Antz vs. A Bug's Life: Who Loves Capitalism More?
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- čas přidán 30. 01. 2022
- Two films, two ants, two drastically different ideas.
Antz and A Bug's Life might blur in your memory as being relatively similar films that both weirdly came out in 1998. But what if they actually have substantially different messages? We'll explain in this Wisecrack Edition on Antz vs. A Bug's Life: Who Loves Capitalism More?
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Written by Logan Rees
Hosted by Michael Burns
Directed by Michael Luxemburg
Edited by William Schwartz
Produced by Olivia Redden & Evan Yee
Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound
#Antz #ABugsLife #wisecrack
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But A Bug's Life has that whole scene where Hopper is like, "Those puny little ants outnumber us 100 to 1, and if they ever figure that out, there goes our way of life!" I always think about that as a metaphor for anti-union capitalists who fear the workers realizing their collective strength.
Workers have no collective strength, they are inept illiterates with little to no coordinative ability lol. Worker's revolutions in general are a fairy tale, and only occur when they have institutional backing in the form of demagogic politicians taking advantage of the masses to usurp wealth from the merchant class; IE, what Putin did to the classical Oil oligarchs.
If the government remains null to the cries of the workers, literally nothing will change because they themselves have no power to enact anything; no matter how much they try to convince themselves otherwise.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no The boot can't send you nudes; you can stop licking.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no that's not true, and the worker resignation in the U.S is proof. We're not getting much but where I'm at businesses are so desperate for workers people are finally getting paid $20 an hour for jobs like pizza delivery, cleaning, etc. And I'm a PCA in a grouphome and my pay is now closer to $20. I'm only like 22 and this is my second job and it's actually livable. I remember working at 16 for like $10 an hour. It was miserable and I know I worked 10 times as hard for way less.. Take it from a farmer, I'm probably the inept stupid lower class you are talking about and I think we can make a difference.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no This is some protocols level crypto fascist bullshit.
Ah yes so, bezos is hopper
Parents: “why are the kids these days so political”
The Movies we grew up with:
Except all movies have a political message lmao not just the ones we grew up with.
@@user-th7nx9it3e Not all movies have a political message and I assure you before this video was made not many people were commenting on how A Bug’s Life has the influence of The Ayn Rand mindset nor was anyone commenting on The underlying equality of outcome Marx based mindset.
A Bugs Life & Antz seem to have an underlying economic & social ideas, A Bugs life more in the economical department since it focused a lot of innovation and advancement with the bugs and Antz more in the social political department since it had a pro equality of outcome message which is Marx like but no one was pointing out these things before this wisecrack video and these messages weren’t really that in your face in the films compared to the comedy, story and characters so in the end these films don’t reflect today’s overly political obsessions, that is due to kids getting into politics due to the mass propaganda of modern politics through media. That same media is the reason why this wisecrack video was even made as if politics were not so popular among the youth as they are now this video most likely wouldn’t have been made.
@@bendu8282 Literally all art has a political message.
@@user-th7nx9it3e What’s The Political message behind 60’s Batman Show?
What’s the political message behind Winnie The Pooh? How about Peter Pan, where is the politics in Peter Pan? Alice in Wonderland which is a take on madness itself where does any form of politics which require organization to fit in that story or even play an important role which is opposed to its take on insanity being the source of that imaginary world. How about The Big Bang Theory, what is the political message behind that show? Let’s go basic how about Toy Story where are the politics behind that film?
Politics is not as all reaching as people today think, it’s not like math or basic language so it’s not impossible to tell a story without politics or a story that doesn’t focus a lot on politics or doesn’t focus on politics at all for that matter. Entertainment needs basic factors in order to work like everything else but politics isn’t one of them. Politics is a topic that can be used in anything whether the execution is good or bad, but it’s a topic that can but doesn’t have to be touched on, topics are different from factors we need to function or understand how reality works like language to communicate or time to understand how day becomes night and vice versa. It’s also important to take into account how topics are handled. There is a difference between political themes in something and political propaganda. Antz has political themes subtle or not underneath the comedy, story and characters compared to today’s approach to politics in entertainment which is just propaganda heavy, Antz gives an idea and asks questions while today’s media would just shove things in your face and tell you what you should think, A bugs life on the other hand is more based on innovation , hard work and accomplishing your dreams despite the odds, it’s not that political compared to Antz and more based on your basic hero’s journey plot with some innovation themes and subtle economic messages in the back and it’s not capitalism based because the world of a Bug’s life just like Antz runs under a monarchy so capitalism in either film is irrelevant despite the metaphors they both have. In the end films like these can exist while films which aren’t political in any form can also exist because entertainment is the key when it comes to anything entertaining like a movie, book , show or game.
Growing up in Italy " a bugs life " has always been presented to me as an allegory to mafia, with the mafiosi beeing the grasshoppers
Exactly, I think the simplicity is overlooked
The organized crime mob/mafia metaphor is easier to find (more explicit?) than the colonizer metaphor; when Hopper is threatening to withdraw his "protection" from the ants, he brings out Thumper, the grasshopper who acts like Hopper's attack dog, as an implicit threat.
Bugs life is another rip off of the Seven Samurai. In Seven Samurai they try to protect the film against Bandits so I think comparison to Mafia works well
‘Beeing’ I see what you did there 👀
My older sister actually thought that the grasshoppers were reminicent to slave masters and the ant colony were the slaves. The worse part is that the ant colony doen't even know that they were slaves and thought that by gathering food for the grasshoppers that it means it's a diplomatic agreement.
I remember learning about the history of how that guy that went to Dreamworks with all the scripts for Disney future films in my cinema history class, it was hillarious!
Jeffrey Katzenberg?
who????
@@Therodinn the "K" in "Dreamworks SKG." The "S" is Spielberg and the "G" is Geffen.
If I remember correctly, there was already tension when other Disney big wigs didn't make him president which pissed off Katzenberg enough for him to bail with some scripts in the early/mid 90's (he had helped to revive the animation department at Disney after a really long slump).
Pretty soon after he, Spielberg and Geffen got a ton of money together and formed Dreamworks.
They didn't go to Disney, they went to Pixar. Pixar was and still is a separate studio from Disney, Disney has always distributed Pixar films.
Great discussion... I'll have to dig further into this on my own time.
What if Antz was a sequel to bugs life?
-Improved technology due to Fliks innovations.
-Investment in a stronger military without the Grasshoppers' protection.
-A stronger sense of colony identity as a response to the oppression of the Grasshoppers.
Yeah a lot of people would believe that considering the ants on a bug’s life do look like their from an older time in comparison to the modern lingo the ants have in Antz.
that does sound dialectically aligned
Who parks a trailer in the middle of Central Park?
