Facts vs. Myths 17-20 M8 OEM Tune. Is it Too Lean?
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 11. 2020
- Do the 2017-2020 Milwaukee-Eights Suffer the Same as the Twin Cam from a Too Lean Factory Tune? Is a Tuner needed when adding a Stage I Air Cleaner and/or Open Exhaust?
⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️ Click Show More Below ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️
NO TUNE NEEDED when doing a Stage I. SEE VIDEO BELOW
💥💥 SEE VIDEO on the 2021 M8's Here- • 2021-23 Harley Milwauk...
💥 Link to Info & Dyno Charts on M8 Tunes- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwa...
💥 Link to Outlaw HiFlow Performance Air Cleaners- www.dkcustomproducts.com/air-c...
💥 Link To an Overview of Tuning Options- www.dkcustomproducts.com/overv...
💥 Link to Details on XiED's, ViED's, Power Vision & FP3 Tuners- www.dkcustomproducts.com/efi-t...
➡️ Link to Written Report on Why & How to Cool Down Your Twin Cam and M8 Engine- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-h...
🏍️ Thank you for tuning in! Be sure to Like / Comment / Subscribe
✅ Get Your DK Custom Products Here
www.dkcustomproducts.com/
🛒 Our Gear & Amazon
Check out our new Amazon page for the gear we use!
www.amazon.com/shop/dkcustomp...
➡️ SOCIAL MEDIA - CONNECT WITH US
/ dkcustomproducts
/ dkcustom1
/ dkcustom
/ dkcustom
📸 Our Camera Gear: www.amazon.com/shop/dkcustomp...
EMAIL: Support@DKCustomProducts.com
The DK Team - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Best explanation I have seen yet on a high flow a/c in a M8 👍
Thanks. Glad you liked it. 👍
great info ! i hope you'll do the same kind of analysis on a few popular exhaust systems/slip ons .
Thank you, glad you enjoyed!
You may find this video useful- czcams.com/video/H681dl2X_f4/video.html
Another one you may find useful- czcams.com/video/g2VB0nBFhTQ/video.html
This written report is also useful- www.dkcustomproducts.com/harley-exhaust-myths-and-facts.htm
Hey guys I used to read manuals I still do but as we all know there's somethings or alot of things you just can't find in books you learn from experience or DK customs keep it coming guys excellent job👍
Thanks man. Glad you're finding the videos useful. Appreciate the comment.
Thank you for the video. Guys like you taking the time to do this are much appreciated for the do it your selfers.
Thanks for watching, and great to hear you are finding the videos useful! 👍
I so needed to see this video. Would love to see progression videos to see AFR results when changing slip-ons and then a full catless header. Keep up the great work guys.
You might like the video linked below. One of the bikes in it had our free flowing intake and slip-ons...if I remember correctly it still had the OEM header with the cat in it.
But we have done many runs with and then without the cat, it does not make a difference in the AFR...video on cat at the bottom below.
czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
czcams.com/video/ks39Gwb3NdI/video.html
Just awesome, AWESOME, stuff from DK customs, as usual. Thank you guys sooooo much for the information you make available to us Harley riders!
I just traded in my iron 883 for a left over 2021 Low Rider S with the 114 M8 and I pulled my awesome DK customs 587 breather and my catch can setup off the iron before they picked it up. I was going to install the catch can but figured the breather would be useless without a tune, so thanks again for the information.
Thank you for the comment. Much appreciated, and glad you are finding the videos useful. Very happy to hear you are enjoying the parts.
Enjoy your new ride!👍
Thanks for uploading this video. Very informative.
Thanks, glad you found it useful.
Ps: Doc Harley recommends the same and in a response afterwards noted there is no selection in the Harley tuner for just an air cleaner upgrade!! Good job !!
Thank you. Yes, there are still a bunch of people (individuals and dealerships) that are perpetuating the falsehood that the M8 has the same lean problem as the Twin Cam. It does not.
We have even removed some comments from this video of people that still posted that the M8 needs to have a tuner if a free flowing A/C and/or exhaust are added. We don't generally remove comments, but letting them stay can just further confuse what should be clear...a tuner is NOT needed to correct a too lean issue, since they are not too lean.
@@DKCustomProducts hey! What’s the deal with the 2021 m8? What’s the best option? Slip ons and a PV tune? Is the stock cleaner all good for a stage one? What’s the best way forward. Don’t want something too loud. Rinehart DBX45?
@@Blackbeltjiujitsu Here is the video on the 2021 M8 models- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
Don't know which 2021 M8 you have, but one of the Outlaw Air Cleaners (they all come with an EBS) will significantly improve performance over the stock air cleaner. Here's a video showing just one of them- czcams.com/video/KtbdOoVNL9g/video.html
You can run an Outlaw Air Cleaner and open exhaust with the stock tune. With a PV tune it will improve performance...but not as much as the air cleaner will improve it, and no damage will occur if you run the OEM tune.
Regarding exhaust, that is a tricky question. Everyone's ears are different. This is the best advice we can give for someone not wanting to loud of exhaust-
czcams.com/video/H681dl2X_f4/video.html
@Scooby doo Just put the DBX45 On my 21 roadglide. Totally change the way my bike runs And it sounds excellent. Check out direct cycle parts. Every place wanted $755 shipped with tax. Direct cycle Parts $579. No tax no shipping. I saved the $179. Just ordered the screaming eagle heavy air breather. I'm gonna slap it on without a tune and see what happens
Thank you! I have a 2021 Road glide with that 3rd 02 sensor.
Excellent video, bought a lightly used 2017 RG Special, dealer told me he would throw in the SE street tuner and high flow air. I declined, now watching this glad I did. Saved me 800 that I can put towards Air cleaner and slip ons
Yeah, even though they will run a bit better with a tune, if you want a tuner, better to go with one like the Power Vision or FP3 than the EPA SE.
Glad you enjoyed the video and found it useful. Always feel free to call or email with any questions.
Once again, a great and knowledgeable video !!! Thankx Kevin and Dwayne !!
Appreciate the comment! Glad you liked the video. 👍
That is great knowledge from DK. exactly things I want and need to know. 2021 FLHP, RH slip-ons, K&N hi-flow, no tune and runs great. Thank you.
Thanks for the comment.
Enjoy your ride! 👍
thanks a lot for putting this info out there guys! 👍 really goo stuff! I really wanted to see where the M8 stock tune AFR's were running, but don't have "easy access" to a dyno. this is great news for a lot of people. I'm guessing that a higher flow air cleaner and slip-ons will potentially cool it down some too?
