Joseph and His Brothers by Thomas Mann - Book Chat
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- Joseph and His Brothers by Thomas Mann originally published in 4 volumes:
The Stories of Jacob (1933)
The Young Joseph (1934)
Joseph in Egypt (1936)
Joseph the Provider (1943)
I read the Everyman's Library Edition translated from the German by John E Woods and published in 2005.
Other works mentioned:
The Snail on the Slope by Boris and Arkady Strugatsky
The Maltese Falcon by Dashiell Hammett
This is one of my favorite books. I was shocked how much i loved it even though I was already a mann fan
I just bought the book today, can't wait to read it, great review!
This novel sounds very interesting, and this was a great discussion! I've read Genesis far too many times (all those failed attempts at reading the Bible in its entirety 😅), and this sounds like a great take on it and perhaps a refreshing change from how the story is written in the KJV. I just started reading Mann this year with a collection of his shorter works, including Death in Venice, and, yeah, it was love at first sight. Not light reading by any stretch of the imagination, but hugely engrossing, I thought. I kind of wanted to call his writing style expressionistic? I don't know if I'd be using that term correctly, though. Especially in Death in Venice, I thought he just evoked the protagonist's thoughts and feelings so vividly that even when not much was happening (which was most of the time), it was still gripping. But in any case, I need to finish that volume of his novellas and short stories and then read this, Buddenbrooks, and The Magic Mountain!
I picked up an old used copy of Death in Venice awhile back but I haven't read it yet. For Joseph and His Brothers I'd definitely recommend the 2005 translation by John E Woods. My understanding is that the previous translation (I believe there is only one other English translation) was more formal and "biblical" using Thee and Thou, etc. According to the dust jacket of my edition of Joseph and His Brothers John E Woods has also translated Buddenbrooks, The Magic Mountain and Doctor Faustus so as I'm now a fan I'm going to look for those translations when I go to read those novels (which I fully intend to get to at some point). Mann's writing style definitely has the ability to absorb the reader into the story. This was almost like reading a historical fiction novel while at the same time there was definitely the sense of epic myth as well.
I ran out of time in the video but I had actually also meant to talk a bit about breaking up the book and reading it in parts if a person didn't want to commit to reading the entire thing through. I think that could definitely be done but I would advise to not let much time go between reading one book and another because they do refer back on themselves and the reading experience will be more enriching if you don't let so much time go by that you forget an earlier reference. This is especially important from the standpoint of repeating mythological themes between characters that occur throughout the entire book (all four books). I will LOVE to hear your thoughts should you decide to read it!
A magnificent read!
Great review, I wish it was a bit longer and with more details... Have you read anything else from Mann...
Buddenbroks, Mountain, or Faustus?
Keep up with the vids
Cheers :)
Thanks! It would be a great project to break about the Joseph books into multiple videos and explore the mythology in depth. It's incredibly rich! I have't read anything else by Mann but I have Magic Mountain on my want to read list. I've already purchased the book and it's in queue so stay tuned!
This was a fantastic chat....I liked how you brought in the mythical element and its meaning for you.
Since I sent you an email this morning I have ordered the yarn for another entry for the Rowan fashion show on Sat Jan 26 at noon.....this is the first time for this company which I love. Did you say you were doing double knitting? Is that where there is a design on both sides? WOW!🙀🙀👍
It did take me awhile to get through this book but in the long run it was well worth it :) I got your email so I'll reply more there. I'd love to attend if I can - it sounds like it would be awesome fun and how fantastic that you're going to make an entry for it! I am going to be in NYC a lot in January, I'll have to check my work calendar to see exactly when I'm there. Thanks!!
his 4.volume tetralogy has a much grander theme than, say, _The Magic Mountain_. Mann's prose style (well.translated) was as unique in its day as was the style of Henry James when Hemingway discovered bullet sentences: they both like a sentence that goes on and on on a wanderpath to a certain destination. (If you have not the patience for this kind of sentence, you will find the reading fretful; but if you take your time, and follow the text mindfully , you will get abundant reward).
That's one massive tome! Can't wait to dive in.
Yeah it's basically 4 books in one but well worth the time in my opinion.
Frankly, you seem like a very enthusiastic, uncomplicated man which I hope you'll take as an intended compliment. I'd like to read it far more than iif someone with a "towering reputation for scholarship" had presented it. At my age - 83 - that bores me stiff. Anyway, I'll try it. Thanks again, amigo. :)
Indeed I take that as quite a compliment so thank you very much!
This was a great review Eston. Eventually I hope to read this book because I really like Mann. Have you read The Magic Mountain? There is an opera scene on a mountain top I know you would love. Have a great week Eston, and happy reading!