@@BenHopkins1000 idk, sounds centrally parked to me
I’m all for it
Best line from Antz:
(When Z learns that the ants are marching into battle.)
Z: Hey, wait a minute. We’re being too hasty here. These guys sound like bruisers. Just how were you figuring on beating them?
Barbatus: Superior numbers, kid. Overwhelm their defenses, and kill their queen.
Z: Uh, hey fellas, that's... you're being a little extreme, I feel. Why don't, why don't, why don't we just try to influence their political process with campaign contributions?
This movie is basically a PG version of Starship Troopers, when you think about it….
"It's an ugly hive! A *termite* hive!"
Would you like to know more?
“What are you bitching about?” Actual best quote
Its starship troopers from the perspective of inhabitants of Klendathu. Heimlich is even the brain bug.
Would you like to know more?😮
Wrong. Starship troopers is about fascism. I have a theory on that movie: goes like this. In the movie we see a world of white supremacy across the universe. From planets with humans on them and a huge military presence in the movies settings. So my theory is that the Nazi won WW2 and in a weird alternate history. So how the Nazi made the killings reasonable to the world. Than world was turned into a Nazi paradise to mass genocide of the world. Only white skin men so they spend the world populating themselves around the world again. Interbreeding with other nations women to marry them. Making a Nazi vision of the future. Than in the future it got more progressive effort to start letting other races breed. As the world gets bigger with technology and taboos. So this world everyone is full or half white or to 80% white. That is what we see in the movie : Buenos Aires so I took that clue and what did I find?? Well back in WW2 alot of ex nazi soldiers and high ranking military personnel went to South America as Germany fell. That is why I think starship troops is actually a Nazi propaganda lol. But hey it’s just a theory
@@mrcooki3monster928 It's not a movie about *white supremacists* tho. It's just fascism but a fascism that has eliminated the divide between race, between sex and gender, in order to fulfill a single purpose: Domination. It's kind of insidious that way.
Race: We see non-white people characters in positions of power and as grunts
Gender and Sex: A woman is the high command leader, teachers, as well as a peek into the norms of society with the lockerroom scene. They all showered together and it doesn't really matter.
Bug's Life: Randian, anti-colonialist. Nationalist traditions.
Antz: Pro-labour, anti-capitalist with no clear end-goal in mind.
In a sense the same impulses are playing out now (with even bugs and antz agreeing the current system must go).
We see Neo-traditionalism as well as a return of class consciousness (and the attendant analysis paralysis), with a lack of thinking of what a future world might be (neither of the two).
In 'Antz', Lieutenant Cutter represents a Lawful Good form of nationalism, whereas General Mandible (basically Stalin) represents Lawful Evil imperialism. Also, it's Cutter, the nationalist, who rescues Z, the anarchist (after Z sacrifices himself to protect Cutter from Mandible). Perhaps the real message is that anarchists and nationalists should unite and destroy the Lawful Evil forces of "order" and oppression forever.
@@quintessenceSL Hegelian dialectic.
Bee Movie: Pro-Nationnalism and Mutinatiionalism (freedom for bees, but also cooperation with humans) pro labour but also pro work for works sake. pro enironment. Also, Pro-Jazz
Correction: "Colonel" Cutter
It is worth pointing out that the hierarchy in an ant colony, and perhaps the reason the allegory starts to falter, is a necessity, not a post hoc justification for the ruling class. In both movies, the queen is neither the problem, nor deposed. Why would they? They need her to continue as a colony. In both cases, from what I recall, the respective queens are just kinda there.
In Antz, she is the assassination target, but no part of the system that caused the dissatisfaction is directly tied to her. It was the general's obsession with a form of ant eugenics that was the issue. It is clear he had sympathizers higher up in the chain of army command, but not the queen. I vaguely recall him trying to cojole the princess into remaking the colony with him.
Ina Bug's Life, the antagonist is clearly a greedy outsider. The issue for the ruling class is Flick's inventions tend to malfunction and has caused issues in the past, along with the cataclysmic loss of food his latest exploit caused. It's not unreasonable for them to be wary of his eccentricity. The queen and princess, for their parts, are less oppressors, and more like sheltered and single minded. Paying off the hoppers is all that matters. Everything else works out. Of course, getting rid of the hoppers also solves all of the colonies' issues, so again, why get rid of the royalty?
And here we have the closet socialist in their natural habitat, writing paragraphs upon paragraphs of mental gymnastics in order to maintain their anti-elite perspective.
Cognitive dissonance is the greatest tool of the weakling.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no PROTIP: reading posts before having tantrums about things that aren't in them will make you embarrass yourself less often.
I agree
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no bro, what are you on about? All I said was the royals were not the issue in either case, so it made perfect sense why they were not overthrown. Did you even read it?
@@Linkfan001 don't bother. The guy's out in the comments just picking a fight.
If you really don't like the vid, just dislike it and move on. (Talking to Johnson there)
Your comment was actually enlightening compared to what this guy has been spittin, at least some of us are able to use critical thinking faculties.
On a side note, did you know many ant species' queens live about 12-17 years old? The small ants are more feisty, willing to fight for food, the older ones start coming out wrinkled, and wise enough to save energy knowing there's plenty of food. Also, they have a graveyards. Weird.
Always liked Antz more as a kid, it felt distinctly different than other kid films. Shit was brutal, the war with the termites lives rent free in my head.
The only thing I remember from watching Antz as a kid was the awkward dancing scene and the war against the termites.
I just remembering finding Antz boring compared to Bug's Life.
From my childhood, all I remember is the picnic scene.
From a later watch, all I remember is Sylvester Stallone.
I remember when the army ant said "damn" and I was like what? This is a kids show.
The only thing I remembered was the magnifying glass and giant shoe scene
I remember being the kid who loved Antz but kept repeating during Bugs Life that insects need to have 6 legs.
Honestly this analysis is super impressive. If you get enough engagement to create a follow up, it would be interesting to bring Heidegger into the discussion of kid’s film portray of technology
Honestly, I think that it would be much more interesting to draw on some more recent philosophy of technology and STS. While Heidegger remains important to philosophy of technology for some of his insights, his general view is way outdated by now.
@@lucacollalti2520 I don't know if it's like that, Luca. Truly there are other views, but his texts about technique, techne, as that that we used to control and shape the world with but ended up controlling us instead is still very worth engaging with.
@@OntologicalCatastrophe I'm not saying Heidegger has become worthless, but philosophy of technology has long moved beyond and, in some regards, away, from him. This is particularly true when it comes to some of the aspects you're mentioning, like the technology controlling us and alienating us. You may want to read the chapter that Peter-Paul Verbeek has dedicated to him in his boos "What Things Do".
