Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
I tried Steve Albini's Great Advice on Guitar Recording!
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 12. 2021
- ....and it payed off right away. I have mostly recorded my amps and cabs placed at the floor to maximize low end, but that set up introduces a lot of phase cancellation, so its a trade off. In this video I'm recording an amp at a 16" distance both at the floor and also significantly offset to the floor, and I really liked the results!
Gear:
1971 Marshall Super Lead
1983 Marshall Model 1933 1x12 cab with a 1970s JBL D120F
1970s Unidyne IV 548
2008 API 512C
1973 UREI 1176
2008 Gibson Les Paul R9
My old band recorded with Albini in '94, when his studio was in his house. We drove 1/3 of the way across USA (eastern Pennsylvania to Chicago) to do so, but only after Steve 'invited' us after submitting & approving of a demo-tape. This was right b4 he got Famous, outside of the underground scene. He's not just an amazing studio engineer, but a really Cool guy !!
Great to hear that Byron! I’ve gotten that impression of him too!
What band was it? Curious to listen and that's awesome!
That must have been an amazing experience!
But stopped Bob he said" I'm Bob Dylan "
Great Story. I used to work at a Concert venue getting things the bands needed. Got a crate of Stuff for Bob Dylan. Bob
was by the dressing room and he walked outside with me and we talked for awhile absolutely awesome. On the way back in someone had closed the dressing room door which we proved open so we had to go back in the front. I had a pass on so they let me in but stopped Bob because he didn't have a ticket. He said "I'm Bob Dylan ".The ticket guy said" ,sure you are buddy go get a ticket like everyone else And would not let him in despite our insistence that Yes this is really Bob Dylan Eventually he got in and I was left with a great memory and a fun story. Bob was so super cool and fun and engaging to speak with.Great guy! True story. Was at the very old Kingstreet Concert Hall in Charleston, S.C.
At around 2:25 we get a great example of how boundaries (walls, floor, ceiling etc) affect tone. Just listen to the change in Johan's vocal as he approaches the wall and looks down at the amp.
I always thought when Steve mentioned placing mics on the floor, he meant literally a mic on the floor pointed towards the amp. I'm glad I saw this. 😁
Well he does that as well, but I think it's supposed to be just a room mic to complement the main mic.
Albini has really good practical advice, as well as explanations that forced you to think through exactly what was happening with the sound so you could troubleshoot yourself.
Anymore, I don't even think about "tone" or "warmth" as much as the sound wave and how it is interacting with the space/equipment.
Yeah, even though I have done this for a really long time, a basic advice like that can still be important
I’m not a recording engineer, but enjoy listening to Albini talk about recording technics. He’s really thought of and applied so many techniques that all make perfect sense when he explains why.
Can't believe Steve is gone . When I first heard "In Utero" back in late 1993 . I was drawn into the sound as much as the music . I was 13 and coming of age and it was so different from the typical rock albums of that time .
For those about to sonically couple their cabinets’ baffle boards to the floor: we salute you.
My jaw dropped at the first clip on top of the cabinet - the frequency response suddenly became THAT recorded guitar tone! I've been using tilt-back stands to record my amps more and more, but I'm definitely going to try this large elevation next!
Thanks man!
There's the 3rd option: lean it back at an angle against the wall, so the speaker projection is not parallel to the ground, but the cab is still partially on the ground.
Interesting!
@The Tired Horizon that was many bowls ago…
Old fender amps such as the twin have side legs to do this. It's mostly to angle it toward the guitarist to monitor better as canbs are very directional. But it's handy for recording.
I always put the cab on two milk crates placed side by side with some black cloth over them to conceal them...
At first I liked the floor version much better. Then I adjusted my headphones to get them on more firmly and the elevated version stood out. Both sound good for different styles and ranges, depending on what you're going for. Nice demonstration.
Thanks!
I was surprised how much better the sound was on the floor. Thanks for another interesting video.
Johan, Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Merry Christmas! I really preferred the offset setup though. Cheers!
Your experiments never cease to amaze ^^
Thanks! :-)
Makes sense when they say to record one of the upper speakers in a 4x12 cabinet. It reduces the low end rumble.
My favourite Albini guitar sound is on Sunn's Life Metal. Record sounds absolutely huge
Another brilliant test idea👍. The second riff is also really, really good (the funky one)…
Thanks man, glad you like it!
