SCRTD - 1972 - California Steam Bus Project
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Steambus
by Peter Adair and Pat Jackson.
San Francisco (Calif.) : KQED, 1972.
Film explores the history of steam power and looks at the steam engine as a possible alternative to reduce traffic-induced air pollution; in particular, looks at the California State Legislature's federally-funded project, initiated in 1968, to develop a steam bus - a project in which three firms were selected to construct three separate buses. Southern California Rapid Transit District and two other district agencies participated in the project.
For more on the project, see California Steam Bus Project Final Report, available online here:
libraryarchives.metro.net/DPGT...
Also, on the subject, from our Primary Sources blog: metroprimaryresources.info/40-...
This is historical footage from the LACMTA (Metro) Transportation Research Library and Archive film and video collection. It may not be reflective of current Metro policy, projects, programs or services. For more information, contact library@metro.net, or see our website: metroprimaryresources.info. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
We put a steam engine in an old CTA bus in 1972 as part of an undergraduate project at Northwestern Univ Mechanical Engineering program. We tested it a GM Proving Grounds in some kind of competition to reduce pollution. It was a modified Stanley steamer, ran well, but had some problems.
Lots to see and hear. The groove track, sounding like "Spirit In The Sky" catches hold and carries you safely all the way to the end. Both the milling machine operator and test bus driver have lit cigarettes dangling from their lips, that's the way it was! Sadly, our country continued on with the smoke-belching, road-oiling Detroit Diesel 6V92s and other members of their 2-stroke family many years after that. The typical GM city bus had a folded 2-speed transmission that was anything but efficient. Many hours riding those. In 1998 our crew developed the first Blue Bird hybrid diesel-electric school bus at Solectria in Woburn, Mass. Glad to see more progress over the years. Thanks for posting this wonderful blast from the past!
It's almost surprising they didn't at least offer a big-block Chevy running on LPG or CNG with a THM400.
@@nlpntcouldn’t carry enough LPG or CNG to make it across town with passengers
Kevin,
I was in NYC, Queens when the Solectria Sunrise made the record breaking Boston to Ny trip on one charge .
Prof Wouk , the Novelists brother
Organized it .hr was prof at NYU and apioneer!
@@josephpadula2283 So wonderful you remember the event, which almost didn't happen! The Solectrians worked hard for long hours to promote alternative transportation. On the night before the event, the Sunrise developed an electrical problem and it was midnight before it was all back together. With no opportunity for a test drive, John Rogers drove it while indoors, back and forth 10 feet and proclaimed it was fine. We crossed our fingers and went home. Soon the morning crew arrived and took the Sunrise to downtown Boston for the big sendoff. Solectria's founder James Worden was not a man with a lot of time for trips to New York, and they didn't do a dry run. As a result, James got lost twice on the way to the Big Apple but still arrived. A camera crew followed him all the way to document the event and prove their was no cheating.
When the Sunrise arrived back in Woburn, there was chuckling how the Brusa NLG level-one charger would take no less than two and a half days to fill the Nickel-Metal Hydride batteries which cost a tenth of a million dollars. The newly-developed batteries didn't even belong to us, they were on loan from the manufacturer.
There was another chuckle about the network television interview on a Manhattan street corner, James lifted up a display model of the car's motor and transaxle using only his bare hands. He made it look easy, and it was, partly because the heavy induction rotor and steel gears had been removed from the inside. Not so much to make it lighter, but so the costly parts could be used in another car and not wasted on a static display.
@@kevinamundsen7646
Thank you for the history .
Yes they were very late and we figured something had gone wrong .
Who killed the electric car movie has the inventor of the NiMh battery that lent the batteries telling of him getting in trouble for doing it .
I loved that car .
I lost all my money in a company called phoenix motor car . We got so close we crash tested cars !
Then the investors had more stick than founders and Angeles and bankrupted the company .
The next company was Tesla …..
People worried about air quality--meanwhile everyone has a cigarette hanging out of their mouth.
Got a smoke?
Hey tandem, remember this! More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette. And don't you forget it!!
😂
I love the smell of tobacco smoke.
Everyone? Not the children with the cutely still developing lungs.
lots of old steam engineers back then from the railroads. Not many left now.
Sadly yes. Here in the UK there is the persevered steam ship Shieldhall. I remember back in the day many of engine room volunteers actually came from the electricity generating board as it was the only pool of steam experience locally.
Most all of your power plants still run on steam. There are a lot of steam engineers left. Siemens Westinghouse, General Electric, are all still building steam equipment until this day. Not to mention the navy ships that run off steam. It’s not common knowledge anymore but it’s far from lost knowledge. I know this because I am a steam turbine technician. 😅
@@shawnjosey8203 I was involved with Shieldhall 20 years ago. I don't know who manages the engine spaces now. So back in the day.........
