The Ultimate Neutral Item Tier List 7.34b
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When it comes to neutral items, I'm usually able to come up with a list of heroes for each item that could use the item both better than other items of the same tier, and better than other heroes. I think picking the right neutral item comes down to understanding what sort of stats and utility best suite your hero in a given match.
Absolutely
As a degenerate LC picker, Vindicator's Axe is the pick every game unless you get Sliver. Dual counts as a SILENCE, so it's free DMG every time you pop Dual.
And the ARM is nice if you get stunned in Dual.
S tier info/comment
Whoa, thanks for the info. I never even thought of this lmao.
Book of Shadows should be much higher (like S+ Tier) , yeah most people don't know how ro use it, but its a unpurgebale save in the late game.
When used correctly - it's absolutely insane.
Anti faceless void
Should be S tier tbh
Great you save a teammate for 4 seconds. They cant do anything during that time, and die after? How is that a tier 5 ability?
I think the best use would be to take out an enemy carry like medusa or something out of the fight for 4 seconds I think. If it were bkb piercing that would be good. Is it?
Seems a little more situational than others. S+ should be a bear 100 percent pick
Personally I like vindicator axe very much. Good against stuns slow and silence, which are always going to exist in almost every single game.
To me the item makes no sense. It gives u dmg when u are silenced but when are u going to manfight them while silenced? If u a support u run the freak away, if u a carry u manta/bkb and then fight. +35 attack speed is meh at that point too. And 20% slow resist is barely noticable
@@jaytay420mask of madness
@@pedrohenrique-db3xdyeah. That item is just screaming Faceless void: Attack Speed and damage when silenced.
I take it often as a generic carry item since free attack speed is good. It's rarely the first choice, but I've never felt like I'm settling with it.
It was game changer for me once, against silencer and stun enemy, my slardar turned into beast with it.
You can practise Book of Shadow mechanics basically by playing Shadow Demon and saving people with Disruption.
Or od with shard
or just spawn the neutral in lobby lol
Agree. And as a Shadow Demon user my rule of thumb is just use these to save my teammates.
book of shadows is super good, I think of it was a sheep stick with a super low cooldown or a save that makes your teammate uninteractable I'd actually take it if I see it especially when there are heroes that do a trillion damage late and you just don't want to deal with them until their team is dead
I think it can be switched with your c Tier apex because it just does more, you can just remove the hero you have the most issues with in the fight and kill all his teammate then finish him off when you're done with them
edit: I'm not as frustrated with the tier list due to the S tier being objectively correct with one exception being defiant shell which I think is situationally good on heroes that have abilities similar to monkey king jingu I'd just move it down a tier without even replacing it in its current tier
BSJ keep this in mind vindicators axe is S tier on any hero that makes mask of madness + 30 dmg free
the toy is so badly overlooked. cant say how many times ive sensed my death and dipped up or down hill out of vision and lived with that thing. i go swap range with vs so a telescope is literally lifeblood to my teamfight strat. the shovel is also very underrated as when you get it, youre probably behind and other ppl probably have all the better neuts. any neut that gives me an ability rather than stats is what i want. ioll keep a t2 neut that gives an ability like a toy before ill take a stat t3.
I think book of the dead can be situationally very good in the ultra late game to just free push any wave. He says only good on summon heroes, but it's also good when you have no summon heroes. It gives you a way, potentially on a support to risk free push a wave out. It could push while roshing or pressure a rax during a team fight etc.
The decision which neutral item to take depends for the most part on which hero you play and vs what heroes, what items you currently have, what items do your opponents have, what items do your teammates have. In short it's almost entirely situational. Therefor making a tier list of neutral items is not particularly useful IMO.
Man do I ever feel called out for how terrible I am at the game because I like pretty much all of the D tier items lol. I play a lot of offlane chase heroes though, obviously it depends on the state of the game but these items feel pretty good most of the time (especially dragon scales). I know Vambrace is suppose to be good but idk man, something about it just feels shitty when you have occult and vambrace is 1 of the options, I guess it just comes down to whether you need the mana regen or not.
