How to Fix Sour Espresso
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2020
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What causes sour espresso shots? Sour espresso is something many beginner home baristas encounter when trying to dial in espresso for the first time. In this video, we'll cover one common misconception about sour espresso, and then give 3 tips on how to fix your brewing parameters to ensure that you are no longer getting sour shots.
#espresso #coffee
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Nailed it! Thanks for sharing these great tips on how to fix one of the most common issues that new (and old) home baristas struggle with
Flair 😍
Love you guys. Have the Flair Pro 2 and am absolutely infatuated. I use it more than my Barista Express. Love your customer care as well. Please don’t change like the others.
@@munkybiz9562 🥰 we'll keep at it
How important is heating the portafilter for a flair (pro 2) for lighter roasts?
Have gone as fine as I can, hot as I can get water and brew head, and pushed pulls to be as slow and long as I can, yet still more sour than what I tasted from the barista for certain lighter roasts, so am thinking it’s heat management at the portafilter or channeling...
@@JordanLassgoogle dont sleep on heating the portafilter, it has seriously upped my flair game.
First pick a recipe and stick with it. I use 16gr in and 32gr out as my baseline.
Get everything as hot as you can and start extracting right away.
Next make sure you're not having some sort of channeling, grind size is key here; if your screen fills out completely you're doing it right. A quick whisk with a wdt tool helps as well.
If you're able to nail time (40-50secs) and pressure (3 bar preinfusion + 8bar extraction) while keeping temperature and channeling under control, you're good.
Afterwards you can start messing around with brew ratio to suit your taste.
I would not mess around with dose until you're comfortable with everything else.
@@ChemistryLemur thanks for the info. I’ve played around a lot and agree the preheating the other pieces is key to getting a good extraction for the lighter roasts. Have pulled some phenomenal shots doing that since this post, although do not find it necessary for dark roasts. It’s a lot of process though with all the preheating. I’m intrigued by the new flair 58 but wouldn’t upgrade at this stage unless I could trade in on some way.
European coffee tour also released a great video on this yesterday.
I just absolutely hate how all modern coffee has this awful sourness in it. I want a coffee with absolutely minimal acidity.
I would recommend dark roasted coffee from Guatemala.
Or buy a 100% robusta. Not a mix with arabica.
fantastic video, you’ve come far in sharing the coffee knowledge, good stuff 👏🏼
Straight-to-the-point and easy-to-understand. Thank you. 👍
I have never scene so much value and accurate and helpful information in one video. Incredible job! Thank you
Really really well done, thank you!
Really nicely explained. Thank you 👊
3:35
Actually, Scott Rao had something to say about this as well, recommending that you do run the portafilter underneath water from the group head. Leftover coffee particles could be left within the basket's holes and rinsing it could help dislodge them. Although, he did mention as well to make sure to wipe it down dry afterwards.
Fantastic..thank you
Very informative
Really helpful. Thank you
Pulled an acidic shot this morning, so glad this video came out this morning. I increased the grinding to create a finer grind and the espresso tastes great! Thank you!
Are you confusing acidity with sour?
Yes another well made tutorial. The relationship with grind,dose,temperature, and contact time is crucial to making great coffee, no matter the method.
Great content!
Great video thx !
Love how you explain this. I love an espresso in the morning, but it's took some getting right. Recently, i've been grinding finer, and using 1:2 brew ratio + an extra 10 grams. It's really helped remove that sour taste.
acidic taste
The only problem with that is that 10extra grams mean loads more caffeine.😳
Thank ya! I was wondering why my espresso shots
Were sour!
Thank you! I think your first tip is perfect! I think i have been disagreeing with a coffee that isnt meant for espresso, and that i dont enjoy its perfect taste
You may have helped me out a lot. I just got a Barista Pro last week and although I was doing A LOT wrong at first I couldn't understand why no matter what I did/do my coffee is still sour! I actually think it's just the way those particular beans taste in espresso. So, now i'll be on the hunt for some beans with specific notes to HOPEFULLY bring me closer to what i'm hoping to make. Thanks...
Absolutely biggest factor!
Getting my Porta filter even just a little bit warm helped a ton
My shots always taste sour even when extracted nicely in 28s. Now I realise it may be the acidity in lighter roasts.
