GAUGE THE ISSUE: The Strains Of Railway Preservation
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- čas přidán 8. 12. 2021
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IMO, that "they'd rather play with their phone than get dirty" comment illustrates one of the big issues, which is that there seems to be passive-aggressive attitude of mild contempt towards young people. I don't think I'd want to volunteer at a place that only wanted me around because I was useful and otherwise didn't like me much.
exactly. I'm more then willing to get dirty and do some hard work if it means it'll go towards a good cause for the preservation group but I'm not willing to give them my free time if all I'm going to be doing is cleaning toilets, mopping/sweeping floors or taking out the trash. If I ever become a volunteer I expect to be doing what I signed on for. Not being an unpaid janitor.
They treat doing anything on a mobile device as “playing.”
I’m in a long distance relationship. They’d view me sending my girlfriend some selfies to cheer her up after a rough day at work the same as me playing Pokémon go.
This kind of exchange is unfortunately my experience when volunteering at similar places. And I'm 40 years old!
I hope to volunteer for the RSPSI
I mean have a rota for the caretaker style jobs
There are so many reasons I left one railway and now work at another. But that clip of a driver putting lack of volunteers down to "mobile phone culture" is exactly the kind of patronising crap that puts people off. When it comes down to it, volunteers have been taken for granted for decades, and while recruitment is always a challenge, there are a lot of disenfranchised former volunteers out there.
He sounds full of himself
I agree with most of what you've said, though the main issue is time. I don't think younger people are less interested, just look at the interest in railway related content even on CZcams! There's plenty of rail related content that gets 1000's of views. Speaking from experience as a young(ish), working 40hr weeks is knackering, add to that the fact that retirement age is getting higher & people are now working multi jobs, the demands of society on people now is the real limiting factor. The only real solution to getting more people on heritage railways are out of our hands unfortunately. 4 day working weeks, lower retirement age, better wages etc etc.... If we had them, I think a lot more people would want to volunteer
I agree and a less old school attitudes to others
@barnabyjoy I mean, good for you but boasting about how many hours you do, how many jobs you have & how little sleep you get is kinda rhe problem? Wouldn't it be better if we say, fought for better wages & a higher living wage than spread ourselves thin between multi jobs like what your doing? I'm fighting for better wages any way, and I have to say that kind of lifestyle will catch up with you. Hate to sound morbid, but there's a reason life expectancy is decreasing in the West, people are literally working themselves to death.
@barnabyjoy no, that's not what I'm saying. I just realise (like the video says) that real material conditions faced by people today are driving away volunteers, so we need to at least try & address, otherwise things will get even worst. You are the exception to the rule & I applauded you for that, but not everyone has that level of commitment or will power that you have. Also why do you think heritage railways thrived when retirement age was in 50's instead of what were likely to see?
This is anything but excuses, I just recognise & know what we're up against. Accuse me of "socialist thinking" all you want, but my approach has gotten me a significant pay rise through working with my union & now I have the spare capital to not worry about as many things in my life. That means more free time, which means more time volunteering on my local railway (which I already did). I'm not having a go, I just want you to realise that an individualist way of looking at it isn't the way to go, and that there's real material reasons why there's a volunteer shortage, regardless of how you individually feel
@barnabyjoy There's nothing I don't disagree with there honestly, I just think (speaking from personal experience) that it is mainly the time/ money factor. I will admit I wasn't willing to get down & dirty at first, but when I was at a point in my life where I had not much to do & was really able to think about it (uni lol) I decided that what was more important was preserving the heritage. I do also think though that the parenting issue is a case of time & money, anecdotally I know far more families now where both parents work compared to when I was growing up, & I can't blame parents for taking the easy option. You do raise a good point though, about your paper route etc, there just doesn't seem to be the opportunities for younger people than there was years ago (sometimes for good reasons). This is a really difficult issue, but something does need to happen, since heritage brings in so much to the economy & if things don't change we could literally see railways close. Think some joined up thinking is needed, not just with rhe railways, but the heritage sector as a whole.
I agree with all of your points!
Honestly my biggest issue is the Ageism thing.
Every time I have approached a member of a railway about the idea of doing volunteering I'd always get the same impression which later generates a bitter sentiment.
I won't name people or railways, but I remember asking one station manager once why the platforms, it's rolling stock and locomotive fleet were all painted in BR era when everything there was made in the pre-grouping and grouping era,
His answer was: "Most of the volunteers who started all of this wanted it that way because that is how it was when we were younger"
I then replied: "That seems fair enough, Although I would love too see what a 1920s aesthetic would do for the railway, It's shame you don't have as many volunteers as you'd like too its a lovely place"
He then rather needlessly said: "Well it's not your railway is it? it's ours (meaning his generation) and we get to decide what we do with it." then added "And the trouble with getting volunteers is that youngsters these days don't like hard work."
I mean...I'm 24, I work for UPS I know what hard work is, But also I was mortified at this, Like there I was a paying customer, with no ill intentions being spoken down to by a manager merely because our age difference was a problem to him, I was preparing to ask him where I could get a sign up form, but after that I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
I'm no stranger to hard work, and if I'm honest I actually like it, it keeps me fit and helps stay positively engaged on a mental health basis. What I don't like, is when I'm prepared to give my best, only to be spoken down too or outright treated with contempt by my elders for either having different view points to them, or in many cases, merely not being part of boomer generation. Just because I'm younger than you, does not mean I am less capable of loving and caring something for historically important, than what you are.
You've hit the nail on the head CEG. Here in Australia it's the same dynamic. The biggest issue is as a young person you've got to do more than 40 hours a week (each) just to get by or go anywhere, whereas for previous generations, 40 hours (from one member of the family) was enough - of course there are those that piss their time away with vices (clubbing, smartphones), but even for the motivated, the strain of renting forever is real. To save for a low-middle end house would take 20 years of 100% of your wage for a low-middle income earner. For some, it's not because they don't want to, it's because they don't have the time.
