$395 Allen Edmonds vs $179 J&M... What's the difference?
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- The classic Park Avenue 6 eyelet cap toe Oxford by Allen Edmonds retails for $395, while the very similar looking Melton cap toe Oxford by Johnston & Murphy retails for $179. What's the real difference? This video goes into details, showing how both models are constructed.
Other videos referenced:
"Goodyear Welted vs Blake Stitched Construction Shoes":
• Goodyear Welted vs Bla...
The video production quality on this one is not very good, but the content is. "Leather Quality explained: Aniline? Full Grain? Corrected Grain?":
• Leather Quality explai...
I know this one is about belts, but there is a very good animated explanation about corrected grain vs full grain. "High vs Low Quality Belts & How to get 'em cheap!":
• High vs Low Quality Be...
"Leather Talk with Phil from Horween/Ashland Leather - Part 1":
• Leather Talk with Phil...
"RETURNING & Repairing my New Allen Edmonds":
• RETURNING & Repairing ...
Music Credit: "Rediscover" original instrumental by Aq Xico, used with permission. He's a local artist and friend, check him out on CZcams and Soundcoud if you're into modern urban music. - Jak na to + styl
Just thought I'd point out really quick, the Tan color in the Melton is actual FG leather, not corrected grain as is on the burgundy and black colors. It's really odd, I know. I work at J&M, I mention this because the Tan melton specifically is actually a pretty good bargain at $179 (good year welted, the leather is good, it's actually comfortable).
That was exactly what I was gonna say because I personally own a pair of tan Melton full grain leather and they are exquisite and the leather is very supple, of course overall incredibly confortable !
Great point. Now that you mention that, one of my friends at the office bought that shoe. I even featured it on a video I did a couple years ago where he almost ruined them with salt exposure in the winter! I completely forgot about that!! Thanks! I’ve pinned this comment so people can see it easier.
I own the tan Melton as well. I love them. I also own the black and cordavan. I don't like the leather on those two.
Ditto
I’m not sure what production yours was, but mine circa 2017 is corrected grain. I currently don’t think the Melton line in 2021 has changed
An old boss I had about 10 years ago once recommended Allen Edmonds to me. Bought my first pair about a decade ago and never looked back; I now have 5 pairs of them and they'll probably last me for the rest of my life. My cobbler is always blown away by the quality whenever I bring in a pair of my Allen Edmonds for work. I think that pretty much says it all.
My first Allen Edmonds, which look like I bought them last month, are at least 12 years old by now. I've lost count. The first day I wore them, the department chair did a double take and said, "Those shoes look expensive!" I said, "They're an investment." If they ever wear out, AE will give me new leather tops for half price. They offered, knowing the things never will.
This is a very helpful video. Insightful! Thank you, Sir.
I love the enthusiasm you have discussing different brands
Thank you!
Always enjoyable videos for which I thank you.
Cheers
Brilliant, as always! Thanks Bob!
My older J&Ms have most all of the construction features you mention about the AEs. I bought them at the Nashville factory (no longer in existence.)
My sister is a custom tailor and she used to carry Allen Edmonds. I like the look of the Italian made "5" series A&E produced; great uppers & very stylish; however, I was getting out of my car one day and the top of the heel fell off, found out that the heel was made out of paper! I was really suprised! Bought them at cost and glad I did. Took them to a Mexican gent in Phoenix who replaced the tap and "rebuilt" the A&E import. A&E is going down the trail of corporate mediocrity being acquired by hedge funds who whore the brand name. I bought a casual pair that turned out to be made in the Dominican Republic. I worked my way through school selling Florsheim in the 60's; now it is dreck from India.
Wow, sad to hear things like that failing.
I'm glad I found your channel. Subscribed!
Thank you!
Had 1 pair of Allen Edmonds back in 2013 I got for my brother’s wedding and they were never comfortable despite the price. Fast forward to 2020, I’m working a job being on my feet most of the day, and I get a pair of Johnston & Murphy Chucka boots that fit and feel so comfy. I bought 2 more like it and now a pair of their casual boots and I’m very happy with them for the price.
Excellent information!
I, personally, like Alan Edmonds and have several pairs of their shoes. I do have difficulties with my feet and can't compromise to a less expensive or poorly constructed shoe.