@@lucacollalti2520 Just no.
@@lucacollalti2520 still a lot of the big names in contemporary PoT are heiddegerian
Antz has stuck with me since my childhood, especially once I started learning about its inspiration. Great video, but I expected to hear an analysis of the final line: "I feel like I've finally found my place. And you know what? It's right back where I started. The only difference is that this time, I chose it."
After finding his own utopia with a great partner to share it with, Z decides to return to the colony to save the kidnapped princess, and ends up saving all of the ants in the process. After all of this, that final line may not shed light on how his society changed, but it does tell us how his view of that society changed. He went back to being a worker (granted he would actually deserve being treated like a hero this time).
This line hints that Z's problem wasn't with working, but with being alienated from the purpose of his labor. Our world would certainly be happier if everyone was able to work towards causes that bring them joy. Rather than seeing your hard work be used to shoot a greedy bald guy into space.
Anyway, I can't help but analyze the hell out of Antz whenever it plays in my mind. I'm definitely team Antz.
As an aside, what is it with Disney/Pixar and Randian philosophy?
Great comment
I am at least 90% sure Walt Disney was a fan of Randian Philosophy. Why wouldn't he be since he was a "Great innovator" himself. So it makes sense that it would leak into a lot of the company as well.
Edit: Fixed a spelling mistake
I agree with u. Ant Z is about choosing the way you live
We also can't overlooked the fact that the ant colony in A Bug's Life is basically enslaved by the grasshoppers.
Everyone in the 2010-2020s: why are movies so political these days?
Movies from the 1990s:
The big difference is that now days movies are political propaganda that spells you what to think, movies back then just told you the facts and allowed you to form your own ideology by yourself; that's what people mean when they say "political", you get "educated' and indoctrinated.
Part of it is the average person realizing that even capitalist escapism still situates you back into your place and hating it, part of it is reactionaries recognizing being called out literally everywhere, and part of it is that many people actually DO want to be ignorant, but because of the prevalance of info, even if your still ignorant, you sister isn't, your nephew isn't, and the old times aren't holding up, even for those who want it to, so to protect their image of the old regime in their heads, they have to darvo responsibility.
I always liked to think of A Bug’s Life as being more worker positive than that given the rallying of the colony against oppressive powers which alienate them from their labor, but I hadn’t realized before the way that the social structure and monarchy are upheld and the ruling powers within the colony remain fundamentally unchanged. Good stuff with this analysis!
Well for A Bug's Life why wouldn't the current social structure be upheld? The queen and princess were just as oppressed by the grasshoppers as the worker ants. It's not like the royalty made a deal to be spared or hoarded food. Infact Hopper's plan if they did get the food was to squash the old queen as a lesson to the ants and princess would become the new queen with fear of the grasshoppers. The colony would die out without a queen to lay new eggs which is why the colony protects them above all. Its not really a monarchy ruling as much as a mother of a very large family.
@@windwatcher5 Yes the royalty in A Bug's Life were just as opressed as the workers, but why did the writers set it up this way? What values do the writers hold? What vaules does the scoiety they wrote this narrative for hold? That's what this video is talking about.
You can't have any ant centered story where the royalty gets deposed. That just makes no sense
@@androkguz That's a fairly common issue with stories that use animals as a metaphor.
To which extent is this a story about animals, and to which extent this is a story about humans?
If this is a story about animals, questioning the social structure of an ant colony doesn't make sense.
But if the rigid social structure of an ant colony is used as a metaphor for human society... Remaining uncritical of it may send a fairly questionable message.
And if you flip-flop between the two, the movie's message may turn out really confusing. (Like in Madagascar, for example, in which the lion wanting to eat other animals is portrayed as a big problem for most of the movie... And the solution is to just eat fish. Why are fish, especifically, okay?...)
I've watched a video that goes more in-depth about it a couple of years ago: czcams.com/video/7oR6iET6FVo/video.html
@@joaomarcoscosta4647 I think a Bug's life did a good job making it clear this is a story about people. Like humans, the population seems split 50/50 between female and male. The queen dosn't appear to be the mother to every ant in the colony either. They are just born into roylaty, like humans. The only unique ability the royal family has is the ability to fly, which, doesn't affect the story much.
“The whole system makes me feel… insignificant.”
“Excellent, you’ve made a real breakthrough, Z! You are insignificant!”
Holy shit, what a funny line. Antz seems like it’s actually wonderfully satirical, definitely gonna give it a rewatch.
I remember finding A Bug’s Life to be a little boring, I think it’s because Flik doesn’t really have much of an arc? He doesn’t really have to learn anything or do anything differently, he’s just gotta keep going until the world catches up. Just kind of boring as a character. I think as a kid I found Antz too grim and sad, and the animation isn’t as pretty. I didn’t understand satire at the time. I think I’ll enjoy it more watching as an adult.
I definitely agree. I see Antz as modern crituque of how collectivism in a ever growing authoritarian western world and Corperate world we are heading into that shadows the authoritarian nature communist/soviet styled nations of post cold war era. General mandible says a very infamous line after interrogating astkeka and Weaver on Zee's wereabouts. He utters 'You see men, now we are all witnessed to the dangers of individualism can do to the hearts and minds, its makes us weaker and softer minded.' Basically confirming the films critic that actually human societies are getting more and more collective authoritarian that restrict the individual's rights than the latter.
Thats why I always see american late 90s comedic/parody films actually more lasting like well done wine than recent american media fil.s coming from Englishman.
This is so interesting. The inner messages in kids movies always wows me
You said it. Even after studying these topics in college I never particularly attributed them to these types of films, until now.
its funny looking back at this kinda stuff. if you havent already, i would recommend watching the "Some more news Movie". its long and the humor is take it or leave it, but it looks at some old movies and veiws them through a modern political perspective.
Gotta indoctrinate them early
@@TheBloodswordsman look at kids movies now, oh look the yellow toy said a funny
Antz is an adult movie that is fine for kids.
First of all, great video. Loved both movies when I was a kid. Secondly, how dare you talk about Antz and not mention the war with the Termites? The absolute terror of that scene was so well done!
That one ant that's just a head, still alive... holy shit. That was a kid's movie. No wonder I turned out the way I did, lmfao.
the endless war enables the ruling class to remain in power while the lower classes remain powerless.
Fighting the termites is literally 1984
its so funny when barbados asks Z "dont sugarcoat it kid, tell me how bad it is" and its just Z holding his head.
