an HONEST take on high-end cables
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- I may lose subscribers with this video, but honesty is always the best policy.
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While I am sure you heard an improvement, I believe it is also good to do a blinded test with someone else randomly switching cables without the listeners knowledge of which cable they are listening to. This removes any psychology biases we may have based on cable price or construction quality. For example, there was a wine test done a few years ago where people in a restaurant were served a cheap wine in its original bottle and the same wine in an expensive wine bottle. Most test subjects preferred the wine from the expensive bottle despite them being the same wine. If one cable is significantly better than the others in a blinded test, it will be immediately obvious.
I read about a similar wine study where a group of sommeliers were fooled as well.
@@mddawson1 yes, but hifi frauds do not like blindtests! Such tests would ruin their life!!!
Long term listening reveals things instant A-B comparisons can't blind or not. The problem with blind instant switchovers isn't the blind, it's the instant. That is because we don't have perfect discernment at an instant. All we mostly hear in instant A_B switchovers is large tonal differences, like change in bass, mid, treble... that kind of thing. To hear subtle differences in detail, harmonic content and subtle distortions it takes long term listening. Folks who work conscientiously with audio know that. Remember we don't havegood discernment at an instant and that goes for any of our senses. Especially as music itself is changing every milisecond. One time at a part my friend was playing music through his "highj end" system, he suddenly jumped up ..."oh" and pressed a button on the preamp. No one could hear what that did or what the difference was at that instant. Turned out that the system was in mono and he switch it back to stereo. Does that mean there is no difference between mono and stereo because we couldn't detect it after the switchover? Of course not. Long term listening would have revealed that difference though.
@@mddawson1 hifi frauds do not like blindtests!!!
@@mddawson1 so many ignorant and stupid people out there!
Looking forward to video of the double blind ABX test you pass.
But i won't hold my breath for it 😂
I always buy high-end speaker cable - bulk lamp cord at Home Depot on the highest-spool. I stay away from low-end cable on the bottom spools. I tried low-end cable once and could only get decent performance by hanging it high on my walls.
😂
They have speaker cables in my home depot, sounds fine.
I'm old enough to remember when 12 ga. lamp cord was the high end cable that audiophiles used
If someone needs a cable to fix their system, it’s likely not the cable(s). That said, I’ve absolutely heard a difference between cables, but it’s a somewhat subtle difference. Something like different capacitance in a phono cable will make an audible difference. I just don’t understand why people get so upset about it. Spend $100K on cables, I don’t care. Use a coat hanger, I still don’t care. 😂
I’ve always liked Herb Richert’s quote of something like, “We can hear most of what we can measure, but we can’t necessarily measure everything we can hear”
Cheers, Nick! 🍺
The cables werent a fix
@@RorieShadeWho said they were? The first thing I said was a generalized statement. Fixing something implies that it was broken. His system was working fine to begin with, and the cables merely made it sound better to him. You’re gonna have to be more clear in your comment.
White cloth cable sleeves... I'm sure that'll look really good and nice after a few times of touching them, and a few weeks of average house dust. So easy to clean too... 😂
Common man that white cloth is made of cotton fertilized from rainbow colored Unicorn poopoo🤫
Being an avid 2 channel stereo music lover and making the jump to a multi-channel setup, I immediately became aware of how the room sounded different. Didn't know what it was at first, but coming from an audio black background there was no way I was prepared to put up with it!
Even after auditioning 3 separate AVR's, the same ambient sound of the room was still present! That told me the unwanted faint background signal noise I had been experiencing (poor description) had nothing to do with the actual units. Therefore, my attention changed to the cables. And even then It was only on the third occasion after I finally purchased shielded cables that the noise floor within my small room finally came down to satisfactory levels.
Cables often act as antennas for attracting RF, and the longer the cable, the better the antenna. Probably explains why when I used to disconnect my heights and surrounds within 10 minutes, the faint background signal noise (RF/EMI) within my small room used to disappear/dissipate.
The more cables I shield, the quieter my room becomes, and the better the shielding, the more the chance the cables are likely to disappear.
If one has the same sensitivities and is looking to address this matter, but is also hoping to notice (hear) the incremental differences, I would strongly suggest starting with analogue cables before moving on to digital and power cables.
Trying to achieve a totally silent room sadly has turned into obsession for me. However, the results speak for themselves. There are times when pressing pause (or mute), my small room has now become so quiet that I'm actually unable to differentiate whether the system is on or if it's actually switched off. Of course, audiophile equipment helps, but in reality, for one to have a totally silent room, cables are where it's at.
When friends or guests come over, I used to show them how loud the system goes. Now I prefer to press mute and show them how my quiet it goes
None of them gets it, of course 😂
😂😂 They probably never will 🍺
The important thing is that you are happy with them, but for me it is three things.
1) I don’t think my equipment is good enough for a cable like that to matter much
2) My ears are pretty crappy
3) Man am I cheap
4) you I am tossing in a four, my wife would kill me LOL
Thanks I still love your channel, and really enjoying the news letter.
Thank you, Greg!
It is a tough sell for sure. But this is the audio industry and the law of diminishing returns is the rule here. When you begin you pay a little and you get a lot but you start paying a lot and you end up with very little. The improvements the more you spend get smaller and smaller. Unless you're rich not a smart way to go. With that said I'm glad you're enjoying the cables and sharing the experience. Cheers.
Cheers, Ross! 🍺
“High end cables” 😂😂😂😂😂
Copper wire, some shielding, decent mechanical connectors joins and you’re good to go 👍👍
I make my own RCA cables using 75OHM coaxial cables and good quality RCA connectors ,
just so i know that they are soldered correctly and i gives me piece of mind that its done right.
they cost all up about $ 60.00 a pair and have a few in my system but im happy doing this .
