Avengers: Endgame is Terrible
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- čas přidán 4. 05. 2022
- Avengers: Endgame is a deeply flawed film. It's the product of misplaced narrative priorities, and not just those of its creators. This film is what happens when writing is beholden to spectacle, and fan service is held in higher regard than good storytelling.
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What I hate the most is how they treated Thor’s depression compared to how they treated Wanda’s mental illness.
Wanda committed atrocities as a response to her inability to deal with grief and Marvel loves to give excuses for her actions. A fake sympathy for the villain.
Thor just got fat because of his deep depression and Marvel treated him as an incompetent slob that all his character arc before that must be reversed. He isn’t fit to rule so he has to give a throne to a drunken slaver who had a track record of selling thousands if not millions innocent people to their death for alcohol money.
Finally, someone else who sees Valkyrie for what she actually was.
Yep Valk is an evil slaver which Marvel (and Thor who was enslaved by her) conveniently forget about. Also we are never shown how she and the others survived off that ship and Thanos' attack at the beginning of Infinity War.
@@samr8603 She is way worse than Wanda yet was barely criticized. At least there are many of the fans called out Wanda for her actions but not for Valkyrie.
@@samr8603 not confirmed but people are saying the dude who sent Hulk to Earth did it, cant take a whole ship so he did it group by group or sum like that
Also the fact that he's only known her for like....a day. Like after immediately after ragnorok was endgame so....yh like a day.
The moment Infinity War ended I told my kids: "don't worry, they'll use time travel to bring them all back."
I thought I was joking.
@Alex based on newer films and shows that's becoming more and more true
Lol
Ye
@Alex milking?
That would be why the mcu seems to be the msheu now.
Easier to milk from a biological female.
I didn't mind learning of the time travel plot point while watching Endgame, since I understood there would still be worldwide upheaval. The time travel itself was largely unsatisfying, however, and the "blip" has afterward only been mentioned in passing, at best shown dramatically in one hospital scene in WandaVision. Most of the time, it's handwaved as a thing that happened and got fixed, not as a tragedy that would still shake society to its core.
Honestly. If Thor was kept as he was in the movie, but with it treated as sad and sympathetic rather than a laugh, I'd love it. Depression isn't a joke.
Like imagine Thor in Endgame, you can still have New Asgard, but you have like a big castle where Thor resides sitting in his throne. Kinda like how Asgard was originally. He doesn’t want to help outsiders but only his own people in New Asgard, and if he was to rejoin the Avengers maybe have a line to convince him. Again this is just my idea.
I noticed a lot of the fat jokes made against Thor weren’t in the original script and were improved by the actors. I think they were enjoying themselves too much to understand the gravity of the story as only RDJ got to read the whole script for the movie.
@@getmeouttahere1209 Why did only ONE actor get to read the script!?
@@eway44 they wanted to prevent spoilers cuz the actors started to slip up around the 2016-2018 years of the mcu.
@@getmeouttahere1209 still, it makes problems like THIS!
So did Steve go back in time and then just leave his best friend to be brainwashed and turned into a sleeper agent, even though he knew who had him and where to find him?
And didn't bother to free Isaac Walker
Kennedy assassination, 9/11, Tony's parents being murdered and a thousand other small and large tragedies that he's aware of...
I guess he just sat there, watching tv with Peggy in 2001, pretending to be surprised and horrified?
Does not a single one of you understand how that would change the time-line? Doctor Strange literally saw one possibility of Thanos being beaten, but all of you have to pretend to be smart.
@addison_v_ertisement1678 Steve staying in the past should have changed the timeline. The whole time travel plot line is complete nonsense. I'm just pointing out that the Steve we see in all of these movies would have been on the first flight to Russia as soon as he decided to stay. And Thanos was already beaten at that point anyway.
@@criticalfailgaming1976 The fact that you're calling it nonsense says that you don't understand it. You didn't counter a single one of my points.
My issue with Thor isn't that he's a fat and depressed alcoholic. My issue is that it's mocked and made fun of
You could say they turned Thor into Homer Simpson in Endgame
my issue is both, him bein a fat and depressed alcoholic and turned into a joke
@@serily4524 exactly. What they did to Thor goes against everything the character is. That's not how he would react to failure. That's never how he reacts to failure. Not only that but he also hides, and then later completely abandoned his own people. This after just learning about the importance of Asgard as a people, and not just a place in Ragnorak. Undid all the lessons and character development from previous films.
chance for alotta insight on the character and the writer's could've had a good mental health arc for thor (a better one at least,one without all the fucking jokes like jeez)
@@markanine562yeah the Jokes for Depressed Thor was Annoying
Hulk had one of the most anticlimactic endings to a story arc I've ever seen.
He didn't even really have one did he? No rematch with Thanos, is given the snap (what I think should have been the natural resolution to Thor's arc by having a chance to redeem himself of inadvertently allowing Thanos to snap, reversing his greatest achievement in revenge for all the horror Thanos brought on Thor) but then has to be saved by Giant Man and just kind of disappears in the background of helping Steve return the artefacts with absolutely no clear image of what he's doing next or any kind of reflection on how the Infinity War and the Endgame affected him. He got ultra shafted. Plus, they never even showed him become Professor Hulk, with no interaction between Bruce and Hulk putting aside their differences to become something more. Instead he just became The Credible Hulk who's embarrassed by smashing anything and who dabs, which they thought was funny. I was not laughing.
@@user-nv2wt4hi8t He did absolutely get ultra shafted, well put
that's because his story isn't over?
@@user-nv2wt4hi8t but he threw that bench when he found out Natasha died, sooo emotional 😂😂
@@-Dildo.Baggins. Good Lord man, remember when The Incredible Hulk punched the ground and it was so tame and limp that it barely made a sound let alone actually made any impact that translated to the audience members? I'm not saying he had to break the place down and endanger his team members but good God if the Hulk hits something in devastation, it normally means something more than just a slight thump.
Something I really wanted to see was Peter Quill mourning the loss of Gamora and dealing with the knowledge that he ruined the plan of taking the Gauntlet from Thanos and cost the lives of half the universe. Maybe him and Nebula could have talked, both understanding that they feel partly to blame or believe they could have done more and lost someone important to them both.
luckily vol 3 got you covered.
@@SHESTAGOOEYFROMOPIUSehhh Peter never really acknowledged how he royally screwed everything up, all he ever talked about was Gamora
@@bry-guy4177 He literally says in the movie that he got half the universe killed. So yes, he did acknowledge it.
How is it Quills fault? I think you meant the writers not the character....
They didn't even have to get all the stones. All they had to do was get the Time Stone from the past, then use it on Thanos' gauntlet to revert the stones to their original state.
There you go, you now have all six stones.
True
yeah like, all the stones together contribute to a "wish" of sorts that can do something extraordinary like delete half of life or even self destruction.@@TheNwr1
No they did have to get all of them. How could they do it to that degree though just using one stone?
That really wouldn't work.
I don’t think that’s how the time stone works
@@thatmovienitpicker8070thanos literally does exactly that to vision in infinity war
WOOOOOOOOOOOO LESSS GOOOOOOOO!
Now we're gonna wait for Rags to post his Mando video
This is where the fun begins
@@ponczos_2293 Then the trilogy will be completely when MauLer finishes his TFA autopsy.
@@Zathren won’t be for another few years lol
Good times.
Still destroys me that the only two things Tony needed to solve time travel was a single late night and Paul Rudd reminding him that time travel movies are a thing.
@Clark Hathaway I really like how it took them 5 years to realize they could use time travel.
@@DOOM_guyEditz433 I like how Tony was working on it the entire 5 years and Scott just happened to give him the missing piece which was the quantum realm and so "Rather than invent time travel completely, he just had to make some sort of time-space gps. It wasn't a single evening, it was a few days. His AI systems allow for quick and fast calculations and simulations, allowing him to think of and test multiple possibilities in a relatively short time.
Tony is a super genius and has developed full AI and nano-robotics. Him taking "five years" is understandable and reflected in both his persona and physical being post snap. He probably was written to have had an epiphany, not doing so within a "single night". Also he wasn't working on it alone. Professor Hulk and even Scott Lang helped Tony Stark. He just managed to figure it out, which makes sense for being the second smartest person in Marvel comics to Reid Richards. His IQ is at least 186.
@@isaofujii7817 He didn't seriously consider the idea until the biggest clown of the MCU posited the idea and it's implied it took him a matter of days to crack it.
@@ClarkHathaway3238 Right. And that "clown" has basically a super-computer's worth of intellect. Again, you should consider the source material and look up the word "Eureka moment" because that kind of epiphany is essentially what happened with Tony Stark. Yes, he then was able to patch a way days later. Why? Really, because it's fiction and kinda in the same way that CSI can solve crimes in a manner of days rather than years. Even then, have you seen what all Tony can do? haha. This isn't really anything all to surprising in comparison.
What really bugs me , is how the "infinity snap" was undone with another snap (on top of that , Russo brothers lied to everyone that "there won't be any resurrections") , yet after Tony dies, nobody tries to bring him back using the time or reality stones. Heroes getting brought back to life ought to be earned - this felt very cheap.
They tried to bring back Nat and tha didn’t work, what would be the point of bringing back Tony when you know that it wouldn’t work?! Stupid
Someone already mentioned why they didn't try (because Black Widow still stayed dead when Hulk tried), still a dogshit excuse tbh.
The real reason? Robert Downey Jr. wanted to retire (at least that's what I remember).
In Infinity War, the Snap seemed to be an "erase half of living creatures" button. In Endgame, it was a wish with the Dragon Balls. 😅
@@Matt-wb8ni what? did you pay attention to the film? Nat couldn't be brought back because her soul was the price for the stone, Tony died because his body couldn't handle the use of the snap, he absolutely could have been brought back to life somehow
@@Matt-wb8ninat was sacrificed to the soul stone. At no point was it ever said that being killed by the gauntlet barred you from being resurrected. Vision literally blew up with the mindstone and Thanos rewound time to bring it back. Tony’s revival should’ve been possible.
Natasha died and no one even acknowledged that.
Who?
Thor almost single-handedly killed Thanos with 6 stones in Infinity War. The fact that he and Cap combined couldn’t even scratch him with 0 stones in this movie really fucks with the world-building
Yeah not only did they have to nerf Thor because he was the strongest avenger after Infinity War (if not most powerful entity in the MCU, period).
@@RandomizedCTRL And yet they boost Captain Marvel to the point where she receives a Thanos headbutt like a fly despite that same headbutt knocking out The God Of Thunder (who in the comics is always the greatest physical threat to Thanos and has had many battles 1-1 with him) in one. And then you remember that the same Korath who knew both her in her binary form and Thanos called Thanos 'the most powerful being in the universe' in Guardians, yet here he can't even make her blink, in the final moments of the final battle of the Infinity Saga? It's like they ignored their own continuity in favour of pandering at the expense of their legacy characters. Oh wait, that's exactly what they did, given how all the way back in 2016, at a time when the MCU was still nerfing their characters heavily and yet Feige was rushing in with his 'She'll easily be the most powerful character we've ever had' crap at the expense of the actual favourites and the actual powerful characters like Thor, Strange, Hulk, Wanda (although she has continually received justice in terms of her power and revenge on Thanos).
