SpaceX Starship: Raptor Rocket Engine Turbopump Failure Analysis and Deep Dive
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2021
- Understanding the Raptor engines and how they can fail requires a deep dive into rocket and turbopump science. We all saw the death of Starship 11…There was an explosion in one engine as it was being restarted to land.This malfunction caused the entire rocket to blow apart.Elon Musk said that this started with engine number 2…Let’s watch what happened in flight…Here we see the engine bay from what we will call Camera 1As you can see Camera 1 is facing two Raptors with one in the background…He we see a bright flame tracing along something combustible…It reaches this engine, probably designated number 2, right here and seems to set this component on fire…Then we see the flame continuing to trace along to the other Raptors…
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Update: I have been convinced by cogent analysis and discussion that I was wrong about the bright little flame. It is argued to be a pinhole light flare that just happens to trace the fire path. I am now convinced this argument is correct. I don't know why the fire affected two engines without a common element through which to spread. Any ideas? Post them please.
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Now we go to Camera 1, which is facing one Raptor in the foreground and two behind…And we see the fire progress around to another engine…Let’s look at as many components of a Raptor that we can identify…We talked recently about rocket engine hard starts. You can also have a turbopump hard start.A hard start is where too much fuel and oxidizer are in the chamberWhen a spark ignites them.This can cause to much force to strike these blades blowing them apart,Then pieces of these spinning blades fly out as shrapnel and damage other components.That may be what happened with Starship 11…An explosion in a turbopump would not be powerful enough to blow apart a rocket.But if it severs fuel lines or punches holes through the propellant tanksIt could lead to a larger explosion.At some point these engines are going to have to carry people.That will mean isolating them in such a way that a turbopump explosionIn one engine does not lead to the loss of the entire ship.Not long ago a commercial jet engine blew apart in the air and the jetContinued flying to land safely…SpaceX may need to isolate the engines With flame retardant ballistic fabricso that a fire explosion in one has trouble effecting the others.That will be more and more of a priorityAs these fly.But first we need to get them flying,And landing.So, let’s do a recap…To start your engine, you need a fuel injection systemTo pump a very controlled amount of fuel and oxygen Into the turbopump preburner…Most rocket engines have only one turbopump.Making this much easier.Raptor has two in order to increase efficiencyBut it adds a lot of complexity.
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Music credits:
Kevin MacLeod "Lost Frontier" - Věda a technologie
Wow. Just the info I’ve been wanting. If an engine fails, it’s natural to wonder what went wrong yet most of the channels won’t cover this. Superb presentation!
Thank you sir :-)
Agreed. This guy doesn't waste your time with local morning show-type personalities and needless banter. This is great.
Unfortunately, most channels are too busy cheering failure and praising Musk.
@@DavidJohnson-tv2nn Bro, without Musk there would be no Spacex or Starship
@@imarchello With Musk there may end up being no SpaceX or Starship, because the guy is reckless.
Omg, thats the channel I've been looking for the last 2 years.
Very happy to have you here...
The suspenseful music and the calm voice makes me think a jump scare is coming.
Should I randomly add one somewhere in the next one :-)
@@terranspaceacademy You're 13 days too late. Now you have to wait until October!
@@wannabeb3 It’ll be a bigger surprise if I randomly throw it in somewhere between now and then :-) everyone expects it at Halloween!
The jumpscare is a RUD :O
@@nicosmind3 you're name is based, but bitchute is censoring a littlebit
This is like a heating engineers dream! 😅 Great video, great detail! Love the utilisations of the thermodynamics.
Very glad you liked it!
Thank you dude for your efforts explaining these complex engineering fonctions so easily!
you are a one of a kind genius!
Thank you so much :-)
Bloody brilliant video, a lot of effort went into this, and the cutaways and animations made it so simple to understand. As a long time space enthusiast I’ve watched many videos explaining rocket engines but this is the simplest, most comprehensive I’ve seen. Thanks!
Very kind of you to say! We strive to create the lessons we wish we had available when studying these subjects :-)
A good graphic can clarify so many things...