5 years later they have still no dropouts or issues .
That's great, Dave! I should try that someday.
Great video. Would you mind sharing the cables you were using before?
Hi Todd - I believe they were Canare.
I've always heard that as long as the cables are insulated and your speaker, amp and phono are correctly spaced and away from interference (such as electricity in the walls, etc.) that you should be okay. I've tried Mogami cables and really like them. Pig Hog is good too and don't cost too much, but I never said I was an audiophile...lol.
Cheers! 🍺🍺🍺
A couple of needle drops taken directly from the outputs using these cables vs the old cables and asking us to guess which was which would have been fun. I would have liked to have seen everyone distinguish the correct cables from the needle drops with such certainty.
Sounds like the difference should be easily audible even through CZcams. And measurable as well. Tell me how more bass wouldn't be unless the difference isn't real.
I'm open minded and will test a bunch of things out that I now wholly believe affect sound quality (and skeptics / engineers will skewer me for), but interconnects are just not one of them. Especially when comparing cheap to good, the delta should be significant, but it's not. And then going from quality to boutique, if anything it should plateau so what's the point? The easiest test is to just run two pairs out your tape loop and flip back and forth, if there's a difference, you should hear it easily (I never have, and I hear voices)
That's exactly why, Sarah!
@@mat.b. Ha-ha!
A cable becomes part of the transfer function between two pieces of equipment. Some cables will improve the match between the equipment and sound better, while others will make it worse. Suffice to say different cables will sound different.
How does a 3 ft piece of copper make its output better than its input?
@@Carl-bd1rf It is not a 3 ft piece of copper, it is in a dielectric, has distributed resistance, capacitance, and inductance. This works with the output impedance of the source and the input impedance of the destination. It is much more complex than you think. As I said, it will change the sound. Possibly for the better or the worse. It may be so subtle as to be unnoticeable or very apparent.
@@alfonsodelafreg259
You didn’t answer the question. How does a 3ft long cable improve the input signal it receives?
Any device that changes the input signal it receives is creating an artificial artifact. A distortion of the original.
Cables can only detract they can’t add something to improve.
Can cables change the sound, absolutely. The differences heard are the differing distortions specific cables incur.
A quality cable stays true to its input source. To say cables can make an improvement to the sound is a false narrative and extremely misleading.
@@Carl-bd1rf Well, you missed the point. I never said it would make the signal 'better' as you stated. It will be different, so when you compare two cables, one may 'sound' better than the other. It is called preference, or could actually be a measurable improvement in transfer accuracy in the time or frequency domain. The 'improvement' is relative, The best it could do is nothing at all, but we know that is impossible unless you could reduce its temperature to absolute zero.
'A quality cable stays true to its input source. To say cables can make an improvement to the sound is a false narrative and extremely misleading.'
Your statement is simply not true. A cable that alters the signal in a proven way that is psychoacoustically more pleasing, can be labeled as better. It is 'relative' as I said. I stand by everything I stated in this conversation.
@@alfonsodelafreg259
It would appear then that we can agree that cables can cause an artificial artifact or distortion and we can perceive this phenomenon as adding something better!
Unfortunately for me I’ve shelled out way too much money over the years on cables and yes those expensive ones change things in one fashion or another. They sound better at first only because we perceive a change.
But invariably over time I always come back to a simple shielded oxygen free 99.9% copper cable. To my ears it just seems to do the least amount of change/damage to what it is connected to.
With all that money wasted on cables I could’ve easily purchased a nice set of speakers where the sound is really good, better, or best!!
Once I went silver, it became a waste of time to ABX test. I’m glad I found silver at affordable prices.
I use silver RCA cables that use oil as a dielectric.
I use 14 gauge 4N silver wires wrapped with an 8 gauge teflon for speaker wires. Air dielectric.
I find silver power cables that use NCF terminals.
Even my power distributor is built with silver wires.
My system is finalized because of these cable finds.
That's awesome! 🍺
I can relate to your experience. When I was looking upgrade my cabling to coincide with recently purchased streamer and Dac. At first I was going to get RCA cables but the rep suggested starting with upgrading the usb cable since that was at the beginning of the signal change and I was using the cable stock cable that came with the Dac. I was really skeptical with usb cable but he sent a few to try and he said I was going to be shocked. Well omg my mouth was wide opened with what I was hearing and it was not subtle. That really shattered what I thought all these years that I’d cannot make a difference because the signal are 1s and 0s. There are some that will call snake oil and had I not know any better, I probably would agree. But I cannot I hearing the difference the cable made. I ended up purchasing The Nordost TYR2 USB and have been very happy. I plan on upgrading the complete cable loom for that line of cables
Now that I've heard the difference I have to figure out what I'm going to do when I add a SUT to the chain. I can't afford another one of these so I'll have to find a cheaper alternative.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I hear you. I’m in the same boat. I’m planning to add the cable loom which is going to be expensive but I figured I’m already in $20k for the Dac and streamer. So what the heck. As you said try for the alternative and see what is out there first, then go from there
Another wonderful informative video! Before I upgrade to more expensive cables, I just hope to rest assured that these cables are not enhancing the sound in any way. I want great quality, accurate, flat frequency response, not audio that has sugar sprinkled on it.
Agreed, Seth. I had similar concerns. I've been very happy with these so far.