Yeah, thor with the stormbreaker needs like 2 seconds of thanos(with the full gauntlet) being distracted to completely rip him apart
@Tom Right?! In Captain Marvel she struggles to throw back a missile yet in Endgame they boost her to such game breaking proportion that, in the final fight to save the universe from a genocidal maniac, a culmination of 20 odd movies, they do Thanos such a disservice as a terrifying threat that they show him completely out of control and authority of the situation, being easily overpowered by Captain Marvel before she ignores his headbutt like a fly. And yes he's shown to be resourceful by using the power stone, which is great and true to Thanos, but making him look not just weak (for no reason anyway given Captain Marvel has never traditionally been anywhere close to in his realm of power, getting one shotted by him in the comics) but like he's just shat his pants, wide eyed terrified despite being the same being who smiled a mad grin at the awesome strength of the Hulk, who confidently walked the same Tony down who made him bleed and brutally punished him, who taunted and baited Thor even despite what would have been a mortal axe wound. It's just so bizarre they changed him entirely in favour of Captain Marvel being so broken that she makes him shit himself despite ruining all tension, all stakes and all menace of Thanos in his final moments of, what should be filled with terror.
@@user-nv2wt4hi8t Not to mention, logically, her being more powerful than a dude with MULTIPLE stones made zero sense as she gained abilities from just one. Blech.
People were so overwhelmed with emotion seeing so many heroes in one place, that they didn't realize what a waste Endgame and Thanos were, how much better it could have been.
I still liked it. I know it's a simple and maybe wrong opinion but watching it made me happy. So happy that I didn't even care for all the mistakes. If I were to defend it in any way I would say that because of the way the mcu is build it didn't need to have a regular story structure because it is the climax of all the movies. But I'm probably wrong.
You're out of your mind the movie is amazing and unprecedented. It's not perfect obviously but that is not what we wanted, we got what we wanted.
i honestly wish it didn't put too much Superheroes in the Movie
@@Byronic19134 I didn't get what I wanted. who are those we? Infinity War was great (that is, if you choose to ignore how dumb Thanos' motivation and ideas are) and Endgame is just a nostalgia-fest that not only doesn't make sense, but also shits on multiple characters and their arcs and ignores common sense just for writers to not try. Endgame falls apart the second you turn on your brain
@@Byronic19134 It's cheap and emotionally manipulative. It assassinates the character of every single avenger and plays it off as catharsis.
The thing that bothered me most about the captain America time travel was he went back in time and didn't rescue bucky... how???
Or stop any of the other bad stuff he had learned was going to happen by living in the present. Especially to his friends he made there.
why would any of that matter? The timeline ceases to exist as soon as he leaves it. It is true that the time stuff doesn't make consistent sense but if we go by "Loki" rules, then only the prime timeline is allowed to exist, meaning Steve basically lived out a dream of sorts and then returned to the main timeline.
"oh no peggy look they hit the second tower who would've guessed something like this would've happened"
THANK YOU FOR THIS
endgame has irked me from the beginning. I remember walking out of the theatre opening night deeply unsettled and confused. I kept thinking to myself, "that was it? that's what we got for an ending?"
I felt the same way I felt watching The Last Jedi. So disappointed and confused.
It's crazy to think that half the MCU is only alive because one heroic rat pressed a button. I guess if the rat didn't do that it would've been eaten by a purple dragon at the end of time.
The rat is the true hero of the mcu
The rat had to press the button or it would get arrested by the TVA for being a devient 🙄
Yes, a Rat stumbled on a button in a garage the only real problem is that people have done the math and it would not have taken that long like a rat would of found that button within weeks because they are so infested in that part of San Fran.
all criminals that hawkeye killed on his post-snap spree are still dead after culk undoes the snap
If a rat can simply turn on the machine, why didn't any human do in the past five years?
Fun isn’t something one considers when critiquing media. But I must admit…this does put a smile on my face.
Dread it... run from it... Fringle arrives just the same.
Best comment! 😂😂
@@AnAmericanMusician but how you ask? Alas the secrets of the goo are yet to be revealed.
Don't say stupid things.
@@scottchaison1001 But you did. No one likes a hypocrite
fun fact: subsequent stories did NOT address these time travel issues
Nor will they ever I believe
Still haven’t : D
After Endgame and Far From Home barely paid lip service to the consequences of the Snap i was a little annoyed but i didn’t really think about it. Your segment on the consequences of the Snap however has opened a pandora’s box frustration inside my head now and also how much of a missed opportunity it was to not see the remaining heroes (and possibly villains) having to operate in this post apocalyptic galaxy. Its just like “oh that happened but things were mostly the same i guess” when in reality it would have been Mad Max with superheroes.
For me it boggles my mind as to why, if they’re introducing _time-travel_ to resolve the problem, they don’t undo the Snap, because it still happening permanently alters the setting. Like besides that stupid Falcon and the Winter Soldier show, all other MCU properties only really pay lip-service to the Snap, not its consequences, just that it happened.
If they knew that the MCU was going to continue after Infinity War, then they shouldn’t have had the Snap at all.
I enjoy Endgame but fully recognize just how utterly flawed the story is.
Honestly imo wat really fuks endgame up is the 5yr jump. Not even a montage or nothing just text on the screen 5yrs later, and its not really addressed. Also what they did to hulk was unforgivable 😖
@@Eking-su3tr Out of all the things wrong in Endgame (the plot holes, the time travel plot, the treatment of Thor and Hulk, the fact that a random rat pressing a button started the whole movie), the 5 year time skip is NOT one of them.
@@manolgeorgiev9664 bro everything u listed is cuz of the 5 yr jump. The rat, hulk, thor, all from the 5 yr jump.
It all feels out of place cuz they rushed it.
@@Eking-su3tr you can literally make a 5 year jump without those problems and a story without a 5 year jump that still has those problems. The fact that 5 years passed is inconsequential.
If only more people were like you. A single sentence acknowledging and not dismissing the criticisms but saying you like it anyway.
One of the biggest problems with the MCU is that every time someone writes a new film they have the mindset of "fuck what already exists and the current story, I'm just gonna tell *my* story" which leads to all the contradictions between stories and the shitting over previous films that we keep seeing
Understand about this mechanic is that there are no alternate realities everything takes place in one universe for better or worse most of the bad time travel films at this world said the temporal need to be lovely time travel system is by far the most complicated one and I personally find it can be quite difficult to let me give you an example of how it works imagine Bob builds a time machine in 2021 and travels back to 1904 analogically 1900 Bob existed before 2021 Bob use the time machine whatever Bob did in the past was already baked into the
well you didnt really know anything about the mcu how it is now? they need to talk to the heads like kevin feige if they want to change things
@@FreekyPower Yeah, exactly. Which is why Feige is the greatest sham in this whole ordeal.
@@jamesezzard29
Did you even watch the video? Theres multiple type of time travel. Thats the first point being made. You can't just say its wrong because its not this type.
The problem is internal consistency. Choose your rules and stay with them.
Endgame has 80% Timelines and 20% others which completly fucks it up.
If they went 100% timeline, time travel can only be used for heist of unchanging limitless things. Otherwise you're just crrating problem for that worlds avenger and they'll make time line travel to steal from you and before you know it... Interdimensional war and dead people doppleganger being kidnapped left and right.
Every good thing just poofing out of existance as other worlds steals your ressource.
Timeline time travels create no problem.
But when steve was on the bench and other things, they fucked it up.
@@90enemies lol wut
I remember going to the London premiere of Infinity War and being absolutely blown away. It was one of the best films id ever seen, the way they’d managed to juggle so many characters and yet give them all room to breathe was staggering. The ending blew me away and added real stakes to the story for the first time.
And then the following year, I went to the premiere for Endgame. As soon as I realised they were going to do a time travel story my heart practically broke. Endgame was so bad it’s not even funny. Yeah, the final battle is cool, but they aren’t even fighting the Thanos who did them wrong!! He got away scott free while they fight some other dude!!
They fucked up Hulks story, Black Widows, Captain America’s, Thors….
Just awful stuff. And the MCU hasn’t recovered since
Exactly!!
They handled the ending as best they could, thats all that matters
Black Widow? It wasn't endgame that did that. It was her own movie
@@pepefrog558 Claiming this movie is the best ending the writers were capable of is a damning indictment of their abilities. They may not have intended to make a movie this bad, but they did - kind of like I suspect you didn't intend to burn them so hard for making it, but you did. And that's all that matters.
I wouldn't say thanos got away Scott free, he kinda lost his head lol
I 100% agree though
The thing that really gets me is that there’s no connection between the heroes and thanos from the past since they killed him in the beginning. And time travel makes me ask so many questions
Thanos never cared about the heroes, just his mission. Past Thanos found out he had accomplished his goal, which made him push harder. The heroes were always trying to stop Thanos
The decision to kill our Thanos in the beginning of this movie took all the tension built up from Infinity War out of this movie.
@@eugeneperry8347 exactly my point
Thanos invaded earth in 2012. The avengers defeated his army. He knows them and says so.
@histguy101 no. Loki invaded Earth in 2012 using some of Thanos forces. There's no interaction between our heroes from Endgame and Thanos until Guardians and really Infinity War.
Wait, Dr. Strange looked forward through time to view 14,000,604 timelines of them failing to beat Thanos. You're telling me that out of 14 million timelines, Strange never saw far enough ahead to see the TVA pop in and prune everything? If the TVA knew he was looking and just waited until he stopped to prune that universe, what if he looked thousands of years into the future? Would the TVA wait thousands of years to prune that timeline? Wouldn't that make the "one sacred timeline" concept irrelevant?
That's because the TVA didn't exist until the mentally impaired, college educated (but I repeat myself) bonobo who wrote Loki: The Sylvie Show word-defecation retconed them into existence.
The existence of the TVA really does ruin it. If the avengers success was part of the sacred timeline then every failed plan is just pruned anyway, they won by default.
Every single marvel show post Endgame literally contradicted everything.
@@TimedRevolver sounds like an convenient excuse to make you feel better about gaping plot holes, maybe you shouldn't come off as a rabid ape for no reason
@@TimedRevolver They have a rage boner for shit writing. Get out of here with your poorly written fuccgirls.
i hate how they made a mockery out of Thor's depression, the theatre was laughing everytime he was on the screen, it was so annoying and i absolutely HATE that cheese whiz comment.
The fact that Chris Hemsworth was totally OK with even allowing that to happen, it’s just straight up more ridiculous. Or maybe simply the studio is just paying him to justify his character assassination.
I hated it too , however you have to admit the meta commerty about how a few months of living a modern lifestyle of videogames,beer, fatty foods , is enough to destroy even thors physically fit frame . I liked phat Thor I thought he looked more like Thor should look as a God who eats and drinks all day .
@@osmanyousif7849 - Nah for real, cuz there was stuff Joss Whedon wanted Gal Gadot to do as Wonder Woman, that she flat out REFUSED. (Like when the Flash tripped, fell & landed in her tits, for a cheap laugh) He had to bring in a body double cuz she straight up wouldn't even come to the set, she was so furious. She felt it dumbed down & unnecessarily over sexualized the character. And she was right. It was one of the stupidest scenes in "Josstice League".
And I only bring this up to make your point that these actors DO have some power to refuse to do certain scenes, in order to protect their own brand, or to protect the image of the character they are playing. Chris Hemsworth could have done the same for Thor but...
