How much capacity?
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- What capacity gun should you carry? I may not have specific answers here, but taking a few tips from Claude Werner, you may reconsider what firearm you really need on a day to day basis.
I put links to a PDF of The Armed Citizen - a Five Year Study, to his podcasts on Negative Outcomes, and to a video by Joel Persinger on the "Always Gun."
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Joel Persinger discusses the "Always Gun." • Shooting the gun I car...
Music - Sunspot - artist unknown - CZcams creative license
You can contact Greg at Lionquestfitness@gmail.com
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I'm enjoying your channel. I've been serving as a police officer since 1988 taking some time off for awhile as a plain clothes security officer and some uniform security. For the past 15 and half years I've been patrolling the streets and will be retiring in 3 an half years. Started out with a smith 686 357 and I went back to it 2 years ago. I worked exclusively in the projects here in the south for 10 years. According to one study you are likely to be struck by lightning more than you are being shot. Best way to not be in a gun fight is to always be aware of your surroundings. Choose carefully where you go and always be armed.
Good advice.
Personally I prefer revolvers. There are two main reasons. The fail point on a semiautomatic is the magazine. I had two instances that the magazine caused an issue. The first was while working and getting in or out of the car multiple times ( this is only a guess ) the magazine release was depressed and the mag unseated. It is possible the mag had not been firmly seated. However I do check before I start My day that it’s seated. Best guess is depressed the mag release
The second incident with the same semiautomatic ( H&K VP9) the mag plate broke or came loose. All I am sure of is the plate was gone this was on a mag in a holster not in the gun; the spare.
A freak accident but shows even strange things happen.
The other issues are failure to feed, various malfunctions , limp wrist etc. . The point is due to a quest to increase capacity we also increase complexity and additional fail points. These issues don’t exist with revolvers. It’s one of the reasons I believe it’s wise to always carry a spare magazine if you carry a semiautomatic
The additional issue is one I don’t hear much about but since most shootings occur inside of 6 feet.
The first is failure to fire when struggling due to the slide getting out of battery. It is far easier than I thought it. Just a push back on the slide and it would not work. I learned this in a force in force class
That’s why a carry a revolver. If I was a soldier I could see the need for capacity but I just want to get away.
Good points. all guns being mechanical objects can have catastrophic failure. This often gets brought up with revolvers, but they are comparing two different things. The weak link with a semi-auto has to do with being magazine fed and the possibility of a jam or double feed. This is not a mechanical breakdown, but is most often caused by how the user holds the gun, a gun that needs cleaning, how the magazine was loaded or seated, and or the ammunition. It is not a catastrophic failure, but one that is common. So they are comparing a common failure to a catastrophic failure which means the gun is broken.
Yes I agree!! Here in the communist state of New Jerky where the law is a maximum of ten rounds I feel 7 or 8 rounds of 357 Magnum beats 10 rounds of 9mm. Rich
I’ve had the mag pop out of my LCP more than once, and one time w/a S&W .380, when carried in a soft pocket holster.
@@oldcop18 I appreciate you saying that, I have always been apprehensive about auto-loaders. I think a lot of that goes back to my Army days. I carried a 1911 in a right - handed holster and I'm a lefty. Lol
mtc4Him ! I had the same experience in Viet Nam as a Navy Corpsman serving w/the Marines. I’m a lefty too but had to carry my 1911 in Condition 3 in a RH flap holster.
My Always Gun is a 5 shot snubbie. (Either Ruger LCR or a S&W J-frame) I've always been a numbers guy, and I Know that statistically speaking I will never have to draw my weapon. And even if I Do, that yes, 2-3 shots should be enough. Having said that, I still carry a couple of full speedloaders. I dry practice drawing, and reloading, every day. Why? Because I love your tagline. "Always be prepared for the unexpected." I've lived enough to know that Plan "A" rarely works out. Life is how we handle Plan "B" & "C."
LOL - I love plan A, B and C. You're a man after my own heart. And yes, in every undertaking life throws those curve balls and you definitely have to have those back up plans and be able to change directions. I career mentor teenage students as part of my job and I emphasize back up plans if the college or job they want isn't there waiting for them. I also teach that in critical decision making for public safety.
Though I embrace classic Smith and Wesson J, K, and N-Frame .38's and .357's, were I myself purchasing a new .38/.357 revolver today in 2020 I would go for Ruger's SP-101 .357 Magnum revolver "stainless steel" with 4.2" barrel. This is a five shot revolver with full underlug. At 30 oz. unloaded it resemble a kit or trail gun and is intermediate in size between a Smith and Wesson J and K frame, and is more on the order of a Colt D-Frame: the old Colt Police Positive Special in .32 and .38 comes to mind. Despite it's five shot cylinder capacity it would still serve well as not only a handgun for the triple purposed of "self defense/house protection/concealed carry" but likewise for the outdoors: fishing, camping, hiking, backpacking, hunting small game: next to a .22 or .32 the .38 Special 148 grain lead target wad-cutter is ideal for rabbit, squirrel, and grouse. Also, for dispatching vermin such as raccoon, skunk, possum, feral cats, etc. Even for butchering livestock. Loaded with CCI's classic .38 Special shot or snake load: No. 9 shot for killing venomous reptiles such as rattlesnakes with a head shot. No, Ruger's SP-101 .357 Magnum with 4.2" barrel makes sense for the individual, or even family, who owns but one handgun . It's sensible and practical as this double-action revolver with 5 shot swing out cylinder has a simple basic manual of arms and can be utilized by both parents, and their children who are trained in firearms safety, especially during a crisis or emergency! Lets be realistic: firearms are expensive investments and don't come cheap. Plus an individual or family doesn't require an arsenal for the above purposes mentioned. Conclusion: Beware of the person who owns only one firearm, for they probably know how to use it.