13:33 really appreciate the fact that you sacrificed a really nice shoe for your viewers understanding Mr.Roberts ! 🙏
Thank you! But it wasn’t that nice… it was a wingtip kilted tassel loafer with a huge kilt. Very 1970’s; a very dated shoe.
I have many pairs of Allen Edmonds, Alden, C&J. Plus, many pairs of J&M. You can't beat those J&M's for under $200. AE ain't what it used to be.
Just got a pair of Melton cao toes in burgundy on sale ($130). The corrected grain leather is instantly noticable on look and touch. They aren't close to any of my pairs of AE's. But, I haven't found many oxblood or burgundy shows in the AE lineup as of late, and at the price, these will serve the purpose in my collection. Once the soles go, I will put either some better leather soles or Dainite
Amazing! This channel needs move views!
The real question is does a slightly different leather type justify a 100% premium mark up. You literally need to look at someone's shoes very closely to tell the difference for double the price. Also from personal experience, more expensive shoes although last longer, are much more uncomfortable and causes knee/hip problems. This is especially true every time I try on my $300 Simone and beckett boots and $200 thursday boots vs my $80 calvin klein boots and $120 Johnson Murphy boots. Every time the 2 higher cost ones causes me knee and hip problems but the cheaper ones feel like butter, no joint problems. I use the same orthopedic insoles for all 4 pairs.
Very nicely done :)
Thanks for posting I feel a little smarter !!!!!!!!!
👊🏼😎
Robert Powers:
This video was a good one about the difference between Allen Edmonds shoes and Johnston & Murphy shoes. Both brands are of repute and have been long standing. The Johnston & Murphy Melton with a suggested retail price of $179 is certainly an acceptable shoe that is of satisfactory construction and is quite affordable for those who are just starting out. Sometimes good examples of these shoes can be found on ebay for a reasonable cost. These shoes would probably be good for those who are not on their feet all day. The Allen Edmonds Park Avenue is more expensive, but is of better construction. The cork can make a substantial difference. These shoes are good for those who are on their feet alot. One can often find good examples of these shoes on ebay at a reasonable cost. The bonus with the Allen Edmonds shoes is that they are often worth repairing when the time comes. This may not always be the case with some of the Johnston & Murphy shoes though the Melton that you showed in the video can be resoled.
There is one style of Allen Edmonds shoes that is certainly worth mentioning. It is the "Leeds" oxford blucher type shoe. It is well construction and it is good for large men and those who are on their feet all or most of the day. Though the styling is plain, the "Leeds" goes with practically anything. Not only can it be used as a dress shoe, it can also be used as a causal shoe. The other nice thing with the "Leeds" is that the heel was relatively wide (like those of many older wingtip shoes) and this may help to keep the foot stable. This shoe might be good for those with certain foot issues (excess pronation for example) even if orthotics need to be used. It is probably best to get the "Leeds" with the leather soles and to make the soles last, use a protective rubber piece on them. Not sure how these shoes are with the Danite soles.
I might want to contact you directly. Do you have contact information available such as Email or facebook.
I’m so sorry for missing this comment! Thanks for your input. My email is robertpowers1972@ gmail dot com.
Hey Robert! I hope you treat yourself to a pair of Grant Stone shoes sooner rather than later. Thanks for the video!
If you’re able to go to both physical stores on the same day and try on their shoes, your eyes and feet will definitely tell you which shoe company is superior.
I just picked up a pair of Johnston & Murphy cap toe Oxford @ Goodwill for $25.
They are in excellent condition.
Not sure what model number they are but they are non shiny material.
The insole is black with royal blue outline. They look better than either of the shoes you are reviewing. Esthetic for perspective purposes.
Here’s an idea for a video. Could you talk about a pair of shoes which you’ve changed your opinion on. More specifically a pair of shoes that were hard to fall in love with in the first year or two of ownership but gradually started winning you over?
Public Piper 🤔 that’s a good idea... I’ll have to let that idea simmer to see if I have such a case!
