Why INFJs Struggle to Speak their Thoughts
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
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Art: Sue Reed, 'Speaking Out No More Puritans' (extract), fineartamerica...
00:00 This video explores whether INFJs are good articulators and speakers, delving into the various subtypes of INFJs.
02:03 There are three qualitative subtypes of INFJs: Pure Processing INFJs, Analytical INFJs, and Proactive INFJs, each with different characteristics.
04:24 Proactive INFJs tend to be the best speakers and articulators among INFJs because of their well-developed Fe function.
06:23 INFJs' difficulty in expression is tied to their dominant Ni function, which often feels like they have knowledge but struggle to articulate it.
08:55 Authentic INFJs often hover just above the realm of complete intelligibility in their speech due to their experience of the elusive and unspeakable.
11:37 INFJs' ability to articulate depends on their subtype, with Pure Processing INFJs being more elusive and Proactive INFJs bridging the gap between thought and word more effectively.
Summary complete.
Thanks for doing this! Pinned.
Each time you spiral down to hell, the more fragmented you get, and the types become subtypes, and then the subtypes are subdivided, and so on. It’s the opposite of the path of integration.
I often have this big speech written in my head and nothing then comes out.
Also, I find pressure can make our brains go blank.
@@Coneman3 yes for sure
INFP SiTe moment, remembering a part of a book I read: (One of my favorite Typology books)
“The diffculty, of course, is that an INJ's Intuition often takes the type beyond the reach of an existing vocabulary. Consider again the joke about the surgeon's brother. It used to work because the word seen was synonymous with a male doctor. The idea that a surgeon might be someone's sister was beyond the reach of most people's expectations.
INJs are often frustrated by the limits of the language they're using to test the freight of their Intuitions-whether their means of expression involves the written word, mathematics, musical or scientific notation, metapsychology, or art. As they shift vantage points, they're obliged to invent new terms, reinterpret old ones, or use words like post-modern to avail themselves of the categories their Intuitions are pointing beyond.
One can see in Jung's body of work, for example, his long struggle to invent terms for what he Intuited about archaic levels of the human mind. Even when he had settled on words like archetype and collective unconscious, he spent the better part of his life attempting to work out their conceptual limits.” p. 228-229 Personality Type: An Owner’s Manual. By Lenore Thomson
I read somewhere the mind of an INFJ talking is like a PC with 100 windows open at once 😂
Depending on the group, discussion, or topic thereof, I tend to only say a small portion of my thoughts. I get what you said about the thoughts being just at the outer edge of complete understanding, and therefore, the speech isn't entirely coherent or congruent with the thought (I think that's what you said). That's kind of me. I tend to be better at expressing my thoughts in writing so I can take time to think them through. 😊
Personally I think that the reason why INFJ's can come out as incomprehensible sometimes has to do mainly with both confidence and support, if we are in an environment when people actively look down on us and ignore what we have to say, more than likely we will be less confident with our words. When you are in a better environment, most likely confidence rises and that then insinuates a more eloquent disposition rather than a nervous or incoherent one.
Hi Ren. As a child/teen/young adult/adult, I was never allowed to speak, because if I had been, those around me would have had to accept my humanity and existence. And they did not. "Mistakes" do not get a voice or humanity in my family, sad to say, it's the truth. I was the Mistake in my family, therefore, I could never speak.
When I got sober, I was told to shut up, sit down and never speak. I did that for many years. But my INFJ-ness was in full swing. I observed, listened, spoke very little but when I did speak, people perked up, and not necessarily in a good way. I was not/and still am not, very good in public speaking because without a script in front of me, I flounder. But if in a smaller group of people, I can nail you from 50 paces.
Many years into sobriety, I had had enough of the bullshit and subterfuge. And since none of my elders ever spoke in public, I decided I would. By then I had enough gathered information to nail everyone in a room, and so it began. I cannot walk cold into a situation and speak coherently. I need the observations, feelings and some time to ponder what I think needs to be said. I am much bolder now in calling a spade a spade with no regrets whatsoever. But that is learned behavior for me.
I don't waste my words any more. On anyone, for any reason. Because who really wants to hear truth spoken. Perish the thought. Unless I see a need to speak, I don't.
The Ni pause is so real. But I also see some xNTPs do this just not as frequently.
