Mikaela Shiffrin vs Viktoria Rebensburg GS Killington 2017 Technical Analysis
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 11. 2017
- www.reillymcglashan.com
Disclaimer:
This style of technical analysis is based around my own personal opinion. There are so many other aspects to this sport that would take hours of video to put into an analysis like this. I try to keep them as short as possible, with some basic ideas to help all levels of skiers. My comments are based on what I personally found interesting in the race and on what I think good skiing is or isn’t. There are many great things we can learn from the world’s best racers and apply them to our freeskiing. This series of analyzing WC skiers hopefully will help you understand the most important parts of technical skiing and how we can incorporate these techniques into our own personal skiing. Enjoy!
How to ski instructional videos please go to all access pass @ www.projectedproductions.com
If you enjoy and appreciate the content I put up, you can show your support and buy me a beer here: PayPal.Me/Reilly5
Want to ski with us? Visit:
www.hokkaidocollective.com
For more info on how to improve your skiing, follow the links below: www.projectedproductions.com Like us on Facebook!
/ reillymcglashanskier
/ projectedprod. .
Instagram:
@reilly_mcglashan
@Projectedproductions
@hokkaidocollective
To ski with me in the northern winter email rvmcglashan@gmail.com or
How to ski, Learning how to ski, Learn how to ski, Beginner ski lessons, Advanced ski lessons, Instructor training, private ski lessons, skiing tips, skiing lessons, ski lessons, ski lessons for beginners.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: Non paid
Volkl did send me these skis free of charge to test out for two weeks - Sport
This is the best movement analysis I have ever encountered. Even if it was done by an Aussie ski instructor. LOL
I was standing at the side of the course during the Vancouver Olympic men's GS. When Ted Ligety did his runs. I immediately had the thought--- that guy isn't going to win using that technique on this snow. And I was right. In 2010 Ted was the most active user of the sivot, and it just wasn't working on rain softened snow that no amount of salt could make perfect. The race course was set on an intermediate slope with a bit of terrain variation-- certainly no Solden. Not unlike Killilngton this November.
When the regulations were changed to mandate 35 meter radius skis, Ted had the foresight to go back to the drawing board and and completely re-invent his skiing. And the result is history. I have the impression that Marcel Hirscher had to go to the weight room and add about 15# of muscle before he started being competitive in GS. And if you look at Hirscher's GS style or that of Ted at his peak vs the best women of the past 5 years (particularly Anna Veith) it's almost as if they were in a different sport. A rather circular way of questioning whether purposeful sivoting has any place in the technique of a skier of Shiffren's size.
ps: Ironic that the FIS excuse for 35 meter skis was safety, when the torsional forces necessary to manage the beasts and ski like Ted Ligety are likely the cause of his ongoing back problems.
Good stuff... nice to see this kind of analysis from an instructor's perspective.
Love movement analysis! Especially that of some of the world’s best.
Thanks... will try and keep them coming!
Really informative and the depth analysis of the competitor's technique, just makes it so much more enjoyable.
Thank you and yeah pleases do more.
Great analysis. I like analysis style like yours.
Thanks will try and do more!
Thanks for he slow-mo analysis!
Finally saw this. Excellent! Vicky has such touch--I'd choose her in a GS show-down any day. And Mikaela's poised to consistently run the DH/SuperGs which best suit her. I think she's loaded for bear these next two seasons. The Olympics' importance are so overblown. She wants to nail 2 x Overall, 2 x Slalom, and at least 1 GS and maybe a SuperG globe. She's achieving artistic expression in her racing. Right there with Gut-Behrami's best SuperG runs. Man, women's alpine WC is a blast!!
Hi Reilly, this is great, thank you for taking the time. I would love to see your analysis of Shiffrin’s technique in the Slalom with a compare and contrast of her GS performance and boot setup.
OK cool. I will make a note of it and watch a few more races from her SL and GS when they happen this year and compile a bit of data to see how she changes through the winter as well. Thanks for the comment
Reilly mate! Great breakdown... looking forward to more. Hopefully she gets her boot situation sorted... Maybe she should be skiing the Dalbello KR with the lean adjusted forward + a booster strap?... or maybe she should be skiing in Dodge boots?
Probably blue langes ;) haha!
Nice review. The boot angle can be a double edge sword though. Close up the ankle and you can find yourself behind just as much as it being to open. It is hard to see where she is not behind the ski in almost every turn so you end up losing the option to roll and steer into that next turn.