Yeah, Wisecrack forgot to mention the importance of the termite war scene and how Barbados in his last moments urges Z to think for himself because he never got that chance
@@cytoid7062 "I can't feel my legs"
All ants are equal, but some more than others
It's hard for ants to be equal when they all live for about 3 months (except for the Queen who can live for years) and work from the moment they leave the pupa.
@@Tabbimura it's a coute from Animal Farm of George orwell
@@lordm31
I am well aware. I've read the book and watch every adaptation.
@@Tabbimura oh u were just being literal.
Stalinism
I remember when these films came out, I was in my first year of college and not quite politically aware enough to put all of this into words. I remember even then finding Antz to be not only radical but politically and philosophically motivating, and Bugs Life feeling more like a celebration of the status quo by comparison.
Lol I guess I was dumb back then I only thinking "bugs life is way better cuz antz is ugly and only has ants in it"
Damn you're old lol
@@regulus6773 so old
i saw these when i was like 9 and remember feeling a bug's life was really dumb in comparison to antz. ofc i didn't have any political notion of like, anything, but the colony, the characters all felt a lot more real in antz, and yeah, the message felt a lot more important.
@@arts1721 Good way to put it. Antz felt more important.
Apart from taking a more based approach to class inequality and individualism within a hierarchical society, Antz also offers compelling critiques of nationalism and shows the horrors of war.
actually its more critique on Communism actually. There is nothing nationalistic about an ant colony!
Most worker ants like termites, wasps, bees and hornets which are also nicknamed drones(due to the fact they no genitals execept for the queen ant, next in line queen aka princess ant and male prince who will fertilise princess turning her into the queen. (Thats how all colony insects run by biologically) This fits a perfect almost realistic communist society where the majority are atomised and never amount anything whilst dictatorial few can be the very biological top. Aka how tye last remaining moderm communist/socialist nations run today like cuba, north korea, China, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, venslezula and Angola are run currently run today. Also in all communist societies there is string emphasis on miliatry identity too. Where constant funding is placed on miliatry in protecting the communist goverment itself in fear of being swept way by the capitalist world and the ilcivilians are reminded by propaganda to always eternally maintain it whilst having constant scapegoat capitalist enemy knawing at the teeth.
@@oimate9796 First of all you are not even correct about the basic biological facts concerning ants, there are colonies with multiple queens or without any queens and species where all workers are in principle able to reproduce (in most species the workers are sterile, I don't think this means they have no genitalia and since you seem to know very little about ants I am inclined to think you are wrong about this as well).
Secondly, you appear to be completely media illiterate as well as ignorant of how the world works. Capitalism is the thing that atomises people (by trying to turn everything into inpersonal market interactions), communism is always described as "collectivist" (mostly by people who hate communism and use that term in a derogatory manner, communists do emphasise the importance of community building) so saying the majority is atomised in communism is just garbled anticommunist propaganda nonsense.
Saying a strong emphasis on the military is typical of communist countries is even more ridiculous when the USA is the most overtly militarised country. Hundreds of military bases around the world, veterans and soldiers get discounts everywhere, you play the anthem in honour of the troops at every sporting event, children have to swear allegiance to the flag every day. Literally only the Western propaganda version of North Korea comes close to the USA in terms of militaristic nationalist insanity.
No go grow a prefrontal cortex before you embarrass yourself even more online.
My brother is 6 years older than I am and was a fan of Ants at the age of 12, while I was 6 and preferred A Bugs Life. Next time I visit him, I want to rewatch both movies and see how we changed, while also observing my niece and nephew watch them for the first time.
One point that I've never noticed before in A Bug's Life:
His new harvesting machine will cut down all the stalks now and there will be nothing to harvest next year. And now we're facing an Easter Island scenario. Technology ≠ Sustainability.
The slower method of picking seeds one by one is the only way that guaranteed food forever.
Especially because without having to feed the grasshoppers as well as themselves, they can harvest by hand while still having leisure time.
Except that many grasses die each winter and regrow in the spring, so cutting them down doesn't actually affect the growth of plants in the next generation assuming you don't cut the roots and save enough seeds to replant as necessary.
When fertilizers and the steam engine were invented, manpower from the farms were freed up. That's how industrialization began. With technology, we would need less hands to work the farms, thus freeing up manpower for specialization and for the factories. The slower method would prevent specialization, thus the society would remain an agrarian society where the vast majority are peasants; just like the ancient romans or the medeival kingdoms. With Fliks new harvesting machine it is akin to giving the romans a mini combine harvester.
@@winzyl9546 @Greywolf757 true. It was more a black and white comment. In reality we definitely need a balance which includes technology.
They grow back. The alternative was taking the seeds that would equally mean no food for next year
"If I had a nickel for every time Dreamworks Studios made an animated movie about insects as an allegorical framework for a critique on capitalism, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice"
-Dr. Doofenshmirtz, maybe
I think you would have one, Dreamworks movies don’t really touch on economics, or social systems besides Antz.
@@bendu8282 Watch their Bee Movie video
@@A_Random_W33b actually good point it would be two nickels thanks for the correction there.
@@bendu8282 no worries :)
If "Over the Hedge" had been about insects, you'd have three. That movie was _hyperfocused_ on lampooning consumerism.
Ah, this brings back memories. Back in high school social studies classes, we got to watch both of these movies. A Bug's Life was likened to a feudalistic society and was watched when we were learning about that, and then a year later when we learned about communism we got to watch Antz.
rofl jesus fucking christ, this, this right here is what's wrong with modern schools.
So to learn about communism, they had you watch a movie about capitalism? Lol I think the teachers may need to learn what communism is themselves.
I agree with the Feudalism part
@@Alex_Barbosatbf it is a story about a communist uprising lol
@@Archiejoeawesome fair lol
I can’t express how much this channel has changed my life, it’s extraordinary, well written and researched.
Ikr, it even makes me more interested in looking for another meaning in the media. Like, now I look the books in “Thugs Notes” and read them before watching the video to compare conclusions
Mua, this channel is kinda biased
Some video's are great, I admit that
But you have to stay critical because his research is sometimes biased
@@trueblade3636 everything is biased
I always prefered AntZ, I feel like it's the more "adult" of the two.
That doesn't mean better
what does adult even mean? bugs life has a better art direction. the colors just pop
It is.
Even as a kid AntZ made more sense to me. Bugs Life had some major issues that confused me. Watched it recently and it still feels like it is lacking a lot.
I don’t prefer it but I agree it seems more adult
Antz is a very thoughtful, underrated movie, one of my favourites growing up, and implanted in me my first realization of how horrifying war and social structure can be. I'm honestly very thankful for it.
I always thought the grasshoppers in A Bug's Life were more akin to a mafia than an imperialist nation
What's the difference?