James A. "Jim" Farmer Merrill, Oregon (Klamath County)
czcams.com/video/BkmDSN2Ghu4/video.html
The above link is to Ruger's SP-101 .357 Magnum with 4.2" barrel, stainless steel, with five shot swing out cylinder. Barrel has underlug and target sights. Everything I alluded to on this kit/trail gun has already been explained in detail above. Again, a 5 or 6 shot revolver (hopefully) won't attract the same negative anti-gun consternation in certain regions, such as say the Colt AR-15 for example. True a rifle or shotgun is preferable, but not always practical. With a locking plastic box case and key lock the revolver can be locked and transported inside the trunk or tool box of the car or pickup (unloaded). This is especially so in anti-gun California. Of course, the Northern California counties aren't nearly as bad as the metro/urban centers such as San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Jose, Berkeley, etc. Revolver is also good choice for the road traveler inside their RV, SUV, travel trailer, motor home. They can transport revolver locked away unloaded while driving on the road, freeway, or highway during the daytime and reload it while turning in bed for the night. A break open double-barrel side by side or over and under shotgun would likewise be a sound, sane, sensible choice for the interstate road traveler. Just my thoughts.
Hey Greg I'll be saying goodbye for awhile. My health has gotten worse and even watching videos is hard. You've been a good friend!! I wish you and your family all the best. I did want to tell you one thing. On GunBroker last week I saw a Colt buntline for sale, it was a 22 and had been owned by Sammy Davis Jr. He apparently had quite a collection. Also they had a 45 owned by Dan Hart the Lone Ranger. Pretty cool. Take care my friend!! Rich 🔫🔫🔫
I have had some negligent discharges! And I accept them because I learned from each of one
And you are a wise man!
That model 10 was my weapon when I was in the Army.
It is a sweet handling revolver. It is too bad they don't make the K frame snubbies anymore.
@@LionquestFitness You are so right! I had a model 13 like this one that was one of my all time favorites, I don't have it anymore. I am down to my trusty Ruger LC9 and two magazines these days. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_13
I have decided to stay out of Walmart while I am wearing my chest pack. www.amazon.com/dp/B076GYL639/?coliid=IQR9XRCZFXNX9&colid=3HZ9CAT7Q8OID&psc=1 It works great and even has a "discreet compartment" in the back.
I have considered, maybe, not carrying in Walmart and the like and consider it the same as government buildings. I have my cane, knife and stun gun. I am not so sure stun gun would work out for me, however, it may have a deterrent effect. I did not see all the news item about it, however, it seems a man went into a Walmart armed recently.
One of the most chilling stories I ever heard was from a former police officer (second hand) that investigated a shooting where the victim was found in his house. 20-30 firearms were found hidden throughout the house hidden or laying around somewhere surrounding him. This left police to conclude that the reason he was vulnerable and murdered was because he did not have a firearm on his person - directly on his body. I like you carry 24-7 even to mow the lawn or take out the trash. And especially if I'm going out and about somewhere where I'm going to be secluded. Learned that one the easy way. But that's a story for another time. lol
And there I thought I was the only one to pack when mowing the yard.
I really like that revolver, we don't to see much real blue anymore. It's funny how all you have to do is feature a revolver and all the sudden you're the revolver guy! Happened to me :) Lately I have been really digging into the ammunition specific goats at Strasbourg test, and while it's not real world defensive data, it's very interesting how the incapacitation time of the goats is very well in line with street data for one shot stop data. The choice of ammo probably goes in line with capacity a tad. Good shooting on the range! The most important thing about Glocks is that if they start to fall if you drop it, LET IT DROP, don't grab for it as Murphy's law will certainly get you every time! And good advice to not be at bars, give me two steps mister, don't want to stare down .44.
Caleb Geddings of Gun Nuts Media, who has a bit of an acerbic and snarky personality, made a video one time about revolvers and how it is the firearm a beginner should start with, and given time and proficiency with other firearms, an expert gravitates towards. I tend to agree with the first assertion. The second? I don't know. I do know that no matter how much I train with semi-autos, revolvers are still my main carry gun for a variety of reasons; accuracy, reliability, concealability, safety and being juror friendly being a few of the reasons. But that is just my experience and inclination.
But it is all relative. This past week I had to take numerous trips to downtown Atlanta. What did I carry? My 642 Airweight. Reason 1; I was having to go in and out of various government buildings with metal detectors, and I wanted something simple to pull out of a pocket and lock in a dash before I went in. Reason 2 being that in a strange place, I wanted to appear harmless as possible, should, God forbid, I actually had to use a firearm to defend myself. In the scheme of self protection, driving 125 miles out of state and driving in Atlanta traffic, making sure my car was in in good working order and that I had new tires was more important than the firearm I carried.
@@LionquestFitness - Those are the same reasons I carry my 642, Greg. It's an old reliable for me as those are what I'm accustomed to using. Anyone who masters a snub nose can fire anything with confidence. Atlanta can be a rough town, the fact you carried your 642 says a lot, accuracy over spray and pray always wins my friend.
@@LionquestFitness A S&W J-Frame is my I'm Not Carrying carry gun. :-) I've switched from a 638 to a 649 for a little extra weight for recoil. It can also shoot magnum loads. I think +P is probably more appropriate for me though.
@@Fudmottin That weight makes a difference for Plus P. I don't carry it my 642. If I ever get a 640, I will then.
This was one of your best videos. I really enjoyed the talking points and discussion today. Beautiful model 10 too. Thanks for always putting out good videos.
Thank you. When I was doing Patreon, this was the kind of video I'd try to make. With CZcams it is not always easy to put out a thinking man's video because of the immaturity of many of the people who abide in this environment; albeit the trolling doesn't seem to be as bad as it used to be.
in the old days most of your gun experts had a colt 1911 as their ccw of choice; but they also carried a j frame back up on them at all times.
The 2" barrel Smith and Wesson Model 10 (K-Frame) .38 Special revolver at beginning of this video is certainly a historical, classic, and venerable handgun. Personally
I would choose a 4" barrel in either it's pencil or heavy barrel "bull barrel" configuration. Also, replacing the skimpy S&W factory Magna grips with a pair of Pachmayr or
Uncle Mike's hard rubber combat grips. Thanks for the video. ----Jim Farmer Merrill, Oregon (Klamath County): Long Live The State of Jefferson!
5 shots infinitely more than zero. snubby & a speed strip easy to always carry. 38 spl +p the ammo of choice
I was taught you are the weapon and what you carry is a tool to achieve your goal.