Might I add those who wish to volunteer often get told that they have to commit to the hobby fully, and or told to go home. I was a volunteer at the Model Railway Group at Ferrymead in Christchurch who often had members in the Steam and Diesel Traction Groups of the "Full Scale" railway, and we found that unless you had skills they wanted or were willing to be there almost daily during summer, members were not welcoming to those who still had to work long hours or even could turn up a day in a month to help.
Some members also treat the railway as a professional job after retirement, and too often organisations are run by older members who seem to struggle to allow new members to join out of fear that we (the new members) will be taking over their jobs on the Railway if we get into running things. We struggled to get anything done through the committee until enough new members were on the committee to make those changes, which actually started to allow us to get members.
I've brought a new house in a new area after moving for work, but after 3 years being the sole earner in the house (even when NZ was relatively COVID Free), i've had to cut back on my own hobbies, travel, even having to manage finances to figure out which bill was being paid on each pay on a fairly decent wage. The wife is finally got a job to help out, but with costs rapidly increasing, i don't think i can even afford to make the trip up to the local railway to help, (let alone the model one) even if i wanted to.
@@NZHazard That sucks. Fortunately in Sydney, i'm part of a 1:87 scale club and a 5' gauge club. I'm time poor and fortunately both groups are understanding. In the 1:87 we used to have a junior group but this had to be 'amalgamated' (dissolved into the main) due to all the younger members going off to Uni and working a 996 timetable.
I think the same small minority do it as well for railway modelling
You don’t think that’s because your parents were happy with a 2 bedroom home, no garage, no en-suite and often weatherboard homes and their first house and work their way up as they earned more? Many estates in the 60’s rarely has sealed streets in the outer suburbs. I’ve listened to young couples walk through display homes today and I’m not surprised they can’t afford a home with what they think they are entitled to have in their first house. Watch their face if you suggest no en-suite, no WIR, no large kitchen with stone top and a 13sqn home with no garage - the look on their face is as if you had just asked to sh t in their pocket. In the 80’s it was 3 year’s before I could even afford a sealed driveway - oh yea that wasn’t standard either. All those extras have to be paid for!
@@andyrob3259 If I could new-build a "granny flat", I would - this is not made easy. And most people try to start with an apartments - still at least half a million a box.
I think one of the more, Pragmatic solutions, would be to take the approach the Army used to take with it's recruiting, in that, you offer kids coming from high school not only a chance to help on the railway, but also build up skills and qualifications too. Apprenticeships would do wonders. I mean, imagine a couple of years, working in a loco workshop, learning how to work a Lathe, make parts, service and maintain rolling stock. Plus, unlike the army, it has the added benefit of not being shot at, and no Drill Instructor trying to break you.
This will not work if there will be no other reward than skills gained or if the environment will not be at least tolerable for those people.
@@MrToradragon why not, people literally pay tens of thousands to go to College for effectively the same thing, plus they lack the practical experience and references that this would give.
Spot on with the time and money comments Chris. I used to volunteer on the NYMR before Covid, I gave it up because I was in a job where I worked six days a week for the majority of the time, and although I enjoyed being a loco cleaner immensely it got to the stage where I'd end up just too tired to function. I've since got a new job which means I've got more free time, but I'm stuck with a 50 mile commute every day. The NYMR is 1.5 hours away from me by car, so even going up there twice a month requires me to stretch what little spare cash I've got to cover fuel. I'm sure I'll get back there one day once the world stabilises!
From experience, I find the staffing issues in preservation to be issues brought on by mentality of existing staff, as you say, Chris, attitude from the "Old hats" can be very off putting, often driving away talented people. I work in a museum maintaining a Lionel train exhibit, the museum also has a functional Soo Line steam locomotive. Having past experience in preservation I applied to work with the engine's crew. I expected to start out with small tasks like sweeping the cab floor or cleaning the caboose interior. I was told I was not welcome because I am autisitc, the guy who owns the engine (The engine is housed in a museum but not owned by the museum) told me retards have no business around trains, even said he would sooner accept a woman volunteer than a retard. He got even more vile when I objected to being called a retard. I've since found out this is par for the course for them. Its bascially a good ole boys club. Yet they claim they always need more volunteers. On the flip side, when I was a teenager I volunteered at a large operating railroad museum. I was upfront about being disabled, my shop supervisor just chuckled and said "Half the guys here have the same thing" and assured me so long as I work hard and pay attention to the job I would do well. And sure enough, that is exactly how it went. Staff were happy, they were dedicated, and it showed through how well the museum ran. We put on a good show for the visitors, everyone did their part and was made to feel like any position, no matter how small, is an important contribution to the whole.
This is quite sad to hear, lucky my railway museum has a lot of anti discrimination paperwork you have to sign when you join, which prevents this kind of behaviour from going on here.
@@VT29steamtrain I don't really understand how it works, but the engine itself is owned by a small group of men, the museum it is housed in, has no ownership of the engine, and the group that owns it seems to be rather loosely formed, just a few guys that pooled their money to buy a steam engine and some old freight cars, so I figure thats how they get away with some of their statements and actions. Except they do get taxpayer money from the city to run it for local events. Come to think of it, the museum I volunteer at now, there was very little in the way of paperwork to volunteer there. Just some liability waivier, that was it. Engine aside, the museum staff is wonderful, our curator is a bit abrasive, but she has the best interest of the staff and visitors at heart. Plus sometimes I think she's just abrasive as a defense mechanism, she, like me, has spent much of her life in preservation, and from what little she has said about it, has had to put up with woman-bashing for the entire time.
This is extremely interesting as, being a so called “young person” myself it’s sad to see how many of us are uninterested in the railway and what it represents :/
Same here, in all honesty I can’t get away from the steam field. Although heritage steam vehicles are slightly different to the heritage railways it’s so easy to get into but the lack of interest from my age group is just disappointing because where would we be without this technology
A problem I've found has been that people's families haven't always been interested in railways before-hand. I'm lucky to be the third generation of railway lover, my dad and my grandpa both having been involved in heritage lines since the 80s. And its only possible by passing the interest down to your children, but if people don't have any children how do they expect there to be anyone to pass the handle onto for looking after heritage lines
Personally I prefer being outside of the mainstream hobbies wise. Do game but thats it
same
I would love to work for my local (KWVR)
I think its a beautiful railway and i never get bored. I have always wanted to volunteer and do my part, (despite what armchairs tell you about my generation, (honestly, you could to a GTI about that divide between younguns' and old timers!))
