Decades of Adobe's Technical Debt (and our Next Software) | CorridorCast
Vložit
- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- CONSIDER SUBSCRIBING ► bit.ly/corridor_cast_subscribe
Watch Another Episode ► • After Effects needs to...
This Episode ►
Wren joins the conversation to further explain his frustrations with Adobe and discusses what they could do better, what software we'll be moving on to, and why.
FOLLOW ►
Instagram: bit.ly/_Corridor_Instagram
Sub-Reddit: bit.ly/_Corridor_Sub-Reddit
SUPPORT ►
Join Our Website: bit.ly/Crew_Membership
Buy Merch: bit.ly/Corridor_Store
OUR GEAR, SOFTWARE & PARTNERS ►
Our Go-To Gear: bhpho.to/3r0wEnt
Puget Systems Computers: bit.ly/PC_Puget_Workstations
ActionVFX: bit.ly/TheBest_ActionVFX
Lighting by Aputure: bit.ly/CORRIDOR_LIGHTS
Cinema4D: bit.ly/Try_Cinema4D
Insydium: bit.ly/Insydium_Plugins
Octane Render by OTOY: bit.ly/Octane_Wrender
Boris FX - Mocha, Sapphire & Continuum: bit.ly/2Y0XLUX
Motion Captured with Xsens Suit: bit.ly/Xsens_MoCap_Suit
Reallusion: corridor.video/Reallusion_3Ds...
Unreal MegaGrant: bit.ly/Unreal_MegaGrant
CHAPTERS;
0:00 - Intro
1:14 - Wren's Adobe Rant
8:25 - Where we started with VFX
13:00 - Why we're choosing Davinci Resolve
18:48 - The People Agree
25:50 - Story Time with Wren
32:42 - Technical Debt
42:28 - Adjust the Mindset
48:07 - Programs we suggest to get started
58:00 - How to Fix Adobe
“Some problems exist for so long that you can’t see them anymore.”
What a bar from Niko
Sometimes software companies forget: speed and stability are features too.
They dont. They choose to invest money into something else to keep up with the growing industry.
@@udeapi2185 Adobe invests in consolidation and not much else. And they're not keeping up with anybody, only slowly losing market share to competitors that are, guess what, faster and more stable. Prime example is this video; another is Flash, which lost to HTML5 and JS.
Guess what the richest company on Earth, Apple did? They invested billions in a new chip architecture just for better performance.
Google became the top search engine, and Chrome the top browser, because they invested in being the fastest.
Linux and OSes built on it hold the majority of the server OS market, in large part because they're the fastest and most stable.
Other features are good too, but users don't give a damn in the long run if basic reliability is neglected and they lose work.
Don't talk out of your ass.
Used to work for Adobe, was an open secret that they made their programs easy to pirate so that kids could learn the software and then hopefully grow up, start working in the industry and being able to start paying out of convenience. Get everyone hooked on the software kinda.
Wow I was one of those kids 🤣.
Yea it was a great strategy because then you could sell it for a lot of money to studios that need the license.
Then Adobe got greedy and launched creative cloud. It was hilarious how they tried to pretend that creative cloud was making adobe products affordable to the everyman. No they were just trying to squeeze out as much money as possible by switching to a subscription cycle so they could be lazy. Pre-creative cloud Adobe was pressured to constantly be improving their software so people would buy the new version. Now they don’t give a fuck and it just gets bloated and the users don’t have a choice to stick with an old version anymore.
@@LetTheWritersWrite So were most of us employees
Not surprised. Same reason Microsoft is pushing Office 365, and Apple is pushing iPads, into primary schools nowadays: Get them locked into the ecosystem as early as possible.
THAT HAPPENED TO ME. I now have 5 years non professional experience in Ps.
There's no gritting teeth to be had by Adobe. They're swimming in money, they have the resources and they owe their customers a working, powerful tool. I jumped ship from Pro Tools to Reaper for the same reason, it does the same thing faster, cheaper and it's more stable AND more open. Ditch the abusive partner Wren !
REAPER is so robust it's awesome.
I used Reaper before I my admission to Music Technology and started getting actual training in using Pro Tools in a proper studio. I cannot belive that it is considered "industry standard". It is among the worst programs I've ever used.
Heeyyy lol
REAPER GANG!
Similar path for me. I‘ve also used Resolve to mix a show. Reaper is the audio superstar. Resolve is stable enough to be a great tool for video folks. It’s audio portion is on a good path imho. One of the edges Reaper has over Protools and Resolve is cost. Audition is hardly on the map for post production. I used to LOVE using After Effects. I wouldn‘t consider it these days in the state it‘s in.
My old stem teacher had a saying I try to live by, " 15 minutes before will save you 15 hours after, so do it right the first time." I wish we had more people who thought that way
It’s one thing to complain about shitty free software, it’s another when the shitty software is some of the most expensive on your computer. I’ve also started the switch to Davinci. Considering there’s no way Adobe cares enough to rewrite code, it’s goodbye forever.
A UX Director at Adobe told me that they literally had a rule that their design teams cannot change anything. They are only allowed to add to the mess. This is the reason you find related things in completely different places.
Best photoshop replacement I found (and switched to in a heart-beat) was Affinity Photo and Designer (replacing Photoshop/Illustrator respectively).
Compatible with my old PSD's and PS Brushes, no monthly fee and cheap.. so I never looked back.
Yep moved over to that suite a year or two ago. After a small time to adjust my workflow is just at the same pace as before.
I tryed Designer but missed a lot of features I consider essencials, like the Apearence tab.
Is there some thing like it today in Designer?
Half price on black fridays. Also designer and publisher kick adobes efforts all over the park.