As a civilian- with health issues that has reduced strength, balance and shooting arm ability- the Snubby is a great tool on my bad days.
With lower capacity- one has to adjust their tactics- no different for any type of tool that you select.
I feel confident with a Snubby and reloads with having sharps and my trusty cane - as my daily edc
…… THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXCELLENT-EDUCATIONAL VIDEOS - I appreciate them-!!!
Thank you for watching!
Viewing this video on August 30 2021 was inspirational, best advice and most useful time spent on youtube in a long while and generously providing sourses for further follow up. Just read the "All About Guns" blog article about NYPD updates, particularly data about Officer shootouts. 53 cops fired 319 rounds in 2020. 6 were suicides. 47 fired the other 313 shots, averaging 6.65 shots each though a couple used from 11 to 16 in their encounters. Measurable distances were 7 to 16 feet. This resembles expected data for civilians. 5 or 6 in a revolver is still competitive. Perps don't want to get capped even if suicidal and look for an easy mission or prey. What I carry is determined by where I'm going and how I'm dressed. If swarmed up close by 2 or 3 robber goblins a revolver deflects better but on a battlefield at distance against multiple combatant adversaries, the doublestack semiauto is a more effective countermeasure.
I went ahead and watched it again. It is about time for a redo with me talking faster and less background noise. However, the stats are still similar. I can't recommend Claude Werner enough. He can be dry, dry, dry, just like I can be slow, slow, slow, but he's an analyst and statistician who breakdowns the actual dynamics of negative outcomes.
My always gun, @ age 74 & fully retired, is either a light J Frame or LCP, depending on how I’m dressed & the social situation I’m attending. Neither would be a good choice for a mass shooting incident but better than nothing if the suspect got close enough.
That's for sure.
I really like your videos, when I see a new one come out by you, I always watch and learn. I am retired NYPD...and love your tacts.
Thank you Greg. Nice to see my old carry.
Although I am biased towards revolvers , when I carried at work wearing a suit , I opted for a BKS Starlight semi auto, for it's perfect and comfortable tucked in my small back with out a holster. I selected the semi auto not for the ammo capacity but due to it's flatness that made it easier to conceal in a suit. A few times I ran after snatchers and the weight of the gun did not bother me.at all. When I confronted a gangster who was harassing my place of work, and who was to pull something out of his back pocket. I pulled that Iver Johnson .22 semi auto so fast that he froze. You are right Greg , it all depends on the mission.
What a beautiful gun! Here is a video I found on the starlight. czcams.com/video/kk5aUZrZkO8/video.html
Thanks for doing these videos. Somewhere in one of your comments you said some about revolvers being juror friendly. That’s been my thought all along and is one reason why I like revolvers.
I need to address this in a future video, and have kicked it around a time or two, but haven't been able to articulate what I really wanted to say. According to a friend who serves as an expert witness, a jury trial is not about facts. It about what an attorney can sway a jury to believe, so you want to appear sympathetic to a potential juror. I've been in enough criminal trials to agree with that summation. People's perceptions are different. You have anti-gunners. You have people who aren't anti-gun, but who have the misperceptions that media gives them about guns. You have gun owners who have those same misperceptions and many of the common myths perpetuated by other gun owners. Then you have a percentage of people who are gun people and who understand the complexities of caliber, bullet construction, firearm type and the legal issues of defensive gun use. You can get any combination of those folks. In general, a smaller, lower capacity firearm will appear more defensive in nature, to most jurors and will give an attorney less ability to device a legal theory on how you had criminal intent to terminally harm someone with that firearm.
@@LionquestFitness Makes perfect sense to me Greg. I've been migrating back to revolvers this year. Have a new Rock Island Armory M200 38spl and a new Taurus 856 38spl I've picked up in the last couple of months. The M200 is based on the Colt Police Positive. Thinking of trying a set of Altamont bonded ivory grips for a Colt D-frame on it. I have a set of their oversize grips coming for the Taurus. Fun times. God bless, Rob
@@la_old_salt2241 I tried some Colt grips on the M206 I used to have. I had to alter the grips somewhat. They're close but not quite. According to George at the ESQUAD channel back the in seventies RIA was producing a direct copy of the Colt revolvers and Colt sued them over it. After that there changes in the design of the RIA revolvers.
Late to the party. I just bought one of these model 10-5 2" (2?) revolvers. Mine was made in 1977. Shot great. Thanks for the video. I enjoyed the views you put forth.
Thank you Gregg. I love all of your videos, but this one was the most important one I ever watched. Very important points covered here. Again, thank you.
I put my teacher's hat on for this one. Do check out Claude Werner's Tactical Professor site. There is a lot of good information there. He has some very good commentary on the infamous duel at the dumpster that happened in Texas.
I also like a revolver but the most important thing is mind set that you won't stop until the threat is stopped what ever means necessary use what is available! Thanks for another great video.
That is a very good point, and in Claude Werner's article, the one he wanted to emphasize.
Excellent points, Greg. I understand the fear gripping many, but like you mentioned, these cowards are targeting gun free zones and don't expect someone shooting back. I never feel inadequately armed with my 642 and a couple of speed strips, chances that needing our gun as civilians is practically nill. Great video, Brother.
Thank you Wilfred. If you get a chance read my response to GunSam where I talk about a recent trip where the 642 is all I carried.
I like to come back and rewatch these videos. Good information.
That's an awfully good compliment. Thank you Stephen.
@@LionquestFitness Your experience and common sense allows you to give good, reliable advice.