But the truth is, i don't have the time or money to do it.
To volunteer, i would need a full-time job to support travel costs, living, etc. And then i would have no time to volunteer.
Pretty much proves one of the problems highlighted in the editorial
@@ChristheXelent one thing i think needs to be mentioned is that, realistically there's nothing the heritage sector can do.
The issue is (as you highlighted) cost of living is going up, yet wages aren't. So the issue becomes dependent on decisions made by those who have no care whatsoever in the issue.
I know that feeling I would love to volunteer on my local hirtage railway the Yorkshire world's railway but a lack of transport and time and money stop me witch really stuck
@@ChristheXelent i really want to help but i live in Denmark so what can i do. Im 18 and want to help. I dont want to see the blue bell railway closing down.
There is a Londias ad which features a middle aged fellow and a young man as employees. Would that be like a heritage railway in regards to different generations
35 years ago me and my mate began volunteering at the nearest preserved railway. Our mums and dads kindly drove us up to the railway in the morning then picked us up in the evening. We were given very menial jobs but we loved every second of it. Once we were given the job of painting the frames of an Austerity 2-10-0 only to be told that we’d made a complete balls of it. And they were right. Basically they hated us but we were so addicted to the steam railway environment (sod ‘em!) that my mate ended up on the footplate roster on two railways and I got a job at the NRM in 1994. Life for us was pretty bloody stressful as teenagers. We had to pass those exams at school but we did it precisely *because* we were knee-deep in loco ash at the weekend, which gave us some balance in life. So I don’t buy all this “life is more difficult now for young people now. They don’t have time.” We didn’t have time for steam railway nonsense but we made time for it and our pushy parents realised it was something of value. It kept us all sane.
I get where you're coming from regarding volunteering being good for the soul, but unfortunately times are a little different after 35 years.
I remember taking my GCSEs in 2003 and only had to sit seven exams, after which I could leave. These days, kids have to sit more than three times as many exams and now HAVE to stay in a form of full-time education until they're 18. On top of that, those attending university are expected to pay around £27k in tuition fees over three years.
The cost of living has hardly frozen, neither have house prices. More are being backed into a corner over renting than buying. Yes, the idea of just being lazy and playing with a phone is a patronising one that puts people off coming in, but the fact is that not everybody is going to be in a position to volunteer due to their real world circumstances being very different to yours and mine.
Possibly relevant: Bowling Alone. All kinds of clubs and organizations are facing a crisis of recruitment right across the western world. I've read only the summary, but I intend to read the full thing soon.
It is interesting
When it came to heritage railways back in the day, whether one likes Thomas and Friends (and what it's become), the Rev. Awdry figured something out with the RWS, especially with how the Talyllyn was highlighted as the "Skarloey" railway. I don't know if there's a solution there, but as a comic book writer and artist I like to think there is- as I'm working on a graphic novel pitch for a narrative surrounding a fiction heritage railroad over here in the US, that maybe (if it ever gets off the ground) will inspire young people to get involved in preservation the same way other steam rail related media inspired previous generations.
That is what I think too
I wish you look
@@oscarosullivan4513 look at what? XD sorry, had to.
didn't High Iron do something like this
@@IndustrialParrot2816 idk.
But as far as I'm concerned, the more people making content related to rail preservation, the better the chance at getting young people involved
The junior program is what they do at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum, they have various summer camps for various age groups (most of them the kids go home in the evening) from 7-10, 10-12, 13-17, and one overnight camp for those 13-17. While I didn't attend them when I was a kid (largely because I didn't know about them) I do think they can be effective. I see a lot of younger guys in their late 20s at the footplate and as conductors.
I truly love this channel. I may not be British, or even work on the rail roads here in America, but I do love steam engines. I like learning about the issues, considering what you are saying, and having a good dream flex. Please keep doing what you were doing.
funny enough i fit that exact discription as well
I'm in the exact same boat! Although I'm worried about the impending effects of the Coal Crisis (and global warming), I truly do love steam engines. I want to spread the interest of steam to other young people, which would hopefully help to alleviate the shortage of volunteers.
@@jonahwillis2781 fortunitly the coalition for sustanible rail exist and these guys want to make steam carbon neutral
Ive always suggested for our railway to have more open days for technical colleges. Young tertiary students in the fields of machine shops or mechanics would be interested in going through our locomotive workshops and some may even become members
Personlly, from unfortunate experience, the older generation of railway staff needs to change their veiws drastically. I was driven away by from working on a railway by the appaling attitude of one of the drivers. Who spoke down to me like i was a piece of dirt on the bottom of his steel toecap boots. he made me cry in full view of the paying public and i havnt been back scince. And untill he leaves or changes his attitude, i never will return.
Completely different education methods
I totally understand. He had no right to treat you that way, and the railway has lost a good volunteer through their own actions. I had a similar experience. Most of the people I worked with were fine, in fact all of the older blokes were pretty much great, but there was just a minority of cocky younger gobshites who thought that they owned the place. They would point out every little mistake I made to everyone, "banter" at me then get all indignant when I would "banter back", and generally made me feel like shit. The last straw was when I messed up one morning and I apologised to one of the footplate crew and said I was sorry for my mistake. He said "yeah, you f*****g will be, screamed in my face, had a prolongued temper tantrum and rather than help me fix the problem, did it himself and dismissed me to a more low-level job. I was pretty angry and upset so I thought "bollocks to this, I don't like coming here anymore" and just upped and left.
Next year I will finely be able to start volunteering at my local heritage railway
As much as the 'play with their phone' comment isn't entirely true- indeed myself and several of my fellow volunteers are under 20 years of age - it does hold a lot of accuracy among the 99.9% of people. I even receive strange looks from passengers my age because I'm on the other side of the cab door, and that's half the issue in my mind. It's not just the matter of the effort involved, but there's the stigma of it all among younger people and their peers. The other half of it is that if you're not prepared to give up your time to volunteer on the sort of jobs you listed, it simply isn't for you. The reward comes from the work, and you put in the work because you want to be there. Sure, I'm happier on the footplate than I am in the ashpit, but that's what I signed up for, and I'm willing to make the commitment, which ultimately is what it all boils down to.
