Palm Springs vs. Groundhog Day: Finding Meaning in The Loop
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2020
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Palm Springs and Groundhog Day both use the Greek myth of Sisyphus as a metaphor for our lives, asking how we can live meaningful lives when our actions have no long term consequences. This video examines both films through the lens of philosopher Albert Camus, comparing the worlds and answers they present.
Clickbait Title: Palm Springs ending EXPLAINED!
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#ThomasFlight #Movies - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I wonder if the name Nyles is a wordplay on Nihilism.
Ooh, interesting thought!
Omg good eye
@doynsc Wow that’s an interesting point! I didn’t realize it could be wordplay as Irvine is a real place, but perhaps they chose it specifically as Roy felt at peace with his time loop reality. He even encouraged Nyles to find his Irvine.
Palm Springs was so much fun
I agree!
Ikr its so good!
I swear it's gonna be a cult classic for the next decade or so
Here, here!
palm springs is so fucking good, the answer to a meaningless existance is community, love and kindness, its that easy
Groundhog Day to me also expresses the feeling of isolation; trying to communicate what’s going on inside oneself, but feeling stuck behind a glass pane, attempting to explain while other people just can’t understand.
K
I totally agree, my pain in life.
@@lampad4549 Hope you’re doing good and staying safe. If you need to talk to someone or need help, there are people who care. Sending support and hearts. ❤️❤️❤️
@@maxlafaille1950 Hope you’re doing good and staying safe. If you need to talk to someone or need help, there are people who care. Sending support and hearts. ❤️❤️❤️
Hope you’re doing good and staying safe. If you need to talk to someone or need help, there are people who care. Sending support and hearts. ❤️❤️❤️
Palm Springs has definitely made it to my top ten fav movies of all time.
SAME
Definitely! I love this film. 💜
Its interesting how films of this type reflect the social anxieties and neuroses of the time they are made in. What people seem to struggle with and obsess about. Some things don't change, but our focus does.
I'm surprised you didn't roll Russian Doll into this, the best crafted and most moving form of the "time loop to learn and grow" trope
I've seen it and it's great! But adding too many different media can often get unwieldy. It's also still a work in progress, so I have less of a grasp on it's overall view in comparison.
@@ThomasFlight What's the big deal? Groundhog day: Comedy; Palm Springs: Romantic Comedy; Happy Death Day: Horror Comedy; Russian Doll: Black Comedy; Edge of Tomorrow: Sci-Fi Comedy... They're all comedies because, as you said, they explore the absurdity of life...
@@pdzombie1906 psychological thriller - Game over
@@pdzombie1906 Bruh i would not call Edge of Tomorrow a comedy.
@@ThomasFlight This, exactly.
After Every Frame a Painting you are my favourite channel about films.
at least his channel didnt officially end, like EFaP.
Then, you don't know Like stories of old...
I stll have Every Frame a Paiting in my subscriptions. Won't ever delete it!
Film works so well as an intellectual firestarter. It presents ideas, but because of run time it can't explore them fully. Instead it can provide the viewer a gateway into exploring the issue for themselves, and self motivated study is a much more potent way to learn. Cinema is not a teaching medium, but it is highly educational.
"If nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do"
It’s amazing the beauty that can come from snl alumni when they get serious with their mix of comedy. Ted lasso, Barry and Palm Springs balance comedy with beauty
I don't know if you'd consider "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" or "Memento" as movies with a time-loop (since they're actually happening in real time, it's just the characters that are in the loop), but I see many of the same philosophies overlapping
I've never thought of them that way, but it's an interesting idea. Memento certainly brings up similar implications about the meaning of life.
Or Tenet
I believe Ive seen Eternal Sunshine even more often than Palm Springs actually.
Palm Springs was a blast. It had more philosophical questioning than Groundhog Day
Not at all. Groundhog day had all that stuff, it just state it out loud.
I kinda wish it was a show instead of a movie, we see more of Roy trying to kill him, explore more of the themes and ideas expressed in the movie but stretched out to several episodes, maybe a limited series, but im glad we got the movie we got, its great
I don't think I've ever actively gone out there and recommended a romcom, even less any of those hundreds of Groundhog Day rip-offs/homages I've tried to sit through (barring Edge of Tomorrow) -- but I just cannot stop harping on about Palm Springs. Also, I've seen it three times, and still haven't found a flaw in it. It was one of my two favourite lockdown films -- the other was The Lighthouse.