Funny you shoot a snubby model 10.Last week I picked up a 1979 snubby model 10 in the same condition as yours. I even told the shop I got it at that it was a dragnet gun . Joe Friday and Bill Gannon carried them. This is the city, Los Angeles, California. I work here, I carry a badge."Posted Aug 08 2019 07:36PM EDTVideo Posted Aug 08 2019 06:04PM EDTUpdated Aug 08 2019 11:45PM EDTCHARLOTTE, N.C. (FOX 46 CHARLOTTE) - Police say a gas station customer was acting in self-defense when he took matters into his own hands Thursday morning, shooting two suspects who tried to rob the store.Chaotic moments broke out just before 4 a.m. at the 7-Eleven in the 4800 block of Brookshire Boulevard.Police say the two teenage suspects, first robbed the customer of his wallet before turning their attention to the store clerk.They immediately went straight to him, pointed a gun at him, within inches of his face, very aggressively pointed a gun at him," Sgt. Brian Scharf with CMPD said. They had no idea that customer inside had a lawfully concealed gun until he fired shots at both suspects. Stafford, 16, died inside the store, according to investigators. Harris, 17, got about a mile and a half away on Saratoga Drive before police took him into custody.
Enjoy and treasure that snubbie. Fascinating story about the armed robbery in Charlotte. Were you the one in the store who stopped the attack?
no I was on my way to duty that morn. just you were talking about CCW and this just happened this week. you can be anywhere and may have to go into action to protect yourself.
11:25 the NYPD Officer kia while armed with a revolver was trading shots with a perp armed with a 9mm, and while reloading was rushed and shot outright by his adversary still having cartridges in the pistol. Carrying a back up J frame Smith or D frame Colt second gun was the "New York reload" remedy until the Department transitioned to the politically controversial autopistol, and later hollowpoint bullets.
As always another wonderful video. That is a beautiful model 10. I carry a revolver at times on-duty and off-duty depending on what I'm doing. I believe that when we carried revolvers on the job or amount of rounds fired and our rounds fired to effective hits ratio was much better. As we switched to semi-auto in law enforcement our number of rounds fired went up because we had more rounds available and our hits went down and I believe that was due to lack of training. In the Marine Corps I always carried a semi-auto pistol when I carried a sidearm. Both in my time on the job and off duty I have carried both types of side arms. In the days when wheel guns were the primary sidearm riding not only in the holster's of Law Enforcement Officers but legally armed citizens I believe there was a different mentality. As always it is nice to see another old school police officer putting out good solid and most importantly reasonable information. there are no bad examples only examples of what I want to do and what I do not want to do. God bless you and your family and the United States of America because for all of our problems this is still the greatest nation ever. Semper Fi
I can say it, but I've been out of the field for 15 years teaching. It is good to hear it from someone who is still in the field. I agree whole heartedly with what you said. Also, I never served with the Marine Corp, but I have several students who are now proudly serving their country in the USMC. Thank you for your service and the succinct comments you make on this channel.
@@LionquestFitness Service is a privilege. Thank you for your service,as a LEO, a FF, and most importantly as teacher molding the next generation of Americans, and passing your knowledge on to the world (my self included) .
Very good vid. Greg. Today, I now carry a New York reload that is an auto loader. I feel a revolver carried appendix style is the fastest "to first shot" possible for me. when I run out I'll drop the 6 shooter and go to the auto loader. I also do this because today they like to "gang up" to the tune of 2, 3, and 4, attackers. Especially in home invasions. Others armed today may also have a high capacity semi. So the best I feel I can do is a N.Y. reload.
Sounds like a well thought out strategy to me. Sometimes I carry a Taurus G2C as a reload.
Absolutely beautiful Revolver!
In regards to capacity, the Joe Friday specials are not handicapped, and if there IS a worry, a J frame in a pocket satisfies the need to double my need for firepower.
Excellent information and discussion, Greg. Thanks very much.
Thanks.
“If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught is to fear is his victim.” - Col. Jeff Cooper
Good quote.
Great video, as always, Brother. By the way, the 642 and its siblings are rated for + P ammo. My edc is either a Smith and Wesson 442 or a Rock Island Armory m 206, and I practice as often as possible, so I'm rather proficient with them. I carry two speed strips in my pocket, with 6 rounds each, so my total round count is either 17 or 18 rounds. I figure if I'm in a situation where that isn't sufficient, I"m in over my head anyway. But as an armed citizen who's not a law enforcement officer, I don't think I'm in too much danger of needing more firepower. Also, even with only the J Frame, and no speed strips I'm more heavily armed than the vast majority of people out there.
Thanks for that voice of common sense. I'm going to experiment with other grips on the 642. Plus P is too much to allow me to get shots on target.
I do really like revolvers, and I've basically been shooting+carrying them exclusively since I really got into firearms back in 2017.
However, lately I've been trying not to be so rigid and experiment with semi-autos. The problem I have with semi-autos is that I'm very particular what I want. I'm not a fan of thumb safeties, I don't want two trigger pulls, and I dislike the lack of a safety on Glocks and the like if something gets caught in the trigger guard. I'm heard and see far too many anecdotes of "Glock leg" to want to carry a pistol like that. Compared to revolvers, which have a long and heavy DA trigger pull as the safety, Glocks and the like have short and light trigger pulls.
This is what drew me to the Springfield XD pistols made by HS Produkt in Croatia. The XDs have a grip safety, which solves the problem I have with striker guns. The grip safety allows me to feel safer reholstering (I thumb the back of the slide like there's a hammer), knowing that the gun won't go off if something gets caught on the trigger. I have an XDM in 10mm, and soon an XDS in 9mm.
Will the XDs replace my revolvers? Honestly, I can't say, but probably not. My S&W 30-1 J-Frame is very light, concealable, and controllable. It's a very practical carry piece (unless you hate .32). That, and I still feel most comfortable with revolver triggers.
I guess for me, a semi-auto has a more noticeable advantage if I'm carrying a bigger handgun. Certainly, my XDM would be more practical than an equivalent 10mm revolver like the S&W 610.
The Culinary Instructor where I work, has full size, compact, and subcompact in the XD series. He swears by them. Myself, the culinary instructor and the graphics instructor leave work for "range therapy" once a month. The culinary instructor brings his XD's and his German WWII milsurps, the graphics instructors lays out $3000 worth of CZ's and other high end shooting irons on the table. The Law and Public Safety guy? I bring a full size revolver, a snub and whatever semi-auto that piques my fancy for the day.
Mr. Newton, that Model 10 snubbie looks so much nicer than the one I was trying to get last month. Very nice indeed and almost makes me jealous....LOL. Really fine discussion with good stats to back them up. Every gun owner especially CCW holders should see this video or be educated with a similar focus to at least consider all these topics for an encounter. Thanks again, sir!