So a priest, rabbi and rail enthusiast go to a heritage railway, the enthusiast is a getting on the train but the priest and rabbi are just standing on the platform so he asks "Aren't you gonna get on the train" and they respond "We would, but there's no coaches from the GWR." (Gods Wonderful Railway)
Ooof!
A bishop died while waiting to photograph a steam engine in the 70’s
I’m my home town (NSW Australia) we have a roundhouse museum and the volunteer’s (Myself included) ask some of the schools if anyone is interested to do a variety of things, from cleaning, archiving to learning how to do bank allowances and working registers as not only helping preserve history but to learn some aspects of their future lifetime. Though thanks to COVID we haven’t been able to implement it properly.
In my experience, volunteering at a heritage railway as a teen is seen as uncool and weird, I've managed to muscle past the snide comments and little blue devil remarks but if its seen as lame to work on steam trains teens will avoid it like the plague.
Now this being said I have no good solution for it, but running Thomas The Tank Engine specials certainly isn't it! Also we need more ways for teenagers who are already into the hobby to get together, its always more fun with people your own age!
What is a blue devil remark
@@oscarosullivan4513 Thomas the tank engine remarks
@@johnkuzma7066 Likely got old within a day or two
@@oscarosullivan4513 yeah, it got old on the first one
You just need the right motivation. We got a 17yo who works on our largest loco as a fitter, and is rewarded by being on the footplate on the big runs on the main lines with the crew. Theres other HRs where im sure the older gens wouldnt let anyone onto "their" girls until theyve done 10 years working their way up. It puts off a lot of young ones
Like you said I think part of the issue tbh also has to do with oversaturation. Compared to any other nation on earth the UK has a huge amount of Heritage railways for such small areas. Like the Bluebell is a major player, but the Spa Valley and the Lavender line are both smaller railways located incredibly close by, oversaturating the market and voltunteer force across the many railways, causing crisis for all. I mean a lot of countries like the Netherlands to name one example has less than a dozen heritage railways nationwide. The huge quantity of locations in Britain is like a ticking time bomb in cases like this. At the same time there's also kind of the disparity of rolling stock. The UK across its many heritage railways has a MASSIVE amount of rolling stock, some of which is even taken from abroad, whereas many associations in Europe would be willing to do almost anything just to get a running steam engine at all. Like there's one line I know of in Denmark which only has 1 steam loco under their ownership and it needs a new boiler. The society can't afford a new boiler on their own, they have an aging volunteer force, plus they can't earn enough money with diesel services to both cover the existing overhead costs, and afford a new boiler. So its a tough situation for such societies.
But in general I think partially one thing to do would be to provide more engagement through the social media. And people like you and Lawrie especially are really good entry points for that.
I think its a death spiral
Thirty years ago Draper said it was all doom and gloom. An old article from the early 1970s said the same. Yet, here we are, with more lines than ever - but just the same problem that we always had.
The over saturation in some areas is something I have been looking at for a few years now with some areas of the country having what seems to be almost to many lines in close proximity. It would make sense to me to have lines work together in a volunteer exchange type way you mentioned the midland at butterley which has peak rail and ecclesbourne valley close by if they was able to work together and made a pool of people that could fill gaps in each others rosters. For example on a particular day/weekend the midland rly is short of a steam crew and peak rail is only running a diesel service there could be a crew available from peak rails roster who may otherwise not be doing anything else that particular weekend it would mean a joint effort in terms of training, rule books, etc. Which is where unfortunately in some cases the problems would arise due to differences on a personal level between individuals who would be making them decisions
I've been working with Steam engines since I was 11. I'm 30 now and I've stopped volunteering at my local railway because I found I was only getting grunt work and progression was bloody impossible.
I'd actually love to discuss this with someone like yourself as I have a few ideas how to retain volunteers.
A dogsbody
Thats cool. Im actually interested in volunteering myself. Could you explain what you do
@@RamanShrikant to be honest I'd encourage you to have a go at volunteering. Don't let my experience put you off. I've worked with other organisations (buses, trolleybuses, trains, steam ships, stationery engines, traction engines ) and most have been good. Just need to find the place that speaks with you.
Hit the nail on the head with this one imo. I used to volunteer many many years ago on the GCR till work started becoming a thing I needed to do. Something could be said with moving everyone to a 4 day week (with the same pay) as that would certainly free up peoples time more. Also maybe the railways should come together and offer free travel (or heavily discounted) on all heritage railways if you volunteer at one. Either way sometimes I do think about getting back into it as I would love to be a Gaurd but theres some things that put me off and If i'm not working I already have other things planned for my limited free time.
They do but it's not well known it's called a internal card and is run by the HRA (heritage railway association)
The pecking order thing is ridiculous.
The clique-y behaviour is ridiculous.
The division between groups is ridiculous.
On too many preserved railways, there are seasoned adults that behave like schoolchildren in a playground. Most, are welcoming, warm and friendly people. It’s the minority, displaying the behaviour that I called out as ridiculous, that ruin it for many others.
I’m not actively involved in a heritage railway, I’m too busy working on “the big railway”, including on my weekends. BUT I hear enough stories from those on the inside. Up and down the country and at different types of preserved railways, you often hear the same stories come out.
Heritage railways already have enough red tape preventing willing volunteers from getting involved, without childish behaviour from a minority of established volunteers.
I honestly think that a lot of preserved railways need to grow up and drop the clique-y behaviour, forget the pecking order giving youngsters all the undesirable jobs, ditch the discrimination and adapt to become more inviting to the youth of today.
For anyone here that wants to throw the term “armchair” at me, please go ahead. I work 70 hours or more a week, already driving trains. I’m lucky enough to have two local preserved railways, (both of which I’m a member of), both of which want me to come and drive for them, both of which understand why I can’t dedicate any more of my week to driving even more trains.
I 100 percent agree with you
I think you hit the nail on the head.
And especially since the steam preservation community is so small that the minority you mention is much more visible than it would be in a larger group.
