B 25 Engine Failure Emergency in Las Vegas
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- čas přidán 5. 12. 2020
- FlyWire Reviews a B-25 Engine Failure that happened in Las Vegas. Some really good lessons learned here, stick with us. Oh, and there is lots of eye candy photo shots of the Prowler, most from Jim Wilson and a few from Jon Berry. Just because they look so cool!
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FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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I was a controller and an ATC supervisor in a career spanning 29 years. I can tell you that this controller required at a minimum, remedial training (emergency procedures are an annual training requirement). Also, LAS ATC management should have contacted you afterwards acknowledging that you should NOT have been subjected to the rude actions of the controller and that actions were taken to prevent similar incidents from re-occurring. A mandatory briefing to all ATC personnel about this incident should have been required. Sadly, I am embarrassed at the controller's actions.
Well said.
I wonder if this is why the 310R 01G was seemingly reticent to declare an emergency and behave as an emergency aircraft?
I wonder why the supervising controller didn’t jump on the radio?
THAT CONTROLLER'S EMPLOYMENT IN THE STORY SHOULD HAVE BEEN TERMINATED AND NO FURTHER FEDERAL SERVICE EMPLOYMENT FOR LIFE SHOULD BE ACCEPTED!
@@scottoakley3206 There may be, at McCarran, a culture of intolerance of .. single engine out emergencies/problems? It sounds impossible but there might be something here...
When a controller is arguing with a plane in an emergency.... that controller should NEVER be allowed to do that job ever again. The way I see it, when a plane says they are in an emergency and can safely land at a given airport, the controller should make sure it happens. The plane should not be forced to fly over populated areas to a runway that requires climbing in a plane with a dead engine. Those 10 people and the crew, plus the lives on the ground, absolutely COME FIRST! It is great that you were able to land safely!
In a declared emergency, the pilot in command is the boss. No questions. The controller needs a write up at the very least. A review of the rules could also be required.
Good story.
Pilot is always in command. The controller is not in the aircraft.
@@DumbledoreMcCracken And the pilot is not in other aircraft or seeing the rest of the airspace in which he/she is attempting to fly. That is why it has to be a team effort and those on the other side of the radio are called CONTROL-lers. Or, to quote the law specifically, "Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised." (14 CFR § 91.123(b)) In the story of this video, the controller apparently forgot the opening phrase of that same regulation. He had zero authority to require any control action of the pilot once the emergency was declared and understood.
Yeah, agreed. That was nuts.
What part of declaring a emergency did this controller not understand? I’ve never declared an emergency but the occasion never came up.
THE CONTROLLER NEEDS TERMINATION! OF EMPLOYMENT!
Pilot - I am declaring an emergency. GET EVERYBODY OUT OF MY WAY WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.
ATC - Well, crap. This is an inconvenience.
Not as inconvenient as having an aircraft you're controlling go splat into a mountainside because you haven't handled an emergency situation correctly. That, I imagine, is likely to see your career change to flipping burgers...
@@dndds Does anyone actually eat them? I tried one once and I'd have taken more pleasure out of eating a fresh cow pat...
@@dndds 🤣
Controller - You'll learn the meaning of "inconvenience" if you make my declared emergency worse !
More like:
Pilot - I am declaring an emergency.
ATC - We aren't allowing emergencies at this time; please reschedule your emergency and try again.
Pilot - I am unable either to reschedule the emergency or to correct the problem that caused the emergency.
ATC - Then do both! Duh!
Pilot - ?!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pilot -- I'm advising you that I AM landing at (location)! GET EVERYBODY OUT OF MY WAY, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!!
ATC - Ima contact the FAA and get you fired! Nobody disrespects ME like that!
Post-event:
FAA -- Hey, Pilot, we got this wacky message from an ATC that says you violated his space or something? You want to give us your side?
Pilot - (Details flight, circumstances, cites governing FAR, accounts reasonably for any missing information)
FAA -- Yeah, that's what we thought. Sorry you had that experience; happy landings in the future.
ATC - BUT I'M SO ANGRY THAT HE DISRESPECTED ME!