@@JohnMiller-bs2ln power an imperialist nation is actually more powerful than the colony as apposed to a mafia is weaker than the general population
@@danielmallory4687 We usually don't speak of maffia untill they have half the city in their pocket.
@@danielmallory4687 How comes almost all of them were beaten then?
@@jfilip2574 because they weren't look at how many colony's are still under some imperial rule
8:17, also from an Objectivist perspective Z is a heroic character. Firstly, he is forced to work “for the good of the colony” and provided with nothing in exchange and doesn’t buy platitudes about sacrifice to the point where he decides to abandon the society that would rob him of his individuality and goes into exile in a paradise beyond the reach of his government. At that point he’s practically John Galt. And the reason Z goes back is specifically to rescue the woman with whom he has fallen in love rather than any affiliation with the worker’s strike (which he didn’t participate in at all). In the Objectivist morality, the individual pursues his rational self-interest so from a Randian (and for that matter Kantian but let’s focus on Rand here) perspective if his reason for saving her were because he was in love with her then his was an act of selfishness (which in Rand’s book is a virtue) and if he were inclined to save her because he felt a sense of duty then that would be an act of altruism (which for Rand was practically a dirty word) and in this movie it’s extremely clear that his reason for going back is because he’s in love with Princess Bala and that he’s not going back for the colony. Come to think of it even the comically ended “that guy owes me money, we’ve got to stop this” demonstrates that Z is acting out of self-interest in the Randian sense and Z’s ultimate conclusion “this time I chose it” reaffirms his autonomy as an individual and that he does what he does because he wants to rather than because of a Communal obligation.
11:52, in A Bug’s Life the concept of class is limited to 1) Royal family 2) Everyone else and it’s not even hard and fast since they have no problem with Flik marrying into the Royal Family
There's also the grasshopper overall ruling class at the very top. The Royal Family is just middle management.
Hopper is voiced by Kevin Spacey so creepy Hopper scared the daylights of me as a kid when I first saw A Bugs Life
Thank god I wasn't the only one. As a child he scared me, his design and menace use to give me nightmares. But as adult he unnerved me more. His speech to his gang right after axing off 3 of them and heading back to the anthill, still to this day frightens me. People like Hopper exist. Fuck most them are in politics! It's insane!
Growing up I always mixed up these two movies, eventually I somehow blended scenes together
I would've been firmly Team Bluth had I understood what was happening back then, but as a kid I was just confused why there were two animated ant movies at the same time.
“There can be only one!” - Kid you, probably.
2:34 "This is based off of Aesop's fables"
It's also based off of Three Amigos - where a town seeks the help of entertainers to fight off warlords (believing that the entertainers are actually soldiers)
It also appears to be very inspired by Seven Samurai. (Which is probably what Three Amigos was also inspired by.)
Not many people talk about a bugs life or antz nowadays, this is why y’all are one of my favorite channels
I love how the criticism of Antz is capitalist realism, not that idea I expected for 2022 but the idea I'm happy to hear.
Interesting note, "A Bug's Life" follows the structure of "Seven Samurai" forced to fit a 90 minute model. It's a bit of a stretch but works!
Do not confuse Marxism with Individualism. Karl Marx did not believe in the individual he believed in the communist state. Ayn Rand was the one who believed in and promoted individualism. Ayn Rand grew up in a Russia that was becoming ever more communist in which she saw her neighbors become homeless, where she saw creators and inventors crushed by the state. When she finally came to America she was amazed at the fact that creators and inventors could thrive and that’s what she wrote her books about.
Can't wait for you to explain how Toy Story 3 was about Schindler's List
A big part of A Bug's Life is about an oppressed group rallying against their oppressors. One could argue that the ants in A Bug's Life are more like Native Americans, Hawaiians or some other group that fell to colonialism, except the twist is they actually win in freeing themselves from oppression. Flick's inventions and thinking helped, but it was rallying everyone to work together and fight back that saved the day. Flick isn't a Randian figure or hero; he's very much presented as selfless and wanting to do what's right for his community, even putting his life on the line. The complete opposite of the overwhelming selfishness and self preservation of Randian philosophy. Presenting A Bug's Life as a story of ''Randian traditionalism'' is a bit of a disservice to the overall theme of the actual film. Idk, I like both movies, but I have a soft spot for A Bug's Life more so than Antz.
Exactly, it's the same reason I don't think "The Incredibles" is Randian. Yes, it has a good guy talking about how they shouldn't oppress their innate powers to be like regular people that 'celebrate mediocrity', but they still fight and use their powers to be altruistic and protect people from danger, which isn't Randian at all.
Totally agree. ❤ just wrote something similar.
Middle-school-aged me had great taste in bug movies, based on this analysis. I was the only kid I knew who preferred Antz over A Bug's Life.
3:28, the Grasshopper’s in A Bugs’ Life almost perfectly approximate how the Anarchist Capitalist would conceptualize the State as such
A Bug's Life also shares some similarities to Seven Samurai.
They even have the scene where the warriors show up and no one greets them, out of fear
I feel like I should add that Bugs Life took more from Akira Kurosawa’s Seven Samurai then it did from Aesop’s The Ant and the Grasshopper.
I mean, the ants are the farmers, the grasshoppers are the bandits, the “warrior bugs” are the samurai.
Bugs Life is just the kids version of Seven Samurai.
Antz > a bugs life
That's some darn good analysis!
Glad you're stating it so openly for everyone: the issue isn't just an oppression in the capitalist system, the problem is that the system itself is the opression.
You forgot the most important part of A Bug's Life. Hopper's speech about 'Keeping them in Line'
9:23, and this is where Antz shows its genius. It sets out to illustrate that (as Hayek said) the embrace of Individualism is good for the Collective as a whole. And the way that it does this is when it has the individualist Z say “We are the colony” having as an individual led them from out of the anthill and the collectivist General Mandible reveals his true selfishness when he proclaims “I am the colony”.
Great job Mike and team, please do more of these!!!
That's really interesting, I kinda knew where this was going to go but I didn't expect such a detailed analysis of all the symbols nor a quote from Jameson. I'd be interested in a more developed take on his ideas pertaining to politics and sci-fi, I read Archeologies of the Future but I think a Wisecrack video would be a great help in helping me understand the subtleties of it.
Hmmmm, he says france alot, but i get the impression he means america.
Probably the best video I've see from Wisecrack. Nice work!
I feel like what makes A Bug’s Life better than Antz is that it’s message feels a lot more subtle than Antz, which while that film has a more adult tone and more mature imagery, it’s political messages are a lot more upfront and kinda in your face (Be an individual and don’t follow orders blindly!) A Bug’s Life’s message of strength in numbers is a lot more subtle and the film itself can be interpreted numerous ways, such as Marx’s conflict theory, the grasshoppers being the entitled rich living off of the labor of the ants, the working class.
