Thank you great points here, Ichiro is my guy on a journey to get all his RC and 2020 Cards. In 2001 I was 5 years old watching him he made me love baseball!
One of my favorite sub-set of modern cards is modern cards of HOF greats - like Allen & Ginter Chrome cards of Ripken, Gehrig, Aaron, etc. It's kind of the best of both worlds, in my opinion... beautiful cards + historically great players.
One of the problems here (Im an old guy so it's not a problem for me) is that the young generation does not know or appreciate who the legends are. All they know is who is trending or creating chaos in social media and that's who they latch on to. In the meantime, I'm gonna continue to sit on the greats from the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Although I approach collecting differently, and avoid modern completely, I enjoyed your content. You stated your points intelligently, calmly, and with a fair amount of supporting evidence. It is clear you have put quite a bit of time into this topic. You're also just as likely (as us old curmudgeons) to be correct when all is said and done. Well done video.
The time to buy vintage was a few years ago. You could get the same cards for 20% to 25% of where they are now. Look at vintage prices from 98 to 2018. It's a very very small slow boring climb. Then boom to the moon.
Been thinking the same thing but then whats the move to make? Its not like modern is cheap, hobby boxes are like 500 bucks and even untested rookies themselves go for crazy money
@@pete5691 The problem with quality vintage cards is the barrier for entry. A five used to be considered collector grade. Very few collector's can afford a five on good vintage cards anymore. If your happy with a vintage card graded a two or three you can still get some good stuff at decent prices. It's tough. A big part of the problem is people graded a lot of vintage cards the last few years that normally would have never been considered worth grading pre 2020.
I really appreciate your takes in this video. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and perspective. You're fast becoming one of my favorite sports card channels to watch.
The thing with vintage before the 90s is it's much more SP when it comes to highly graded GOATS. I collect a lot of hockey as well and a good example is goaltender Patrick Roy. Played in two top markets, arguably the best goaltender of all-time, extremely low RC pop count (90 PSA 10s and 650 PSA 9s), LOTS of collectors love him (easy to sell) and his legacy is set. Modern has much higher pop counts and a much bigger percentage of modern graded cards are PSA 10s. They are obviously much easier to find in better condition when RAW as well. It's also much more volatile when it comes to value due to their legacies not being set in stone. Btw, I believe Hockey is a sleeping GIANT when it comes to value. Much lower pop counts than the other big sports, amazing looking cards and hockey is gaining popularity. I also think the sport is absolutely awesome to watch. Very fast paced and the skills they display are nothing short of insane! As for Baseball, gimme some Bryce Harper and Nolan Arenado. Banking on their HOF resumés and hoping they can win a WS before all's set and done. (St.Louis with Pujols, Yadi and Wainwright would be really special). Vlad Guerrero Jr. Sprinkled in too.
Vintage= safe investments like mutual funds that will generally increase over time, modern= higher risk like penny stocks. Wild swings while generally doesn't retain the value long term. Short term investing leans modern while developing a long term portfolio for something like retirement leans way more Vintage
Glad to hear your opinion on vintage. I assume you mean pre 1980? Definitely something that should be owned as low risk low rewards like a bond in a stock portfolio.
Great job on the video! You really did a great job of breaking down when to invest in vintage vs modern vs ultra modern and a little on what to invest on in each category. If you watch my channel then you understand that I collect a little bit of everything. My main point pretty much agrees with what you are saying but my main message was that if you have a channel that specializes in sports cards investing then you are doing your viewers a huge disservice by not spending a large portion of your content on vintage. Vintage is the only category that has proven to increase in value over time whereas ultra modern has definitely done well over the last couple years and can make you a ton of money in the short term (as you said), MOST modern cards unfortunately will depreciate over time as players don’t live up to impossible expectations or collectors move onto the next shiny object/prospect.
Hey Joe, I have been a fan of your channel for a few years now. Thanks for watching! I agree with you on the long term outlook on vintage 100%. I just thought it would be fun to release a video highlighting the solid points of each part of the hobby. You made excellent points in your video so I thought a follow up was needed. I do discuss vintage in my videos as a long term option and even say that I am more bullish on the established hall of famers. My only issue is that I personally love modern and am more attracted to the shiny stuff which is why I discuss more of a modern approach on the channel. My other goal is to educate others to target the right modern so they can make the correct decision on which modern to target in place of buying hype. Appreciate what you do for the hobby! Thanks for the thoughts and thanks for watching.
