A response to Sam shamoun!!
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- čas přidán 26. 04. 2024
- I just critique where I think Sam is wrong in his analysis of the Catholic and Orthodox Church. He doesn’t think one or the other is the true church. I disagree. The one body of Christ is undivided in every way. Btw this is no attack on Sam. I love the dude, and he’s has helped me a lot. I just disagree on this. #christian #orthodox #jesus #catholic #theway #fyp #debate #samshamoun #jaydyer #jesusisgod
Let me know if you disagree or have other thoughts!! Thanks God bless!
Without violence Islam dies
With or without violence, Islam won’t die and you know it, so keep complaining, maybe it will do something
Hey Alex, I understand Sam will choose either Orthodoxy or Catholicism only once he has resolved the Filioque and the papal primacy controversies to his satisfaction. I would be surprised if Sam has not already heard the arguments you put forward in this video.
CZcams recommendations goated for showing me this vid, subscribed brother
Huge W!! Thank you buddy🫡
This would be my issue with Sam as well, even though I love a lot of the stuff he does. Oddly, youtube recommended a good video, so have a sub brother
Gby brother, as a fellow orthodox im studying and hopefully growing in wisdom. With constant attacks on our faith from arians and mohamedan stone kissers I began to be more open to the RC's and we can agree to disagree ot many topics, but as long as they believe in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, I consider them brothers in faith. I only hope our fellow christians sit on one table and sort these issues for a house divided cannot stand. Peace.
Yah I personally think the debates between Christians should be on hold or at least not a huge concern atm. You’re completely right. It’s Muhammadens, j’s, pagans etc that must be top priority🙌🏾
Respectfully, brother, the only solid objection against the Roman Catholic church you gave here was that if Vatican II actually says the muslims and Jews worship the true God, then that sounds quite indefensible. But since you're a fallible human being you might be wrong in saying that vatican ii says that, so I would have to check for myself. All the other objections can be argued against quite solidly. Oh maybe it's also true that Vatican I makes inaccurate claims about the pope in the first 1000 years of the Church. Even I could come up with counter-arguments for everything else you said.
By the way, Sam doesn't say that both the Catholic and the Orthodox are right (if you got that wrong, you kind of get your credibility down a notch for me). He says whoever thinks the Bible is the word of God, and follows it, and also worships the Trinity, is part of the true Church, but that nonetheless some denominations got more of the fullness of the truth than the others, with the topmost and the only ones worth recommending for him being the Catholic and Orthodox. Not that I agree nor disagree with him on this, but that's his actual opinion
As I'm a sinner to this day, I don't want to be judgmental here. . . but look, the Orthodox(East or Oriental) and the Catholics are Holly Apostolic Churches regardless their schism. In that case Sam is true b/c those traditional churches are pioneers of preserving the Holy Bible. Also, Sam is good in connecting dots on the word of God from different books of the bible and verses of the book to make people understand the word of God. That is his grace from the Lord. But one thing I don't like about him is that when he teaches the word of God, the way he casing people vulgar words is very incompatible with his teachings and very disturbing. I pray for him to avoid these vulgar words.
I think Sam is great. Just disagree with his thoughts on the one church thing
@@Alex_contreras I never heard him saying his Church is better than the others. Which he is Catholic right now, but never say that it is better than Orthodox. Of course, when it comes to protestants, from his own experience as he was a protestant they have a lot of hearsay from his own perspective. For me, as long as he gets rid of those vulgar words when he teaches the word of God, I am good with him.
@@Ortho_1_Christwhy do you call yourself a sinner? Do you still sin everyday?
@@Doc7-mf2fehe’s probs following 1 John 1:8-10
I converted to Orthodoxy as well, I find its very common for Christians who are ethnically from the middle east to be more ecumenist among the apostolic churches.
The word truth or true are exclusive words they are not all encompassing you cannot have 2 contrary things be the truth.
Yeah im a big Sam fan as well he like a textbook for talking to muslims.
Orthodoxy is the true church. The church is the body of Christ.
Papal supremacy is wrong, solo fide and solo scriptura is wrong. The thing that sucks is no one really wants to do any research about Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is not a denomination it is pre-denominational. The Catholic Church is getting more and more heretical and incorrect. Orthodoxy is UNCHANGED.