We have charts showing where the stock AFR tunes are running, you can seem them at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
The higher flow air cleaner and slip-ons will cool it a bit. Make sure to run an External Breather System on the air cleaner...that will do more to cool it down than the high flow of the air cleaner. Also, stop the reversion in the slip ons, that will do more to cool it down than the free flow aspect of the slip ons. There is a whole series on why and how to cool down an M8 at this link- czcams.com/play/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C.html
Awesome video, this is exactly what I was looking for. Looking forward to watching more videos.
Thank you. Glad you're finding the videos useful. 👍
Thanks for the advice guys. I have an aftermarket air cleaner and Freedom pipes. When l initially did it the bike was cold and it was revving unusually high. Gave it a about 10min and the bike automatically adjusted itself to the higher air intake and the free flowing exhaust system. My friends thought I was crazy. Thanks for making that clear about the M8 114. Now my friends are disappointed because they spent a small fortune getting tunes etc. Anyhow, love the channel and the straight forward information you guys give. It's refreshing to see. Cheers from Melbourne Australia!
Glad that you like the videos and have found them helpful. Thank you for your support and for commenting! MB
Your more than welcome. You guys are great. You put myths to bed and save people money. Thanks again guys. You are doing great work. I enjoy your videos very much. Regards Harry from Melbourne Australia!
Thank you! 👍😎👍 KP
Greatly appreciate your channel and this information
Thank you for the comment, glad you are finding the videos useful. 👍😎👍
Very informative. I have a 2020 FXST and threw a set of Dean Speed Slip-Ons on it. Been holding off on an air cleaner because I didn’t want to spend another 5-700 on a tuner. Thanks!
Glad it helped, thanks for the comment. You will be fine with a free flowing air cleaner. 👍
Due to the uncertainty of the m8 longevity on a 2020 RK I purchased the extended warranty for the first time. As a result there is a grey area of what will and won’t void warranty. You very informative and I appreciate your input. This kind of compares to adding a high air flow filter to today’s new car although they do have more intake sensors.
Yes. The nice thing is that you can add a great A/C to your M8 with no need for a tuner. If you need to take the bike in for warranty work it is a 15 minute job to put the OEM A/C back on it so there is no issues with the warranty.
Yes, if it is the HD extended warranty it would. There is an alternative, which will put some $ back in your pocket. HD Extended Warranty is an insurance policy. You can cancel it anytime, and get a refund of the time still left on the warranty. Then you can get a real extended warranty, that does not have so many restrictions on it. See this video for more info- czcams.com/video/p8U4XsHyBug/video.html
Thanks for the great info, who knew? I just added a Screaming Eagle air cleaner and a pair of V H short shots to my 2020 Softail Standard, did get the bike tuned as well, but if I saw your video, I may not have got the tune too.
A good tune never hurts. While no tune on 17-20 is needed to prevent damage, with a good tune they will run a little better.
Great info...too many shops want to rip off riders with false tuning stories.
There are some good tuning shops out there, but there are far more that I would not trust with my bike...and it can be difficult to know who is who.
Thanks for sharing; the "need to know" info!
Glad it was helpful!
Good stuff guys I'm glad I stumbled on this video
Thanks man, appreciate you watching our vids and commenting. 👍
I bought a 2021 114 streetbob. Put a k&n stock replacement filter. Love it.
👍
Awesome video guys!!!!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed. 👍
I just bought the screaming eagle high flow air filter for my 21 road glide special, I also added Vance & Hines torquer 450. I still have the stock tune and the bike has definitely picked up a few ponies.
Good deal!
You will pick up even more by adding and EBS and TTI's to that set up.
Videos on both below-
czcams.com/video/EfDeFZblMck/video.html
czcams.com/video/b2mN7lZ1CLw/video.html
Great video I have a 21 RK and want to do the same set up ( breather & slipons ) so I hope there's some info soon in regards to a tune is needed
We should have that info sometime this June or July.
Enjoyed this video a second time. The first, when I was converting to a high flo air box and filter. But now, you mentioned it several times in this video, but said it would be “a whole nother video”, and that is: How a hi-flo set of slip-ons, like SE Street Cannons, might change the story on needing to use a tuner, or not. Maybe you’ve already made that video discussion, and if so, I’ll keep looking thru your video list. Thanks for the good info. The forums are useful, but sometimes all over the place so it’s hard to get to the bottom of a topic such as this.
Thank you, glad you are liking the videos. The M8 is fine with free flowing exhaust and free flowing air cleaner. It is Not too lean with both, no damage will occur. However, it will run a bit stronger with an improved tune from a Power Vision or FP4. The SE Tuner will Not make it run any better.
Here are a couple of videos you may find useful/interesting-
czcams.com/video/h7EdjR8l8Ag/video.html
czcams.com/video/wQ6EzilYjiI/video.html
AHA! I am now gonna take the day to install my TBR turnout and S&S Stinger! Still some good riding up here in the northeast before the snow flies.
Have fun!
Couriuus what just a tune does to a stock twin cam. Like to see how your air intake and tune improved the twin cam.
Great info as always.
A good tune on a Twin Cam will get the AFR to 14.5 at cruising, and down into 12.xx at WOT. Which is where it should be, and where the M8 is from the factory. We have a ton of dyno charts showing the increase in HP & Torque when doing a DK A/C with a tune on Twin Cams. You can look at various A/C's on our site and most of them will have a chart or two, you can also see some at this Link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/differences-between-outlaw-hiflow-air-cleaner-systems-dk-faq-acs.htm
Good stuff !! Just got the new Softail StreetBob with 114 M8.. I added S&S Slashcut Slipons for some sound.. I figured the ECM would accommodate the muff change, but your video adds a layer of comfort..
Congrats on your new ride! 👍 Glad you're liking the vids.
I purchased my Street Bob 114 four weeks ago too. I have an appointment in 2 weeks for the Stage 1 SE exhaust and tuner. Should I cancel I'm wondering. Going to cost 1600 up here in Canada. Do you think the dealer would detect if I just put my own exhaust on it and cancel the Stage 1. I have no problem taking off a after market exhaust before I take it in for service. Just don't want to lose my 5 yr warranty. I know these would definitely check the ecu for sure. ..they are a##holes like that.
@@tricgix2949 Yeah, the ECU is supposed to be checked at every Harley Dealership whenever a bike goes in.
I can only tell you what is best for your bike, and what I would do.
I would run whatever exhaust I wanted, that performed well, along with an air cleaner that was free flowing and did not put hot, oily, oxygen depleted air back into the intake and combustion chambers.
Then, IF, I ever had to take it in for warranty work I would put the stock air cleaner and mufflers back on.