Your assessment that they're being "childish" I wish the people who need to hear this could understand that they are being childish.... Possibly as a result in indulging in either recreating an era from their childhood's or at least when they were going people... And that it's just not appropriate for what, for better or for worse, are historical preservation societies that happen to have massive multi ton moving machines at their disposal.
@@TheGreyTurtleEntertainment I totally agree, I wish I had read this before posting my comments but you cover what I said in more detail.
I think this hits the nail on the head in many places. I've long wanted to at least have a go at volunteering, and have in the past at my local museum, but I'm also in a relationship, have friends and a tiring job which has stopped me from doing basically anything post-lockdown.
It's frustrating because I do love heritage railways, and if I lived closer to one I might well be there more often, but the museum I'm a part of only really deals in buses (which is no bad thing don't get me wrong!) and whilst they are fun it just doesn't grab my interest and passion in the same way.
To add to this, I've also given the idea of railways eventually folding into one another. There's plenty of railways that to some extent act as community assets that could one day transition into just another part of the big railway that exist along the permanent way of railways hoped to reopen in the future, and to an extent I don't think that's a bad thing. Realistically we will need to downsize at some point as a movement, so centralizing on some railways could really help to up the facilities available, but of course we're bound to lose some locomotives and stock along the way which will hurt. Add to that, I only really go to the East Lancs because it's the closest railway I can get to. The KWVR would be another option, but since I don't drive the cost to get up there would become absurd and the time taken just as much, and I think that touches on the issue that less local institutions will undoubtedly pull some away who don't have the means to travel to another line.
With all this said, I'm no expert and I won't pretend to be, so take all this with a bag of salt. These are just my thoughts based on my experiences with the hobby. It's a big part of my life, but for the most part it's playing second fiddle to my social and work commitments, and I tend to just express myself through games in regards to the hobby.
I'm 15 and next year I'll be 16, which means I'll be able to volunteer. Very much looking forward to it and I agree that it's sad to see not enough young people getting involved - but we are gonna have to find some way of continuing the running of heritage railways
As a former Volunteer on the SVR I used to enjoy volunteering as I worked on Bridgnorth MPD as a cleaner/firelighter, but work got in the way of things and also found myself being left out of conversations as people would turn there back to you to exclude you and being overlooked for sometimes newer volunteers when it came to going on Firing Courses so ultimately lost the enjoyment of the hobby.
That's a lot of my own experience. After 3 years of cleaning with most "fireman training" rosters being a cab ride the enjoyment died.
The svr line of promotion is pretty poor from what I understand of it. Bluebell is ddrver fireman cleaner on pretty much all turns. I always encourage the cleaner to fire, and build their skill set and hopefully give them the chance to think and make their own decisions. Nothing worse than being a firing robot. You don’t learn anything
I love railways and volunteered on the Bluebell railway as a member of station staff. But wile checking tickets I got hit by a member of the public when they tried to get past with out showing me a ticket. This was a full on face HIT! I went for help and no one was interested! The booking clark at the time said well what do you want me to do about it! I went around the staff room and cried. After some time went past about 30min some people did notice and the police were called and they did get the guy. As much as I love the Bluebell railway and steam trains I will never volunteer there again! Due to the lack of support I got that day!
I'm really sorry to here that :(
@@jonahwillis2781 Thank you.
Thank you,
I've seen so many old people complain that my generation is glued to Thier phones, when in fact they work there butt off to earn a somewhat living wage
I feel as some one that is young with phones you tune in and drop out after school, University, work
For me it's definitely between discrimination and time being, as the saying goes, money. I'd love to get involved with a heritage railway, but when it comes to doing work for free I don't think a passably comfortable working environment is an unreasonable standard to maintain. Unfortunately when it comes to being out there in the real world, more often than not appreciation of old locomotives and rolling stock means putting up with attitudes equally old-fashioned. There's only so much of oneself one can give away *in spite of* things.
I would say the Rail preservation society of Irelands worst are worst of the worst. Being based in south Antrim
@@oscarosullivan4513 what makes RPSI in particular an unpleasant place to volunteer?
Youth groups are the way forwards into getting young blood! At the gwsr, pretty much all our young volunteers were either youth group members or a relative of someone else or someone who volu teers on multiple railways.
I think there's a common misconception among the older generations that Millenial kids and younger (im a Millenial and I'm twenty bloody nine by the way) prefer online activities to how our parents spent their free time. I think this often isn't the case. In most towns and cities it is becoming harder and harder to find social activities, especially ones that are accessible on a budget and without a car. I think heritage railways need to consider what kind of social opportunities they're offering to young people, the chance to be a part of a group, etc. As well as access. I'd love to volunteer for the Watercress Line, but their base of operations is in Ropley, which I have no way of reaching in my current situation.
Yes, I would definitely say that the largest barrier to volunteering relates to time and money. Most people do not live a stone's throw away from their local heritage railway, so not only are they signing up for an extra day's work in addition to their jobs, but they must have appropriate transport to do it - which is why I've been out of the game for a couple of years. And many millennials are now having children, which makes taking an extra day away from their family even more challenging.
Steam is a passion of mine. Being away from the hobby is hard, and I dearly miss firing. But it's also an incredibly demanding hobby, and much more time-intensive than strolling around the corner to your local boxing gym for an hour a week or coming home after work to put in a couple of hours in Train Simulator. If it's a challenge for a relatively-well-paid dual-income-no-kids millennial like myself to find the time, then it's going to be even more of a challenge for those with children or who are doing shiftwork or graveyard shifts, to sacrifice an entire day for their passion.
Something no-one brings up about Private preservation: what if the owner dies and no-one is interested in continuing the entity? It will be shut down and the collection disintegrate, because no collector or other museum is ever going to be able, let alone willing, to buy the entire collection. The military museum at Mareeba, Melbourne Tank Museum, Ballyhooley Railway, Drage Airworld, all gone because no-one wanted to take over. Then there's the financial difficulties, which claimed such entities as Gosford Classic Cars (formerly Gosford Car Museum), which did some dodgy tax-related stuff and were dissembled by the ATO.