Thanks Lillian! I have not read any other Thomas Mann (yet), this was my very first. But I intend to read The Magic Mountain and others for sure because anyone who can write something like Joseph and His Brothers I MUST read more of!
I traveled Davos, Switzerland, some years ago last time. And the original hotel was still standing. It looked abandond, with plastic covers everywhere, so i sneaked inside, walked from bottom to top, and it was there, i discovered, the hotel was prepared for demolition! Just the explosives not in place yet! I took an electric control panel with the switches named ,Halle', 'Speisesaal' etc in handwriting maybe from the 1930s which i have in my study until today - and went. Carefully, very carefully downwards. And maybe one of the last artefacts of the real hotel. Anyway, thanks for sharing!
By the way i think this magic mountain hotel, in fact there are two, Mann blends them, i have been in both, the tared down provided for the place and the way from the station to the hotel etc, - had been taken down, because it was in the way of the views of the new Intercontinental - which in fact ist build terrorist proof from the early planning stages on I think, to make it possible to host internationally heighest events there. No simple sneaking in for a cup of tea anymore - come with a car, you'll be an cctv for shure and have your documents ready for prior inspection. The fruits of our globalisation right everywhere. Disgu ...
archello.com/project/new-intercontinental-davos-hotel
I am currently reading so I refrain from watching the video, but want to ask you if you comment on all volumes? Mine is divided into 3 volumes, 500 pages each.
I did comment on all the books within the greater book. My understanding is that originally these were published as separate books but once it was complete the author's intent was for it to be a single book. It was quite a time investment to read it but well worth it in my opinion. Enjoy!
I read a quarter of Magic Mountain and had to put it down due to lack of concentration when i was 27 or so, but I always wanted to come back to Mann. Very interested in this, thanks!
This book is a whopper and takes awhile to get through but if you're into mythology it's well worth the time in my opinion.
Did you say page 1,283? *faints*
Been thinking about reading The Magic Mountain, and I thought that one was a bit overly long 😁
Haha... yeah Joseph and His Brother weighs in at 1492 pages in the edition that I read so it's a doozy. That said, it is divided into 4 sections or books so you could break it up and read one book at a time and take a short break in between and read something else. The books do refer to each other though so don't let too much time go by between books.
You begin your review omitting the Introduction, and the Tale of Jacob & Esau, which introduces a psychology that subsumes what follows. This is not a simple book. Thmas Mann writes sentences as lengthy as the moment when you ask a special favor and wait for a reply.
I'm named after Joseph so I feel a special obligation to read this, I'm excited to get stuck into it
Hope you enjoy it Joseph!
Your discussion makes me want to do a reread. I have the Knopf 1963 edition translated by H. T. Lowe-Porter but it is not as sturdy as your edition. Gotta love those Everyman’s Library editions.
How cool that you've read this before! I just loved this Everyman's Library Edition. From the dust jacket, it looks like John E Woods has translated other Mann which is available in Everyman's Library so if I end up reading them in physical form I'll look for those editions for sure. There's definitely more Thomas Mann in my future (this was the first of his work I've read).
Löwe Portera translations are said just to be no good, really not good. Done too quick, as a Jmjob, for the money, and without proper understanding.
@@JamesBrown-ux9ds given that Lowe Porter’s obese and mendacious grandson is now Britain’s Prime Minister, I can well believe her rubbishy versions were done quickly and ‘just for money’’. Dishonesty and shoddy workmanship are the hallmarks of that worthless family.
Do I need to read the Bible before this?
I don't think so. I wasn't all that familiar with the story and yet I still enjoyed it immensely.
i'm sorry but this was such a superficial review...all you did was to talk about the bible story and try and mingle it with manns story.
The main theme of the book is incest. Period. It begins with his own personal confusion of his origins and has several references to Ninmrod and Lot plus several others. I've not read this one despite having read Magic Mountain and Dr Faustus and was looking forward to a review of Joseph...
You should read the book before discussing it critically. This 4.volume tetralogy has a much grander theme than, say, _The Magic Mountain_. Mann's prose style (well.translated) was as unique in its day as was the style of Henry James when Hemingway discovered bullet sentences: they both like a sentence that goes on and on on a wanderpath to a certain destination. (If you have not the patience for this kind of sentence, you will find the reading fretful; but if you take your time, and follow the text mindfully , you will get abundant reward).
Ohh. Would you say it is a plea for chastity?
Mann finished like a Christian? 😳
Haha! I think Joseph was more concerned with not "contaminating" his spirituality with that of Egypt but he really did have to fight off his would be seducers given that he was so good looking :)