If you are good at tread swapping it is amazing. Also on certain heroes it makes it so you can 1 shot creepwaves when on int mode with the spell Amp.
penta edge sword is underrated on lvl 25 medusa. i get it every game if i can + skadi and then once i hit 25 the enemies literally can't move
Are they the "worsorist" of the group?
Like ur video but I think Duelist gloves are S, spark of courage is A or even B(I mean strictly worse than occult) in my opinion, since 12 dmg AND 20 arrack speed is so much in early game fights. It's equivalent to 2 more auto attacks, think about it. Yet SoC is only an "OR" item. 6 dmg when jungling is not a big issue. Not mentioning that during early game most dmg is magical, if you fall under 50% health you are most likely dead, 7 armor can help too little.
Long time subscriber, wish your best of the channel!
Ex machina is S+ tier. Any semi tank can get this and void just cries in his own chrono.
The item refresh is game changing, double bloodthorn, double hex, abysmal, it makes heroes a stun lock machine.
I get gossamer cape a lot on sand king and it feels pretty strong. Often allows me to blink when my reaction is slow becasue they miss the first attack after getting detection
BSJ, I don't want to be rude, but u have to give those kind of videos more than 15 seconds of thought.
Let's say we are a support and we did NOT get a Phily stone in t2. Let's pause a video at the end with all the items on the screen: what do we take?
In S tear we have only the Spec Array (dps item), In A tier we have The Bow, The Orb (dps items) and the Stone which we didn't get. In B tier we have Aquila (dps items) and 2 stat-sticks: The Apple for +15 to str (hopefully, if you are not a Str support) or a Vambrace. That's it. Pass. And this leaves us with all the utility: the Cape (against any right clicker), the Eye of the Vizier for cast range and the Whip to speed up allies: all 3 that you basically sent to shit-tier.
The same happened to the Book of Shadows: the BEST save option in the game (basically sharded OD Astral) which is what any support would kill for and you send it to shit-tier.
Bullwhip is also tied for 7th most picked neutral of all tiers on Pro Scene in 7.34.
My man, I understand you don't have to play support even for the tokens like the rest of us but at least keep the integrity of an analyst by putting "From a Core perspective" in the title.
I had so much better game as CM at 20 minutes just because I got Dragonscale. Or atleast it felt like it because I wasn’t right clicked insta dead. It’s still pretty bad yea but might be more situational just for armor
It’s a very nice item for Phoenix… and DK if you’re roleplaying.
As a tusk and razor player alot of items in d tier have been extremely helpful, especially martyrs plate. If you have. A blink, heart and a couple of teamfight items like pipe, ac, or blade mail you can swing fights for your team and enable them to be much better off. Don't even need the heart with a bm and pipe.
Against pure dmg or physical is a different story but Almost every game has magic damage.
Storm crafter is stituationally good if you have spell steal and tank items. Like a really malformed razor or bristleback.
Last patch when no one in crusader could finish games book of the dead was so good at killing buildings.
Book of Shadows is being super underrated here. It's either a 50% uptime save or a 50% uptime disable.
I very much underestimated seeds or sererity. It used to suck when it came out, and I barely ever looked at it or used it again lol. Will def pick it up more often
I think vampire fangs is a bit underrated. On nightstalker for example it feels absolutely op with ult vision.
But even on other heros the night vision can make a hard to notice but very powerful advantage. Its night 50% of the game overall.
Might make sense for these tier lists to start from S/A and work your way down so that you can compare why the B-D items are worse than those above. Just food for thought you are obviously the expert
Trusty shovel is very good in the sense that you can keep it in your backpack - it can create so much value throughout the game.
I do the same and average out 5-8 bounty runes. That's gold for the whole team and makes a bit of impact.
Ye focusing on switching neutrals should be more of a thing. Cooldown goes on in backpack, and makes it quite good
@@erwindatema9268Ye West
You really should have mentioned just how insane defiant shell can be on heros like Naga and PL. It has some insane spike potential.
Does it proc on the illusions or just to riptide/make juxt ilu?
+ PA
@@joaosol7234 illusions do proc defiant shell so they can easily spawn more PL illusions.
Why is Ceremonial Robe B-tier when Timeless Relic is S-tier? It's functionally similar and although relic has much better numbers, robe also works for your allies.