I love that all files work interchangebly so I often start in photo and move to designer when I create a bunch of different graphics and need good export workflow. Affinity is great, super fast, super stable but some of their UI and UX ideas are sooo stupid. fact that I still cant just slide on eye icon to show and hide multiple layers is just wrong, changing shortcuts its atrociouse compared to 3D software, no focus mode where everything will turn black, UI will hide and only workspace is left, coping adjustment layer is weird as software adjust values on its own - for eg glow, it will lower the value on its own if object have different size... JUST GIVE ME CONTROL, I WANT TO DO IT, U CANT KNOW WHAT I WORK, WHEN U ARE IN DIFFERENT COUNTRY NOT KNOWING WHO IAM
@@silver7788 I have to say it…it’s not the software, you have multi personalities that are changing thing and u don’t realize it. Become ONE!!!
As someone with hundreds of music videis on my channel, I too am convinced it is time to leave Adobe. I'm pledging to switch to Resolve by end of year. Bye Adobe!
We all know Adobe will just buy their competitors eventually though.
Not really… There will *always* be at least one competitor just going at it out of spite and/or sheer passion, and once they start smelling blood and seeing an opportunity, they might just start eating Adobe's lunch.
@@Mainyehc One can pray for such things
At this point Wren should just switch to resolve/fusion because not only people around him have switched but also, it's detrimental to your artist career to be loyal with one software just because you are used to it. You should never limit your creativity because you are used to one software, learning more tools will not only make you more flexible but also let you create things that were previously painful/impossible, I mean remember what you said in the switching to C4D video? czcams.com/video/vKZBtE289Qs/video.html. If making art/vfx is your main priority then you should use the best tool for the job and currently any node based software will be better than after effects for vfx because (replying to Niko) yes, after effects' layer based approach is similar to the old school film layering but the problem is we aren't working with old schools films anymore and that's why working with layers is a bottleneck because it super painful to work with modern stuff and techniques ( like multipass compositing and working with 3d scene etc.) with the old-school layer-based approach, nodes are basically visual scripting so it's much easier for the computer to understand so it's much easier to do complex stuffs with nodes without workarounds like precomping. I think the reason you might be having problems with switching from AE is because its layer based and all the other ones are node based, and I think there's a very good reason why all the industry standard compositors have always been node based. Flame, Shake, Fusion, Nuke. Houdini always has been node based and it's getting adopted in the industry like crazy and other 3D softwares are also becoming node-based like Blender, Maya with Bifrost etc. Once you start using it, you'll see the reasons why you wouldn't have problems like what you had in the bosstown video. And, it's much more future proof to learn a node-based software than a layer-based software because they all work the same, so if you learn fusion, you'd be able to learn and use Nuke in no time and so on, the nodal language is all same in all the other softwares, so learning Blender geo nodes will make it easier to learn Houdini in no time. It's the very reason why in house tools in VFX studios are mostly node-based, like the grooming tools from Sony Imageworks. Not only nodes are much superior workflow since you can go back at any stage and change things without hunting down specific things or affecting other things, it's much easier for artists to learn the new node-based tool since they are used to other node based softwares previously.
For those interested in Fusion, Tim van Helsdingen's "Compositing for 3D Artists" is my favorite tutorial to learn what you need for 3D work
I just looked some of his videos its nice...
thank you
1:03:43 "I will make a short film, with visual effects, without touching a single adobe product" that sounds like a great idea for a video, even for the thumbnail you can't use photoshop XD (of course wren has to do it since he hasn't started working on alternative software yet)
Affinity Photo replaces Photoshop easy. Just Lightroom doesn't really have a replacement
I had a similar breaking point and sent a massive thread to some adobe techs about two months ago. Always just leads to forum responses telling you to change a million different things. No, just fix the program cmon adobe.
I feel for you Wren.
Had a customer buy a Workstation with 2TB of memory and 2 280W CPUs just for a project that continued to barf out when loading. Still only works 3/5 times it should **sad-panda-face** :/
Yeah the Adobe forms are awful. Most of the "solutions" are "you aren't meant to use the program like that" or recommending a fresh install. All with a condescending tone.
I literally just finished the last episode and then got a notification from the corridor app that you guys brought Wren in to continue the conversation! 2 hours of Adobe slander and I'm all here for it! (As I edit in lightroom...)
I like Lightroom classic, illustrator, and photoshop. Everything else is horrible.
try capture one, its great
lmaoooo I resonated with “As I edit in lightroom…” so much 😂
30:54 this is the absolute crux of the entire issue. Thank you for shaking me loose of this trance I’ve been in for 10 years where I accepted these problems as normal.
Edited with Hitfilm for 3 years, pretty damn good! never experienced crashes or corrupted files and its more elaborate than one might think. Made all my videos with it
After Effects is also huge and industry standard for motion graphics, so it can't really be ditched. I think it needs to have a HUGE performance upgrade, though. It's so insane that 10 shape layers in a 4k comp starts making it feel sluggish
I only say this because you guys keep mentioning vfx/compositing
This is where my mind was at too. Agreed with their points, but when it comes to motion graphics AE still seems easily the best tool for me atm
Agreed! I can see how there are alternatives for compositing and vfx, but I haven't seen a viable option for stuff like logo animation, 2D explainers etc. Blender has some features, but it's not made for 2D.
The first company to create an efficient and affordable alternative to After Effects (or a guide for switching to nodes tailored for After Effects users) will be in for a big paycheck.
49:05 All collaboration tools were added to the free version of Resolve with Resolve 17
One thing that is neglected here is that blackmagic's software is available on Linux! I know there are *literally* dozens of us, but I have been trying to ditch windows, and this certainly makes it easier!