Amen
Papal “supremacy”? No. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ and he comes to serve the Universal Church. As Christ Himself appointed Peter as the Shepard of the whole Church. Or are you saying Christ had it wrong? And on the Filioque: The Western Church commonly uses a version of the Nicene creed which has the Latin word filioque (“and the Son”) added after the declaration that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. Scripture reveals that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. The external relationships of the persons of the Trinity mirror their internal relationships. Just as the Father externally sent the Son into the world in time, the Son internally proceeds from the Father in the Trinity. Just as the Spirit is externally sent into the world by the Son as well as the Father (John 15:26, Acts 2:33), he internally proceeds from both Father and Son in the Trinity. This is why the Spirit is referred to as the Spirit of the Son (Gal. 4:6) and not just the Spirit of the Father (Matt. 10:20).
The quotations below show that the early Church Fathers, both Latin and Greek, recognized the same thing, saying that the Spirit proceeds “from the Father and the Son” or “from the Father through the Son.”
These expressions mean the same thing because everything the Son has is from the Father. The proceeding of the Spirit from the Son is something the Son himself received from the Father. The procession of the Spirit is therefore ultimately rooted in the Father but goes through the Son. However, some Eastern Orthodox insist that to equate “through the Son” with “from the Son” is a departure from the true faith.
The expression “from the Father through the Son” is accepted by many Eastern Orthodox. This, in fact, led to a reunion of the Eastern Orthodox with the Catholic Church in 1439 at the Council of Florence. Unfortunately, the union did not last. In the 1450s (just decades before the Protestant Reformation), the Eastern Orthodox left the Church again under pressure from the Muslims, who had just conquered them and who insisted they renounce their union with the Western Church (lest Western Christians come to their aid militarily).
However, union is still possible on the filioque issue through the recognition that the formulas “and the Son” and “through the Son” mean the same thing. Thus the Catechism of the Catholic Church states that “This legitimate complementarity [of expressions], provided it does not become rigid, does not affect the identity of faith in the reality of the same mystery confessed” (CCC 248).
Today many Eastern Orthodox bishops are putting aside old prejudices and again acknowledging that there need be no separation between the two communions on this issue. Eastern Orthodox Bishop Kallistos Ware (formerly Timothy Ware), who once adamantly opposed the filioque doctrine, states: “The filioque controversy which has separated us for so many centuries is more than a mere technicality, but it is not insoluble. Qualifying the firm position taken when I wrote [my book] The Orthodox Church twenty years ago, I now believe, after further study, that the problem is more in the area of semantics and different emphases than in any basic doctrinal differences” (Diakonia, quoted from Elias Zoghby’s A Voice from the Byzantine East, 43).
Is a person saved/saved by grace through faith apart? Yes or no?
@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689you are so lost. Go back to Steven Anderson
How can orthodoxy be the one true church when its not even a one church
Deuteronomy 1:15
he says that to avoid division, thats not his actual belief, thisvideo should be deleted, the only reason he doesnt claim the catholic church is the true church is bc it will cuase fights between us
You think Sam has a belief on what the true church is?
@@Alex_contreras Sam has said on many occasions that he attends the catholic church. He's not said that about the orthodox. Deep down, I think he knows where the truth is. Same story for Lloyd De Jongh.
I listen to Sam a lot and he has taught me a lot but I don’t know what I am. I’m a follower of Jesus . What Paul taught . Nothing more nothing else. Also writings of the apostles and Luke of course
Unfortunately that’s just not enough. Cause Christ set up HIS church for a massive reason. To save people and have communion. Read John 6 too. You can’t do that outside the church lol
@@Alex_contreras unfortunately you’re wrong lol before Jesus ascended into heaven, he said love your God with all your heart mind soul love your neighbors you love yourself and make disciples. I find my rest in Jesus now I love my God with all my heart I respect my neighbors and I spread the name of Jesus every day. So we will agree to disagree. Have a great day. Because what you were doing is basically preaching works. I don’t do it that way I’m wrong lol God bless.
@@ReasonsForOurFaithMinistries did Jesus leave us a Bible or church?
