I was just thinking the same. It wouldn't take much to thread a couple of chambers in the core, add some more exotic pinning upstairs & downstairs, a few variations in spring tension, and it could really perplex a picker who doesn't have sight of the key or know about the unusual mechanism. Even without those modifications, unless an attacker already knew to expect this lock, they'd probably not arrive at the premises with a suitable length pick. It's a really interesting lock in any case.
hey that's the second Bulgarian lock for the week:) We've had this one on our apartment door like 10year ago. It is quite cheap. I remember a lot of torn pockets because of the long keys:) Greetings from Sofia, Bulgaria.
Of course, but that's why you use an actual decent euro to start with, for example a six-pin which would give you the 12 you want, something with a decent manufacture quality, and as was said above "security pins and all the fixings" - in short, the good shit.
Precisely this. There's no way to have 12 pins in this junky Sonico lock anyway. Just mod an existing good euro cylinder with a similar style cam (can pass the key through it). Hard part would be to create a key that would be long enough. Still would be quite the sight
They should make a ridiculously long lock with a ridiculously long key. At least 20 pins. All of them different types of security pins. And double-sided, so there are actually 40 pins.
Would have been harder to tension if the cores were split. I wonder if that is a realistic modification to increase the Lock’s pick resistance or if the actuator would allow for it... hmmm.
The Mauer GM redline has pins in both chambers and has split cores and makes it harder to tension, but being a dimple it is easier than this one as you have more room to tension it.
I could argue that 99.9% of the people that would attempt picking this lock, would have no idea that this lock was inter connected making it very difficult to pick. I'd think the only way to get the driver pins into place would be to shim the bible and remove on the core installation. Anyway, good pick!
I feel like you'd start to get annoyed after awhile only to stick your pick in the back wondering why it's not opening only to realize there's more pins (if you pick is that long)
you'd also need really long tools to reach the second core so even if you figured out the secret you wouldn't be able to actually do anything with that information
LPL... WOW, love the lock design and how you lengthened your regular-sized pick to a custom extra-long pick to defeat this Bulgarian euro profile double-core. This “ordinary looking” lock appears to provide great picking camouflage. Would gladly carry an extra long key for this double-core security. LPL, thank you for sharing your security expertise.
I remember that in my flat when I was a child we had lock with key that was more than twice the lenght of typical one. Almost sure that was Gerda made lock (Polish company) but have no idea on model. I do guess/recall though that it looked to have a shitload of pins.
If installed externally, I suspect that keyway would be filled with dust and dirt from air blowing through it. Any tight tolerances would fail much earlier in that environment.
I wouldn't say it's bad, just a couple mistakes, which are both still legible. "long core its pretty good idea" should be "long core is a pretty good idea" "thief is just dont ready" should be "thief is just not ready"
I think with a few minor improvements, like security pins etc, this could be a pretty good lock, not just because of the fact you need a customised pick.
There was a euro cylinder lock of similar design in the 90's in Czech Republic made by Guard, a company later, or at that time aquired by EVVA, had six pins each side, security pins as well and you actualy needed two keys, one from the outside, the other from the inside as the profile was of course asymetric and trying for pick resistivity. And they were making it different lenghts on demand.
I think the interesting thing about this lock is that you wouldn't guess from the outside that it was a super long lock and it's highly improbable that someone would have an extra long pick with them. I would put a spool and a super spring on each end though and then you would just bend your pick on the last pin.
Hi there Lockpickinglawyer - I am a big fan of yours and really enjoy watching your videos, however, one thing I have never seen you do is putting the lock back together again after having gutted it. I'd be really interested to see that! Thanks and keep up the good work.
It's cool to see you pick this lock, I just posted my first CZcams video featuring this same lock a few days ago. You picked yours quicker though. I was actually considering making mine into a challenge lock to send to you or Bill.
brett campbell If Bill spent as much time off camera as LPL to research the lock then he would probably pick it as fast. But sending him this lock with a mummified key, I doubt Bill would know to pick both sides of the lock.
We had similar lock when I was young. I think it was a different brand and to unlock it from inside you had to use normal size key but the long one from outside.