Cables make a difference
But my limit is $150
Saying that high end cables make a bigger difference on a high end system is only pandering to the enthusiasts who think spending 3k on cables is justified for their higher end systems. I remember Steve Guttenberg (audiophiliac) talking about a friend with a $100k+ system who used only the cheap, no shielding thin interconnects that manufacturers supply with their products because he didn't believe in getting better interconnects. He tried to convince him to get quality cables but to no avail. That system sounded outstanding according to Steve. I guess sometimes it only matters what you think and not what others say.
Yeah, I can't justify paying that much for cables. I have a cables from Blue Jean Cables, World's Best Cables, and I have my hand-made cables using RG6 quad-shielded coax cable. They all work great for me since I don't have a high end system to listen through.
I've heard that World's Best Cables are really good
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords for their cost, quality, and the really nice variety of kinds of cables and lengths make them worth it.
Steve Huff did a video about speaker cables. He bought a few inexpensive brands from Amazon and tested them all on some of the stuff he had in his house for review. The winner turned out to be a pair from Micca that were around 30.00 or so. I bought a pair. Honestly, up till then, I had been just cutting my own speaker cable from a roll. These were already precut and coated in rubber with banana clips already attached. And yes, of course, they made a huge difference in my system.
I saw that video! Really good. I recall him saying that was the brand he would stick with from now on.
I cannot agree more!
Dismissed these cable mysteries until ivdid my own experiments using different inexpesive wires and connectors for yrs until i was convinced beyond any doubt that well engineered conductors DOES make a difference …
A resolving system will almost for sure demonstrate these audible difference….. enjoy!
I build my own cables from VH Audio…. Chris is a no bs guy…. 😅
To your point of better cables changing the sound of components, I recently was surprised myself with a change of my speaker cables. The change was not as dramatic as the cost was, however I can say I am pleased with my expensive cable purchase.
I achieved suprisingly good results when I got a longer power cable for my wifi speaker. Yup, cables do make a difference.
Good to know , Edgar!
The tonearm to phono should be pretty obvious. Especially if you have a low voltage MC cartridge. The signal is in mV.
One question, did you (temporarily) switch back to your old cables to determine if the new cables really WERE an improvement?
Hi! Yes. After this video I switched them out because I moved the new cables to my review room before moving them back a week later. I document some of this in an article for the website I'm writing. Glad you asked!
Cables are really important, the amount of folks I know who still use cheap speaker wires is stupid. I have to add… I’ve been using subs bass bins for over 30 years. For me it’s a must. The on,y true way to hear the depth to any sound.
I can hear the difference and improvement that good cables provide. The big question is how much to spend and what value are you getting in sound quality improvement. It doesn't make any sense to me to buy speaker cables that cost more than my speaker (not to mention that I'm bi-amping so my speaker cable costs are double). Why not sell my speakers buy a modest priced wire and upgrade the speakers with the money? I've never come across a set of cables that knocked me off my feet the way a new and major component upgrade can do. These days I focus on buying good quality vinyl and SACDs for the best sound.
I personally think that high end cables are overpriced. I'm always on the lookout for cables that are a good value. Also, I want ones with exceptional connectors. I think connectors are just as important as the wires themselves. Here's a question: Would you be better off buying expensive high end RCA cables or switching to XLR balanced middle of the road quality cables. I don't know if anybody has looked into this.
So until I acquire components worth 100s of thousands of dollars I'll stick with cables priced commensurate with the current value of my system (replacement value about $30K-$40K). For me with 2 sets of speaker wires that's probably around $2K or so.
I went through a similar experience in the last year. Was very skeptical as an early audiophile but as I grow and mature I realize I don’t know everything. It’s been a fun journey and my system is so much better for it. Not my wallet, but my system lol. Thanks for the video. Btw on my setup, Morrow cables have made a big difference.
The journey never ends does it?
@@cleverb3507 you will never become a happy hifi man! You should visit your doctor!
@@cleverb3507 you should visit your eardoctor and shrink! Perhaps they can help you!!!
@@cleverb3507 Ha-ha!
Remember the coathanger speaker cable story of years ago? Imagination and Dr Placebo are back to haunt us. You drank the kool aid.
What's the coathanger speaker story?
@@TheJoyofVinylRecordsMonster cable vs coat hangers blind test. If you Google it I’m sure you’ll find it.
Look up “Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers” There are pros and cons to this famous moment in audiophiledom. But the test back in the mid 00’s became quite the talk of the equipment world.
That cable thingy. It's soooo easy to try and hear.
You don't want to hear a difference? Fine, don't even try.
You're curious? Just ask your local dealer, borrow one and listen.
No difference? Just return the loaner.
Difference? Well.
You could buy a REL T7x and be blown away at the quality of bass. Way better money spent than a cable
2-Rel Carbon Specials 😊
@@CarlVanDoren61🙃
nope. .... says me, the owner of 2 REL T7/x.
Cheers!
Likely the quantity of bass would be an improvement but not the quality. Less than 10% of people are able to get subwoofer integration correctly
@@RorieShadeI have a REL S/510. It is super easy to integrate the S series REL subs. A boom box like SVS is hard to integrate.
I’m glad you liked them. That’s all that matters in the end. My wallet, brass ears, and amount of time actually spent listening to my modest system, wouldn’t justify fancy cables, or any other fancy components. It is hard to argue that the components (wiring/caps/tubes) inside equipment matter, but not the cables. Some cable do border on the ludicrous in terms of price. In the end, only the buyer has to be happy with the purchase. Not your subscribers.
Cheers to that, Steve!
As an electric guitar player , I have to replace instrument cable’s every few years . I am always confused about how critical the cables were in my tone . Always opted for low mid price as I felt the way you did about expensive cables . Your video changed my mind . Thanks
With guitar stuff you might find that you like the cheap stuff better.