There is not going to be a very big gain at all from the SE exhaust and tuner, not worth the $ to me.
Here is a video you may find useful- czcams.com/video/GK5x3lcQvJU/video.html
@@tricgix2949 The bike had enough HP and Torque for me, I just wanted a bit of sound.. Put the S&S Slashcut Slipons with DB Killers removed. They arent obnoxious at al.. Just enough sound for me. Now about issues with warranty. My dealer doesnt have a concern with slip-ons. The ECM doesnt recognize that. It does recognize a tuner. It depends what your needs are.. For me, $330 mufflers was all I wanted.. Its plenty quick enough for my riding style.. My 03 Dyna with Stage 2 upgrades is my play bike. But the Streetbob is about as quick or ?
I love the PABST BLUE RIBBON BEER HAT DUDE, ROCK ON 🤘👍🤘👍
Will pass on your comment to Dwayne. Ride Free!
I agree with you 100%. Off of experience, I have 3 M-8s. I've added exhaust to all of them and they run great. No deceleration popping, or running issues. I need to look at your air cleaner for my FXDR.
Good to hear. Feel free to email or call with any questions. I think you'll like the benefits of one our our intake kits. 👍
what exhaust are you running on your fxdr i just got some short shots and been hearing you need a tuner for it
@@jestersasylem5622 Cobra 909 Speedsters. I have the baffles in, and there is a internal cross over in the exhaust. I would say, put them on and see how they run. Replace the exhaust gaskets at the cylinders to make sure the new pipes seal, as that will give you a false indication of a lean condition.
@@jestersasylem5622 and you don't need a tune unless you need more power.
@@DKCustomProducts for the breather?
Outstanding info. Thanks
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for the comment. 👍😎👍 KP
Thanks, this video answers my questions if I should tune my twin cam, and thanks for the numbers so I can tell the tuner what I want. What do you think about a canned tuner for a t c 88?
Depends on who did the canned tune. With an TC 88, if it is EFI, that is before HD settled on the ECM they are using now (unless you have a Dyna) so canned tunes are much fewer to be had. Here is a video you may find useful- czcams.com/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/video.html
This could of saved a lot of HD riders some bucks if these facts were known thanks , yes I installed a H-D high flow air cleaner and a tuner on our 2017 Tri Glide
This info has been on our website for over 3 years...sorry we just now put it out in video format. Link to written report with all the charts- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
Thanks
Awesome! No one else would answer this question!
Glad you like the video! We do what we can to give good accurate information to the Harley riders!
Thanks for commenting! 😎
@@DKCustomProducts I pulled out my baffles as well and it rides fine! I think the industry just wants to sell more Dyno's
Pulling out the baffles can certainly help with the back pressure!
Here is a video you may find interesting/Useful - czcams.com/video/pr6z00gL5Yg/video.html
Thanks for commenting! 👍
thanks you thanks you i have been waiting for this answer for so long
Glad you found it useful. Thanks for watching our videos.
@@DKCustomProducts hi sir i got softail standard 2020 right n my softail already come with V&H shortshot n now i want to change to highflow air cleaner so its all good without tuners right? just to clear it up thats all cuzs i went to HD today they said i need to tune. so i just very confusing
@@tntzone3298 Your 2020 Softail, with Short Shots and an Outlaw HiFlow air cleaner will not need a tune to be happy. Will it run better if you put some Thunder Torque Inserts in it? Yes. Will it run better if you do a Good tune (NOT a Harley dealership EPA tune)? Yes. Does it need a tune to keep from running too lean. NO. See dyno charts and AFR charts at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
@@DKCustomProducts thanks you very much
Great info, i would love to see a update video for the 22 models, I no they change the ecu in 21 🍻
Here is the update video for the 2021, it is leaner by a very small amount, but still well within a safe range.
We are working at getting a 22 on the dyno 2 weeks from now.
czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
I got a V&H fp4 that was recently given to me. I called Vance&Hines and asked them about putting it on my bike. They have their afr to be between 14.1 - 14.6. Going off your video. The tuner would make my bike run leaner than just putting the exhaust on and leaving the factory map in the ecm. I'm wanting to put a Bassani road rage 2-1 exhaust on my 2022 RGS.
Take a look at this video, specifically around the 4 minute mark- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
You will see that if the FP4 puts you between 14.1 and 14.6 that this is a bit richer (not leaner) that the factory map in the ecm. Is it necessary? No, would it be a little bit better? Yes.
Im having to change my tune to make it more rich. Ive done a LOT of changes chasing the heat problem on my 2020 RG. even stock it was HOT. after doing a stage one complete it helped a LITTLE bit. no cat headers, free flowing for the most part. but engine temp is in the 330s on the interstate. this is about 70 degrees higher than they say it should run. mechanic said mostly likely increasing the fuel just even a bit could drop it 30-40 degrees. which at least makes it ridable even if only 30 degrees are dropped. Im having to put my foot on the right side peg any time I am not actively using the break cause it'll literally blister my ankle through my boot.
I know exactly what you are talking about. 10's of thousands have experienced the same thing, including myself.
We have made an entire video series on the subject. We also have a written report on the subject. Links to both are below.
czcams.com/play/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C.html
www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
btw, going from the OEM tune on your M8 to a good tune will drop temps 10-15 degrees. Not sure if you can get a 30-40 degree drop going from the OEM tune to a different one...it is possible to get more than 15 with a tune that is super rich (richer than it should be).
Check out the links above to see how to cool it down and have it run right!
Excellent video and Thank you! So, how about adding slip ons (TAB or like that) to a '21 Heritage? Needs a tune or not?
Thank you, glad you enjoyed. We have a video on the 2021 at this link- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
You can use a free flowing air cleaner and free flowing exhaust with your OEM tune. No tune is needed to keep you from being so lean that you cause damage.
It will run a little bit stronger with a good tune, but it is NOT necessary to have a good running bike or to keep it from being too lean. The OEM M8 tune is much better than the OEM tune for Twin Cams or Sportster.
Great video and lots of information! But was wondering, I have s&s slash cuts with removable baffles. Would removing the baffles require a tune?
No! Just removing the baffles would not require a tune! Thanks for watching!
This video applies to all M8's from 2017-2020.
In 2021 HD changed the ECM. The video on 2021's is here- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
*THE PV-3B FOR 2021 M8'S IS NOW AVAILABLE.
