Testing a portable high power broken tap remover (SFX-4000B)
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2018
- I got the opportunity to test a high power Electrical Discharge Machine (EDM) It uses the process of spark erosion to vaporise broken taps and bolts. It's my first time operating such a machine and in this video you'll see how I get along with the SFX-4000B portable broken tap remover.
SFX-4000B company video: goo.gl/1FAfRZ
How to operate SFX4000B: goo.gl/zCdVT9
EDM-8c vs. sfx-4000b: goo.gl/TzyaY9
company website: www.brokentapremover.com - Věda a technologie
I think that went very well for your first go.
I did see something very similar many years ago. The electrode was made of carbon graphite stuff an they used to make odd shaped holes in various hard materials by shaping the graphite. The whole thing was submerged in oil not water. I have not seen another one of them until now. We used to call it a spark eroder. The highest profile job it ever did was take a broken tap out of a jet turbine blade. I think they were very happy we got it out without damaging the blade. Very interesting video.
Thanks
spark eroder /edm same difference carbon for cheap electrodes copper for strength it all depends on what shape and size /profile you want but there will always be a wear ratio of 10 to 50 % to the electrode
I loved the video. I am jealous, this is a wonderful toy, sorry machine, to have in the shop.
I have broken a few taps in my time. Not many, but each time it is a hassle. I tried purchasing tap removers. They work really well at removing money from the wallet, but so far I have not been able to get them to remove the broken tap, the fingers bend.
I have read posts on machining forums about EDM, even a thread where a fellow made a machine at home. I had not seen these in operation before. I had not tried searching for a video.
I am not surprised at the electrode wear since the arc is going to wear the electrode. I did like the vibration setting, big improvement.
The operation is more messy than I appreciated, due to the tiny metal particles created.
The machine worked well. Like many machines, including our lathes etc. have a learning curve.
Dave.
Maybe this is something for you www.omegadrill.com
You have a mill, right.
I do have a mill.
Thanks for the link. I had not seen this product before. A bit expensive, certainly only used to save a part, much more expensive than a few taps.
Dave.
Your probably better of buying a few cheap Chinese carbide end mills.
I have no real or firsthand experience about the EDM, although I have seen one used a couple of times. The first time was exactly a broken tap removal. The second one was what is called Wire EDM. Both used copper electrode, the second one a copper wire in a loop. It was cutting sideways into some super alloy.
From an electrical perspective, I think the operation is somewhat akin to a high frequency start (or better yet continuous AC) TIG welding. The High Frequency is starting the arc, but the real power that does the job comes from the lower voltage, higher current that follows.
In any case, I myself have broken one 1/8” tap in an aluminum block. Took me more than a day to grind it out with a Dremel and two different shape Chinese diamond bits. It was a closed bottom case of about 1/4” or 3/8” depth. I then wished I would have one of these EDM machines.
Instablaster
Seen this in a Amazon ad, now I’m here. I’ve never heard of one of these. But I’m a mechanic, I can see how it could be useful, by that time I’d be upselling a new part. Unless it was a block or cylinder head.
Thank you for the video on EDM. Along with you, I learned something useful on the subject.
At 5:58, you show a nice big sledge hammer and mention that you are fully prepared to make the smash video. Hey, even if you are completely dissatisfied with the machine, don't make that mistake. If you send the smash video to that Chinese company, they will promptly pay you $ 0.00 because, that's what you paid in the first place for what you have received!
Pretty cool. I wrestled for like 2 hours with a broken tap yesterday before scraping the whole part, so this would be worth a shot for sure. If you've never broken a tap... it'll make a preacher cuss!
Yeay but I sure broke my fair share of drill bits.
The smaller the electrode the faster the cut only reserve is getting enough wash to clear the debris
I bought the next model down to remove a broken tap. Worked as advertized. You can drill any size hole that you can find a brass rod for.
Nice machine , some more testing wil bring the answer. 1e the electrode should be copper last longer . 2e the electrode should be smaller or the same as the removing part. The hangover of the electrode reduce the efective spark at the top of the flute but will spark al around. the surface of the flutes are much to coars. good EDM leaves a fine finisch. we used petroleum ,kerosene< it should not conduct electricity.
succes .
Just watched this... That could be the basis of a great EDM die sinker. What's an EDM die sinker? It's the tool you go to when you need to machine shapes in metal that can't be machined. It will "burn" (cut) any conductive workpiece no matter how hard. Make an electrode (preferably in graphite or copper) and you get a mirror image (usually 2 electrodes are used, the second on low power for finishing). Try drilling a square hole, it's not possible without an EDM. Try drilling a hexagonal hole in tungsten carbide, easy enough with an EDM. Take a look at injection moulding tool making, next to impossible without an EDM. There are several videos where guys are trying to make these, because commercial versions have astronomic price tags. One of these could provide the basis for something special.