@@scottiebcards2354 Dont get me wrong, I love modern too! Really want to grab a box of 2021 bowman draft jumbo…not sure how I have held out to this point. Like I said, great job on the video. Looking forward to future content. You planning to go to AC?
Vintage is a way better investment, but the key is to have some diversity in your collection being markets change and it helps to be able to roll with the punches
Great content, Scottie! Fellow idahoan, here. I actually spent my teens in Burley. Moving there from the SF bay area made for some extreme culture shock! Anyway...didn't mean to write a biography in your comments section. Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight. Its valued and much appreciated! Thank you!
Modern is more like gambling, because anything can happen in a players career. This is why it's important to diversify in many different players. Vintage, like Willie Mays, however, you don't have to diversify. If Mays is all you want, buy Mays. He's cemented in history and will have very safe and steady growth. Same can be said for other legends, like Ruth, Mantle, Aaron, etc.
I have recently returned to the hobby and I wanted to start building a modern collection that I could invest in now and pass on to my son in 20 to 30 years. I watch your videos religiously as they are the most honest and informative videos I have found. I keep bouncing around on what I want to build my collection around. I would love to know your opinion on what you believe will have the most long term value. A Bowman 1st refractor auto /499, a Topps Chrome blue /150, or a Topps Chrome Sapphire?
Hello! Recently getting back into hobby. I'm from the Griffey/Thomas era as a kid. I've noticed interesting cards such as the 2022 Topps Griffey SSP card and ultra modern Griffey/Thomas refractors etc. Would love your thoughts on these from an investment perspective. Or would you steer clear? Thanks!
Just got into the hobby in Oct. 2021. Almost all of my current cards are of up and coming prospects. I don’t have money to diversify quite yet. Am I screwed?
Big secret for vintage people don't talk about much. Know your history of the game and the hobby. Players may not have been the statistically the best, but their popularity with fans and collectors plays a HUGE role in their long term value. Was that player a historically important figure in a championship run? They might stand well above a hall of famer in value just due to that moment.
I collect both. Vintage as more of an investment stand point. With modern cards I only collect a specific team and can care less about overall value of the card. Like I’ll send off a $30 AJ Puk relic auto to get graded. Probably not even worth the cost to get graded.
Vintage to me is tough why because if U buy raw U don't now if the card is real but if U buy it graded it can be really expensive higher the card is graded at.
What do you think defines "vintage" nowadays? Some used to say pre-1970, others pre-1980. But now that it's 2022, I find it odd how anything pre-1990 or even pre-2000 still isn't yet considered "vintage." For me personally, anything that's at least 25 yrs old should already technically qualify as vintage. I mean eventually we're going to have to start moving the goalpost some day as far as what's generally accepted as "vintage." Some day, cards from the 80s and 90s will eventually be over a hundred years old. And if that's still not considered vintage then I don't know what else to say.
Vintage is pre 1973, when cards were released in Series. Only to find out years later that when high numbered series were released it was in much smaller quantities plus kids weren’t buying late in the season so many collections are missing these highly sought after cards. This intrigue makes pre ‘73 something very special.
It all depends on the players you collect for modern cards and if they pan out long term or not. Vintage is safer because the players have already retired and you aren't buying bums. Those have already been weeded out. Buy sealed product and keep them sealed is the smart play for modern cards. You aren't prospecting and trying to find that needle in a haystack player, you are invested in the entire draft class. There is usually at least one great player long term in each draft class.
Pulled a bowman chrome 1st yellow refractor auto blaze jordan /75 out of a $30 box and am selling it, its crazy people will pay so much for someone who’s literally not even in the big leagues yet
In vintage there are also hockey, witch is the best after baseball i think. A lot amazing players in the past with less teams and i like that. 🙂 Big history since the late 1800's. I clearly gonna keep all my Soto, Tatis, Acuna, Trout, etc. that i have... 😉
Neither are. In 15 years these cards will be in garage sales. The only people buying cards now are guys in their 50s and 60s trying to have long lost sets and cards, and younger guys trying to make a quick buck off modern cards. Anyone below 40 could care less, especially kids.
