Did Vikings Hate Christians? Part One: Romans, Charlemagne and Nuance! Oh my!
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- čas přidán 6. 03. 2023
- Everyone knows the Vikings raided Christian sites like monasteries and abbeys, but did they hate Christian people? Did Christians hate Vikings and Old Norse pagans?
There's more nuance to the story here than first meets the eye, and that's why I'm doing a two-parter for a change! This video takes us from the fall of the Roman Empire, via the rise of the Franks and Charlemagne, through the Migration era and up to the start of the Viking age.
Strap in! Get a drink. Maybe two...
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On the very first point, I did a brief stint of crusade reenacting (mostly the third crusade) and so many people assumed that I also subscribed to the "beliefs" of the crusaders. I had members of public come up to me and make downright racist and anti-semitic remarks thinking it was somehow acceptable simply because I was reenacting this period. I also had the irl modern templars try and approach which was really weird. Yeah this whole lot is why I don't reenact the crusades any more and don't want to.
Fun fact, Islam almost got a hold in the Baltics too. Supposedly when Tsar Vladimir of the Kievan Rus was deciding on a new religion it was between Islam and Greek Orthodoxy, he eventually chose Greek Orthodoxy because Islam had a ban on alcohol to which he said "Drink is the joy of the Rus"
#priorities, gotta love it
@@angela_merkeI That. The Baltics only became part of Russia in the 18th century. Previously, of course, there was the Lithuanian Princedom (or whatever the English words is) and then the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (after Lithuania was Christianised), and Latvia and Estonia had the Teutonic Oder and the subsequent Germanic states following the Reformation, and also Sweden for about a hundred years. (I'm not sure if there was anything resembling a state there before the crusaders.)
Grand Duchy of Lithuania. That's the term I was looking for.
Another, real, fun fact: That state was very religiously diverse. It was much bigger than current-day Lithuania, reaching current-day Belarus and current-day Ukraine. That may be where the mix-up with Kievan Rus comes from. Aside from the pagan beliefs (generic Indo-European flavour with a bit of local flavour, lots of supernatural beings of various calibers sort of thing), there were Catholics following the Christianisation, and Orthodox Christians in the eastern parts, and Protestants after the Reformation, and Muslim Tatars, and Jewish Tatars (Karaims) and Jews of other extractions.
@@beth12svist Before the Northern Crusades there weren't so much states as smaller proto-states of tribal confederations in modern-day Latvia. The Pruthenians that lived in modern day Masuria and Kaliningrad Oblast were as far as I know completely decentralised, with each larger settlement possessing a chieftain or elders of its own.
@@mateuszjokiel2813 Thanks for clarifying that! I vaguely remembered it was something like that but not the exact thing. :-)
"just wanted to get on with the harvest" - I feel like that's a huge element of history that gets ignored, because all the records and the Big Stories which survive centre around a handful of people in power. At any time in history, the vast majority of a country's population didn't give a flying one about the political structure above them, they just wanted to get on with their lives. I think because of the way history is recorded we tend to speak about "the Saxons did [X], the French invaded [X]" when the overwhelming percentage of Saxon or French people had bugger all to do with any of it, they were just getting on with keeping their livestock and children alive.
I feel like he continues people to this day. I live in america where our leaders are actively engaging in a war against palestine. Most of us either think this genocide is terrible and others are probably going to forget it's happening three months from now and concern themselves with the next crisis.
I always love when Jimmy asks if sharing lots of info is ok. Because the answer is always yes, give me more!
YESSSS! Infodumping is a dopamine rush to my autistic brain! Tell me everything!
Give mooooooore *histo zombie noises*
We are here for the history info!
Funny story relating to st Boniface: one of the members of the congregation I attend is a retired art professor/painter with a fascination for Orthodox style icons. Also important to this story is that we live in a community in the US where nearly everyone spoke Dutch as their first language until the Second World War, and most of their ancestors emigrated from the Friesland area. Being as we are the godless heathen church in town (read: not Calvinists), the art professor thought it would be funny to paint an icon of Saint Boniface for the church, because that's the sense of humor he has. He put it up while our pastor was out of town.