I'm all in on cables making a difference. I've heard it myself countless times. But what I do think is BS is cables costing multiples thousands of dollars. There's absolutely no justification for that. I'm sure these cables sound great, but they are 100% ripping people off with that price tag.
I bought some better then standard cables for my system, not as expensive as what you got there, but some decent cables. I bought them for the consistency. I even upgraded my power cables. I felt that some cables made a definite improvement while others didn't. It seems that certain equipment respond better to better cables. But what I actually created was my "new normal". Now they all sound pretty regular to me. I'm happy with the outcome and don't plan on going any further down that "rabbit hole". Besides, you can get a decent sub for less than a lot of these cables. Just don't turn the sub up all the way, use it like EQ.
Hi Mike! I plan to audition a set of power cables soon. I'm curious if I'll hear anything different.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I felt the main power cable into my amp had some effect, not so much on other devices.
I'm glad you like your cables.
Remember what P.T. Barum said, "There is a sucker born every minute".
$2000 to $3000 a cable is totally outrageous.
There are tens of thousands of people who have 8-figure incomes. Those people own multiple mansions, multiple dream cars, yachts, etc.
Some of those people own dream stereos, that cost them $250,000 and up. Some spend that much on only their turntable.
So for them, outfitting their stereo with $50,000 in interconnects is not expensive. That is less than one day's pay for them.
If they were to outfit their dream stereo with hundred dollar, good cables, they would be compromising the sound quality of their dream stereo.
I doubt that anyone that spends $400,000 on their stereo will diminish its sound quality with lesser interconnects.
If your stereo cost $15,000, then spending $3,000 on a cable is not where you would get the best bang for your buck. But for wildly great stereos, such interconnects are a proper match.
How much profit goes in to those cable sales? Probably a large percentage. But keep in mind that those cables are hand made, and can take days to complete a single cable.
A mass produced cable can sell for little cost, due to the volume. But when you sell only 2 or 3 cables in a week, those cables will be expensive.
Price does not always dictate quality. There are expensive cables that are nothing special (sound quality wise). But the cables that result in having the best sound quality... well, those cables take a load of manual labor to create, and will have a price tag to match.
You mean a $5,000 cable which might take 20 hours to make at $10/hour = $200 plus minimal material cost justfies the $5,000 price? Let's not kid ourselves, the $5,000 price is because they want a huge sum of your money to go into their bank account, instead of just a smaller amount. Things cost. Like sports cars and their European Vactions
@sidesup8286 it's the norm to charge 5 to 10 times the price of anything in hifi. But I think hifi cables are charging more like 15 times more than what it cost to make them,that it's outrageous. Good for the cables manufacturers bad for the customers.😢
Just like in everyday life there are people who will give you a break, and those who will not. Some people are nicer than others and care about others more. Some people only care about how big an amount of money they can get into their bank account...from YOU.
@@NoEgg4u Bragging rights.
Most of our thinking is reversed teached !
Do quality cables imporve the the sound ? ..........................NO !
They degrade less !
The same is true for other issues ...........GOOD tube amplifiers do less harm to the music than SS......people say they sound warmer , my tube designs do not sound warmer but sound more human ..........very expensive high quality SS can come close almost tube like but lower quality tube amplifiers are worse!
Great way to put it - about degrading less.
If you just discovered cables make a difference to sonics, then I encourage you to try a well made "audio rack". Then you will be really amazed.
I'm a big believer in higher-end cables, having heard the difference they make, and all things being equal, think that as a rule of thumb budgeting 5-10% of a higher-end system for all interconnects and speaker cables, or possibly up to 15% if including power cables, can make sense- but beyond that, one loses the value proposition- and IMO cable expenses for a system should not rise to the level that they take precedence over getting fundamentally better source or electronics gear.
Cheers, Max! 🍺
An audacity comparison would have been helpful.
Pangea RCA cables are a very good choice. And they won't break the bank.
I am using their top of the line RCA and XLR cables and are very pleased with them.
I think I am going to use them fro another component
I hear you but I don't know if I could do it
I won't be able to do it again. This was a one time thing
i've heard and seen all this before. i used to work at a high-end store. people would come in and just have to have this $1000 interconnect, but after talking with them, i knew they were going to be disappointed in how it sounded. a high cable, in most cases, is not going to help your $499 integrated amp. a good quality less expensive might, but not all that much. if you have entry level equipment, then high end cables are not for you. the better the equipment, the better the cable. you want to get everything you paid for in your equipment. the cable they give you in entry level equipment is just to get you up and running. a cable like the entry level from Straight Wire or PBJ from Kimber will help make the entry Denon sing better. but when you get into higher end equipment, like Simaudio Moon or Accuphase, then higher quality cabling is going to make a great difference. i have proved it to too many people, blind tests and otherwise to know it is true.
Synergistic Research. 30 days to get your money back if you don't like them send them back since 1985. Foundation SX line is best bang for the buck. I replaced the same 2 cables for a few hundred bucks less but l also have a 20 amp dedicated outlet wired with 10 gauge copper, a Synergistic Research purple outlet, and the latest Synergistic Research SX power conditioner. Full looms of any cables work best. Also have Synergistic Research cable on my REL S 510 sub. I don't care that much about bass but the sub adds tremendous fullness to the whole frequency range. Biggest shock in audio so far for me in 50 years of vinyl playback. But I hope there is more!! 😊🎸🎵🎶🥁🎷🎹
Thank you for all that!
A decent cable made more difference here, than the difference between Spotify and Qobus.
