Martha Quinn 1986 interview with Tony Iommi clip discussing COVEN
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
- 1986 interview clip with Martha Quinn and Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath discussing COVEN. Tony looks as if he has seen a ghost.
I also want to point out that the original uploader of this video called COVEN a Sabbath rip off...Sabbath's album was released AFTER Coven's debut album.
Coven 1969.
Black Sabbath 1970.
Lester Bangs review of Black Sabbath's s/t album (1970) calls Sabbath " Something like England's answer to Coven."
![Dio responds to Ozzy [early 80s interview]](/img/n.gif)
Both great bands, however Coven did wear their crosses upside down. True trend setters in my books and the band that put to death the 60's flower power and ushered in the age of darkness in music. Which didn't really catch on until Venom.
Venom is Coven spelled sideways...
Nothing will ever be as wicked as the wicked clowns from southwest Detroit Insane Clown Posse lol not even coven
@@charlessinclair7780 they blow 🙋
@@charlessinclair7780 Except no one agrees with you.
@@kenlieck7756 Oh, my God, that is hilarious.
give coven the credit they deserve.
Idk if they deserve that much they were an early folky satanic band and that's about it
Whenever I get caught in a lie I always use this line "oh my goodness me!"
He said Black Sabbath came out in 68 and coven came out in 69 so what lie are you talking about. Try and pay more attention next time 🤡
@@chriskroll4166 Coven most certainly did not START in 1969. Coven opened up for The Yardbirds when Jimmy Page was in the group. The last time they (The Yardbirds) toured (at that point in time) was in 1967.
@@alexkx8599 You know who started before coven and were doing the same thing down the road from black sabbath? Black widow. Also Jethro tull played shows with black widow (then known as pesky gee) when tony was in the band.
@@lewisb85 Mmmm, thanks for letting me know...I will check that out. I know Ozzy acknowledged Black Widow in an interview and I have a compilation c.d. of theirs that I have never listened which features what I guess would have been their only mild hit, "Come To The Sabbat". That means they had to have started at least 1967 or before...
@@alexkx8599 Black Widow started in 67. Sabbath were also very into the crazy world of Arthur brown who also started in 67 and was doing the pagan occult thing. I don't believe the coven record was as much of a "gotcha" as the journalist thought it was.
Tony has a history of selective amnesia (Tony Martin barely mentioned in his book, Bill Ward cut out of the official site photos).. Nice find on Martha's part, at a time Tony was turning Black Sabbath into Spinal Tap.
I sincerely doubt that Black Sabbath had heard Coven upon their initial release, as they would have had little advertising overseas Coven being an American band, and Black Sabbath being English, I doubt that they would have been exposed to the album, I do not know the exact release date for Coven, but its known Sabbath entered the studio and recorded their first album in October of 1969, and those songs likely had been performed and reheased before the first Coven album was even released, since they had been a band even before that album.
Ozzy was known as Ozzy before they were even a band, that had been his nickname in school as well.. so he was called that long before the album came out.
The name change and song title were from the same year, not sure the exact date of that either, but likely still without knowing this album existed.
Lester Bangs, who cares? he was an American critic who had heard Coven upon its release, thats not to say Sabbath did, as that was a different place. had Coven and Sabbath been from the same scene, sure.. but I dont think they knew much about American bands releases upon release, and I dont even know if that album made it as far as the UK when released, so I am guessing if it did, they probably would have learned about it after the fact.
Coven certainly wasnt a Black Sabbath rip off, as you say because their debut came out first, and Sabbath wouldnt have played a USA show at that time, they were just playing around their hometown and area.
Its not unreasonable to think that the band hadnt even known about them at the time of its release, its not like today where we turn on the internet and see new videos and such from around the world, this was the later 60s.
Earth also knew about Coven before they became Black Sabbath because Coven opened up for the Yardbirds when Jimmy Page was in their group. When Jimmy Page formed his next group, Led Zeppelin, two of the members, John Bonham and Robert Plant, were from Birmingham. Do I need to tell you where Black Sabbath came from?
@@alexkx8599 You do know Birmingham has a population of 2.92 million people right? What you are saying is reaching. More likely sabbath were inspired by black widow who were from down the road from Sabbath, btw black widow started the year before coven(known as pesky gee). Also they toured with Jethro tull who Iommi was a member of in 68.
the brits loved and listened to many american bands not popular in america, the occult was all the rage in those witchy times!!!@@alexkx8599
@@lewisb85 RIGHT! And Ozzy speaks of them in a 1980's videoed interview...I was just checking out Black Widow's discography on Wikipedia and studying how they were Pesky Gee and their first and only l.p. came out in 1969 BUT they existed and started out as a live act in 1966. I do NOT know what Birmingham's population is now or what it was back then but if I feel very confident when Robert Plant Plant and John Bonham were performing (they did do some studio work as well) they knew of one another in the circuit. I really don't think that that is a stretch. Don't get me wrong I love the group Black Sabbath (even though I do consider them a poor man's version of Led Zeppelin) but I do consider them and QUEEN (whom are my third favorite recording group of all time behind Led Zeppelin and Michael Jackson) to be exaggerated extensions of Led Zeppelin.