Can we get “it’s nuance, baby” merch?
If I were a tshirt-wearer, I would 1000% love to wear one saying "History is all about nuance" or something similar! That constant complexity seems to get SO lost in the way history is usually taught, or how it's discussed in pop culture 😑
I agree, there is a particularly weird assumption that Viking reenactors are somehow Vikings when not kitted up at an event. My guess is it has to do with the fact that large numbers of actual modern Norse pagans engage in the hobby. Couple that with edgelord "wish I lived back then, I'm a Modern Viking" types who cannot seperate their hobby from their personality.
Tbf to the modern Vikings when it’s done right they’re some of the nicest people I’ve ever met once people stop trying to um actually them about the definition of the word Viking and so on and so forth. They usually go hand in hand with the kinds of pagans that delve into history and the sources we have regarding Norse myths and sagas as the basis for their beliefs. The edgelords are sadly common and loud though, I’ll give you that.
@@elliotbishop231 The difference between someone who wears a hammer pendant from a specific grave that they liked vs someone who wears a hammer pendants with ravens, a slavic sunwheel, and an aegishjalmur and elder futhark runes.
@@CollinMcLean elder Futhark runes are ok I think so long as people do their research and understand where it is exactly they’re from. As for Mjolnirs sure go historical if you want, there is a certain level of interpretation acceptable with such jewellery I think.
I've met tourists (presumably American, but I didn't ask) who seemed to think vikings were native Scandinavians in the same way as the native Americans they're more used to. Like we were showing our traditional life, instead of old history. I didn't get a chance to ask or explain, but this is the impression I got.
“Boniface, it’s a great name.” - whenever I read that name, about 70% of the time I mispronounce it in my head as ‘Boney face’. 😝
Which would be the exact same thing the Technical Difficulties people jumped at in the Camp Bonifas episode of Citation Needed. (If you're not familiar, look it up here on CZcams and thank me for the laughs later.)
Which, funnily, concerns a historical story that also involved cutting down a tree, yet had nothing to do with this story.
I think of a cheese commercial when hearing Boniface :D "Bonifaz" is a German cheese brand and I first think of that instead of religion when hearing that name.
‘Bonny face’ as Northern English say or.
I say this as a pagan with more than a few gripes with the church as an organization and a complicated relationship with Christianity as a whole: if someone online starts saying that Old Norse people hated Christianity to the core, they're either uninformed or trying to sell you something (and chances are, they're a bit fascist).
Very precise, I do hate quite a few things about Christendom, but a lot of times, people who spread this misinformation also believe that you have to be yt to worship germanic gods or something.
I dont get the link to fascism?
@Urubutingaz exactly. They just take their white Christian values and apply it to polytheism, something our ancestors would have hated, and we should reject as modern pagans. In that sense, while our practices aren't identical to them, we can carry their spirit.
Very true.
@@sjescone fascists who invoke Germanic pagan imagery usually use the image of pagan warriors combating the church as a metaphor for white supremacists fighting against whoever they can scapegoat. The Nazis did it a lot, though they also used Christianity and images of the Crusades.
"starving peasants just wanted to get on with the harvest"
Like a book I just read, about smugglers in Romney Marsh during the Napoleonic Wars, "What’s it to me which rich man runs the country?” In the end, people who are rarely-to-never at risk, make cynical political decisions that have life-and-death effects over large numbers of people across vast regions. True today as it has ever been.
Thank you for tackling this topic, Jimmy!
KJ Charles, by any chance? 😉
@@daughterofbastet Yup!
I get that more along the lines of, "You're religious? But... you're a scientist!"
Conclusion: humans can make some very weird, silly, & flawed assumptions influenced in part by the inability to realize that humans are complex characters, which honestly says more about the person making the assumption the one they're assuming something about.