@@Alex_contreras bless your heart do the extra stuff if you want to. And Sam can do the Catholic thing. God bless him ; that’s extra stuff to me . That is works . Y’all keep on working. I’m gonna keep loving Jesus, loving my neighbor, spreading the name of Jesus and keeping in scripture . God bless.
The first thing Sam would say to you is to change your profile picture LOL
🤣you’re not wrong. I might have to, juss so I don’t catch that flak
Here's the problem with your logic:
1. The schism between the Catholics and Orthodox was not consciously done; it was the result of the empire splitting and the churches being in different geographical and political locations.
2. You claim that if the church splits, one side of it can cease to be the true church. By that logic, BOTH sides can cease to be the true church because being the true church depends on what you teach, believe, and practice.
3. Jesus never founded an organization that claimed to be the one true church. Paul and the Apostles established numerous churches around the world and none of them were "Orthodox" or "Catholic." Numerous churches who all had cultural and doctrinal variations but were nonetheless TRUE CHURCHES that were able to fall away from the truth. What makes the Orthodox Church special in that regard?
The TRUE Church is not the church that has the longest history; it is the church that follows the teachings of Christ rather than the traditions of men. What evidence do you have that the Orthodox tradition is following Christ rather than man-made traditions? And if Catholics stopped being true Christians, why do you think the Orthodox have no stopped being true Christians? Your arguments remind me of the first century Paul vs Apollos debate.
I think the entire structure of the papacy. One dude being the universal supreme bishop guy is a huge development that wasn’t there for 1,000 yrs. Plus the dogmas in Vatican 2 are obsurd. Which is why I didn’t become Roman Catholic. Also I think their theology about Christ and trinity is wrong (watch jay dyer debates for that one, that’s above my pay grade to explain🤣)
@@Alex_contreras You didn't address his point . You just rehearsed the same polemic talking points. What you accuse Catholics of doing the orientatal Churches accuse both you and the catholics of being guilty of as well .
@@Alex_contreras Rome presiding over "All Churches under the sun" as said by St. Maximus sounds universal enough to me.
I would be curious to see the patristic consensus of contraception and divorce/remarriage in the first 1,000 years too.
You're getting closer to truth, however, orthodoxy has no magesterium to decide once and for all on matters. Orthodoxy also allows divorce and remarriage up to 3 times...what? In listening to your video, you are judging the catholic church on the conduct of some of its particular members in modern times, rather than on what it ACTUALLY teaches in its doctrines and dogmas. The papacy WAS in the first millennium. Look at Michael Lofton's Reason & Theology channel for the correct explanation; interestingly, he just uploaded a new video on this very topic. Also check out Lloyd De Jong's channel on some of the stuff that he has dug up. You have an incorrect understanding of papal infallibility as well. Jesus never promised perfect popes, but he did give the keys to Peter to build His church upon, even though Peter was later rebuked for a mistake...what legitimate leader doesn't take fillial correction from his closest advisors? Jesus also said said there would be wolves among you, so why would you expect the catholic church to be above that? 1/12th of the apostles were traitors and a few of the other apostles completely failed at certain points on their journey. Think about that. God bless your journey home. Humility IS the key ;)
I appreciate this. I do have one question, what is the “keys” Christ gave to Peter? Like what does that entail?
@@Alex_contreras the keys to bind and loose as it says in scripture. Matthew 18:18. There can only be ONE authority & ONE Church(singular). As also evidenced by the epistles themselves, you will see that there is an authority that corrects its churches by decree. And so it is today by God's amazing Mercy and Grace, there is safety within ANY of the church(es) that are in full communion with that one authoritative Church, because they all agree on the same basic precepts and teaching which can get your soul to heaven. Orthodoxy lacks that authority. No other church on earth can make this claim. When you said that if a bishop goes astray, you just don't listen to that one; well on who's "Authority" is that decided?? Think about it. It takes a spiritual authority to make the ultimate decision. Without it, you only end up with schisms I hope that anwers your question. Discernment is data driven and humility is key to understanding the data.
@@FiteTheGoodFightwhen the authority at the highest level has been corrupted, has the church fallen?