Mr Newton, thank you for another great video. I love the topic of the revolver for defense. MY most often carried handgun is a S&W 640 or other J-frame. I have watched most of your videos and they are always interesting and informative.
Thanks for watching. The load less traveled gets bashed a lot these days by instructors who want to train people with the path of least resistance; hence striker fired, high capacity guns are pushed so hard. In a large group setting it is easier to train people with that platform. With a revolver you have to learn fundamentals of marksmanship.
good video. instead of carrying extra ammo, i carry an extra gun. it has been a snubby w/ +p ammo and a keltec 3at on my weak side. this week i have been been practicing with different setups and have decided on keeping the snubby, with the difference of being loaded with 357, and on the weak side carry a keltec p11 w/ a 12 round mag. when colder weather allows, i will probably carry a glock 22 as the primary w/ 357 as backup.
Also, that is a sweet Model 10! I have several older ones, but I’m still looking for a snubbie
That was a hard find and I snapped it up as soon as I saw it. Eventually I want to get hold of a model 64 snubbie (stainless version) to go with it.
Greg, excellent video, very informative and entertaining, I hope you do more like this one. I have a short attention span, 7 or 8 minutes is usually where I bail out but watched all of this one. If you’re not a teacher or instructor at some level you may have missed your calling. Keep on trucking!
Excellent points my friend. 👍
Thank you very much!
I’m always on the lookout for one of those, or a Model 15 snubbie.
Nice!!! I love my model 10 4". A 2" would be icing on the cake. Thanks you your very informative videos!!!!
I love and prefer a revolver, however the semi-auto is faster and seems to conceal a bit easier for me. I use both though.
Whatever works best for you is what you should carry.
@@LionquestFitness I own a Springfield Hellcat with 11 plus 1 rounds but i rarely carry it. Very good gun, but i still find myself going back to my Taurus 856 OWB or my Kahr CM9 OWB. Cant quite get the IWB's to work with my body shape! But I'm working on that. Lots of walk/running, and lifting trees! Cut about 70 percent of my carb intake too.
@@jeffpaul8260 hell along as you carry 🇺🇸🤠
@@Joshh556banana I carry everyday and everywhere unless its a federal property. Even on my tractor.
This was a great vid! Dont know how I missed it, but I'm glad it showed up in my suggested feed.
Thanks Josh. That Model 10 snubbie is a favorite of mine. I waffle on carrying it because it is a rather hard gun to find. The Claude Werner information is invaluable for the concealed carrier.
Thank you Greg. Great information. My EDC carry rotation ranges from 6 rounds to 17 depending on circumstances and what I'm wearing. Nearly all are carried IWB with an untucked shirt.
Ok I've been making smart remarks up until now. Now I'm getting serious. Do I think 5 shots is enough........?
Probably!
That being said at a general minimum I have 11 more just in case and 32 more after that initial 16! So at the end of the day....
At the end of the battle... You will never hear somebody say...
I should have brought less ammo. Will a 5 shot snubby do? Probably, if I can't carry my G19 with a minimum of two G17 mags, I carry an 8 shot 22mag snubby, a 5shot 22 mag NAA Revolver. If I'm forced into that, I usually limp and carry a hardwood walking cane too! Some call me extreme. I call me a man hellbent on coming out on top🇱🇷
@timmybmn I like the way you think sir
@timmybmn Looking forward to it.
Uncle Dan it depends. No firearm is a guarantee. Next week I am going to make a video talking about that. There is a balance between safety, concealability, accuracy, and what your local community deems acceptable. Sometimes defense (the cane and limp) needs to be disguised to appear nonaggressive. My friend Three Pillars who is a Shotokan Karate instructor and quite a shot with a firearm often does the same thing when traveling (walks with a cane), because depending on where he goes, he is limited in what he can carry for defense. Living in an area that's changing from rural to suburban, and surrounded by liberal urban pockets on either side, what I often do is different from what others might do in different circumstances because I take the legal aftermath into consideration, and I definitely could run into some anti gunners in a jury pool.
@@LionquestFitness I agree with that sir👍
@timmybmn I'll be looking for your video sir.
This video went by fast! Informative and fascinating. Thanks, Greg!
Now that was a good compliment because I was worried about it being too long.
Excellent discussion !
Everyone should access their own situation, life style , travels, etc. and decide what's best for them. Then practice, practice and practice some more. If you prefer revolvers and are more comfortable with one, then there you go. Same with semi autos. Know your weapon, not only firing but also handling. Can't go to the range today? Practice drawing from concealment at home (unloaded of course). The key is commitment, practice/ training and carry.
That sums it up well. Thank you Max!
@@LionquestFitness Thank you for all your effort Greg, It's greatly appreciated.
Great job as usual Greg. What a nice, classic Smith.
Thanks Ken. It took me three years to come across that one. LOL - now the hunt is on for a model 64 snub to go with it. But that is the fun of collecting these older Smiths.
A 25 yarder with that Airlite? Man your a better man than I. With this little 3 finger 340 Scandium Smith I could only fire that on that long awful grindy double action. If I connected in the zone I think I would have to tell anyone I was lucky, but now you have me thinking. I am gonna work on some 20 yarders next trip and try it. Can say I have ever actually even thought about taking a shot past about 12 yards over the 500 rounds or so I have thru it. Great Channel , like your style! and the line of thinking makes perfect sense.
Thank you!
I remember reading about the guy in S. Africa that took on the tangos (and came out on top) with a five-shot revolver at the church. As I remember it, he was using a NAA Mini Mag, 22 Magnum. That’s called, ‘getting it done with what you got!’
That said, I’m betting that, in hindsight, he would have rather had a slightly larger caliber arm, with a bit (lot) higher capacity!😄
That's for sure. I'll have to do some research on that firearm. I was under the impression it was a J frame .38, but memory being long and often wrong, I need to check.
Have the link to that story? I’d like to research it a little bit myself.
@@permanenceaesthetic6545 Here is a good place to start en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_James_Church_massacre
Really enjoyed this video. I believe it contained some really good points that you mentioned.