That’s why I personally prefer darker roasts!
You know what? Despite the acidity I sometimes crave its taste. I mainly use medium-dark roasts, but light roasts have a particular flavour which is absent in medium and, especially, dark roasts. That’s why I sometimes buy some good quality light roasts (Ethiopian) in small quantities (250gm).
Hoffman claims that adding sodium bicarbonate can lessen the acidity, but haven’t tried it myself really.
Try to raise up the brewing temperature if you can and increase the extraction time that will help reduce the acidity for lighter roasts.
Increase extraction time
I've been struggling a bit to get sweeter shots from my new Gaggia Classic Pro. Sometimes I hit thr nail on the head and others fail. I think the coffee was a little past its prime. Just got some red honey Tarrazu and when I opened the bag fruity aromas met my nose. I'll try that out in the morning and update.
I don’t know who this dude is. But breaking down the espresso formula the way he did allows things to just click in my head!! I’m ready to upgrade my espresso machine!
Lelit Victoria can’t wait to get you in my home!!
Woohoo!!!!
I want to see more like this. How do I compensate for not being able to adjust temperature up when using the lightest roast like Dapper & Wise Fruit Snacks Blend from Beanbox.com? I use a Breville Infuser which is a pre-2013 model that doesn't have temperature adjustment. Breville said it cannot be retrofitted with temperature adjustment.
Concerning brew ratio and sour shots in general, are you saying some coffees won't produce a well balanced shot at 1:2 brew ratios, such as the aforementioned Dapper & Wise Fruit Snacks Blend?
Great job! One thing I may not add cause it happens so rarely is to fresh of coffee. I roast myself and if I use that coffee I just roasted in a day or two I get super sour shots no matter what
Joey Varacalli, interesting. Do you notice this ‘freshness’ when coffee is coming out of the spouts? Are any bubbles there? Is the flow uneven?
manu you will notice that the crema is very over pronounced meaning a lot of crema. I mean the coffee has to be insanely fresh for this to happen but believe me you can tell when it happens. When I roast my beans I have found leaving them for about 7 days is good some people say espresso should sit for 14 days before use but I haven’t noticed a major difference between 7 and ten days. Check out my channel though if you have any specific videos you want me to make I’m glad to do it
Yes! Beans need up to 2 weeks after being roasted to offgas before they can be brewed at their best!
Also must be noted that the thermo jet Breville machines (Barista Touch, Barista Pro, Bambino Plus) needs the actual GROUP HEAD properly heated by running several blind shots through a dual wall basket before your first coffee shot.
Not really needed and kind of dangerous, 3 blind shots of 10 secs preinfusion with dual normal basket is enough, if you heat the PF too much the puck will measure 95ºC+/203ºF and could ruin the flavour. Those 3 secs will heat the cup meanwhile so you don't really "waste" the water
you had me at Talisker
Great video! But, you had me at peaty, smokey Islay scotch! 😍
Oh I'm right there with you! :)
Also a levelling tool is important to avoid channeling, which could make the shots sour aswell.....
I highly recommend WDT over levelling tools. Far more effective :)
The new bag of beans I got was roasted about 1 week ago (9/26/2022). Dark roast, 1400 m elevation in Guatemala, a note of dark chocolate and caramel. I increased the temperature to 201F, prolonged the ratio to 1:2.5, ground finer but still tasted the strong sourness and less body. How can I fix it…
How could i get rid of this weird new plastic taste in my small espresso machine i ran lots of water through and even cleaned it with the emtkalken and its still there if the machine sits for some time cuz im not home most of the time?
I thought increasing the temperature will easily result in a bit sour shots. This is true at least for dark roasts, which you say are anyway used more for espresso. If all papameters seems good with my coffee and it’s still a bit sour I lower the temperature a bit.
Lighter roasts benefit from higher temps.
do I need the best coffee machine like slayer or synesso in order to pull out the best espresso?
Depends what you define as "the best espresso" but in most peoples opinion, no, absolutely not!
Many prosumer level machines will get you 95% of the way to cafe quality coffee at home
What brand is the bottomless portafilter you use on the Breville ?