I really pissy little comments that say fuck all. Bore off.
Sorry to say no more Navy ships are steam except the Nuclear carriers and subs !
The Last Navy ship I know of was the Ponce and it had Civilian engineers running the steam plant !!!
There may be one or two more but the boiler rate BT was limited a decade or more ago .
Gas turbines for warships Diesel engines for Auxiliary type ships .
Bill Brobeck was a superb mechanical engineer who spent most of his career designing particle accelerators at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory. Prominent among these was the Bevatron, where the antiproton was first generated. He died in 1998.
William P. ("Bill") Lear was not an engineer. He was a business tycoon that never finished high school. He was widely regarded as a visionary genius and was the Elon Musk of his time. But he was neither of those (and neither is Musk). Bill Lear simply hired people to work on his concepts and didn't treat many of them very well.
The Lear steam project was conducted at Stead Airport in Reno, NV. As the film states, it used a steam turbine as the motive element. The working fluid was regarded as proprietary and dubbed "Learium" in press releases. I suspect that it was just deionized water. The bus had extensive operational difficulties with high pressure steam that led to rather poor reliability. I think Bill had given up on this program long before it was over, preferring to spend his time at the craps table in Reno (usually at the Holiday).
I knew Moya Lear (Bill's wife). She was a delightful woman.
When I saw Bill Lear's poodle following him around, that said it all. There are a large number of brilliant retired scientists and engineers from the LBL (or Rad Lab) and its descendant, LLNL who were true geniuses of their day, now growing old and gray but still full of life and incredible smarts. And there are plenty of wealthy tycoons who hire them and crack the whips of progress. Regarding Learium, any good water chemist in the utility industry could detail the pros and cons of every possible additive. I've used deionized water in a megawatt-class steam plant but it is called "hungry water," it attracts metal ions and must be run through a resin bed or replaced regularly. And it freezes, not good in New York or Chicago. And god forbid you accidentally introduce any sodium chloride (resin bed cleaner) which dissolves the piping, or bacteria into the system, which quickly fouls it. Deionized water is apparently not the slightest bit antimicrobial.
In the video, it wasn't mentioned what was used for a steam accumulator and there wasn't much room for one. For a vehicle application, rapid control of a variable firing rate is essential for the boiler. Unfortunately without a steady-state firing, boiler combustion can be incomplete, requiring jets of steam to periodically blast away soot which forms on the boiler tubes and the process exhausts black smoke, especially with liquid fuels. Single-stage turbines like the one shown are of relatively low efficiency. The piston version might have been longer-lived and lower cost, but of much heavier weight. It would be possible to build this bus today, with microprocessor control and multistage turbine, but the money and motivation just isn't there. One of the biggest challenges for public transport today is how to prevent violence and the use of firearms, and maintaining public confidence. Clean air takes a back seat to those needs.
Wow... thanks for sharing... BTW those be my legs at 17:07.... really... my summer job back then... darn overalls were never long enough.. great to see Bob, Jim, Carl, Fran and WMB
I remember that very well. Some laugh about it today, but at least they were trying do do SOMETHING, and they weren't trying to take away our personal mobility to do it.
smog was first reported in the Los angeles basin by spanish explorers, in the 1400’s, los angeles had a brilliant and extremely successful electric light rail system that the politicians did away with in the late 1950’s . so smog was here before cars, and the pollution from vehicles had been solved in the 1930’s.
photo chemical smog comes from hydro carbons, first the LA basin is surrounded by a pine forest, pine trees emit hydrocarbons from the pine sap and needles, second the basin shape creates a perfect inversion layer to cook the hydrocarbons into smog and hold it, the indians people that lived here for thousands of years called the basin “the valley of fires “ because of the smog.
there were brush fires since the dawn of time. they make lots of smog
They brought back trains IE streetcars, and the subway system was introduced in the 1990s.
Do you Really mean the 1930’s solved car pollution ?
Dont you mean the 1980’s with Cat converters and fuel Injection ?
The "Red Car" was actually killed by City Lines, Firestone Tire and Rubber, and Standard Oil. They colluded together to drop the price of bus fare so low that the electric railway couldn't make money, then bought it and dismantled it.
Meanwhile Trolley bus and Tram lines were closed down.
The soundtrack is the star.
Oakland - the city across the bay from my city, San Francisco. How I remember.
I have seen Flxible transit busses. It is Flexible without an “E” between an L and an X.
2:00 *this truly is a 4472 moment.*
This is the Doble car. Check out Jay Lenos Garage and see his Dobles and driving them. Incredible.