My mom always says that, if you assume, then you make an a** out of u and me. It's the same "logic" applied to "you read fantasy books with magic in them" = "you believe in/practice witchcraft". 🤦
The thing about Polytheism is that it is by its very nature flexible, so it'd be weird for them to hate christians just for being a different religion. Rome certainly didn't like christianity but that had more to do with the beliefs of the state rather than the core of roman religion itself (It's a long nuanced conversation about the Pax Deorum, sort of Rome's equivalent to the Mandate of Heaven which is another conversation) and after Constantine christianity had very little problem integrating which makes sense because Rome's very pantheon was a quiltwork of various gods from the Greco-Hellenistic world, the Gauls, the Germans, the Brittons, and the Egyptians. It would make sense that the Norse would overall be ok with christianity because when you worship a pantheon of dozens of gods what is one more?
They probably saw Jesus and thought to themselves "Sweet a new god to fall back on when my crops fail!" and thought very little of worshipping Thor, Odin, Freyja, or Tyr and also occasionally throwing a mention to Jesus Christ.
I've actually even considered throwing him into my own pantheon at times because not only do I worship Norse gods but I also keep a few specific Celtic ones because when I already worship dozens of gods what is one or two more?
I think they actually kind of tackled this mindset in an issue of Neil Gaiman's The Sandman which is *chef's kiss* fantastic for those who haven't read it.
I'm reading a historical novel written by a history professor. (Ofärd by Dick Harrison). It's set in this period and the main character is a Scandinavian who goes to Frankland. He's like "Wow, they seem really powerful and civilized here. It must be because their god is strong. I want in on that." So he starts directing his annual animal sacrifices to "The Great Christian God".
I'm a viking re-enactor, and people on youtube or instagram often assume that I believe in old Norse mythology ect. It's a bit weird sometimes. I'm an atheist. I never have this issue when I'm at events.
I had quite a fun experience of this when setting up a show in Anglesey, a man came wandering around our camp and asked if we were pagan, pointed at a mates hammer and said 'that wouldn't save him' at which point I responded I was Catholic and this seemed to upset him more then if I had been a devout follower of the old gods.
I kinda like that catholic is worse than pagan
Honestly Jimmy, any in-depth video that you want to make would be great - I know that's not terribly helpful but I think quite a few of us are just so happy you're back. Honestly, I just want an in-depth video on whatever YOU'RE most into.
Absolutely spot on!
I also believe that most people just wanted to live a good life and maybe some of those "pagan uprisings" were just later labeled as such. The Thuringians rose up against the Franks not because Wodan was more beloved or something but simply because the Franks enforced a massive tribute of pigs every year and didn't reduce their demand when a famine struck the land.
Thuringians literally bled for being able to make enough sausage to survive the next winter.
Extra shameful because Thuringian sausage is among the best in the world
Never get between a Germanic and their pork.
My green little heart feels pain at the thought of destroying the groves, not because of any religious sentiment... I'm just fond of trees.
Also, it's always nice to hear "Calcifer's silly saucepan song".
I love this so much! The religious aspect of history seems to be over-simplified far too often. I appreciate the nuance.
Hell yeah (Hel yeah?) more Socio-cultural history! This stuff is always the best; I’ve gotten asked about religion more than a couple times at my events, and I’ve kinda just defaulted to a shoulder shrug because explaining what deism is to people is kinda weird, and they just assume because you’ve got a hammer pendent that you’re a fervent pagan, and they seem really weirded out by the people at our events with little cross pendents on
I'm always happy when my neighbour-town Verden is mentioned somewhere because it's very rural here, so nobody knows anything about this Region - unfortunately, it's assossiated with the killing of many people ^^"
Jimmy, just a little help with the pronounciation of Verden because how should you know - it's FERden, with a F. In German if a word starts with a V, it is mostly spoken as a F. Like" Vogel" (bird).
I learn more in 20 minutes with you than I did in semesters of college. Thanks for all your hard work Jimmy!
Ooooh love it, more please! Always a pleasure to hear you chatting history Jimmy, very engaging as always. :) roll on part 2!
Excellent video as always. As a Mennonite Christian, I'm of the opinion that the worst thing to ever happen to Christianity was when it became palatable to anyone with political and military power. So I found this a fascinating look at a bunch of times the religion I follow went down the wrong path (with horrific results). Anabaptists are a tiny fraction of Christianity who've been trying to find where we went wrong and get back on track, but we've only been around for the last 500 years, not much in the grand scheme of things!