Normal people - How did he disrespect you?
ATC - Were you not paying attention? He had an EMERGENCY, on MY TIME, in MY AIRSPACE! HE VIOLATED ME!
Normal people - You should explain that first to your supervisor, and then to your psychiatrist.
ATC - I don't have a psychiatrist!
Normal people - Not for want of need, we assure you.
I have declared an emergency only once in my life, and "Boy am I Glad I Wasn't Talking To Your Controller!!!" I, on the other hand, was treated like I was the only airplane in the sky, anything I needed was mine. After the ordeal, I looked up the controller and personally thanked him for helping me through this touchy situation. So sorry you were mishandled and mistreated.
As a retired atp pilot and a retired air traffic controller of 22 years, that controller should have lost his job for that . I would have not been nice and told him I'm landing at your airport. He obviously doesn't know what an emergency is.
THE CONTROLLER NEEDS TERMINATION!
And then when I landed i would have gone and paid him a visit 🤣🤣👊👊👊👊👊👊👊💪💪
he should also NOT be allowed back on any airport property
@@cattey5428 i thought exactly the same.
Interesting how this generation of ATC has a militias attitude of “Its all about me!” I’m a retired B737 Captain and I always told my FO’s “Don’t let the monkeys run the banana boat.” Sometimes the controllers forget that they are the monkey and you’re the Captain and it is necessary to remind them who is in charge.
that’s the fun part of the back-and-forth. but once the pilot-in-command said the magic word “emergency”, atc should have dropped the attitude. period.
Sad to say, but there are a lot of new generation monkeys out there!
I agree with you, EXCEPT, you seem to forget that, per the US Constitution, “the Militia” = Every fighting age Adult. The erosion of the fundamentals has led us to dangerous attitudes, like yours.
a number of years ago a lot of people from the east coast moved into vegas,you can hear it in their accents on the radio---heard one atc keep telling a guy to land on xx111 after the pilot declared engine out,emergency---the pilot said f you, clear me to land xx222-the atc finally did,east coast guy,a jerk
Seven thumbs down votes... Looks like the controller and six of his friends have watched this video.
the seven thumbs down are from people who wanted to know what was the cause of the engine failure.
Lol
AND THEY WERE DRUNK AT THE TIME, AS THEY HAD JUST GOTTEN OFF WORK!
@@focusfrenzy9759 Really? Doesn't seem like not knowing that took away from the video and lessons learned.
@Brady Prince The controller must have posted it to his Facebook page!
As a professional pilot of more than 45 years, I can state unequivocally that as Pilot In Command (PIC), once
you declare an emergency, NO Air Traffic Controller (ATC) has the authority to tell you where you cannot
land. ATC can get as mad as they want, but their job is to assist you, and get you and your passengers
on the ground safe and in one piece, not the other way around.
Pilot to controller - "You're flying a chair. I'm flying a 26,000 pound airplane with an engine out. We're going to do this MY way."
Jim - you pre-empted exactly the comment that I was going to make and to quote Tim Duggan above - Absolutely when you declare an emergency ATC only needs to ask "the questions" (SOB & fuel) AND accommodate you completely!!!
Hilarious but absolutely true!!!
@@rogerturner5504 Perfectly stated! Case closed! Probably was a new atc, but I'd think by the time they're put on the controls they'd have that "I'm in charge" attitude adjusted by then!
and with 10 passengers!
@@rogerturner5504 if time allows
I'll remember that line, "My problem is greater than yours." 😎
Glad you told this story-it's been increasingly evident that ATC's tend to forget that as soon as a pilot declares an emergency,THEY are no longer in control-THEIR only job becomes to do whatever they can to help the pilot bring the plane in safely. Maybe there should be a review every six months where they get a stern REMINDER of this. Thanks again for a VERY good video.
An aviator since 1978 and have never heard ATC tell an emergency aircraft that they cannot land at their airport. I wish someone could post the audio of that event. Imagine being the controller who denied a pilot a place to land and being responsible for the loss of a B-25 with 12 souls onboard. Had I been the PIC, I would have certainly had a chat with this individual. (and his superiors)
Even a military airfield like Nellis wouldn’t respond like that to you in an emergency (although you would surely be “met on the field” by armed security).