I would love to make that switch but Nvidia GPU support is still spotty at best and I can't live without CUDA, also good 2D software for bitmap, vector graphics like Affinity, or photoshop/illustrator are not available same with RAW development on Linux. I just hope that Serif (the company behind affinity) will develop soft for Linux.
Nvidia is slowly opening its walled garden, and games are ported thx to Steam... Linux is looking better and better every day
@@silver7788 it's well supported on cent os which is what the whole VFX industry uses that's why maya, Houdini, nuke, resolve, fusion all works well.
We aren`t just dozens. Just as I knew deep inside that Corridor would someday start making content and talking about Blender, then Resolve, and eventually Nuke and Fusion, I feel that in future content Linux will be included. They just proved how open minded they actually are when speaking this freely.
Team Linux pros baby 🤜🤛
It's cool to see some recognition of HitFilm. It's maybe not a serious contender for industry heavyweight but for a hobbyist/vlogger/video-essayist it's more than enough and it's really head and shoulders above all the other free hobbyist-targeted editors.
I think a good experiment would be trying to recreate some of your old vfx shots in Resolve and Fusion in order to get into the mindset of how Fusion works. There are many things I do in After Effects that are just second nature to me on how I would achieve it but the process would be completely different in Fusion. The method in Fusion is probably just as simple but just a completely different method that I wouldn't have thought of because I don't completely understand the program yet.
Nodes are just a instructions, one node does one thing, you add a node to do one things and then you add another node to do another thing, if you want to put anything on top of anything, use a merge node. This was the only video that I watched as a comparison between nodes vs layers and that was the last time I touched after effects czcams.com/video/OgvswMcsrps/video.html
As someone who also got into VFX through After Effects back in 2017 maybe, my biggest issue now with any Adobe software is how long everything takes. I have a very capable, new computer. I use Final Cut Pro X and DaVinci Resolve Studio 17/18. Both of those programs can handle a ProRes file like it's nothing. Instant playback at full speed, no hiccups at all. But After Effects? That same clip in my timeline will render/cache at about 1 frame per 3-4 seconds with no effects or edits applied. How. How is it that every other video program can playback this ProRes footage instantly, but After Effects needs a solid 1.5 minutes to cache even one second of footage. If it cached it once and everything ran fine, there would be no issue, but the fact is, I can't just cache it once and be done, it has to update and recache every single time I change ANYTHING.
You're comparing video editing software with VFX software. Premiere Pro would be the equilvalent to Final Cut Pro X and DaVinci Resolve Studio.
That seems slow even for AE. AE is bad, but's not THAT bad. Just a videoclip with no effects or transformations should be caching faster than real time. Initial caching of a full HD Prores clip at full res (25 frames per second) on my system is about 2.5 times faster than real time and playback is virtually instantaneous. Even animating transformations on it doesn't change much for the speed. Do you have your cache on an SSD?
To Wren's credit, I, too, do every bit of photoshop-like editing of pictures in After Effects. I don't own or know how to use Photoshop, and After Effects handles it all
LOVE this discussion! Glad you all covered so much of the nuance.
Oooh boy. I was at NAB this year and on Day 1, After Effects crashed at 3 separate panels for completely different reasons. I spent a good chunk of that conference learning about Resolve and realizing that I don't actually have to put up with Adobe anymore if I don't want to.
My worst AE horror story though is that once, after an update, I had a glitch where AE would literally crash for no reason every 10-15min. I spent 2 weeks manually saving after every action because AE would crash like 25 times a day.
That's strange, because the number one thing I hear about Resolve is how it isn't as stable. I'm starting to wonder if these crashes everyone complains about are a Windows thing, because on my Mac, they're so incredibly rare that I'm totally shocked when it happens. And that's only when I'm totally abusing my machine with insane comps.
@@nathanpizar4630 people who are talking about crashes are using slower machines.
I stopped using Adobe completely like yearsssss ago.
Photoshop = Krita /// Premier + Effect + Audio = Resolve /// Illustrator = CorelDraw
1:03:25 Good video idea actually
lol can Krita come grade and all that?
look, I'm all for the free alternatives, but for me nothing will beat photoshop, you need a lot of programs to replace everything that it can do, and they do it worse
@@cruzefx3652 big fax
+1 for krita!
@@cruzefx3652 Affinity photo and Affinity Designer easily replace photoshop and illustrator in my work
I think Wren was spot-on with the parallels with Apple's rewrite of Final Cut Pro X, but there's an even more relevant example: Adobe Lightroom CC. Adobe Lightroom Classic is "too old" so Adobe rewrote it from the ground up to work on nearly any operating system and use modern cloud features, but people hate it because it's missing features. Rewrites are expensive and take a long time, but sometimes that's what you have to do to avoid being outcompeted!
But he forgot to mention Blender. People didn't hate FCPX because Apple rewrote it, people hated it because they changed how fundamentally it worked I think.
Resolve aside, I wanna give BMD props for their hardware support. They really took care of me, even for a legacy product....for problems that were (basically) MY fault. They didn't blame or shame me. They just helped me.
What product/was the issue I'm interested 🤔 🤔
@@mariotriforce It was an older PCI decklink studio sdi device. I accidentally bricked it attempting a firmware update. BMD offered to try and reset it at their headquarters (though because of its age and uncertainty about its condition, couldn't make any promises). They succeeded and sent it back to me. The support team was so helpful and reassuring during the whole process.
Some companies would have used my misfortune to try and sell me new stuff. I was glad to have my card back. Though I have since upgraded to the newer decklink recorders anyway, I still have my original device hooked up to a Sonnet TB3 external PCIe. Blackmagic Design did more than fix my stuff, they built confidence in their brand. That's what I buy now. AND I use DaVinci Resolve. (Sick of Adobe problems.) -Cheers!