Hi Nice review, takes a lot of time to find the right settings, seems like the manual could be better on that point, did the hex electrode go all the way through, looks like it only went 5-6mm down ?.
With the vibration option on I was rather easy to dial it in.
The hex did not go though nor was that planned. But it did stop to early because the depth set screw came loose.
Shapers are awesome. Mine is 60 years old and still cuts a good chip.
Mine tipped over and I never got to use it :(
Rolingmetal youll need to hit mine with a truck to knock mine over..
I haven't broken any taps, but routinely have pieces of metal too hard to drill that I want holes in. It could be very handy.
Can you drill a small hole with this portabl machine in steel? And if yes how deep can this hole can be? And diameter of 8mm
The amazon link: amzn.to/2Nw5uQR
The Functions and Features of This Broken tap remover
1. Portable edm broken tap remover abide by the principle of Spark Erosion to remove broken tools, no direct contact, thus, no external force and damage to the work piece;
2. Excellent Structure: Portable edm is convenient to carry due to small size and light weight, and shows its special superiority for large work pieces. Working head is separated from the machine and could rotate in any direction, which is helpful for complex machining;
3. Portability: Light weight; Small size; Carrying handle on the top of the power case;
4. Convenient Operation: The magnetic base could attract on work pieces to finish processing easily;
5. Vibrate work head: Vibrate of the electrode, greatly improved the processing efficiency;
6. Automation: Auto feed; Depth setting(Stop at a specific depth); Alarm and auto retract;
7. Economical and Convenient: The working liquid is ordinary tap water; power consumption is moderate; the inlet pipe is detachable;
8. Wide Processing Range: Broken taps and drills (conductive material) above Ø2mm (Ø2mm is included);
9. Long Working Time: A cooling fan installed ensures the ventilation, which keeps the machine working continuously.
The website: www.brokentapremover.com
Interesting video!!! My guess, is a square shaped carbon electrode, would have worked very well with this machine to remove that broken tap. The square electrode having the corners placed in the center of the flute cutaways would have probably eroded the center 'spider' cross-section of that tap, in a fairly short time... The remaining threaded sections of that tap could have then been removed with a pocket telescoping magnet...
Hi RM. Cool machine. I have a Bother in-law here in the States. that works for a Company called Sossner metal Stamps. The Edm machines I have seen there, all use edm oil. It works that's what counts. You did fine using it. I may look into getting one. Has always Liked,Shared and added to Playlists.
All my best.
Bobby
I believe the use kerosene to prevent aluminium parts from corrosion. Might have to try that one day.
I don't know about kerosene ! Has it is flammable. Google EDM Oil. It's made for that. Sossner does stamps for tool company's,Etc which is a very hard metal .... Or use none detergent motor oil. Keep a fire extinguisher on hand,just in case.
All my best.
Bobby
you can use kerosene to prevent aluminium parts from corrosion , we have test .
@@Rolingmetal EDM oil is kerosene with flame retardant, most modern machines use filters a settling tank and a deioniser in the feed to keep the water clear of electrolytes
Love that big hammer!
That little thing. I've got bigger :)
If just using tap water, and near a water source I wonder if it would be better to put the pump in a separate bucket of clean water- and let the water from the workpiece drain.
I’ve seen videos of high end commercial machines, and they also added travel to compensate for electrode loss.
Anyway, nice video.
I would like to see you review a shaper hope you get to do it
I actually already have a little shaper. Bough it about a year ago and then tipped it over.
Parts broke off and it's been standing in a corner ever since.
Interesting. I wonder if adding an electrolyte (such as baking soda) would improve the process ?
Definitely not. Demineralised water it the way to go.
@@Rolingmetal I think the hunting problem may be perfectly consistent with uneven electrode wear.
What is the price of that machine?
Why not use a round copper electrode?
well done. now i can get that broken tap out of the engine I am bulding, I'll just need to use the neighbors pool, I dont they would mind.
I am jealous because no one sends me such stuff for testing ...:-) ...Anyway, looks like this thing got some potential. I guess one of the problems is that you use tap water, demineralised water or kerosene would be better because water splits into oxygen + hydrogen and you don't want much oxygen around your electrode. Also be careful when touching the electrode, 50V HF can burn your fingers quite badly.
You could probably make one yourself. Could be your next project once the ...... is finished.
I actually felt some tingling when I got my hands in the water and the HF circuit was open.
