LS | HOW I ANALYZE DRAFTS | FULL DRAFT ANALYSIS | C9 vs EG
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2022
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#LS #C9 #EG - Hry
Links to some things talked about in this video:
Original article of 'Who's The Beatdown':articles.starcitygames.com/articles/whos-the-beatdown/
Video followup to that article by one of the best MTG players still/ever PVDDR: czcams.com/video/qmPLPgYayfg/video.html
Can you do this type of video with #sneaky that would be dope 💪🏼💯
Favorite MTG article of all time.
"Draven kalista bans are bad because:
- Kalista is terrible
- Draven is also bad
hahaha you are a freaking joke analyst
@@rrhalelol4668 draven exists as a byproduct of kalista sivir zeri, not because hes good as a standalone, esp not if he isnt flexed. Treasure hunter also plays a part but slightly.
Im not going to explain this when its been explained many times and draven is even on my tierlists but only if you can flex, and he cant come first in a draft.
Youre a mentally deranged person who doesn't even bother to ask why Id just disregard something, true!
@@CCaliCCuttz.IG. Please no. I like Sneaky, but he's clearly an adc brain type of player whose takes fit into 99% of the League community's. I don't think it would be very entertaining or interesting to have such a discussion.
I heard him say Sona jungle and was like, "What now?" and just kind of paused for a bit trying to figure out if Sona was a good jungler until he said, "No no no, Sona and a jungle pick." Nice to know that I'm not the only one not understanding
I was high and came back to realise I wasn’t crazy
Thought it was some kind of challenger magic, that im too platinum to understand
Same LOL
Knowing LS it could be a thing xD
He would make you play it 1000 games in a row (dodge if unavailable) until you figure out who's the beatdown
Always appreciate LS comparing league to card games. It’s one of the most unique views on the game
This is why he could top deck by believing in the heart of the cards.
Neace did this for a long time fyi the comparing to card games, poker to be specific.
I’m so surprised he doesn’t play LOR
@@ThePavin same lol
Don' t know about current lor. But lor in the beginning was way way way more casual than mtg or hearthstone. Which is not sth LS seems to enjoy.
This was probably one of my favorite LS vids, I really enjoy it when he talks like this about draft and when we get insight into how and why he coaches.
Any video where he's breaking down his thought process like this is super dope. I've been watching him for like 7 years now so i'm used to hearing his way of thinking but just having him make a vid like this is super dope and informative.
Hey LS, have you ever consider creating a full on guide about drafting? I think it would be akin to the TCG like deckbuilding in MTG, Yugioh, or Hearthsone. It would be sick to learn about some fundamental ideas of drafting. I know you may have videos in the past, but there may be a lot of new eyes that have trouble going through past vods (cause I am one of them). Keep up the great work! 👍
I think he has already made one years ago that is still not out of date.
@@mr.mc.doesntexist7693 If you don’t mind, could you provide me a link or title of the video since my caveman brain is unable to see anything? I looked at his videos of drafting like the MTG colors and other draft dystopia, but to a noobie like my, I’m not sure what I’m looking at. I’m more concern on topics like identifying win conditions, how to open drafts, how champions should be flexed, etc. I do grasp some concepts in other TCG or games like understanding how the game will unravel 5-6 turns ahead, or in this case 5-6 mins, depending on what I do . Stuff like that would be great for not only the average plat stucker joe like me, but anyone considering above and beyond.
@@vincentpham3938 Commenting here just to see what he answers, as I'm curious about the link as well.
@@vincentpham3938 czcams.com/video/Qj3JV5CeLBk/video.html this one
He should, but I don't think he values or sees the value of putting ideas in writing. Actually going through and writing a type of essay/page/sheet/whatever you call it would spread/disseminate his ideas better than going on stream and ranting. I've been watching LS on and off since season 5/6 but really watching since S9/10 and honestly having a properly written article on drafting/archetype theory would probably be the path worthy of trying.
For one, he could put a ! command into twitch chat so that he doesn't have to go over explaining the same concept every time. This should for sure help with the mental side of things as it does seem to really put him down when he talks strategy. Like you can see from how he talks about strats like freezing, playing certain pockets, draft picks that he really is passionate about that and it seems like it's very fulfilling for him to find strategy like this. But on that note, it must also be pretty depressing when you really love strategy to the extent of caring a lot about the smaller details and then the world doesn't care, or even worse, demonize the thinking using dumb faulty logic that are red flags that the game is dying. I'm no psychologist, but I can totally understand how he must feel like he is being punished for doing something right(pointing out GW in lane vs healers/Collector LUL/hullbreaking into perma teamfight never split/draft jonney depp twitch yuumi bot lane vs amber heard cosplay leblanc vape nash and fat pig rider).