This one! czcams.com/video/LY4BTQPNFWo/video.html
for home, max:300 euros What do you suggest? before i buy delonghi ec685 and i dont like espresso from this machine...
I found that a sour espresso makes a tasty americano. Light to medium roast Kenyan beans
agreed. I always make americano from lighter roast
Yes!
I always make americanos so I “save” the sour shots by drinking them americano 😂
But man some extractions are bad.
@@joes.4149 i learnt this recently! Do not overfill ur basket and store your beans in the freezer. I pulling the best shot now more than ever👍
Thanks for the video! And what if the shot is super slow (I'm talking 40s to reach 18g in - 36g out) and still tastes painfully sour? The temperature is the highest the machine can reach. Is there a solution for that or the beans are just too light?
You could grind a touch coarser and change the recipe to balance it out. 18 in and 45 out. Try for more in the cup until you get bitterness then back off a bit.
Couldn't we also add higher tamping pressure and all the things we do to avoid channeling to this checklist?
Question- I bought some Volcanica Decaf (I can't drink regular coffee unfortunately) and when trying to brew 18 grams of espresso in to 36 grams out, it is way way way too sour- I have had to drop the grams down to 14, and up the output to 60 grams (2 ounces out) just to get it drinkable without the serious sour kick to it- Even at this ratio- the drink still has some sourness, BUT, it is more pleasant than face hurting- Why do i have to dilute it so much? Is it because it is Decaf? It's a medium roast - so it shouldn't be overly light/sour notes- Is it perhaps just a bad bag of beans? People seem to love the Volcanica decaf- though they brew it as coffee- as Espresso- it seems way too sour unless i dilute it a lot?
There are other ways to increase extraction other than brew ratio that you should consider. Primarily, grinding finder, and increasing the brew temperature if your machine allows
@@LifestyleLab_ Hello thanks for replying- I just dialed down the size grind to lowest one on my Sette 270- (Which is 1, with the microadjust all the way down to A, the finest setting)- Brand new grinder- the extraction was pretty hard, but it didn't choke the machine, and i got out 60 grams in around 35 seconds- I used the water straight off boil right as the rolling boiling stopped- I used 14 grams of coffee for this- and it was still a bit sour- I did another brew with 11 grams, and it is very drinkable now- at 60 grams out-
@@LifestyleLab_ the machine i have is a manual lever one- The Cafelat Robot- so i have to adjust water temp by boiling on stove- The temp when measured is right around 205 when i pour it into the portafilter
You could even go higher with the temperature if you're using a manual machine like that. 210 or 215. Because manual machines are so inefficient thermally, your actual brew temperature will be significantly lower.
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks- A Fella on CZcams did test the brew temps out of the Cafelat Robot, and it didn't drop significantly like it does with the flair or ROK because it's not pouring into thick metal portafilters which drains the heat- like those two have- But i will try a bit higher temp and see what happens-
I've always found that acidic coffee reminds me of yogurt rather than something like a lemon. So I'm looking for yogurt feelings rather than lemon feelings
Dude, where is this guys head?
Good video!
In our new videos ;)
@0:34 Oh dear, I am afraid your _head_ is a bit under-extracted… ;-)
And thank you for the tip concerning brew temperature. One degree Celsius more already made a huge difference, will increase even by two degrees to 95° C for this specific espresso coffee… I did not expect such an impact on its being too sour.
i'm using a cheap espresso machine and If i grind finer, i would get a proper yield and brew time BUT my pressure goes all the way up to 15 bar. Is that okay? or high pressure also causes sourness?
That is okay. That’s just the running pressure of your machine. It’s probably meant to run with pressurized baskets
What do you do when you reach that point where you can’t grind finer because it starts to channel too much? I tend to increase my dose, but even that doesn’t help sometimes. Anything else you can recommend using the flair 58 with dark roasted specialty coffee beans? How would pressure affect the taste?
👌
I love peaty smokey scotch but my sour espresso got me to this video lol
I put my temp at max, shot is way longer than 35s, still sournes, botomless porterfilter is ok, no chaneling to to fast etc..perfect and still soirness.. 1 weak old coffee damn it. But yeah medium roast.. modern "medium"
You’ve spoken about temperature and shot time, but the BIGGEST impact is brew ratio. What dose and yield are you aiming for???