Putting a guitar amp on a wood frame chair is something I've always done. I've had my current amp chair for almost 15 years. You just can't count on the venue to have a suitable chair to hold a Twin or 1x15 bass cab. EDIT: Vintage Shure 548s (and related variants) are killer for cabs and snare.
Also: Yes, please guitarists point your amp so you can hear it well. Otherwise only your knees can hear it, meanwhile deafening everyone else in the room.
Albini was spot on. Amazing. Great clean tones as well. Have a great weekend Johan!
Thanks Eddie! Have a great weekend you too!
Wow that very first clean tone was PERFECT. Wow!
Thanks, glad you like it!
Well done Johan!
Amazing how we become adamant about methods and technique and are reluctant to change.
Thanks for all you Share and Care.
A Very Merry Christmas To You and Your Family and Viewers.
Be Well All!
Merry Christmas Steven!
Interesting. I'll check out Albini. God bless and Merry Christmas 🎄🎸😎
Merry Christmas J!
funking funktastic Johan!
Thanks! :-)
Nirvana's third album In Utero is Steve Albini's work, what a great record. Thanks Johan
Ever since I learned about this I cant stand not having my speaker at ear level... I stack milk crates for home, and built a stand for live shows 😂🤘This lead me to hate 4x12 cabs and eventually 2x12 cabs... Living and loving that 1x12 cab life 😁 Everything sounds so tight , punchy .... "personal"
Yeah 1x12 seems the way to go in recording, at least for main rhythm guitar
Good stuff Johan!
Thanks!
I like to use a vertical 2x12 cab for this reason. I mic both the top and the bottom speakers and mix them in different proportions.
Marshall should raise you a statue !! Happy holidays Johan 🎄🤘🏻🎸
Hahaha! Merry Christmas Rene!
It used to be quite common to see a combo placed on a chair. The problem is that it was never entirely clear whether this was to decouple the amp from the floor, or to avoid phase cancellation from reflected sound, or to raise the speakers above the heads of the front rows - the band being on a stage - or to allow the player to hear themself better. It may have been a combination of all of these factors, but whatever it was, it was clearly a sound that some players liked.
Bass reinforcement from the floor, a corner or even from a flat back wall can get boomy or muddy very quickly, and tends to get in the way of the bass player. If you use another cab as a support, as here, you can even get distracting sympathetic reverberation from the cab at some frequencies. It would be interesting to hear the effect of moving the combo out from the back wall by degrees until it is effectively in free air. More complete isolation from the floor ought to be possible, too.
I saw that Albini video too and think the general premise works great, though haven't messed with the off the floor part. I found 9-12" worked great for me. Start right on the speaker at say 12", if it's too bright, move it a little to the side, if you need more low end, move it a little closer. I think key to that is a side address ribbon mic though (or another figure of 8 pattern mic) so that it's basically picking up nothing from the sides (also meaning the floor). In general, it creates a very natural sound and has some sense of ambience/room due to the mic hearing a bit of the room from the other side. It's quick and easy and good sound.
Also, spoke to Frank Marino a bit about what he does and he uses a dynamic (Sennheiser vocal mic) about 12" away, not on center, and much preferred it on a wood floor. Might also add the he was pretty adamant about not using multiple mics because of phase problems inherent in that.
For your sample, one thing I heard when you came off the floor was what sounded like a more direct, less ambient sound, though not sure I would define it as punchier, but more "clear" and direct I think. And yes, probably due to less phase cancellation. Maybe put a SE Electronics x1r mic on your radar. They aren't too expensive, and sound good. Compared to my Royer 121, it's not that far off, but isn't quite as 3d sounding for lack of a better word. The 121 is also in the shop getting a new ribbon, so there's that too. It's also 4x more expensive. Cheers!
Thanks man, great feedback! Cheers!
At first it was a toss up, but by the final example with the sustained chords it's clear to my ears that the elevated amp is not just punchier, but also clearer and more detailed and precise. The floor does add something to the low end, but I feel like you could get more low end plus the advantages of the elevated position by moving the mic closer, using a different mic or turning up the bass on the amp.
Wonderful! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks!
Hey Johan!! another great video, thank you! ... and guess what? We are scheduled to record with Steve in April!!! I said before I'd use all your advice to record my guitars and I will, let's see what Steve says!! I'm thinking since I'll follow your advice and Steve's I'll record the best guitars ever recorded in history hahaha. Cheers. PS: On my 4x12 my favorite speaker is one of the two at the top, so i guess I'll use a table that reaches the middle of the cab to avoid these reflections, I'll try in a couple of weeks!