Defiant shell can mess up you on-attack procs. It can make you waste your buffed attack (tusk, dark seer, kunnka,...) I think this item can be detrimental to pick-up with some heroes.
The DS interaction is good sometimes tho xD
"Ur stunned but u displace that Ursa and live lol"
I like it with tusk and the last talent with the 8% chance of walrus punch 😅
it can mess up your invisibility too
skill issue
Book of the dead is almost certainly not a D tier item. In certain games it actually gives you a win condition that you didn’t have before. Some games you are mega’d and or are held in base, or can’t even walk into their base. These creeps actually do huge damage to buildings and can allow a team to rat in a way that most drafts can’t. Or you can use it to chip buildings down safely. I have won games just because I got lucky to get the book and micro’d well. You can also cut waves and stall since they last so long and they are a walking gem, so I’ll argue it isn’t as straightforward as it seems.
In other words, to summarize what I meant, it can make unwinnable games winnable. No matter how situational or hard it is to win in those scenarios, just the fact that it does that is pretty unique and makes it deserving of a better spot.
As an arc player, book of the dead is mega broken. Defending against it is a nightmare.
@@parham1023I can imagine because if you lose your attention for even a moment there goes your tier 3 😂. Now imagine if there are two sets haha
@@safaobuz yup. Its even worst in turbo btw XD
The way I've only been taking the D and C rank items 😂😂😂 (I'm soo bad at this game 😭)
I haven't even seem the full list yet, but if seeds isn't high I'm seething and malding.
As a pos 4 players who generally plays initiators, going in, putting the seed down and just sitting in it post initation has saved me so many Damn times. If you play Tusk or earth spirit or clockwork and armor from shard isn't as valuable seeds will super save you until t2 items
Decent list, he dumpsters arcanist armor despite it being an aura item that makes your whole team tanks.
Paladins sword also buffs the healing you output on healers like Oracle.
This would've made so much more sense to do by neutral tier instead of by quality tier - it's hard to switch between neutral tiers
I think part of the reason its so hard to high ground and end is because T3 and T4 items are weak overall compared to t1/2 (in that the boost they give is less compared to the base hero at that stage of the game), and also because none of them are good for sieging. Even at t4 with tricksters sure you can disengage if you get jumped pushing HG but then waiting out the 25s cd means that hero you ganked is now respawning and you have to back.
I think pstone and especially shovel are good regardless of role IF if if .. it's near or past the 14/21 minute mark and you don't have something yet. I think it's wild that people don't keep their shovel in thier backback all game if there's room. Like you could just be digging up rats and runes all game and sometimes for you or your teammate the mango and salve can be clutch. it's unlikely a carry wont find something sooner, but maybe a 3,4,5 gets one at 17-20 min .. might as well have free gold from pstone when you die.
Fun fact, if you get disperser with force boots, you can move at 1k movespeed
I admire your growth as a content creator Mr Jamma. Props to you, keep grinding, and be well ! :)
The only thing I find awkward about force boots is you will often want tp boots for late game.
Mostly agree with this. Did you know that you're E range is the extended one on drow with enchanted quiver?
i' not sure about shovel, if u got the little thing that gives u gpm, let it follow ur carry or just follow the team, it's a lot of money
I would like some explanation on the Melee Range Increase items, i always take those cuz they help me finish kills and just easier to kite with. Why are they not preffered i feel like they help a lot?
(i very low rank player and just would like to learn)
Anybody can correct me, I’m respectfully a divine player.
The items you mentioned talks about armors, + melee range and damage for a minimal standpoint... they are good, however since every player are given 5 jg items to choose from. I’ll try to break it down.
At tier 1 most melee carries ( since u mentioned melee range buffs ) the best jg items that u must usually have are pig pole, and the mana circlet, even a seeds of serenity also matters sometimes when u get kicked out of lane early and farm jungle. The reason why pig pole and circlet are picked by melee carries is because they are filled with STATS which lower mmr must not underestimate. Stats increase almost everything from damage, hp , and somehow armor ( since agi increases armor) compared to broom handle.