I can only assume the events transpired as he states but it is so outrageous that I find it hard to believe. ATC would tell an emergency aircraft where it can or cant land!?!?!
@@baomao7243 I can assure you that, once you were determined to NOT be a threat, the sky cops and base operations officials would have treated you cordially (but firmly) and there would be paperwork. But better filling out paperwork on the ground than being underneath and having someone shoveling ground over you!
@@warplanner8852 Yeah, wasn’t dinging Nellis or KLAS “overall.” Just shocked at the ATC handling of the situation.
@@baomao7243 Hey they can point all weapons to me once I am on the ground...I dont care
The following three words will help any Air Traffic Controller (whether a native English speaker or not) grasp the gravity of an emergency situation: “Mayday, Mayday, Mayday”.
That should get their attention, and their cooperation
Or even "Pan, Pan, Pan"
CORRECT! THE CONTROLLER NEEDS TERMINATION!
@@randyvanvliet226 thought the same thing but this idiot controller would have still acted the way they did even with the pan, pan, pan decleration.
@@randyvanvliet226 this emergency required May Day not Pan Pan. the Pan is asking for priority handling, not that the flight might not make it. in this plane at this altiude AGL it was a true emergency.
Fantastic outcome! You saved that B-25 and all souls aboard. Consummate Professional.
Would be a slightly greater (or at least more dignified and constructive) outcome to hear that the controller was strongly reprimanded and returned to remedial controller training classes, before being allow back into the control tower.
@@citizenschallengeYT I beleive we can all agree the controller was quite uncomfortable sitting lopsided in his chair after the unscheduled removal of one butt cheek. I would have given him his walking papers
@@nunyabidness674 Alright. Now I can sleep easier. Appreciate the update. ;-)
Thank you for the detailed story on the events of the B-25 engine incident. I worked at McCarran for almost 16 years, and I hated talking to those guys in the tower. With the exception of one guy on nights that was cool, the rest came across as arrogant and rude. I'm glad that you set them straight as far as what PIC means. I appreciate your experience and training; sorry that we haven't met, you seem humble, mater-of-fact and drama free.
This controller is one of the reasons GA pilots don't declare emergency when they should and probably put themselves in extreme harm.
BULL SHIT
One anecdotal report of a controller in the wrong job does not justify stupid and irresponsible decision-making on the part of pilots. The adult response to the occasional idiot out there is NOT to become one yourself--and anyone who thinks that way needs to turn in his ticket.
@@charlesfaure1189 Thank God, this isn't anecdotal, unless you believe in the conspiracy so produce fake ATC recording.
@@charlesfaure1189 I am with you on this one.
P.s. You should have been cleared to land any runway. he was more worried about keeping airline flights from going around. Tough luck. great video.
You are dam right!
You're absolutely correct I could not agree more!
We often hear about pilots hesitant to declare an emergency, so it is startling in this example to hear ATC adding to your problems, rather than helping you solve them. Loads of good learning points here for all pilots, great video.
Am a retired USAF navigator and civilian pilot. You did the right thing. The controller was behaving in an incompetent manner. Your job was to save the passengers lives and the airplane. You did that. Nice work. The controller needs remedial training.
I like your proper use of the word “incompetent.” It isn’t the common use as an insult - it seems used to describe exactly what it means, “not having or showing the necessary skills to do something successfully.”
True and yet no insult intended.
Well-stated.
@@baomao7243 Correct, no insult was intended, but telling the truth is very important. This controller may do this to someone else and that would not be acceptable.
THE CONTROLLER NEEDS TERMINATION!
Great Job! One lesson pilots need to learn is the controller works for you when you declare a emergency. And if you have a potential issue bring them in the loop ASAP so you can use all available resources.
When a controller becomes unhelpful during an emergency, time to turn the radio off or contact tower directly and "TELL" them what you''re doing....completely unacceptable. Too many pilots allow ATC to fly their aircraft these days. Excellent job.