ALL DETAILS CAN BE SEEN AT THIS LINK- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
I am dealing with this dilemma now. I just bought a 21 lowrider s and had no clue the bikes changed ECM. Now I'm having a hard time deciding on installing a full exhaust or having to wait until I can get a tuner. Additionally i can't even find any info on ayone who makes a tuner for this model year bike. All I know is I hate the sound of the exhaust from factory and was really looking forward to installing a S&S grand national 2-2.
@@sickinmyduck4017 Yeah, Harley has tried to lock out all aftermarket folks with this change. Dynojet has made good progress and are expecting to have the Power Vision working with the 2021 M8's sometime in June or July. Not much longer now.
Well do it.... test 2021 asap.... we need help asap guys... please.. git going on it.
@@phillipmckeownakalucifer.6689 I wish it were that easy. :)
@@DKCustomProducts please please please pleSe please. As the ol saying goes. Quote by david lee roth of van halen.... Look ill pay ya for it. Wtf....lol.
Great info!
Thanks for watching! 👍
Love the videos. What if you add some slip-ons(Vance and Hines) and a high flow air cleaner, with an external breather. Would you need a tune then?
You will not need to do a tune on an M8 after doing those mods.
Will it run a bit stronger if you do? Yes.
HOWEVER, you will not be too lean (like on a Twin Cam or Sportster) if you do those mods with the OEM tuen.
czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
So I can pretty much add the Arlen Ness cleaner I want to instal myself without having to tune it? That’s awesome!! I have the M8 on my FLHT. Already did the muffler upgrade.. now looking to get the cleaner done 🤙🏼
If you have a 2017-2020 you are good. Will it run better with a tuner, yes. Will you be doing any damage to the bike with the stock tune. Nope.
You may find this video interesting- czcams.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/video.html
Thanks for all the info. 21 road glide 107. Doing Air and two into one exhaust. How does that compare to just adding slip ons.
Thanks for watching. Please note that we have done not testing on the 2021's and this video only applies to 2017-2020 models. As noted in the pinned comment-
This video applies to all M8's from 2017-2020.
In 2021 HD changed the ECM and we have not yet done any testing on the 2021's to see if they also changed the AFR and/or how the ECM adjusts for different circumstances.
*THE PV-3B FOR 2021 M8'S IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR PRE-ORDER*. ALL DETAILS CAN BE SEEN AT THIS LINK- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
thanks guys,i had a dealership tell me the same thing ,
Glad to help! Thank you for commenting! MB
Thanks for the video just install ventilator air cleaner on my 2020 Tri Glide Ultra only difference I noticed was the sound going into the engine didn't notice any power gaines. So how then do I add to this TRIKE to be faster than a stock 103
I know this is not what you want to hear, but the Ventilator is not a good air cleaner. It feeds hot, oily, oxygen depleted air into the combustion chambers, which is counter-productive to producing power. Below is a video that goes over the four fundamentals of making power on our Harley's. czcams.com/video/GK5x3lcQvJU/video.html
One of your best info videos. Thanks guys. One question. I’m on a 2019 RGS 114. I have free flow exhaust and high flow A/C. If I de-cat, would I need to tune?
Thank you.
No, you do not need to tune it when doing the de-cat. Will it run better with a tune (with or without the cat), Yes. Does it need the tune to prevent damage to the bike. No.
@@DKCustomProducts Thank you
Great video guys, does this apply to having slip-ons? I have Tab Performance 4.5 Bam sticks with Zombie baffles on my stock 2020 Road glide and I have a Screamin Eagle Heavy Breather that I want to install will this combo be okay with no tuner? Thank you.
Thanks, glad you found the video useful. Yes, you can run the exhaust you have and a free flowing air cleaner without doing a tune. Will it run better with a tune? Yes. Do you need a tune to prevent damage? NO.
I will point out that your exhaust will perform better with some TTI's in them. See link below.
And you Will prevent damage to your engine (and have better performance) if you run and air cleaner with an EBS.
czcams.com/video/GK5x3lcQvJU/video.html
TTI's-
www.dkcustomproducts.com/thunder-torque-inserts-c57-244.htm
EBS you can use with your Heavy Breather-
www.dkcustomproducts.com/diy-external-breather-systems-368.htm
Thank u so much!
You're welcome! Glad you like the video! Thanks for commenting! MB
I have a 2019 Electra Glide Standard (M8 107). What kind of gain would I get if I debaffled the stock exhaust and added the thunder torque and the outlaw 587 air cleaner?
Every bike is different, but with those mods, typically you would see a 10-15% gain. We have seen as little as 9% and as much as 17%.
i have a 2021 EG standard and what im told is that there is no tune available fir the 2021 yet? no eta either, just finished my 500 mile break in but this is great info. 🙏🏽 new subscriber.
Yeah, Dynojet and V&H have been busy at work on the 2021 M8 ECM for months. Latest report is that Dynojet will have the Power Vision ready for those bikes sometime in June or July.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/power-vision-tuner-accessories-c120-241.htm
I hope something changes my only thing with the Dynojet is im in california and says it cant be shipped to california 😔
@@mymoa4 Maybe you have a friend in Arizona or Oregon that can receive it for you.
Thank you for all the info its been very helpful. I have a 2021 street glide with a 107. If i add a high flow intake, delete my catalytic and and slip ons i don’t have to get a tune?
That is correct.
Glad you are finding the videos useful. 👍
Wish I'd seen this before buying a powervision for my wife's '21 Tri-Glide. Ooh well, live and learn! Thanks for putting this info out guys!
Subscribe and Click the Notification bell, and you will know when we come out with new info.
That said, you will get a better tune and power with the PV on that 2021. :)
Great video... :-)
Glad you liked it!
Great Info! Saved me $400 you earned a sub
Awesome, thank you! 👍
Glad you found the video useful/interesting.
I have a 2022 Heritage 114.So I can change to a high flow air cleaner and Bassani 2 into 1 and the stock ECM will take care of it?What about decel pop on this set up? Thanks for the videos, great info
We have not tested the AFR on the 2022's, so we cannot say. We did test the 2021 and it is good. You can see that video here- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
Many folks say the 2022 is the same, but until we test it, we cannot say for sure.
Decel pop varies, bike to bike, and set up to set up.
Here is a video on decel pop, with some things you can do to get rid of it if you don't like it- czcams.com/video/I_djBYYYu28/video.html
Here is a video on the ECM that you may find interesting/useful- czcams.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/video.html
Just put a TBR 2 into 1 and Arlen Ness high flow air cleaner on my '21 107.... Am I safe without a tune? Great video btw guys!
You are safe. Here's a video on the '21.
czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
Hi there thanks for the great videos ! Im about to install no CAT dual headers with straight through fishtails but still using oem air filter & intake on my 2017 road king m8 , do you think my bike will show some lights after & need tuning ? Or not ? Many thanks
As long as you install your OEM O2 sensors in your new exhaust, you are good to go. No lights, no tuning needed.