@@QuestionMan well that's a nice story, Ive heard mostly good things about BMD support, the only really bad things is useally if the stuff is out of warranty/if they don't have the spare parts anymore so it depends on the office 🤔 still better then most tho one day I'll get that ultrastudio 😂
After the last ep, I uninstalled After Effects and Premiere pro and have already started my path on learning Davinci to replace them for some basic video editing and motion graphics. So much space freed up on the hard drive now :) thanks team!! I just thought the After Effects, Premiere, and Media Encoding crashes over the last year were my fault.
all that free spacee might have been cache. I recently cleaned 90 gigs of it :D
Like you, for ages, I have thought the crashes were my fault. I am shocked that so many people are having problems with basic functions like exporting
Don't blame yourself. That's victim blaming. Blame the predator.
I switched to Resolve because one day I had simply had enough of stupid random Premiere bugs.
There is a learning curve with the nodes, some things are still tricky, but at least it's my fault and not the program randomly not working the way it should.
Companies like Adobe and Autodesk have relied on being industry standards for so long that they got sloppy and ignored user issues and now that there are cheap or free alternatives like Clip Studio or Blender or Resolve, people gladly learn them just to escape Adobe's issues. God... do you know how many years it took before Flash (now Animate) got better brush options??
So impressed with this discussion. Totally agree, Adobe should focus on making After Effects better at what it currently does. Write a new node based app.
I am also impressed with this Podcast and the previous one. Adobe should be so much better for the price they are charging.
There is precendent for that as well, within Adobe. The market for desktop publishing software used to be pretty much divided between Quark Xpress and Adobe PageMaker. Both had pretty bizarre and cryptic interfaces, but were the only game in town. Then in 1999 Adobe released a completely new publishing software that made PageMaker obsolete (it was discontinued in 2004), Adobe InDesign, and it completely took over the entire market. There is basically no competition on this type of software anymore, because InDesign was lightyears ahead of the stuff that existed back then, and the new ones that came after have too much catching up to do.
This is what After Effects needs. Yes, it will suck to have a new platform that probably won't be compatible with decades worth of plugins available for AE, but at some point it needs to be done.
I can vouch for Affinity Photo. I got it when it was 50% at the start of the pandemic, so it was $25 once-off and I still get free updates. It has most of Photoshop's features although I think the interface isn't as refined.
yo, same I got Photo and Designer on that 50% sale and they're both fantastic tools that I can switch between with the click of a menu option AND you can export PSD's for those who haven't seen the light
Affinity products are currently on sale, for Australia at least.
I'm fully converted for the past 2 years now.
Someone really should create a "Adobe Creative Suite"-selfhelp group ;) The psychological damage that collection of bugs and gui atrocities in those programs caused must be substantial in the vfx community :/
Adobe therapy would be a thriving business 😆
Therapist: and how did you feel when premiere crashed on you for the 16th time..
Patient: I tried so hard to resist the urge to cry but I couldn't, I can't do this anymore, isn't there something you can give me to ease the pain?
Therapist: well, I'm gonna have to give you a prescription for 2 hours of davinci resolve daily, side effects might include severe panicking when you can't find a button that you need, but stick with the treatment and I promise it will be worth it, come back next week and we'll discuss your progress.
Such a thing already exists - it's called Adobe Support Community ;)
It's called Adobe user voice XD Gotta ignore those abusive moderators and Adobe employees who wanna make you believe it's your fault. Or just telling you they need more information about "the problem" because they can't figure it out from the 25+ replies on the topic... Yeah nah, jk but for me it was always good to see others are struggling with this and I'm not just a spoiled little graphic designer who has unique problems.
@@teher1k everybody is on the same boat - Adobe Suite sucks, it's outdated and needs major overhaul. It's vastly NOT optimised performance-wise, each new version gets slower for no reason - and on top of that, it needs like 500 quality of life tweaks but Adobe clearly doesn't care anymore. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed there will be a bit more heavy workload, desktop Procreate version released at some point (accompanied by something for vector graphics that is actually accurate, not that rubbish Illustrator)
I agree with Wren at 1:02:20 - I've worked in Prem & AE for over 10 years and have become proficient at both. Resolve I love for colour and have used since 2015. But am hesitant to switch my whole work flow.
I feel upset and let down for the 10s of thousands of hours that I've invested into Adobe, which barely runs in 2022 version.
Coming to terms with starting practically from scratch with a new work flow and software feels daunting. And makes me feel angry that Adobe let their relationships between their products and professionals slide.
31:30 this is called "motion economy" and it is a REAL and IMPORTANT discipline. anyone who says "quit whining that this 3 click operation could be 1 click" doesn't understand the importance of motion economy. 1unneccessary click multiplied by 1,000, equals wasted time, energy, money, and further repetitive strain on your hands and mind. good engineers take motion economy seriously.
I've been editing for about 12 years and I've bounced around from premiere to fcp 7 to avid and back to premiere in that time. I've been trying out the new resolve beta and I'm 100% switching once I've wrapped up my current project and not looking back.
I've lost days of work recently because premiere "supports" vsts but using literally even one instance of any vst will bog down a project and very quickly corrupt it to the point of not opening. But using vsts in Fairlight is as smooth and painless as any proper DAW I've used. Just night and day.
Anyway thanks for the discussion, that was like therapy.
Over the past four years I’ve been a high school art teacher and I can say that I was blown away by what I saw when it came to students and their use of programs.
When I introduced my graphic design students to photoshop and illustrator the majority of them were lost, frustrated, and completely uninterested to the point of dreading class each day. It was incredibly surprising to me to see how unfamiliar they were with the entire UI as well. It was all foreign to them and these are pretty smart students.