@@alexkx8599That is not hard evidence. Jimmy Page was from London, and Coven only opened for them in America. Also, no Sabbath member mentions anything about The Yardbirds in their respective books. Get your facts right before bullshitting man.
Do a youtube search on Black Sabbath Children of the Grave, forward to around 4:19 (toward the end of the song) and listen to the riff, then lookup Coven Wicked Woman (recorded 3 years before Children of the grave), forward to around 1:26 and listen to the riff...almost exactly the same. There's also a Pic of Coven inside their first album that is just about identical to the pic inside the paranoid album. There is no doubt that Sabbath was influenced by Coven
+joneslt :OOOO this is true , I love both bands , before I saw your post I was sure black sabbath took obviously covens work , now I'm more convinced
"just about identical to the pic inside the paranoid album" Can you post a link to this pic please? I can't find it. (
also listen to the middle part of electric funeral when ozzy osbourne is singing along with the little solo of tony and then compare it with the intro of dignitaries of hell by coven is very similar
Both the Wicked Woman and Dignitaries of Hell comparisons sound similar, but aren't copies. Ozzy & Co. probably did hear them, but Tony didn't even want to get into it here; I can't blame him.
Well done. It's really the same. Actually, Tony Iommi may have used this LP often and would have liked not to be caught hand in the jelly by Martha Quinn
She's holding a pretty penny in her hand
Lol in '68 they were known as Polka Tulk then Earth... they didn't rename themselves Black Sabbath until '69!
even if Sabbath "stole" the image of Coven, it still doesn't change the fact, that musically Sabbath created something entirely new and special...... btw, I love that debut from Coven, it's great......
Doesn’t change the fact that Coven created something new and special
Love Coven. Hell, even the Stones got Satanic in '67. Sabbath did create Heavy Metal, nonetheless.
Yeah Sabbath was much better musically.
Sabbath proved themselves to be *_FAR_* superior anyway. Timeless first 5 or 6 albums, with the first ones written and released in such a short period of time!
@@yearginclarke noone would dare to question Sabbath's contribution to the musical art...... not only they forged a unique style, but also directly influenced developement of the greatest music genre in history
Yes kids; at one point mtv actually aired good shit!
At 00:43 I swear that he makes visual contact with his manager and its like "Did you know something about this?"
Coven was composed of vocalist Esther "Jinx" Dawson, bassist Greg "Oz" Osborne, guitarist Chris Neilsen, keyboardist Rick Durrett (later replaced by John Hobbs), and drummer Steve Ross. They are recognized by metal fans and metal historians as being the band that introduced the "Sign of the horns" to rock, metal and pop culture (as seen on their 1969 debut album release Witchcraft Destroys Minds & Reaps Souls, which has an opening track called "Black Sabbath").
But their stuff really wasn't metal. It was more psychedelic folk/rock/pop. I've listened to all three of their original albums, and the only song that sounds anything close to metal is the title track from Blood On The Snow.
Highly doubtful metal fans learned the horn sign from Coven. Even John Lennon did it around that time. It was Ronnie James Dio who introduced it to the metal audience while touring with Black Sabbath in the early 80's and since then every metal head emulates his gesture.
@@robertoricci3393 Ronnie got it from geezer. If you watch the never say die Sabbath concert film he is doing it while he is swinging his arm around while playing bass. Plus on the inside of the sleeve of one of the early Sabbath albums there is a live performance shot of geezer and he is doing it there also. 🤷
@@chriskroll4166 You're right, Geezer is seen doing it early in Sabbath but that still does NOT mean he got it from him! Dio has stated millions of time he would see his grandmom doing it when he was just a kid and that it was a very Italian thing and Dio's grand parents were from Italy! I believe there is an image of a show with Rainbow were Ronnie used the horns for maybe a split second.
@@lkingDamian geezer says that Ronnie saw a picture of that early Sabbath album and it gave him the idea to do it on stage. His grandmother did do it but if you notice Ronnie never did it when he was with elf so it was geezer that reminded him of the horns I think. But then who the hell knows. I could probably go online and find an old picture of Bing Crosby doing it to Bob Hope in the road to hell. 🤣🤣🤣🍦
Why do you look so nervous Tommi?