I watched both these films not so long ago, and was urging a philosophical video on it. Thank you for this content. It’s awesome. Keep it up!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This was the first video of yours I've seen, and I can't wait to see more of your work.
I absolutely loved this movie. Great video!
Great analysis of both films! Its very satisfying to watch after finishing a great movie like Palm Springs. I love how well it was executed. Possibly best use of the trope. As much I want to like Groundhog Day, it did drag. Still I love watching something that makes me think.
This really made me think a lot about both of these (in my opinion) great movies. Loved it, thank you!
Great video! I loved Palm Springs. I don't think it's quite fair to skewer it for having less of an "answer" to existential questions - I think the time loop is used to explore the theme of love specifically. Both characters are emotionally a little stunted and guarded against real connection at the beginning, making romantic choices that don't align with their true selves. In the context of their developing bond we are shown how people can escape this self-abandoning pattern, through bravery, authenticity and trust. Attachment issues and fear of getting hurt often keep people stuck in loops - I thought the film did a fantastic job of showing how real love asks us to show up, heal and transform together.
Wow your video was so good that I got curious and went and watch Palm Springs now! Thank you so much for great content !
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thomas Flight yeah I really liked it although I must think about it cause the ending seems vague for me I mean there are many possibilities of what really happened! Do you have any ideas?
charon pluto I got the impression the plan didn’t work in the end and now they’re just together in the loop doing whatever they want, makes sense since J.K. was still able to get by in life despite being stuck too, but seeing the final shot with that family confused of them in the pool without them caring at all made me settle on this conclusion
TheResistanceCompany but they were stuck at November 9 but when the family comes niles says now they know they come back at 10th November so it means they are in 10th november day... Ive got this impression that they may be stuck in a loop in next day..
TheResistanceCompany also J.K scene implies that niles is not in the loop as him anymore that’s why he didn’t know him..
I'm currently dealing with a major existential crisis. I imagine a lot of people are as well given the current circumstances. It's caused a great deal of debilitating and depressive episodes. I'm already in therapy and searching internally for my own "meaning" to existence (basically I would love to fully believe in absurdism) but I''m curious of your own experience Thomas. Do you feel you've embraced this philosophy?
Personally I find Camus' idea of embracing the absurd unsatisfying, and I have my doubts that many people could actually do it. In my own life I try to live something much closer to what Kierkegaard talks about, making a "leap of faith." Regardless of whether or not I can know with certainty that there is meaning to the universe, I choose to believe there is, and live my life as if my actions truly mean something and there is an absolute moral code I can try to live up to. This is probably part of why I like Groundhog Day so much, because it models a philosophy I adhere too in some ways. It's not a perfect approach but I feel it brings purpose and direction into my life, even though some people might say that faith isn't grounded in "reality."
I hope you find truth and hope in your search, I think it's one we're all on to some extent, some people just do a better job of ignoring it or distracting themselves from it than others. The world can be a scary place full of suffering, but there's also so much beauty and mystery in our very existence, the fact that we're even here experiencing this. It's complex stuff that's hard to get at in CZcams comments but if you ever want to chat about it more in depth you can send me an email me@thomasflight.com or hit me up on my Twitter DMs.
Just finished the movie (loooooved it) and i immediately needed to compare it in philosophies with Groundhog, so thank u CZcams algorithm for bringing me here.
Never thought I'd find a movie I'd love as much as Groundhog Day but Palm Springs definitely achieved that. Ive watched that movie so many times recently. Might watch it again tonight 😊
"Our absurdity warrants neither that much distress nor that much defiance" - Nagel on Camus
Brilliant presentation
Great review!
these are always so great & i appreciate your detailed analysis. learning without the confines of dated school structures should be the new norm. does anyone else think that Andy Samberg would be the perfect Fry for a live action Futuroma movie? peace.
Good observations! Thanks.
Interesting talk of Camus, relating to both movies.