Check out Claude Werner's Tactical Professor site. He's the real expert on this kind of thing.
BTW...I really like your snubby model 10!
It took me three years to finally find one, but it is a prized possession now. Too bad they don't make them in two and three inch models anymore.
Good info Greg. I recently thought it would be in my best interest to put my revolver in the safe and get a semi auto out. They have similar platforms but I went from 5 to 11 rounds without giving up anything. So far I'm thinking with all the stuff going on it gives me a little peace of mind.
And you know Gunther, that is what it is all about. That peace of mind. Whether you are Trump supporter or not, you might find this interesting. He's not really a gun guy, but he carries a J frame airweight and has a full size H&K semi auto as a home defense gun. When asked why he carries, he said it made him feel more prepared.
Greg, I wanted to continue our thread about revolvers that we started on Paul's latest video. I did not want to waste anyone's time and detract from Paul's excellent work. All of that said, besides being well served with a Model 10 revolver, I would also add a 12 gauge Remington 870 and a Marlin 336 in 30-30. To me, and I'm obviously dating myself in the process, those three weapons are all anyone may need for some serious social problem solving. Certainly nothing fancy, low tech by today's standards, but they are time proven and with an excellent performance record.
You've got your bases covered with practical firearms that are more court defensible than some of the modern equivalents. In the legal aftermath, appearances mean a lot to a jury that maybe clueless at best and anti-gun at worst.
The Model 10 or 64 with a four inch bull barrel would also be my first choice of firearm if I were in a tight spot. They're often my conceal carry during the winter months. Should bad go to worse a 12 gauge shotgun would be next. Realistically, whereas I like my S&W AR 15, my stepdad's fifty year old, Marlin lever action 30-30 is more pinpoint accurate and shots on target is the name of the game. So yes, I believe you have good choices for a self defense plan, even in a "Without Rule of Law," situation.
@@LionquestFitness Greg, as an aside, besides the Model 10 and a Model 15, I count on my Model 25 .45 ACP revolver too. Talk about strong medicine.
And keep on posting your videos. You are a great teacher.
@@danmartin3183 Yep, strong medicine!
@@danmartin3183 Thanks Daniel. I work at it.
Hello Greg,you keep bringing out the classics.That model 10 snubbie is sweet.You do bring up some good points.As far as capacity goes,I know some who carry a certain pistol because it holds more rounds than a revolver they are more accurate with.That never made sense to me and I tell them that.And I do have a truck gun,but it doesn't stay in there if I'm going to be elsewhere for a certain amount of time.I will holster it and take it with me.It depends on where I'm going or what I'll be doing.
Thanks for swinging by Mark! I've been blessed as to some of the handguns I've acquired over the last few years. As to capacity, I've been working with an M&P full size 9. It is a good gun, well made and 17 rounds. I shoot it well and would be well qualified to carry for L.E. with it. In fact, an old friend of mine was setting up police qualifications yesterday and was watching me shoot from the rear mirror of the van was saying, "We need that guy on our department. When she got out, she recognized who it was. The bottom line is, I don't shoot it as well as a Model 10 revolver, and if I can get more accuracy out of a revolver, that is what I need to carry.
Great sage advice Greg!
Thank you sir!
Great video. Thanks for your continued content.
Thank you Jonathan.
If I may allow me to suggest a 38 special load that'll is compatible with an alloy J frame revolver. The wadcutter. It recoils very little. In a short barrel revolver most bullets won't open but the wadcutter cuts a full size wound channel and penetrates very well. Check them out for yourself. Winchester makes a good one. I also like Buffalo Bore for a more powerful alternative. Lucky Gunner has some stats from test they've done on the wadcutter. Old school man stopper load. Put em where they should go and they'll cut a deep full caliber hole.
When I do carry a snubbie, I typically carry a S&W Model 638 loaded with wadcutters, along with a speed loader full of Winchester Ranger 130 grain +Ps for backup - should the wadcutters “not cut it.”
Great discussion Greg thanks for posting. Also like your pocket stick (Cold Steel Koga SD1). GB
I found that one at a flea market, but they aren't expensive and sell on the Cold Steel website for $12.99. It also does double duty as something I can roll and massage the bottoms of my feet on at the end of the day.
@@LionquestFitness The have a smaller version available. I have several of both sizes.
www.coldsteel.com/products/walking-canes-by-cold-steel/koga-sd1.html
www.coldsteel.com/products/walking-canes-by-cold-steel/mini-koga-sd2.html
I really really enjoy your videos, I don't think it's so much the content but your delivery of said content. No loud music, no crazy antics just plain good old down home easy to understand and I like that. Keep making your videos and I'll keep watching!!
I appreciate that William - although I get complaints about the folk/rock music I like to use at times.
That saying has some weight as the best gun is the one in your hand as it does mean somethig....Good info and vid sir....Good stuff....
People don't get it. The weight helps stabilize the gun and improves accuracy. But, everyone wants light and small.
Thank you for offering a humble, well detailed and delivered message. Gave me a lot to consider regarding self defense situations and consequences.
I appreciate the comment.
I really believe that, on average, there is an inverse relationship between accuracy and capacity mind set. I have seen it on the range with officers and civilians. We donate our time and facilities to local leo. Also, with the tactical beard and tattoo crowd. Seems like guys with revolvers and 1911s. Usually the same guys and gals, are much more accurate shooters than those with wonder 9s.
LOL - I have noticed that. Not always though. Occasionally I see someone handle a polymer nine well and I compliment them for it. And as a former student of mine who is in the infantry related to me about military marksmanship, "We're only trained to hit the target. We're not expected to shoot with pinpoint accuracy."
@@LionquestFitness , yes, I said "on average", the kids that are good with the 9s are scary good.
@@xtreme4stringbass You are correct. I should have read more carefully. LOL - on the other hand I do see a lot of the other.
Like the way you show how these guns are used and you shoot very well with your guns..have a blessed day 🙏......... 🙏 ✨
Thank you Mike.
This is a timeless video. Great points and ideas. Thank you sir!
Thank you.
Dang this was a great video Greg.