I honestly hated half of Rhody’s dialogue in general, he was infuriatingly obnoxious with his constant stupid jokes. Same with Ant-man
That’s how most people react to depression tho. Sometimes worse. Worked for me.
Wait so does Hydra conquer the world in the Endgame timeline because Steve went back to 1945 but lived happily ever after with Peggy and therefore doesn’t sacrifice himself to stop Hydra’s plan? The worst part of this whole time travel debacle is they could’ve used it to inspire a lot of cool new takes on their stories. Imagine a movie where Steve selfishly didn’t save the world because he lived his whole life a hero and decided to enjoy life for once, so Hydra wins, and a new hero also based in the mid 20th century has to rise to the challenge and defeat Hydra. They had so many opportunities and decided to make shit like She-Hulk instead smh.
That would be a perfect What If story.
I don't see why there couldn't be two Steve Rogers. One saving people and the same Steve from the future living with agent Carter, she can keep it secret.
@@craftpaint1644 ngl it wouldve been hilarious seeing some hydra agents' confused and terrified reactions at the sight of TWO steve rogers fighting off their forces (assuming they get involved enough to force steve from the future back into action TEMPORARILY just to stave them off/get them away from him and peggy)
THANK YOU for defending that it doesn't really matter which version of Time Travel is chosen in a story, as long as that choice is CONSISTENT and worked effectively.
I personally find Temporal Mutability (also frequently called Closed Time Loops) to be the most satisfying, because having the whole story feel like a puzzle falling into place with consumers knowing the end result first but seeing how we got there via convoluted methods is what I call a good time. But I can enjoy any of the three types if they're done well enough, and indeed have and will.
But... BUT... handwaving paradoxes or MIXING the types with no rhyme or reason is just... infuriating. It shows a clear lack of regard for worldbuilding, even for immediate plot relevance, that just transcends mere immersion and has my fuming from my core. I despise lazy time travel stories, because they can be so, so beautiful with the right amount of effort and finesse.
Were you paying attention o what kind of time travel it was? It was the branching theory, so whatever change they made would just create a separate universe.
They clearly wrote Infinity War without knowing how Endgame would go. The snap should have stayed and only the actors who wanted to retire should have been snapped.
"only the actors who wanted to retire should have been snapped"
So almost no one?
Thanos should have
snapped harder…
Snap ya fingers
Or wait about 10 movies before bringing everyone back or something
I always thought it would be baller as fuck to permanently end the mcu with infinity war
I kinda wish that they had ended phases 3 with Infinity War and then spent phase 4 exploring the characters who survived the snap, show us the world, show us how the characters got to the points that they were in in Endgame. Then end phases 4 with Endgame.
What would be the point of that?
@@Matt-wb8ni gives proper character development unlike the trash we got in endgame. Plus it would be a massive change in the status quo which would allow them to put characters through different story’s then what they’re doing now
@@NightMare-zm8mh trash character development? It was very well done in endgame. Especially during the time travel heist where the characters actually get moments with their past relatives. Plus, the movie wasn’t one big character arc, it was a conclusion to many.
@@Matt-wb8ni mmmmmmm…I think you need to rewatch it
Yes, snap should not be undone because after 5 years people move on and population growth back exponentially.
Yet again the comics did it better. In the comics the disappearances caused by the snap only lasted 24 hours and most importantly EVERYTHING was undone.
Edit: Holy shit. You did something I never thought possible. You made the whole “show your work” thing that was drilled into my head in math class actually make sense as to why it’s important.
Yeah if the Snap has only lasted 24 hours, while I admit would be a bit of a copout, at least wouldn’t fuck the franchise going forward.
The other issue involving the Tesseract, is that… it was stolen twice. Loki steals it once in 2012 and Tony steals it a second time in 1970. The 2012 timeline CANNOT be set back to normal, because they don’t have a second Space Stone to bring there.
I went into Endgame blind, and immediately got super sad when I realised they were going with a time travel plot.
If you were expecting the time travel plot from the heaps of leaks, it's way easier to digest the bullshit. Part of the reason why I enjoyed the movie so much.
They really missed the opportunity to do inter-universal stuff.
I heard rumours that they could use time travel, so I naturally thought 'Oh, they're going to confront Thanos, fight him, reclaim the Time Stone somehow and use that to bring everyone back! Alright!'.
So when they established that the stones (the most powerful things in the universe that hold its timestream together, according to the Ancient One) got destroyed so easily, I was so disappointed.
How else were they supposed to reverse the snap lmao?
@@elias_xp95 THEY WEREN'T. IT SUCKS THAT THEY DID.
The thought Evil or Dark Thor makes my mouth water. That would have been so badass. Instead of sadness, that trauma turns into hate which corrupts his good intentions. He essentially becomes overprotective and more hateful towards enemies. Besides his current direction is undoing 10 years worth of build up
The thing is, they KNOW that fat Thor is shit, they hide it in all the trailer, I don't even know that Fat Thor is a thing until I saw it in theater.
@@protato911 They don't know that as it isn't shit. Huh? Wasn't Thor in in the trailers though?
Killing Thanos and then introducing a less interesting mustache twirling Thanos completely deflated all the tension Infinity War had.
I remember watching this movie, but I don't remember anything about it... Which is something that happens to me more and more often, even just a month after watching something. This would mean that either I'm getting old really quickly and my memory is failing, or movies are getting more bland and forgettable as we speak... Both of these options are bad, but for the common good, I hope that I just got senile at a young age.
Did you stop to consider it might be both?
@@Full_Throttle_Axolotl Who are you? And who am I? Where are we? Why are we?
They completely screwed themselves by allowing Thanos to "use the stones to destroy the stones." Instead of just defeating Thanos to retrieve the stones, or having to locate the stones after Thanos disposed of them, and then undoing the Snap, they instead FORCED THEMSELVES to break the very reality THEY CREATED.
Bingo!!! Exactly.
Honestly, Endgame would have been great had they had a similar macguffin idea where the Avengers are trying to get the gauntlet back from Thanos with Thanos trying to prevent them from using it
And they will pay the consequences they set out for themselves oh shit I forgot the gauntlet was fucked shit
Also using the stones to destroy the stones is literally impossible, its one of the rules of the infinity stones
@@Eking-su3tr Was that ever said. I don´t remember that being a rule
Soooo basically Endgame is a classical example of a film that didn't do its homework when it comes to its story and relied solely on emotional payoffs to be regarded as a good film. Payoffs that were welcomed by the public because of the massive multiple years buildup to it.
It's kind of a unique case in film history when you think about it, because it's very hard to actually make your voice heard when saying "Endgame is bad" with all the anticipation that came with it.
In all honesty Endgame was truly just a hard mid movie that was saved by the cameos, fan service, and basically like you said the payoffs. If anyone had watch this to solely rate it as a film on its own it would probably get a 5/10 I still can’t believe they turned one of the most bad a$$ villains in history to a lame in the sequel. Like bro the hype was their they didn’t even have to do the work.
I even enjoyed Avenger's: Age of Ultron despite all of that films flaws more than Avenger's Endgame. At least that movie had a more understandable albeit busy plot.
@@zolod.uchiha5102 then u make it then
no they just thought people would understand what they are saying and showing theme they didnt include the fact that most people are dumb
@@zolod.uchiha5102 endgame isnt a good movie because its not made to watch it by itself its the ending to a story and for that it does everything right you are like the people who raged about Kingdom Hearts 3 being not udnerstandable for new people that didnt play the 40 games that came before imagine its called ENDGAME like what else can they do to tell you youi shouldnt think of it as a solo film
Thor was ruined, hulk was ruined, boring story, such baddd goofy jokes, and big finale was a big cgi fest, let me add the final battle(plan) made absolutely no sense.
The worst part was that even though Steve Rogers wouldn't give up, Chris Evans was done with the role. The movies in which these characters appear are based on the actors' contracts and if they're willing to extend it. They could've just had Captain America die alongside Tony, but they didn't want to do that since that isn't what many of us wanted. They sacrificed his character because the studio didn't want to take a financial risk by having him die but instead give him the one thing his character arc depended on giving up.
But Chris said he was happy to keep doing Captain America. It's RDJ who was getting sick of playing Ironman.
@@tabalugadragon3555 Wait fr?
@@NerdzTM yes, it was Marvel who decided Captain America's role is over in the MCU since Endgame.
@@tabalugadragon3555 Damn, and they didnt even let Chris sign another thing for more movies? You'd think more Cap stuff post-Endgame would bring in a TON of money, not to mention a lot more love and potential for Captain America overall
@@NerdzTM I guess they wanted to finish his story. Since he was one of the original avengers and it's called Avengers:Endgame. I guess they didn't finish Thor's and Hulk's stories because they had more potential. They wanted to "kill off" at least half of the original team.
I knew this movie was worse than infinity war, and that it had fan service, but I wasn't expecting the core of the movie to be so shallow.
In retrospect, the perfect foreshadowing for the MCU going forward
1:37:03
I mean its not a bad movie you just think its shallow and worse than infinity war, personally i like both the same
@@macvadda2318 Same but my favourite is still Endgame
@@macvadda2318 Did you just now realize that opinions on films are subjective? Cause your comment definitely alludes to you just now figuring that out.
Tbh Infinity War was worse, and its failure is the main reason Endgame was the way it was.
Steve's "retirement" should have come from a malfunction of some sort with the time traveling. He couldn't return, so he decided to live that simple life after doing what needed to be done for the "present". It shouldn't have been a choice, but a consequence of self sacrifice.
That would be cool Makes more sense
How would that be more satisfying than the character making a choice? The 2020s has nothing for him. His choice was his dignity, him finally putting himself first after years of being a good soldier.
@@MichaelSotoCE It is a choice counter to his character. He was defined as a person who does the opposite of that very act, so for him to make that choice without it being forced is counter to everything written about him and who he is. That is not to say I do not understand the choice, but having him be stuck, try to get back to the future, fail a bit and then notice he is letting his life and love slip away by obsessing over his sense of duty and so **then** deciding to live his life would have been more in character.
Then the choice would have been to keep trying in spite of everything, or decide that he had done all he could and trusting the future to his team. It just would have narratively made more sense. Well, at least more narratively satisfying.
if you want a good example of mcu’s desired “self sacrifice” angles check out aunt may in no way homr
@@Kilmoran yeah he WAS defined by his dedication to duty, but it was part of his character arc to stop being a soldier and start living for himself. It would be LESS satisfying if he was forced into this action instead of deciding for himself.
Remember this guy was thawed out of the ice, joined a superhero team, found out the gov he was working for was corrupt and about to be taken over by the same Nazis he was fighting in the 40s, then a DIFFERENT government tried to stop him from being the best hero he knew how to be, then he got in a big fight with one of his superhero besties, he became an international outlaw, he finally came back (at risk to his freedom) to fight Thanos, they compromised on some of their morals and yet they still lost.
Then bucky got evaporated, 5 years of grief go by, Sharon Carter is missing, Peggy is long dead, they have to fight Thanos again, tony and nat die, and you know what..... After everything..... He can't give up on his best girl.
Did you really need to see him make that decision? They trusted that the audience would understand. Why do you need to be spoon fed?
My head canon is that Cap went to the ancient one first and she reversed the stones to the casings they were originally in. But yeah, Endgame is an incoherent mess
Trying to explain this to anyone is physically impossible because they always ignore any points your giving and dismiss you as not knowing anything (actually just happened to me)
The curse of social media. People just blindly go by the headlines rather than looking at the details.