Any declared emergency I’ve heard on NYC Tracon the controllers first statement is always “Ok, What do need?” then “And when you have a chance relay fuel and souls on board”
Exactly. "How many souls" should have been question 1 or 2.
I loved this and was gobsmacked by the attitude of the controller. Thanks for emphasizing the importance of being in command and the responsibility given to the pilot in an emergency. ❤️👍
Great job on that single engine...right on also on Pilot in Command duties vs Ground Controller. Flew for 29 Years in the Service and had numerous emergencies too, did exactly what you did on these occasions and it worked out just fine because the flying part is done by the Pilot not someone on the ground. Great video!
My dad trained to fly the B-25 at Garner Field, Uvalde, Tx. The war ended before he got sent overseas, but it was one of the proudest achievements of his life to fly one of these. I've always thought it to be one of the most beautiful of all the WWII bombers.Thanks for a great video and bringing back to mind some of the stories my dad would tell about this plane.
Nice job, skipper. ATC often forgets they are there to serve. We can't have the tail wagging the dog. In an emergency, the PIC TELLS the controller what he is going to do. You don't ask, you don't need permission or a clearance. ATC's job is to get everyone else out of your way and provide whatever assistance you need. Don't let anyone dilute your Captain's authority.
Love that old training video!
Good lesson, thanks Scott.
I'm in the UK and I was taught to say "Unable" if a controller wanted me to do something I couldn't, even in a non-emergency situation. I've only ever had to say it once...
Immaculate professionalism was employed by you in this case. Thank you Scott!
Excellent analogy giving PIC the authority to execute a safe landing knowing that particular FAR 91.123d has your backside covered.
Great job, Pilot in Command! No human suffering and loss of life!! No loss of another rare WWII Plane !The Air Traffic Controller had an attitude just like a Bureaucrat!
Great Video, Scott. Thank you for sharing. Hard to believe that the controller gave you such a hard time. Someone needs to free up his future. I just added a P-Baron to my hanger alongside my E33, so single-engine emergencies are foremost on my mind. I hope that I will be as proficient as you should I lose an engine one day.
Excellent story. Angers me to hear of this ATC. What part of Emergency, 11 lives on board, only one engine was he having trouble wrapping his brain around? I would have landed that B-25 on his head. He should have been immediately let go. Thank God there are still a few people around who are capable of critical thinking. Glad to know you and all passengers survived, not to mention the B-25.
I totally agree with the comment from the other ATC Controller/Supervisor! I am also a retired Controller and Supervisor for over 30 years. The controller is required to provide any emergency aircraft with any request. Initially to require you to remain clear of the Class B was totally wrong. Your altitude is precious energy you should be allowed to preserve. Altitude should have been at your discretion. Whatever you needed should have been provided. Even if it meant shutting off LAS traffic! Where was the Supervisor overseeing this emergency??? The controller TOTALLY mishandled this event. He should have received remedial training regarding emergencies. One of the first things is ask pilots request, and do whatever they need! If I was the pilot I would have immediately called the facility as soon as I landed and raised hell! Pilots in an emergency need to clearly stare to the controller what they need, period! Never let a controller badger you into a bad situation. Glad you handled this unfortunate situation so well.
Well done Scott. Exactly right--regarding "Pilot in command"! I (as PNF) had a short "discussion" with a tower controller at ORD when we had an engine failure on take off (at night & in weather). Our difference was that we did not declare an emergency (three engine airplane) but were ready to if the supervisor had not come on the radio & given us 27R (as we wanted) for our DC-10. IN any emergency you must be ready to use the authority afforded in the regulations. More important is to do what is necessary to minimize risk to people in the airplane & on the ground. Well done! (We exploded a 13th stage turbine wheel & get went off the gauge over 1010c.) The F/E looked around for the instructor as we were going through the checklists.