During COVID I had an opportunity to meet with a variety of industry professionals and there was a designer who reinforced what I was already thinking. She said she would rather higher a young designer who understands the principles and has great taste over someone who knows programs like photoshop. After three years of trying to find a way to make the Adobe learning experience better that was the push I needed to say screw it and transition the whole class over to iPads and procreate. It was the best decision for the students.
They understood procreate more intuitively, they loved the physical nature of using the Apple Pencil, they were genuinely interested in exploring and playing with the program to learn its features (something they did not do in photoshop), and the work the made was indistinguishable from the work past students made on photoshop. We created posters, T-shirt designs, book covers, and logos and it was a great experience for them and me. It also made it much easier to focus on learning the principles of design and not spending the whole semester trying to learn a program.
Adobe suffers from a interface that is becoming less user friendly with each generation. That interface and ultimately the price, even with education benefits, makes it hard to support and continue to use. I’ve been professionally and personally using photoshop since 2002 which makes it hard for me to transition away, but I know it’s coming.
It makes so much more sense to teach the younger generation on applications that are more intuitive for them and are actually something they can afford to use on their own. Sorry for the long story but I’ve been living this whole experience for a while now so this episode really spoke to me! Thanks guys!
That documentary that Wren mentioned at 28:46 is called "Off The Tracks". It's on the iTunes Store, highly recommend it!
In regards to layer vs node-based: Layers can easiliy be translated into nodes. (it's just a mix/merge node and it's inputs... that's basically it) So in case of a rewrite you could even do a hybrid. That shows you the layerstack in the beginning, but in the preferences you can enable the nodegraph. Mari (texturing software, not compositing) does it this way, so it can definitely be done.
This way you could have the lower complexity for beginners as well as the increased usability of the nodegraph for professionals.
nvm you do mention this later in the podcast too ^^
Blender is a good example of how rewriting can be a success. Blender 2.8 opened up the ease of use and accessibility to a whole new range of people. Things were easier and quicker to do, it was realtime, and it laid the foundation for improvements going forward. Some people I know still use the old 2.79 version because they're used to it, but I've been with the latest updates and never looked back. It is possible to do if you approach it correctly and with passion.
As a bonus, Davinci Resolve, Blender, and Unreal Engine work natively in Linux.
Linux distros are working and looking very good nowadays.
More control, freedom, security, and privacy.
Less bloat and system resource hogs.
hey, i never really tried to use blender and UE in linux yet because i'm not learning that software yet. but yesterday i installed fedora on my laptop as my attempt to switch to linux this year and fedora is the only distro that support my wifi module. but when i installed davinci resolve i can't open it. i see some post on reddit and a video from TechHut that explains about it being AMD driver issue or something, i found a fix, but it's way too risky and too hacky for me so i just switch back to windows 11. is there any suggestion(s) that you can tell me? thank you
(also i'm sorry if my english is bad, i'm not a native english speaker)
@@YogaWiranata What graphics card do you have?
@@nasaten for my laptop i think it's just an integrated AMD radeon graphics
@@YogaWiranata I had replied to this yesterday and my comment disappeared 😔
I had said that I find it weird that your wifi module is not supported by other distros. How do you actually know this? Have you actually installed other distros and it didn't work?
And Left Angle Autograph (The AE competitor mentioned in this video) is supposed to work on Linux as well, when it releases in the not to distant future (website says Q2 2022)
One of the biggest reasons I found I preferred Resolve and to a degree fcpx, was the UI latency. It's not just playback speed, it's the interface itself and how snappy it feels. Resolve, just really feels so much more snappy, each click, scrubbing literally do anything feels so much damn fast compared to Premiere. Once you start to feel that interface while working, there is no going back.
As a software Developer, I found Node based 1000% more clear and easier to understand than layers. I've never been able to 'get' layers properly. But nodes I'm doing full renders of intro/outro animations for youtube clips, etc... within hours of installing the software for the first time.
Nodes are the future.
I make video essays and I recently switched from the Adobe suite to Resolve. I cannot tell you how nice it is to be able to edit, color correct, do any light vfx work and sound design in one program that saves every key stroke. So much better and I'm never looking back
About 7-10 years ago, I found you guys, freddiew and Corridor Digital, and it was you guys that inspired me to start working on my dream of becoming a filmmaker. Early on my journey, I realized that I can't keep using Adobe products. It also pains me to keep using a pirated copy for my projects. So I decided to start a mission of ditching Adobe and just use free software. And I have no regrets. Back then, I really forced myself to go through the learning process of using free software and I wouldn't be able to get to this point now where I can make 3D animated films by myself using only free software if I didn't took all that time to learn.
Now I may not be as qualified as the Corridor Crew to give advice but yeah, go through that learning curve, go through that whole process of adjusting yourself with these free software and you will definitely get freedom. I remember feeling so free just realizing that I don't have to pay so much money or pirate anything just to make my art.
I fell in love with Resolve's colour grading abilities.
It gives me so much joy to see someone so enraged about exporting files. I feel so seen.
Posted this on the last video, but I'll also post it here: some context for what Adobe's gameplan unfortunately is:
I don’t know if this will get lost, but I have some context that might be interesting about Adobe. You guys talk about why they have 26,000 employees, what are they doing, etc. Adobe is all in on what they call the “Experience Cloud.” It’s a completely separate business from their “Creative Cloud.” It is where all the money is, it’s what the majority of their employees are working on. It’s a business analytics-based service for huge companies to figure out how to eek out the next little bit of SEO, audience engagement, etc. The “Creative Cloud” has taken a complete backseat to Adobe. It hardly makes them any money (relatively), and they’ve had such a stranglehold on the market that Photoshop, Premiere, and AE cover, that they legit do not care anymore. Personally, and I have no basis for this, but I think the Creative Cloud stops getting support, or at least regular support, in the next 5 years. Especially as the sentiment you guys present in this podcast becomes the prevailing feeling regarding their products. Maybe if there is a mass exodus and it affects the Experience Cloud side of things will they start to pay attention, but I doubt it.