Or you know…he was wrong the second he tilted this “endgame is terrible”. Objectively he’s incorrect, this movie was a gem and phenomenal conclusion and you all follow this loser like sheep. It’s beyond embarrassing.
One thing that's weirdly underdiscussed in this extremely long video is the 5 year time skip. I'd be willing to accept a Thor who fell into an alcoholic depression, got fat, and shut himself off from the world and his responsibilities as the result of Infinity War. It's traumatic. The problem is that it comes at the end of a 5 year time skip, so we just cut to it for a gag, and we don't see the gradual fall of him going down. Same for the Hulk-they just skipped ahead 5 years and solved issues off-screen.
There's no resolution of Steve and Tony's conflict because 5 years passed and of course they experienced a lot in the meantime. We just don't get to see any of it and how their relationship grew over those 5 years. There's no examination of the greater state of the world during those 5 years, just little snippets like Captain America holding a therapy session, but no answers to big questions about how everything is working.
Just deciding to skip ahead 5 years creates a ton of narrative problems. I think the only reason it happens is because they wanted to...dare I say it..."subvert expectations" by destroying the stones and killing Thanos in the first 20 minutes.
Did you want the movie to be 12 hours long? Steve and Tony did not interact in those 5 years. The more logical reason as to why they didn't depict literally 5 years in an already 3 hour long movie, is because they literally can't make a movie that long.
@@VColossalV Just because the movie decided 5 years passed didn't mean it had to be written that way, you ninny. This movie could all have taken place in the 2 hours or 2 days or 2 weeks following Infinity War.
@@VColossalV Ever heard of a montage? There are ways to tell a story of time passage in a couple of mins. One perfect example is from Pixar's Up where we see Carl's relationship with Ellie start from when they were young to being old. It's an emotional scene that handles DECADES of two characters lives in just a handful of minutes without dialogue. And that was their character introduction.
Imagine what the filmmakers of Avenger's Endgame could've done with pre-established Marvel characters, if they had executed something similar as Pixar's Up by showcasing what the original poster mentioned in like 5 mins at most.
@@waynesfiction8382 How would a montage work? That just wouldn't fit the tone they were going for. This is the Russo brothers were talking about, if they thought it was a good idea they would have done it. The example you gave was for 2 characters, how do we have a satisfying montage for all the characters and it not be too long? Even a montage adds screen time, they scrapped so much already to get it down to 3 hours.
@@TheNoonish Then Tony wouldn't have his family, and we wouldn't have gotten Ronan or Smart Hulk, or found out what 5 years of wallowing and sadness does to a demi-God. Some developments need the passage of time. The Russo brothers clearly thought this was necessary.
Just remember that Captain America got old and went back to the time when getting old doesn't matter because of Pym Particles.
I just noticed - Tony's dilemma is nonsense. He wants to have his kid and so on as well as the snap unsnapped. Fine. The stones can do that. They can't undo a sacrifice to them, but anything else is fair game. They are infinite in terms of power, or near as much to make no difference.
What is his child? Atoms in a certain order. Done. Since the spirit stone is a thing, the spirit would be bound to those atoms. That would be his real daughter, not a copy, and even if her memories would be odd, she would be alive, and the unwinding of time could be done in such a way as to preserve his family.
But you are speaking in a real comic booky way. Consider a real world, where you are a parent and have an actual child. Killing your child, and then making another similar child by the soul stone means very similar to adoption.
You've seen iron man since 2008, tell me. Does this character want an adopted child right now?
Wait what? You literally wanted Tony to sacrifice his daughter? Interesting how much hatred towards kids people can have? Tony loves his daughter and of course he will never did this, and even if he did that isn’t it means it’s more like adoption?
2 hours and he didnt even mention how poorly composed the final battle is. At no point during the battle do we ever understand where all the characters are in relation to each other.
Hit the nail on the head.
What pissed me off about the whole Cap thing is that lots of fans forgave him for going back to stay with Peggy because “He deserved it!”
That’s not the point nor does that matter. It doesn’t matter if he suffered in life and deserved the ending. It was out of character and destroys who he is.
It is not out of character, there’s nothing in the MCU that says he wouldn’t do this.
@@shinken6636 First off, that is not true and you're generalizing. This is an adaption, and it can almost anything you want them to be.
Besides. the timeline that Steve created hasn't been said to hurt anything and unleash on the Multiverse like Infinity Ultron like in What If...? For all we know, it could've had positive events in it, Bucky becoming Captain America, the Avengers still forming, them possibly stopping Thanos before getting all the stones, a variant of Kang not existing, and etc.
So, we agree with Steve's choice, not just because we think he deserves it, but because it hasn't been shown to be harmful in any way.
@@JustinlxLIts just not the real cap.
It’s not out of character. The first thing he thought about when he woke up in the modern world was his date with Peggie.
@@diablo595 Yes but the point was about him moving on.
I was bored throughout the movie, up until the battle at the end. Infinity war had me gripped from start to finish.
I was surprised that so many people didn't see it as lazy fan service, but I'm glad most people enjoyed it. Nebula's character Arc IMO was the only meaningful piece of writing in the movie.
While I enjoyed the individual elements of fan service as I watched them by the end of the movie, I still left Endgame feeling underwhelmed. There were multiple scenes that took me out of the movie and felt solely like fan service, but the biggest two scenes that made me realize that the movie was ONLY fan service was the women banding together and Cap as an old man. In the moment I felt pandered to as a woman for a scene that made little sense since many of those women had never met before and Captain Marvel shouldn’t even need that much help. The Cap scene felt so out of character that I felt angry during it.
The entire film closed so many arcs, I regardless of whether you think the film is good or not, saying nebula had the only good arc is ridiculous
@@Person-eh9nr Do believe you have the objectively correct perspective of the film, and everyone should agree with you?
I didn't like how character arcs closed in Endgame. I understand that you do.
@@Person-eh9nr who had a better arc?
@@wildwesley9328 the only other thing I found meaningful was Tony’s death, but it was ruined by all the plot holes. Why does his gauntlet work? Doesn’t it have to be forged by that star and with special metal in order to be able to handle the infinity stones? Why was he able to even hold all the stones when star lord, a Demi-god at the time, needed the power of friendship to hold just the power stone? Why didn’t literally anyone else, like captain marvel or Thor, who could of survived the snap, just do it? I like that he sacrificed himself, I though it was a good enough ending for the character and it was time for him to die anyway, but we were all expecting it and it wasn’t handled well enough.
I thought it was just me.
I really liked Endgame.
I HATED what they did to their most powerful Avengers......Hulk and Thor.
But it's like everytime I've rewatched, the Cringe Moments got More Cringy.
Rewatching any film can make the cringe worthy moments stick out more and more, but comparing Endgame to something like Empire Strikes Back, Endgame takes it from 0 to 100 for cringe worthy moments when rewatching. The film is absolutely garbage
The issues are covered over with the epic scenes and emotions of everyone being brought back, nearly everyone. They did a lot of characters dirty though, the vision, the hulk, fat Thor, Natasha, Howard Stark and Dr Pim. Killing off Tony Stark and letting Steve Rogers retire has pretty much killed the franchise.
The mcu is overstating it's welcome by making this film. Wiping away the infinity stones like nothing just destroys what the reality of the mcu was based on, i.e., what linked all the films together. I feel that Infinity War Part II(Endgame) should've been more of a revenge/reverse film. Have the Gauntlet shatter from the cosmic energy that was released when Thanos TRIES to destroy them, but then have him make bargains and all with others to take care of the stones. Get creative with it instead of just throwing in the last resort card that is practically guaranteed to fix any issue in films without reason. I knew right off the bat how the film was gonna play out the second I learned Thanos destroyed the stones, and Thors cut off his head.
Endgame is that movie that kinda gets worse as time past and as the MCU continues to grow and sorta treats this movie as a silly little footnote rather than the universe-shaking event it should be.
I felt the same way about force awakens
It was awesome at first. Then you realize it had nothing much to offer except
Member this
Last Jedi felt like a breath of fresh air and is my fav star wars film. I couldn't stop talking about it for a long ass time and still love to talk about (when people don't wanna bit my head off). It had real passion behind it and wasn't just some generic rehash
@@Z-Mikes00
Y... you're not serious... Last Jedi? Passion? In Last Jedi? The single most cynical and plot lazy Star Wars THING?
@@sparxskywriter2589 correct
@@Z-Mikes00 The only thing comparable to Endgame's incompetence is the star wars sequel trilogy. The Last Jedi is another movie that "tricks" people into thinking it is something it isn't. It is still just a rehash of ideas from previous movies and it has all of it's characters act like idiots in order to even have a story in the first place. It brings every story line from the previous movies to a screeching halt and leaves us in the most boring place imaginable to set up the final movie of the epic saga. I didn't even bother seeing The Rise of Skywalker because TFA and TLJ were such a train wreck.
@@Z-Mikes00 Damn dude your opinions are certainly….something.
I had to pause and say Thank You for your section on Steve Rogers. He's been my favorite character throughout this MCU journey, and you laid out exactly why I will forever be mad at Endgame. The Steve in Endgame is not the Steve I know. I'm repeating you, but he never would have left and abandoned Bucky, and he never would have gone back in time to a woman who Explicitly told him to move on. Endgame disrespected Steve and Peggy, end of story.
I agree Steve and Peggy were disrespected
Exactly! I also agree that is shafted Peggy. She definitely would have been tempted, but also told Steve that he was abandoning his responsibilities and kicked him out of the house.
“The Steve I know was not the Steve on endgame” - 🤓 Yeah sure, the Steve in endgame who stood in front on an entire army, definitely wasn’t the determined and brave Steve who fought the Nazi’s and Hydra all those years ago. 🙄
@@Matt-wb8ni Specifically referring to the Steve in the final scene of endgame. The Steve in the fight was right on point. The Steve who stayed behind, who decided to live a happy life with Peggy while his best friend Bucky was tortured by Hydra for decades, who didn't help to prevent the Snap, that Steve is a whole different Steve.
@@canebro1 Steve living his life with Peggy was not selfish, he’s been selfless his entire life. And plus, Bucky had already gone through all of that, so what would be the point in changing it, especially if everything worked out in the end.
Time travel could have been used effectively if it used a non-renewable resource. Namely, the Infinity Stones. If Strange left a spell with a fragment of the Time Stone to allow the time machine to work, we could maintain much of the plot's skeleton. Then, the final snap could be Tony using the Gauntlet on Thanos', matching unstoppable force against immovable object, mutually annihilating them.
In Agents of Shield they offer up a few possibilities for how time travel works but never do they describe it as being “this is how it works trust me I know everything” and that works a lot better than Bruce giving the most insane explanation that he thinks is fact when they use of that travel doesn’t hold up consistently.
45:22 It’s a magical place.
55:51 Falcon and the Winter Soldier again assassinated his character by claiming he completely abandoned Sharon after Civil War. This just would not have happened.
0:00 Video begins
4:03 Addressing Possible Criticisms
5:41 Intro continues
7:02 The MCU as a Whole, and Endgame's Place in it
11:40 Critique begins (Time travel in stories)
13:24 Loki is Terrible- A Video Essay
18:19 Time Travel Mechanics, Including a Lesson with Professor Fringy
31:50 How did Cap return all the stones?