Glad you are enjoying the videos. 👍😎👍
If you put some Thunder Torque Inserts in your new exhaust, I think you will be well pleased with the Performance Gain. Here is a link to some info on them- www.dkcustomproducts.com/harley-exhaust-myths-and-facts.htm
My 2017 CVO ran like shit until I had it tuned. Engine light for lean, engine light for rich. HD blaming it on 02 sensor!! Tune sorted it all out. Runs fantastic.
Yeah, the M8 engine in the CVO is not the standard Milwaukee-Eight engine talked about in this video. It starts out at 10.5:1 compression instead of the 10:1 compression, among other things.
Running lean, then rich....sounds like HD loaded the wrong tune in it from the factory.
Glad you got it running well now! 👍
@@DKCustomProducts the dealer loaded a map to make it run rich after the engine light indicated lean. Then the light came on for running rich and said it was an 02 sensor. I had to pay for the sensor and labour 2 months out of warranty. It was never the sensor!! Hence HD will never ever see my bike in their ahop again!!
@@philrobinson2327 I hear ya. Most dealerships do not have mechanics working anymore, just techs that lack the ability to use deductive reasoning. Mostly just parts replacers. Glad you got it running well.
Hello from France,
first of all a great job you do and thank you for answering all these questions ...
I have a Stretbob Fxbb with Cobra NH mufflers and just fitted a Touring M8 airbox, I would like to put a K&N filter inside and wonder if I would not have a problem with too much mixing skinny and if I still have to check my candles?
Sorry to ask this question because I do not speak English very well and I went through a translator ...
Eric
Thank you for the kind words. We appreciate it. Putting a K&N filter element in the touring air box on your Street Bob with the Cobra Mufflers will Not require you to do a change in tune. We do recommend you use an External Breather System with that air box and K&N filter element. You can see them at this link-
www.dkcustomproducts.com/breather-systems-c21.htm
@@DKCustomProducts Hello, I will take your advice and put in an external sniffer system even if my dealer thinks it is useless. I would still like if possible a system that is not too DIY. Keep going on your videos, they are really great, easy to understand and it helps us a lot.
Eric
@@ericolivier9740 Give Dwayne a call or email, pretty sure he can direct you to one of our systems that is not a DIY.
662-420-4891 Support@DKCustomProducts.com
@@DKCustomProducts Je vais envoyer un mail car c'est plus facile pour traduire. Vous distribuez vos produits vers la France ou avez vous un distributeur pour me fournir dans mon pays ?
Merci.
Hi, great video. Is there an AFR chart available with both an high air flow air cleaner and a performance exhaust? In the video you make it clear that the combinaison of the 2 still don't require a tuner... but a chart would be cool. Thanks.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
You may find some more useful info in the report at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
@@DKCustomProducts many thanks! I had a look and couldn't find an AFR test for the M8 with stock tune, High flow air cleaner and performance exhaust (full exhaust system). I am trying to figure out if in this configuration (Two brothers racing 2 in 1 + S&S teardrop), a tuning is a must or not.... would be great to have your take on it. Many thanks.
@@gwhain3408 You do not need a tune with the configuration you listed. It will run fine and no damage will occur. However, it Will run better with a good tune. czcams.com/video/qVEhzU0sMYE/video.html
I have a 19 road glide 114.. bought used and had stock headers with Khromewerks 4.5 mufflers. No inserts. I bought a Khromewerks "hidaway" header, basically a header that follows the stock lines with stock heat shields re attached. I installed the "torque' inserts to make up for the missing cat (reverb) and fired it up. I didn't know that the stock ECM will give a margin of read and adjust. It had a screaming eagle torque cam installed with a Screaming eagle tuner flash. Cooled it off. Dont think Im gonna ruin my bike.
You should be good! 👍
Humming along.
I watched the video very informative. So slip ons and air cleaner are ok to be ran without tune. How about if you put a V&H pro pipe and A/C?
Glad it was useful to you. 👍
If you have an M8, yes you can run the pro pipe and an air cleaner with no change to the stock tune and not be running too lean. Of course, as mentioned in the video, and shown at the link below, it will run even better (stronger) with a good tune (not a Harley tune), but it is not necessary like on the Twin Cams.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
@@DKCustomProducts thanks cams are next but until then at least wanted to make mods. I appreciate the info
@@joesainato8051 With a Cam the M8 will need a proper tuner. But doing a true performance Stage I may satisfy your desire for more power, if not, then having a great Stage I is the foundation for you getting everything you can out of a Stage II.
@@DKCustomProducts Thanks. I know a cam requires tuning. I wish a stage 1 would satisfy my power needs that would of saved me a lot of money over the years. But I guess that’s the fun of it
Great info. I have a 2020 Road Glide with Stage 1 Screamin Eagle Tuner, Intake and Cobra Neighbor haters. I want to switch to megaphone slip ons but I have read that megaphones cause dangerously lean running. Is there any truth to that?
Thanks, glad you found it useful. On your M8 the megaphone slip-ons will NOT make it run dangerously lean. You have a tuner and you can make it run at exactly the same AFR you are at now, regardless of what pipes you use. I would recommend using TTI's on the Megaphone or CNH slip-ons (see link below)...they will reduce reversion, deepen the tone a bit, and give you more low and mid range torque.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/thunder-torque-inserts-c57.htm
I bought a 2021 street bob with the 114 recently at my local dealership. It only had 200 miles on it.... Basically new. The bike came with s and s slip ons added and a harley pro tuner. They said it had been tuned already. It had the stock high flow air filter already on it. I was under the impression you had to ride the bike a bit with the tuner on board to get a correct map reading for the bike? Upon watching your video you said that a tune isn't needed even in you add the slip on exhaust (which deletes the cats) and the high flow air filter? I was thinking about adding an after market extreme air filter as well. Would I have to have it tuned if I do that? I do have the harley tuner that came with it to keep my warranty. It seems that it isn't needed tho? Thanks for any advice! Great informative videos. I hit that subscribe button!
Hi Jacob, thanks for subscribing!
This video, as noted in the description and pinned comments, is for 2017-2020 M8's. It does Not apply to 2021 M8's like yours.
We have not done all the testing on the 2021's yet, we will have all the data on them soon. So we cannot say for sure if they do or do not need a tuner. When we have the data we will put it in here, and will also be doing new videos.
Did you guys do a video on about the afr, with the stock exhaust vs slip on's?