It almost seems like you are saying, unless you are flipping, to wait a few years then invest in a player who is proven rather than buy the prospect cards because eventually they all come down from their highs?
Also modern has and will always have a higher percentage of quality copies floating around. Graded exploded and there are more and more cards getting graded right out of the pack. Vintage had to wait decades. The quantity of high quality examples are far lower and therefore will hold value better
Why are you of the position that Pujols is predominately a mid term hold? I understand that his cards will appreciate the closer he gets to HOF & likely dip shortly thereafter, but wouldn’t Pujols & Ichiro be good long term holds. They’ll be the vintage someday. Thanks & keep up with the great vids & content.
I have been having a lot of fun collecting rainbows of players I like. It’s fun to be being cards for purely my enjoyment and not being worried about value. I’m more excited to check my mailbox for a $15 1/1 of a hometown hero than I am when I was buying 4 figure slabs😂😂😂
Modern cards rely HEAVILY on player performance. For every "sure thing" prospect you'll find tons that go bust after a few years. Vintage is more reliant on condition and availability. It's like penny stocks vs blue chip
Vintage is tough you really have to do your homework and its hard for a collector to relate to players of the past when you say your under 40 years old . Saying that you couldnt get me to investment into any ulta modern post 2018 .plennty of other non vintage and non ulra modern cards to invest in. Roy halladay , arenado, betts , ichiro, pujos , caberara, harper, trout , kershaw, sherzer , goldshmidt ,
RIP Halladay but in 40-50 years he will be forgotten by collectors/investors. Did his stats or death get him in the HOF? Kevin Brown had better stats than him & was completely ignored by the voters. Ichiro, Betts, Trout yes they will be relevant in 40+ years but some of these names I don’t think so.
Maybe eventually but he still needs a few more good years. He doesn’t have the dominant seasons like Trout has put up & no WS on his resume. Guy even leaves the Nats & they immediately win the WS without him.
@@johns.8246 Mantle won 3 mvp’s, a triple crown which he led the entire league in all 3 categories not just the American League and had 12 World Series appearances and won 7 of them which meant he was on national TV almost every year in the post season. There’s were the love comes for Mantle.
You prospectors have ruined the hobby. I was trying to put an 1980 set together Ricky Henderson card is ridiculous. People charging $1000 for an ungraded card. That’s robbery
Thats technically true but now there are hundreds of versions of rookie cards, with parallels, autos, patch autos, numbered cards ect ect. Plus print runs. Im not saying you are wrong, but there are big differences.
Right now is a bad time to put money in baseball. I've been yelling "a lockout is coming" for a year now. So now look. Check out baseball doesn't exist on CZcams. GOOD CHANCE we get a short season that's if we get one this year.. cards are on the way down!!!
I mean it’s not that hard to understand. More rare/low print run cards will have and sustain value. Also HOF & super star players will always (more than likely) go up as opposed to unproven minor league rookies. I’ll just go ahead and keep collecting old Tom Brady cards while you guys collect Anthony Volpe
Thank you great points here, Ichiro is my guy on a journey to get all his RC and 2020 Cards. In 2001 I was 5 years old watching him he made me love baseball!
Very informative. Vintage is sure and safe. I prefer vintage. But the hobby needs modern to keep the hobby alive.
Exactly, i'm glad you get it because a lot of people don't.
Topps Heritage Chrome Refractor rookie cards. Limited to the 500's, beauty of the refractor with the nostalgia of vintage. Win win.
I love these as well. Buying up all the Kelenic and Jazz I can!
One of my favorite sub-set of modern cards is modern cards of HOF greats - like Allen & Ginter Chrome cards of Ripken, Gehrig, Aaron, etc. It's kind of the best of both worlds, in my opinion... beautiful cards + historically great players.
For a young man …. U hold a lot of knowledge!!! Good job……
Vintage because it settles in value in the long run. Modern is driven based on trends
One of the problems here (Im an old guy so it's not a problem for me) is that the young generation does not know or appreciate who the legends are. All they know is who is trending or creating chaos in social media and that's who they latch on to. In the meantime, I'm gonna continue to sit on the greats from the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Although I approach collecting differently, and avoid modern completely, I enjoyed your content. You stated your points intelligently, calmly, and with a fair amount of supporting evidence. It is clear you have put quite a bit of time into this topic. You're also just as likely (as us old curmudgeons) to be correct when all is said and done. Well done video.