I am using the same redster boots and my friends who have the boot are also having a tough time getting forward and are riding the tails
Reilly,
could you please make one with Sofia Goggia M.A.? I think She is great and could win lots in GS, maybe your analysing skills could help her getting better and us Italians understand why she stuff up so much!
thanks
Great analysis, would be good to have a side by side comparison/overlay too, but editing is time consuming! I'm thinking that shiffrin isn't as capable with the stivot turn and over compensates, plus the boot angle you mentioned. Would be great to see a breakdown of slalom too, especially ryding. Great videos, can't stop watching them!
I will try and keep them up to date as possible... If i figure out how to do a side by side I will give it a go! Dave is killing it now.. I love his skiing!
I hope he keeps getting the results, can't wait for the Olympics. He might even be smoother than you!
Mikaela is more of a slalom skier; she uses rebound to deflect mass laterally. She applies this in GS, which results in a stivot between the turns. She should be moving edge to edge more to round her turns. Ligety pushes with the uphill ski in to begin the carve early. Mikaela should be doing this, but my guess is that she isn't comfortable with the maneuver. You are right her boot angle could be limiting her aggression with push the uphill ski. My guess is that she prefers this angle and it is more comfortable due to her style.
The critique is quite insightful -just hard to say wha the reason was-I would put my money on the ski set up but you might have a pint as well-I am sure she and her coaches have a pretty good idea
Helpful? Yes, very much. Comments with a snip of regular speed then slowmo and stop frame make what you are pointing out understandable. There are lots of videos with great skiing and nonsense comments that are a waste of time. More videos like you have here would be grest.
Since you mentioned Rebensburg quicker edge transition later in the video... Comparing Rebensburg at 6:57 to Shiffrin in the same turn around :55... it does appear that Shiffrin takes a little longer to transition and has to redirect the skis and skid. To me it looks like Rebensburg holds her countered/low position jut a bit longer which results in the release starting later, but with more stored energy the release is much quicker and actually gets her to her new edge sooner.
That can definitely create a little more rebound and therefor make the transition faster.
Man this is super awesome! Any chance of doing it with some mogul skiiers as well?
Yeah mate! :) will do one on them... When is the next WC for moguls?
Nick Jones
Ruka, Finland Dec 9th!
OK cool. Will try and watch it :)
Nice Reilly also looks to me like Mikaela was going a little straighter at the gate as well which could force more skidding or the need to stivot. What do you think
Possibly... it is too hard to know unless you directly asked her yourself whether or not she was intentionally doing it... I just was trying to point out technical reasons that were prohibiting her from achieving early edging and carving from the top of the turn. She may well have decided to skid the turns, who knows... but the results speak for themselves. I think she will be back on form next race, she is too much of a competitor and athlete to not make these changes... see the SL? back in her old boots and made the changes and kicked butt, we will see her on form again next GS I would say...
I agree the first turn and many looked sort of like a stivot to me and as you point out the winner did a much better job of carving the whole turn a lot less spray and still she only lost by .25 it also looked like she wasn't able to flex the boot enough. I sort of missed what you were saying about it, it sounded like a technical fitting term which I am not familiar with.
Reilly mate, how can you tell she switched into the old boots? Cuff angle on TV?
I took a screen shot on my computer.
Reilly, Have you ever tuned your own skis?
You are a level 4, right? I saw something about it on another video. If you are, then that is very impressive.
Thanks Reilly - can you explain the boot setup issue? I didn't understand the "open" ankle reference.
Personally I think her cuff angle is too upright for her anatomy. An extra spoiler or increase in cuff angle somehow would be an interesting test to see if it helps her out. Does that make sense?
Perfectly - that's why she pushes the tail out at the start of the turn. I was thinking they may have done that for the snow conditions so that she could easily stivot due to the ice? But I would agree this was costing her time on every turn. BTY I have been using a lot of your videos the last 2 years and has been a tremendous help - thank you!
Thanks for the analysis. I have a question about Rebensburg's form: didn't Marcel HIrscher have the "flying outside hand" like Rebensburg ... except way more extreme? Clearly, she's compensating for her outside shoulder getting "out there." Is it a tactical decision to ski more aggressively? I'd appreciate your insights on this ...