I just bought a gently used JM loafer off ebay for 50 bucks...looks quality made havnt got it yet
Johnston & Murphy are the reason I began buying AE. I was at a wedding and the welt on my black J & M cap toe derbies (I believe McClains but it may have been a cheaper model) began pulling up at their 270 degree instep end. I thought that looked awful so I held my breath and pulled it off all the way around. Stitching on the welt was faux--the welt was just glued down and the glue had started to fail. Shoe sans welt held together and I faked it through the rest of the funeral (I doubt anyone noticed) but I decided, "never again". Replaced with Boulevards and not looking back.
It’s getting harder to tell today. I have another video just on that subject as a result, “How to spot fake sole stitching.”
Excellent vid by the legendary Robert "Cobbler Bob" Powers
It's a such a shame, but until a few years ago J&M had a USA-made "Crown Aristocraft" line of shoes. Within this line was a captoe oxford called the Georgetown II, which was traditionally made (i.e., with cork and no foam) and arguably superior to the AE Park Avenue from what I read.
I would go from "arguably" superior to superior to the AE Park Ave. It was a stellar piece of craftsmanship that is sadly a thing of the past.
Im am AE guy. Have about 6 pairs of them but just bought a wing tip boot from JM and im pleasantly surprise
great explanation Robert! I have way too many shoes and boots as you! John Lobb Allen Green Ferragamo Gaziano & Girling even full alligator and I have never paid more than $200 for any of them all with boxes and near unworn Ebay if you have patience is fantastic way to experience high quality shoes at made in china prices! cheers from Salt Lake City!
Wow, you got some tea quality pieces at great prices! My wide feet limits what I can bid on, but also limits what others will bid on once I do find a desirable offering.
@@CobblerBob if you wear 8 8.5 theres always good deals its taken me about 10 yrs of collective though but I have enough shoes 35 pairs of shoes and 20 pairs of boots to last me the rest of my life! I NEED TO STOP! 😫 I am sure you feel the same! Lol I started watching your uploads nearly 5 years ago when you first started uploading just realized your from Ohio I lived in Cincinnati back in the 90s great memories! Keep up your awesome videos!!!!!!
Very very useful
You get what you pay for. There’s a reason the J&M is cheaper than AE. I’m not a purist and I don’t buy shoes to keep forever. After a couple years of regular use I get rid of them. So to me, for the price point, the J&M quality is acceptable.
Absolutely valid. As long as we know what we’re getting for our money!
Imo it comes down to how many times you will wear them. For everyday work then the A E's would be the choice. But for the occasional wear (weddings and funerals) the j&m's should last you years with a pair of shoe trees and a polish after every use. Just my 3inflatt
J&M stands out well ! Such class!
Thirty years ago, purchased several Johnson & Murphy shoes made in the USA 🇺🇸 for weekly in and out carpets office. As well in the winter snow, icy, rain, etc. but took cared well each used. Did sent back to company for replaced outsoles due to normal wears on the bottoms. The shoe sales man told me every president of the United States used Johnson & Murphy.
Still have all those shoes and used for several times each years. Loved American Made Quality.
Allen Edmonds says every President up to Obama was inaugurated wearing Allen Edmonds.
I think yoi are running your show perfectly.
I prefer the Murphy's hands down!
me 2, I love the longer cap toe look and nobody can argue with a better price. If its good enough for the presidents of the united states its good enough for me. I do own a few allen edmonds loafers. The mercer street is a beautiful well made penny loafer.
Thursday cap toes....love them. Didnt like the way AE fit me. I have quite a few pairs on J&M, but prefer Thursday much more. I get most of my J&M less than $180
Very interesting, I have been looking to these two brands and wondering what was the difference, I think I am going to get one pair of each 😀
I’d love to see a longer term review of the new J&M Aristocrafts made overseas.
Recently I saw a video where Allen Edmonds also had corrected grain. Did you experience this? How to find out?
U P - Allen Edmonds has made shoes with corrected green leather, but I think that was only for a short period of time in the 1980s. If you look at their current ads, they say “premium calfskin leather upper.” If you talk to you an Allen Edmonds fitter at a store, it’s common knowledge they are full grain aniline weather. See my video m.czcams.com/video/AIPtVrHAqfM/video.html
And this one m.czcams.com/video/fJ8EQ3HnDj0/video.html
Once you learn the difference it’s not very difficult to spot corrected grain leather.
Great review, How often would you apply acetone to a shoe crack..?
Mr. M - acetone on a crack? I’ve never tried that. I don’t see how it would help!