The time to buy vintage was a few years ago. You could get the same cards for 20% to 25% of where they are now. Look at vintage prices from 98 to 2018. It's a very very small slow boring climb. Then boom to the moon.
Been thinking the same thing but then whats the move to make? Its not like modern is cheap, hobby boxes are like 500 bucks and even untested rookies themselves go for crazy money
@@pete5691 The problem with quality vintage cards is the barrier for entry. A five used to be considered collector grade. Very few collector's can afford a five on good vintage cards anymore. If your happy with a vintage card graded a two or three you can still get some good stuff at decent prices. It's tough. A big part of the problem is people graded a lot of vintage cards the last few years that normally would have never been considered worth grading pre 2020.
I really appreciate your takes in this video. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and perspective. You're fast becoming one of my favorite sports card channels to watch.
The thing with vintage before the 90s is it's much more SP when it comes to highly graded GOATS.
I collect a lot of hockey as well and a good example is goaltender Patrick Roy. Played in two top markets, arguably the best goaltender of all-time, extremely low RC pop count (90 PSA 10s and 650 PSA 9s), LOTS of collectors love him (easy to sell) and his legacy is set.
Modern has much higher pop counts and a much bigger percentage of modern graded cards are PSA 10s. They are obviously much easier to find in better condition when RAW as well. It's also much more volatile when it comes to value due to their legacies not being set in stone.
Btw, I believe Hockey is a sleeping GIANT when it comes to value. Much lower pop counts than the other big sports, amazing looking cards and hockey is gaining popularity. I also think the sport is absolutely awesome to watch. Very fast paced and the skills they display are nothing short of insane!
As for Baseball, gimme some Bryce Harper and Nolan Arenado. Banking on their HOF resumés and hoping they can win a WS before all's set and done. (St.Louis with Pujols, Yadi and Wainwright would be really special). Vlad Guerrero Jr. Sprinkled in too.
Vintage= safe investments like mutual funds that will generally increase over time, modern= higher risk like penny stocks. Wild swings while generally doesn't retain the value long term. Short term investing leans modern while developing a long term portfolio for something like retirement leans way more Vintage
One thing I love about modern is the beautiful designs they come up with.
Glad to hear your opinion on vintage. I assume you mean pre 1980? Definitely something that should be owned as low risk low rewards like a bond in a stock portfolio.
Good video.. I’m a vintage collector.. but yeah I do buy some modern… both are important in the hobby...
Great job on the video! You really did a great job of breaking down when to invest in vintage vs modern vs ultra modern and a little on what to invest on in each category. If you watch my channel then you understand that I collect a little bit of everything. My main point pretty much agrees with what you are saying but my main message was that if you have a channel that specializes in sports cards investing then you are doing your viewers a huge disservice by not spending a large portion of your content on vintage. Vintage is the only category that has proven to increase in value over time whereas ultra modern has definitely done well over the last couple years and can make you a ton of money in the short term (as you said), MOST modern cards unfortunately will depreciate over time as players don’t live up to impossible expectations or collectors move onto the next shiny object/prospect.
Hey Joe, I have been a fan of your channel for a few years now. Thanks for watching! I agree with you on the long term outlook on vintage 100%. I just thought it would be fun to release a video highlighting the solid points of each part of the hobby. You made excellent points in your video so I thought a follow up was needed. I do discuss vintage in my videos as a long term option and even say that I am more bullish on the established hall of famers. My only issue is that I personally love modern and am more attracted to the shiny stuff which is why I discuss more of a modern approach on the channel. My other goal is to educate others to target the right modern so they can make the correct decision on which modern to target in place of buying hype. Appreciate what you do for the hobby! Thanks for the thoughts and thanks for watching.
@@scottiebcards2354 Dont get me wrong, I love modern too! Really want to grab a box of 2021 bowman draft jumbo…not sure how I have held out to this point. Like I said, great job on the video. Looking forward to future content. You planning to go to AC?