With Slip-ons the AFR stays the same. The M8 ECM does a good job of adjusting to them. The Twin Cams are an entirely different story.
Here is a video you may find useful- czcams.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/video.html
And here is a video on a 21- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
We also had a 22 on a Dyno just a month or so ago. Put a High Flow Air Cleaner, catless header, and slip-ons on it and it was good at OEM tune. Have not done a video on it yet.
All the M8's will run a little better with a great tune, but none of them are in the dangerous lean area with free flowing A/C and/or exhaust.
Here's a link to a Report, with charts, that you may find interesting-
www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
Hi, does anybody have an experience with Two Brothers Racing 2 in 1 + S&S teardrop air cleaner combo? Any noticeable increased heat? The video suggests the tuner is not a must (although it would optimize the tuning). Great video DK Custom!
Thank you. 👍
Im running a high flow K&N air filter, with Cobra neighbor hater slip ons, on my 2020 softail standard. NO TUNE, and my bike runs like a monster. I hit a top speed of 120mph.
Great to hear you're enjoying your ride!
good info
Thank you! 👍😎👍
What about an air cleaner and new pipes? I just ordered a Vance and Hines air cleaner and short shot pipes! Not looking for more power just better sound
No need for a tune when adding free flowing intake and exhaust to a 2017-2023 M8. Time will tell if the same holds true for 2024 and later.
Here is a written report, with more charts showing that these bikes are Not too lean, even with a Stage I- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
What’s your opinion on doing both slip ons and a free flowing air cleaner, most will always do both not just a air cleaner??
No tune needed when adding a Stage I Air Cleaner and/or Open Exhaust.
💥💥 SEE VIDEO on the 2021 M8's Here- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
I have a 2018 street glide special I’m fixing to add cobra head pipes with a Vansen Hines VO 2 air intake and I’m going to be putting aftermarket slip on’s as well because I’m getting rid of the catalytic converter with the stock pipes. Wouldn’t I need to do a tune in order to correct that or with the ECM do that for me without me, having to put on a fuel pack three.
Will it run better if you tune it after doing your list of things? Yes. Will it be dangerously lean if you run the OEM tune? No.
Here is a video that may be helpful/interesting to you- czcams.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/video.html
With your VO 2 intake and aftermarket slip-ons, you would be well served to use an External Breather System and some Thunder Torque Inserts™, otherwise whatever tune you use (OEM or aftermarket) will eventually not match the compression ratio, and the open pipes will rob power due to reversion.
Video on EBS- czcams.com/video/EfDeFZblMck/video.html
Video on Reversion- czcams.com/video/b2mN7lZ1CLw/video.html
As always, Great video, I have a 2023 Road King Special with SE Street Cannon slip ons, the dealer said take out the DB killers at the end of the slip ons which they did and I notice quite a lot of loss of low end torque.
I’m going to put in a K&N filter into the already high flow air cleaner to make it a stage 1
Will a good tune help with getting back the low end torque or do I need to reinstall the db killers?
I much prefer the sound with the db killers removed but don’t want to lose that much torque.
Thanks for your help!
The only power loss you have is due to reversion at the end of the pipe. The TTI's were created to eliminate reversion and bring back that low-mid range torque loss.
You can see the TTI's at this link - www.dkcustomproducts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=thunder+torque
You can see a full written report on exhaust at this link that you may find interresting/useful - www.dkcustomproducts.com/harley-exhaust-myths-and-facts.htm
Of course you can get a tune for even better performance, but with the TTI's you may not even feel the need to get a tune.
Please feel free to contact us with any questions;
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Thank you for commenting! MB
@@DKCustomProducts thanks for the quick response. I’ve ordered a pair of the 258s to fit in my 4.5 SE Street Cannons.
I’m in the UK so hopefully they work out ok! Doubled the price with the postage but if it works it a good investment.
Thanks again!
A tune may not be "required" but it definitely helps with cooling of the engine which in turn adds to its longevity. Due to the EPA and the like, bikes out of the factory run in open-loop mode during idle and lower RPM which is a problem.
On the 2017-2020 M8's they will run a little better with a good tune. Heat reduction is small...in the 3-5 degree range.
The M8 is NOT lean from the factory like the Twin Cam and Sporty engines.
Low RPM, low load is Closed Loop, not open loop. Here is a video that goes over that-
czcams.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/video.html
@@DKCustomProducts Trying to say is Harley has no choice but to attempt to target fuel mix at 14.7 to 1. Its the law. To do this, Harley built fuel tables and then use a narrow band O2 sensor to maintain the fuel trim (Closed Loop). This is only available during idle and light load "cruise" conditions. The rest of the time the ecm just uses the appropriate setting from the fuel tables (Open Loop). In open loop the O2 sensor has no function. And this is because of the limitations of narrow band sensors. They can only function at fuel settings of 14.3:1 to 15:1 to one or there abouts. In closed loop the ecm trims the fuel based on O2 input. In open loop the ecm uses the stored fuel tables (maps).
OK so how does the ecm know when its in closed loop or open loop? If 14.6 is the entry in the look up table for the applicable cell, it tries to operate in closed loop. This is call the Air Fuel Ratio Switch. And its the reason why trying to trick the ecm with resistors in the O2 sensor circuit don't always work well.
@@DKCustomProducts 3-5 degrees over the course of +75,000 miles... I'll take it coupled with other additions (tank lift, Mighty Mite, etc.).
@@militaryminedid2011 True that, every little bit helps, and a lot of little things add up to big benefits!
@@militaryminedid2011 Yes, most of what you said is in the video... czcams.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/video.html
Talked to Service at the dealer yesterday (just bought a bike a month ago) and the tech showed me all the Harley air cleaners in their catalogue AND he pointed out the notations next to each and every air cleaner that said: "All models require ECM Calibration with Screamin' Eagle Pro Tuner for proper installation". I told him I was thinking of adding an aftermarket Air Cleaner that wasn't Screamin" Eagle, and he said the notation still applies, with the additional note that IF I change the air cleaner it will make the engine run lean and "That" would cause damage voiding the warranty. I then asked him if the ECM would adjust without a tuner and he said "NO!".
I would love to have someone convince the dealer to let me alter the air flow without telling me that I would void the warranty.
A few things to be aware of:
1. This video only applies up to model year 2020. We have not tested the 2021 to see what the calibration is on it.
2. Unfortunately, most dealership employees don't know a whole lot about the bikes they sell, sell parts for and service. It is a sad situation.
3. On 2017-2020 bikes you can see that the ECM DOES adjust by looking at the AFR in the charts shown in the link below. They show that the AFR is in a good range with the stock air cleaner and with an aftermarket HiFlow Air cleaner and Will NOT damage the engine.