13:54, Antz portrays a society where the government owns the means of production. That’s Statist Socialism (as opposed to libertarian socialism) not Capitalism
This is just the compare and contrast video I needed of these two great films. Wonderful work!
always answering questions i didn't know i needed to know ! thanks Wisecrack ;)
As a kid I loved a bugs life. Now as an adult, antz makes more sense. Still love both films 👌
I remember the Bug’s Life video game being one of the best looking games I had ever played at the time it came out.
I was addicted to that game. It was beautiful addictive and certain parts felt impossible to me at that age. I was so enamored.
I’ve just watched 6 of ur videos back to back. I love it, u deserve more views the effort alone with all the reference, also love how the voices. GGwp ps I’m stoned ❤️
I remeber having the core concept of this video pop into my mind toward the end of highschool, and it is fun to see other people discussing the idea.
Beautiful and thought provoking review!!!
The Wisecrack drinking game: Have a shot everytime Michael says "highly".
All joke's aside, still loving the direction the channel is taking.
The only thing I remember about Antz was when an ant got stuck in gum on the sole of a shoe
You know I just realized that a bugs life is also similar to the seven samurai
That line, "it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism" begs the question, what do people think of when they think of capitalism? Or to be more specific, are people thinking of commerce? If so, commerce existed long before capitalism became a thing and can exist in places we wouldn't consider capitalist. If this confusion is true, then we need to separate the two ideas
Absolutely! People who defend capitalism often assume that a world without it would have no trade, no order, etc. But trade and invention have existed as long a society has and capitalism is only a few hundred years old. Separating these two ideas as well as separating the ideas of personal property (your house, car, stuff) and private property (factories, apartment buildings, things you don't personally use but still profit from) is essential to imagining a world with a different structure than modern capitalism.
@@everestjarvik5502 Amen to that.
The reason why people think that is they believe that "captial realism" is utterly true.
@@everestjarvik5502 Another way to look at capitalism not being inevitable is the lie that it is an algorithm. Alot of leftist say that the "algorithm has become self conscious" as means to say capitalism is inevitable becuase human input has been taken out of it's process. If that is true, then why do certain humans, particularly the ones who benefit from the current order, rush in to save it whenever challenged? This type of abdication to the "market's will" is the same garbage line the priests used to say "it is God's will". Both are charlatans using an illusion.
@@elihan9 What people who talk about the "capitalist algorithm" mean is that we cannot get rid of capitalism by convincing the "right" people that we should. Even if every CEO on earth became an anticapitalist overnight, the structures we have in our society would make sure they were replaced immediately and nothing would change. It's a statement about structural forces in our current order. I don't use it to claim capitalism is inevitable or can't be overthrown.
I saw Antz with my parents when I was a kid and since my father was actually involved for a while with the communist party in my country and even was invited to the URSS (before it's dissolution) he couldn't wait to point out how Antz was about the social class struggle and he actually began teaching me about socialism and about Marx.
What about Americas occupation of Afghanistan
I feel bad that your dad belief in a failed system
@@geardestroy haha ok bro.
@@geardestroy lol ok
Your father sounds like a man with good conviction
14:21, the latter. We can find deep meditations of life in even the smallest of places. I might dispute the central thesis of your analysis (in fact I do) but I still appreciate that you made it.
4:26, everything about the oppressive society in Antz is centred on the idea (represented by General Mandible) that the Individual does not matter and all must only serve the collective with Z rebelling against this by seeking to do what he wants for himself regardless of what he owes the collective. But in the end Z’s individualism saves the collective (when Mandible says “it’s for the good of the colony” Z replied “What do you mean we are the colony”) whereas Mandible’s collectivism ultimately only serves one empowered individual General Mandible (hence Mandible responding to Cutter saying “it’s for the good of the colony” by saying “you ungrateful insolent maggot, I am the colony”.)
As long as you're tacking on context to these movies, it's worth exploring the theory that Bug's life is really modeled after 7 samurai.
Or the Three Amigos.
I recently rewatched Antz and inexplicably found the Stallone ant kind of a sexy himbo
One of your best episodes yet!
A great one again... this is the kind of video that make Wisecrack great!!!
Randian clichés do exist in Pixar films, for example, The Incredibles, where the Supers have their vigilantism ended by the law, only to fight against a mere human, who wanted to give super powers to ordinary people via technology, after being rejected by a Super to be heroic. In Cars, the defective cars are left in neglect, because their flaws make them unsuitable to society, so rather than help these unfortunate cars, they are isolated and preyed upon by superior cars like the racecar, or take advantage of by a tow truck. John Lasseter and Brad Bird both have expressed Randian sentiments in their interviews, hence their views of individuality as superior to collectivism, and anyone telling them to be apart of something bigger than themselves, is in their view oppression.
I'm really tired of people assuming Incredibles has an objectivist bent to it because the whole scenario being passed around that the antagonist was "rejected" by supers for not having powers and wanting to bring equality via technology feels incredibly misleading. Syndrome is the only person who in the film who takes umbrage with the powers dynamic, but context is that even as a child he kept pushing himself onto Mr. Incredible to the point it became stalkerish and doesn't seem to understand how inappropriate it is. Then there was him trying to involve himself in Mr. Incredible trying to apprehend Bomb Voyage, to the former's frustrations, which is probably the scene where people think the film's thesis came from: "It's because I don't have powers isn't it; you can be super without them!" Again, he is a child with no proper training, trying to involve himself in a violent situation with an armed criminal. Reality ensues when Bomb Voyage stuck a bomb on young Syndrome's cape which resulted in the train accident because Mr. Incredible had to focus on the latter and struggle getting the bomb off. Even though child sidekicks have been in comics since the golden age, the past 50 years have deconstructed the trope to show how dangerous and irresponsible it is, even Stan Lee hated the trope and killed off Bucky Barnes in Captain America to prove a point. It's just really telling when Syndrome flashbacked to that moment; Bomb Voyage, having a near death experience, or even indirectly causing the Super Relocation Act don't factor in; only just Mr. Incredible telling him to go home. Even then it just shows he's a budding sociopath that feels no remorse. And that's just the prologue, his scheme involves murdering countless supers just to perfect his robot and planning a terrorist attack so he could pretend to be a hero.
@@NobodyC13 Buddy is Fironic's son. It's daddy issues.