And my active speakers are much cheaper than a amp plus passive spekers.😂
I would recommend Iconoclast cables which are manufactured by Belden. Their retired chief engineer, Galen Gareis, wanted to design audio cables that perform based on measurements. All of their design white papers are found on their website. They also offer a 30 day trial period. I own their lower cost BAV interconnects which outperformed all of my other interconnects. That inspired me to get their Series 2 speaker cables. My previous favorite are Kimber Kables. I still like them but they’re a step below Iconoclast.
Good to know!
I have $50 dollars cables.
They are just as good.
As more expensive cables.
The only exemption it's phono cables they make a huge difference.
Cheap cables for me equals great sound,not good. Great sound. And more money in the bank for more important things.But im more tolerant of those who think the grass is greener. Even though there is no grass.
This is all about relativity - a thousand dollar cable would make no difference on a budget system but it would make a big difference on a forty thousand dollar system.
The world is crazy. Paying $2000 for cables.
If you really want to throw gasoline on the fire, try the power cord. Guaranteed to blow your mind. And to drive the naysayers apoplectic.
I just might have to do that! 😂
I just introduced a new cable with 2x 6ga hot wire in a fully shielded cable with ferrite core around the terminals. The wider soundstage significantly greater 3D sound, the deeper bass the greater pressurized room. Even more articulated across the freq range. I’ve stopped buying a subwoofer too. My wife heard the difference too. No one has explained the physics. Too bad, it simply works. This was significantly better than the already upgraded cable I was using. It is also shielded and ferrite core surrounds. These are boutique hand made cables. Cables like all of your system including the room, matter.
Well put - funny you mentioned your wife noticing. Mandie never does when I add new equipment but she noticed this.
IMHO it's a question of the weakest link. If your system is very mature, perhaps the cable upgrade makes the most sense? For me, I'd better improve basic components first, I doubt I would hear the difference with any cable...
There is going to be a pantload of skeptics saying that it's all in your mind, man. But I've been in audio for over 50 years and I have enough experience to know that if I do this, this will happen and if I do that, that will happen. The doubters who determine whether a system sounds good by looking at their sliderules will just have to live the lives that they live and accept what they get.
Cheers! 🍺
Hey If it works, then it works. That is all that matters.
I get that, Chris! The Aric Audio phono stage is the one for me, but I constantly run into things like the Pe-505 that I appreciate immensely.
Thought you were holding mushrooms in the thumbnail lol
😂😂😂
The new hifi snakeoil is cables, DACs and transports!!!
Well....I would just like to add some thoughts.
I commented before on the value of any audiophile equipment and how it becomes a drug which overtakes the music and instead of listening to a wonderful Mozart String quartet or whatever takes your fancy. You become obsessed with whether you can hear the viola player picking his nose or not while he awaits his intro and then...deciding and subsequently debating whether it is the right or left nostril and which finger is used!!!
My HiFi journey which started in the seventies ended as such pretty much at the end of the nineties when I realised i was NOT listening to the music anymore...but the equipment.
Equipment which influenced in its own way what I was hearing.
Now as for cables...let me pass on some very good advice.
An old work associate, a professional electronics, mechanical and audio engineer. Said to me, that professional audio studios, do not use so called " audiophile" cable. Everything is just good quality professional grade wire...which is nowhere near the cost of some budget priced cables, let alone audiophile ones!
The same applies for any plugs or sockets. Professional grade...not made from or coated in some rare and precious metal only found in the deepest darkest mines of the deepest darkest jungle in some deepest darkest remote region of the world!
I jest...but I hope you get my point.
I ended up ditching my quite expensive interconnects ( each pair were £30 each in the mid eighties ) and speaker cable, for just good quality grade wire.
Try this approach....you might just realise something.
Regardless...happy listening to all.....
Differences in cables are pretty obvious to those who actually listen.
Congratulations on having an open mind. There are some who dismiss quality cables without having heard them. Those people don't have an opinion, they have a prejudice.
Abbey Road Studios amongst others use Van Damme cables, go figure!!
I agree that cables make a difference, but also feel thats it's about time and place. I've followed the idea of 10% of your system budget for cables. As the system is developing money may be better spent on other things. That said, once you're in a place where you're happy with the system, cables can add that final layer of polishing and refinement.
It's all about experimenting and having fun. Glad to see you love/hate these. It has been great watching your system evolve and following the journey!! Cheers.
Cheers, Christian! 🍺
Fantastic I'll take 2 of each 🍻. Well done once again 👍. I'm curious about the TT to pre cable. I currently use a fairly good ortofon to match the 2m black. Are you getting more noticable bass delivered to the Model 5s ? That sounds interesting as I have them too. Greg
Well - two things on the bass response. I did notice an improved signal with the cable from the phono stage to the amp. I also recently tube rolled and the response is even better. I'm not able to switch the cable from the turntable to the phonostage as it runs direct from the tonearm (captive cable)
Hello you need to get yourself some townsend isolda cables you won't regret it
What about gold,which is the best electrical leader?!
Upgrading those freebie RCA cables to something better is important, but upgrading them to megabuck cables is a waste of money if your system cannot resolve the incremental improvements. If you already have a great sounding TT/cartridge (or DAC), amp and speakers then go for it.
My experience is cables DO make a difference... My issue is its value proposition as the incremental improvement realized vs increment cost incurred is just something I am not willing to pursue...
Agree. I think I am getting near the end of experimenting!
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Good luck !!! :) Cables can be priced in the stratosphere some of which hovers around the price of a Honda Civic ! Just makes no economic sense to me.
I’m glad you made this video, it pains me when people refuse to believe that cables make a difference. I wish I could get all the neigh sayers to visit my home so I can show them, in my system, that there is a clear difference, no arrogance, just a friendly invite to show them that electrical engineers and their measurement do not tell the full story of whats going on in hifi cables.