I really love to hear you talk about your thought process in drafting. You've been a huge inspiration to me
I appreciate hearing about league game theory. I feel like so many people could benifit hearing about the idea of trying to identify and play around a win condition. Instead so much of league content is explaining how to carry your team which is not always very helpful.
LS grinding content again. Lets go!
Hey LS, the way you communicate and explain yourself in this video was really clear, even thought you might take the time to explain stuff that are obvious for more knowledgeable people, i appreciate you did so i could've undertand the entire thought process. Congrats.
I loved this style of video, I see the dedication keep up the good work
Nice to see you back and pls do more like this
I LOVE this style of video, great to see you coming back with a banger!
Would love to see a breakdown of the 100T TL draft since you felt 100T won and a lot of people did not.
It basically boiled down to 100T outranging TL so hard (makes it hard for Sivir to fight) and then Sivir/Azir having a hard time bursting down 100Ts comp through Seraphine shields, Senna heals, and the self peel that Gwen and Wukong have.
So TL had a traditional scaling comp that had to play the beat down because they would have so much issues killing people in later fights.
really enjoyed this video with the in depth analysis! would love more of these
It would be really entertaining to see another draft battle with Caedrel. I know you guys already did that, but it’s so interesting to actually see some of your drafting ideas come to fruition in a full draft. I feel like a lot of people would enjoy it.
*standing ovation* brilliant. you're so good at presenting your argument and listing examples and conclusions that come after much observation, including examples that are transferrable from other games at a pro level. i know that at that high level of mentality it's normal (or at least should be), but it's very difficult sometimes to have others follow your train of thought long enough to get it, too, and i think you did that very well here. this was basically a really good video essay to me xD
what's hilarious is that what you explain from who's the beatdown deck is technically not new in games. people discover how to use characters in other games in the opposite way of what is expected, they excel at it, and the same character becomes something new because of its newfound application, but in a very specific scenario. but also, it could be said that here it's not even that. basically, it's knowing what each piece in the draft/deck is going to be used for and then using it that way xD i feel like this is why i have understood a lot of what you say/have said about high level of play despite never having reached that point in any game. a winning comp handled poorly leading to a loss shouldn't be a huge revelation
Calling it now - This will be one of your most successful videos on CZcams.
hey LS, just to tell you that I would pay for an entire series on developing your approach of draft in LoL !
Really liked this format of video. Would love to see another draft battle against other analysts or pros, it would be great content!
It's really interesting to see this kind of analysis on the drafts
You've really changed the way I look at the game LS. So glad you're back. Stay healthy my guy! The LB pick commentary is making me laugh so hard lol
We need more videos like this, I love these analysis type videos so fucking much! much love
Finally! Hopefully this is gonna answer alot of my questions.
I like the way you speak. Also, really deep and at the same time natural way to see the game. Great content
I don't know if you'll read this comment, but there's a team in NA proving grounds called AOE Ginger Tumeric that has some interesting drafts (for competitive play) that I think you might be interested in. Particularly their top (Moosehater), jungler (Keel), mid laner (Cpt shrimps) and support (duoking) go against the grain by picking champions like Fiora, Kayle and Zac for toplane; Udyr, Fiddles, Karthus and Lillia for JG; Gangplank, Xerath and Kayle for Mid; and Blitzcrank, Zyra, Soraka, Senna and Sona for support.
Obviously the level of competition is not as high as top tier leagues, but I think way more consideration goes into their picks. Thank you for the insightful analysis and hope you're feeling better.
Duokingdomone BASED
It's been a while since I clicked so fast on a video. That's what I'm subscribed for, love it 👌
LS you're a champ for staying on this man, keep fighting the good fight
I think this also goes back to everyone playing the same thing and the meta reverting into what always has been because of what LS says during the last minutes of the video. Nobody wants to learn certain comps or don’t figure it out in the end so there are 2 choices:
1) continue to run it down until you get it
2) revert to what you already know and the champions you know so you stop running it down, which’s basically saying that you don’t want to learn and continue playing the same way without innovation
Thank you for coming back. I missed you mentor!
really appreciate this LS. Hope all is well with you :)
Bruh I’ve been waiting so long for you explain this😂
Really liked this video and would love more analysis like this where you go into more detail about key areas of a game rather than the usual costream/ liveview commentary.