Also, I do 18th century North American French colonial reenactment and no one's ever assumed I was Catholic in real life!
As a Czech Protestant (for lack of a better English term), I can assure you, Christians have been trying to figure out where we went wrong for a very long time. :P
(It goes back a little bit further with us, plus in my crash course of Christian history as told by my church we touched on other people before that who went "waitaminute" at the excesses of official church.)
@@beth12svist are you a Huttite?
@@fnansjy456 Do you mean Hussite? 🙂
My church is officially called "Evangelical Church of Czech Brethern" in English but "evangelical" is not the same thing as the English-language evangelical; "evangelická církev" in Czech is more along the lines of "relying more on the Bible than tradition AKA Protestant". ECCB is I believe quite an outlier in the anals of Christian history, because it did not come to be by separating itself from an older one, but the opposite: it was created by several churches uniting (again, so to say), in 1918 in the newly formed Czechoslovakia. It draws on the traditions of Hussites/Utraquists, the original Unity of Brethern/Unitas Fratrum, Lutheranism & Calvinist Reformed churches. That is entirely the result of the history of Protestantism in Czechia - the first two are our local early strands that were prohibited for a couple centuries, and then for a century or so only the other two were allowed, so all the previously secret "Czech Brothers" had to pick one of the two. So after the creation of Czechoslovakia, the majority of existing Czech Protestants went "We all know we're far more Czech Protestants than Lutherans or Calvinists, let's unite again." (I specify "existing" because there was a big "away from Rome" movement at the time so there were also a lot of _new_ Protestants; that is where the current day "Czechoslovak Hussite Church" comes from - _also_ drawing on the Hussite/Utraquist tradition, obviously.)
So, yeah, all that is why I say "Protestant, for lack of a better English term." 😆
I remember seeing pictures of amulets that had Mjolnir at one end and the Cross on the other end. I also read that there was a process of primsigning done by a priest to make a Viking an honorary Christian long enough to do business with Christians. When it comes to money, humans will always find a way.
That’s… really not what happened at all considering the Venetians were involved heavily in almost all the crusades as a naval power, were Catholic, and were in direct competition with Muslim traders. The last crusade being the ninth was also an almost entirely Anglo-French venture that everyone but Edward abandoned whilst in Sicily.
Also, what Muslim Mediterranean?
Hi Jimmy, I hope that you realize that you've just made me a bloated alcooholic with your "nuance" drinking game as it's my favorite position in any discussion and in life in general....
Also if you're looking for rabbit holes to dive into you could do worse than to check out brittany! the language is so similar to welsh that I had elderly welsh relatives that came to brittany on holiday to keep on practicing their welsh and also bucket loads of the travel between northern europe and the med came past here and so the cultural influences are very diverse but also we stayed a small but independant state/nation/region for a good while into the maps you were showing... just a thought...
Thanks for you videos and also for being kind to those of us that love the content and would love to be able to help financially but can't at this time!
Ice bucket challenge: beware stealth baptism
Oh!!! New Welsh Viking vid! Yes! I love nuance too, one of the reasons I like your videos. If you feel like making more videos on Charlemagne and the Franks, I'll be delighted to watch. It's such chaotic and interesting era. Also the drinking game with a pint of Guinness is fun 😋
I don't know what I appreciate more, the Roman Empire tripping over its own balls or the missionary calling people to come over and get dunked.
A deep dive on Olga of Kiev would be amazing! :) But I'm here for all of it!
Seconded
I live on a Friesan island.... looks like I'm going sacred grove hunting! Perhaps a small bit remains 😁
I’d like to think so! Probably not on Heligoland what with… all the ah… bombs and stuff. But is that still counted as Friesland, culturally?
@@TheWelshViking I live on Vlieland which technically was part of North Holland but you can see Nordic influences in the oldest grave stones in the church which is built over an even older sacred site. Isn't history fun? ❤
Can't wait for part 2!! This is a topic I have a lot of interest in but haven't found many good sources
Greetings from Utrecht.