I guess it's your ears. I stacked £1000 silver cables against £75 copper cables.
No "improvement" but a "different" sound.
I hear an improvement every time I go up the food chain in amps speakers and cartridges.
@@sbwlearning1372 oh yeah i agree, its not always better but always different. I’ve had a similar experience with silver
You can SHOW us.
Make a video of you passing a double blinded ABX test and SHOW us that you can hear what you claim you can hear.
If the difference is obvious then you should pass the test easily.
We're all waiting
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 I can do all this but there will still be an unavoidable problem, there will be people who will still criticise the video. “Thats not level matched” “You didn’t use professional recording equipment” “This proves nothing” I’m happy to do the video and you will hear the difference no doubt about it, but getting people to accept that is the real challenge. I think with some folk, once they’ve convinced themselves there’s no difference, no evidence will change their mind, almost like they refuse to be proved wrong. Narrow minded if you will. If your open minded and not this type of person and can accept if you’re wrong I’l happily make the video but I’m not wasting my time to satisfy the curiosity of people who are biased about it. Most of the time when people leave comments like yourself its to poke fun at those who experience a difference in sound, nothing to do with actually wanting to hear the difference as their minds are already made up. So my question is this, if and when you hear the difference, will you be mature enough to admit that you can, or will you find some kind of excuse to make the evidence invalid? Because if it’s the latter, quite frankly I’m not wasting hours of my time for you. Just to be clear I’m not attacking you in any way, this is a friendly response, just how I feel about it. This is why it’s better for people to hear it themselves.
I'm glad you brought up measurements. From what I've seen, they can indicate a problem (say with a speaker etc). But showing a measurement will never be an indicator as to how it is actually heard by the listener. All of ears are shaped differently and how the soundwaves are interpreted.
If you think cables improved your sound wait until you ditch LPs and your turntable and get a cd player and play cds.
Great video. I discovered that years ago with OG Kimber Silver cables. I do agree that cables do make a difference. Thx.
❤ Kimber Kables 😊
Not to be mean spirited, you didn't really prove that "expensive" cables make a difference, you proved that these cables did. I would like to know more about the company and how to possibly purchase a pair. Even if for nothing more that the cables that go from my turntable to my integrated amp with a phono section.
Actually, you're right Edward, and if I wasn't clear that's on me. It really has nothing to do with expensive. This was all about higher-end c ables. If the Darwin Cable was $100 the video wouldn't have been any different (except for the fact that I would have saved money!). Glad you brought it up so I could help be clear should anyone else have thought it was all about the expense.
I’ve been testing a lot of different high end cables. I noticed zero improvement or change in sound quality with some. The silver phono cables I tried definitely made an improvement but it also made the music too bright for me, the sound actually bothered my ears. The Van Den Hul 3T Mountain interconnects definitely improved clarity over the Auditorium 23 interconnects I owned. This was confirmed by my wife when I had her listen to them both. I ended up buying the Mountain interconnects. I’m continuing to test speaker wires because I haven’t found a pair that are an improvement over my A23’s.
I've also heard silver can be bright - or lend it to brightness. Fortunately I didn't experience that (and I'm very sensitive to anything harsh).
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords you should try pure gold, which is the best leader!!!
If the high end cable delivers but some don’t. For me AudioQuest was my budget high limit. But every offering I bought the highs were attenuated. It wasn’t HiFi smooth, it was neutered. Went to Mogami (I’m a musician…) and the highs were back. Recently switched to Schiit Snake Oil (German made) by Sommer cables. As clear as Mogami but with better, rich lows so now an actual even spectrum. I don’t doubt yours are noticeably better. But I’ve found these are the best in my price range. It’s the Schiit. Obviously the whole system needs to run them, anything else is a weak link. A stereo is only as good as its weakest interconnects or speaker cables. I agree from experience.
Thanks, Brad - I'll have to keep those in mind. I love the brand name "Snake Oil" - nothing like embracing the debate and running with it.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Schiit gives no info, but their cables have directionally grounded shields. There are 3 tiny arrows printed on the jacket to denote signal flow.
As long as you can hear and, more importantly, enjoy the difference this cable makes to your system then nothing else matters. Enjoy 😊
🍺🍺
Cables do make a difference but I doubt any cables past a few hundred bucks matter. Amp stylus and speakers also matter too 😅😂
Even the room too! It's like another component
1:36 in $2.14 vs $21,400,000,000 that doesn't matter as much as knowing your system. The best way to test is to go back to the original cable after you're dialed in on the better cable and its nuances. Cables do make a difference but maybe not on your system. Any video making claims about cables need a reference system listed and without one the video is useless... Not mean just Scientific fact...
Note: it's doubtful any system costing less than 20K will provide one with insight into this debate and even with a 20K system what makes sense for a cable budget (in addition, I'll say 5K +,-)!!
There is an old saying “The proof is in the pudding”. If folks would slow down, simply listen to the science a bit, not be bias for whatever the reasons and try cables such as these themselves, maybe they would also realize that hearing is believing. Many will not. And smug as it sounds, it comes down to jealousy and money much of the time.
And this comes from a guy who is not wealthy, has a modest system and no higher end cables.
Gotta watch ones own psychology and what lies behind resistance to possibilities/bias.
Enjoy the cables, improved sound and thanks for the video!
(Still sub’d ;))
Thank you for this John. I am trying to collect my thoughts for an article about this.
While folks can sometimes be fooled and blind A/B testing is best, it would seem to me that when all other aspects of a listening test stays the same except for one then the simple answer is most likely the reason.
Occam's razor is still a useful tool to keep in mind.