And I couldn't begin to guess what happened to the collection at the old marine facility at Kangaroo Point in Brisbane; I just know some of it is in the Maritime Museum now.
There was one collection which was run as a museum of military, railway and rural history, which collapsed when one day, the owner asked "wait - am I a hoarder?" (Apparently a main battle tank didn't spark joy). And so he got rid of the lot.
As for volunteering, I live on a casual job and a Disability Support Pension, so I do have some time I could be volunteering. But, the nearest heritage railway is over 220km away as the crow flies.
We should have a railway museum here, but no-one's doing anything about it.
Im only a 15 yeaar old
Aand im a volunteer at umgeni steam railway
Annd myy passion for stteam will never end
Im currently worrkingg hard to be fireman in the future
I’m not that old, but I’ve been a rail fan from a very young age. I still visit the North Yorkshire Moors Railway every once in a while, and although I don’t volunteer, I always buy things from the shops or try and donate to the works (hopefully my tiny contribution will get the Q6 up and running soon). Steam had already gone extinct on the mainline long before I was born, but that hasn’t stopped me. I would volunteer, but most of my nearest heritage lines are just a bit too far away.
I just had a look after this video at volunteering at my local.
I was thinking about it but even if it's just in the summer, I'd be glad to volunteer for a bit.
I volunteer with a heritage railroad in the states. I’m the youngest volunteer there and I’m in my early twenties. This is already a problem for us. Another volunteer was discussing this with me, and we’re gonna run out of people in another decade. I wish people my age would get out there and have fun the old fashioned way. I would rather volunteer with the railroad and have an awesome time there than play with my phone or go party all weekend.
youth clubs tend to work. theres one at nnr wich has been producing many volunteers for the railways future been going since the 70s
I suspect that some of the problem is not lack of time, nor of volunteering ability, but that of GETTING TO a H.R. Transport (and domestic fuel) costs are rising exponentially, whilst public services are falling off at a similar rate. In the majority of cases, you cannot catch a train to your nearest H.R. if you wanted to. (Unless you happen to live along said line!) So, travelling time and costs become a major factor in reducing the number of available bodies - both for visiting, and regular working at.
True, which is also why I'm baffled that even lines like the West somerset, Epping and Ongar, and Nene Valley, despite having tracks leading up to mainline stations in Taunton, Epping, and Peterborough respectively, don't use them and don't try to establish a connection to get to the heritage railway. I mean a heritage railway is a public transit museum, and not being able to get to one because there is no transit connecting to it is just plain ironic. I know some lines in my country like the Maribo-Bandholm museum railway connect directly with local trains and that some societies without their own tracks of course just run on the existing operating lines and they've been quite succesful. I just hope lines like the Keighley & Worth Valley, and Bodmin & Wenford to name 2 realise how lucky they are and can benefit from it.
a new gauge the issues came out?
Am I in heaven?
great video
Our line has the same issues but we solved a major one by making the society president be one of our 40yo members. Younger blood on top can help trickle new ideas and people in!
Like you say, it's complicated, heritage railways can't do anything about the wider societal issues like cost of living, and a lot of railways are just struggling to tread water to keep their current operation going that it's difficult to take time to think about and introduce new ventures. But one thing I think should be common at every railway is inviting people for a look on the Footplate at the terminus. It costs the railway nothing, as long as the timetable isn't too intensive there's time to allow it, and it can be the highlight of the day, especially for a young person just getting interested that could become the catalyst to them one day joining a railway as a volunteer (speaking from personal experience). No matter the size of the railway operation, that should be something every railway looks to offer
Well for me it’s just 2 problems that prevent me from volunteering at a heritage railway. One: distance, my nearest heritage railway is a good 25 kilometres away and for a 17 year old without a driver’s license never mind a car, it’s a bit inaccessible. The second thing is time. Currently 5 of the 7 days in my week go to school and work (I don’t work on Saturday and Sunday). I spend my weekend doing what I enjoy: trainspotting. I can do less of that but that really leaves one maybe 2 days in the week when I can volunteer. And when I’m 18 I will likely have even less time so for me it’s just not really doable. Tho because it’s my exam year I’ll likely be done with school by the beginning of June so I’ll see if I can help and if Arriva gets me there by bus at a reasonable price.
25 km is about hour and half on somehow average bike these days, unless you live in hilly area. But it still is time consuming.
Some of us want to work on the footplate the younger generation, but due to the age limits we get discouraged cause we have to wait. And in a few years of waiting they may lift it to 18 etc.
I think something being missed about "volunteer shortages" across the board (not just in railways, but also museums, charities, community events etc) is the fact that people are working longer before retiring. Gone are the days of retiring at 55 and spending 15 years volunteering before hanging up your hat (with the last few years being lighter duties as you approach 70)... instead people are retiring at nearly 70 and simply not feeling able to *start* volunteering
Volunteer shortages are a problem in the US as well. There isn't too much direct competition between railroad museums and preserved lines, but we're facing all of the other issues that you outlined. I am extremely lucky to have the time, money, and ability to drive 90 miles to the nearest railroad museum to volunteer. The biggest issue at our museum is we never have enough people to work on multiple projects at once. Our shop crew has been working on restoring a diesel electric locomotive, completing a 1472 day inspection of our steam locomotive, fixing track, and repairing equipment on the excursion trains when needed. Needless to say it's easy to overwhelm new recruits and drive them away when they can't see progress being made. My first day volunteering I was invited up in the cab of the locomotive for one of our excursion trains, and that experience stuck with me and made me come back the next week. If you're reading this and thinking about volunteering, please just try it once! Even though you are giving your time up, you gain knowledge and experience that you can keep for the rest of your life. I started volunteering in college and still enjoy every day of it 5 years later!
I remember when I was still a young train enthusiast, I was invited to ''assist'' (aka watch) the footplate workers. Man I loved the experience so much, and to be fair I still would love to work on a preservation line.
Great analysis, it's not just heritage railways. Its increasingly difficult to recruit and retain volunteers across the whole voluntary sector. Work pressures, increase in shift working and working hours are causing shortages. Also the retirement age has risen significantly over this time too.