33:56 "bUt It'S oK bEcAuSe OtHeR sToRiEs WiLl FiX iT"
34:55 A Heist for the Ages. Or the timelines in this case. A Heist for the Timelines, I guess. The Avengers are dumb basically, also including a lesson with Professor Fringy.
39:53 Spectacle Over Logic- Endgame's Final Battle.
50:45 Characters- the Backbone of Storytelling
54:56 Captain America
1:01:46 A Tangent on the Snap and the Blip
1:07:26 Iron Man
1:13:20 Civil War's Consequences are Squandered
1:21:01 Thor
1:27:08 Hulk
1:29:51 Hawkeye
1:30:51 Black Widow
1:32:45 Nebula
1:33:48 Rocket
1:34:19 Thanos ("Look how they massacred my boy ☹.")
1:36:48 Recapping Everything
1:37:34 Golden Nuggies in a Landfill of Goo
1:40:42 Spectacle Over Writing. Fan Service at all Costs!
1:42:57 Subtopic: Fiction and Suspension of Disbelief
1:46:13 Subtopic ends
1:49:58 What Could Have Been
1:57:20 The State of the Industry (Conclusion)
1:59:53 czcams.com/video/QUAItQmq-LU/video.html
Thank you ^^
You sure you got that first timestamp right?
@@shanustheanus no
Hopefully fringy puts these in the description so the video itself will have timecodes
Pin this pls
Everyone can benefit from a bad example. Remember that before you ask why this video exists, folks. There’s a reason Fringy spends so much time digging into long-term problems with the MCU. This stuff is difficult, and when you have a roadmap that is so long and so remarkably broken, you have a great list of things to not do.
Here’s one the green birdmn missed: Don’t have your super McMuffins get “reduced to atoms” and also establish that their absence is a very bad thing on a universal scale, in a nonspecific way that doesn’t need further explanation.
Half counter to your criticism: It could be that they still uphold the timeline as atoms, even if they can't exactly be harnessed in that form. See the aether for example, which is already atoms as far as we know. Question is if a molecular structure creates their powers. Might be for the mind stone. Unknown for the rest.
The stones cannot be completely destroyed. But if you reduce them to atoms then they can no longer be used. They still exist, they are now just microscopic dust.
The second highest grossing movie
@@turtleboy1188 And? Lmao
When I first clicked on this video I liked Endgame, and was reluctant to say it was terrible (I knew it wasn’t one of the MCU’s best, but B-A tier at least). But I honestly can’t argue with the majority of these points, you’ve really changed my mind. Great job, your clearly put a lot of effort into this video and it’s great!
Very good and in depth. I think the only thing not really mentioned was the misuse or, lack their of, of the infinity stones. To barrow from the shaggy meme. We didn’t even see 10% of their power. There could have been a bit where each of the avengers grabs a stone and shows what they are capable of individually let alone united. Instead they are a McGuffin that do vaguely defined stuff when needed.
Something else about the Blip is that No Way Home establishes that to the people who were blipped, it's like nothing happened. Ignoring the mental trauma that would come with missing 5 years of your friends/family's lives, there is also the issue of remarriages. If you got snapped, but your spouse didn't, and within that 5 years they remarry and possibly have kids. Then when the person who got blipped comes back, there would definitely be a ton of tension in the air.
Ssshhhh
Don't think, just consume...
i was wondering how peter parker's graduation happened. like he got snapped, (did mj and ned also get snapped? i don't remember) either way how did he manage to immediately graduate highschool with everybody else? in his grade? did they put everything on hold for five years?
@@katiemorgan543 They did not. The rest of the class went on and graduated and when peter n his gang came back, they still have to take that last 5 years of school. There was a character in Far From Home that wasn't blipped and grew up to join peter's class.
@@phyokyawkhaing2251 yeah I think that was Brad Davis the boy that likes Mj in Far from home.
Yeah. I'm watching "Manifest" and there are ton of problems with just one plane of people reappearing after 5 years, imagine the billions...
Endgame after Infinity War was like following up a Michelin star meal with a $0.25 gumball as dessert. I saw fan theories about how to solve the snap that were miles better and would make continuity a million times easier than what they decided to go with. They should have never messed with time travel and alternate universes. It's hard to do well and they clearly weren't even thinking a single second past Endgame's credits with their solution to the snap.
What fan theories were better and less convoluted?
What fan theories do you mean? I'd love to read them!
I am also intrigued these by these fan theories.
I also am curious about this fan theories! 👋
@@aqualiusaidhreborn5923 It was stuff I read years ago on reddit. My personal one after hearing they were going the time travel route was thinking they would sacrifice themselves. They spend the first half of the movie searching for Tony Stark and then Thanos with the help of Nebula. Less than a year passes, they find the stones, kill Thanos and realize that if they go back in time and change anything, their timeline ceases to exist and they will fade out of existence a la Back to the Future. They stew on that realizing that they are going to need to sacrifice the second half of their universe, themselves, and their timeline to save the universe as it was. They develop some quantum state Pym tech to prevent themselves from fading the second they go into the past to prevent a paradox but it has a time limit, they fight along side their past selves, stop Thanos and the snap, then at the end of the battle and after giving their past selves some advice, tearfully fade as heroes that knew they were on a suicide mission as their countdown clocks reach zero. After that the stones are given each to a core avenger and they now have to find a location in the universe to hide them. The core team retires except Captain America and Black Widow and they oversee the new generation of Avengers, Thor decides to restore Asgard by finding the seed of Yggdrasil or something like that in the next movie. Not perfect. I'd prefer something like that to what we got. But I'm also going to be biased to my own shit. There's no snap to deal with. Time travel is not seen as a viable route as you will cease to exist yourself if you do it. And you didn't kill half the cast or your two biggest characters that still have beef from civil war and can hash it out in a future movie.
“Yes, even worse than Age of Ultron”
Lol those were the days.
If you were looking for an example of temporal mutability in media, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban actually did it pretty well.
I feel like the fact that it was evident rdj and evans were leaving after endgame made their departures so much less impactful. It really takes away from the “it all comes down to this” and makes it feel more like “this is the farthest we can go”.
So true
not really at all because you had zero idea how their stories were going to end
@@MS-vj6zt that's a fair point, but death was most likely going to be the ending of it. Tony's death was super predictable, and while steve's was interesting for also not being a death, it had a side effect of ruining the character to a certain degree.
@@elmuchacho3379 i wished steve took that sacrifice instead of tony. Tony has a family to take care of, while steve, yeah he has the avengers but its not the same. He meets peggy in the afterlife
Dude that's a really ridiculous standard to have. You're never going to have a major star or character where their last appearance isn't well-known about beforehand. It generates too much hype. Like did you walk into Logan saying, "Fuck yeah, I get to see Wolverine one last time in a bloody R-rated horror movie," or did you really say "this is the farthest Wolverine goes. Guess I don't care anymore." I knew Wolverine wasn't making out of that shit alive, but it was the only X-Men movie I've given a single shit about before watching it.
The way Steve sits around at the beginning like he's given up/retired and left Natasha to run the Avengers is so out of character. It took me the longest time to figure out why his role in this movie felt off, but once I realized what bothered me I couldn't really believe it. Wouldn't Steve be doing his dead level best to help mend the world after the snap? Why has he just left the running of the Avengers to Natasha?
absolutely, if not running the avengers himself he should be standing up for every "little guy" who's being bullied by the warlords a global population halving would inevitably result in. He should be a *very* busy man.
There is an additional character trouble for Steve, at least from my perspective. Some wasted potential, if you'll allow some indulgence in tismry...
Part of Steve's arc in the MCU about coming into his role as the leader of the Avengers is realizing how much the world around him has changed, and that he shouldn't keep dwelling in the past. After all, what's gone is gone, and it can't be reclaimed once it is...
Or can it?
Now the time travel provides Captain America with the ultimate temptation: a chance to, at least in some way, reclaim what he gave up in his fight. It'll mean giving up on the fight, the fight he admitted in both Age of Ultron and Winter Soldier that he couldn't bring himself to walk away from; and betraying some of the very virtues that prevented the serum from twisting him like what happened to Red Skull and the Winter Soldiers... but it'd be worth it to have his love again, right?
Now, Steve could be interested by the prospect, but realize that there are still battles to be had and that he's still needed in the present, understand that he's a very different person now than the one who loved and was loved by Captain Carter, and accept the life he's made for himself in the future, to move on... Or he could do what he did in the movie, and drop everything he's stood for and is for some pegging with Peggy.
@@insulttothehumanrace3807 so.... you just honna repeat what Fringy said huh?
Word
That's not out of character for him at this point though. He did try doing his best...but after a while even he can lose hope. Because even he can lose hope.
This was the video I was waiting for. I felt the EXACT SAME about the movie. I liked it when I saw it in theaters, but the more time passes the more I realized how terrible it truly was.
It's like the cheapest, cheesiest of burgers. It sends all the signals to the brain that good things are happening as you consume it, but once that's over you start feeling sick and wishing you hadn't.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but season 1 of CW Flash's has a better character arc than Captain America did in Endgame.
So to recap the Season 1 finale, Barry Allen is offered the chance to go back in time and save his mother's life. Instead, he uses the opportunity to say one last goodbye to his dying mom before returning to the present to stop Eobard Thawne.
Granted, it all gets undone in season 3 but you get what I mean.
If Steve just traveled back in time to reassure Peggy that he's okay before traveling back to the present then it would be fine. Heck, you could even technically give Steve a happy ending by telling Peggy he's frozen in the Arctic. That way you have two Steves: ours who stays in the present and the alternate Steve who's thawed out early and lives a long and healthy life with Peggy.
My biggest complaint about Endgame was described beautifully by you. How did Thor almost kill Thanos when Thanos had all the stones, yet stoneless Thanos can take on Thor and company without the power of said stones?
Also, 1 in +14,000,000 chances to stop Thanos??! He would have to be truly invincible, with few being able to stand any sort of stance against him.
the stormbreaker is the perfect counter for the gauntlet, they are both made by the same magic
@@Fridaey13txhOktober There wasn't a single future where Ant Man crawled up his butt (or any orifice) and exploded him from the inside like that episode of The Boys?
Hard to believe.
They really fucked up Thor's and Thanos' power levels. Completely inconsistent.
@@erion9134 except one item is channeling 6 infinity stones
The blip needed a phase of it's own. Or shows about the characters. Natasha could have finally had her movie. Ronin could have had a show. Steve could have become a vigilante/nomad.
Imagine they waited 5 years in real time to make Endgame, releasing it next year in 2023.
Steve was a fully flushed out character other than his haphazardly ended conflict with Tony, they made a movie for Natasha and it's garbage only doing her worse than good. Part of me thinks that maybe they needed to revisit the blip as an idea, since the decision to blip everyone simultaneously back into existence rather than rewinding time really was an out of character decision for Tony and was the objectively worse decision. His reasoning was that it'd cost him his current life, but if he rewound time 5 years he could relive moments with his family and possibly even make new ones while retaining the memories he had previously (assuming this Endgame follows the alternate timeline structure of things). It's also the safer way to save his family, as they could only assume negative consequences of blipping everyone back into existence after the worst 5 years of human history (if the snap actually made an impact on the world in a logical way). At best, he'd blip everyone including his family back into a hellish world devastated by the snap. At worst he'd blip everyone into the vacuum of space including his family where they'd die rather horribly (vacuum of space does not sound like a pleasant way to die). The best course of action would have just been to rewind to pre snap regardless of if you look at it from Tony's perspective or a "for the greater good" one.