It was a good reminder what I was playing with :)
I probably could, but it's a lot of work for something i don't really need, a carbide end mill does technically the same job and in aluminium you can dissolve it with acid. I'd rather buy an old wire EDM, they go quite often for well under $500, my problem is the space.... Like your humor, by the way,...
I've been watching a lot of wire EDM videos. Those machines are awesome.
Big and probably expensive to run though. But I will make room I someone wants me to test one :)
Never Ever use flammable materials as the dielectric liquid. Any light machine oil is fine.
i went and looked for a vid i remembered about this very subject. Here it is : czcams.com/video/ProB4LpswPA/video.html&feature=player_embedded and it's a very good video at that.
I'm interested to see if it makes a difference using copper electrodes.
One day I'll hook it up again and do some more testing. Maybe tomorrow if I happen to break a tap :)
I would like to find out if I can use this spark generator to make a square hole for a boring bar.
@@Rolingmetal I don't see why not. It's basically a Sinker EDM with a lot less control settings. You can try different electrodes to burn a profile in a proper part. Anything from copper, to brass, tungsten to graphite to an impregnated graphite, brass and/or copper. Best I've found for tap disintegrating is Tungsten. A lot cheaper than you think, plus they generally have a hole thru them too. Less surface contact the better. Also, the intermittent burn at the beginning of the 'cut' and sporadically thru the cut is normally from the junk floating in the water not getting flushed out of the burn zone. The 'swarf' needs to be flushed with as much pressure as possible to get the most effective burn. I'll hush now, love the channel, thanks for sharing my man. 👍👊😎
I would like to see it with the polarity reversed.
your suppose to use a dielectric fluid, and the electrode and part needs to be submerged in the fluid. that's why your electrode burned up. and I just learned about EMD machining 45 minutes ago.
cool video, I wouldnt mind seeing some more tests with that thing. I just looked at the price of the thing and man is that thing expensive, lol. I have a few things that I would burn the taps out with it, lol. Im kinda curious how it is actually put together, It looks like a pretty simple design and I think with a longer travel for the electrode, it would be quite a bit more useful than it is now. I also wonder if using a copper electrode would make any difference vs brass, which imo would be crappy as an electrode anyhow, and is probably why it's eating so much of the electrode away.
I'll probably play a bit more with the machine this weekend. Shouldn't be a problem to record some more video.
Please try a stainless steel electrode which may prove interesting.
So how long did it take to get thru 1 flute in high power?
I never got completely though the flute. But I would guess about 9 minutes would do it.
Video recorded destruction of the 'broken' machine could help them mitigate the cost of people claiming their machine failed, when all they're trying to do is take advantage of the company's replacement policy, and re-selling the machine. Not a bad idea.
I gotta have more unboxing 🐮🔔
Do you know if it is possible to use petrol or different liquid instead of water?
I believe kerosene or diesel can be used to prevent aluminium parts form oxidising.
@@Rolingmetal have you tried already?
Flammable liquids and electrical discharges typically result in fires or explosions...
@@flavius624 I'm not sure it is available for this case
for the "kindly piss off" comment alone I'm subbing this channel.
I wonder if you put the polatity of your wires properly...
Knowing myself it is certainly a possibility
@@Rolingmetal - Please try. As somebody said above, both metals erode. it's the polarity that determines the ratios. There is a lot of black in your water. That would be the copper eroding out out of the brass.
sir did they provide electrical and electronic circuit diagrams and drawings
No, they did not.
ok thanks
but i need before to decide
email: jrahman@giki,edu,pk and GIK Institute of engineering Sciences and Technology is company name
@Linda An - Linda - is the polarity correct in this video for steel?
you should try it with deionized water.
I actually bough some cans with de-mineralised water. Never got around to using them :)
Use a tungsten rod from a tig welder .
Then try a graphite rod from a pensil .
See what can last longer .
But Truly what the hell did you expect with sparks jumping out of any metal it will wear out .
I have seen an EDM with a continuous metal wire with no description that can cut but it's run continuously or spooled on point of contact ( spark contact not wire to job contact ) between the job at hand then the wire is spooled and then not reused .
2:04 thank you! Glad someone else recognises the devil's work in plain sight for all to see!
Try putting the pump in a separate tank of water so it has clean water.
You need de-ionized water, rather than tap water, because blah blah chemistry, electroconductivity of water and the self-ionization properties of H+ OH, etc. (At least, that's how pro-EDMs are setup for making actual dies for molding out of H13 steel.... if youre' just removing a standard tapping bit I guess the losses won't be too bad). Cool piece of kit, mate. Hook it up to a standard 4020 kit gantry and form your own carbide/cubic boron nitride tooling ;)
Just looked on ebay, around $2K. I would buy an cheap old sinker EDM before that unless you need to go mobile.