@@CobblerBob Meant to say acetone on creases, there are videos on yt, But only work well for black colored calfskin.
@@stilesvideos I think you are referring to the videos removing the factory finish on shoes with acetone. Sometimes shoes come with a sprayed on factory finish that cracks so it makes it look as if the creases are deeper than they really are. So the answer to your question is: Acetone to remove actual creases? Never. Acetone to remove apparent creases which are really caused by superficial cracking of factory finish? Once, to remove the factory finish. Hope that helps.
ill give ya sub much more indepth than the usual stuff
Thank you sir!
@@CobblerBob you're very welcome keep up the good videos and be safe
I'd like to see you do an episode on spectator shoes.
alexe graser over the last few months I’ve really been thinking that I’d love to acquire a pair of black & white or brown & white wingtip spectators!
Robert Powers
Definitely a great classic look.
Still looking for information on how to find the best Allen Edmonds last for your feet . Any information or articles would be helpful.
spotsill I recently did a video review of the Acheson loafer, and in it I compare it (2042 last) to the 65 last. It might be of some benefit. I would block out some time if you can spend a couple hours to visit an Allen Edmonds store during a time they are typically not busy and try on several different lasts. Just be aware of shoes that put any pressure on odd areas. A poor fitting shoe will not hurt right away so leave them on for a while at the store if you can.
Robert Powers thanks! It is around a hundred miles to the nearest store but it might be worth a trip in the future.
For quality of the "old school", nothing imho beats Alden, some say they are too expensive but I like quality. I worked my way through school selling J&M before they became a global brand. The quality was equal to A&E. Now, the J&M outfit makes dreck. A&E goes "on sale" very often, their quality has gone to hell in the last 10 years.
Made in the USA is the right moved.
40 years ago, Norway made winter ❄️ jackets, they’re the best made jackets ever.
3M company made nice casual winter and rain jacket as well. It was $799.99 for nice rain/winter jacket in 1982 at high end store, I’d paid $375.99 when on sale in 1982 and lasting until 2018.
I work in the auto industry and am on my feet 10 plus hours a day. What shoe would you recommend for me?
A work boot to protect your toes.
“Auto industry” - is that car sales? That’s a tough question without more context of your budget, goals, etc. I’m so sorry for missing this comment by the way! Feel free to email me at robertpowers1972@gmail dot com.
2022 black friday AE oxford sale for 199, but you talk me out of it
Really? $199 is a bargain for AEs!!
About 10 years ago I went from Allen Edmunds (about $400/pair) to Johnston & Murphy (about $200/pair) shoes. Are the Allen Edmunds twice as good as Johnston & Murphy? Nope.
I don’t disagree with you, but a few things to remember:
1. Ignoring the AEs I got 2nd hand, I’ve never paid over $315 for new first quality AEs. I’ve paid $315, $245, $225, $97. I think you’re more likely these days to have a quality issue with AE than J&M.
2. J&M Aristocraft line ($280 full retail) used to be made in the US, but around late 2018 their production went overseas. Thanks for taking the time to comment! My objective was to help people not intimately familiar with both brands understand what indeed the differences are.
Would you recommend buying a pair of used Allen Edmonds shoes?
Absolutely. I’ve got about 6-7 pairs of pre-owned AEs I have gotten from eBay, etc. look for my video about buying Allen Edmonds on eBay
czcams.com/video/1Rcd6RSRtI4/video.html
@@CobblerBob Thanks so much! I just can't believe by buying used, you can access the type of quality reserved for the exclusive clients. I was looking for J&M but saw your review and saw that AE are the way to go.
@@CobblerBob Hi again, Thanks so much for your advise. I guess as one grows older, one's feet gets bigger since I no longer could fit in my 9.5 . With your videos and advice i was not only able to replace my shoes, but was also able to really upgrade the quality of the shoes pennies to the dollar! With the right tools of advice I was able to create a nice collection of shoes and also managed to work on my negotiation skills along the way. I look forward watching your videos. Thanks again!!
Are all J & M shoes the same kind of leather?
No, J&M has used all types of leather. They range from very low quality corrected grain, to very high quality full grain aniline. It all depends on the model you get. That’s why they have shoes from $60 up to $280.