@Deadbunny have you ever heard of the butterfly effect?
You can be certain that if they had chosen to do what you are suggesting, the likelihood of Tony's character being able to retain his life is vanishingly small.
There is simply no way that he can have the power to rewind time and get exactly what he wants.
Now, you can absolutely write that.
You can write anything.
But that doesn't mean you should.
Do you understand the consequences of possessing such a power?
Do you understand how that would affect future storylines?
Tony dies.
And he should die.
22:24 that's why I consider Dark to be the only acceptable piece of fiction to depict time travel correctly because it follows this method/rule in such a beautiful and creative way.
16:02
WAIT A SECOND! Guardians of the Galaxy said no one could touch the power stone without exploding!
I love how Thor's plan was to use the hammer to push the axe closer to thanos rather than... smashing him in the head with it.
Oh yeah I remember everyone going "hey look, Thor is using the hammer to push the axe closer to Thanos's head!!!"
As a man who hasn't enjoyed Marvel since Endgame, and who rolls his eyes every time his friends start ranting about how "awesome Marvel content" on Disney+ is . . . I'm excited to watch this video.
I mean I'm not a fan of the MCU that much either. What annoys me tho is when people act like it's well liked and shit is a problem and or it's bad to enjoy it.
Or to put it better
People who like it are beneath me attitude.
Got to agree. I watched Endgame but just really haven't been interested since Infinity War. Tbh though, in hindisght there is a lot of meh in the mcu even prior to Infinity War.
I enjoyed no way home but yeah I agree
@@Tom-ie1uh No way home is an exception to the rule, literally 1 in 10
You were brave to skewer this sacred cow. The post-multiverse MCU is utterly wretched and Endgame has one of the worst endings in movie history.
Having to listen to all the Loki nonsense literally hurt my brain cells.
Worst endings in movies history? This type of hyperbole makes you guys look nuts.
@@WL1264yeah, WORST is a stretch. This movie definitely could’ve been better, but for what it was trying to do, it was alright.
Calling endgame “one of the worst movies and endings” in history actually is a statement only delusional r*tards could possibly think of. Thanks for confirming you’re one of them hence the wild take.
I've been superhero'd out since the first Avengers movie came out, so I went to see a infinity War mostly to spend time with friends, similar with Endgame. When we walked out of the theater I told them "Infinity War had a perfect ending. They're going to fuck it up in the next one."
I can't wait until the Superhero genre goes the way of the Wild West.
It'll happen this summer with Horizon....
Yeah I didn't like End Game.
Which is weird cos Infinity War is really great imo. Great pacing, great action, more interesting characterization.
End Game killed all that momentum right off the bat and then spent the rest of the movie slowly building up back to where we left off really. Only with a drastically less interesting version of Thanos. The movie ends with the usual mass CGI slogfest which many movies fall into. Whilst Infinity War had much smaller scale fights, but also massively more intense and grounded.
I just found End Game rather boring and bloated. The only real thing I enjoyed was doing a decent job ending ongoing story of the MCU in a respectful way.
In my head canon it all ends with Infinity War, even though they failed. For some reason that movie was so much more compelling to me - I thought it was because I hate the time travel trope. But now I realize how much every character has been affected since Endgame. I’ve lost a lot of interest and haven’t even watched the majority of MCU movies since. Then again, that’s probably a good thing since I never would have wanted to sit through Black Widow’s character assassination. I think it will become increasingly difficult for MCU writers to remain consistent in world building and character development, given all the multiverse shenanigans.
I think of endgame as the dessert to infinity war's main course.
Unnecessary, and awful in retrospect.
I still enjoyed it tho
“Mass cgi slog fest”
Oh yea. Infinity War definitely didn’t have anything like that, lol.
I honestly dont view endgame as a movie. its just an event. it feels kinda silly to give it a grade or a number score. Its obviously not better than infinity war but like someone else said, endgame is more like dessert or a side piece to infinity war.
It was a terrible movie.
Something everyone talks about with suspension of disbelief, that I feel no one talks about, is the difference between continued and initial suspension.
Let's say you start a new story, that plays on an alien world. You have the premise and when something new is introduced at the start of the story, you are a lot more willing to engage with it and let it pass. The grass is purple, there are no trees, there is some weird funky metal, it's all fine, cause you are going into the story with the mindset "This is an alien world"
But the more you learn of that world, the more expectations and experiences you have to draw on. Okay, the grass is now blue. Why? I thought it was purple. If the story explains it, like "The rocks here are different and the pigments make it blue, not purple" you usually go: "Yeah sure, I can buy it" and when red grass comes up with the same reason, you are, again, more likely to believe it.
But when they suddenly put trees in, after specifically stating "There are no trees on this world" and then go "Oh yes, well, except this one, of course, duh. Forgot to mention." it becomes contradictory and goes against your suspension. Contradictions being the biggest grind and drain on our Suspension. So when things are first introduced in a setting, we are a lot more ready to accept it, as we don't have any, or at least a lot less, contradicting notions of what should and should not be.
And the longer a story runs. The more the world and characters are fleshed out, the harder inconsistencies, contradictions or convenient coincidences grate on us. because they grind up against more of those mountains of experience and expectations, that we built ourselves. And in the case of Endgame, we got a damn decade of characterbuilding, worldbuilding and events, that this movie really flies against.
Kinda like weight lifting. Ask someone to suspend their disbelief again and again, and past a certain point it becomes too exhausting and pointless to be actually enjoyable
Very well put!
Well that's usually discussed in regards to consistency and establishing a premise. You don't question fantastical things in the beginning of a story because you have yet to form any preconceptions of what is or is not possible in it; you can't be thrown out of a story due to logical contradiction if there is not yet anything established to contradict. Incredibly convenient or unlikely occurrences in the beginning are similar; they are problematic because they pull characters in unnatural directions that reveal the hand of the writer, that can't happen unless there is some established direction to pull away from in the first place. The prime example is Kill Bill vs. Sicario: the Bride surviving a shot to the head works fine because that is the foundation of the whole story; del Toro surviving a shot to the head is ridiculous because it is so blatantly used to manufacture momentary drama and write him out of a no-win scenario so the writers can have the shock of a character death without committing to it.
There is, however, a lot to be said for the fact that suspension of disbelief gets harder to maintain the longer a story goes on and the more that gets established. Way too many people trot out the defeatist, "the franchise is too big to make sense now" argument as if it has any merit. The increasing complexity of maintaining consistency is a fundamental aspect of storytelling, the kind of thing that is THE WRITER'S JOB to deal with. Of course there are limits to how much any writer can reasonably account for, especially given deadlines, but fanboys never want to broach the subject that maybe eternal, never-ending franchises are an inherently bad idea and the only reason they support them is because they care more about maintaining a constant stream of content generation than they do about quality.
Frankly, you are not going to get as much disagreement or criticism on your opinion of the MCU movies that you might think. None of the MCU movies were all that good, except visually. All of the MCU movies, including Endgame, were made to be impressive visually. But at the cost of good story, continuity, plot holes you could drive a truck through, characters who acted in ways that made no sense, for no apparent reason, situations and events that made no sense. etc. The movie makers thought the fans/customers were stupid. We were supposed to look at the pretty explosions and forget everything else. When you first see the movies, you are impressed by all the glittery gadgets and special effects----but later, when you think about it, you go "hey, that made no sense."
And the MCU had a problem with smart people. Look how they treated Tony Stark. Half of the stuff that goes on is having smart people do and say things that make them look ridiculous. The 'science" makes no sense, breaks its own rules and fails to have any kind of continuity. Why would Tony have anything to do with the time heist to begin with? He, of all of them, had to know what was at risk. Tony, just to mention one thing, was ricking the life of his daughter. He was risking un-creating her. Why would he do that? If anything he should have been opposed to the others trying this hair brained quest. The other "avengers" were so focused on their own losses, that they did not consider what harm they could do. Yes, Earth had been defeated and decimated; but it had survived and was beginning to thrive again. They were taking the chance of making things infinitely worse.
Case in point: while the idea of time travel is difficult, what about the idea that they were, in essence, returning to life several BILLION people who had been dead for 5 years? Now, even getting past the legal and religious aspects of 4 billion people returning from death, these people would return with nothing but the clothes on their backs, no jobs, no families, no homes, no money, no future. They would be entirely dependent on their families or the government. The sudden need to feed, clothe and take care of an additional 4 billion people who appear overnight would cause the entire world economy and every government to collapse. So while it might seem like a good idea to bring these people back from the dead, it probably wasn't, as it could result in the total destruction of the world as we know it. Kind of makes the Avengers the bad guys, instead of Thanos. that entire scenario has about a hundred plot holes just by itself. Like for example, assuming missing people would just reappear safe and sound from where they vanished----which itself, is an enormous plot hole with so many variables it boggles the mind. Again, the MCU showing it's contempt for intelligence.
What I hated most about "Endgame" is that it killed Iron Man for no good reason. If anyone deserved a happy ending, it was Tony Stark. The movie also destroyed virtually all the classic heroes. The end of the movie left us mourning at the funeral of Iron Man. This was not a happy ending of any kind. What was there to celebrate? Nothing. No one came out on top. There was absolutely no reason to kill Iron Man or destroy all of the other heroes, except for the fact that the MCU wanted to replace them all with their own girl boss versions---something that no fan had asked for or wanted. Well we have all seen just how good the M-She-U has turned out. No, Endgame was not the pinnacle of good moving making, in any sense of the word. And don't even get me started on the crap that was the Loki TV show.
When my friends and I went to see Endgame (we got the pre-midnight viewing) we all went deathly silent during the time travel reveal. My friends are brainless MCU fans. They know it. I know it. They know I'm not a brainless MCU fan.
When Tony unlocked time travel one of my friends turned to me and very gently cussed me out about predicting it.
I predicted it as the single worst idea for a movie. The next best prediction was that Antman would explode Thanos by crawling up his ass.
Then Bannulk (Banner/Hulk) brought everyone back. I half expected cheers from my fellow viewers. There was golf clapping.
Thanos got dusted and there was murmuring. Polite comments about "why did Infinity War even happen then?"
I agree with you on Steve. Yes, he may deserve a normal life with Peggy and wish he had that, but it was his will to make sacrifices for the greater good. Even before he was a super soldier, he threw himself on what everyone believed was a live grenade, without a thought. He was chosen because he is the guy to make the sacrifice.
It’s like Steve told Tony, “you’re not the one to lay down on the wire…”, because Steve knows that he is that guy because he has done it many times.
I can’t believe that Steve could stand by, dancing with Peggy, while bad things were going on anywhere in his world. It is the will to make sacrifices that makes one a hero. You can’t be a hero if you can’t take risks and willing to make sacrifices to help others.
So, after returning to the past, does Steve not fight Red Skull or crash the plane in the sea so he can dance with Peggy. Does Twinkle Toes Steve now use his super human endurance to win dance marathons?
I just can’t see Steve mowing the lawn and fixing the picket fence while the world is going to hell. Do the other Avengers need to fight Loki and his Chitauri army without Cap?