Love all of videos but this one he most. Not the first time I have heard of a controller's ill response to a pilot in a emergency situation. 99.9 are great and will go out of their way to assist you any way they can but there is always one bad apple that just doesn't get it. He needed to told to re train and understand that when a PIC declares an emergency he is now the boss and can do whatever is necessary for the safety of the flight,
God bless you sir and what you do. As u can tell from my profile pic, I am a huge 'Doc' fan. My grandma riveted his skin. I even live under a downwind approach at Eisenhower. We Wichitans like our planes. Keep the history alive, boys!!!
Side note: my grandma's maiden name is McConnell. She had three cousins that you should look up. She took a photo of the 3 of them in their bomber jackets. I have a photo of her wearing Ed's jacket as he took the pic. I love history!
Thanks for sharing. I had a VERY similar situation with a Vegas approach controller back around 2014 when I lost a motor in a Lancair north of Vegas around 15K...I declared an emergency, and got the power to the motor back after quite some time. I told them I was going to return to North Vegas. They told me to descend and maintain 9000. I immediately told him, NEGATIVE, that I'd tell you when I'm starting my descent, I'm direct to KVGT on a 1 to 1 glide ratio and I'm squawking 7700. He immediately changed his behavior into "how can I help?" Probably not the same controller... ;) Thanks for sharing your experience and glad you got everyone safely on the ground!
Thanks for being man enough to do the right thing and not be bullied by an idiot controller. You saved lives that day sir.
Nice video. I am a ground bound person who has sat in the left seat once. I so enjoy listening to pilots talk about there experiences .
First, you handled this well and stood the ground you had exclusive right to after declaring an emergency. Second, this is a great training opportunity for pilots and controllers alike. I was an ATC at LA Center and SoCal TRACON for 27 years. Air Traffic Controllers have a Joint Order 7110.65 called imaginatively enough, "Air Traffic Control". It is the controller's bible. The FAR cite you use was perfect, but there is a corresponding requirement in the 7110.65 at para. 2-1-4a that makes you THE number one priority in an emergency: "An aircraft in distress has the right of way over all other air traffic". To show the importance of that, Presidential/Vice Presidential aircraft are listed under "c" in the priority. I hope this controller wouldn't tell Air Force One, "Not today" if that priority c pilot wanted to land at a different airport. I can't make clicky's here, but it is JO 7110.65Y.
I’m a relatively new pilot but as part of my training we toured and interviewed the local ATC facility. They told us over and over when in doubt- declare an emergency (your lost, IMC. Engine rough or failure)and tell us what you want or need. Your doing so allows us to do things on your behalf that we can’t do otherwise. It never occurred to me that ATC would push back on me when requesting help so I’m glad for this story as that would have completely befuddled me (at a time when you need help most).
Amazing story. Would love to hear the ATC audio. I'm sure it's not on there, but I'd really like to hear the reactions of other commercial pilots on the frequency. They must have been like damn that controller better let that beautiful plane land where he needs to
Absolutely love the emotion you show in this video. You are a Pilots Pilot and are to be commended. I’m but a lowly PPL student and had my first near emergency just yesterday. Flap malfunction during touch and go. Probably a non issue for an experienced hand but had me struggling to maintain climb, speed, and control. Tower was very helpful, even asked if I wanted to declare. I didn’t but these type of videos are reassuring.
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one. It's the paperwork you can't walk away from. Well done for sticking to your plan. A whole new world once you sit upfront.
I sincerely hope that approach controller at least had to go for retraining. That kind of crap can get less experienced pilots killed, along with their passengers and potentially people on the ground...
Can't retrain stupid - this guy needs to be fired so that he can get a job selling fish at the swap meet.
Congratulations to you Scott for successively getting that beautiful warbird and ten lives down safely! That controller can kiss my backside.
As a former controller and pilot you are correct. My job in that situation would be to clear airspace and traffic for you and comply with any requests you make after you had declared the emergency.
Excellent. I was an Air Force Flight Safety Officer at the Wing for several years and I love these stories. Good job!
Scott, thank you for what is truly the definition of a "teachable moment" and a demonstration of the respect and deference that MUST be afforded to the pilot in command during a declared emergency. Only you can know what you are dealing with, and once you've declared that emergency you have enough on your plate without having to explain your decision making process to ATC beyond simply stating "unable to comply." Frankly, it is the controller who should be trying to explain why he did not, initially, accommodate you and move other airplanes out of your way. BTW, did you ever discover the cause of the engine failure?
thanks for saving such an awesome rare warbird.