I think what wasn't discussed is that it isn't obvious for a usual street-lock-picker is that he has to reach through to the other side, and would maybe give up, when he couldn't pick it from one side after the first 4 pins
So changing the bitting to be a little more aggressive and adding security pins and aggressive springs in the far back could make this almost impossible?
At last, a euro lock that puts up serious resistance to a snapping attack. Prior to this, the best that has been done for snap-resistance is a sacrificial section, but that leaves a core with only 2 or 3 pins so is much easier to pick. Better than nothing, but a combined snap/pick attack on 3 pins might not be beyond some thieves. This thing required decent picking skills even after a snapping attack. It's let down by the design of the core, but the concept is a good one. Tighter tolerances and some security pins would make this a winner. Next problem, that key is going to be a real pain to put in a trouser pocket unless you're wearing cargo pants. With sealable pockets, otherwise the key will jump out when you run. There is *always* a downside to a euro lock. It's inherent in the design.
tip for them is to make the "core" like on a normal lock but that can only be tentioned from the back also if the front core is not picked the back can not moove to unlock but if the front is picked then it can freely moove only 90 degrees in either side ...
I wonder if it would be possible to create a mechanism with which you need to apply tension to both sides of the cylinder, in order to reinforce the idea of using two keys at once or one long one as opposed to being able to pick both cylinders separately. Reaching through the middle part in order to apply that tension would make things even harder.
Interesting lock. This sort of design would defeat the common breakaway lookout keys that cannot be backed out of the keyway. You could just push it all the way through.
That is freaking crazy. I think with some better machining and more security features, that lock could be pretty formidable. Some counter milling, a variety of pins, and having the two cores have different bitting. I know with each core having different bitting, you wouldn't be able to open the lock with the key from either side, but most people only lock there doors from one side anyway.
If its outside of the protecting stuff (door) usally there is no mechanism what determinate what is the opening direction. If its in the door usally you can see what is the direction by the lock side (door opening), because 90% they are turned to opposite direction. In case of chain lock is usally turning right, because mostly pple are right handed and with right hand its comfortable to turn the key right. But any case if you didnt sure what is the key turning direction, you will know soon, because you wont get the tiny turnings of the core. You can use a pencil or marker to see its moved or not...
If its outside of the protecting stuff (door) usally there is no mechanism what determinate what is the opening direction. If its in the door usally you can see what is the direction by the lock side (door opening), because 90% they are turned to opposite direction. In case of chain lock is usally turning right, because mostly pple are right handed and with right hand its comfortable to turn the key right. But any case if you didnt sure what is the key turning direction, you will know soon, because you wont get the tiny turnings of the core. You can use a pencil or marker to see its moved or not...
Can you explain to me what this lock is actually used for normal locks I understand rather they be bicycle locks etc, but these particular locks on this video I can't even picture what they're used for therefore they do strike my interest thanks. PS I watch you Bosnian bill and lot noob and sort of combine y'all's different techniques when it comes to picking locks which has helped considering I started picking locks long before CZcams was ever around back in the 80s again thanks for your interesting videos
I've always figured the requirement of a very long key would be moderately effective. What intruder has time to modify his picks? :-) Given better pinning and tolerances, that idea could work to real advantage. For a while anyway, till longer picks became commonplace!
Make the cam much mode loosely connected to the cores and you'll have difficulties tensioning the second core via the first and having enough room in the keywas for a pick.
Ooh! I'm gonna go to my car to get my long key and see if it's symmetrical like this, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. Also on the other side of the lock that my long key opens, you only use a short key.
@LockPickingLawyer Can you explain why pick from front to back, instead of back to front, just curious lock noob. my logic I would start at the back and work forward, to not over set or bump anything in the front. Thanks
Do you think there is any reason why more locks don't use security pins? It seems like a cheap and easy way to up the security level, but a lot of even mid to high security locks don't use them
More importantly, it will defeat the snappers. Even those with picking skills good enough to attack the 2- or 3-pin core that's left after they've snapped a snap-resistant lock. Since snap attacks are by far the most common on euro locks, even with shitty cores this thing will prevent most thefts.
Odd that it has 3 pine on one side and 4 on another. This concept seems like it coule be very challenging: tight tolerances, counter milling/threaded pin holes, security pins, varied spring strengths, 5 to 6 pins on each side, and a highly pericentric keyway.