He took a huge rail.
"My goodness gracious?" This issue had been brought up on many occasions before, so if it was coincidence, Iommi would have had a canned response to that effect or explained that the genres are quite different. He could have been honest and said he thought Coven's vibe was cool, there's nothing wrong with that. Instead, the vibe he projects is BS are posers. In any case, this is the best laugh I had this morning.
yess! I love both artist very much but It bothers me he pretended he never heard of them when obviously he had. I would've been blown away if I saw this "first" time. His response shows otherwise. I would've respected him much more for honesty
czcams.com/video/4XLn6sVxNGw/video.html This interview with Jinx proves it was not a coincidence.
Coven was there in ‘67, too, man. *cough, cough*
Amnesia total del Sr Iommi ..Coven y Black Sabbath hicieron un tour juntos en 1970 por USA ..como no se va a acordar de la banda Coven ..esto prueba que aquí hay algo raro.. soy admirador de las dos bandas pero hay que darle crédito al que se lo merece y Coven en cuanto a concepto, estética y letras fue primero..
Pensei que black sabbath havia tocado primeira vez em 1974 nos EUA pelo cal jam
@@youtubbeisshit Manhattan October 30th 1970
@@tenebrisrex333 that was the first sabbath show in the U. S?
Muncha muncha considencia . Cover los verdaderos creadores.
Sabbath played with Van Halen, Judas Priest, Ramones, Mountain, Ted Nuget and many more (lot of underground/non well known bands)... Coven was and still is an underground band, so maybe he just forgot them
Anyway I like Coven's first albums, great lyrics and maybe have influenced other great artist like King Diamond 🔥
awesome, didn't know Coven and Black Sabbath shared the same stage!! i love both groups!
Before that they opened up for The Yardbirds. A much more significant group than Black Sabbath ever will be and could imagine.
@@alexkx8599Yardbirds was an excellent group but come on, their music was no way near as groundbreaking as Black Sabbath's.
@@alexkx8599well yardbirds did become Led Zeppelin so u might have a point however Black Sabbath created an entirely new genre of music and like it or not are talented af
@@TERRMINAITER96 WELL, that's a matter of opinion, lol. HOWEVER it was the catalysts for Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, and Jimmy Page with commercial successes. I consider the pretty significant in terms of the development of those guitarists!
@@Bluntsmoke501 I guess if you want to say, "Doom Metal", MAYBE but I think of them as doing more like, "heavy horror music", and or specializing in it...but even then Zep and Cream were doing that first. There's no question Sabbath not only were talented they were doing good music all along the way.
HAIL TO THE QUEEN, BABY!
Great clip. It's like "Witch came first, the chicken or the egg?" They (BS) had surely seen Coven's album before but didn't want to look un-original.
This reminds me of the time when OJ Simpson saw a picture of himself wearing Bruno Magli shoes 🙃
The only thing keeping me from calling the Witchcraft album Metal is the lack of power chords with distortion. I wonder if the song Kiss The Go-Goat by Ghost is an homage to Coven. If Dio and Sabbath are the Fathers of Metal, then Jinx is the Mother.
I love both bands! I do believe the music industry suppressed Coven while they pushed Black Sabbath. Don't get me wrong Black Sabbath were great! Coven were great also, but being real (left hand path), were deemed dangerous and didn't get hyped by the money making machine.
he acted like he never heard of it.
What people need to realize is both bands were inspired by an early 60's italian horror movie called "Black Sabbath". The song by Coven is essentially based of of the movie. Black Sabbath (the band) saw the movie playing in a theater and decided to change their name.
And the Oz/Ozzy Osbourne this is a coincidence?
It's not that uncommon that Osbournes get called "os".
Both bands are great but Black sabbath did create a new sound. I read somewhere that coven record company stop selling the album because of the Manson murders.
I wish people could stop speaking about Coven in relation to Sabbath. Sabbath did metal (hard rock, heavy rock, whatever you wanna call it) and Coven did psychedelia. Dark psychedelia, but psychedelia nonetheless, they sound nothing like Sabbath.
No one is saying nothing about Coven creating heavy metal.
People see coincidences as patterns all the time.
No one is saying coven created metal. We're saying they stole their image. Know the damn difference
@@chriskimmel7252 Stole what? Maybe Jinx stole the horns from John Lennon because the album of the Beatles with John doing it came out before Coven's "Witchcraft" album
It’s all based around blues rock at the end of the day. Psychadelic or metal back in those days still sounded similar so yea people are obviously going to compare them. It’s only natural
If it was me I'd want to hold that album to inspect it, but he made no effort to.. Hmmm..