Excellent video. Thanks for taking the time to film and edit it and of course for positing it for our benefit. Keep up the good work! -Migs
Much appreciated!
Thank you! Well done! The PIC that declares an emergency has priority over the controller. I needed confirmation of that! Your handling of that situation is a great example to all. Thank you for the video.
33 Charlie , you are a Nevada HERO ! 🙌
As a retired GA pleasure pilot I was truly shocked to hear about a controller telling a pilot (in a declared emergency) no, my opinion overrides your judgment about your emergency. That controller is lucky - a man of your knowledge and skill was able to safely put that 80+ year old flying museum on the ground. Your story brings back a memory of a flight I took with my lawyer and his wife in1982. My lawyer had recently purchased a 210 we intended to fly from Oakdale CA to Boston. (over a few days). We had to declare an emergency over Pittsburg. The flight controller offered us every asset he had. It was reassuring to experience a large international airport stop all other flight activity (for about 15 minutes). We were soon happily and safely on the ground. Trailing about 25 to 30 ! emergency vehicles. We felt the FAA put its arms around us. This was less than a year after the PATCO strike.
Thanks for aviation education and sharing your experiences to help novice aviators.
Excellent! Thanks Scott! Juan
Appreciate that Juan!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Loved it. you have a new subscriber. Surprised I've not run in to you before.
@@FlyWirescottperdue If I may ask a unrelated question, Please!
@16:51 What I'm I looking at on the left wing at the( I think ) landing light. Is that a cover for the light or a shade to keep the light out of the pilots eyes???
Thanks for any help you can give!!!
Spc-Lee A Benson 11B U.S Army (RM)
@@leebenson4874 I'm not an expert but it appears to be a glare shield to prevent the light from affecting the pilots and cockpit areas from being blinded.
Just a SWAG on my part though.
I knew Juan would view. 😏👍🏻
A great example of how to handle a emergency! Thx. In 1955 in Edmonton Dad was taking Grandma for a flight in a Fleet Canuck he holding short, a landing B-25 blew a tire, headed directly for the Fleet Canuck, Dad was fast to open the throttle, thus avoiding a direct hit!
Have to tell you, much respect. Only about TWO minutes into the video. My "first" real job flying Part 135 was in Las Vegas with Scenic Airlines. They hired me at 22 years old (I had my ATP, then, under an FAA exemption that no longer exists...the "23-year-old" minimum requirement for an ATP. Because of my time and passing the ATP check-ride (in 1979) I was "grandfathered". LONG story? I few for Scenic Airlines (Cessna 402s and 404s) conducting Grand Canyon tours. Eventually I moved on to the Commuters...and then subsequently to a Major U.S. Airline. I am now retired.
The "controller' NEEDS to be flippin' burgers at McDonald's ! IF he can do so without dropping them on the floor !
Last time I had to deal with a snotty controller was McCarran. Hmmm.
THE CONTROLLER NEEDS TERMINATION!
Me too
Maybe he had a hangover...
I would have been pissed at that controller, but would have done exactly what you did.
Had a throttle cable failure in a Cherokee 140 and immediately declared an emergency. ATC was really helpful.
My Dad was a radio operator for a brief time on a B 25 but mostly for C 47s during the war. Thanks for the video.
What a fine video!
I'm glad you posted this. Nothing is more important than piloting your aircraft as circumstances dictate rather than appeasing ATC. Very good situational awareness and prioritization. 👍
Great recollection of how well you handled the emergency. I'm puzzled as to what possible legitimate reason could the stubborn ATC have, to insist on you going to HIS airport of choice. Was it simply: 'I said so !' If that's the case, hopefully he was reprimanded.
BEING IN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL IS NO PLACE FOR BUTT HURT. THAT CONTROLLER NEEDS DIFFERENT JOB.