As someone who always has words, thoughts and images replaying in my head, I find it difficult to get my thoughts out. Especially during times of stress or when I'm still trying to piece things together. I find when I have to speak, less is more. I may not convey my entire thought but just enough to get what I need. It's usually up to the audience to process my words and understand which isn't always accurate but sometimes my words don't provide a solution but initiate reflection on the situation.
Interesting video! Prescience is indeed a feeling, a feeling, often, of that something will go wrong. It appears as if the INFJ really is able to forecast the future for prescience will always uncover some image from the unconscious or Self when the moment is there. Prescience knows that there is something that the INFJ needs to become aware of, but what this 'something' is, the moment he experiences prescience, he doesn't know. Consequently, life will fundamentally be experienced as being incomplete, unfulfilled, to the INFJ. According to Jung, individuation is a life-long process.
I often say in my mind comments I should write on videos but i don't write them, they just stay in my mind. 😂
As an ENTP, that sounds like an actual nightmare/fantasy/ impossibility
I realize I push words with my mind, not necessarily easily speak them. If I can run through the gist of what I want to say in advance, it helps ease anxiety and promote the flow of words. A job asked me to create speaking lecture videos for continuing education… at 37 there is no way I could do that comfortably even though I showed my Supervisor I was able speak/present well previously. She probably would have had better luck telling me I HAVE to do it or they really need me to do it rather than ask.
A favorite pastime of mine is to use grunts and inferences with gestures to communicate and for my partner to guess what I said/meant. I don’t believe we always need words to communicate. INFJs has had to develope very loose and broad/vague ways for communicating as they can’t always compete for air time against other more outwardly spoken types. An INFJ might have grown up with extroverted siblings or parents who didn’t let you get a word in edgewise so while they had all the air time to tell stories lasting hours we had to get good at speaking bluntly, direct and encompassing entire concepts in just a few words or sentences to be heard.
Oh and I think of what people will say in advance and prepare a response but normally I can't speak with eloquence unless I've prepared a speech.
Damn bro this is fascinating to read 😂
For me, trying to push the words is the second step. The first step is translating the visual pictures in my mind to words. Only then, can I attempt to articulate.
If you can simultaneously entertain 2 or 3 different sides of an issue, it's hard to convey your thoughts with any sort of nuance.
My thoughts are the stereotypical "big picture". It's hard to articulate said picture, especially for a sensor to comprehend. Most of the time there's discrepancies between others and myself when communicating. I feel like I have to dumb down or put in poor layman's terms for them to understand me.
Another INFJ from Ireland! I am too 😂 Anyway, I struggle with speaking in person, for many reasons. I have severe social anxiety, and other childhood traumas, that make it hard for me to talk to people at all. I also feel like language as a whole is far too limited, because words can't exactly express emotions, feelings, and thoughts. No matter what words I use, people will never fully see and understand it from my perspective. The words I use will mean one thing to me, and something else to them. People will misinterpret what I say, or misinterpret my intentions.
I wish we had full telepathy. Not just the ability to transmit thoughts, but the emotions and the intentions that go along with them. No words needed. I want people to fully understand me, as I am, not as who I appear to be after being filtered through someone else's experiences and belief systems.
I think it's common for all introverts (not just INFJs). World retrieval is often difficult as introverts rely on long term memory as opposed to short term one.
Plus introverts are more prone to anxiety. When our social battery is low it's going to be more difficult to focus on conversations.
Hence why introverts naturally prefer writing as different parts of the brain are being used.
Personally, a disconnect between thought/written expression and spoken words has been an ongoing source of frustration.
It is important for me to communicate well, and I do get self-judgmental when this doesn't happen. I know my command of
my language is more than adequate, but a hyper awareness or concern or fear that my words are not being heard as intended
seems to creep into my "art" of speaking. This could easily be attributed to simple vanity or low self esteem, but there is
something else as well. I'll call it "over emphasized empathy". Where I'm extremely vigilant of feedback as I speak, and quite
often unhappy with what I sense from the listener. This seems to cause a shift in focus from my expressions to the effect
they're having and the result is often to squelch a natural flow of language...Does this make sense to any else?
I'm probably 'proactive' from your descriptions. I can communicate very well, and in fact get kudos for it in my work reviews. Definitely can those 'E' speaking behaviors as required.