Very good discussion. Thank you for your insight.
You call yours a Joe Friday.
I always call mine Canon, from the TV series Canon.
Model 10 snub round butt. No pin, but no MIM or lawyer lock either.
Back when S&W made quality handguns people could afford.
I really enjoy your content. Thank you for all of the information that you broadcast. I hope you have a great day and I look forward to more of your posts sir.
Great video, Greg! Shooting your self in the leg and dropping the mag would be a really bad way to start off a self defense encounter... Have seen one video of a guy drawing his small CCW semi and dropping the mag as he draws then proceeds to fumble around on the floor trying to get his magazine back. Why heel releases are not back in fashion on small pistols like the LCP is beyond me. After seeing the home encounter videos the thugs usually go running as soon as shots are fired, for more motivated assailants who knows how much it might take. Anyway don't need to worry about carrying up here, then ill be locked up for a good time hah! But seeing all the stabbings happening the first aid kit always comes along. Thanks for sharing!
You my friend are realist. It is always good to read your perspective.
@@LionquestFitness Thanks! Just came to think of something funny, being a guy who likes heel releases and .32 cal handguns it might be genetic for us on this side of Atlantic hah!
@@ThePreparedNorseman LOL - there might be some truth to that.
7:05
Truly a "Lion Quest"!!
LOL - that's for sure!
GREG OF LIONQUEST, I HAVE A TAURUS M82 4 INCH BARREL LEGALLY ACQUIRED, AND INDEED SO RELIABLE AS A HOME DEFENSE GUN!
The 82 is a much underrated gun.
I was 21 and my dad gave me my first gun and it was the model 10 , its a beauty💥💥✌
Love revolvers. Its what I started on and still enjoy those wheel guns the most.
It's funny. I spent half my L.E. career carrying a revolver for duty and the other half a semi-auto and was glad to change over. But when I got back into firearms again after a decade of teaching school, I gravitated back to revolvers. There is just something about wheels and steel.
I always appreciate all your videos you give great advice
Thanks for your continued support Dan.
Great words of wisdom for the common man or lady.
Thank you.
I thought this was worth another watch. I just wanted to point out that the S&W 642 is +P rated. It's stamped on the barrel. I will agree that a steel gun is more controllable with +P ammunition. I also thought I'd mention that if I really felt the need for a "high capacity" semi-auto to go some place, I would not go there if at all possible. I've spent my entire life avoiding the two way range ;-)
When I first bought the 642 I ran some plus P through it with those dinky boot grips that it came with. It was unmanageable for me. Until yesterday I hadn't tried the Plus P with the current grips. They work much better.
Just Carry! I always have a weapon on my person or within 3 feet of me when I can’t have one on me. If you adopt this mentality then you will probably start to appreciate the snubby.
That is very appropriately said. Truth be known, many who espouse high capacity don't actually carry on a daily basis.
love that revolver... great vid, thanks so much!
LOL - I'm still not over that butt chapping you gave me for letting that pristine looking Detective Special pass by. After I got your comment I went back to make a down payment, but it was already gone. I had to scrounge some money, but I made sure I didn't let this one get away.
that was out of pure jealously Greg !!! ha ha ha… about 2 years ago, the only vintage model 29 I have ever seen (in Cali) popped up for sale at a local gun shop. It was still under quarantine, but I called immediately after seeing listed on the web page, and tried to buy it sight unseen ($1500 and I didn't care :-). I was too late by a day.. it sold within the first hour it was listed, again sight unseen. In this state, if you see something vintage you like, BUY NOW !!! ha ha ha
Great discussion Greg. Thank you.
Thank you Bob. I know I'm doing something right when I have your seal of approval!
Ditto on all the previous positive comments. This one should go out to people who don't normally watch videos on this venue/channel. Am also thinking that there wouldn't be much nodding off in the classes you teach.
LOL - after 15 years of teaching high school students you become an entertainer rather than a teacher. On a serious note, if there is enough positive response, I'll try to do more videos like this. Firearm training can be fun and entertaining, but the end result - self-defense - is a serious subject that needs to be addressed on facts and without emotion.
@@LionquestFitness Left some light reading in your Email a few days ago...Am adding some video games to a couple of my opinions.
@@cleondubois1270'll check it out.
I love your vids on revolvers I’m a big fan of them the are a real piece of art and they make me feel good when I carry them and it makes you be a better marksman
Me personally I tend to get better accuracy out of an S&W K frame, as far as stock handguns.
Great informational video! On your stat on “number of shots fired” per encounter, curious as to what the maximum number of shots fired was? Two as your average is still probably pretty correct today!
Also love your model 10, I have the same gun but in a round butt. Which do you like better, square or round butt S&W’s? I find the round butt guns fit my hands the best.
That is a good question. I don't know. Claude Werner does keep those kind of statistics, but I don't where you could lay your hands on them. As for the square vs. round, I prefer round with a grip adapter like B.K. Grips or a Tyler T grip. But, I collect both.
Good info. Thank you for the video
Thank you Rusty. Nice hat btw!
Thank you
Keep up the good work 👍.... good info. Had a intruder in my house 🏠 at 3: 00 am . Used a mod 10. Luckily I didn't shoot him. Am a revolver guy. Have a blessed day 🙏......... 🙏
Good stuff. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you Richard for watching.
Excellent info and discussion. Have you ever watched Active self defense on youtube they cover actual events caught on camera and break down what the person did right and wrong. I wish I could carry but in my business I cannot. I transport cars up to 10 full size transport . The laws for class A are complicated and the places I go all have different rules from what I understand I'm not allowed to carry in the truck. I wish they had a federal concealed carry permit for guys like myself. I often go to NY Chicago Baltimore Cleveland with high end autos like Mercedes BMW Volvo Land Rover. I've never had a issue but I'm smart about what I do. Thanks for sharing 👍
Hi Brian - the USCCA had a recent series of articles on long distance truckers and some of the dangers they face, including violating the law if they have anything in the truck to protect themselves. It may be online via their website. As for Active Self Protection and John Correia, I tend to gravitate towards gun channels with folks who are more down to earth and who aren't trying to present themselves as an expert. John does some good stuff, but he tends to be an elitist. I am more of a "do what works for you" kind of person.