Vintage is a way better investment, but the key is to have some diversity in your collection being markets change and it helps to be able to roll with the punches
Search far and wide for vintage cards and grade them and then tell me that it's low risk low reward
Great content, Scottie! Fellow idahoan, here. I actually spent my teens in Burley. Moving there from the SF bay area made for some extreme culture shock! Anyway...didn't mean to write a biography in your comments section. Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight. Its valued and much appreciated! Thank you!
Modern is more like gambling, because anything can happen in a players career. This is why it's important to diversify in many different players. Vintage, like Willie Mays, however, you don't have to diversify. If Mays is all you want, buy Mays. He's cemented in history and will have very safe and steady growth. Same can be said for other legends, like Ruth, Mantle, Aaron, etc.
Man... that's was a great video! I appreciate all of the hard work you put into your videos. Keep them coming!
Vintage is like gold in a stock market portfolio. It's stabilizes your investment with growth in the long run without crazy ups and downs.
Yeah you also have to look at the age demographics of who's buying the new cards and who's buying vintage cards
I have recently returned to the hobby and I wanted to start building a modern collection that I could invest in now and pass on to my son in 20 to 30 years. I watch your videos religiously as they are the most honest and informative videos I have found.
I keep bouncing around on what I want to build my collection around. I would love to know your opinion on what you believe will have the most long term value. A Bowman 1st refractor auto /499, a Topps Chrome blue /150, or a Topps Chrome Sapphire?
Hello! Recently getting back into hobby. I'm from the Griffey/Thomas era as a kid. I've noticed interesting cards such as the 2022 Topps Griffey SSP card and ultra modern Griffey/Thomas refractors etc. Would love your thoughts on these from an investment perspective. Or would you steer clear? Thanks!
Just got into the hobby in Oct. 2021. Almost all of my current cards are of up and coming prospects. I don’t have money to diversify quite yet. Am I screwed?
Big secret for vintage people don't talk about much. Know your history of the game and the hobby. Players may not have been the statistically the best, but their popularity with fans and collectors plays a HUGE role in their long term value. Was that player a historically important figure in a championship run? They might stand well above a hall of famer in value just due to that moment.
I collect both. Vintage as more of an investment stand point. With modern cards I only collect a specific team and can care less about overall value of the card. Like I’ll send off a $30 AJ Puk relic auto to get graded. Probably not even worth the cost to get graded.
90s hof basketball inserts….golden era of new designs and multi brands
I'll take rare Johnny Bench vintage cards over trashy $100 dollar bills any old day.
Vintage to me is tough why because if U buy raw U don't now if the card is real but if U buy it graded it can be really expensive higher the card is graded at.
What do you think defines "vintage" nowadays? Some used to say pre-1970, others pre-1980. But now that it's 2022, I find it odd how anything pre-1990 or even pre-2000 still isn't yet considered "vintage." For me personally, anything that's at least 25 yrs old should already technically qualify as vintage. I mean eventually we're going to have to start moving the goalpost some day as far as what's generally accepted as "vintage." Some day, cards from the 80s and 90s will eventually be over a hundred years old. And if that's still not considered vintage then I don't know what else to say.
Modern vintage is from 1980-2010. Vintage is pre 1980
I know a lot of vintage dealers who won't buy anything older than 1975.
Vintage is pre 1973, when cards were released in Series. Only to find out years later that when high numbered series were released it was in much smaller quantities plus kids weren’t buying late in the season so many collections are missing these highly sought after cards. This intrigue makes pre ‘73 something very special.
It all depends on the players you collect for modern cards and if they pan out long term or not. Vintage is safer because the players have already retired and you aren't buying bums. Those have already been weeded out. Buy sealed product and keep them sealed is the smart play for modern cards. You aren't prospecting and trying to find that needle in a haystack player, you are invested in the entire draft class. There is usually at least one great player long term in each draft class.
Silver dude makes a lot of sense about all the ultra modern pushing investor videos.
But… what if they don’t play next season? How will that effect card price? Will more people go deeper into vintage ?? 🤷🏻♂️
Minor League (prospects) will still play beyond a lockout. They just won't be called up
This is really well done. Nice job, you just got a new subscriber
Pulled a bowman chrome 1st yellow refractor auto blaze jordan /75 out of a $30 box and am selling it, its crazy people will pay so much for someone who’s literally not even in the big leagues yet
In vintage there are also hockey, witch is the best after baseball i think. A lot amazing players in the past with less teams and i like that. 🙂 Big history since the late 1800's. I clearly gonna keep all my Soto, Tatis, Acuna, Trout, etc. that i have... 😉
If you had to pick one:soto tatis or acuna?