I wish I had any sort of rail museum or heritage line near me, but even then as you’ve said, I really wouldn’t have the time or energy to volunteer doing anything, as much as I’d love to be even the smallest part of rail preservation.
Unfortunately a lot of the larger railways out there see their younger volunteers as unpaid labour for all the shit jobs that they can't get anyone else to do.
I believe on site accommodation could be a key for younger people I mean I don't live anywhere near a line and can't drive but if I knew I had somewhere to stay then at least I don't mind making the trip
For me I can't travel so far for a railway as much as I'd love to but I still hope to work on one later on
Totally agree
This is a worry of mine, the lack of fresh blood learning the skills of the older generation. The skills that are once gone are lost for good.
5:20 I felt this concerns me, I was a beginner member of heritage in locomotive yard as a cleaner, but the Forman said "Nothing is working out"
So offered me alternative roles, that I do not get any satisfaction from, so I reluctantly hand in my resignation.
Well done. The issues in the US are similar,as someone who is older I do see a bit of change. There seems to be a slow increase of women. This has long been a Neurodiverse (autism,ADHD) presence,I'll argue that it is only now that we are recognising it.
You know what would help us? More pacers in preservation
Reading the comments and thinking back to various conversations I've had with people recently, this all seems like the symptoms of a greed-driven and unsustainable society and sadly, I think it extends far beyond the heritage railway scene...
I've probably elaborated on this before, but I think shifts in perspective in how interest in railways is interpreted really is the way forward. You think about it: the common mind-set that interest in railways is mainly for men and the folk who spend their time working on these things is still prominent to some degree, and not really that far removed from how it was back in the days when steam was an everyday sight; even then the common belief was that it be for men and those who actually worked on railways for a living. It isn't strictly the rule of course, as both Germany and Japan have especially proven with their canny exploitations of trains in mainstream media, but due to the obvious language barrier such efforts are not appreciated enough out there.
Regards, Samuel Farris.
This points out excellently the issues that I think I'd face with joining a heritage railway, I'd love to try my hand at signalling but I just simply don't have time in the day what with education and a job, not to mention the volunteer sign up process seems extremely convoluted
Im 24, and do 45 hours a week at decently above minimum wage in NZ.
I have a friend, same age, who works 40 hours a week also at decently above min wage.
We are looking to rent together. We can only afford very small, two bedroom houses on our COMBINED wages.
I did some maths, on our COMBINED WAGES we couldn't afford to buy the cheapest house in the entire region.
Id love to go and volunteer at one of the few heritage railways we have here. But I just dont have the time, the money, or sometimes even the mental energy left after work to be able to do that.
I was planning to do my own series but it would be a waste of time but I decided to do it in the future
I mean I live in Ireland and the heritage lines scene here is all but non existent so idk much about it, but that whole 'phone culture comment' and 'they don't want to get their hands dirty'. Like? Tell us why SHOULD young people go into the heritage sector when they'll be met with disdain from ppl double or more their age complaining about how the 'youth of today is gone soft' and all that shite? That paired with the absolutely abysmal pay people are on and working themselves into an early grave with barely enough time left to sleep and money to get by its really no wonder. if the economic crisis wasn't as dire as it is and people could afford some spare time there would be more volunteers
I think it also doesn't help with how employers offer flexible contracts as that's the only option and result whoever does take such a job can't plan their free time
Yess Badger from the animals of Farthing Wood :D
A very relevant issue indeed I really appreciate the fact that you look at both sides, as a youth it is a genuine struggle to balance education and free time and Said free time is often occupied by uncontrollable circumstances :/
I am very lucky however to be able to volunteer at a heritage line.
Best laid plans of mice and men
This is a good take on the current situation of heritage railway. I started volunteering as a Loco Cleaner at the East Lancs Railway in April this year and I've been told all sorts about volunteers leaving because of X, Y, Z and struggling to get rosters covered. I've even seen Drivers acting as Fireman because of this shortage and I've even had to step up and act as Fireman myself when the one rostered didn't turn up. The heritage scene definitely needs more bums on seats, just need to find a balance of enthusiasm and willing to learn
I know this might look like a rant but I think all your points are accurate. You also have to look that there has been a shift away from Mon-Fri jobs to seven day per week shift patterns and thus limits people's opportunity to volunteer to run steam weekends.
Depressing isn’t it
I definitely understand that. I work so much and have very little time to even visit a train museum in Sacramento, California. Especially now days I’m a full time student, I don’t have the funds. :/ I do feel slightly guilty of not visiting or volunteer as much in the museum but I have focus on my life and hopefully it gets better. :/
Really good this Chris. Feel that to encourage young people and families, some railways can be TOO long. Thanks to Covid as well, what the general public want from a trip has changed, and they have become inflexible (personal experience) only some railways can fulfil. Example. A railway that has lots of stops to see different exhibitions can be restricted if they allocate a full compartment to a passenger who wants hop-on-hop-off.
1982 BBC Bristol "The Train Now Departing" has now departed. Wave it goodbye
mean i want to volunteer at heritage railways but my main issue is transport to get to them
Is it just me or does anyone else find this chap’s voice therapeutic?
A better idea than burning coal would be to burn wood chip pallets it’s more stainable than digging coal out of the ground because when a tree is cut down another one can be planted in it’s place meaning there’s an infinite source of fuel that can stainable if you keep planting the trees back after they have been cut down
Within reason. Trouble is, wood doesn't have the same combustion properties as coal. And burning 650 tons of coal a year nessecitates planting 750,000 trees to offset the carbon emissions
I know this is an old video, but a lot of the big issue with the younger crowd is the attitude of the older crowd who want to withhold or "Gatekeep" the knowledge of taking care of the machines.