Hi Mr. Perdue I just watched your video on the B-25 situation and illumination regarding situational awareness. Great story. I recognize you understood not only how to handle the plane but also the rules which govern. Prioritizing your emergency saved the lives of your crew and passengers. I mentioned in a previous comment how to transition using the two camera set-up. Your dialog pause and pivot to the second camera works, keep that. JJ
Hi Scott,
I’ve a low tolerance for attitude from ATC or anyone else on the radio. Save any attitude for the post flight phone discussion. In the situation you’ve described I believe I’d have commenced a phone call pronto to the ATC supervisor. There’d be some questions I’d like answers to. After the word “Emergency” my job is no longer to not be a problem for ATC.
I have en countered attitude from people on ham radio repeaters that angered me. In this case, lives were at risk. I fully get your comment!
This was a great story ! I just shared this with one of my old students as a great example of PIC responsibilities (and authority) during an emergency !!! Well played, Scott !!!! Thank you.
That is awesome! Thanks!
The story helps me understand why so many B-25’s in my dad’s group failed to return to base after they had single engine failures (mechanical/combat). It was rare for one with a singe engine to return and when it did it usually was accomplished by a seasoned flyer (Captain+).
Scott, after hearing your account of this emergency I have even more respect for you ability’s (you already had my upmost respect). I can only imagine the stress you had to deal with in this situation. Great job with the safe completion of the flight. Sadly Las Vegas has a reputation for not being very cooperative. I’ve learned a a lot from you and your channel. Your work is greatly appreciated, I’m a better pilot because of you. Thank you!
THE CONTROLLER NEEDS TERMINATION!
Now that’s a conversation I would love to hear on VASAviation! Probably not around back then, though...
Yep, it would be very informative.
Excellent job, both the emergency and explanation! Thank you for sharing!
Scott , I had the pleasure to meet , Bob Hoover and Pappy Boyingon on his wheelchair at Torrance Airport in Los Angeles .
Thanks for a great explanation of Pilot In Command responsibilities and Authority.
Bravo Zulu! Pilot IN COMMAND is exactly what it says! Not only saving the lives of passengers, but saving one of the most beautiful twins ever made!
Man, I had pretty much only great experiences with US ATC, and along with UK's, I'd say is the best one I've talked to among the dozens of countries I've landed or have overflown. It is really surprising to see this kind of attitude from him. Can we ask him to write down a phone number too? PS: what a precious piece of historic video right there!
Thank you for you and your military experience. I doubt that anyone without it would have stood up to the controller in such a pronounced way, over a longer stretch of time under the stress of an emergency.
Military aviators are type A personalities and it shows in these situations.
Tell that ATC that if you complied with his instructions he would have an awful lot of paperwork to do, and you are following the prime directive to save the AGENCY from catching and piling a lot of grief on his, their, (and your) heads. "I'm going to McCarran, and ... you will be glad I did."
That was awesome, amigo. It's nice that some important lessons about flying can be learned without a body count. That was a very important lesson for ATC, too. Don't be afraid to declare an emergency if stuff goes south and before it gets out of hand. The latest video from Vasaviation, has an MD-11 losing its #1 engine but still able to hold 36,000'...yet they declare an emergency and divert. Smart move.
Nothing gives me more faith in aviation than pilots making smart moves and getting all the help they can in an emergency instead of cowboying to the scene of the accident.
Great and very informative video. Thank you. You were in the right to request entry into that airspace to ensure safe landing of that aircraft. And certainly not your fault that the air traffic controller evidently bore lack of imperative situational awareness to your situation. He’s not the one attempting to keep the airplane airborne long enough to reach an airport for safe landing. He also needed to take into consideration that heavier airplanes such as the B-25 usually require longer landing distances; and that McCarren was a more practical option than North Las Vegas. I’m sorry you to experience that.
30 years, retired ... IFR, MEL, ag certificated, thousand plus in warbirds, and simply too many, far too many, tales involving ATC and administrative personnel, similar to this unbelievable story. That 140+ VMC in the -25 was always in the back of my mind. At 80+ now, good thing I wasn't in the left seat that day ... I've grown really cantankerous in my old age! Many comments regarding this flight, your actions ... save to say, you HAVE to make your decisions ... and yep ... YOU, PIC, are in command in an emergency. Period. NOT some ground pounder. Really detailed, very properly justified flight decisions, very impressive thinking and real-time flight analysis ... outstanding flight discipline. Good for you ... Good show!