North Korea: ‘Takes notes’
Edit: This channel is underrated! Just saw how few views and subscribers... definitely subscribed and liked. I hope this channel blows up faster than a starship RUD!
Thank you so much :-) I don’t think North Korea is up to it but I have no doubt that China is.
Incredible. That was very enjoyable to watch. Thank you.
Very happy you liked it
Excellent detailed explanation of how the Raptor engine actually works in real life. Thank you for this and all the work with the 3D drawings and cutaways. Subscribed !!! and liked !
Very welcome! The credit for the credit imaging goes to geniuses like Corey Bass, Alex Svan etc.
Only content creator doing Starship technical videos to this degree of complexity. Keep them coming, especially the animations. Top Notch buddy.
Thank you so much! The artists like C_Bass create beautiful artwork, had a little hard science and it goes well :-)
Your attention to motional images is a key to understanding the content. I'm enjoying every post.
Thank you! The educational potential of CGI and AI is almost unlimited :-)
Love how you go into great detail about all your videos
Thank you!
Best breakdown of Raptor engine function and components I've seen - highly recommended,
Thank you so much.
Thank you, very helpful. A lot of work went into that and it shows. Nice calm voice too.
Thank you :-) I am off and told I speak to quickly and I’m trying to correct that.
I have been looking for this kind of information for weeks! Thank you very much!
You are welcome!
What a godsend this channel is! Just the right amount of speed, Information density, explanation and brevity to keep my attention and interrest through the parts explaining thing I already know! Awesome, becoming a Patreon as soon as my finances allow it.
I have just a little nitpick: Try to pronounce things a little more clearly. English is not my first language so it can be difficult to decipher dialects or similar differences in pronunciation For example took me halfway through the video to understand that you were saying "Oxygen". I like your calm voice, just be careful that it doesnt slip from calm into "lazy". No offense intended hope you keep up the amazing content!
Thank you!
Very high quality video. Much appreciated.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
I keep watching this video over and over; there is no comparison with other rocket engine video on CZcams in terms of information presented to the viewer.
Thank you...
Wow, thank you! It is our goal to put education above entertainment. We appreciate your kind words.
That bright dot that traveled across the turbo pump was actually a pin-hole image of the sun that moved across the engine bay when SN15 rotated. It wasn't a flame.
That’s very possible. I thought it was insulation burning off a wire.
@@terranspaceacademy It's not very possible, it is true. Watch the vehicle motion in the fog outside the skirt, note it's speed and direction relative to spot movement and direction.
I was thinking that it was a sun-light illumination from a small hole in the skirt the very first time I saw the video. Turns out I was right! (for once)
This is an outstanding video.
could be... I personally think it's from some sensor with a light on an actuator.
weird how that sun light shadow when it got to the turbo it blew..??
I may have to watch this four or five dozen more times for it to sink in. Great presentation. It really is rocket science.
Thank you so much
Those 3D illustrations are beyond marvellous. Cheers.
Thank you so much
Thanks for that breakdown analysis...!
Very happy to help :-)
Thank you. Great presentation on the function and malfunction of this machine.
You are most welcome :-)
This video is fantastic. Thank you!
Very kind of you to say. Thank you so much.
just found this, amazing presentation. i've been looking for this level of detail since back in the Kestrel days. love it
Glad to have you here!
Wow. Exceptional vids! Love stuff about these engines, awesome! Good work!
Thank you very much :-)
Wow - incredible detail. Thanks 🙏
You are most welcome
Keep up the good work. Thank you for the content.
Thanks, will do! We appreciate you.
Really well done! Just what I needed!
Thank you!!
I really like the new calmer voice! Very cool.
I agree, the calm voice is easy to listen to.
What? No one likes it when I talk like an auctioneer? I will try to maintain the better pace. Thank you for the feedback.
Thanks. What a great learning experience. No wasted time here.
Glad it was helpful!
Wow, your videos are excellent, well researched and informative. Keep up the great work.
Thank you very much Jodie!
Nice job with the post flight !!! Also your narrative of how this all works is nothing short of OUTSTANDING!! Nice job!!
Much appreciated!