I have both. Allen Edmonds is superior and better made. Worth the price.
Yeah I see it cobbler Bob knows the deal.
To be honest, i sometimes wear shoes on my bed.
What?
Comparing a $400 shoe to $179 shoe is like comparing apples with oranges. Compare the AE to a JM 275 shoe or the JM 400 shoe. Let's compare a chevy to a caddie. What would you expect?
Sorry if it came across wrong Alan, of course I was not expecting the lower price shoe to be as good as a higher priced one. My point was simply what are you getting for the extra money? The main reason I didn’t compare the Aristocraft line is I don’t have one to compare.
Thursday boots made park avenues once and was 200 bucks and had full grain leather and everything and goodyear welt and leather soles
Idk If the model is gone tho, but beats that trash J&M
But for 200 bucks still the thursday cadets work as a pretty close dress shoe, and you don't get garbage coated leather, both made in Mexico you be the judge
Also allen edmonds have NEVRR had quality control issues, it's had uneducated bad customers
I've personally bought two pairs of AEs, first quality with QC issues. I know they get a bad rap for things that aren't actually problems, but they DO in my opinion still have problems. Anyway, we can disagree without beind disagreable! I've never seen a pair of Thursday boots, and I'm not a big boot person, but people talk about them a lot.
$27 for those Allen Edmund's?
Yes, but they were definitely more misshapen and had no shine on them when I got them. I purchased them in mid to late 2017.
Those shoes are kind of rough. If mine had those kind of creasing issues I would replace them.
Exec, I’m assuming you’re referring to the Allen Edmonds? Remember, they were purchased as I believe I mentioned in the video from eBay for $27 or something like that. They were not new. They’re pretty old and well worn. But hey, a “good reason“ to spring for a nicer new pair, right? 😃
I did NOT put a rubber half soles on those J&Ms. I keep them shined up just for weddings & funerals because I think they look a little shinier, and the uppers are in better shape being fairly new.
I think the J&M look like rented prom shoes lol
It is inevitable...a pair of "corrected grain" leather shoes...will begin to "peel", at some point, making them look...well...horrible. I would much rather put that $179, Johnston and Murphy costs...towards a $300, (or even a $395), pair of "full grain" leather shoes. Or even better...do as you stated you did. Buy a used pair of "full grain" leather shoes...and just clean them, put a new sole on them, and shine them up. $27 for a pair of used full grain shoes, and add $150 for the re-soling...and you have only spent $177 dollars, for a pair of Allen Edmonds full grain leather shoes. A full $2 less than a pair of corrected grain Johnston and Murphy shoes. In my opinion...that is the better deal.
I agree!
GOOD DAY,
The optima / trampoline was a J& M . never used the full name for a reason. THE J&M was introduced to attract first time or younger Buyer or first time buyer so needed to be retroduction price. However younger buyers needed instant comfort. We changed insole from leather for price for and instant comfort the upper in the beginning was made in Mexico to reduce price for price reduction. The leather insole was changed for cost and instant comfort and named trampoline. The Johnston & Murphy was 100% USA and USA-made "Crown Aristocraft" line of shoes used Calf skin Italian leather. The Crown styles was the premium of all. The top styles used Italian calf skin leather.
When one reviews one needs to review apples to apples. YOUR VIDEO is factual except the comparison is not of same value or same cost because your taking the lower priced Johnston & Murphy that as labeled J&M to a premium Allen Edmonds
OPTIMA is a goodyear welt the difference is insole with added instant comfort features and as stated was a entry level style for the company.
the optima was introduced as stated! Was never intended or designed to be compared to Allen Edmonds. (NOTE- the company as well makes custom shoes designed for that person in the years i was there.
ACTUALLY REALLY ENJOYED and RESPECT YOUR REVIEW . I AM bias since i worked for Johnston & Murphy. i was and still proud to say we were the best at that time. i have lost contact with the company and their quality standards in China.
ON ISSUES.. yes optima as stated was a great shoe that delivered what marketing asked for . ... YES YOUR 100% CORRECT WHEN Johnston & Murphy down sized and went off shore.. . XXX for what ever the reason failed to maintain the standard of quality of USA my opinion. China does not have the history ./ experience in Goodyear welts as USA HAD AND HAS. J&M Similar to Florshiend history. MY history.. 1972 to 2021 footwear manufacturing world wide. I AM still in footwear manufacturing in 2021.