Hi
I agree...verry nice subscribe of technic and failures...plese go on with mens racing...CONGRATS...You are the one...(y)
Thanks, I will do a mens technical analysis next time! :)
Reilly McGlashan Thanks...👌👌
I see a few scenarios worthy of mention... A.) Last year's and this year's Atomic Race boots (tho' some relative changes to design - not necessarily improvements) are a trial and error alignment nightmare. Optimal fit is eluding; and so is the upper cuff 'twist' outwards as canting in is performed. There is a lot of plastic thickness w/ geometry... so eventually the grinding, flex pattern, along with mitigating the high potentials for a duck-footed specific issue to this boot while doing this is part of the boot's set-up headaches. B.) GS ski Radius rule is still making GS look bad... that snow spray, stivot stuff is of course part of an interrupted arc or impatience to create angles/direction that the skier or ski may not want to perform by standing on it given a shorter radius turn to crank. C.) Killington while not the most demanding terrain... is a difficult hill to win and ski consistently on... That race hill favors a certain 'footed' skier over others (harder for right foot dominated people)... and a funny feel that you are never going fast enough so another cause for impatience. D.) I'd say given a mid-SL/GS radius like 17-18m ski and we would see a more fluid transition in all turning phases. GS regulation skis are simply not much fun for anyone to ski and are unforgiving for even the best of best. I like your channel and demo work.... I also know you are friends with one of my coaches from back in the day... Harald would agree with your alignment assessment as I do. Atomic boots are difficult (a lot of assessments, on hill time, and workmanship) even for the thinking skier/technician to get aligned correctly. Took me almost a whole season to get right... so I turned down this year's offering.
yes I agree there are many worthy notes to mention. The video would have been an hour on each if I wanted to get all the points across! haha... I just wanted to give two differences each and they were the most obvious to me where the time was lost. I have skied this course so many times as a kid I know the run very well, for the majority of the run it is definitely an arc to arc course.
A 18m radius GS ski would be too small for the current GS courses. The speed the top-level athletes carry in GS would be too much for such a short radius. 23-25m might be the ideal size (at least for the women; I am waiting to see how the men will handle the 30m in competition).
yeah 23-25 is a good radius for freeskiing long turns as well. :)
Here you assumptions regarding 18m radius would be 100% incorrect, and for that matter concerning all levels. It is about restrictions/regulations plainly and simply that dictate what radius top level GS skiers are having to compete with. Any course-setter of modern GS (set to regulations) also knows and sees this. It is why you play the radius card trumping length for junior athletes as well for turn progression and turn shape advantages. Same goes for skier-cross, master's race skis and demonstration clinicians. The Men will undoubtedly fair just a hair better than 35R skis because the GS setting regs have not been altered.
Yep... when ya have the room or speed freedom on hill to move and get the angles with energy out of the ski. That said you can see it in everyone's skiing that nearing 25R things are not as cool as with 17-20R... fine line there. Guys on previous 35R GS rarely had much fun... ya really had to focus while achieving angles plus being patient to a point... then may have to redirect in that uglish or unnatural flow.
I think your analysis of the performance is accurate. From listening to her talk about a lack of confidence in GS, and the probability that she is skiing for the overall title, maybe have her skiing conservatively at the top of the turn. I think you jump to a conclusion about her boot set up causing the pivot turn initiations, when the underlying challenge for her may be confidence
.
Whether her performance was a result of her confidence. Good performance or bad performance I still personally think her boot set up is too straight anyway.
But yes she was definitely looking tentative
Do you mean too vertically straight? looked to me like it was very vertical put her in the back seat could it be too stiff? you'd think not cuz they'd be on top of that ?
HH has mentioned her boot set up is somewhat compromised this season. Causing a A frame and she isn't aligned properly.
Jeffrey Tan we know HH is the man!
Yeah that was in her SL set up... She went back to her old boots yesterday for the SL...
On that second turn she is "drifting" same technique as car rally. She is doiing this on purpose. We use this technique in GS on steep and turny gates only. Doesn't look good but very efficient. Actualy many racers use that technic now but never on flat-med terrain or softer snow.
Yes I agree. There is a lot of tactic to being able to cut the line etc etc... This analysis though was made becase of her use of it on the flat section, which is why I talked about it. I didn't think someone of her skill would choose to do it on purpose on the flats. Thanks for the comment.
Too much weight on the new up-hill ski? if your skiddin, aren't you just pushing your heals out, rather than staying on your inside edge? Seems like she is putting her uphill ski down too early for the next turn, and not making a continues 'carving turn' - does she know the mantra 'pre-down unweight bend your kneez' ? :) just my thoughts...Maybe she is soo far ahead of the turn (in her mind) she is skidding just waiting to get there...
Are you coaching at that level?
WHat she is doing is a a "stivot" the men use it a lot where speeds are high or in very steep terrain where it is impossible to carve the entire turn. It's a pivot to a skid to an edge inegagement. Her problem this year has been timing of this tactic.
I agree. I never said in this video that stivoting doesn't happen (I actually said in the last part that one was deliberate and to disregard what I had said about the turn). My point was that Viktoria was able to carve more of the course than Mikaela for the reasons stated in the video. There is no denying that stivoting happen.
Yeah, definitely, stivotcis useful but not all the time. Looks like she’s overthinking the risk-reward (crash-not crash) situation before every turn resulting in being on the safe side all the time and overtime.
You must be a big Harald Harb fan. I know I am :)
HH is quite the specialist. I have learnt a lot of boot set up stuff from him!