Hey LS, would love to see this type of breakdown for an LPL game
Samira Naut because it feels good gigachad
More of this LS
This was brilliant
I may be the minority, but I absolutely love this type of high level break down of what LS is thinking. Please make more!
Very few league content creators can thoroughly explain why something is definitively bad, and they often provide no alternatives.
I love the typical cold LS roasting champions for being bad moments.
Having Leblanc being roasted like a fucking thanksgiving turkey warms my heart.
this might be one of my favorite vids of yours
great to see you uploading again
More of these videos, loving it!
Draft analysis are the best LS videos ngl
This is a very informative vídeo, ty LS!
It's funny how people will say that LS is completely anti LPL but they literally follow his beat down concept.... They are the best at playing aggressive comps because they know what champions are best for that...
I love these type of analysis. I'm curious if you still talk to any of the c9 players and coaches during this split (ofc if you are allowed to talk about that)
the 27 min or so talk of "we are gonna run it until you get it right"
its like a theory professor i had. we are doing this. . . why? . . do you understand why?. . . how do you know?. . . .
actually looking at something. . .ACTUALLY OBJECTIVELY and ACTUALLY trying to understand something is fantastic
love it
This guy not being a coach is such a waste. I don't hate C9 as an org only for kicking him but the kick causing that LS is most likely done with coaching any team for ever because of that experience.
The analogy to card games really opens your eyes to the way league should be played based on comp(decks). Reminds me of watching new players in clash royale picking up different popular decks (control, bait and beat down) and playing them entirely opposite to the way it was meant to.
Now I see why he looks at pro games and his hairline recedes after every game.
Just in case anyone is confused, when he says "sona jungle" he means picking sona AND a jungler, not picking sona in the jungle, dont get any ideas!
Hard seeing LS stress/anxiety scratch always wish he feels better.
THE CONTENT IM WAITING FOR THANKS LS
Hope LS do more of these vids
This video generally illustrates what I LOVE about LS's game theory and knowledge on the game. And also highlights what people dislike about LS in terms of his way of handling people who are opposed to him in some places. It's basically 'the most LS video in a while'.
Love this video explanation! Favorite content
Hey LS reallyyyy love this type of content, since i myself really like to analyse drafts, but also want to be better at it. I really like when you go into depth about why the champions arent good when they are picked at certain points in the draft and why they maybe in general arent good. If you make more of this type of content, i think explaining what other picks would have been better like you did with xin'zhao, it would make everyone watching even happier. But i really love your content in general, but this really is on another level!
Loved this video
Return of the King
I have not yet read the article, but even in the FGC, something less composition/preset based, this concept applies for practice.
To fundamentally understand your tools you have to use them until you find spots and situations where one thing works and one thing doesn't. In fighting games this moreso takes the shape of knowing what move to use where.
To find a use for a move you have use it until you figure out when and where it can help you.
Kog can help you get through enemies, where they have walls and when he is protected.
Having read the article, I guess in the FGC "who's the beatdown" is much more directly applicable. Knowing your archetype and the opponents greatly influences how to play the game.
In melee.
Falco should laser camp Jigglypuff as she has no way to go aggro and bridge the gap.
Falco should not laser camp Marth as he cares less about laser damage and has options to punish lasers or running away.
Not a flawless example as stages and percentages play a huge role in this, but in theory it makes sense.
sry but sona jungle doesnt sound out of your wheel house at this point, you open so many doors lmao
Love these, thank you
I like when you upload "serious" content like that.
Well what he's saying is true every TCG professional plays atleast 30 matches against all top tier decks going both first and second to see what there deck is weak against and what it can struggle through and still win. Really common knowledge to be honest, I'm watching PTCGO people preparing for world's rn trying to figure out what deck works best for them.
Love this!
FINALLY A DRAFT VID
hey man do you have some course of drafting or how champions work ? it would be really interesting. You have a mindset for the game that really intrigues me
best video so far!