I'm just wondering... Would it be possible to connect those two cores in such a way that if you only put tension on the core facing you, then once that core is picked, and starts turning, it will lock up the other core, making it impossible to pick? So unless you put tension on BOTH cores, it will be impossible to pick. I'm not sure how it could be done, but if it's done, it should make it impossible to pick unless you know about this feature.
![[503] Dom "System D" Euro Profile Cylinder Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2p6TY2DiViE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[503] Dom "System D" Euro Profile Cylinder Picked and Gutted](/img/tr.png)
![[302] Avocet ABS Cylinder (Pin-in-Pin, Magnetic Pins, 6 Trap Pins!) Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zq5rGjt-9rQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[702] The Naughty Bucket Chronicles - Mauer NW5 Euro Profile Cylinder Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uGU0tFiJsbs/mqdefault.jpg)
![[443] Paclock 100A LPL Logo Lock Picked and Gutted](/img/n.gif)
You should re-pin that as a challenge lock and send it to BosnianBill as a thank you for the naughty bucket locks.😁
This
Make that a combo lock. One end is a dimple core and the other is a disk detainer core.
I was just thinking the same. It wouldn't take much to thread a couple of chambers in the core, add some more exotic pinning upstairs & downstairs, a few variations in spring tension, and it could really perplex a picker who doesn't have sight of the key or know about the unusual mechanism. Even without those modifications, unless an attacker already knew to expect this lock, they'd probably not arrive at the premises with a suitable length pick. It's a really interesting lock in any case.
hey that's the second Bulgarian lock for the week:) We've had this one on our apartment door like 10year ago. It is quite cheap. I remember a lot of torn pockets because of the long keys:) Greetings from Sofia, Bulgaria.
Someone needs to make a 12 pin version of this! With security pins and all the fixings. I'd want to see that key lol
Of course, add fake cuts in the middle, so it looks like a 16 pin lock. :)
This would make for a truly brutal challenge lock. Throw in one of those ball-chain "pins" anywhere you please and you'll get hours of fun out of it!
Don't forget that this lock has poor tolerance so it wouldn't put up all that much of a challenge once you find a long enough pick.
Of course, but that's why you use an actual decent euro to start with, for example a six-pin which would give you the 12 you want, something with a decent manufacture quality, and as was said above "security pins and all the fixings" - in short, the good shit.
Precisely this. There's no way to have 12 pins in this junky Sonico lock anyway. Just mod an existing good euro cylinder with a similar style cam (can pass the key through it). Hard part would be to create a key that would be long enough. Still would be quite the sight
I think the key is overcompensating...
Greg K i like big locks i cannot lie
It's a good stabbing tool if needed.
For lack of security pins.
This could make an insane challenge lock
They should make a ridiculously long lock with a ridiculously long key. At least 20 pins. All of them different types of security pins. And double-sided, so there are actually 40 pins.
go all out, make it a 4 way key so there's 80 pins
Clever concept but spoiled by quality control. Nicely picked.
That appears to be very weak bitting. Some deep cuts and security pins would make this one hell of a lock
It’s a seven pin lock, with only 4 pins worth of key differs. It wouldn’t be one hell of a lock either way.
I love it, when you bring the ... strange stuff out!
Would have been harder to tension if the cores were split. I wonder if that is a realistic modification to increase the Lock’s pick resistance or if the actuator would allow for it... hmmm.
Grouchy Ed I was thinking about this also. I think it could be solved by indexing the locking Paul on the key instead of the cores
The Mauer GM redline has pins in both chambers and has split cores and makes it harder to tension, but being a dimple it is easier than this one as you have more room to tension it.
I almost want to buy a lock like this simply for the novelty.
This was funny lock but I was disappointed that I didn't get to see the key in action at all.
I could argue that 99.9% of the people that would attempt picking this lock, would have no idea that this lock was inter connected making it very difficult to pick.
I'd think the only way to get the driver pins into place would be to shim the bible and remove on the core installation.
Anyway, good pick!
I feel like you'd start to get annoyed after awhile only to stick your pick in the back wondering why it's not opening only to realize there's more pins (if you pick is that long)
Gunga Dinn the standard trick is to cut a follower tube into 5mm or so slices and feed them in and out slice by slice from the central hole.