I love jake as the main host of the podcast, the goofiness is relaxing
These episodes have made me feel so much better. I've constantly blamed myself or my gear for being the issue, but it's time for me to face it that the software just gets jankier and jankier every year. I've made multiple posts or tweets about how adobe needs to stop with all the pushing of their stock and BS stuff and make the products we ACTUALLY GO TO THEM FOR work and function well. I, too, will be moving to resolve soon.
Recently I had a similar thought to one mentioned in this episode. I started using After Effects in 1999, version 5.5 of After Effects. Over those twenty years we've had amazing technological advances in the world of computers and software. Yet you could transport After Effects 2022 back to that young man in 1999 and I would still know how to use it. It's barely changed. I'm not 100% sure if that's a bad thing or good thing.
On a separate note, I can't remember After Effects of ten years ago taking so long to actually show me a picture in the comp video when I open a project. I can be sitting there for a minute or more with no idea what After Effects is actually doing, just waiting for it to show me something.
I can see how difficult it would be to rewrite the software and still have it work with old projects and the many third-party plugins. So I agree that Adobe should create a new program that will eventually replace After Effects and let people transition to it when they are comfortable. Who knows? Perhaps they are already working on something like that.
I had a similar moment about 4 years ago when I went to NAB and I asked one of the Adobe After Effects developers if they have any plan to implement GPU acceleration, and he just responded with, "No, with how After Effects works, we don't have any plans of doing that." I was baffled. Powerful GPUs are pretty much the greatest tool to come to the creative industry for decades. How could they not be thinking about utilizing them?
I love the discussions you guys are having about this. As someone who's job is using AE, I've been feeling these things for years. The problem sucks even more in the mograph space because Fusion and Nuke aren't really viable alternatives. At least the VFX side has competition. Trying to animate a kinetic typography video in Fusion would be horrible.
I feel your exact feel. Cavalry is fighting the fight for Mograph, but until that's viable I seriously I don't see anything else that does what AE does in that field.
@Clippy booooooooooo
there you go czcams.com/video/pThfgG49-O4/video.html
After working as an some sort of "AE entrepreneur" for over a decade, there are two things that AE can add to your profit vs. competition. #1: The amount of 3rd party add-ons (scripts, extensions, plug-ins). I save tons of time with these 2. AE being layer - based, enables superfast workflow for both motion graphics & vfx. I would argue that for motion graphics, layer based is the better choice. For VFX I'd imagine node based system would have a lot of benefits and in complex vfx shots these benefits just increase. Not sure if it's possible, but it would be cool if AE would offer node-based workflow that you can use in addition to the layer based workflow.
Ya'll finally given me the courage to move on to Resolve. Thanks team, premieres been killing me for years!
Noting your comments about 58:43 about not mattering the number of people. That's exactly what the film everything Everywhere all at once was. Incredible visual effects done with a team of 5 people. Incredible!
I enjoying the fact that was ahead of you guys on the curve . It makes me feel like I know what I'm doing that I started on Resolve 15.
I have some video to cut up/combine. Premiere I knew, but it was so slow. I thought, hey, my 8 year old laptop is just shit. But then premiere wouldn't open some videos.
Got Resolve made some proxies and hey, it runs decently!
Just need to locate where some of the features are located at, where to look to know its doing what I think I am doing to the footage.
Hearing you guys, its nice to understand that the tool was not the best for the job, and we should forget Premiere like 3dsMax
I downloaded DaVinci Resolve while watching the last episode, hyped for this.
Great discussion and points!
As a developer, I do get how and why that lead dev told you they "can't" fix some issues you've raised and you guys pretty much got the idea why.
As you've mentioned, tech debt is a result of those small "we could away with for now and return to it later" things slowly building up. That is until they never do or could because the project and resources have to move on to things that presumably add more value such as features or more major bug fixes. It takes a dedicated management and dedicated resources to keep pushing to clear out those tech debts without impacting development.
Their leadership probably weren't as forward looking on how that would hurt them in the long run. Now that they're in way too deep, their dev team are probably better allocated to other stuff instead of trying to unravel a pile of wires at this point. If you think about it, it does make sense then to just create an AE 2.0 (heck probably their whole suite). But again, what does Adobe stand to gain from allocating a large dev team on one or few programs in CC to build them from the ground up?
I just hope they really do something and catch up!
You guys have sold me on Davinci Resolve. Gonna finally try it.
54:20 wouldn't be just upto 1996, I'd add upto 2021 as well because the Studio Makuta, they switched to Blender for most of their pipeline and they also user blender cycles in 3ds max for the crowd sim work they did for RRR and they also used Fusion for composting.
this video is like group therapy, 100% agree with everything said from reliability to adobe's awful communication
As someone who is now getting into video editing and some light VFX and decided to start in Davinci Resolve it's very heartening to see so many creators make videos about switching to it from Adobe.
When I hear all of this I’m happy I started with Resolve for editing, and light VFX work.