They updated the cathedral, but it's still there. There's a replica of the runestone of Harald Bluetooth right next to it, which ties in nicely with the subject of the christianization of the Norse.
This is a question I've been mulling over a lot lately! As a writer of fiction (although not historical up till now), I've been tempted to try my hand at a story set during the Viking Age, but I struggle with being able to get into the headspace of people during the period, knowing that however historically scrupulous I try to be at some point the fiction needs to make decisions about stuff that we can't ultimately know. We can make informed guesses, but there are a lot of blanks to be filled in. There are a lot of tropes to be avoided or at least interrogated, especially with regard to the notions of pagan vs. Christian. Blah, blah, blah--the real point is: discussions like this are so great in reminding us that humanity of any era is complicated and seldom conforms to the generalizations we're tempted to make.
A fundamental thing to remember is that no matter the age you're looking at, the people who live in it are still people.
If you are thinking about these topics before writing your novel, you are most probably putting in more effort to understand the period than 95% of historical fiction writers of this period and your novel might not become perfect, but better than most. So go on with it, I say! As long as you do your homework and try your best to understand the period and mentality, you're allowed to fill in the blank spaces. :)
I love your comment! I have read many fantasy novels that incorporate the Viking/Norse type people. Ehhg. I'm always disappointed by the crutch of the "strapping blonde northerners" trope. Thanks for giving this thought and considering how to incorporate history in a way that does not perpetuate stereotypes!
I would love a video on Charlemange. This is great history. And very timely. Thanks for doing the research!
Thank you for mentioning Verden and the Irminsul.
Saxon and Frisian history is always fascinating. Great video.
As a polytheist, I don't believe in God, I believe in ALL Gods!
I would not have fit in very well back then.🤔
Awww, appreciate the shout out mate! Great video as always!
A Jimmy video! Yay!
Mark 16:6 King James Version (KJV)
And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Accept Yahawashi/Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. You will be given eternal life and be saved. (Luke 21:11, Matthew 24:7, Revelation 18:23)
@1CT1 from one Christian to another: This is a highly ineffective way to tell people about Jesus. Maybe try loving others in your real life as Jesus actually commanded us to because random preachy comments don't endear people to Christianity. It is going to do more damage than good. Public displays were what the Pharisees did, and Jesus was pretty clear on his opinions about them. So maybe think twice about this approach.
He was killed after he chopped down a grove of trees
me: *He had it coming*
**he had it coming** 🎶
I have always been a devout Catholic, but have been fascinated with Pagan Cultures (specifically with Norse Paganism) since I was a little kid. And I have had a complicated relationship with my faith since a few years now due to figuring out I am queer. So this video was really fascinating.
My Catholic ancestors came to America from the Alsace in the 1720s. They were believed to have originated as
Scandinavians who descended down the Rhine seeking farmland and intermingled with Western European peoples and a very small minority of Eastern European/Mediterranean types. As Scandinavians they may or may not have been “Vikings” but we do know coming to America they brought their Alsatian/Germanic foods and language (which they continued to conversationally speak until the late 1930s (hmmmmm 🤔) along with French and English and Liturgical Latin.
As always your spectacularly interesting Narratives you weave into delightful stories are amazingly informative and entertaining. Looking forward to Part Deaux.
Great video and super interesting topic. Can't wait for part two. The division of Christian v pagan is absolutely nuanced. There are both sides ...but the middle is where most people existed.
Also- would love a series on the rise of the Franks. Clovis is such an interesting figure.
More nuance for you from a bit further east. The sacred groves reminded me of St Vojtěch/Adalbert, who got killed just for unknowingly venturing into one (at least according to accounts). By the old Prussians (Baltic tribe, nowadays it's Poland) who presumably had different standards from the Germanic tribes. ETA: Apparently, previously he did fell some trees, so whether it was unknowing or not can be a matter of debate.