With regards to the top of the turn comparisons, sorry but your conclusions are nonsense. Shiffrin is pivoting at the top of the turn and so trying to take a more direct route whereas Rebensburg is taking a more rounded line, both of which are tactical rather than technical. To say that Shiffrin was losing so much time by skidding too much at the top of every turn simply doesn't add up when you consider that Rebensberg only beat her by 0.26 seconds, plus that she beat everybody else in the race!
I repeat, at the level that these women ski, the difference was tactical rather than technical.
With the super aero helmet and goggles she needs to tuck the long hair in, again.
Firstttt 😂
second?
Reilly McGlashan yeaaa boi lol. Good video! I’d definitely love to see more of these. Taking my level 2 this year so I see it as good education for myself as well. :)
Yeah cool! thanks for the feedback. I will try and condense them even more to get the information out faster as well. Just gotta get the right format.
really...maybe next time you can be a forerunner
Too funny Australian Ski Instructor telling the Worlds best how to ski, Bulllaaa, Ski Instructors are the worst skiers here in Vail, My best ski buddies are from Melbourne and they do the same. I love it I love Australians tooo
LOL... i am not quite sure how to take your comment. This video is not a lesson. It is a technical analysis of where Viktoria was faster on this particular run and why... This is definitely not a lesson for these athletes... I am just helping people understand where time was lost on this run.
@@ReillyMcGlashan At least to me PanamaVail botched what was intended as a complement. It certainly was not a lesson for the athletes but very helpful for me and plenty of others. I'd like to see you quite your job and focus side by sides of slalom and GS runs.
Hey Reilly,
How many seconds out do you think you would have been at this women's race on this GS course at Killington? If you tell me how many FIS points you have in this discipline, I can venture a guess for you. Chances are you probably wouldn't even make it to the finish of Run 1, so perhaps showing a modicum of humility and some common sense, you might refrain from critiquing and analyzing the best skiers in the world because, let's face it, you haven't got the caliber! It would be the same as if you were to offer Opera Master Classes to the world's best opera singers. Impossible, untenable and embarrassing! Please stop.
LOL, the quintessential CZcams hater paradox comment.
So you are analyzing/judging me on whether or not I am capable of analyzing WC skiers? To ask your same question, “who the hell are you? And do you have the credentials to judge me?”
How contradictory does this sound?
Lucky for you I do not have the same beliefs as you to whether or not someone is capable of analyzing something even If they have never been at that top level themselves.
If the WC skiers abided by your own rule then the best would be without coaches. Most of the coaches according to you are unfit to be able to judge and analyze their own athletes. There are so many in this list but I will just name a few.
Marcel HIrscher - Coach - Dad who is a ski instructor. Never has, and never will be able to make a second run in the world cup. If I use your logic, he should not be coaching or analyzing any WC skiers.
Sasha Rearick - Head coach of the US ski team. Best FIS points were 110, but most were close to 160 FIS points, this would also never make it in top 60 WC. If I use your logic, he should not be coaching or analyzing any WC skiers either. Here is a link to his FIS bio for you to double check. data.fis-ski.com/dynamic/athlete-biography.html?sector=AL&competitorid=50111&type=result
Ivica Kostelic - Coach - Dad Ante Kostelic, who was actually a handball coach, nothing ski related, he was a highly successful ski coach. "Impossible, untenable and embarrassing! Please stop." He should not be coaching or analyzing any WC skiers?
Lara Gut - coach - Dad, not a ski racer. he should not be coaching or analyzing any WC skiers according to you?
Marc Girardelli - Coach was his Dad who was also not a world cup skier, or high level racer. "he hasn't got the caliber"
And for the most part, the most consistent coach for Mikaela has been her mom, who is just a ski instructor too. etc etc etc...
Just because someone doesn’t have sub 20 FIS points doesn’t mean that they cannot analyzing ski technique, and just for the record I was not criticizing anyone, this was an analysis on where I thought the time was either made up or lost between these two people. Being good at analyzing and coaching has nothing to do with how good that person is at that sport.
I usually don’t reply to utter stupidity like this but I felt it was needed to clarify a few things. If you don’t like my analysis, no problem, feel free to move along and you don’t need to watch them.
And by the way your analogy doesn't make any sense. I don’t sing, but my job actually is to analyse skiers and their techniques. Seriously? at least make an analogy that has some sense.
Jesus, you don’t see that ignorant a comment often. There is performance and then there is analysis. The points are valid and show that there is room for improvement at the highest level, and that’s exciting. Coaches don’t clock better times than their skiers, and you don’t have to be god almighty to critique a turn.
Ivan Basack You are quite the doofus to have made such a stupid comment.