@@Luxe388 clearly needs a 3rd core with more pins
you'd also need really long tools to reach the second core so even if you figured out the secret you wouldn't be able to actually do anything with that information
Truly an artist. You make the difficult look so simple. Would love to see how you would design a lock to be pickproof.
He already did that (kinda). There is a way to modify a lock so that it completely seizes up when you try to pick it. Technically, that's pickproof.
LPL... WOW, love the lock design and how you lengthened your regular-sized pick to a custom extra-long pick to defeat this Bulgarian euro profile double-core.
This “ordinary looking” lock appears to provide great picking camouflage.
Would gladly carry an extra long key for this double-core security.
LPL, thank you for sharing your security expertise.
Thats the longest key I ever saw! Thanks for the cool videos. You have god-like picking skills!
He does make it look easy. If I try it, I'd be on it for an hour minimum
@@forevercomputing an hour? Lol. Id probably break my wrist and get blisters too! And still not even be close! Thanks :)
Not as long as the kraken challenges on bills channel
I remember that in my flat when I was a child we had lock with key that was more than twice the lenght of typical one. Almost sure that was Gerda made lock (Polish company) but have no idea on model. I do guess/recall though that it looked to have a shitload of pins.
I was scrolling past when I realized yes, those keys ARE that long and knew I had to watch. Holy freakin cow
I think the main security is that most people won't expect this kind of lock and will be stuck picking one side over and over without success.
If installed externally, I suspect that keyway would be filled with dust and dirt from air blowing through it. Any tight tolerances would fail much earlier in that environment.
Interesting lock design, never seen that before. Thanks for sharing.
Love the gutting when you can. I also appreciate the no-cut takes; I never feel like I've missed something.
Great job picking brother as always and thanks for the review
I Think, the long core its pretty good idea: cheap in production, and the trivial thief is just dont ready to this.
[sorry for my bad english]
Very, very few thieves have the skill to pick a lock.
@@AiMR throwing a rock at a window is a much more easier or a crowbar to pry a window open.
I wouldn't say it's bad, just a couple mistakes, which are both still legible.
"long core its pretty good idea" should be "long core is a pretty good idea"
"thief is just dont ready" should be "thief is just not ready"
Crazy looking lock. Looked like a fun thing to pick.
I think with a few minor improvements, like security pins etc, this could be a pretty good lock, not just because of the fact you need a customised pick.
What we need now is this, but 6 pins either side and an even longer key!
Very cool. Thanks for sharing
Wow....
I love your vids.
Very cool picking..
Such a strange beast of a lock that you tamed easily with your magic wand.😁👍🏻
Make one of these with some threaded chambers, some security pins and a bit more challenging bitting and this would be one hell of a lock!
There was a euro cylinder lock of similar design in the 90's in Czech Republic made by Guard, a company later, or at that time aquired by EVVA, had six pins each side, security pins as well and you actualy needed two keys, one from the outside, the other from the inside as the profile was of course asymetric and trying for pick resistivity. And they were making it different lenghts on demand.
Great video as always!
woah, really good video quality on that zoom in
If you switched the pins for security pins that would be a beast challenge lock.
Great job and video like always
I think the interesting thing about this lock is that you wouldn't guess from the outside that it was a super long lock and it's highly improbable that someone would have an extra long pick with them. I would put a spool and a super spring on each end though and then you would just bend your pick on the last pin.
File in kit always
Wow, nice work.
Hi there Lockpickinglawyer - I am a big fan of yours and really enjoy watching your videos, however, one thing I have never seen you do is putting the lock back together again after having gutted it. I'd be really interested to see that! Thanks and keep up the good work.
It's cool to see you pick this lock, I just posted my first CZcams video featuring this same lock a few days ago. You picked yours quicker though. I was actually considering making mine into a challenge lock to send to you or Bill.
Not dissing on bill but i dont think he would get it open, LPL would get it open probably pretty fast. would be cool to watch though.
brett campbell
If Bill spent as much time off camera as LPL to research the lock then he would probably pick it as fast. But sending him this lock with a mummified key, I doubt Bill would know to pick both sides of the lock.