@@normanclatcher Er. . . What?! Does that exist in some supplementary materials like comics? Even so, I'm looking at the case and context presented in the movie alone, and what I'm seeing is Syndrome is not out for equality: he's an entitled sociopath who represents the worst traits of a toxic fan.
Back to Wisecrack’s roots
One of the best analysis of these films. Great work.
The great debate of 1998 gets resolved
Would love to see some things about Hilda now that the Troll Arc has been completed
I'm always surprised how based Wisecrack actually is
7:08, though I would actually posit that Antz is more individualistic than A Bug’s Life is since in Antz the driving idea is that the Individual should “think for yourself” making his own decisions through his own will instead of being called upon to sacrifice their needs to those of the collective. And Z himself says at the end that even though he’s (seemingly) in the same place as he was at the beginning he’s not really because “this time I chose it” whereas in A Bug’s Life the obligation of the individual to Society is effectively assumed by everyone
As things like this reveal themselves to me as an adult, I understand more and more how I came to be one of the only socialists in my entire family. I liked a bug's life, but antz was always the superior film.
Couple thoughts. 1) I never saw the colony rallying after the princess steps in as putting her life higher than flick. The colony is petrified by hopper and Flick was the only one capable of standing. Everyone else was frozen in fear until the princess shows they can be courageous as well. This gives the rest of the colony the push needed.
2) perhaps a bugs life is just a little more honest that change happens slowly. A society would not likely become a democracy overnight, but it could adopt a little tech as a way on that path. Not to mention that the princess faces her own troubles and it's not a "happy ending" if she looses everything as a result of social change.
"Change happens slowly" is unfortunately also the most popular excuse of politicians who are ostensibly intending to make things better clearly not doing everything they could be towards that goal. In reality changes happen quite quickly... If those with the most power in society see those changes as beneficial to their interests.
@@YumLemmingKebabs I disagree, genuine change is very slow. The holders of power can issue whatever commands they want, but until the vast majority of society adopts these commands not simply as rules with the fear of punishment but as routine, change has not occurred. Take mask and vaccine mandates for example, they were swift and decisive, but significant minorities are still disregarding them routinely. Despite the powers'-that-be sincere efforts, our society hasn't changed to be more aware of hygienic issues.
I see only one way that society can change overnight, and that is in regards to an external existential threat whose repercussions can be felt directly and swiftly. In that way every single member of said society can agree that swift action is necessary and change will be adopted naturally.
Less a critique on their analysis and more on the tendency to equate meaning = quality. These two *should* go hand-in-hand, especially when considering repeat viewings. Some of my favorite films were hard to enjoy initially because I didn’t understand the deeper implications. That being said, I frequently see “Antz” being praised in direct contrast to “A Bug’s Life” on it’s adult themes alone as if those were enough to overlook its arguably less inspired casting, grotesque cgi (even for the time), and wildly uneven tone/humor. On a technical level as well as creative, “A Bug’s Life” is far superior and a labored product of love - especially compared to the downright parasitic production of “Antz” (which was rushed to theaters to “beat” Pixar at the Box Office). It’s ironic when a studio can be praised for celebrating anti-workforce sentiments when it THRIVES off exploiting its own workforce (its like Richie Rich telling you money doesn’t buy happiness). Animators are notoriously exploited and there is nothing to suggest “Antz” was anything more than a petty rivalry and shrewd business move (which in my opinion, leaves a shallow aftertaste).
But after all that… there is NOTHING wrong with people loving “Antz” more than “A Bug’s Life” - they both play to their respective audiences wonderfully, and Pixar’s film is nowhere close to perfect.
Damn this video informational and entertaining. An effing banger. Pog
I remember the first time I rewatched Antz as an adult, and I nearly did a double take when I heard the line about the Workers owning the Means of Production.
Yes.. France and Algier.. in the past. No other, more relevent nations, both historically or today.. yup.
It's a really relevant example and tons of Algerians remember those days still. I don't see the issue.
The example of France and Algeria is even more important than you may think. South America's Dirty War, though US-backed, was the product of the French intervention in Algeria. The Argentinian military especially was trained by French veterans that taught them about urban and anti subversion warfare, and later would share their teaching with other South American countries, like Chile, Paraguay, Bolivia, etc. So yes, it's extremely relevant today, and not only for Algerians.
@@Loffeleif Yes I'm not saying that it isn't a correct example, or trying to dismiss how important it is as an historical event. The point I'm trying to make is that the U.S is in this practice of exploiting other nations for resources both historically and currently, as do many other countries, UK, Europe, Russia etc etc. And to not mention that fact or apply the conclusions that this video makes to your own country or the modern world as a whole, whilst you live in a nation that benefits from that current ongoing exploitation and extraction of labour value of other nations (I presume Wisecrack are alll Americans?), seems like a silly or sly omission and an evasion of a difficult truth. I'm from the UK and pretending that evils of nations are things of the past or solely the activities of other "bad" countries is a slick narrative I hear all too often.
@@ArdanArianis Ah! That's very interesting thank you. I don't want to repeat myself but I replied to someone above you about the point I was trying to make. Simply put I was just hinting that the U.S, UK, Europe etc etc still engage in these practices of exploiting other countries for resources today and that it should perhaps of been mentioned in this video too.
"If you don't keep up your end of the bargain, then I can't guarantee your safety" may as well replace "In God We Trust" as the national motto is all I'm saying.
0:44, I disagree. I only ever found the similarities between the two to be extremely superficial. Sure, they’re more similar to one another than either one is to The Ant Bully but they still aren’t all that similar
Seeing all these Antz clips makes me realized that I didn't understand anything about this film when I watched it. I was like 5 or 6 so I mostly liked it for it looked and how it sounded.
11:04, also in Antz few characters actually conceptualize it as progress.
The Winner: The Moviegoers. We got to see 2 good movies
The secret message of every Pixar film is deeply Randian. Exceptional people changing the mundane world of their "lessors" with their intrinsic skill. It's truly wild when you start to see it.
What's the Randian message in Finding Nemo?
@@Dachusblot "Just Keep Swimming"
Sounds like real life, where many unexceptional people have their lives changed by exceptional people
I get the opposite, especially in a bugs life. If anything, exploitation, colonisation and wage theft are the problems that are highlighted.
Perhaps life in general is more Randian
As far as Antz go, it wasn't really a twisted parody of the story "The Ant and the Grasshopper" like how A Bug's Life has portrayed where the ants are forced to serve their "neighbors" the grasshoppers every harvest of food to them before winter comes. My older sister even compared it to slavery which I didn't even noticed as a kid growing up until she told me months ago on how the narrative of A Bug's Life really is. I CAN tell you that with Antz they weren't slaves to grasshoppers but I have noticed a lot of classism between the worker ants and soldier ants, which by the way makes it seem like things are better on the otherside but in actuality it's worse than it really is. I mean that's like saying that Zootopia is the same as Sing just because both movies have talking animals in a city setting, except Zootopia is more like a cop drama whereas Sing is more of a comedy musical. There are genres within genres.