I was in manufacturing at the introduction of optima.. i know a little.. smile.
Allan Edmonds I admire for their commitment to make a premium footwear in USA! I have always admired and respected the manufacturing and people at Allan Edmonds. To maintain and pass on the craft of shoemaking is not easy-simple or cheap. TO BE BASIC knowledgeable - in the 70's was FIVE YEARS training -according to Brown Shoe out of St LOUIS. Shoemaking takes craftsmen a art that is being lost.
James, I just bought a pair of Made in USA Aristocraft Hyde Park IIs. We’re these made with full grain or CG?
Sounds like you are not impressed with J & M shoes, who makes a better shoe than Allen Edmunds?
Freddie, thank you for commenting. Just remember, this is comparing the Melton line from J&M to AE. I just happened to have 2 shoes here to compare. I wanted people to understand what the difference is and why one is over $100 more. The point of the video is not to put down J&M, as they have the Aristocraft line which is on par with or at times has been better than AE (or at least was when they were made in the USA… now that the Aristocraft line is made overseas I cannot vouch for their current quality). A better comparison might have been a $180 J&M Melton to a $280 J&M Aristocraft like the Hyde Park, but I don’t have an Aristocraft to show.
IMHO AEs quality has fallen in the last few years. There are a lot of companies that make a better shoe, such as Alden, but AEs value is that if you can get their shoes without major flaws, you’re getting a Goodyear Welted shoe made from full grain calfskin uppers, with the good construction discussed in the video, and in extra wide or narrow widths, with local stores, all for under $300. Aldens are probably their most direct competitor, but they are significantly more expensive. A few other high quality brands that come to mind are Mezlan, Magnanni, Ferragamo, Bruno Magli, Crockett & Jones, Edward Green, Gaziano & Girling, Church’s, John Lobb, etc.
If it's not Made in US, won't buy.
The Chinese/Indians can make higher quality shoes, but you have to pay the price for it,
Ravi Peiris M.D.
The Allen Edmonds sale is probably a factory second. I have purchased my first AE, very disappointing. Made in USA does not mean it is good. The tongue is stitched to the vamp. Ridiculous please stop advertising till they improve their quality. Thanks
Please remember a few things:
1. I make no money at this point from my CZcams channel and I’m not paid by Allen Edmonds. I therefore didn’t “advertise” anything, I’m just putting out info that I feel is helpful, in this case what is the difference...
2. Allen Edmonds quality IS an entire topic of discussion all of it’s own. Yes, I believe AE is having more quality issues than they did say pre-2017/2018 or so. In short, apparently the company has been sold twice in recent years, and has had some financial challenges, as well as in recent years, apparently trouble getting enough skilled factory operators. I also believe that because of the method of construction, they’re going to inherently have more quality challenges than cheaply made shoes too. Cheaper shoes require much less skilled labor, and use more artificial materials with less variation.
3. AE factory second shoes are always marked with a shoe shaped silhouette stamp on the sole in front of the heel. I have purchased factory first quality AE shoes at $245, $225, and even $97. All have been documented on my channel, and yes, I personally have had quality issues. One pair has loose grain leather. I had to send one pair back to be resoled when it was new bc the sole was stitched on poorly.
4. I have another video “Can Anyone Beat Allen Edmonds Value” video that talks a little bit about this and what their real value proposition is. Why don’t I just buy another brand, if I’ve had quality issues?
A. I have 3e width feet. Most brands don’t make wide sizes, and/or don’t have local stores I can try them on.
B. It’s hard to find a Goodyear Welted dress shoe made from full grain aniline leather for under $300.
If you’ve got more money to spend and wear more standard widths, yes, you can readily get a better GYW shoe. Maybe that’s better for you.
Again, I do these videos just to try and help people understand things a little better, but no one video is all-inclusive of the entire subject. Watch more of my content if you’d like. If you think my content doesn’t bring value, then that’s your choice too.
I hope that helps.
I am very sorry to got you upset. I did not mean any thing bad. By the way, I have ordered another 5 pairs. They are comfortable for sure when you get the right size. Appreciate your time replying. Thanks again
:)