Man that was the best video of raptor I have ever seen:) keep up that good work
Glad you liked it!
Really excellent ! Details WOW. Thank you.
You're very welcome!
Well done analysis video, never seen so good , thank You. Great explanation cause effect. Greeting from Germany.
Glad it was helpful! Guten tag mein freund!
Great video. Much appreciated!
My pleasure!
I made a post on reddit before SN11 highlighting my concerns with the Raptor engines continuous failures and it was shot down with people claiming i was making stuff up and it was all just "pressure issues" Im glad to see vindication with both the demise of SN11 and this video that i was right on the money.
You're best friend gently points out and helps correct your faults :-)
Fact is fact and doesn't follow opinion. Keep up the good work.
You did a great job explaining this, its really crazy that this insanely complicated engine starts up in less than 2 seconds
It's an astounding achievement of engineering. I know people are critical of the failure rate but any other rocket engine put through these stresses would have no chance.
Incredibly informative
Thank you!!
Very informative. Thanks
You are most welcome.
Amazing video, thank you!
You are very welcome :-)
Thank you for this detailed technical tour of this engineering marvel!
Turbine engines are in my family: as a freshly-minted engineer, my maternal grandfather left New Zealand and worked for Rolls-Royce in England in 1944, testing the Derwent and Nene engines, which were both historically significant.
Rolls-Royce has been cutting edge in this technology for generations. I am looking forward to their working on a nuclear thermal propulsion system.
I was going to skip this video but I decided to give it a chance and I'm glad I did. You did an excellent job of explaining a complex topic in an understandable way. Kudos.
Thank you so much :-)
Great job! Thank you.
Thank you too!
Excellent! Please keep up the good work, best explanation I have seen.
Very kind of you to say :-) we really appreciate it.
Thanks for this information, and adetailed breakdown of what may have happened. This is te first information I have seen, other than observing the fire on the engine during ascent.
You are very welocme!
Realy good information thanks
So nice of you, thank you.
Excellent and thanks!
Always welcome :-)
Brilliant explanation congratulation well done indeed .
Thank you!
I appreciate your sharing of knowledge.
Thank you very much :-)
Thank you for the information on the raptor engines.
Our pleasure!
Great video!
Thank you so much :-)
Very glad to help. :-)
the answer we,re been looking for///////thank,s for explaining the whole process//////
You are so welcome...
Amazing video with superb explanation. I've always wondered what's inside of a Raptor engine.
Thank you very much!
Wow!
Your level of detail and knowledge of rocket motors in general, and the Raptor in particular, is unique on CZcams so far. My compliments!
It seems to me, the control electronics were damaged from fire, and most valves left in a random state. CH4 and LOX mixed in an uncontrolled manner, causing the explosion.
Again, the excellent work the superior technical level of your content, and the clear explanation made your video highly commendable.
Go SpaceX!
Thank you so much. That does seem most likely and comports with Elon's comments.
we are almost reverse engineering this engine here.. good analysis.
Thank you! I try to create what I would love to find :-)
Very informative.
Thank you :-)
pure awesomeness
Thank you so much :-)
Excellent video
Thank you very much
Thank you for a very informative video; I'm just embarrassed that I didn't find this a year ago.
Glad to have you aboard Mercer and Thank you!
GREAT VIDEO!
Thanks!
Your channel is AMAZING! This is awesome, my kind of channel!!
(it's so good, hopefully it doesn't affect anything with ITAR, lol)
😊 great stuff!
Thank you so much :-)
Wonderful explanation sir. Please continue explaining other components of starship and other space crafts if possible
We will do our best :-)
Brilliant presentation - #Gratitude
Glad you enjoyed it! We appreciate you.
wow great detail : )
Thanks!
That was fantastic!
Thank you so much :-)
Very nice.👍
Thank you!
I wish CZcams would force downvoters to give a reason. Why the hell did 7 people downvote this excellent explanation? :o
Thank you so much!
Well done.
Thank you Johnny!
Thanks Terran space academy that was great information at least we know what happened to the engine’s David ❤️🙏🇬🇧👍👩🚀
Glad you enjoyed it :-)
Great info!! Rocket engines Rock!!!