Seeing this type of video but for the tiebreaker c9 vs fly draft would be awesome (since they actually drafted xin double enchanter, yuumi zilean, and carries with it) don't know if he even watched the game but damn it's literally what he was talking about in this video
When i heard that you made them play the same comp over and over, it did sound strange. But now with this explanation it makes sense that you want them to understand how the comp works
I can't believe my football coach forced us to run the same play 40 times, I think it's because he hates us, not because the Frontline is missing their blocks 👍
it's so dumb how my band teacher would make us rehearse a single bar for the entire period. he never deserved to win those marching band accolades year after year.
I think the league comparison would be like playin an on hit champ like a long cd mage. running in with cooldowns or sitting in the back instead of auto attacking
Holy shit the, do it until we get it right rant. This is how I was coached when I played sports. It's shocking that no one in esports figured this out.
results-based analysis
If I dismiss layering and just draft on theme is that already better than most drafts?
Would lilia or gwen be considered grey Champs or be good in 3 pick for eg instead of hecarim?
What kind of comps/champs would you pair with tristana mid? or do you think she isn't viable in proplay in the current meta. Would love to hear your thoughts
He should take some more time off to recover.
send this out to some coaches
Hi LS, would you be willing to coach Elite500? He's in Korea atm and I've heard you talk abt coaching him in the past, would be super interesting and informative!
I feel like in a crude way, tft’s system could be used to help explain a lot of what LS tries to convey with champions being along the same school of thought. In a way that traits and origins work, characters can be along the same school of thought and mesh well together. Within those traits, there are certain bis characters as certain units are 1-5 in gold cost. While it’s not perfect, it can be a better analogy as a lot of people already know league characters instead of trying to explain it through terms like MTG
This dude is like a super nerd. I love him
Wait. Running the same comp over and over is toxic? I thought that was called practice. It is like nobody in the LCS ever tried to get good at something before.
So sad we wont get to see LS coach a team that gets him and is ready to adapt and evolve as a team, leaving behind their biases and ready to see the game in a different way.
Pls more content like this
Damn ls you're too smart for this game
People thought LS only drafted enchanter, peeling, non-aggressor comps...when it was the enemy team that always drafted aggressive engage comps.
6:10
What does he mean with there are other champs that can do the same, what are the best 3 picks that he would swap with lb
Could you reasonably pick something like an Olaf top with ghost on R5 if you're C9 here just as a way to try and salvage the comp? It leaves you without any real ways to iniate fights on your own terms besides the LB trying to make something happen but I would think a high gold value Olaf with a yuumi would remove any value the front line of EG has and then the LB, Twitch, or Viego could clean up the characters Olaf has a harder time reaching.
Can you do more videos like this on draft
maybe an olaf jg on R4 was better than viego? i mean its good with enchanter, good against ornn, vi, ahri and sivir. I dont know if polymorph works against olaf if you R beforehand but i could be wrong tho. Just a thought i had when you said "a jg thats good with enchanters"
Cool video
23:30 until end - learning
Please do some lpl costreaming its banging and they do a lot of stuff u hate like wukong and vi and crazy fistfights
Yes good please more
Nice vid
I can't understand shit I think anything's viable but I love watching LS
Would love to see you coaching G2, I think they have 5 extremely flexible players that you could exploit very well,
Would need a change of heart from Jankos. He's stated before he liked watching LS' c9 drafts but wouldn't want to play them himself.
What is the pick instead of LeBlanc? I enjoyed the video a lot but I hate that you are not explaining what should have happened instead.
Not entirely sure myself but some suggestions:
Taliyah, veigar, anivia, zed(?), Heimerdinger (??)
I’d imagine he would think Ivern was the best pick mid, no joke
Imo You have many champs in that situation like Anivia/Malzahar/Liss/Veigar that type of champs and even Sylas was better vs that comp (only first 3 picks considered) and your theme maybe Zed but it was better jg for me
@@totokoostudios viegar zed cant play into sivir lulu heimer anivia are bad into ahri i would suggest syndra
Vlad swain brand orianna yone ziggs azir zilean seraphine cass lux zyra kassadin. A lot of mids that aren't even good vs enemy comp but still better than ds LB too. lb js onky good for burst dmg but her dmg gets outscaled in 2 seconds. She has no merits besides a chain which is not even guaranteed cc because if you stay so long to chain you're getting turned on and one shot. The though process is that she wins lane so you get early prio but why are you picking lb then? So many champs that can achieve that while also being able to scale and has other utility. She also gimps your jg pool by being a luden builder. So if you have double ap you are completely fked if enemy builds 1 mr item.