@@pete5691 I dont know enough to choose one in particular...
Neither are. In 15 years these cards will be in garage sales. The only people buying cards now are guys in their 50s and 60s trying to have long lost sets and cards, and younger guys trying to make a quick buck off modern cards. Anyone below 40 could care less, especially kids.
It's usually because there's more modern cards are printed then there are vintage cards
It almost seems like you are saying, unless you are flipping, to wait a few years then invest in a player who is proven rather than buy the prospect cards because eventually they all come down from their highs?
great video!! thanx good stuff on card value trends
Also modern has and will always have a higher percentage of quality copies floating around. Graded exploded and there are more and more cards getting graded right out of the pack. Vintage had to wait decades. The quantity of high quality examples are far lower and therefore will hold value better
Why are you of the position that Pujols is predominately a mid term hold? I understand that his cards will appreciate the closer he gets to HOF & likely dip shortly thereafter, but wouldn’t Pujols & Ichiro be good long term holds. They’ll be the vintage someday. Thanks & keep up with the great vids & content.
I have been having a lot of fun collecting rainbows of players I like. It’s fun to be being cards for purely my enjoyment and not being worried about value. I’m more excited to check my mailbox for a $15 1/1 of a hometown hero than I am when I was buying 4 figure slabs😂😂😂
Vintage was once modern
Show me the cards up today don't really have that feel of the old time baseball cards
Modern cards rely HEAVILY on player performance. For every "sure thing" prospect you'll find tons that go bust after a few years. Vintage is more reliant on condition and availability. It's like penny stocks vs blue chip
Great video! Thank you!
I have 2 teen boys that play baseball. but it seem to me the youth don’t care to collect cards.
What are you considering vintage?
Vintage is tough you really have to do your homework and its hard for a collector to relate to players of the past when you say your under 40 years old . Saying that you couldnt get me to investment into any ulta modern post 2018 .plennty of other non vintage and non ulra modern cards to invest in. Roy halladay , arenado, betts , ichiro, pujos , caberara, harper, trout , kershaw, sherzer , goldshmidt ,
RIP Halladay but in 40-50 years he will be forgotten by collectors/investors. Did his stats or death get him in the HOF? Kevin Brown had better stats than him & was completely ignored by the voters. Ichiro, Betts, Trout yes they will be relevant in 40+ years but some of these names I don’t think so.
@@andrewreid895 Harper?
Maybe eventually but he still needs a few more good years. He doesn’t have the dominant seasons like Trout has put up & no WS on his resume. Guy even leaves the Nats & they immediately win the WS without him.
Just Subscribed.
Mantle
You mean the superior Mays.
@@johns.8246 Mantle won 3 mvp’s, a triple crown which he led the entire league in all 3 categories not just the American League and had 12 World Series appearances and won 7 of them which meant he was on national TV almost every year in the post season. There’s were the love comes for Mantle.
You prospectors have ruined the hobby. I was trying to put an 1980 set together Ricky Henderson card is ridiculous. People charging $1000 for an ungraded card. That’s robbery
Rod carew also has 5 fewer rings than Jeter. Just saying.
Could just hold all modern until they are vintage in 50 years
Thats technically true but now there are hundreds of versions of rookie cards, with parallels, autos, patch autos, numbered cards ect ect. Plus print runs. Im not saying you are wrong, but there are big differences.
vintage cards are like blue chip companies. modern cards are like NASDAQ and NFT's
Right now is a bad time to put money in baseball. I've been yelling "a lockout is coming" for a year now. So now look. Check out baseball doesn't exist on CZcams. GOOD CHANCE we get a short season that's if we get one this year.. cards are on the way down!!!
I mean it’s not that hard to understand. More rare/low print run cards will have and sustain value.
Also HOF & super star players will always (more than likely) go up as opposed to unproven minor league rookies.
I’ll just go ahead and keep collecting old Tom Brady cards while you guys collect Anthony Volpe
What a vague and worthless comment.