Does Steve just become Ward Cleaver instead of Captain America? Was Captain America now turned into Twinkle Toes Rogers, more famous for his dancing than fighting? I just can’t buy it. I did not think it was a great ending for Steve.
The same skinny kid who would fight with a guy twice his size and leap onto a live grenade is the same guy inside all of that muscle. The super soldier serum just gave Steve a body that could back up his heroic mind.
Both Tony and Steve’s arcs are connected. Tony started off super selfish but he struggles to become more selfless. Steve started off super selfless but he struggles to become more selfish. Being too selfless is just as bad as being too selfish. Tony was too selfish in the beginning as Steve was too selfless.
Tony as Iron Man protects people security but he struggled to be secure in his own life. Steve as Captain America protects people’s freedom but he struggled to be free in his own life.
Tony always treated himself right but he needed to treat other people right in life and. Steve always treated other people right but needed to treat himself right in life.
Ever since the first Avengers they slowly changed their attitude on working with people. Tony started as rebel but he slowly became a authority figure after realizing he is not as secure as he thought after seeing being unmatched by Aliens. Steve started as an authority figure but he slowly became a rebel after realizing he is not as free after seeing SHEILD secretly has plans to use Hydra weapons.
Even though Tony buttheads for more security as Steve buttheads for more freedom they both learned and inspired from each other to obtain their goals. Tony was inspired by Steve to “make the sacrifice play” pushing him to be more authority figure as Steve inspired by Tony to be a rebel after Tony made him question SHEILD’s plans.
In Endgame they both got what they needed and wanted. Tony got his security by doing a big selfless act as Steve got his freedom by doing a big selfish act and both of their superhero days ended.
Dude it a frozen Steve Rogers Captain America existed in the timeline Steve went back to. It is a terrible idea for Steve to get involved fighting for another timeline because it would make thing more darker and unpredictable- and best to keep his time with Peggy a secret between them.
The biggest problem with this is that Steve’s arc was in part about letting go of his past and embracing the time he lives in after the ice. Him clinging to his past was the reason he was so adamant about protecting Bucky. He’s his only friend from that time. He already said goodbye to Peggy, Natasha pretty much had to coax him into seeing other people. He carves out a new life as an Avenger, only to fall right back into his past given the opportunity. Really unfortunate ending for his character.
@@ollytherevenant1653 He never said good to Peggy. Peggy’s untimely death in Civil War forced Steve to protect Bucky more because Bucky is the last person he has from his past life after she died. Steve arc is about him learning to not let others make him change his beliefs on freedom and he had to learn to be selfish in order to keep protecting his stance. Tony arc is about him learning to change his beliefs in providing security more by learning to be selfless.
Steve is the man who promotes values as Tony is the man who promotes future values.
@@petermj1098 Steve did say goodbye to Peggy. He got to see her again in Winter Solider, as she was still alive at that time. Then he finally had to let her go when she died. If I were to entertain the idea that Steve’s arc was allowing himself to be more selfish, it didn’t work because his decision was pulled out of left field with no proper build up or arc. It was just a flippantly made decision that the character would not have done.
@@ollytherevenant1653 If you payed attention in Civil War during Peggy’s funeral, Sharon literally speaks about Peggy the quotes Steve’s “plant like a tree” quote from the comics. Her death was a reminder for Steve keep on standing for what he believes and wants in life in even hard or people are trying to stop him.
Yes there was build up. In age of Ultron he struggles to admit the fact he prefers living in the past with Peggy than his current life and doesn’t want to admit. The fact he didn’t tell Tony about the truth of his parents death is him becoming selfish. And admits to Tony he didn’t tell him to spare Tony but to spare himself. The entire civil war has Tony’s side seeing him as selfish in the movie. Steve being a better liar during the time heist is him having learned to be more selfish with himself.
Fringy - PLEASE make more content like this! You have such a great personality and style. I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I'd love to see more video essays on films in the future! Well done!
"Make more"??? It took him over a year to make this!
@@luciferthedoberman8991 true
Lol I am glad more people are talking about this. I was destroyed at the release of the movie way back when. People ripped me to shreds about me hating Endgame and the reasons. I told everybody this "Once the hype has left you, and you go and buy the blu ray, you'll skip through the scenes, and then you'll realize that the movie was trash."
To be fair though when people were saying time travel before the movie was released I was like "No way, after infinity war would they lean on time travel" Once time travel was spoken, I hated it.
The movie ended for me the moment they killed infinity war thanos. There’s just no story left to tell at that point. I’m not completely against all the time travel garbage, but going to stop a different thanos is just kinda trash. there is just nothing interesting about a climactic battle against a villain that has like no connection to the heroes whatsoever.
But when the old Thanos 2014 one came to 2024 to fight them, he also had all the memories of the Thanos that got killed right.
So for every instance of the Avengers meeting the old Thanos, it's a different character but at the same time has all the previous memories. So it's kind of like he never died. And continued his story from there only.
😊
@@uncannyroaches5933cope
"What more could I lose" is my absolute favorite moment in all of the MCU tbh.
I liked the part where Captain Marvel, after having just taken out Thanos' ship singlehandedly, needed a bunch of other characters who all happened to be women to stand next to her as she flew away.
Oh, but when the Boys or the Mandalorian do it then it's fine?
@@ShadowSonic2 yes
@@ShadowSonic2 I is woman, and even I was confused w the all women scene. Like in a vacuum is a good scene. Is fucking great, in the movie is fucking weird. I haven't seen the Boys, but in Mandalorian, they already know each other, the plan was for them to attack together, they didn't magically appear next to each other and they are Grogu's cool aunts. It's very different.
@@CloneCaptainRex7567 It's no different, they just had fewer women to work with.
@@jarjarrose3935 Nah, just hypocrisy.
Yeah, I *despised* how Thor was turned into a broken shell of a person and we're *supposed* to laugh at that... until we're suddenly not.
I thought the actual depression was well done, Chris hemsworth’s broken delivery of “should have gone for the head” is the start of a man who’s hit his low. His rock bottom
To see he lost shape was understandable, hemsworth begging to be allowed to take risk of wearing gauntlet is devastating & when he meets up with Frigg, I cried.
The poor taste haha jokes at his expense was gross 🤢 it’s like the writers (or maybe just hemsworth) understood how to portray guilt and depression
But the jokes land like mosquitoes buzzing around and biting ruining a really honest arch
I loved that he just didn’t suddenly lose weight but it was like they didn’t have the guts to see his journey through
@@zarabee2880 The fact that he become a weird dudebro bum threatening children over the internet was the baffling part.
It's not done to depict a "broken man" but rather to get some cheap laughs.
The scene with Thor and his mom was the only time it really seemed like he was really broken and in need of help, instead of a lazy dude acting like a baby just because things didn't go well for him.
That one moment aside, Hawkeye, a man who also lost everything, was handled much better.
Yeah, you’re not supposed to laugh at him, but ya did. And that’s kinda ur fault tbh
@@Matt-wb8ni what about all the people who didn't laugh?
@@InfernosReaper well the. They understood that Thor was depressed. Whether or not the Russo Brothers intended to make Thor look like a joke, many people did laugh.
The best thing about the charge in the Black Gate is that even in-universe, it has a reason for being there; it's supposed to be big to catch Sauron's attention and predictable enough to make him believe they had the Ring. In the book, Sauron doesn't seem to think they would destroy the Ring and wants to repeat the first battle in the Black Gate again but with him retaking it, when he finds out that he has been duped, he is described as having a meltdown because of it.
It was an actual plan and it's a good character moment for pretty much everyone, even Sauron (who's barely in the books) shows his paranoia and arrogance through his response to it and everyone else pretty much knows there isn't much of a practical way of winning.
It sucks that charges and last stands are used as set pieces rather than part of an actual strategy, they seem less impressive when they aren't well thought out.
They could've just had teenagers break in to steal stuff, and one of them starts pressing random buttons on the van's control panel. That could be a more believable way to bring Scott back. Or the way I prefer: have one of the Avengers find out about Lang's van with a Quantum Tunnel in the back, have them bring it to Avengers HQ, and maybe Bruce is able to bring Scott back that way. You could probably avoid the five year jump this way.
Also I've just realised that the Avengers could've just gone back to 2012 for five of the six stones. The Time, Space, and Mind Stones were in New York at the same time. There's no reason to assume that the Power Stone wouldn't still be on Morag in 2012. The orb seems to have been on Morag for quite some time before Quill retrieved it in 2014. Then the Soul Stone would still be on Vormir because Thanos hasn't discovered it yet. So there's five out six stones in one journey. Then they should go to Knowhere and steal the Reality Stone from the Collector sometime between Thor 2 and Infinity War. I don't know why the Avengers think they absolutely have to suck the red goop out of Jane in 2013, when they could just nab it in it's stone form from The Collector.
Personally I'm all for Captain Marvel getting stuck in the past. That means we wouldn't have to worry about her in the MCU going forward.
100% agreed my dude. Anyone with a proper mindset would easily be able to make a plan as simple as this, especially considering the Avengers literally have experience with all of those stones, knowing where they are, why make their trip so much more challenging.
@@austing9060 Exactly. The writers should've avoided time travel altogether.
I always hated that Peter Quill was among the dusted in the snap. He could've had a great arc in Endgame feeling responsible for what happened and could have helped rebuild the spaceship in the beginning enough that they wouldn't need to shoehorn in Captain Marvel. I figured that he'd have been spared at least when he earned Thanos's respect in Infinity War by choosing to sacrifice Gamora, but I could see an argument as to why he was snapped away since Gamora is also the one person Thanos cared about.
Also I haven't seen a single Marvel film or tv show after Endgame aside from Spider-man NWH, I truly consider Endgame to be...well, a finale. Seems like that was a good decision with how bad everything is that came out afterwards. ~('
not everything was bad afterwards, like the two spider man films.
@@jaydenc367 Well yeah, I did say aside from Spider-man. Those were still good
@@scales78 Well I meant both Spider-Man films, I dunno if you saw FFH or not.
@Tom No Way Home is even WORSE than that. In NWH, Peter learns the lesson that if he is going to make decisions that affects the lives of people he loves and cares about, he needs to make THEM a part of the decision and let them choose for themselves what THEY WANT. But at the end of NWH, he dismisses that WHOLE LESSON (even after his friends tell him that they want to be with him and they love him) because "Peter has to sacrifice EVERYTHING because its great audience emotional manipulation and will make him SEEM like a hero." Even though its just him taking the easy way out ONCE AGAIN. I fucking HATE that ending so much because of how shit it is and how it goes against its entire message to the hero just for some free feelies. its PATHETIC.
@@jaydenc367 FFH is pretty good but NWH was crap, SC was crap, Eternals was a snorefest, Wanda Vision started off amazing but ended terribly, Moon Knight sucked ass, Loki was horrible and Falcon and the Winter Soldier was utterly shit.
Having just watched Multiverse of Madness, it is fully interesting that Endgame chose to not have the infinity stones destroyed, because Wanda becoming a villain is completely dependent on her not using the reality and soul stones to wish her kids alive.
She really could just zip to a defenseless universe and use its stones.
What-If shows that the Stones work in other universes unlike in the comics, so what gives?
@@gabrielcote8211 What if is garbage.
@@therealistintheboot8822 I didn't say anything about the quality of the show, only about the canon lore it introduces and how it changes things for other works of the franchise.