Like the GM EV 1 automobiles, I saw failure numbering the first prototype No. 666. . Does anyone know what hydraulic transmissions if any were used as GM used V drive rear axles then?
EV-1 had a reduction gear but no transmission .
Single speed.
Wonderful archive film. Pity the sound is so thin.
This documentary was made in 1972.
Probably a 16mm optical sound print that has not aged well. The first thing to go is some colours.
Number 666 has the standard GM New Look front trim rather than the redesigned one GM made for their own turbine-powered prototype. Weirdly that front trim wasn't put in production as a much-needed midcycle facelift or even an alternate (Chevrolet?) version. Number 6200 is a Flxible.
23:31 Did great on the emissions test.
We don't see Steam Buses everywhere now, so they mustn't have succeeded - I wonder why?
What is the fuel creating the steam?
The efficiency of the steam locomotive has been given as 11 percent and that of the electric locomotive as about 20 percent. Neither value compares favorably with the 28 percent estimated for diesel locomotives
So was the bus still burning oil? Or was there a little guy at the back shovelling coal?
There was a little dude injecting hemp oil
Thought it was being pushed by the Union Pacific 4014!
The thermal efficiency of the steam locomotive is so poor because it lacked a condenser for the expanded steam. It just used the steam exhaust to create a draft for the firebox. Then it was released to the atmosphere.
They burned diesel fuel, but because the combustion was premixed and occurred at atmospheric pressure, it produced very low hydrocarbons, low carbon monoxide, low particulates, and low NOx. Probably almost idenitical to an oil furnace burner.
@@MrShobarI wonder what the condensing pressure/temperature was on these. Most condensing locomotives didn't use condensers for added efficiency, only to improve water economy. Many of them suffered an efficiency loss due to high condensning pressure and the difficulty of getting sufficient condesing surface area.
This bus was invented by Bill Lear
Inventer of the Learjet
And the 8track cardrige.
Sadly the coach didn't have an 8 track player!
Dobble did a steam bus back in the 1930’s
I'm addition zinc air batteries were used in Las Vegas buses and also by the German post office. Dates for this about 20 years after this. Steam is hoss with plenty of torque for such applications as this.
Why does the quality look like 1950!
26:31 🤘🤘
25:36 Bus number 666, very creepy.
It's just a number.
One of those boring projector movies we would watch in science class while trying not to fall asleep!😂😂
Not to worry, you won’t be graded.
Steam-powered Fishbowl #666!👹💨
The 1970's was jam-packed full of silly dumb things. This is one of them.
Dumber than today?
@@petepeterson5337
Good question.
The 70’s were way cooler than today!
Blanket statements from another stoopid individual, who loves batteries and battery powered thingies.
Make steam great again. Oh wait, that was 1972. I was in junior high. Guess it just didn't work out. Apparently Elon musk had a better idea.
"...Apparently Elon musk had a better idea..." And that was?
@@MrShobarcomparing your paycheck to his? Well than? 🤔🧨💥🫨🫨🫨😂🤣😅
@@OKFrax-ys2op Musk promptly dissipated billions of dollars of value in Twitter when he took over. An unparalleled achievement in financial destruction.
10:00 I'm wondering how the steam is produced.
The narrator only uses the word 'fuel' .
I'm wondering...uranium ? solar ? wind ?
Then the narrator drops his pants... "like burning a gas stove" .
Well...which is it ? Is natural gas clean burning or is it polluting the atmosphere with carbon footprints, causing the Earth to heat up, melting the polar ice caps and flooding our coastal cities ?
You must be a climate denier. Calm down. Its a 52 year old experimental bus that didnt work and they have been using diesel ever since. That should make you happy.
@-fz1yg 😁 Nah...I don't know much or care much about the climate. I was just curious to see if I shook this tree a little, would a nut fall out ?
One did !
😉 Have a nice day !
It's kerosene.
This wasn't meant to reduce carbon. It was meant to reduce smog. 2 very different pollutants. For the sake of this problem, it doesn't really matter how much energy efficiency the fuel gives, as long the combustion produces fewer particulates.
Smog is caused by unburned hyrdocarbons, of which the average car before emissions controls emitted tons of. A natural gas burner on the other hand emits practically none. There's a reason you can cook a seven course meal with gas, but running a 1969 Cadillac inside a closed room will kill you in a minute.
Never made it to how the bus works. Too much hippie jargon.
Make steam great again. Oh wait, that was 1972. I was in junior high. Guess it just didn't work out. Apparently Elon musk had a better idea.
Actually the Brobeck Bus was quite successful and used in San Fagscrisco for quite a length of time. It used proven Doble steam technology and was as close to zero emissions as you can get with a combustion engine, the emissions being a little CO2 & water vapor.