We had similar lock when I was young. I think it was a different brand and to unlock it from inside you had to use normal size key but the long one from outside.
Liking the Bulgarian locks! Still hoping for a codkey industries padlock pick!
I think what wasn't discussed is that it isn't obvious for a usual street-lock-picker is that he has to reach through to the other side, and would maybe give up, when he couldn't pick it from one side after the first 4 pins
Really loving your videos. You've inspired me to really get in to lock picking. I look forward to the next episode of the Naughty Bucket Chronicles!
Settwi I don’t think there are any locks left 😀. My advice to LPL, another visit to bill, and this time bring a gun 🤣
So changing the bitting to be a little more aggressive and adding security pins and aggressive springs in the far back could make this almost impossible?
seemed like the clicks were louder with this guy
david w pinkston I think it’s a combination of the microphone and the much heavier tension that LPL uses.
Unusual lock. Good idea, has room for improvement.
white finger tension! respect lpl
At last, a euro lock that puts up serious resistance to a snapping attack. Prior to this, the best that has been done for snap-resistance is a sacrificial section, but that leaves a core with only 2 or 3 pins so is much easier to pick. Better than nothing, but a combined snap/pick attack on 3 pins might not be beyond some thieves.
This thing required decent picking skills even after a snapping attack. It's let down by the design of the core, but the concept is a good one. Tighter tolerances and some security pins would make this a winner.
Next problem, that key is going to be a real pain to put in a trouser pocket unless you're wearing cargo pants. With sealable pockets, otherwise the key will jump out when you run.
There is *always* a downside to a euro lock. It's inherent in the design.
(4:44) - Nice little dig there without actually calling anyone out.
Nice strong clicks coming from the lock. Very noticeable with headphones in
Lol eBay addiction, I was going to buy one of those too!!!
I'm always surprised by how fast you pick your locks.
Please start operating the locks (key in and open lock) before you start picking and before you take them apart.
Thanks :-)
Why?
Tell me this is your first time watching LPL without telling me it’s your first time watching LPL 😂
It took him about a minute to pick it, which seems like a long time until you remember the length of the lock.
We have locks that exceeds the possibilities of the average possible with keys that can inflict a lot of skin damage. That's Bulgaria for you!
tip for them is to make the "core" like on a normal lock but that can only be tentioned from the back also if the front core is not picked the back can not moove to unlock but if the front is picked then it can freely moove only 90 degrees in either side ...
I wonder if it would be possible to create a mechanism with which you need to apply tension to both sides of the cylinder, in order to reinforce the idea of using two keys at once or one long one as opposed to being able to pick both cylinders separately. Reaching through the middle part in order to apply that tension would make things even harder.
Interesting lock. This sort of design would defeat the common breakaway lookout keys that cannot be backed out of the keyway. You could just push it all the way through.
sweeeet
That key can be used as a survival tool also, fire wood anyone.
Clever idea and plenty of room for improvement eh!!!
should send you a lock like this without a key.
you would never get in until you took it apart.
I was hoping you'd get a Mauer GM Redline, but this is close enough for now.
Looks like it could be easy to rake. Could you try this? greetings
Will u try to pick the plug upside down ? That is the top pins below ?
I'm kind of disappointed in how easy it was to pick. It looked neat and promising like woah this gonna be a challenge.
When you get around picking again I challange you to pick the similar Mauer. It has not a solid cam like this one but an internal and external key.
I just ordered one 😀
Would have been nice to have seen the key in the lock opening the lock before you picked it: . 😄
Why?
The best thing this lock has going for it is that is is snap proof. Biggest issue with Euro locks.
You could make this a lock that requires two different keys that can be put in either way using master wafers correct?
I wonder where is gets this wacky stuff!! Awesome!
I know, right? I didn't expect to see anything from my country here. And now in almost a week Bosnian Bill and LPL post Bulgarian lock videos.
Did you pick up the mauer red line dimple long key profile cylinder also?
That is freaking crazy. I think with some better machining and more security features, that lock could be pretty formidable.
Some counter milling, a variety of pins, and having the two cores have different bitting.
I know with each core having different bitting, you wouldn't be able to open the lock with the key from either side, but most people only lock there doors from one side anyway.
It should be easy enough to cut keys with bitting that mirrors each other. Then you just have an inside key and an outside key.