Good luck with the article!
I think every element in your system makes a difference. Cables would have to play a part. I have spent a few hundred on cables that I feel are pretty good. I'm not ready to put a few thousand into cables at this point and I'm happy with how everything sounds. There are always things we can do to make improvements along the way. It's a journey.
I really hope my journey ends soon. I'll never stop with the records, but it'll be nice when I can stop with the system.
@TheJoyofVinylRecords
It's always tempting to keep tweaking things. I think I'm at the point where I just want to listen to the music. I know if I had a bottomless checkbook, I could always keep buying the next upgrade. Since I don't, I've decided to be happy with what I have. Many people don't have a system as nice as mine. So I'm thankful. I'll still watch reviews and continue to learn. But I think I'm done messing with the system.
Great video. Silver is indeed a much better conductor tha copper and gold, its used less as it is the least stable in open air and oxidisation, being on the surface will affect the higher frequencies whic is why sliver plated copper wire is a thing. The soft sleve techniquie they use make scence as it reduces the capactance and would affect the characteristic impeandace of the cable. I suspect like you I can't justify the cost, but definately a nice to have.
Thanks, Michael! The cost is nothing to sneeze at.
When they say silver is the best conductor, they do not have audio reproduction in mind at all. Gold wire sounds amazing, and aluminum with gold over it is employed in some of JPS Labs best cables. A 6 Moon Audio review says that one such JPS Labs cable sounded better than their reference cable which cost 4 times, the around $900 of the JPS. It dethroned their reference using gold coated aluminum wire.
Honesty is what it is
All I can add is the fact that as a seasoned audio enthusiast and regarding cables and interconnects. 1 there is little or not debate among listeners that have been working on their systems for decades. But there's tons of debate about cables amoung listeners new to this end it seems to go against your reasoning ability. So here's another fact about this. In order for you to here this your system must be set up correctly!! If your speakers are flat against the wall, and your electronics are not transparent. The please shut the hell up about the price I am willing to pay for cables. But for those of you willing to do the work to your room, take the pains of proper speaker placement and listening location, and don't stop until your system disappears in a good sound stage. Then lastly introduce better cables. The diffedence can be huge and startling. I will never forget back in 1979 when I brought home my polk audio cables and ran them on my Magneplaners. WOW.
It took me a loooong time to find that speaker, listening position sweet spot. Now I have it taped out whenever we have to move them.
One is paying for the skill and expertise in building a product not just cost of material. An analogy, cables are like arteries connecting organs (components ) together. One can have the BEST (most EXPENSIVE components) organs but what happens if arteries are not functioning properly?
Excellent point
Well something I knew all along cables make a difference so what is the point everybody makes there cables by hand,some companies have the machines to weave there geometrically windings but other than than there connections are by hand
I remember back when CDs came out and I spent a few extra bucks for Monster Cable interconnects from the CD player to my A1000 Yamaha Integrated Amp. I could hear the difference and I don't believe in God. I am the most skeptical person that says show me, but it is true. I would never spend 1000$ on cables, but common sense middle priced OFC multi wire connects for speakers do produce better sound. I can't afford silver but would love to audition them on my system.
Cheers! 🍺
Great video!
$700 for a SINGLE 4 foot cable... I want whatever people are smoking. I bought high(er) quality independently hand-made cables many years back due to accolades on an AV forum. Recently, 1 of the terminals just fell off. When I moved into a bigger room I decided to make my own 12 gauge. I can't hear a difference. No brainer for me when we move into a new home in 2 years... Save your money and DIY! Just enjoy the music instead of throwing money into a rabbit hole...
None of the cable stuff makes any sense. The electricity going through Romex in your house to be suddenly transformed by a five-foot power cable makes no sense. The signal being bounced around your amp in tiny traces of copper becoming suddenly mesmerizing after passing through a $1500 interconnect and then back into the copper traces and 20-cent resistors in the next component, that makes no sense. Nothing but a double-blind test would convince me I’m wrong. Otherwise it’s just people - good people, honest people - doing what people do. Talking themselves into stuff.
🍺
Take the $1 Million Dollar Challenge. Maybe you’re the golden ears!
Way out of my league!!!!
Yes !! Connector is the hard part the cable maybe 5 to 10 percent I make my own cables experience with Cell Towers to Critical Care of Hospital equipment I had to grow up making my own is better than buying when use silver connectors.
But if you don't have the skill or friends capable just pay for the peace of mind.
The Millivolts and Microamps need a smooth pathway to your ears.
Someday I'd love to build my own as well
I started getting interested in science because so many people said you can’t hear Cable and all of us did. I was trying to figure out what was going on. 🤔
Cheers to that. I produce a science education podcast and am very skeptical at times
Yikes… $1000 for a single 3m RCA is steep.
If they were $30 then nobody would buy them.
"Tell Michael it was just business"
No no no… it is not merely Yikes. It is Yikes x10 to the second power. I Metrr of RCA is 1,995.00 clams. That is according to the Darwin website. And I believe it might double since the turntable to phono stage has 2 cables; one for each chanel. So so that will come to slightly over (tax included) the price of my amp. I am
Not in the demographic$ of this chanel. Not sorry.
I hate scams like this. There's simply nothing to justify the price in terms of material or labor involved, even if you want to just have something in your system that's overengineered. They also have a $1500 AC cable....yikes
With all due respect, where have you been? Makers of audio equip. price stuff according to how good they think it is sonically. Not what it costs to make. Somethink like a cable brings that out more than most things. If they think something makes a $1500 difference, they'll price it at that even if it's a piece of string. Used cables often sell for 1/2 or less of retail price, especially if they are somewhat older models. But even some of those are a bit out of reach. I was looking at a used circa 2007 Stealth Indra the other day; but it's $3,000 used price is out of the question right now. I'm near broke till I get a rebate on something
People should use pure gold which is the best leader! Cryptonite is also good! Ask superman!!!!