Thanks! That’s really cool! Let us know how you sessions go! Cheers
Also, don’t overlook doing it ‘wrong’ as a creative decision:
I’ve heard that part of Brian May’s recorded ‘Deacy Amp’ sound was having the amp on the floor, and moving the mic(s) until the phase cancellations of the space gave a complimentary comb-filtering effect-i.e. leaning into ‘bad/weird sounding’ positions usually avoided, rather than the most phase-coherent-the idea being to create sort of a cocked wah type of effect via acoustic interactions and mic placement.
Hi, Johan!
I think, on a floor is better, but I am allways looking for the best position! HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!
C.U.
Z
Have a great one you too Zigfrid!
i preferred the floor tone , thanks for the comparison ..
Would this be the idea why most engineers prefer to mic the upper speakers of 4x12 cabs instead of the lower?
I can see how that would sit in a mix better! Cuts out some of that bass. Very cool sound
I think there is a difference. It depends on what guitar sound you are aiming for.I would like to see some lead tones with this rig as well.Thanks Johan! Well done. Cheers!
Thanks man. Cheers!
I'ld always put a piece of cardboard on the floor between the cabinet and the mic furthest away from the center of the speaker cone, slightly folded upwards along the direct signal inbetween mic and speaker.... It works!
i love Albini....
To my ears it sounds better on the floor. When raised it sounded noticeably thinner. Keep up the great videos.
Thanks! I think the dynamics are significantly worse on the floor
FWIW, I like it better on the floor where it gives it that low end, closed-back thump. Up higher is a nice variation that could be useful in certain genres and variations, but to me it lacks the ball weight I want to hear for heavy rock.
Exactly-it depend for what you are going for.My taste is floor recording too,though it is a little haze-y or muddy- and I like it,that is the nature of the instrument.
The effects of phase cancellation you’re referring to is called comb filtering. It’s the same effect a delay pedal imparts on the frequency spectrum
good stuff, I'm just starting to plan recording... timing is perfect again lol.
Glad to hear it!
I love Steve Albinis methods. Do you mean this video? "Electrical Audio How-To: Time Alignment of Multiple Sound Sources" ? Thanks and greetz ✌🏼
Hi! This is one czcams.com/video/_mrdd5-ehb8/video.html
@@JohanSegeborn yeah. I know this. Its so good. And i like his sense of humor too ✌🏻
Floor FTW 100% - Hated the elevated sounds.
Ok, I COULDN'T hear any phase cancellation, but there WAS a lot less low end that would have muddied the mix, esp if distorted & made the sound flubby! SHOULD have done distorted sound as well! Still rockin'! \m/
Cheers DMS!
Thank you for your advice... I don't understand why I didn't knew Steve Albini's channel before. YT Algorythm should have been broken for sure!
Oooh and Steve should take your eloquent illustration in his vids!!
More, please.
Off the floor sounds fuller to me. I wonder if the mic was picking up the guitar when it was higher?
It’s very loud so the acoustic sound isn’t picked up
Great bass response when placing amp on the floor; otherwise, the recording may sound slightly thinner than what you hear 'live'.
this is related to the concept of mic'ing the source vs. "recording the space" that the source is in... if your room doesn't sound great, for whatever reason, maybe it's best to close-mic & add ambience in another way, in the box, pedals, etc... or just stick with the reverb you may be putting in your guitar signal as you play. I'm especially a fan of figure-8/ribbon & omni-pattern mics, and use cardiods when trying to lessen poor room sound or mask other nearby sound sources. HTH
I like it on the floor. Much fuller sound. When raised it sounds like the bass was turned off.
This man would a beast with some distortion 🗣😂🤘
Johan, I wonder if you would try a Deeflexx for floor standing cabs and far away mics. For playing, I thought it was a welcome change in "hearing myself".
Interesting, I hadnt seen that one before!
Honestly was not expecting to prefer the elevated amp sound... I'm a changed man
I preferred it in the ground it had more body or low end.