LINK- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
So I have a 2021 Street bob. And I see that it can clearly be ran with a stock tune and upgraded air cleaner. Now what about a full exhaust system (Rinehart 2 to 1) with stock air cleaner? And if I were to add an aftermarket next. Where would my next step be if I needed a tune? Thanks for the info guys! Awesome video!
This video is about 2017-2020's. We just recorded a video yesterday (it will be a couple of weeks before it is published) that specifically addresses the 2021's.
The 2021's are just a little bit leaner than the earlier M8's, but you can still run a free flowing air cleaner and exhaust with the stock tune. It will not damage the engine.
Will it run better with a tune? Yes. But no harm is being done to the engine with the stock tune.
If you did want to tune the bike, you can use the PV that is seen at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
It will come with a tune for your set up.
Glad you found this video useful.
Here are links to a couple of videos you may find useful on the subject.
czcams.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/video.html
czcams.com/video/isBHK-Jy7Wk/video.html
@@DKCustomProducts you’re awesome guys! Can’t wait for the video to release. Glad to hear I could run it still. I wanna make sure everything is good for the bike. Would it be best to run a PV or could I try the Fuel Pack? Hard thing is I live in California. Can’t ship out here 👎🏼
@@jeffreystanley4735 Cool, glad you found the info useful.
The FP3 (FuelPak) is still not released for the 2021+ models. So the PV is what to run.
Yeah, can't ship EFI parts to Cali. We do have quite a few Cali Customers that have friends in NV & AZ.
Hey fellas! I have a 2020 Softail Deluxe and I'm adding TAB performance 2.5 baffle slip on's and a Screaming eagle ventilator air cleaner. So you are saying I don't need to get the bike tuned when I had these options? Thanks for the help guys!
You do not "need" to tune it. Those additions will not make the bike run too lean, like it would on a Twin Cam. Will it run better with a good tune? Yes. Will it run better if you use an External Breather System? Yes. Will it run better if you use some TTI's in the exhaust? Yes. But you will not be creating in more wear that it already gets from being stock.
I have the FXLRS as you know comes with the bigger air cleaner but I bought some V&H radial sweepers and they said “no need for a A/c” which I was cool with but told me I need to tune with their screaming eagle, so basically I was swindled it would of ran fine without the tune?
The M8 will run better with a tune. But no damage is being done to the engine if it is not tuned.
I added air cleaner. Harley brand. Tourque insert. No tune. Runs great. 2019 FLHT. No problem of any kind. Definitely can tell the difference. Your right, everyone else is wrong. Also use DK oil filter, wire screen. Also 1.5 tank lift.
Good to hear. Appreciate the business. Check out the following links on how to get even more out of your existing air cleaner- www.dkcustomproducts.com/overview-of-external-breather-systems-ebs.htm and a video version of the report here - czcams.com/video/HChkevbh1Xs/video.html
Just to make sure I understand, I bought your transformer and 606 hi-flo. I do not need to tune after install, until I get my new exhaust.
That is correct on M8's. Even when you add your exhaust you will still be safe with the OEM tune.
Not true on Twin Cams.
Thank you for your business, we appreciate it. 👍
Huh!
Well that's annoying.
I was told I needed a tuner, because I was placing a stage one, Rhinehart slip on, and an extreme flow airfilter. Well that's a let down.
Ok, Question: do you need a tuner for a stage 2??
Seeing as the ECM compensates????
Good video. 👍
You will need a full fledged tuner for a Stage II, lots of things change when you change the cam that the OEM tune/ECM can't compensate for.
@@DKCustomProducts thank you for that, any recommendations on a tuner??
I've heard about the Maximus? Any good?
@@aaroncox3340 The best tuner is the Power Vision, it can be seen at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
Hi love your videos. I have a 2017 Harley Davidson Ultra limited M8, I bought Cobra slip-ons and also Arlen Ness Chrome Finish Stage I Big Sucker Kit with Standard Filter 18-458. everyone is telling me I must do a Dyno Tune. I don't have enough experience to really know if I have to do a Dyno Tune just because I added slip-on and Higher flow air filter. Can you help me with this thank you!
If you have a free flowing exhaust and upgrade your air cleaner on an M8, you do not need a tune. The bike of course will run even better if you have a tune but it is not something you have to do! Glad you found the video informative! Thanks for watching!
18 Roadglide. STAGE 4 KIT .SCREAMING Eagle Tuner..I took the Catalytic Converter OUT.Do I need to Dyno Or Retune it ???
My stock 2020 107ci was about 14.9 afr while cruising, and would never drop below 14.5 unless it was in the enrichment cycle under very heavy throttle. Not as lean as the TC's, but that is still way too lean even for a liquid cooled engine, much less our air/oil cooled engibes.
Yes, as shown in the chart linked below, the AFR is not quite ideal, there is a little room for improvement, BUT it is not dangerously lean like on the TC's and EFI Sportys.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/media/wysiwyg/Stock_AC_with_Stock_Improved_Tune_PV.jpg
Hello. Is it advisable to put a high flow air filter ?. I have a 2018 UL with Cobra slip on. I'm not looking to run, I'm interested in relieving the engine as much as possible. Thanks!
Your bike will run stronger and cooler if you use a high flow air cleaner with an External Breather System. It will last longer too because it is not feeding that hot oily air into the combustion chambers.
Any of the 587, 606 or 828 for the M8 at the following link will work.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/air-cleaner-intake-c10.htm
According to the HD parts folks, adding a Screamin' Eagle High-Flow Air Cleaner Kit -Wedge (Part Number: 29400246A) requires a tuner. Total BS then? Thanks. Love the videos !!
Correct, they either don't know better, or are just trying to sell more parts than needed.
Below is a Report LINK, with AFR charts, showing the tune is not too lean, even with open intake and exhaust- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
On top of that, the SE tuner is not really a good choice for a tuner, IF one needed a tuner. Here's a video on that subject- czcams.com/video/wQ6EzilYjiI/video.html
Any updates on 21 models?
I have a 21 FXSB Sport Glide, and have a Arlen Ness Monster and TB 2in1 I wanna put on, but not sure if I should wait til I get my new PvDynoJet. Should I wait before wrenching on the upgrades?
I apologize, we just don't know. It won't be long.