@LS do you think C9 could pick Ornn R4 and Morgana R5 instead? I think you pick ornn and Fudge takes the L in counter pick. Morgana is an AP jung who can black shield a charm or a Vi ult
Yes that would go on theme with twitch yuumi. Problem is the imposter leblanc and having 4 ap
I would assume that players would all be willing to play there comps repeatedly while also changing one champion because you might not get 1 of them. So the idea is the same but maybe 1 or 2 parts have change but not the fundamental of the comp.
C9: Draft dystopia
I feel like Vi perfectly exemplifies how pro players have no idea of what champs are viable. I guess idk how often she was played before arcane, but it really seems like arcane comes out and BOOM vi is picked everywhere. Jinx is a similar case (granted jinx got a bunch of buffs) but now she is super tagged and people still pick her even though she’s just about the same as she was before the arcane buffs. Like seriously imagine if pro players just practiced more champs and the “meta” changed drastically.
Would R5 be good for aatrox, Yuumi movement speed and R movement speed, should keep up. Fine vs Ornn, I think and is a good Pseudo frontline as he has good healing
No, imo, Aatrox is trash here he should need to be played in tfs as a flank champ Aatrox is not a "tank" he is a carry.
It would mostly suck because a professional player on Ornn would never feed Aatrox the gold required to be useful against such a tanky champ.
nice video
How could you possibly know that? The video is 30+ min long and it has been for 1 minute
@@wilhelmh7777 im better
@@sohann4051 fair enough
@LS if you see this, THANK YOU. I really want to pick your brain on this.
I agree with your statement, LCS will die in a year or so. i am curious, what is the benefit of Franchising in the LCS? Why doesn't the LCS and in general US sports create a league like South Korea or like the English Premier League (Soccer/Futbol)? Would it not be more beneficial and more exciting to see teams be relegated to a lower division and the promotion of teams from the lower league to the top league? It would be great to see academy teams to earn those spots to play in the top league as well. It would show growth and true competition.
I don't see the benefit of franchising other than greed... I really enjoy the European Soccer Leagues because of the emotion and drama within the leagues. The last 2 teams get relegated to the lower league and have to earn their way back in. The top 2 teams from the lower league get promoted into the top league. In order to earn your spot into a Top tournament, you have to be the top 4 or top 5 teams to gain a spot. the League and the regular season mean something. The games mean something and you are playing for something. which means ALL TEAMS would need to try and actually play the game.
I personally, do not like how we have summer split and spring split, but none of that really means anything because there is no reason to really perform. you just have to wait for the tournament to perform because everyone makes it to playoffs. so why even perform? literally it is just 20 practice games until the tournament. The split means nothing.
I just want some of your insight.
I've got a couple of questions first why are almost all twitch build bork first? It feels like kraken slayer plus runnanns is just a bit better in this context since you're looking to execute a sustained fight with sege Yumi and second around mountain dragon if twitch walks parallel to fudge doesn't ahri have to flash in to have even a remote chance to pop twitch in the first place? It looked like it was a split call more than anything to me there the second twitch backs off everyone dies there
Fellow twitch player here, basically runaan is a trash item on twitch and overall( I can't name an adc that builds it) the fact that it doesn't give ad makes you deal negative damage late game and doesn't make you a threat at 2 item, also if you go runaan, you must go ie after that, there are no flexibility because if you go for anything else, you don't have enough ad to be called a threat. Whereas with Bork kraken/galeforce, you can go dominiik 3rd/collector and get a stronger power spike at 2/3 items since both of these items synergizes very well with Bork, making you almost deal %hp true damage. The power spike runaan/ie is for me less stronger than Bork/dominiik since runaan is a bad item, maybe if runaan was stronger than bork overall, it could be nice. Also, yuumi amplifies your existent ad, building an item without ad with a yuumi on you seems like a waste
@@teemomain5913 would you say it's important to note too that it's vs Ornn Vi Lulu? And it seems like their game plan is to snowball from mid prio with Viego LeBlanc so they're opting into an earlier spike?
If EG drafted a squishier frontline as people would in solo queue would it make any sense to go maybe 1st/2nd Galeforce/Collector then Crit?
@@joshabrogena1240 The issue I have with collector second is more of a comfort thing since you lack a bit of attack speed, especially when you ult. However, if your goal is to burst a squishy frontline, you can probably go galeforce, collector with hob instead of lethal tempo. However, some would argue that Bork, in it's current state, brings much more snowball and burst than collector. But yeah definitely viable if you go hob for quick burst