Tier 2 is stuffed with so many stat items where you could choose from, and carries usually bring vambrace for the same reason, STATS! exclusively for carries.
it goes on and on from tier 3-5 and what differs tier 3-5 from the others are that you must adjust things to the game itself. As carry it is not usually damage since everything is occasionally good.
I hope I shared something, feel free to ask cuz i somehow got lost lol!!
@@bonbulgogi4624 I see thank you for your clarification,(got lost) dw i understood the thought that u wanted to share :D
book of the dead i think is like b tier late game with pos 4 or 5 supports that could use it to help push out lanes when you cant leave ur base at 60 mins with two racks gone
also good for scouting or taking out wards
love this tier list series
hey bsj what ur opinion on luna new shard damage reduction? I find that I dont need to always buy bkb and doing just fine but do need lifesteal tho...
Apex is the most OP neutral item, esp on heroes like agility, strength based heroes
When playing Pudge, I always get the Ring of Vizier.
BSJ i'm ancient 1 pos5 player, most of the times i find difficult to swap my philosopher's stone over another higher tier item due to the gold it provides. It is a silly decision?
You were right about one thing master, DotA is above the rest. 😎👍🔥
As a 4/5 player, I can confirm that the common support items are pretty good. But I don't like either of the Books.
From the perspective of a person that loves playing aura based offlaners arcanist armor is at least a B tier and whip I would bump to C tier the active is very nice for less mobile aura based heroes to speed them self or slow enemy for kills the mana and life regen are generically nice.
How to practice tier 5 items? Play turbo, they’re in almost every game. Also book of the dead gives 50dmg to universal heroes…
i love using my martyrs plate with mi abaddon pos 5
Hey BSJ, you say that swapping in ninja gear is stupid, how is swapping in shovel any less stupid?
whenever I get Grove Bow on a ranged right clicking carry like Drow or something similar, I'm always like "game is over guy, we won"
same. i like Drow on these items especially Apex. I dont know why he put it on the B tier list, its really overpowered for certain heroes like agility or strength based heroes
Me, looking at tier list and thinking "it is all completely wrong, maybe S tier items mostly in the right place as it is so OP" and then I remember that you are right clicker and I mostly play 3 or 4, so tank, mage cc/dmg spam or back lane support. So here is what totally wrong for me:
D tier:
Broach is S tier, still a lot of movement to win trades plus mana for burst. Awesome. Sure fairy trinket and sometime spark can be better pick even for 3 and 4, but...
Bullwhip is A tier. Almost always there is 1 item situationally better, but you don't always get it. And second pick - free hp AND mana regen + some ms for ally? Yes, please
Dandellion is A tier, it is upgrade of Broach, but by 3 lvl there is normally something better for your specific hero. If not (which is maybe 5% of games) then Dandellion will do
Penta sword is B tier, situationally best for attack range more then for dmg, but if you are kunkka it might be best item you can have
C tier:
Broom handle is A tier, armor + some attack range and damage can be situationally good to win as 3, better then spark
Pig pole is B tier, just some good stats, especially for universal hero
Fangs is B tier, situationally best item, but in other cases completely useless.
Eye of vizier is S tier, best items for support at 2nd tier
Telescope is S tier, depending on support best item at 4th tier and in whole game or 3rd after timeless and prism
B tier:
Shovel is S tier, best value item in game so no brainer for pos 5 and often pos 4 too. Support will often keep it in main slot if not fighting for faster cd and more gold runes and small regen items even at 40 min
Vambrace is A tier, for caster it gives dmg (so almost as good as fairy), for right clicker attack speed which can still be relevant, for pos 3 - magic resist, better then other alternatives
Quickening charm is A/S tier, situationally best 3rd tier item for any pos 3 and 4 mostly because of CD.
Prism is S tier item, picked right after timeless on any sup or pos 3 mage and often also on cc-based supports
Seer is A/S tier, best in 5th tier for support and sometime mage, but still worse then timeless so...