I met an Ni archetype/character, in a dream recently, Ni alone doesn't speak, keep his thoughts, ideas, insights for himself, share nothing,
and it's frustrating when we are on the other side, when we want to know what Ni dom have in their mind.
_I doubt by default, we don't want to say wrong things
_Often I prefer to be sure at 200% before to say something.
_We think to the consequences of our actions and words before to say them, not sure if we should speak or not.
_Put the right word on the thought is not always easy
_the blank when we think to so much things in same time, after we need time to remake the connections/bridges to re find what we wanted to say initially.
We are forced to Fe Se, or Te Se to speak, it require efforts, energy to do it.
My default mode : I don't speak, I am not social 😆
Also , I can waste unnecessary time hunting for that perfect word to use in conversation, when using simple words will suffice. It goes against my Ni pride to forgo the perfect delivery , but it's a tendency I have learned, must be sacrificed , at times
I feel far more comfortable writing than speaking.
You had me with the title. Having had unfruitful and frustrating arguments online with an ENTP, it’s clear we have very different thought processes to them. Too much logic or feelings is imo a cognitive weakness. Even Ne is limited compared to Ni imo.
My experience is that we often can sense when there is more to something, not only in terms of seeing what is not so obvious, but what can only be revealed by further thinking. The hun he’s, the feelings which defy definition. This is one way that what we sense cannot be immediately verbalised. We only have a very basic and rough idea of what it is we sense, and what needs to be discovered. I think some people devalue Ni as being good at seeing universal understanding at the expense of nuance, but I think this is wrong. We seek patterns and understanding of whole, mainly because this has the most use.
I think this perception of missing pieces to an overall picture is very rare. I’ve found in my own writing that only exploration can often unearth new insights which remain elusive by other methods. It’s a bit like the creative processes in art, which have no exact understanding of what they will end up with.
I also think this ‘knowing’ that there are missing pieces is why we are not great debaters and can’t think quickly like some other types. To see deeply requires a certain mind which is not so well attuned to everyday tasks. It is also because of this that we are often understood by others and are only given rightful credit when we realise things using this mindset.
Me: "does this word which I just used actually exist? O well, now it does 😊"
As my experience as an INFJ, growing up as a child, a lot of adults accused me of “lying” or “hiding something” from them when they ask me questions. This has grown into a “problem” because they would attack my parents for this. Instead of my parents getting mad at me, they told these people that I “think before I speak” because I want to make sure that they get the proper answer to these questions. Took me awhile but I eventually learned that other people don’t value the truth or correct information when they ask questions to me, they just want a quick “answer” instead to blame others, meanwhile I value honesty and correct information.
Idk how INTJs do this but I often view them as more articulate with words and more precise when it comes to communication with others. For me, it feels like FE tries to take over whenever NI is being used which is why the “feeling of knowing” comes up a lot and TI tries to figure it out but every time it does it “slips away” while SE isn’t being used and NI refuses to elaborate what it means.
Talking about limitations of words, apparently Shakespeare might be an INFJ and he invented a lot of words because he found language to be too restricting at the time and he wanted to communicate what he felt towards others. Imagine being so annoyed at not being able to communicate how you feel that you say “fuck it, I’ll invent new words to use and make it everyone’s problem,” that’s pretty much how we INFJs feel in a nutshell.
INTJ's have high Te which is an _extraverted_ orientated towards the thinking process, and thus this extraverted nature gives them quick and easy acces to directly communciate those thoughts communicate these thoughts with the rest of the world. Similarly INFJs have quick and easy acces to the external emotional realm with Fe, which allows them to quickly and easily relate to and communicate about the feeling realm in the external world.
However, they struggle more with the other function becasue of it's introverted nature of Fi (INTJ) and Ti (INFJ) in combination with having a very weak version of that same realm (T, F, S, N) function as their PoLR function ("weakest function"). INFJ's are PoLR Te, which explains their struggle with communicating thinking and INTJ's have POLR Fe, which explains their struggle to communicate thoughts in real time. However, both are interested in these realms because they still have the introverted version of the functions, but they are basically handicapped by only experiecing half of these realms (only the introverted version in this case) ,which means deep, but very slow and low in adaptability and communication ability.