@@Sherlock_nohtreal no, the Church has not fallen. Christ warned us in scripture that there would be wolves among us. He said that directly to his disciples. The dogmas are protected by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and will remain unchanged until the end of time.
If by the pope , you mean the seat of Rome yes you are correct that it is in the first millennium, but anybody willing to do their own research into the history of the first millennium of the early church .
You will find There was no such claims of papal infallibility or papal supremacy.
And why use Michael Loften as a source ? he is known for his erroneous statements.
Sam needs help. Psychiatric help, and urgently. ✝️🙏♥️👍
☦️☦️
lol, Orthodox and Catholic is not found in the Bible get over yourself and don't try quoting Acts 9:31. Why can't people just read the Bible and take it for what it is? The best commentary on the Bible is the Bible.
Where does the Bible come from that’s you’re getting your understanding?
@@Alex_contreras The Bible is a collection of books and letters written by the apostles, and don't say that Catholics and Orthodox got together a few hundred years later and created the Bible lol that won't fly.
So you endorse all the superstition and extrabiblical things such as praying to Mary, saints, icons, and artifacts?! You backslid to Orthodoxy in your faith!
I recommend Jay dyer for these answers. Although I may do a response to these points. Trust me I know exactly where you’re coming from lol
Protestant i guess
@lucashenriques4242 i am a disciple of Christ. I adhere to the teachings of many denominations. I could not get past the heresy of the cult of Mary, pappacy, and saints. Catholisism literally is robbing God of His glory, giving it to His creation.
@@inthemiddleof Jesus Christ asks the father to let the disciples have the same glory that Christ had with the father before the world was. I get it tho. I was you brother. Just keep learning
the thing i cant get behind is the heresy of worshiping other idols that both Catholicism and orthodox does, in kissing the the paintings in orthodoxy which in you are worshipping paper and inc and in worshiping of the saints in Catholicism which is worshiping other idols as a god in the place of god.
both feel like heresy of a very high level, as you are breaking one of the commandments as a core tenant of your church.
further more in orthodoxy there is the thought that through works you can become god, which is nuts in my mind... if this is even possible then it flys in the face of what jesus did for us and his sacrifice, and puts jesus on the level of us which feels like blasphemy... how can either one of these churches be "the truth" when they run counter to biblical teachings in many ways.
Watch jay dyers response video to Isabella de Luca and other of his stuff. He sorts all this out for ya. (It’s super theologically deep)
@@Alex_contreras im sorry but jesus is my one true lord and saviour, he is my one god and i will not take on other gods then him. And no amount of explaining is going to make me go against that commandment.
As a Protestant that's recently been visiting Eastern Catholoc and EO churches and learning about their beliefs and history, I really don't believe these churches as a whole practice idolatry. I think there are certain believers that go too far and do fall into idolatry, but then that's no different from any individual protestant getting into false doctrines because of their own interpretation of something. It's more about showing reverance, but the reverance seems more of an internal thing as a reminder of an individual's own faith and not like they think they're genuinely kissing whichever saint or Jesus or whoever the icon is of.
But you definitely got theosis (what you described as "becoming god") wrong, this is something that's not specific to Catholoc/Orthodox, I learned this even as a non-denominational Christian - this is a completely Christian belief that all believers should have no matter their denomination, but we likely have different words for this process. It's not that that we believe we become God or gods, but that as we grow in our faith, understanding of God we then begin to become more like the way God designed us to be. Even Romans 12:2 talks about this, about the renewal of our mind and not conforming to the world so you're arguing against a misunderstanding. This is one scriptural reference amongst many (scripture about us being set apart, turning to God and away from sin, growing in faith).
@@notsure9301 God didn’t say “my people perish for a lack of knowledge” for no reason.
@@ddandelions "reverence" is simply a linguistic cope, to try and separate it from the worship it truly is. a simple test u can run is this, if reverence is not worship then worship cannot be reverence. but worship is a form of reverence, so there for reverence must be worship.
to bend down and kiss objects and/or people, as is done with your orthadox popes (kissing on the hand of the elders) in many cultures and religions is a sign of submition and worship.
Which one u love more from shame on and devil wood
Is this a Muhammaden in my comments?🤣