Yes, sort of a "What have we here?" But he brushed if off like last week's lasagna.
I REALLY doubt he had not heard of Coven or in particular Jinx, till that interview. The Satanic music circle was pretty limited, Coven were doing pretty hard core stuff....... and lets face it, pretty much everyone would have been trying to bang Jinx back then - man she was hot. Not sure why people do this. You often see it with film directors who claim not to have seen a really famous film prior to theirs and deny any 'inspiration',
Terry Burns But Black Sabbath named there band before Black Sabbath the song was released
And Sabbath isn't a Satanic band, lol.
@@idonteperfect6943 they changed name to BLACK SABBATH after COVEN in 1969 and back at the day they were called THE ENGLISH COVEN, really COVER were much more famous than BS
@@keniasindra black Sabbath was from the movie of terror black Sabbath (1963)
@@keniasindra coven were a underground band wtf.
I guess you have never heard of the Movie BillyJack and the theme song One tin soldier by Coven.
The only people who call Ozzy "John" is his two brothers, Anthony and Paul, and his three sisters, Jean, Iris, and Gillian. All of the other people who surrounds John Michael Osbourne (Sharon, Kelly, Jack, Aimee etc.) call him "Ozzy" constantly and he is known under this name all over the world. So this nickname of his, "Ozzy", isn't something he got after forming Earth or Black Sabbath, it's much, much older than that.
Sharon was obviously calling him John in one scene in the Osborne's.
Quite a number of people already were nicknamed "Ozzie" before Elvis was born.
Especially if their last name was Osborne/Osbourne...
@@kenlieck7756 Which is nothing unusual in English nicknames. Jimi Hendrix was born Johnny Allen Hendrix, later James Marshall Hendrix, so James became Jimi. Tony Iommi is actually Anthony Frank Iommi, and people would sometimes mispell or mispronounce as "Tommy Iommi" or even "Tony Lommi". Bill Ward is actually William Thomas Ward. Geezer Butler is actually Terence Michael Joseph Butler, basically the only one who didn't get the nickname from his full name.
When Ozzy Osbourne is spelled "Ozzie Osbourne" on early press albums and posters, it was considered a misspell. On the other hand, Oz Osborne is actually Gregory Louis Osborne according to Discogs. So just like John Michael Osbourne, it's from the surname, but then again, they don't share the same spelling. I guess this is exactly because their ancestors were already English and American generations ago.
Deep down, it's really more about legal issues, isn't it? If it is true that Black Sabbath and Ozzy Osbourne did "steal the name", then Coven could just sue them, couldn't they?
Ozzie and Harriet came out in 1952.
They played some gigs together before they became more well-known.
Prove it?
@@ulrickennedy5155 czcams.com/video/4XLn6sVxNGw/video.html This interview with Jinx proves it was not a coincidence.
Black Widow, yes. But Coven?
Coven wrote Witchcraft in 1967
She wanted to create a gothic rock opera to teach people the spells and incarnations including the Black Sabbath that they preformed onstage.
That's why Jinx calls Witchcraft destroys minds and reaps souls her scholarly work. So everything on the album she did live. And that's according to Jinx and her photos.
The Jinx also does not live in reality and tells a lot of tall tales
"Ozzy" is a nickname John Michael Osbourne got from his school friends when he was in primary school, that means when he was 11 or 12 years old, which also means that the year was 1959 or 1960. Doesn't look like 1969, does it?! His parents always called him "John", his first wife called him "John", but he always like his nickname "Ozzy", which he got used to early in his teenage years (15-16 years old). All of his friends and then band mates began to call him "Ozzy" CONSTANTLY after 1967-1968.
Killing Cannibals What is wrong with you lol
@donnagogrl Puhleez. I'm a huge Black Sabbath fan but you're spinning like Bill O'Reilly. The fact that Tony lied and acted like he'd never heard of Coven tells me all I need to know.
Coven's first album didn't come out until fairly late 1969 and as far as I know it was not even released in Britain. It is highly unlikely that they had ever even been there at that point, let alone "well known all over England in 69." I know plenty of people who were involved with the UK music scene in that era and none of them recall Coven during that period. What are the true odds that Coven influenced Sabbath in ANY way, shape or form?
But this is not even an argument! And what if this would be true (about the label [Besides, she claims that it's true, we don't know if it is, I can claim earth is flat]). Let say that label gave them ideas on image and other things based on Coven, the label could tell them, where they got their ideas, and could remain silent. And BS would never have known about any "Coven" band.