I reject all of these philosophies. For me, without substantial and meaningful change or progress, there is no happiness. It's the newness, the surprises, and the steady improvements that make us happy. A feeling of accomplishment or discovery in one form or another, external or internal. Change is where meaning is found.
This is a major part of why being with another person makes us happy. They inject that newness and progress into our lives, even if that newness and progress is entirely internal.
In the end, both movies agree on this central point, even if they don't directly acknowledge it. The only real difference is that Groundhog Day requires a very specific type of change and progress before unlocking other kinds of change and progress.
In the story of Sisyphus, I believe he can only find happiness if he finds a way to make each trip up the mountain new, learns or experiences something different over time, even if the summary of events is the same.
I'm pretty sure the point of the story of sisyphus, on the modern day, was just to accept the absurdity of life and don't let it bring you down. However, in Ancient times...nope, it's just hell.
@@tomstonemale You're somewhat on the right track. Camus practically expressed that once you accept the futility of life and how meaningless and absurd it is, you have 3 options. 1. Suicide. 2. Become complacent. 3. Revolt.
He further argues that if we imagine Sisyphus happy, then that is a big FU to the Gods who punished him. Not only did he accept his fate, but he turned it into his mission. His every day mundane task was now something to look forward to. There was an ironic twist that the Gods had not considered when assigning eternal punishment: the human mind is capable of anything.
Well, if one goes deeply enough into the moment, one will find novelty there. Meditation or flow state both allow one to find near infinite exploration into the very mundane. And as you say, discovery and exploration bring joy and happiness.
The Taoist philosophy is based upon the study of change, and learning how to interact with the world and the universe in such subtle harmony that your thoughts and actions appear effortless and your demeanor is constantly of one who's just heard a good joke for the first time.
Edit: I have an issue with your point about being with other people. The joy of being with others isn't a matter of novelty. That's precisely why we have so many life long or at least long lasting relationships. People often value comfort over novelty in this area, especially as they get older. Being with another person is a way of seeing ourselves from a different perspective, like in a mirror. That's why we find it so important. For most people through most of their lives, it will be extremely difficult for them to have an identity and feel comfortable in their own skin without another person to validate them. We view ourselves in relation to others.
However, there are plenty of stories of the wise man or the enlightened one who rejects society and goes off on their own because they don't need it anymore. But they often come back just to help others. We see this with Christ's 40 day fast in the desert and with Buddha's 30 days of meditation under the Bodie tree.
@@mauricior2046 But he can't just imagine his way out of it. Remember Milton, when Lucifer tried to say that he could just change his perception of Hell so that it was enjoyable, and that the mind was capable of anything. But remember, he's a liar, an unreliable narrator. You aren't actually supposed to believe him. The point is, he's clever enough to create these lies in order to entice people away from the path of redemption.
It's also kind of funny that he follows the options presented by Camus by revolting.
Awesome analysis
I remember reading a theory that Ferris Bueller is also stuck in a time loop and I liked that it made the movie have extra depth to it, even though there’s not enough evidence to confirm it
Has there ever been a more satisfying scene of the protagonist defeating one of the antagonists than the scene where Phil punches Ned in the face? I stood up on my seat in the theatre and clapped.
Also check out Edge of Tomorrow, Source Code, and games like Death Loop and 2 others I cant recall rn (scifi & dramatic).
The best Groundhog Day clone is the “Window of Opportuniy” episode from Stargate SG-1.
Man, you are great.
They are both GREAT movies, I recommend both.
its not just blind faith that good actions have value
its factual, observable, productive, reality
Camus doesn't state that the universe is meaningless. Also, the absurd does not refer to our meaningless labour in a meaningless world. Instead, he states that we can't know if there is a meaning. Our subsequent attempts at finding meaning while never being able to find it is absurd.
Maybe I'm wrong in my interpretation but the difference between "there isn't any meaning" and "we can never find meaning" seems negligible to me- at least from an existentialist perspective.
That said- I get that there _is_ a difference in those statements, so perhaps I could have stated his position more clearly. But I don't think the difference has a practical application to how we would live.
Thomas Flight well arguing about negligible aspects is half the fun philosophy ;). It’s not an important distinction to mention for the video but I do think that it is important to highlight the difference between camus’ absurdism and existentialism.