Thanks Greywolf!
I have been in aviation for almost 50 years now, with twenty years as a Transport Canada inspector, and this one really cranked me up. That controller should have been fired on the spot. Great video which I'm going to recommend to our local training establishments. I have always told my students that when you declare an emergency the sky is yours. Hopefully that is still ok....
Not a pilot, never will be but I find myself backing up and relistening as if I am studying for a test. Very interesting and well presented.
Great story and insights. Basically you said that, in emergency according to FAR, you and rest of passengers --- plus people on ground -- are the customers of ATC and they must respect that. "The customer is always . . . . ."
Good story with a lot of lessons for flyers and their support teams on the ground. Good contrast with the 909 crash also. Pilot understood the alternate options and made a single valid choice to get everyone home safely.
A few years back I got a ride on a B-25 EXECUTIVE SWEET out of Camarillo CA WHAT AN AWESOME EXPERIENCE !! 👍🇺🇸
The atc was a control freak. Safest shortest resolution possible! Good vid!
VERY impressive! Good for you. If I ever ride in a warbird, I want you as PIC, sir! I fly a’46 Champ. Love the old birds but occasionally of course stuff goes wrong. I hope I can stay as cool as you if ever necessary. (I practice glides all the time, heck it’s fun.)
Hard to argue with success. You brought the bird and all aboard home safe and sound.
Well done Scott. Once you declared an emergency, if you violate any FAR there is no violation. You are allowed to do whatever you feel is best to save your plane. Declaring an emergency means you are operating in a non normal event. Always declare an emergency when any thing is wrong, even if it is a sick passenger that needs to get on the ground. Well done. Bravo Zulu.
Hi Scott, would it not be prudent to recommend an investigation into this ATC controller?. He clearly was not within the performance of his duties.
He was also not up to his performance of his humanity...
This “controller” was a control freak, and needed to be FIRED! He was clearly in violation of FAR’s because he was interferring with a declared emergency. His obstinate behavior put the lives of all on board the B-25 in grave danger.
Excellent job of managing the whole overall situation. Kudo's
I'm amazed at the controller's behavior, as if he'd never been trained on emergencies. Unfortunately, there are pilots out there without the confidence and experience to assert PIC authority in a situation like that. I'm glad that you, rather than one of them, was in the left seat.
Excellent as usual. I lost an engine on a B737 when flying between LAS and PHX. Essentially this was a non-event because we were approaching top of descent and on a short hop we were below our single engine service ceiling.. We declared an emergency with ATC as per SOP. The passengers and cabin crew were notified of the situation, but otherwise would not have been aware that one engine had been shut down. During the descent, approach control started to vector us around to sequence us behind other approaching aircraft. I had to remind them that we were an "emergency" aircraft" and required priority handling. The B737 actually flies great on one engine, much better in real life than in the sim, but the engine shutdown was due to loss of oil quantity, and as with the Eastern L1011 incident where the oil drain plugs were not properly installed, one cannot take a chance on 140 plus lives. The approach, landing, and roll out were uneventful. We had requested the emergency equipment to be standing by, so after landing we had them inspect the engine, confirmed there were no visible issues so we taxied to the gate.
Well done! Sad you had to remind him, of facts!
Not a pilot but enjoy the videos keep them coming Scott
Speaking from a career at sea I can tell ya there would have been a come to Jesus meeting if someone told me no after declaring mayday or pan.
That is absolutely ridiculous and I am happy you are still with us to tell the story as well.
she is a lovely b-25 hope they keep her flying for a long time to come.
I've flown Commercial and Private in to McCarran without an appointment VFR. The controllers and ground support were STELLAR at the time. One of the busiest terminals in the world the controller for this incident most likely got a severe tongue latching for His actions.
Kudos to you Scott for for taking care of #1 and your passengers and in knowing your FARs.