You might have missed that a bugs life is also based on the Japanese film Seven Samurai. That might also inform the divine rights of the ant royal family
I feel like saw this on Bionic Pig's Channel a while ago
Yuuup. Bionic Pig moment.
You did. I remember Antz is a marxist conspricy monment.
Okay, I'm glad I wasn't having a stroke. No shade, cos he has a philosophy degree and can dissect it differently, obviously... But I'd be lying if I said Pig's wasn't a bit more fun to watch.
6 legs vs 4 legs, antz is better
When I was younger, I thought Antz was a generic rip-off of A Bug's Life with darker story... I think I can appreciate both now a little more than I did. Thank you, Wisecrack.
This is the best Wisecrack video I've seen in years.
Ever since I watched these movies, I've been wanting to break the chains and free the workers. ⛓️🔨
0:40 Completely different art styles.
0:46 One's an overachieving inventor. The other's an underachieving overworked grunt (who underachieves because he's overworked).
1:02 In reality, if a caterpillar's metamorphosis is interrupted, it'll die. Also, Heimlich resembles a Cecropia caterpillar which becomes a moth, not a butterfly. But his pupal casing is a chrysalis, not a cocoon, so maybe I just WANT him to be a Cecropia (because I kept one as a pet when I was a kid).
1:12 The real message of both movies is that collectivism is inherently oppressive.
1:18 Robert Heinlein would agree. But of course, not all insect species are colonial.
2:07 One thing that 'A Bug's Life' gets wrong (aside from the fact that ants aren't technically "bugs" since true bugs are insects of the order Hemiptera) is that it shows an ant getting all confused when a leaf falls in their way.
2:22 IRL, ants would simply cut the leaf apart with their mandibles and add it to their convoy of resources.
2:29 Something else that movie gets wrong is the idea that grasshoppers could ever bully ants into submission. In reality, ants bully everyone else into evacuating the premises. Even the mighty scorpion retreats when ants are on the march, contrary to what 'Honey, I Shrunk the Kids' would have us believe.
2:44 / 11:51 A juxtaposition of reality. The difference in size between an ant and a grasshopper doesn't even matter.
2:56 Which basically makes them a cartel or mafia. IRL, grasshoppers aren't equipped for fighting. That's why they tend to get ate.
3:38 Flick needs to be recruited by his world's version of John Galt. Let the backward-minded primitivists that worship tradition at the expense of reason and appease and enable their own oppressors die in the oblivion of their own design (in accordance with Natural Law). Unless they're willing to throw down their shackles and embrace Resistance, that is. Which they do, but only after heaping helpings of unnecessary suffering that could have been avoided by rewarding rather than punishing forward-thinking types like Flick. Come to think of it, maybe Flick IS the John Galt of his world. Or the Howard Roark. Or whoever your favorite Huxley or Heinlein character happens to be.
4:03 Kinda Gilliamesque. Somewhat reminiscent of 'Brazil'.
4:41 Probably a reference to 'Full Metal Jacket'.
4:59 Especially the Soviet Union. There's one scene where a worker can be heard saying, "Workers control the means of production." The fact that ant society in 'Antz' already resembles the Soviet Union, combined with a character saying THAT, might be a statement about how anarchists were oppressed by the hypocritical Bolshevik regime.
5:18 Notice how nationalism is portrayed as having a duality to it, embodied in Lieutenant Cutter and General Mandible. Mandible is the Lawful Evil Stalinist tyrant, whereas Cutter is the Lawful Good uniter of The People (maybe somewhat similar to Draza Mihailovic and the Chetniks who fought both the Soviets and the Nazis), somewhat similar to Roland from the Borderlands mythos. Granted, he only becomes that when he rebels against Mandible and allies with The Resisty. Z even sacrifices himself to save Cutter.
5:32 That's less nationalist and more socialist, just going by your description. Nationalism, from a nationalist's perspective, is a Resistance movement against an imperialist oppressor. Of course, that would be partisan nationalism (which is anti-fash to the max).
5:38 Collectivism in a nutshell. Doesn't even matter if it has a leftoid or rightoid "flavor" to it. As Stanley Kubrick pointed out, they only differ in their petty doctrinal semantics ("dogma" was the term he used).
5:59 Oppressor class.
6:07 Also Aldous Huxley and Robert Heinlein. Heinlein was a nationalist, btw, but described himself as a "libertarian" (w/lowercase "l"). His brand of nationalism was the partisan style (mixed w/CIVIC nationalism), emphasizing resistance against imperialist oppressors.
6:53 Rand pointed out (btw, thanks for pronouncing "Ayn" correctly) that monopoly, hegemony, and the crony capitalism of robber barons were incompatible with true laissez-faire ideals, especially if we're going by the original French Revolution sense of the term. "Laissez-faire" literally means "let it be," but figuratively means "let THE PEOPLE do as they please." It does NOT mean "let corporations and robber barons do as they please." Also, The People are not a collective hive-mind. They're individuals engaged in free association.
7:18 State socialism and crony capitalism are basically the same from the perspective of those of us whose faces are stomped on by the iron-heeled jackboot of bureaucratic collectivism. See also Fritz Lang's 'Metropolis'.
7:55 So they're saying that Rand was a collectivist while Marx was an individualist?
8:44 So why are all Marxist regimes collectivist?
12:33 So why do all regimes that claim to be Marxist-Leninist do the exact opposite?
13:00 What if all "order," including socialism, is inherently oppressive? What if it's all just different "flavors" of Lawful Evil? What if chaos is the solution? And by that, I mean Chaotic Good. Yeah, I'm sticking with the D&D alignments. Because why not?
13:03 Z points out that he's right back where he started, but also that the difference was that he chose it.
13:36 Notice how Lieutenant Cutter, the Lawful Good nationalist partisan, is the one who rescues Z (after Z sacrificed himself when General Mandible tried to kill Cutter).
13:46 "Crony capitalism," you mean. Or "corporatism" if you prefer. Ayn Rand pointed out that monopolies can only be brought into existence through collusion with the state.
Correction: "Colonel" Cutter
I always thought that Antz had more Anti Marxist messages than Anti Capitalist ones. The colony was so allergic to the idea of Individualism that when one ant acted on their own accord the whole collectivist system collapsed.
Also, the Ant Army fight with the same tactics as the PLA and Red Army.
8:04 this is brilliant everybody