Thomas Flight the part that the difference actually doesn’t have any applications in our life is relevant to nihilism. Life maybe meaningless or meaningful but it doesn’t matter what matters how we bear it’s burden...( it’s basically the same theory behind the man’s search for meaning)
@@ThomasFlight I think a difference is in what absurdism is concerned with. It is not concerned with whether there is meaning, it is concerned with how people respond to an absurd world. I also think something interesting is that Camus’s philosophy evolved, that is relevant. In The Plague he moves away from it being an individual revolt, but recognizes the importance of other people in our lives.
Great video. The only issue I have is a minor quibble with the beginning - Sisyphus wasn't granted immortality, and wasn't unable to die, he was already head. The bolder thing is happening in Hades. He was in fact sentenced to that for leaving Hades to attend his daughter's wedding and not returning when he said he would.
Love your videos man, even if I don’t always agree.
I finally saw Palm springs on a plane. It was a good rom com. I liked the Ground Hog day of making 2 people in the loop. It was original how ending was a choice of science and fixing everything. Yet Sarah still chose to have a good last wedding recepttion
Pete Rock at the end of the video! Vibes.
Harold Ramis said in the Groundhog Day commentary that the original script said that Phil was stuck in the time loop for 10,000 years. They thought that was a bit extreme and shortened it to 10 years.
Granted, this has little bearing on the plot and isn't mentioned in movie, but I thought it was an interesting bit of trivia.
In both movies, you can consider the loops as unhealthy relationships or themself, Phil and Nyles are trap with a time loop they didn't want since their nothing to do about it they choosing it and try to be happy. Phil stops thinking about him being unhappy and tries making other people having the good he thinks he will never have, Nyles and Sarah start to be truly happy when they make the other not feeling unhappy, Sarah realizes her happiness isn't real and want to get free of the loop. All three of them could have chosen this life and still be happy even if it's half-fake, but they don't, groundhog day teach you about wanting happiness for other people and Palm springs tell you to want happiness for yourself.
true
Missed the oppurtunity to do a deep compare with Marlin Wayne's film Naked. Jk. Great breakdown my dude! Ned Ryerson is one of my fav characters of all time.
Ned? Ned _Ryerson?!_
I haven't seen Naked, I'll have to check it out!
Actually it is just a very cute love story about two people finding each other, Sarah is in a very bad condition at the beginning whilst Nyles is rediscovering a motivation and at the end he is mostly scared to leave his own comfort zone, to face difficulties that will happen in the future
Groundhog Day:- A man who think he's a god, then becomes a god and finally learns to be a human in the end.
Hey, having studied a bit of Camus in school I believe you missed a point in his theory that could be applied to Palm Springs. Camus says that maybe you can find happiness in the absurdity of life but he also says that you MUST revolt and that's a part of his philosophy. Absurdity / Revolt and the third part is Love. But he didn't have time to finish the Love part. I believe you sould maybe think about that ? I don't know would be interesting to make it correlate wiht the movie. As I believe that Sarah is obviously trying to revolt whereas Niels is more on the Love part. And Roy would be on the absurdity acceptance part ? Maybe idk. Hope you see this message even a few years later
It's interesting how there are so many great channels on CZcams. Who would've thought you and I would have so much in common?
lol what
Hey no joke I had to go to your channel to see you've released any new videos I'm subscribed but from like 2 months ago none of your videos have shown up in my feed
Yeah the algorithm has been really not promoting my stuff recently. Not sure what's going on. Turning on notifications will help make sure you see my posts!
Palm Springs and Groundhog Day are sooooo good
Great video. But what is that French song arond 8.25?
Groundhog Day isn't the first story or even movie about a time loop, just the most famous.
What was the first?
A loop, like the Groundhogs day, That I might have heard about?
Always has been
cool video
Would you say movies like The Girl Who Leapt Through Time are antithesis to this? While characters of Groundhog Day and Palm Springs are forcefully subjected to the loop, the main character of The Girl Who Leapt Through Time intentionally put herself in a loop. Though I think the messages may be a bit different.