They truly do :-) there is nothing else like them. When we do eventually have a sufficient power source to go to ion drives everyone will wistfully remember The days of thunder and flame :-)
great vid
Thank you!
Well this was epic 😎 👏
Thank you John!
Thanks
You’re very welcome
Excellent video again - thanks! As these are early prototype Starships perhaps engine isolation measures were not implemented for simplicity. Bet they will be soon!
Great point!
And thank you!
The round bright dot way from hole in skirt and let sun light in (01:29) you see light travel far left of engine #2 and travel alway to left passing over all 3 raptors. The rest was great explanation and graphics. 👍
Thank you.
Easy sub :) Would love some more thoughts on the isolation/containment of engine failure, like examples of how it's done in other rockets, whether it can really be 100% isolating, and whether FFSC makes it harder/easier. Seems like an absolute critera for Starship, or at the very least for the E2E shenanigans that even Shotwell is so confident about.
Great suggestion!
Not much has been done in this area that I know of but I'll do a deep dive for you. Rockets have all been single use before SpaceX. The Mercury, Gemini and Apollo systems were all designed to abort on failure of any major component. If we want to start flying rockets like airplanes we must start using what 100 years of aviation has produced. The safest means of transportation on the planet.
@@terranspaceacademy Awesome!
@@boshacka thank you!
Nice
Thank you :-)
Beautiful work. Fascinating - to coin a phrase. One thing I don't grasp. At about 6:16 you say the pumps are started by oxygen and fuel. Before the pumps have started turning, what causes is oxygen and fuel to get into the pre-burners in the first place? It can't be gravity, can it? there's no gravity in orbit.
I was a doubtful about that spot moving so evenly across and between engines - glad it was resolved.
SpaceX is trying hard to avoid using helium for pressurization or spin up... They did have helium lines on some early models but I thing they'll use pressurized oxygen to spin up and prechill both sides...
Amazing video, thank you. The bright pinpoint of light prior to the engine catching fire caught my eye. At first I thought it was a reflection from elsewhere inside the engine skirt but then I realised it was the Mysterons from Captain Scarlet destroying SN11. Seriously though, I don't think it was a flame tracking as it follows the contours of all three engines, it needs further analysis.
You are exactly correct my friend. It was a bright sun projection through a pinhole as the ship rotated. It illuminated the fires and gave the illusion of starting them.
Very interesting, nobody really discusses the engines in this much detail. All we saw were some flames dancing around the engines, good to know maybe what was the cause of those flames.
I agree, and thank you.
Great content as usual, thank you. Question: shoud it be a better option to use an Electric turbo pump to reduce the posibility of an explosión? Ad astra pro terra
Believe it or not that is the next video :-)
You would require a small *megawatt* powerplant/Tesla megapack just to power it
@@alvianchoiriapriliansyah9882 for something as big as the starship yes you would, But I’ll get into that :-)
@@alvianchoiriapriliansyah9882 True, but an electric pump might still be enough to run or start the pre-burner.
Very good point! Deeper dive on electric pumps coming out tomorrow :-)
This was an excellent video. One of the best and most detailed explanations and imagery on turbo pumps I’ve seen for any engine. I’ve been following rocket and turbine engine development for more than 30 years. This is the kind of stuff I wanted to see when I was a teenager. You should do a more in depth look into the individual parts and function of different rocket engines in future videos. Great work!
Thank you so much Greg! Very glad you liked it!
One thing that struck me at the time this happened, was that SpaceX switched cameras in the engine bay AFTER the fuel valve failure became apparent, in an attempt to downplay it. They remained with the camera 2 view for the remainder of the flight. Also, I wondered if they could have issued a shutdown command from the ground, to remove that engine from the restart sequence in an attempt to save the vehicle. The flight computer had no way of knowing at that point, of a failure, so it started that engine first and the rest is history.
Raptor 2, being the next generation, has a lot less complexity, and maybe they have solved that particular failure mode.
Indeed. Some things slip past the SpaceX guys because of the pace... I think you would always want to start all three engines then shutdown one for redundancy.
