Pontus to me just smokes it
I2s sounds like a headache considering there is no standard and the fact that they are pinned differently. I ended up with the Gheshelli J2 with the Padauk wood and clear plastic similar to the one you showed but different wood. Couldn't be happier. I had an iFi but returned it for the J2.
Combined with the SMSL SA400, which is more power than I need but that's never a bad thing IMO. Not sure why SMSL set the fan to not kick in until it reaches 65C which is HOT. Lucky if you go into the service menu you can change this. I set it to 52C. After long sessions, it stays at 54/55C, which is much better as computer CPUs start throttling at 60C so unsure why SMSL set the fan out of the box to not kick in until 65C.
For speakers, I got the ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52 Bookshelf Speakers. Just checked and they are 30 percent off on Amazon (489) which is a very good deal. They do need break in time but once they do, the balance and imaging is amazing.
For movies/TV I have the Sony HT-A7000, 300W wireless sub, and the new rears which are just 2 smaller 90W A9's that can run on battery for 10 hours or 90 minutes on a 10 minute charge. As you can imagine, speaker placement is amazing due to true wireless and they can be calibrated with a push of a button.
I have an optical cord going from my Samsung to the Gheshelli DAC. This way I can. Use them with movies/TV after 0laying around with the delays so everything is in synch.
The Sony setup by itself sound amazing for the few 5.1 SACDs I have but for stereo sou d the Elac's win every day of the week. Both the Elac's and Gheshelli we're purchased based.on your recommendation and I couldn't be happier with the combo.
It not a headache at all if you use a Denafrips DDC then there won't be any problems at all. It only becomes complicated if you're using another piece of equipment that doesn't use I2s-A for the HDMI port or I2s-C for the RJ-45 port.
Hi Randy. Love your videos. Hoping you can help me with some thoughts on how next to upgrade my system.
Currently I am using the Bluesound Node --> Rega Elex-R --> Elac Uni-Fi UB52.
What would you recommend to add next?
We have a very similar taste in music.
I would appreciate your help. Cheers.
Sometimes not-so-cheapaudioman lol
As Brian Romska (from a really cool country I guess!!?🙂) wrote earlier.. This is too expensive for my taste! But... I love the review and video anyway. We are not here only to find cheap good stuff. We love hifi and its (in my opinion) very cool to see some more high end stuff once in a while🙂 This dac costs as much as my main system atm, but hey! I. Am. Climbing! 😁🇸🇪
Yay!
Hi,
Just joined your channel, love all that you do, but I must say, you are a funny guy, I watch your channel for all the electrical goods but love the fun aspect you bring, great videos, 👍 👌 😀
I love your videos. Very good stuff Randy. As always.
I've been waiting for this review!
The Pontus crushes the Ares in bass dept. and focus. Not even close.
I’m one of the weirdos that is stepping up to the Pontus from the Ares because of the I2S connection lol.
Great review Randy!!
Excellent, thanks for the heads up and the value comparison's you offered.
Is Randy going to become the NOT SO - Cheapaudioman? Like seeing a little change from the norm!!
Considering Denafrips or the JNOG2 from Geshelli Labs. Curious your comparison findings between Denafrips, Topping, and the Geshelli Labs AKM JNOG per sonic experience not so much feature comparison.
I picked up a review unit Denafrips Terminator Plus from another reviewer second hand and, despite the price, I do not regret it. The sound is just - right - with whatever partnering equipment I use. I will never need another DAC and it let me hear what my speakers are really capable off. So I guess I'm potentially saving money in that I no longer have any desire to change my 15 year old speakers. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
I have read multiple complaints that the T+ is bright. Is that your experience?
@@johnratcliffe6438 Nope. I find the treble pure and sweet without harshness or glare. Certainly I use it with a 300b SET amp which would offset brightness but I also use it with a 215 w/channel class A/B Kinki studio amp and hear no brightness there either. I find it perfectly balanced throughout the frequency range. Hope that helps. My sources are an Auralic Aries G2, a Clearaudio Performance turntable with a Musical Fidelity MX Vynl and an Oppo Blu-ray player used with an I2S converter.
Edit. Oops. The turntable is of course irrelevant but the other two go through the DAC, the Oppo via I2S and the streamer via USB.
@@jimfarrell4635 Perfect, thanks Jim. That's really helpful. I currently have Ares II and Iris, but wish to upgrade and am wondering whether to go Pontus and Hermes, or just go straight to the top.
Thanks for the video, I'm thinking of buying one of the two, but thanks, I'll buy the Ares II with the IRIS. All the best.
$1700 on a dac? It better be able to teleport me to the recording session and/or concert tour.
And also drinks with the band after the show..... $1700 for a Chinese DAC, crazy times....
My Gawd !! Expensive DAC is 85 per Cent Preamplifier with DsP with an Improve Power supply and Improve Signal Delivery Minimizing Cross Talk, Minimizing Distortion better Parts better Circuitry and Lastly lowest Jitter sound it makes, a blind Person Cant tell the difference, I rather be blind to have a DAC .Its like a Essential oil Therapeutic Oil which live its Marketing Hype through Exaggeration of Stories.
I love my Ares II. But the difference between the Ares II and my Allo Boss which cost about $600 less was not huge, wasnt slight but was it $600? idk. I kept the ares though cause I figured, what the heck, sounds phenomenal, this is not something I will replace anytime soon if ever and they seem to keep their value. The pontus and terminator are imo for people with systems that are no compromise or extremely revealing systems focused on certain types of music. Id say for most, the Ares II is an endgame DAC.
What about audio delay on Ares? Can you use optical input for gaming and movies?
@@CyBorekPL I use optical in from my LG tv for CZcams music. So most likely it works but i cant speak for delay. Id reach out directly to denafrips, they are a mom and pop operation, you'll probably be speaking to the owner Alvin.
Killer transports have the AES output, allowing the user to place the DAC at a much longer distance without signal loss it is like having a balanced connection. The Pontis is the better choice if you think you will also do a transport upgrade. I have the Pontis and Jay's audio transport a great pairing but there are many other great combinations as well.