@@Invocated_Agitator ". Let say that label gave them ideas on image and other things based on Coven, the label could tell them, where they got their ideas, and could remain silent."
If they did that, what makes you think that the ideas for the image weren't based on Black Widow, but instead on Coven? Since Black Widow was much more well known and notorious in Britain at that time.
@@mmestari Lmao, I don't know Black Widow nor do i give a fuk, that's not what i was discussing! Coven, Black Widow or damn ABBA that's besides MY point bruh.
There have alway been loads of stories about Black Sabbath being predated by similar bands and doppelgangers; don't forget the Magic Lanterns with John Osbourne.
Please tell us more about Magic Lanterns. What was their music like and are/were there any recordings and or with them?
coven y black sabbath muy extraña coincidencia
@covenmusicvault So what happen when Oz and Ozzy met at the Whiskey in 1970?
It seems extremely unlikely to me that Black Sabbath had even heard of Coven when they changed their name to Black Sabbath and recorded their eponymous debut. Coven released their first album in 1969, on June 15th. Black Sabbath played their first show under that name on August 30th. It seems ludicrous to suggest that within the span of no more than 11 weeks, Black Sabbath heard of a then-obscure American band and subsequently decided to change their band name/stage names/musical stylings as a result.I feel like people don't know how slow the flow of information was back then; nowadays some nobody can put an album on the internet and anyone from around the world can listen to it, but that was far from the case in the '60s.
Totally different things... doesnt matter who did first...
Just a happy coincidence
His body language says it all.
is this before Headbangers ball.they had late night rock blocks.
Tony looks a wee bit nervous when talking about this album.
@Nguli34689 Coven's album was released in summer of 69. Your source is incorrect.
If the band " Black Sabbath " were inspired by the film ( Which had the title of " Three Faces of Fear " in the UK...Black Sabbath being the US title. Then WHY did Sabbath take a photograph in 1970, IDENTICAL to the Coven Album Cover/ Poster that was ALL OVER England??
Yeah..that film was called ''Three Faces of Fear'' in 1963 when it was released. Sabbath didn't see it til 69 and it was in a random local theater in Birmingham...I doubt they had posters from 63 lying around for a film no one saw. As for Tony's reactions...he clearly isn't lying when he looks at the album...if anyone knew anything about Iommi, it's a fact he has limited speech as many left handed people do. It's pretty much a normal reaction from him tbh. He's being accused of plagiarism right out of the blue on tv, i'd probably react weird too, especially with the coincidences. But regardless, no one heard of Coven then or now. All you need to do is read some of the bands lyrics to know Geezer was obsessed with Esoteric/Occult literature...so much accuracy that he had to read actual books all the time, as opposed to doing it just to rip off some unknown band's image.
@DB557 Lester Bangs said in his 1970 review of Black Sabbath's album that and I do quote " Something like England's Answer to Coven." Pretty obvious there that there was something going on, since Coven came first, and judging by this interview clip, Iommi isn't a very good tale teller.
It's like budgie and rush existed around the same time but Budgie had no knowledge of rush because it was pre internet and they were busy actually being a band, yet they sounded extremely similar etc.
Budgie sounded nothing like Rush. Rush was a prog band, while Budgie were just playing simple hard rock.
Yikes, his body language and facial expression gives it away, and the feigning surprise that no one is buying
I agree
Tony Iommi said that their
original band was called Earth.
No internet, mainstream radio and TV wouldn't play their songs. British magazines from underground might mention Coven, but that doesn't mean Sabbath would read it. In Hongkong, literally NOBODY knew both Sabbath and Coven in the entire 70s, unless you were really deep into underground rock music.
Um, Coven, opened up for The Yardbirds when Jimmy Page was in the group. The last year they toured with him was 1967. The two people Jimmy Page hooked up with to form Led Zeppelin (outside of John Paul Jones) were John Bonham and Robert Plant who were from where? Birmingham which is where who else were from?
@@alexkx8599 They did?! Damn!
@@CannibaLouiST what alex is forgetting is that birmingham has a population of 2.92 million people.
Coven are great. But Black Sabbath got the name from a Hammer Horror movie of the same name.
They are unlikely to have known about the band (no interwebs etc) and Coven were unlikely to have been getting coverage on radios and magazines then, especially with their themes.
Iommi felt uneasy there. 😬
Tony also played with Jethro Tull
for a short time.
So even if Sabbath knew about Coven, what's the big deal? Maybe Sabbath admired them but the bands don't sound anything alike. Even the lyrical content is very different, Sabbath wrote 4 or 5 songs about the Devil (at least in their early works), most of their stuff is about personal experiences, the evil of mankind, drugs and society, Coven entirely based its career on occult themes.