@@LionquestFitness Yes I don't take what he says as 100% right I just like to see the situations people end up in an think about how to avoid or maybe see a situation unfolding . Do you think there's any hope for me to be able to carry in the future after reading that article? Probably not with the Democrats in control and constantly attacking our second amendment rights. I feel like I lost my second amendment rights with my career and I don't think that is right . It's not like I get a police escort to deliver my BMWs in Brooklyn. LOL I know you understand I'm sure you would feel naked going the places I have to go unarmed especially Chicago. Thanks again 👍🤠
@@brianlee6849 Its dangerous out there on the road and is probably going to get worse with professional hijackers becoming more prevalent. Carry wise there are people lobbying for long haul truckers to be able to be armed across state lines. You never know. The backlash against the current move towards gun control may usher in national reciprocity. That pendulum swing is what helped push many states to legalize concealed carry after the 1994 Crime Bill.
@@LionquestFitness I hope you are right. 🤠 Thanks 👍
Depends on your area but im noticing a lot of videos from inner cities and even brazil they come in groups. j frame for me is okay but man sometimes you want to carry a full sized long arm.
There's always a time and place for higher capacity.
True about multiple attactors, but most run when you are not an easy target. Good video.
Is a five shot revolver enough? I think so. I have a speed strip in case it isn’t though. I am no expert but most criminals from the videos I have seen are not looking for a fight. They want easy victims. Once they see that snubbie come out I bet most are getting out of dodge. Speaking of being super concealed I got a LCP not too long ago. That little gun is so small it will fit in any pocket.
I'm going to talk more about that (five shot revolvers) in the next video.
Great video!
Thanks!
Progarm Compliance is king! Have you read "Shooting Back by Charl(?) van Wyk? (theman who returned fire in South Africa). It is a good read! He DID say, he wished he had a reload, though.
As always, a great and thought-provoking video, and thanks for being so timely with your posts, Greg. I carry a Taurus 605, and also because of recent news, I'm VERY interested in your re-assessment of wheel guns (and their capacity) for defense. In the second drill, you reload (albeit after 6 shots) exposed, and then move to cover to your left. Is there a strategic purpose to stay apparently "in the fight" during the reloading before you move?
In this drill, I was assuming there was something to kneel down behind to reload. I moved to the flank because I'd been too long in one position and needed to scan the area as a whole. I need to put more props in place when I do this. Thanks for the observation and comment - it gives me ideas how to demonstrate better.
Makes sense. I was thinking economy of motion because of lower capacity, which is probably also a consideration. I was also imagining Jerry Miculek doing a speedy revolver reload with weapon raised front and center and eyes straight ahead. :) Thanks again for the video and for your response.
@@B6109 That's why I was fumbling and slow on the reload. I've always looked down and am trying to break myself of the habit.
A great video.
Thank you Al!
Parts of my area I do carry more like a Shield or Glock.
Think Like A Cop recently showed a home invasion attempt with seven or eight people working on a door that is far more secure than any door I have. They took out the security camera as well. They even yelled, "police" when they heard the homeowner inside. It was some scary video. I'm not rounds limited at home, so it comes down to how determined they are.
Out and about, I've been of the mindset that five or six rounds is going to be enough in the very unlikely event I need to shoot anyone. The recent mass shootings were each perpetrated by just one person. The rifle does demand seeking cover first. One guy had body armor, so if shooting is necessary, center of mass isn't going to cut it. However, I think well aimed return fire could end it. That would take nerves of steel.
I am looking into a higher capacity option. I've still got work to do on that. It's also a softer shooter than a 38/357 revolver. It also has size and weight issues that I may not be able to overcome in just jeans and a t-shirt.
It's very difficult to do risk analysis when the downside is potentially infinite.
Fudmottin I have an ar15 in the house for a couple seasons. The ammo tests I have seen the 55 grain load won’t go through more than one side of sheet rock due to fragmentation. Handgun ammo will unless you use a specialized ammo that has questionable performance.
Home invasions seem to be the norm to have multiple invaders. I have 30 rounds , a red dot , 600 lumen light and as it’s shoulder fired far more accurate. I want to know each round is going where I fire it.
Shotguns if you use buckshot have the same issues as a handgun. The shot will pass through walls easily and they have similar limited capacity. If you use birdshot it’s the same issue as with specialty ammo. Spotty performance.
Good discussion here. I'll add a couple of things. In one of the scenarios Werner studied there was a home invasion with 7 predators. The would be victim saw them break into the neighbor's home and it gave him time to get his shotgun. He shot and killed two, and wounded one as they were coming through his door. The rest fled. I've changed my perceptions of a AR or AK for home self-defense over the last few years. With the right ammo, there is less chance of penetration through walls. You also stand a better chance against home invaders armed with firearms. On the negative side are having to keep that rifle ready and potentially within reach of unauthorized persons, and a juror's misperceptions and biases in the legal aftermath.
@@LionquestFitness An AR 16" barrel is my goto home defense gun. I have a Trijicon MRO on it and a 500 lumen light. As far as juries go, I'd rather look them in the eye instead of the Grim Reaper.
I don't have any worries about unauthorized access. One has to break into my home for that.
@@Fudmottin Sounds like a good set up to me. I've got grandkids here all the time that I have to consider so I keep most of my firearms under lock and key, except the ones I have staged.
@timmybmn There is an old saying from the Bible. In the multitude of counselors - wisdom is not lacking. I want this channel to be a thinking man's channel with this kind of interaction. We all have to make individual choices and what is right for one might not necessarily right for another, but in the reflection of what is right for the individual, we find the answers that best suits us.
The reality is there is no substitution for good judgement! Situational awareness is a key in survival. If one uses a firearm in most cases they failed in the awareness area. I refer to my five shot LCR as my escape and evasion weapon. It's my last resort!
Thanks Greg for another great video.
I love all your videos sir
A like and a comment to help the channel.
Thank you Stew!
More important...hits on target at that critical moment. Everybody gets firsts...then seconds where required! I know...still got to have enough to go around!