Hi I have a question. When picking an unfamiliar lock, how do you know if it needs to be turned clockwise or counterclockwise?
If its outside of the protecting stuff (door) usally there is no mechanism what determinate what is the opening direction. If its in the door usally you can see what is the direction by the lock side (door opening), because 90% they are turned to opposite direction.
In case of chain lock is usally turning right, because mostly pple are right handed and with right hand its comfortable to turn the key right.
But any case if you didnt sure what is the key turning direction, you will know soon, because you wont get the tiny turnings of the core. You can use a pencil or marker to see its moved or not...
If its outside of the protecting stuff (door) usally there is no mechanism what determinate what is the opening direction. If its in the door usally you can see what is the direction by the lock side (door opening), because 90% they are turned to opposite direction.
In case of chain lock is usally turning right, because mostly pple are right handed and with right hand its comfortable to turn the key right.
But any case if you didnt sure what is the key turning direction, you will know soon, because you wont get the tiny turnings of the core. You can use a pencil or marker to see its moved or not...
Can you explain to me what this lock is actually used for normal locks I understand rather they be bicycle locks etc, but these particular locks on this video I can't even picture what they're used for therefore they do strike my interest thanks. PS I watch you Bosnian bill and lot noob and sort of combine y'all's different techniques when it comes to picking locks which has helped considering I started picking locks long before CZcams was ever around back in the 80s again thanks for your interesting videos
Yes challenge lock, put in security pins and change the keys so that you have a right side and a left side keys
I've always figured the requirement of a very long key would be moderately effective. What intruder has time to modify his picks? :-) Given better pinning and tolerances, that idea could work to real advantage. For a while anyway, till longer picks became commonplace!
Make the cam much mode loosely connected to the cores and you'll have difficulties tensioning the second core via the first and having enough room in the keywas for a pick.
Ooh! I'm gonna go to my car to get my long key and see if it's symmetrical like this, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. Also on the other side of the lock that my long key opens, you only use a short key.
@LockPickingLawyer Can you explain why pick from front to back, instead of back to front, just curious lock noob. my logic I would start at the back and work forward, to not over set or bump anything in the front. Thanks
nice clicks on this one
look at that long boye
Do you think there is any reason why more locks don't use security pins? It seems like a cheap and easy way to up the security level, but a lot of even mid to high security locks don't use them
Security pins add mfg cost and complexity.
Judging from the wear on pin 3, I'd bet it was also facing down.
Wouldn't this get gummed up with crud blowing through it from the pressure difference inside and outside the house?
If you came across this in a door and never saw the key do you think it would take you longer to figure out?
If you had this length key on ypur ring you would soon be in the market for a a replacement.
Also this design probably is very easy to bump.
wow kool
Wow, the feedback on those rear pins must feel weird.
Impressive lock.. if you are into length.. ;-)
Wow, what a simple and elegant idea ! That will complicate things for the cocky pickers ! Oh .. nevermind ..
More importantly, it will defeat the snappers. Even those with picking skills good enough to attack the 2- or 3-pin core that's left after they've snapped a snap-resistant lock.
Since snap attacks are by far the most common on euro locks, even with shitty cores this thing will prevent most thefts.
Jeez those "clicks" are more like cracks
👍🏻
now thats a lot of pins...
I am Bulgarian and I have never seen this or similar lock, how did you find that one
Can you turn the actuator without picking? Or is it fixed to those cores in both directions?
Odd that it has 3 pine on one side and 4 on another. This concept seems like it coule be very challenging: tight tolerances, counter milling/threaded pin holes, security pins, varied spring strengths, 5 to 6 pins on each side, and a highly pericentric keyway.
I am from Bulgaria and I have this kind of cylinder. Mine has a long key thats used from the outside and a short key thats used from the inside.
What’s the feedback/feel like once you get that far back with a long pick?
I'm just wondering... Would it be possible to connect those two cores in such a way that if you only put tension on the core facing you, then once that core is picked, and starts turning, it will lock up the other core, making it impossible to pick?
So unless you put tension on BOTH cores, it will be impossible to pick.
I'm not sure how it could be done, but if it's done, it should make it impossible to pick unless you know about this feature.