Acaban de anunciar gira por todo USA el dia de hoy 8-30-2023.
Esta banda en sus tiempos recibio una censura brutal por obvias razones.
Back in 1967-68.
"Can I copy your homework?"
"Yeah just change it up a bit so it doesn't look obvious you copied"
"Ok"
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
It's hard to say for certain, but Jinx said she knew that Sabbath was the European version of Coven, however, Sabbath blew Coven out of the water with their sound, meaning Sabbath was the better band and invented METAL, IMO. Coven was not really metal.
That’s not the argument. The argument is whether Black Sabbath were inspired or even knew about Coven and were influenced by them to a certain extent. Plus you do realize metal/rock has it’s roots in blues and some psychedelic sounds… soooo yea i mean case in point jimi hendrix… psychedelic and was considered proto-metal…
@@esoterica412 I just mean for guitar sound alone, Iommi invented it.
@@esoterica412 Id say more inspired by arthur brown than coven, He was doing the occult thing in the UK
tony you big liar.. -.- :D
He said it wasn't the same Ozzy because the album said os and that doesn't mean he knew who the guitar player was
Its oz
if you would ask of influence you should ask Geezer he was the lyricist
You absolutely right. I do believe that Tony isn't aware about Coven, but Geezer...
....But Iommi had the FUXKING RIFFS for satan sakes!!!!!!!!
@DB557 Lester Bangs is pretty renowned. I don't agree with his negative opinion of Sabbath's debut, but he certainly tended to know what he was talking about.
He said he had never seen the album before, but he also said it was a different Ozzy Osborne playing guitar on it. If he hadn't seen it before, how would he know? The only clue she gave him was that it came out in 1969 and that the band were from Chicago.
Tony would know if his childhood friend, and ten year bandmate had put out a record in Chicago while they were playing together.
Sabbath didn't even come to the US until 1970.
"He said he had never seen the album before, but he also said it was a different Ozzy Osborne playing guitar on it."
Because other name is Oz Osborne, not Ozzy OsboUrne. Because he knows all the bands that Ozzy has been in. And Ozzy can't play guitar.
You are either being plain stupid or you're just being sarcastic
You don't think Tony would have known if his long-time bandmate had been to Chicago and played bass in a different group?
Jinx Dawson has said that Coven and Sabbath played a show together at the Whisky in LA. That is a lie. Coven never played at the Whisky. I know that because there is no setlist nor any promotional poster from that show. Sabbath has only played at the Whisky once, and that was in december of 1970, and the only supporting band that is listed on that show is Ashton, Gardner And Dyke.
As for the Black Sabbath moniker; Coven released their first album in the summer of 1969. The song "Black Sabbath" was rehearsed and performed live by Earth sometime in the spring of 1969, as were many of the other songs that appeared on their first album, which was recorded in October 1969. The name is taken from a Mario Bava movie with the same name. Coven's first album was not distributed well, and I would be surprised if it made it as far away as England at the time.
And, not to forget, Geezer Butler wrote 95% of the band's lyrics. He was an avid fan of the occult, which he definitely had to be in order to come up with such lyrics. The lyrics is a bit too advanced to be just superficial ripoffs from another band.
So, I'd say it is very clear that Sabbath did NOT rip off Coven.
I've tried to find information to verify Dawson's claims but ofc this was back in the late 60s... not a lot of people keeping records of this kind of stuff.. its important to note that sabbath didn't record or release their debut album until a full year after Coven's Witchcraft..
Also, there are only 3 official shows by Coven's original lineup... these 3 are from 1969 and 1970.. Jinx has said multiple times that the show they played with Black Sab was when Sab replaced Alice Cooper.. I did some digging and found the show in Chicago Monday 29 December 1969 NOW there isn't any record of Sabbath playing this show.
Interestingly enough Sabbath's final show of 69 was in Aug @ a YMCA in Scotland. By this time they already changed their name to Black Sabbath and wrote most of their first album
Officially black sabbaths first show in the united states was nov 1970... almost 4-5 months after Coven's last show.
Something's not adding up.... lol
Sabbath was the greatest band in rock history but you can't say that Coven didn't slap. They did. Hard.
Sorry Black Sabbath Ripped Them Off.
It only took 50 years but now Jinx Dawson is being recognized for her influence in rock and heavy metal.
Now if only the critics would actually listen to her music.
The vocals in her 1969 album Witchcraft. Jinx I believe is the
First person to use the heavy metal
Type distortion so predominantly.
It's not the folksy blues distortion of say The great J Joplin.