Agreed, It's an expensive piece of kit. You can buy mine for half of that. Hardly used, I don't break a lot op taps :)
My two cents: the tap is too big and rarely do you brake a big tap, mostly small taps when you force it over its limit. So the real test should be on a small one. Also the week link is obviously the electrode. I am surprised they dont use this process with copper. What I would be interested in is to know how much heat to apply on the tap in order to make it brittle enough to break it with some impact instead of trying to slicing it. Thanks for the video.
They supplied the tab, It would be rude not to break it :)
electrodes van zuiver koper werken beter en gaan langer mee
Volgens mij heb ik wel wat rood koper. Dat is toch dat spul wat zo lastig en taai draaien wil?
Thank You VERY VERY MUCH for this video! . Regards, BEAR HUG!
set up a high volume pump with a filter to clean the water!
use a pond pump like for an outdoor water feature!!
I guess there should be some cyclic action to it, rather than blasting away like an electric arc furnace.
The pulsing is to allow time for the wash to clear debris as the electrode is lifted the servo will automatically keep the spark gap set
Looks like it needs more power to work correctly. This video basically put me off one of these chinese machines. The High Power mode seemed to be only a 10th of rated power, no surprise for chinese machines. I have a induction forge and I its half what it should be compared to other vids on CZcams.
if you ever use it again then try copper electrodes !!!!
Damn, you said piss off and for some reason, I had to go piss. ;o) I hate it when a government taxes the living shit out of everything.
Prise
Your loosing electrode cause you need to add a jump
Is there a nice way to tell someone to piss off? Lol
Sure. Piss off, please :)
That thing has a yellow label that says sex! That's one hell of a sex toy!
And it does vibrate :)
Electrodes are expected to be expended as you do the job.
I thought wear was a bit much. But someone commented pure copper wears less. Might have to give that a try.
Rolingmetal They use graphite to EDM hard steel form-tools. From the explanation we were given in college, I'd not be surprised if the tool got eroded the same amount as the workpiece. But I have no practical experience of it and have not done any research since I was told this stuff as a student.
Whot is priej
Man, 10a at 35v = 350w???that is peanut compare to a welding machine, not even close to high power. But i am suprise that they send you a m20 tape to test the machine. Simply too big the bait for the fish to swallow. Are you using m20 very often? I guess m4 ~ m10 will be more common, right? Why m20 then? Look at the electrolyte this machine is using....
With a m5 tape this machine may not have the same result, less surface area, less volume and more resistance.... That high power 350w arc may not even scratching the skin of the tape. ...
Next time you may try using mineral oil or other lathe coolen agent to replace water for better result and your container is too shallow. The spark is suppose to be submerging under the water line all the time to get rid of oxygen in the equation. but i also have to remind you that, hot oil+spark+ air is a perfect equation to FIRE!!
Good edm machine can work on a m1 hole, which means the electrolyte is less than 0.5mm dia. I don`t know how many amp this machine will draw from your wall socket, hope it will be less than 20a otherwise you will have a blown fuse.....
I guess you have spare fuse at home, my friend?
By the way, don`t let the environmental protection department knows that you have this machine, you will get law sue for discharging heavy metal polluted water if they got you.
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reverse polarity. you are donating metal not taking it away
Creating metal out if thin air, on magic machine :)
I was thinking this the entire video. The black in the water looks like it is coming from the brass and not the steel.
ur funny as f u k... love it
Thank's I try not to make my amateur machining videos all to serious :) That would be boring imho
I still got the machine, maybe I'll fire it up again this summer for some more fun....
Does the yellow sticker say; "SEX"?
Sfx
Mannnn , it took only 90 secs to get me laughing " I Kindly ask you to piss off "? -- , but -- cutting with a blade like electrode a smaller piece is mostlikely not perfect .- you have to get the core,. thats most important. U also drill Bolts from the center , right ?
Lots of jealous people out there wanting to leave a nasty comment. Though I shut them up before they would reach for the keyboard. The blade is recommended for bigger taps.
LOL,
wth Is this such a big problem that they made a machine for it? Just dont let the students play with the taps and you wont need a SfX machine lol
yes i know in manufacturing as in wire edm and drilling.. but not sure how useful these mini versions are. Guess one could reg it up to do some useful things.
I never needed one before. Hopefully I didn't curse myself by intentionally breaking a tap.
Professionals even brake taps! It's apart of the job. No one is perfect.