Apex is A tier, great for tanks for even more hp and for agi for even more as, maybe not as good as some other options, but you don't always get them
A tier:
Tumbler toy is good for bursters/assassins which is kinda meta now, but bad for winning trades in lanes for supports, so B tier at most
Seed of serenity is only good for right clicker 1 and sometime 5 or melee burst 4, but that's it. So C tier
Trickster cloak is B tier, yes it has some mag res and evasion, but almost always there is something better to pick and anti invis is picked earlier anyway even in herald (if it's not what BSJ cherry pick)
Ascetic is D tier. It is situationally useful for right clicker pos 1, but that's it. Nobody else want it. To get rid of CC there are other tricks and 20 hp regen - too little for tank and inconsequential for sups who will die from burst anyway
S tier:
Occult bracelet is B tier. It is still good even after nerf, but just like with other B tier items there is almost always something better.
Ogre totem is C tier. Great for heroes he is great for, useless for everyone else.
Ninja gear is B tier. Maybe it is just low mmr, but there everyone is very wary about map awareness, warding and smokes so they are nowhere as good (or people are just not good enough at using them for insta killing 5)
Force boots is B tier. Sure it gives mobility and some regen and force staff, but almost every time there is something better (unless you are again some burst early game assassin)
So here you go, perspective of pos 3 or 4 player :)
went from legend to divine using only wd and bara, now it's hard to climb up to immortal. currently stuck in divine 2. need help asap.
its easy to learn to use the book of shadows in overthrow 3.0
Philosopher stone best item
Enchanted Quiver is so nice in my pubs!
Can't believe you put arcanist armor so low. It's a free pipe and a blademail for the team!
In my testing I found that Apex is more DPS than Stygian on Deso on PA so I'm a bit surprised you have stygian deso higher than apex in the tier list
Because Apex on PA also gives attack speed. If your carry is not agi hero, it doesn't give that much dps. With stygian deso, any carry hero always gets 60 damage&10 armor reduction. Besides, PA loves armor reduction especially with extra damage as well
Wouldn't pig pole be good for universal heroes?
I think Whip is a lot better than D. It's the best T2 for mana, and a lot of heroes are bottlenecked by their mana regen at that point. Especially offlaners and mids who just want to farm with their spells to finish their items. The slow is pretty nice too
Yes its nice on timber for example
agree with everything except for tunic and ceremonial robe.
i think robe is overrated, 10% isnt that impactful especially after they nerfed all stuns. i would take tunic any day just for the 7% extra movspd and the evasion.
I love bullwhip tho, such a nice regen.
Apex quite good for Universal hero
Ex Machina isn't S tier?? Double BKB and double Aeon is just so clutch late game, can't see Ex Machina as anything under A tier at least
Ex Machina is still S tier for me - effect is just too damn good
But it's only great with heros have large mana pool
Martyrs plate spectre blademail tho
Book of the void is top tier.
I faced a drow, basicly i booked her, vyse, book, halebard, book. shecant do shit for 20+sec
I play support and the only item I care about is the money stone 😂. Other than that, whatever
i pick specialist array even when I play melee heroes :))) who doesnt want 140 HP, 19dmg and a bunch of mana?
13:59 😦😦😦😦😦😦😦😦😦
All hail bsj🎉🎉
1:30
"these items feel much worser than what they do"
bruh much worser? are you serious lmao im out
I think you literally have your list upside down.
HEAR YE HEAR YE
BSJ HATES BOOKS
Funny I see WoW tagged on this video...
How is Apex better than all of the neutrals (except book of the dead) below it?? It's so ass it doesn't do anything, especially when compared to the others.
dandelion is bad？yo its save me to many time
I know dota is situational and all, but other than the S tier ones I do not agree with a lot of these..
Gossamer cape is the biggest counter to an ember
Why is that? Can’t sleight chains you?
no damage from fist. Fist cd is 5sec, item is 4 sec. It s realy strong@@Dodo-li2no
I'm waiting eagerly for the support tier lists. I also feel like ninja gear might just get removed at this point since it breaks the fundamental smoke limit of 7 mins per smoke.
Hm, still not saying occult right are ya...
ascetic (as·cet·ic)
occ-ult 10:57
Love it
you look like dream
Good 👍
actually worst tier list ever. Agree with all the S tiers basically but everything else is not it
worser is not a word, just say worse :)
Bs
Can we have other videos than tier lists? I like them, but it's just too much, every channel is doing the same thing.
finally a defiant shell enjoyer
when i see trickster. i get org*sm real quick. ngl