This is how Neil Schon explained to me how he recorded some tracks but with the a HiWatt 4/12 lol After that I went on a HiWatt binge So yes he angled towards the floor and got the bounce up I'm sure room mics were involved as well tho Cool dude
Sound's better when is on the floor ! It's my experiences playing live
Tone is hands down more vibrant and alive elevated. Electric audio has some of the most acoustically specialized rooms possible. Idk if anyone has seen his "natural" studio reverb? I have to wonder if this suggestion was after he'd moved into his space?
Johan, what software do you use to make these videos? They always sound so clear and distortion free.
Hey Johan, have you ever heard of using foam on the inside back of closed cabs? Cheers & Merry Xmas
Years ago I read that Tom Dowd did this when recording the Allman Brothers. From then on I have always kept my cabs off the floor for recording and live
I was also a major Big Black fan. Saw them twice in Seattle, including their last show at a steam plant
Sounds really good miked at that distance! How do you like it compared to miking right up close to the speaker?
Thanks! It sounds more balanced when offset from the floor
Great!
I've been keeping them on a five gallon bucket.
Albino, Mr personality lol.. we recorded with him and months later cousins band did the same, same consensus, Mr personality lol
👍👍
Jaks - Hollywood Blood Capsules ( recorded by Steve Albini ) IS THE BEST
you also lose that low drone that is the floor vibrating
I encountered an early 70's tall Marshall 4x12 recently that is almost as tall as 8x12.
I wondered if you have access to one of these and do a video on it?
I go through the Marshall cabs here
czcams.com/video/FgUhvLL-dVo/video.html
And play most of them here also
czcams.com/video/rWUVpulq1TE/video.html
Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn Thanks, I noticed the 8x10, didn't notice that you did the 2032 and 2033 4x12 you did in the middle.
@@JohanSegeborn Another question I read from literature (Since the speaker on your video in one of the tall cab are not original).
The 2032 is "Bass-Lead Organ" while the 2033 is "Bass" with different handling power.
Does it mean that 2033 is loaded with G12H vs G12M in 2032?
Sounds a bit more open when got lifted
Your Les Paul, is the neck slim or chunky like a 50s?
It’s right between a 61 SG and a 57 Les Paul
ITS BASSIER ON THE GROUND....I RECORD WITH THE AMP OFF THE GROUND DIDNT KNOW ALBINI DID IT THAT WAY!
No "Let's go"????
My sincere apologies ;-)
Haha! I actually liked it better on the floor 🤷♂️😃...?
Interesting story about Albini. I lived in Seattle when Nirvana released it's second major album, Heart Shaped Box. The record company requested that they put a bit more low end on the album and supposedly Albini went nuts. Nirvana took out a full page ad trying to fix the situation. They said that basically Albini was being a d*ck, and the record company was just requesting a small change (no biggie). They totally went against Abini. It was interesting.
I hadn’t heard that. I do prefer his mixes of In Utero though. Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn One interesting info about IU, according to Abini, Kurt used a Quadverb with only one power tube working. Quadverbs usually have the Oxford 12t6, the same speaker model from the Twins used on Let it Be sessions.
Cheers
But corporate rock still sucked! Yeah?
@@owlytimbre9103 Yeah, perhaps corporate rock, in that EQ adjustment sucked less than how Albini had treated them? But that's just a guess.
Ugh boomers- OK this never happened. Nirvana's 3rd album was recorded with albini, and it was called in utero, not heart shaped box. Find one piece of info about this situation other than the utter bullshit spewed from your mouth
Hi johan
Hi!
@@JohanSegeborn i have a question, i like metal music. i have a mesa boogie mark v amplifier, and a cabinet that im not happy with.
Witch cabinet and speaker combo would you recommend for metallica the black album without using the 1960bv.
Preferably a 112 cabinet.
Than i can hunt for a 90s marshall vintage 70w speaker
Steve Albini advice? I think millions of people did it before Steve Albini advice. Go with your taste anyway :)
People have been doing this for decades in all genres...in the70s, in jazz, etc etc nothing new
Well there’s a lot of parameters when recording so it’s a great contribution when someone articulates why he chooses a certain trade off. Nothing is trivial, it’s all trade offs
@@JohanSegeborn Yes so true, the reasons behind many techniques are often not explained, so that is nice. I have seen it done on recordings dating back to the 60s and 70s...fender combo amps put on chairs and stools, etc. First time I ever heard it explained why tho, was from guitarist Scott Henderson in the early 90s. If you never heard of him check out this video I posted of him live on my page:
czcams.com/video/DlGq-qsjyvM/video.html