Good luck switching to it!
i definitely agree with the 'layer-based is easier for young filmmakers/beginners but it gets so complicated so fast'; but I'm starting to learn all things vfx and the layer system helps me so much when i have to work on a project, yes maybe node based its better, but for someone who recently entered the vfx/movies world, layers are my best friend
i recently did a couple of projects on houdini and started learning how to use pftrack, and let me tell you, the node based thing, was so hard to understand, now I'm slowly getting it, but still its a little difficult to understand sometimes
That's true, I did really hate nodes at the beginning, it didn't make any sense to me when layers were perfectly fine but sometimes I watched a video from school of motion about After effects vs Nuke and then I tried to do multipass composting in AE and that was the last time I touched AE. I prefer nodes so much more nowadays that I don't even touch any layer based software anymore because it seems like a waste of time to me. I do all of my video and image editing in fusion because it's so darn fast and flexible and most importantly procedural. When you are working on complex projects and you can go back and change things and you can visually see all the passes that you've used and you can see everything infront of your eyes and it's procedural and there's no precomps and it's freaking fast and you can use the same node and feed into multiple nodes instead of copying them and much much more. Not to mention AE doesn't have nearly as much tools for VFX as Nuke. You can do a 3D track in nuke and turn the tracking points into a point cloud and then see a point cloud representation of your track in 3D space and put things on a card and then position them in 3D space without any manual rotoing, and like a million other things and by the time you start to do stuffs like this in Nuke or Fusion, you aren't gonna wanna touch AE anymore. There's a very good reason why all Pro VFX composting software have been node based always. Flame, Shake, Fusion and Now Nuke.
Love watching these - reminds me of the group I used to work with back in the late 90's (you guys were probably barely born) - it was pre CZcams but we had the same discussions. I think what you've discovered is that you don't need a new After FX, your needs have outgrown it (there will be no 'complete re-write, you can just drop that fantasy). You are now in the Nuke, Fusion domain...or even give Flame a try - it's still around.
I'd also suggest asking to get on the Beta/Alpha team (or at least one of you) for After FX so you can see how difficult it really is to add a new feature or fix a bug from a dev that retired before you where in 7th grade. It will give you a new perspective on 'it just needs a complete re-write'. lol : )
I've mostly switched over to Davinci Resolve and Affinity for most of my work. The remainder I use my old licences whenever possible just to avoid all the issues.
it took more than 20 years for the philosophy started by Pure Data, maxMSP, Eyesweb, vvvv and all these experimental platforms to finally take off, Node Based (Visual) Task Programming is the way to go!
in Nuke the rotopaint node has the same tendancy to crash everything sometimes for no reason. It usually appends when there is a lot of plugins/scripts added to the software. Also because it is a simple basic tool, it is often the same code since the beggining in 1996, We often ask for a full rewrite, but apparently they prefer to put developpers on other stuff
In nuke it's mostly one plugin that takes the whole ship down with it i found... Pity some of the older ones have no real cut-off point and rake in the main programs memory areas with no regard for anything :/
I haven't watched much of corridor's podcasts but these ones ranting about software are my jam ❤️🤣
Listening to corridor crew talk about efficiency is my kink.
It's interesting that so many people think After Effects is something commonly used in high end VFX - in reality it never has been. Node based compositing has been industry standard for two decades...
Over 3 decades. Flame - Shake/Fusion - Nuke.
Wren mentioned watching tutorials for Fusion, the cool thing about Fusion is that almost all tutorials from version 6 (that's from before Blackmagic purchased it ) is still valid information.
One thing I don't like is that now it is almost impossible to find true Fusion tutorials, because now when you search Fusion on youtube it gives you 95% Resolve stuff and often it have nothing to do with what you are interested in. Or the person doing the tutorial have almost no idea on how the tools work.
Also, I feel like the stand alone version of Fusion is getting abandoned. There are several tools that are from Resolve and when you are in the Fusion page you can access them, but if you are in the stand alone version they are not available.
I watched both podcasts and I really appreciated it! Like actually knowing that you can successfully create with only a few grand is impressive. Gonna watch more of these!
For preferred applications, I have switched to Da Vinci Resolve (soon to be Studio ) and the Affinity Suite (which covers Designer (aka Illustrator,) Photo (aka Photoshop), and Publisher (aka InDesign).
A slight learning curve to all the apps but with CZcams, help is only a click away. Additionally, all mentioned apps are Buy Once and own for life (at this moment).
33:50 - I'd say technical debt is more a culmination of "good enough" development. It may work well enough with minimal issues at the time, but it has a stacking effect. Those little problems add up to a more generalized instability, and if things weren't designed with flexibility in mind, it might be impossible to fix without a massive change. And usually, the cost and time to resolve it is so high that companies begin to compromise on newer features because they can no longer make a better product without completely breaking the existing software. Usually, if it goes on long enough that they cannot compete with other software, they'll finally justify the cost to start developing a new one from scratch.
I filmed a music video for the first time ever (really my first video project ever besides some school stuff) and had to learn how to do so many things I've never even thought to attempt before. I also barely used after effects previous to this and ended up using it a lot on this project. The amount of times it crashed was ridiculous. I had cool ideas I wanted to do and after going through the work to learn how to do them in after effects for the program to just not work with what I was trying to do was infuriating. Some things I had to just scrap and some things I just had to leave it to look janky because of time constraints. I'd literally finish editing for the day, boot back up my computer the next morning and some effect or scene that took me hours to get to look right went from working perfectly fine to causing me to have to scrap the entire thing because some part of it just stopped working. Great experience all around.
Besides the sarcasm I actually learned so much doing that music video.
12:03 LMAO it's happening behind his head on the bluish background right as he's talking about it. So much blockiness haha.
I do Comp for 2d animation on AE and for the last 5 years I have the same thoughts about all of those problems, its really good to hear someone else voicing them. But the sad thing is that at this point I have no hope they will change it. I have written tons of Auto Hotkeys automations to circumvent some “clicking hells” in AE, I just wish we could get a new software that uses ram and gpu correctly to get us into modern day video/animation workflow.