Singing a distorted lyrics to
Give it a demonic sound like she did in her 1969 album.
In Choke Thirst Die is the first Time I have heard this on an album.
If I'm wrong please correct me.
@ 3:09
Coven: Choke Thirst Die
Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls.
czcams.com/video/JpbilQ1m5SM/video.html
Cover is a hippie rock band not metal.
Coven is a psychedelic rock band with occult lyrics, it has nothing to do with metal or even hard rock
As guitarplayer of Coven said to me, that fact Tony is a lier in this video means nothing but a personal thing from Iommi as a rock star.
А подробнее можно? Я кстати ещё читал где-то на ютубе что было время когда Ронни Джеймс Дио любил с ними потусить, правда я этой инфы больше нигде не нашел
@@XxxXxx-hm3cv да мы всё афтепати в "Городе" болтали ни о чём, об Айомми спросила просто так, угостив гитариста Coven американской сигаретой. Жаль, что Джинкс потом не вышла, с ней только лойсами обмениваемся. Здорово, что успела побывать на концерте одной из самых любимых рок-групп.
@DB557 You did say that Lester Bangs didn't know what he was talking about. Though personally I can't stand the man...he did nothing beneficial within his writings...but I have to agree with him with his comparison.
So, did the record company tell the band to claim ignorance to Covan?
(If you think Black Sabbath stole anything then you obviously haven't been in a band. When your on circuit or your listening to new bands you see and hear stuff and it just influences you I think even subconsciously sometimes too.)
OZZY was bass player to THE MAGIC LATERNS.theres clear to see its OZZY on MAGIC LANTERNS clips that can be found here on YOU TUBE.
Ozzy Osbourne wasn't in The Magic Lanterns. That was debunked.
what does the video and the book says about the gig??
Liar of Malmsteen is playing in the back ahah
IS this the interview where his dog "KILLAH" comes out?
Oz Osborne is the name of the bass player. :) John Osbourne started to call himself Ozzy in 1970.
Osbourne is their surname, and Ozymandias is a sonnet from the 18th century. Tons of people throughout the century has Ozzie as nickname, too. A Mr Oswald can be nicknamed Ozzie, too.
@@CannibaLouiST But Ozzy Harvey Oswald just doesn't have the same ring to it...
Ozzy was his name from school I heard. So many different stories bloody hell
John had self-tattooed the name Ozzy on his knuckles in prison. That was around 1965, if I remember the source correctly.
We want KILLER the dog!
Blimey!
by looking on BLACK SABBATH old videos I could not see any thing tattoed on OZZY knucles
Look up the Paris 1970 clips. His fingers are tattooed
John Michael Osbourne got his nickname "Ozzy" from his school mates when he was 11-12 years old, while he was in primary school. Why "Ozzy"? Let me explain to you a true fact, because I've read alot about him and about Black Sabbath. His FIRST nickname while he was in school was "Ozz-Brain", which is almost a play on words from "Osbourne"; the pronounciation of "Ozz-Brain" and "Osbourne" has some similarities. If you're smart, you'll understand what I'm talking about.
NO BRAINS HE'S A FUCKING COPY CAT BRAINDEAD EGGPLANT!
Coven did progr rock, not starting the metal genre
Who's talking about sound? It's about imagery
How is Coven prog? Lol. It’s a hard rock/occult rock band. If they had remastered albums out today, people would be calling them heavy metal.
@@decrox13 You can't be serious? Just listen to it
Both are great bands.
Tony was ready to call her the C word, many hails Jinx, your the OG metal Satanist
Haha of course he knew,,his body language,looking around like.."hey what is she doing here,,lol"
Signed bands in that era without internet knew better,,,
Coven 1967-1975
Too much drugs caused him amnesia or there's the possibility he was lying
Tony is lying here, unfortunately.
Iommi is a terrible liar. He knew what she was talking about.
Now, Coven’s debut album, Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls, is widely regarded as terrible (because it is), but it was released in August 1969. Earth changed their named to Black Sabbath in August 1969. :)
why do you think that album is terrible?
@@odysseasandroutsos1821 People go into that album thinking its gonna be super heavy mettal mannn and not realize its essentially Jefferson airplane/the doors kind of psych rock mixed with blues.
i like it. one of my favorite albums.. but im really into prog rock.. Witchcraft isn't really that proggy but it has its moments. def in my top 10
@@voidburner8271 you got a nice taste of music, friend! To me Witchcraft is connected with memories, back in winter, when I discovered it. I remember it like it was yesterday! Doesn't time fly?