*THE PV-3B FOR 2021 M8'S IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR PRE-ORDER*. ALL DETAILS CAN BE SEEN AT THIS LINK- www.dkcustomproducts.com/dynojet-power-vision-flash-tuner-w-auto-tune-dk-pv-cmp-pkg.htm
I own a ‘19 FLTRU 114ci (stock). So I’ve been running slip-Ons for 6 months and ran with no issues. I just installed an RSD A/C and I started it up and from the gate the ecu was confused and kept the idle throttle higher than normal and popping occurs. Went around the block and it back fired and runs leaner. Still continued to pop as well. Slip-ons can run without tuner but don’t add aftermarket A/c without tuner.
I think something else must be going on with your bike. We have run many 114's, including 2019's with free flowing air cleaner and free flowing exhaust with the OEM tune, and not only did they run well, but they also had good AFR.
Here's another video showing this on a 2021- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
And here is a report with dyno charts at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
You have a leak with your new AC not installed properly. Check your gaskets ect. What you described is Air Cleaner install issue.
@@Luckky-13 Very likely, could also be an exhaust leak. Thanks for the add.
How are you getting the sniffer up to the sensors with stock pipes? I did not see anything but an air cleaner mentioned.
The first one we did was with stock exhaust with the plug popped out and the cat removed. After that we have drilled and put sensors in right near the OEM sensors to verify all that info. Here is a link to a written report you may find interesting. www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
Here is a link to another video on a later model year where we drilled and tapped for the sensors- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
Thanks for the question! 👍😎👍KP
Any testing done on the '21 M8s since they had an ECM change?
Nope. Lots of experience with the engines/ECM up thru the 2020's. Nothing engine/ECM on the 2021's yet.
The butt dyno on my '20 Heritage Classic 114 told me I lost performance throughout the RPM range when adding free flow V&H Eliminator 300 mufflers without a tuner. Granted, I didn't change the stock air cleaner, but I'm led to believe the stock air cleaner is already sufficient for air flow. I had to install the quiet baffles in order to get back the performance I had with the stock mufflers. Comments?
Thunder torque inserts, worked wonders for my 107
Yes, what you experiences is very common and is to be expected. You did not lose power because of the tune. You lost power because you changed the mufflers to ones that increased the reversion which robs power. There is a video on this subject here- czcams.com/video/nB0XDQVjH9Y/video.html
And another video here- czcams.com/video/g2VB0nBFhTQ/video.html
And a written report here- www.dkcustomproducts.com/harley-exhaust-myths-and-facts.htm
DKCustomProducts Exactly. In fact, when I first saw what the V&H quiet baffles looked like, they reminded me of your Thunder Torque Inserts and how they eliminate exhaust reversion.
Ok i got a 2020 breakout so you are saying i can go with a SE extreme AC and a super trapped bootlegger exhaust and do not need a tune till the next step of put a cam.
That is correct. Will it run better if you do a tune? Yes. Will you damage it from running the factory tune with those components. Nope...it is not too lean...especially with that air cleaner that is shooting hot oily air into the intake.
Currently I have a 2020 Road Glide with an M8. I have S&S MK45 slip ons, stock head pipes, stock air cleaner. Looking to change the air cleaner to an S&S stealth and put on S&S Power Tune dual head pipes.
Would I need a tuner for that?
You will not need a tuner. Will it run better with a tuner? Yes. However, you will not be damaging it without one.
I would Highly recommend getting an air cleaner with an External Breather System, OR, putting an EBS on the S&S Stealth. Check out this video-
czcams.com/video/EfDeFZblMck/video.html
Hey guys! I've got a 2020 Low Rider S which I have installed the V&H Pro Pipe with race/comp baffle (no back pressure at all) and replaced the stock air filter element for the K&N one. I have used Auto tune on the base map they sent me from Fuel Moto and the bike is very thirsty. Comparing the stock tune with the Fuel Moto tune in WinPV shows that the FM tune is much more rich in fuel delivery. The end cap on the Pro Pipe is not black from exhausts, it has this "oil shimmer" look to it like it's a lot of unburnt fuel on the chrome.
My thoughts are leaning towards flashing the stock tune back and then auto tune it a couple of times to trim it a bit. Your opinion on this? Btw, great information and products!
Thank you for the kind words about the vids and our parts.
That is great that you have gotten rid of the restriction in your exhaust....but even the Pro-Pipe has reversion issues. I would put a Thunder Torque Insert™ in there (link below). That will reduce the reversion (which is preventing a full fresh charge in the combustion chambers...see video below). which may be all that is needed to clean up your combustion cycle. You will definitely get a nice bump in low and mid range power.
If it is still running rich, yes, put the stock tune back in and run some autotunes, riding how you normally ride.
Video link- czcams.com/video/pr6z00gL5Yg/video.html
TTI Link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/thunder-torque-inserts-c57-241.htm
@@DKCustomProducts thank you for the reply! I actually used TTIs on my last bike, they're great. I might order a 258 🤘
Great video!!! I have a 2020 tri glide and I ordered a Screaming Eagle performance air cleaner kit #29400355 and plan on adding your catch can external breather kit. The HD installation instructions state "You must recalibrate the ECM when installing this kit. Failure to properly recalibrate the ECM can result in severe engine damage. (00399b)" Are you saying this is not the case? Also, are you saying I could put on aftermarket pipes in addition to the air cleaner upgrade and not need a tune?
Yes, you can have a free flowing intake and free flowing exhaust with no need to tune on a 2020 Tri Glide. That is NOT true on Twin Cams and Sportsters, and it seems like HD just uses the same wording for those in the M8 manuals.
For the 2020 heritage 114, I want to remove the the cats out of my S&S slip ons. Harley said I don't need a tune with a 50 state legal slip on exhaust with stock air cleaner. But they wouldn't answer the question with the cats out of the mufflers. I don't want to tune as it voids the warranty. Also I'm looking to get 100,000 miles out of the bike at about 10k per year. I'm just looking for a better sound and longevity of the motor. The stock power is fine for me.
You do not need a tune to run safely, even if you remove the cats. Will it run better with a good tune? Yes, but it will not run bad without one, nor will you be causing any accelerated wear.
You will not void the warranty by removing the cats from the S&S slip ons.
You will need to use TTI's (if you are not already) with those slip-ons for more power, cooler running, and a bit better MPG. Here is a video explaining why- czcams.com/video/pr6z00gL5Yg/video.html
Just purchased a 2023 street glide M8 107 and got the Vance and hinds big radius and a open flow k&n intake is it okay to run the bike without a tune for a while or will it mess up the motor?
You can go with a free flowing intake and exhaust and still not be too lean on your 2023 SG. Here is a video relevant to your year bike- czcams.com/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/video.html
Here is another video, about how the ECM adjusts, that you may find useful/interesting- czcams.com/video/0vbTkRvFa80/video.html