We switched to Fusion (a bit before Nuke was publicly available) back in 2005, I see Adobe hasn't changed one bit since tthen. Slowly replaced all other tools in our pipeine to better, more actively developed tools over the years as well (Affinity, Houdini, etc)
Just like when Wren made a video when he switched to 3ds max to C4D, he should make another one about switching from adobe to Davinci.
I have so many plugins and scripts for After Effects it makes it hard to completely leave alone. Im also more used to the layer based approach for motion graphics versus node-based motion graphics in Fusion. As far as editing, I made the switch from Premiere Pro to DaVinci Resolve a couple years ago for my personal and freelance projects. I purchased the Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer apps when they were on sale but havent gotten too into them yet. I need to find some good tutorials.
At the 16:00 mark when you talk about the dynamic link, I was PLEASENTLY surprised to know that you all do the same thing I do with that feature 😂
Also, I agree with so much of what you all are saying. There needs to be some major rewriting of the software. It's so buggy so much of the time, and it destroys workflow.
Also just looked up Left Angle's Autograph (the program Niko was talking about) and saw that it's going to be distributed exclusively by RE:Vision Effects...the makers of RSMB: Reel Smart Motion Blur...which we ALL know and love. Sounds promising!
I was on the fence about switching to Resolve Studio. Then Premiere 2022 took it upon itself to ruin my short film project timeline. Luckily it didn't take long to fix but I shouldn't have had to in the first place. I'm transferring current projects for Filmmaker Survival over to Resolve and will be using it going forward.
Keep applying the pressure guys!!
All this applies to most tech these days, unfortunately. From operating systems to software to programming languages. Jonathan Blow and Casey Muratori (Molly Rocket) have both talked about about this a lot over the years on their channels. If you asked them to discuss it on your podcast I think they'd probably agree, and you'd really get down to the gritty details of what causes the problems and what (if anything) can fix the problem.
This would be great to see. Casey is probably the sharpest spear-tip for this topic. It would be awesome to see him on here.
"A Plea For Lean Software" was published in 1995, and companies have been ignoring it for soon 30 years.
Please look up Chapter 130 of the Resolve Reference manual. It will make you understand how the different pages work together. And also understand for example how there is 9 different ways to start a Fusion Composition... They are all slightly different. Understand the differences and therefore avoid issues.
I have been really active on a BMD community Discord for multiple years and learned about all kinds of issues and intricacies that you might not expect.
It's nice to know that others are experiencing issues too and I'm not just crazy, especially when you try to mix their new tools with more legacy ones. I've heard enough from you guys talking to where I'm going to try learning more davinci resolve.
I agree on the phone, having it with you all the time means you can block out ideas at any time, of course don't overload yourself and be prepared to make lot of mistakes, and allow yourself to experiment and replicate other things that inspire you so you learn faster without taxing your enthusiasm
I found the bit about about the free stuff and getting started - I started with GIMP with some plugins and Blender. Now I do some editing on the side but also make a lot of 3d models and print them using a resin printer
Gosh, I feel you guys. I'm not doing much with video but I'm working with Photoshop professionally for over 15 years by now and I get the impression that adobe cares less about the state of it since CC (basically since it's subscription based) It's at a point that I'm hesitant of downloading the newest updates because I'm afraid something might not work properly, glitch or the programm just might crash on certain steps, if I do. (Wich is crazy if you think about it - being afraid of something wich is supposed to improve things) Unfortunately I don't see any real alternative at the moment. as Cruzefx said... the fearture density isn't there in other programmes (yet).
This is the first time I’ve heard anyone talk about Black Magic pocket cinema cameras since the update ~11 months ago! I still use mine (not a professional, still an amateur) and was confused when people stopped making tutorials and videos about these products. So glad the Corridor guys still enjoy them! Does anyone else still use them though?
Love the discussion and all the comments about people moving over to Resolve. After investing so much training and hardware into Final Cut with Firewire drives. I was pissed at Mac and moved to PC years ago which left only adobe. I have been in Resolve a few years now, but still have my Adobe CS6 to fall back on for motion graphics. Love the idea of a program specific editing battle on the Corridor Crew.
I have both the 3 Affinity programs, Photoshop and Illustrator, I can confidently say that Affinity Designer has 100% replaced Illustrator for me, sadly I can’t say the same about Affinity Photo.
Don’t get me wrong, Affinity Photo is an amazing program, it can do almost everything Photoshop can and I’d say the average users could easily get by with it over Photoshop, but I personally can’t give up Photoshop’s Camera Raw filter or AI tools, I’ve used the content aware tools for so many projects and both 3D and photo compositing commissions and it’s saved me so much time or fixed things I might not have been able to fix myself at that moment.
Also, I use DaVinci Resolve over After Effects / Premiere Pro and I’m in love with it.
REMEMBER, AFTER EFFECTS IS NOT ONLY USED IN COMPOSITING! IT IS THE MAIN MOTION GRAPHICS TOOL AROUND, WITH NO COMPETITOR IN SIGHT. and nodes does not work that well with mo graphs. They should keep it, but focus on motion graphics and create a node software for compositing, cause these are clearly two very different purposes.
PBS Spacetime runs on that dynamic link manager copy and delete trick. Every episode there's at least one VFX thing I can't render with alpha and there's no reason for it, so I have to export a random png sequence and it is a nightmare to the editor when the revisions come.
Wow, I feel so much better now. Thank you boys
Rewatching this and nearly spit out my coffee when I got an Adobe ad. I bet their ears were burning ;)