Obviously they both came from the Boris Karloff movie 6 years prior since at that time neither one had heard of the other! czcams.com/video/_OiHsPxt81A/video.html
C'mon Tony, you oughta like them! At least impressed they were doing something similar image wise. Their music wasn't nearly as good though.
Coven had a cult following.
Delicate way to fell like a cheater, Iommi Cowboy! Hee-Haw!!
Black Sabbath always dennied Coven's influence but I think that the evidences are unquestionable.
First, it was a simple fucking nickname like any other nicknames, but now "Ozzy" is both his stage name, his solo band and the name John Michael Osbourne has got used to after 4 decades of using it. It's also the name which made John Michael Osbourne famous all around the world.
Mmmm, Sharon refers to him as "John" in one of the episodes of "The Osbournes"...
@@alexkx8599 And Tony refers to him as Oz and Ozzy.
Wait wasn't Black sabbath a popular occult based horror movie that inspired Black Sabbath, Black widow and coven? it's probable they all took influence from the same source as opposed to ripping each other off!
That host is so Annoying...
Sounds like an immature 13 year old...
She must have had a connection to get that job..
You dont speak to King Iommi like your reading a bedtime story ..
Dubious but possible that Black Sabbath was unaware fo Coven. If they were, they should have credited them, but at any rate Black Sabbath was so far superior to Coven that there is no comparison. I would say that Coven may have musically influenced Jefferson Airplane, but once again Jefferson Airplane was so much better that it still lacks comparison. Even this interview with Tony has nearly ten time the views (as of this writing) of Coven's - Witchcraft Destroys Minds & Reaps Souls (full album).
czcams.com/video/RJd5sifuKw4/video.html
with 2,369 views.
It's very possible they didn't as shindig magazine said in a recent sabbath article they were more in the Jethro tull, black widow crowd. in fact black widow who have more in common with coven hadn't even heard of them back then either.
I love Black Sabbath, one of my favs the catalog is so huge & all over the map in phases it's hard to compete. But what do YT views have to do with a band's merit? Sabbath was always hustling to be rockstars & why they kept distance from the occult for that reason despite thier edgy gimmick. Ozzys celebrity status & the genres constant admiration for Sabbath absolutely what gave Sabbath such staying power despite the bands rocky ride through the 80s & 90s. (Being tied to Dio also was a huge lifeline for them) Coven was balls deep in the occult getbup in a time it was unmarketable. I dont believe for a second Tony didn't recognize them, rockers back then were shy on sharing thier true inspirations unless they were dead
ok Toni may have heard of Coven...but you cant compare them ...i like Covens album...but Sabbath's first album and then Paranoid then followed by Master of reality....nothing else on the planet was putting stuff like Sabbath....yes you had Blue Cheer...yes you had Black widow...etc..etc...but nobody could punch it like SABBATH!!!!!HAIL THE GOAT!!!!
Coven were opening up for the Yardbirds in 1967. Were they performing their song, "Black Sabbath", then? How about the fact that Robert Plant and John Bonham were also from Birmingham as well as Earth who would become, Black Sabbath?
You say Coven opened for Yardbirds in 1967, but did you know that Coven released their first album in 1969? And by 1969, Black Sabbath had already written all tracks that appeared on their first album. The song "Black Sabbath" was written and performed live while they were still called Earth. Seriously, stop this nonsense.
@@TERRMINAITER96 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coven_(band)
Plus: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_Destroys_Minds_%26_Reaps_Souls
@@TERRMINAITER96 I am thoroughly aware that both Black Sabbath and QUEEN's first l.p.s were the studio recordings of their live acts.
@@alexkx8599 So wikipedia says it was released in the summer of 1969. Well. Sabbath had played their songs live since they were called Earth.
Ahahaha. But please, but who knew the Coven in 1970 ??? Why would the Sabbaths have to copy an unknown group? They are different in all, the similar traits, linked to the occult, are mainly dictated by the fashion of the time and by the record companies.
If that is the case why is there an interview of Jinx talking about them playing with Black Sabbath because at that time Alice Cooper had to pull out, and she also talked about when the two Osbornes came face to face. They were not an unknown group.
czcams.com/video/4XLn6sVxNGw/video.html This interview with Jinx proves it was not a coincidence.
@@ravenshadowz2343 it was a coincidence.
@@pnduarte4696 It's the convenience of hindsight, Black Sabbath, Coven and Black Widow, even Budgie all took influences from the same sources. Its like people compare Budgie to rush even though they had never even heard of them until they were two records in.
@@pnduarte4696no such thing as coincidences
Hahaha this clown pretends he doesnt know 😂
coven is weak.. it's just Doors with woman singer. nothing special..