I haven't seen it but it sounds cool, I'll have to check that out. But yeah, I imagine that changes the nature of the metaphor. And I don't think all "time-loop" films are Sisyphean metaphors, Edge of Tomorrow (Live, Die Repeat) for example, is not.
Sisyphus is repeating the boulder work as a result of cheating/tricking the gods and death. He was given an eternity of punishment.
I don't think you are ever suppose to stop appreciating the small things in our short lives. Summing it up as pointless is of no use, even if accurate.
they should have cut to black after explosion
Could have been great, turned out okay
I agree I think if they cut to black after the explosion or went to the scene of Nyles not recognizing Roy, it would have been a bolder ending. That being said, I still think it is a fantastic movie.
They wanted it to end like that but everyone said it was too bleak, and they wanted the movie not to be a another "wanna be deep" movie.
@@leaalajbeg6349 lameeee, I think it would have been a risk that paid off
I like the ending when I watch a rom com I want a happy ending lol
oh yeah
Eternal punishment in the underworld (ancient version of hell) is not exactly immortality, I would say.
Is Phil Conners Immortal while he's in the loop?
Im a sophomore in high school and want to write for film... what should i do
Be authenthic
What about Roy?
Majora's Mask does it best, though I feel this idea works so much better in videogames, already based in repetitive gameplay systems.
They need to remake majoras mask
@@johnconnor7501 Again?
Cool
Has anyone played all they days of groundhog day simultaneously multiverse style making the Phil Connor in the movie the Phil Connoriest Phil Connor?
Hold on -- Camus did more than the Myth of Sisyphus. As I recall, Camus said, "We can be saved from the absurd by love." Look it up and report back. :-)
Ah, here it is: iai.tv/articles/albert-camus-on-love-and-the-absurd-auid-1317 "Absurdity may be king, but love saves us from it." The best way to demonstrate you don't belong in a meaningless existence is to stand opposed to it by loving regardless of achieving a lasting outcome. I love this line: "our consciousness of defeat is what makes the victory of our courage possible." Bill does it in Groundhog Day, and Nyles does it in Palm Springs. Both in a sense take a leap of faith. Another underlying moral in both movies is: Love is more important than time. In both movies, both men choose love in finite time over meaningless existence with infinite time.
I know I’m super late, but I think one interesting thing about Camus is that everyone goes to the Myth of Sisyphus, when his philosophy greatly evolved. In Sisyphus his philosophy was very individual, but look at his novel The Plague (one of my favorite novels, and favorite work of his). It is no longer about the individual alone responding to the absurd, but instead it shows how important our relationships with other people are. It still has the rejection of suicide and religion or some other higher power, but it is no longer an individual revolt.
@@tabaz4059 I have fond memories of reading The Plague many years ago.
I quite like the "solution" to both problem is similar but different.
In both case, the protagonist must be better, but the type of betterment is quite different.
Phil needs to be better morally.
Nyles needs to accept real happiness (so, better emotionally).
Sarah needs to be better morally/emotionally (accept her past actions, but growing past them) and, weirdly, intellectually to leave the loop.
Loves both movies, but, of course, GHD is a classic and almost perfect.
I don’t understand anything that you’re saying but I’m having a good time
Thanks for creating this video; I enjoy the idea of examining film through the lens of philosophy. It has a lot of potential. Having said that, in setting up Camus’ absurdism as the metric against which to measure the films, I think you’ve got this analysis backward. It is Camus’ philosophy that falls short of that of the films. One has to be a pretty self-absorbed narcissist to believe there’s no purpose inherent in life. News flash. The purpose of life is to create more life. That’s literally why all living creatures exist: they’ve proven over evolutionary time to be effective vehicles for creating new generations of life. Only a self-absorbed existentialist, who can’t get his head out of his own arse, could fail to understand that. Both films, on the other hand, in concluding with the romantic union (symbolic marriage), and the prospect of forthcoming family and children, reveal a far deeper understanding of the human condition than Camus’ narcissistic navel-gazing.