The problem too many people reckon speciality median or even light roast coffee is good for espresso...
headless coffeeman
😎
I’m going on months and still bitter. I’ve done everything idk 🤷🏽♀️ at this point. I just got used to the bitter expresaos 😂 I do 16grams I get 34/36 out or more sometimes I’ve grind finer but then nothing comes out so can’t go finer on machine
Well if you’re tasting bitter, you don’t want to be going finer… you want to reduce extraction!
I pulled a sour one this morning but don’t understand why. I used 17.6g and pulled out 55 in 30 sec 😢 there was a lot of crema too but so sour
55g in 30 seconds is a quite fast flow rate. Grind a bit finer and make sure your portafilter is HOT before dosing and brewing
@@LifestyleLab_ thank you so much for replying and the tips I’ll try that!
A lot of beans used these days are just sour. Not acidic, there is a difference. I hate that it is so popular these days. I’m not into lattes, I just want black coffee.
Whisky is the best hobby 😋
Why not both? 🤷♂️
I've noticed, in spite of your very careful warning people are still using acidity and sour interchangeably.
This is my problem i have with my sage barista pro... :( hopefully i can learn how to get it right im about to throw it out the window...
You could throw it my way 😅
@@unknownmemoirs 😂 iwe bought other beans and now it tastes great 😁👌
17 grams in, 42.5 grams out in 30 seconds is my mantra.
I feel like going to arabica 100% is a good way
Tried everything? About to buy more equipment? Before going down that rabbit hole the secret is adding tsp of brown sugar. Cubano Style
Why should I not rinse my portafilter?
that would cool it down and we don't want that
Gordan Babić even under the same water u set for brewing?
LilKev that would probabily be OK :) ...
Pleaaaaaaase, turn the steamknob to it’s upright position.... 🤪🙈
I find naturals too sour for my tastes.
Bitter please.
I have a single origin arabica from Peru with caramel/ cholate notes if done turkish style on a classic pot over fire. It comes turkish grinded already, in an DeLoghi ECP35.31 it comes sour. I tried less pressing it , more pressing it, pre heating the machine, 15 seconds to 30 seconds, even 40 seconds, etc. No result. I tried Lavazza roasted, classic mainstream coffe, it also comes more sour than if done i a metal pot over fire... THinking tor eturn the machine.
Not the machine’s fault. The parameters you’re referring to are not relevant (shot time, tamping pressure, etc)
As shown in this video, you need to be looking at the brew ratio. IE, how many grams of ground coffee used vs how many grams of espresso out. If using pre-ground coffee, you also MUST use a pressurized filter basket.
The headless approach to the video is ridiculous
Well good thing we don’t do that anymore Tommy :) thanks for the comment.
@@LifestyleLab_ Atta boy!!
The talking sweater...
where did half his body go?
Hasn’t been like that for literally years. Check on in!
@LifestyleLab: "Parallels can be drawn to people who enjoy drinking scotch"
Literally everybody: Nobody enjoys drinking scotch... 😒
Why the headless speaker? So distracting- I can’t watch
Good thing we stopped this years ago…
Where is your face?!?!
In our more recent videos :)
I don’t like the headless look! Sorry!
Well good thing we haven’t done that in years. There were reasons.
How to fix ? Easy, stop buying light roast single origin to these hipster new wave roaster who don't know ANYTHING about espresso. Buy a good blend with at least 20% robusta and a proper roasting and you wont have sour espresso anymore...
I agreee
You do realize this was in the video right??
(Except said in a non-judgemental way, because shocker, people have different preferences)
@@LifestyleLab_ your "non judgemental way" was so PC that nobody hear you... Anyway my comment was not adressed to you, but to all the hipsters who make lemon juice and believe they invented Espresso.
@bretteur2legende same people who would likely call what you drink "charcoal". Neither is correct, drink what you like, don't judge those who don't 👍
@@LifestyleLab_in Italy there is an ISO norm to set the rules of Espresso. Just like in french cuisine, there is a little part of subjectivity but certain things are objective. Lemon juice and american New wave Espresso is objectively out of the right way to make an Espresso.