@9:00 min. Agree with you to protect the Raptors ....
StarShip are Prototype Test Systems - SpaceX will do whatever is needed to make it safe for Human Flights
Again your video is very informative - Thank you for sharing
Good point, and thank you!
There is an advantage using separate turbopumps for the fuel and oxidizer. You dont need to have an absolutely tight sealing between the turbine and the pumps wheels as is the case for the space shuttle engine RS25 which uses a single turbine for povering both pumps-
Very true and one of the greatest dangers of single turbine systems is fuel oxidizer cross over... You can also vary the fuel/oxidizer ratio in flight by adjusting turbine RPM... this can't be done with a single shaft system, they have to reduce fuel or oxidizer flow while the turbines are still at high speed.
Awesome. Thank the "good" Dr. Von Braun for the modern turbopump.
We was an engineering genius... and he did go to jail for a while for putting Hitler down. You have to respect that. It was not an easy time to be critical of the little corporal.
I always watch SN static fires and test flights. I notice that prior to launch/firing they go through an engine-chill phase (with visible venting even during flight). Do they not use LOX for the engine-chill? In this video you say they use liquid methane.
I'll listen to see where I misspoke or didn't make things clear. No, they use LOX for prechill.
They then send a small pulse of fuel and oxidizer into the turbopump(s) and spark ignite to start them up.
The turbopumps start processing hot fuel and oxygen gas (for the Raptor) and pumping it into the combustion chamber where it is ignited. Valves are adjusted to quickly bring the turbopumps up to full speed and the rocket engine to full power.
So if there was a methane leak and once it reached it's altitude went in to belly flop with no engine to burn it off, did the methane build up in the engine bay and go kaboom on relight?
I don't think so... Elon said a hard start in the methane turbopump of engine number 2 caused the explosion.
If you want to understand these better, watch scott manley's video about engine cycles
He is brilliant.
The RS25's had bad problems with the turbo pumps when they were being developed for the space shuttle.
They did indeed. I wish we had kept improving the F-1... or switched to methane long ago.
Oh So Nice...
Many many thanks
What type of gaskets are used to join the conflats together? Copper, Aluminum, Indium?
Copper alloy almost certainly but I’ll see what I can find.
hi folks! im asking myself if somebody took into accout the enormous lateral forces that occur when someone tilts a fast spinning mass like the rotor of a turbopump. it seems to me that at least the methane pump is only loosely fastened mechanically to the whole engine. im wondering what happens when that fast bellyflop occures and how big the forces might be that try to rip off the pump from the engine. normaly those engines are tested in a rather static maner with only a little gimbaling when running. im not aware that someone tried ever to tilt an running engine full 90° in a way it occures at bellyflop. would be nie if space x can provide some information on that interesting detail.
There could be significant gyroscopic forces generated. That would be interesting to calculate.
I think early in your video, the “bright flame” tracing along is a sun beam and has nothing to do with the RUD. I thought the same thing when watching the feeds after the conflagration, but I came to the conclusion that is just the angle of the sun changing during ascent.
Thank you, I have to agree.
Wow that’s a complex system! Do you think with AI evolutionary design or something like that plus new additive manufacturing techniques andmulti axis CNC the engine can be greatly simplified?
Absolutely... I have no doubt the new Raptor 3 is much improved.
Your " bright flame" is sunlight coming through a hole on the side of the engine bay. The fire already started at around the 1:25 mark behind the component you point to with the arrow.
Thank you. I couldn't imagine why they would have a common line of any type between the engines but the "spark" seemed to perfectly track the fire as it flared. It is indeed just light through a pinhole though. That makes a lot more sense.
Turbo the greatest invention taking us to space
Nothing beats it so far...
Is it possible to make a hybrid engine....upon throttle up the fuel pumps are turning around 17000 rpm, if there was a generator hooked inline with those pumps and an ele tro-magnet around the combustion chamber would that help increase the specific impulse acting like an MPD
Sadly we would be taking energy from the combustion cycle to produce the electricity... we could supplement with solar or nuclear electric as you describe.