4:05...what if he's wrong and it's like one minute time machine!
sisyphus is dead. in his life he cheated death several times and claimed he was more clever than zeus. when he finally does die, he's sent to tartarus (the part of the underworld where mortals who had sinned against the gods are tortured) and punished for his hubris by being forced to roll a huge boulder up a steep hill, with the boulder always rolling back before he reaches the top. it's true that sisyphus has become an allegory for life made meaningless due to endless repetition, but sisyphus's afterlife is what was made meaningless
What the heck Thomas? This video was released two months ago and I'm not sure why I just found out about it. CZcams's algorithm is the worst
There is no meaning to being stuck here again. It’s just some weird form of torture.
Palm Springs фильм 2020
In both movies, fully realizing it's a made up script, when they know they are practically invincible, the default behavior is to act like a jerk. That's the reality part! Haha
... Did they leave Roy? Or, did he die? Does he disappear the next day!?
Thanks for the comparison.
Sarah told him they were leaving, but he didn't get the message in time and they left without him. I took it as he would know how to leave if he wanted to.
There's an extra 30 seconds at the end of the movie when Roy comes to the wedding and goes to speak to Nyles but Nyles doesn't recognise him and he realises that he's out of the loop
Not accepting the absurd life = voluntarily fooling oneself??
Wait how come you talk about Camus and Kierkegaard but not of Nietzsche? His philosophy was literally about doing things in a way one wouldn't regret no matter what (he put it better xd).
im in the loop now. theres nothing wrong with the loop. im roy.
It’s not easy to create the perfect thumbnail, am I right 🙂❤️
I'm indecisive _okay_ ;)
Thomas Flight I know the feeling 🤜🤛
Always has been... *points gun*
life matters
and lifes parts and peoples matter
that is factual reality
life is not meaningless nor valueless
life is everything that we are
life is everything that exists
it is the very source of and definition of value and meaning
to pretend to not see that takes great effort at censorship and wearing selective blinders
to pretend someone elses life is the only life with value and meaning, not yours, yet insisting they should spend their life babysitting you, is a weird, manipulative, passive-aggressive mindgame
Nyles is named nyles for nihilism i suspect
In the modern age, people have high expectations from their romantic partner. These romantic partners fulfil the requirement of a whole village or community's attention and love, which you can't get because the attention syphoning engineers in google, meta, amazon, have been so successful to drain the social energy (or rather the communal energy) of people. Sarah is everything to Nyles. It's a sad and romantic modern reality.
I leave a comment
🙄🙄🙄
You look like Ethan Hawke in this video lol
I don’t know, I just saw this as a silly rom-com.
Bro what? You're obvi entitled to any opinion but the screen writing and how each little detail (Roy shooting Nyles early on, Nyles recognizing the perfume) had an important role in the film's plot were incredibly smooth and unforced. Anywho, I felt the need to share. Maybe I just like romcoms 🤪
@@mystercraig of course! I’m so sorry if I came across as condescending! I honestly almost forgot I left this comment! You are also absolutely entitled to have as well as share your own opinion of this movie! And those are actually some pretty fair points! I did notice and enjoy a lot of the early setup before the movie’s premise truly revealed itself.
I just personally felt the structure to be a little too “been-there-done-that” for me. I don’t have a problem with that by any means, but that’s why, to me, I just saw this as a silly rom-com.
Again, I’m really sorry if I came across as snooty or condescending or invalidating to differing opinions. Don’t let me tell you what to think, Myster Craig! :)
@@britneyhochman5204 no need to apologise! (but it is gladly accepted nonetheless) thanks for taking the time to respond ✌🏼😛
@@mystercraig no prob! :)
face cam!
You people are all nuts. I suppose you think 'The Scarlet Letter' and 'Moby Dick' are metaphors or something similar or representative of human existence. Next, you'll be applying this over analysis to the Ancient Myths!
Sure thing buddy let’s get you back to bed. Maybe get some tea yeah?
....... waiting for next Parasite video.😂❤️
damn i thought u were older than... i don't know what are you 12? lol.
Hey you spoiled the thing about Palm Springs with your title- I was kind of excited to see it without knowing what the big deal was. It would be cool if you named it something that didn’t give it away..
Your cute and I like you so don’t be mad I’m not
I loved Palm Springs and the philosophy behind it but Sarah was pretty terrible
First!
the most useless movie of this trope is love, wedding and repeat! I'm not over being mad at that movie