I would like to say my perspective, on the issue from an american perspective...as a volinteer at my nearest herritage railway i tend to do whatever job needs helped with that i am qualified for....this can be anything from cleanomg the station and workshop, loading materials, decorating etc....most recently and currently im assisting in the giftshop while also keeping an eye on the station bathrooms and being the railway photographer for the polar express season...many people do need to realize that there is more going on then just working on the trains, cause while there are positions open on the trains you need to be qualified to do those jobs which i certainly am not at this time....however my railways main issues surround an aging board of directors that are too scared to try new things and are taking on more responsibilities of other board members who have passed on and waiting till the next board election instead of electing in someone new immediately to alleviate pressure....this tends to negatively impact the railway drastically....in the case of my railway i think its time some of the older board memebers not only stop taking on extra responsibilities poorly, but also step down from the board since if the railway is to survive we need new faces willing to try new things for the railway
I’ve been doing a LOT of firing turns in November and December and they are all steam lights events. It brings in a load of money but the turns themselves do feel like you’re working in a theme park. We’re still operating a railway but it’s harder to share out the footplate duties between driver fireman cleaner as there’s a lot less mileage going on. Which obviously makes the profits even greater as a normal 3 round trips is nearly 70 miles. We’re barely doing 20 miles per turn now. I really miss the damp winter months timetables and gaslit platform and probably not many punters. I can’t see those turns coming back tbh, not while the LED trains are so popular. So a s a volunteer I do it for fun. And of course ,I’ll do it for my railway. But there’s a point where it starts to become a bit of a thankless task. I’m not threatening to withdraw my labour but variety is the spice of life. And these turns are Groundhog Day. It’s not easy training a new raw cleaner to use a shovel, doing it in the dark really is pretty hard for them and me.
The lack of support for heritage railways atm is kinda disappointing.
I grew up in the 2000's when steam I didn't see it run till recently and I'll be gladly happy to be a ticket clerk . and footplate crew work sound interesting. yet I wouldn't want to start with it . and I saw pontypool and blaenavon railway steam weekend in August. I loved seeing steam run its worth every penny
From my perspective, the public perception of trainspotting (whilst on a low to begin with) is deteriorating rapidly thanks to a multitude of reasons. With less people in the hobby, those who are of a younger age who have that drive to get involved with these railways simply won't be able to cover the manpower required to keep the railways alive. In which case, our only hope for the heritage railways is to revive the hobby
It's odd you should post this now, as the same thoughts have been on my mind recently especially noting the lack of people about the last few times I was at Bewdley (Partly but not entirely down to the covid restrictions) I am always vey keen to let passengers have a look on the footplate, get them hooked as young as you can, and maybe get Mum / Dad interested too! It, Even if the people you invite up don't come back as volunteers, then hopefully they will return as passengers, which is what pays for our very expensive hobby.
I'm a big fan of junior sections too, the checks and paper work don't bother me, it's only the same as when I was a cub scout leader, but I can also see how it may put people off, and if we can harness that young energy, then the future is bright.
One of the sides I also try to encourage people on, is the social side of the railway, from my "Take a driver to the pub" philosophy if you want to learn, to visits to other railways to see what they do well, and if there are people of a similar mind there, how you can help the, improve too, to the totally non-railway related, team building activities and holidays with your mates, who all just happen to work on the railway which give people a sense of belonging, which is far more likely to keep people coming (In my opinion) on cold February mornings, than the love of trains.
As for sexism / racism or any other kind of ism, my responses to people I have heard making such comments can't be printed here, but I'll happily discuss off the record.
Interesting issues and views raised. Hopefully the preservation industry will survive and thrive.
On a personal note, I'm mid 30s, employed f/t, young family and mortgage... I would love to give my time as a volunteer, even doing the mundane tasks! - sadly time is a resource that I just don't have spare at this point in life.
The rising cost of living and later retirement ages are impacting a lot of voluntary work. Realistically I wont be able to retire until I'm 70. I was fortunate to be involved in a couple of railways for 5 years in my 20s. Being in the young demographic it was health and distance that were two big obstacles which unfortunately meant I had to stop.
I agree time or lack of it is a massive issue but now in my 30s I hope at some point to get back involved in the hobby soon. I might even persuade my wife to join me.
The other day I meet a man how had travelled 100miles to come to the 7 1\4 inch gauge railway I volunteer at and he was happy to come and help but they live to far away from us and any other museum railway or other type of railway to help them
I hope of they still want to volunteer time they can find some were
New gauge the issue this is gonna be great
Having a 4 day working week would help a lot
I’d say one of the best ways to get people interested is to use social media and advertising to get noticed. (Just an idea)
I really want to help but i live in Denmark so i cant help right now but im moving to England in the next 5 or 6 years so hopefully
Fewer longer heritage lines maybe with branchlines to serve close towns this allows the use of larger and smaller locos. Any maybe railways that actually run between major towns and cities or atleast start at 1 end.
God idea
Coming from someone who has a good number of local railways (stoke-on-trent) And from that illusive group you mentioned of young people working 40 hours a week to make ends meet, I know my specialty is in hospitality and that I would love to offer a hand to any of the ones in my area but working every weekend limits my ability to in the field I would excel for them, especially as in others I am rather lacking.
There should be a vollanteer openings section on the website, with photos of happy volunteers doing the thing in question, and what non money things people will get from doing it. It is after all, a free job. In essence, the railway needs to sell the job to the public to get them in the door.
To attract new volunteers I'd say use a variety of ways, no 'one-size-fits-all', but one big difference could be made by a massive marketing strategy aimed at people in engineering, in the national railway network, and at a wide variety of people, and pitch it as inspiring, fun, interesting, and most of all, worthwhile.
I'll also say that "friendly banter" is a bullshit excuse for folks to use because good workplaces have rules and training to deal with it, why not heritage railways? Mutual piss taking is all very well and good if it's good natured and friendly, but when it's one sided you can tell the difference. It's not always "misinterpretation", and it can drive people away. If they feel like their time is being given up only for them to be treated like shit, they'll walk and probably never come back. If it's a toxic work environment, that can be several people, and that'd be disastrous.
It does not help when you contact a railway to offer your services as a volunteer and they dont even respond ! It tends to put you off.
Incidentally, the link in the description to the presentation isn't working for me: it requires login.
I’m a college student living in the Bay Area of California I’m 20the cost of living is to high for someone my age to get by on my own. I volunteer at the railroad depot in my area and I want to volunteer at the Nile’s canyon railway but with lots of homework from my college and track and field practice I don’t have much of any time to volunteer at the tourist railroad.