I was thinking about half the population just randomly poofing. But I didn't think about how they could have been driving, flying planes, manning trains, or running busses and how many people would die from that. Plus the medical staff would also be hit from half their team or maybe all of their team poofing which means anyone left alive by the mentioned catastrophes, would probably be unable to receive medical help. So there would be a lot of deaths from the poofing of people.
55:40
It really does make sense why Steve is so loyal to his friends, he was a captain in one of the bloodiest wars in human history and he had to see so many people die. Cool guy, cool guy.
Fringy, you and Mauler, and Jay taught me "Objective criticism does _not_ invalidate subjetive perception".
I liked Endgame for what it was, and you can point out all the flaws the movie has; that won't make my original experience any less meaningful.
With the added note that objectively better constructed films can enhance that very subjective perception. It's ever more satisfying when the dots connect and acompany the meaningful payoffs.
There's no such thing as objective criticism when it comes to art. Anyone who tells your otherwise is either delusional or trying to manipulate you.
@@HOTD108_ Explain
@@HOTD108_ If you claim objectivity doesn't exist in art, then for example I can say that Luke Skywalker never spoke a word with Han Solo in Star Wars. Without objectivity, you can't say I'm wrong.
See the problem?
@@HOTD108_ Absolutely WRONG!. There are objective components in a story, such as coherence, consistency, respect of internal logic, character development and arcs, respect of the established canon and others. Your ENJOYMENT of the story is subjective, but the quality of it is not. This ridiculous notion that objective quality doesn't exist in art is exactly how you get Disney Star Wars, GoT Season 8, Dr. Who Season 13, Terminator Dark Fate and all the other shitty pieces of media in the last decade.
I can't stand when people use "but it's just a silly story about superheroes!" as an excuse to ignore bad writing. Yeah, most superhero stories are disposable trash, but there are plenty that are genuinely well-written, thought out, dare I say even works of actual art. And dismissing a work's strengths and faults just because it's in a fantastical genre is especially rich considering some of the most popular TV shows of the past two decades were deadly serious dramas about dragons and zombies and robots that dress up like cowboys.
The silliness of the premise of superheroes amplifies the need for good writing and internal consistency in order to allow the suspension of disbelief. I had problems with some of the decision-making behind Ragnarok in that regard, also. I'm sure that the success of Guardians Of The Galaxy influenced that movie.
Err… But it actually is a silly story about superheroes.
The writing doesn’t matter, it’s there to be colourful and shiny, nothing more.
It isn’t there to be a good or worthwhile or well-written piece of art, it exists only to sell action figures and other merchandise.
The movie itself doesn’t matter to the company, it’s literally an advertisement to generate billions of dollars in revenue in toys, t-shirts, colouring books, frisbees, fidget spinners etc. plus movies and subscriptions to Disney+ all of which are more profitable and higher priority than the movie and it’s box office.
Although the box office is important to an extent, but only as a barometer of how much interest there is in that specific property and to offset the cost of production and advertising.
@@Nevyn515 I mean no not really, argument is thrown out the window off the bat, only way it would work is by ignoring the century long history of passionate creators making genre, hell generation defining stories, many look back on superheroes stories for inspiration on telling a good tale, creator fantastical worlds, or just finding ways to become a better story, super hero stories are to us what the Greek gods are to rhe mythology of Greece, we can't just see everything in the way of greedy capitalist, they make money bc of how important and amazing they are to us, people need to stop thinking that's only it, it complety undermines the people who've creative these works of art
All movies are art by definiton. Now, whether that art is worthwhile, that's entirely up to the individual to decide.
@@Nevyn515 No, it´s a story. It being about superheroes is irrelevant. You would say that Harry Potter is a great series not because it´s a silly story about magic, but just a really well written book series. In the same way, you can and should critique even superhero movies for what they are: movies.
The movie is definitely not there to just sell action figures, that´s just an insult to the people who made the film. They made the film out of their own personal passion to the characters and world in the MCU. We, as the audience, can critique or praise it as we choose.
i havent cared about mcu since endgame, it really was the end for me and most people i know. that said this was spot on about how bad the story of endgame is
After the snap, people move on, some remarried with new kids, teenagers become adults, there are many changes. It’s better to let it happen as it is because bringing “dead” people after 5 years create so much problems. A lot of people who vanished in public vehicles, like planes and ship, will surely die, again.
It's good to hear someone analyzing the problems with Endgame.
I’m not one of those Twitter users that hate how a video is 2-3 or more hours long analyzing a movie, but this is an exception as I noticed some issues with Endgame with every rewatch. Don’t get me wrong it has it’s good moments but boy it has a lot of bad moments and don’t mention the time travel, it’ll hurt your brain, but not this video on the explanation of time travel, but if you mention this to an outsider.
It really isn't that bad though.
@@JonathanGaeta It really doesn't have many bad moments and time travel is fine really.
@@jaydenc367It’s pretty bad.
I don’t get it. You’ve seen a good Endgame. It’s called Infinity War. How can you see Infinity War and not immediately notice that Endgame is nowhere near as good?
@@teapouter6109 It isn't bad. Because Endgame is as good, seriously Infinity War has it's issues too, it isn't better.
you used the example of Looper for #3 in your time travel list, but the much better executed example I would use (strangely enough) is Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkiban. This is also known as the Novikov Self Consistency Principle, and is the only form of time travel that actually makes sense, but it's criminally underrepresented in film. It works because there are no timelines or paradoxes, everything that can happen has happened. Prisoner of Azkiban (the best Potter film imo) presents this very well by basically telling the story twice but from different perspectives but also with the same characters, the second group having the benefit of foresight.
I also have to take a big issue with the critique of Tony's character. While Endgame is indeed trash, Tony initially choosing his family over everything else is actually within character. He's finally decided to hang it up and have the life he's been promising to his wife. He also has a child. And its been shown time and time again in every single study that that's the turning point for almost everyone. Once you have a child, everything changes. I'm not sure if Fringy has a child, but I'm definitely doubtful. If you told me I could sacrifice my son to save a trillion people I'd laugh you out of the room 100 times out of 100. If you gave someone the choice where they can press a button and for the rest of their child's life he/she will have whatever they want, have a long a happy life with the partner of their dreams, but pressing that button would cause one random person they don't know to die, 99% of parents are pressing that button every single time. Having a child really does hit different. My critique of endgame is the exact opposite. It would've made much more sense if Tony was like "nah, not this time bud, my family is everything, figure this shit out on your own."
Also no, the Sokovia Accords were not the "right" decision just because "everyone agrees". Lots of people agreeing to something doesn't make it a good idea. It's why pure democracy always devolves into chaos. The right step is to demand the Avengers make better decisions, not to remove their decision-making ability. If anything, it should've been mutually agreed upon that Stark should submit to monitoring/judgement since it was almost exclusively him and his ego that led to Ultron. Once again, we're blaming a group for the actions of a single member (because it's easier and less nuanced). Steve was correct in Civil War, its not even really debatable. You have one side trying to force everyone to sign away their freedom, including literally imprisoning Wanda on house arrest over something she didn't do, vs a man that wants the freedom he's always had and has never demonstrated himself as being undeserving of it. Yes he did help Bucky escape, but he was also trying to get him help the whole time, not just evade authorities. Steve represents the independent spirit and accountability, Tony represent submission of freedom to government power. Sorry but Tony is the bad guy in the story
THANK YOU I pretty much agree with everything in this video except I have never understood people that came out of Civil War thinking that Tony was in the right. Even as it's presented in this video TONY is the one that made the mistake and I understand why its a good idea to have him realize it, but the fact that in canon the Sokovia Accords don't actually affect him (nvm the fact that the Sokovia Accords never seem to actually DO anything in the MCU after Civil War) because they are directly targeting "Enhanced Humans" or whatever makes the whole story seem like Tony is just projecting his issues onto everyone else and asking THEM to be held accountable for HIS decisions. The worst part is that I think the writers wanted us to get the message that Fringy is giving here but the actual storytelling in the movie just doesn't actually support that.
I was thinking this exact thing when he talked about #3 time-travel option. Harry Potter is a perfect example of it.
I will say though that I don't like this version either because it still introduces problems. Like if Harry and Hermione had simply been told that Buck-Beak escaped and wasn't executed, they wouldn't have any incentive to go save him, but then he wouldn't have actually escaped. They also have no incentive to save Harry's life because Harry already knows that he's safe. It's a circular dependency. B happens because of A, but A also only happens because of B. So why would either of them happen at all?
Another example of this is Arrival. It's a good movie, but it bothers me that she has the future memory to speak the Chinese guy's dead wife's last words. The only reason she remembered that (from the future) is because she has the future memory f the Chinese guy tells her exactly what to say. But the only reason he tells her exactly what to say is because she tells him in the past based on that exact future memory. Again a circular dependency that has no origin. It only exists because it does.
He missed the bulleyes on the Tony part. I agree that I don't think it's damaging to his character to prioritize his family over the world, but I do agree with Fringy's point about how it should have been brought up by the other avengers and fought over, as well as the obvious point about why couldn't the reverse snap put Morgan and Pepper in a stasis so that they didn't go away when bringing back everyone else. Also, I don't think Fringy ever said that the Sokovia accords were the right thing, just that it was what was going to happen after the events of AoU.
The one really gpt fucked was hulks storyline. He was absolutely useless. Hulk and banners relationship got resolved off screen and we were just meant to accept it. We shouldve had a hulk films instead of captain marvel. She shouldve been introduced after the infinity saga as she doesnt get the screen time she needs to solidify her presence in the avengers
When you think about it, Steve's decision to stay in the past so he can be with Peggy is far worse.
After Cap got put on ice, Peggy moved on, eventually. She had her own life, which we know from the "Agent Carter" miniseries - but her career as agent and diplomat were not the most important. The series very clearly tells us she eventually moved on with her private life, grieved for, the presumed dead Steve, but eventually that was over. While we do not know for certain if she had a family on her own, in "Agent Carter" we see clearly see she's at the very least willing to try. But at the end, she had a long, fulfilling life full of nothing but admiration of those around her, be it coworkers or family. It was truly *her* life.
And all of it is gets changed - the path she walked denied... because Steve wanted so. Captain America, the walking breathing embodiment of self-sacrifice in the MCU at the very end commits an act of utter selfishness, changing Peggy's life with her oblivious to it, but he knowing perfectly well what he did but is fine with it because it's good for him.
I mean after all the years of fighting struggling and losing your secondary best friend and watching almost everyone you love die for 5 years I would make a selfish decision like that tok im not saying what he did was right but I think Steve kinda needed this ending
I agree with you and I think Past Peggy wouldn't have gone along with it for a second. Maybe a dance and a kiss but then she wouldn't booted his ass back to the future fight, imo.
1 Self sacrifice is not a virtue, even with that cap is not doing that all the time
2 Pretty sure agent carter can decide for herself whatever she wants to do, you're just judging the writing instead of the character for doing something completely reasonable, and that she would realistically do.
@@BygoneT 1- Yes, yes he does, that's like, his whole theme
2- She had already grieved Steve and moved on, having a family and a legacy of her own, yeah maybe she decided to be with Steve, but he made the decision to come back and erase all that, not giving Peggy a chance to decide
@@vanillabatcave5677 With the way divergent timelines work, wouldn't both be possible?. Agent Carter would have been in one where Steve never returned, while in the main MCU universe, Steve makes his date.