🤣
While I think spending the extra money (at some point diminishing returns will take over) for a cable that’s built well is the only way to go, I do think the only way to be sure you’re hearing a difference is with a blind listening tests. Don’t get me wrong, I like nice cables that look awesome and I’m glad people who buy them think they’re worth it.
"While I think spending the extra money (at some point diminishing returns will take over) for a cable that’s built well is the only way to go, I do think the only way to be sure you’re hearing a difference is with a blind listening tests. Don’t get me wrong, I like nice cables that look awesome and I’m glad people who buy them think they’re worth it."
Why are you questioning whether or not our host heard a difference? Why do you believe that he is not sure?
Have you asked him to do blind listening tests when he tested other components?
@@NoEgg4u He can certainly respond to my comment. I look forward to knowing if blind listening tests occurred.
It’s also an opinion which I’m sure is ok to express
@@videoproboston2450 By all means. Ask away. My comment, to you, was not to dissuade you from asking questions.
I asked you questions. Please answer my questions. Just as you would appreciate our host answering your questions, I would appreciate you answering my questions.
@@NoEgg4u I’m sorry I didn’t phrase my comment in the way that you would’ve liked. I meant no harm to the CZcams community by making a comment in a comment section. If the host would like to respond and discuss I’d be happy to have that conversation. I’d like nothing more than to believe expensive cables sound distinctively different cables that are made well.
@@videoproboston2450 "I’m sorry I didn’t phrase my comment in the way that you would’ve liked."
You have no obligation, whatsoever, to phrase your comments to anyone's liking, other than your own liking. It is kind of you to write that you are sorry. But you have nothing to be sorry about. You have absolutely nothing to apologize for.
"I meant no harm to the CZcams community by making a comment in a comment section."
100% correct. You caused no harm. Perish the thought.
With the above in mind, please answer my questions. For your reference, I am including my questions here:
Why are you questioning whether or not our host heard a difference? Why do you believe that he is not sure?
Have you asked him to do blind listening tests when he tested other components?
The two things that should dominate the cost of a cable are the connectors and the quality and makeup of the wire and insulation/covering. If you have ever DIY connectors you know you can spend a lot of money buying audiophile jewelry-quality connectors. The biggest problem is marketing hype, it is not always easy to cut through the BS and get to any facts that will help make the decision. Some companies will demo cables which is a great idea, best to be able to return expensive cables if they don't work in your application or just make no perceivable difference in the sound.
Very true, Bret! Darwin does offer 30 days (I verified that last night).
I’m using Darwin interconnects with my Denon CD player. The difference-improvement is absolutely audible! My CD collection is now all new!! Amazing increase in detail and resolution! And I too was a skeptic.
If you use a quality power cord with your CD player, you will get inkier, quieter backgrounds. Voices and instruments will have better separation. But it might not jump out at you immediately.
For me, I was into my 3rd or 4th song, when I realized that I was "in the zone". I was really enjoying the music.
When I put back the stock power cord, the downgrade was immediately noticeable. When I then went back to the quality power cord, it was like a breath of fresh air.
CD players benefit the most from using a quality power cord. If you get only one quality power cord, use it for your CD player.
@@NoEgg4uWhat power cable are you using?
@@alexandernapoli6104 I am using a Shunyata Research Python power cable for my DAC. I believe it is 10 years old. So I do not know what Shunyata has today.
I used to use it for my CD player, when I had a CD player. I no longer have a CD player. I now have a DAC.
The store where I purchased my stereo, years later, handing me a power cable and told me to demo it on my CD player. They told me that the CD player will benefit the most, due to CD players feeding noise back into the electrical path. Somehow, that Shunyata power cable stops that noise from leaking out.
I never thought that I had any noise, until I used that power cord and heard the difference.
There was nothing that got worse. It was only improvement.
I have seen reviews, comparing Shunyata Research's power cables to Audioquest's power cables.
Audioquest wins. But the reviewers stated that Shuyata's power cables are very close to Audioquest's power cables, and they would be happy with either. But perhaps Shuyata Research now wears the crown? Both company's power cables are highly recommended.
Cables make a difference, but they are system dependent, buy the best you can afford.
The human brain is very susceptible to expectation bias. The mind plays a lots of tricks on us. You should do an ABX blind test to see if you can consistently pick out the new cable as better. Many years ago, I thought that power cables and USB cables improved the sound. I then did a blind ABX test with the help of my daughter. I could not pick the 'better' one more than 50% of the time, which means I might as well have been guessing.
Then again, given the delicate nature of weak phono signals, a cable might make a difference in sound, due to difference in capacitance, etc. But I feel like it shouldn't cost tens of thousands or even a thousand dollars for a cable that performs beyond human hearing. Tens of thousands of dollars are better spent on extensive room treatment, which will result in measurable and audible improvements.
Good point about putting it into room treatment, much more bang for buck from what I understand. Capacitance might be part of it, one of my amps has a direct circuit mode to bypass the pre-amp section (and all the electrolytic capacitors) and there's a definite but subtle boost to clarity. Can I put a high sticker price on that clarity nudge? I've also found resistance in the signal path can affect things. But how much different in terms of capacitance or resistance are fancy copper cables over other pure copper cables?
Everything everyone hears is in their head. That’s where everything is processed. Unlike a medication a placebo effect is just as real as any other different. If you think it sounds better, it sounds better.