Similarly ISP's and ISTP's struggle to communicate ideas with others (POLR Ne) and I imagine other Se polrs (INTP, INFP) like me will struggle more to real time interact with others in terms of things like physical motion. For example, when I do the dishwasher and someone else is in the kitchen and moving, I struggle to not bump into them as I can not quickly enough process the moving objects (people) in real time in order to adjust for this on time. This results in me prefering to do such activities alone, not so much becasue I enjoy doing them alone, but because the struggle of being slow feels annoying. I think this is why it's often said that INTJ's for example want to process their emotions alone, as they are not as good doing it together.
Just some thoughts!
@@PowerRedBullTypologyI never knew that Se users (dom/second) had issues with time and space, that bit was interesting since I often find you guys more proficient and more in tune with theirs and other peoples body movements as well as good time management. In my case as an INFJ I often found it hard to stay “in the present,” for me it’s like I wake up to see it’s 7 am and I blink once and it’s already 12 pm. Another one would be me having bruises or small cuts that I had no memory of hitting as well (it happens so often). So to read that SE users in the dom/second also have issues with SE is actually eye opening and shocking to be honest so thanks for telling me about that.
As for the INTJ thing, as I was writing this, I was thinking that it must’ve been their TE that helps them communicate but I wasn’t too sure and tbh I am a bit jealous of them for being able to communicate their NI better than INFJs can. They got their NI down to a science where as INFJs got their NI down to a crystal ball. Sadly I don’t come across INTJs much in my life, it’s mainly ENTPs/ INFPs/ENFPs that mainly find me but I often wonder if INTJs think about their NI counterparts because when I do come across one, I have good convos with them and often think highly of them.
@@NikoN-xw6xy I'm an INTP like like I said Se is the POLR function of INTP/INFP and thus are clumsy. The ISTP and ESTP obviously do not struggle with Se stuff like that. They of course do not struggle with it.
Do you know what POLR is = Point Of Least Resistance. it's a concept out of socionics. It's not valued and basically hardly registered. It's the same sort of function like the third, but then the other version (so introverted becomes extraverted and opposite). So entp has for example Fe as third, so you know then that Fi is their POLR function.
I guess prescience is present for INTJs too.
I experience it myself too quite frequently.
Absolutely. It’s a trait of both Ni-dom types.
I’m reading Chapter 2 of the Ecstatic Soul…love the book & encourage all to get a copy. Ren: Can an INFJ become conscious of SE & what are the consequences, good and bad?
I think an INFJ can improve their integration of Se to some extent. The consequence is better psychological balance (see also later chapters of the book). The negative has more to do with the fact that sometimes INFJs think they have integrated Se whereas they are in fact in the grip of Se, which can happen in periods of stress.
Thank you
I am an INFJ but I have very high skills in communicating either people.
The problem that I need to refrain myself is with the sea of NPCs - Non-Playing Characters walking around being like robots so much indoctrination than can’t even detect.
It’s like a subclass of humans.
So, you must communicate to them like they are kids.
I can write and give a beautiful speech but I'm not so good when it comes to expressing my feelings in interpersonal relationships when I need something. I can never expressing myself correctly and as such have resorted to writing how I feel first in a text and reading it to my hubby before I send it. My husband whatever type he is is hard to read, he's like how Bella was for Edward; if I could read him I wouldn't want him. Whatever he is he's rare too.
I've been a computer programmer since I was a child (implies analytical) but what you described in this video makes it sound like I'm pure processing. I looked through your videos, I couldn't find the one you were talking about where you describe these subtypes.😢
I guess it's worth noting I'm not a typical computer programmer. Somehow I just see behind the code to the larger systems at play. I haven't met many programmers like me and I've had to manage hundreds of them in my career.
❤
I want to understand, because I was gosthed by one of your people, and I just can’t understand why it’s so hard to just say something, anything, no thanks even for example , I’m qn entp and i just can’t understand silence tbh, and it has driven me mad , someone please explain so I can rest in peace 😢
(If you could possibly explain shortly too 😂) if you can , like to the point , In simple English 😅😂
Oh and I got extremely hurt by silence also, because i can process and understand literally anything, but silence?? How the fuck would I understand that, it’s just an infinite nightmare, no info comming out, nothing to procesa or understand just a void of maybes and aaaaaaaaaaaa
Hi Elena, not sure if the silence in question has to do with INFJ specifically in this case. It's hard to tell.