I'm bringing him up because Czechia at the time (10th century) was already nominally Christian, but Vojtěch was a bit more Christian in conviction than a lot of other people including apparently the Přemyslids in Prague. Vojtěch came from the Slavník family of Libice and was bishop of Prague, until he had to flee to Rome and become a missionary because he got the Přemyslids very angry because he criticised them for dabbling in slave trade and stuff like that (including the population sliding back into pagan practices). And the Přemyslids had it in for the Slavníks. So much so that they attacked and massacred them during a religious holiday, near a church. The feast of St Václav, at that, who was a Přemyslid. And had been killed near a church during a religious holiday, by his own brother.
Early medieval politics, baybeee.
Nuance? In MY history of religion? It's more likely than you think.
I think in general people have a tendency to want to see history in a black and white way, and also not only project modern concerns onto the past but also assume that things were worse i.e. people were more narrow-minded or less tolerant etc. Looking at what we actually know (or can extrapolate based on evidence) often tells us that people were far more complex, a lot of them just wanted to live their lives, and also there's so much more individual variation than you'd imagine.
Thanks for the video! Looking forward to the next one
One of the things that I disliked the most about the portrail of norse pagans in the Vikings tv series is that polytheists were painted (literally: Insert image of floki wearing ~makeup~ warrior paint) as fanatic Christian haters, when most of the time they were pretty chill about it. I bursted out laughing when you were talking about saint Bonniface
petition for "it's nuance, baybee!" to be the next merch design
Can't wait for part 2!
In Estonia the Baltic-German nobles and priests complained that they can't fully christianise Estonians, because the Estonian language(s) lacked abstract words. How are you gonna teach about sins, salvation, piety and so on when the language is not compatible and the peasants only think about their rye?
Do you mean the Teutonic Order in the Baltics from the 13th century on? They were on a crusade there to christianize and subordinate the Slavic peoples there. This sounds very much like the limited perspective of these nobles and how they viewed these "savages". I strongly doubt that there existed any language in this time that did not have abstract words. Translation can be difficult, of course.
6:45 "What is this? A cathedral for ants???"
Search for "The Madonna in the Church" by Jan van Eyck if you're into disturbing Dark Souls-like giant saints :D
"How do you expect the Pagans to be converted if they can't even fit inside the building?!"
Ah, FRIESLAND! Home of big, fluffy black warhorses!
Great video, very excited about part 2! A comment regarding Charlemagne's supposed execution of 4000 Saxons or more at the town of Verden: It is disputed if the numbers are highly exaggerated. We only have one source about this (the annals of the empire), and they had an interested in pushing the numbers up to show everyone "don't mess with us". This was very common in these times, so you always have to take such numbers with more than a grain of salt. It is also disputed which role religion played in the conflict between Frankians and Saxons, or if it should rather be seen as political power play. (I tend to think that it is a modern view to distinguish religion and politics as different spheres, which doesn’t fit the premodern mentality well.) In these times, the Frankians couldn't effectively rule over a region without it being dotted with a network of monasteries and churches, since these were the only places where administrative functions could be carried out (since only clergy could read and write). The whole story of Charlemagne brutally christianizing the "German" pagan Saxons became big in later nationalist German propaganda from the 19th century on.
We have three sources! But the numbers were probably exaggerated. Even then, doing so is basically heroic poem fodder for the Saxons. Religion and politics are deeply intertwined as I touch on in the video (see baptism, cynical conversion etc) and you can look at missionaries as a form of “hearts and minds” politico-cultural inroad for the Franks.
Also: the concept that only clergy could read is absolutely debunked. We know for a fact that education was much more widespread, and administrative work was usually carried out by secular officers in palaces, not at monasteries. That’s really a very 19th century theory.
@@TheWelshViking Ah, ok. 👍
@@TheWelshViking I didn't know that the point about the clergy is so out of date - thanks!
Every time I watch one of your videos I get the Saucepan song stuck in my head.
When growing up in Sweden, you were told(including my generation) that Ansgar converted the swedes. And now I can’t for the life of me of many times they burned down the church he built in Birka. But they burned down his last one after he died. He tried, we can give him that.
I hope you will adress the "Heliand" next video or a video in the future! For anyone who doesnt know what the Heliand is; its a book commisioned by Louis the pious and written by a Saxon monk. Essentially its the story of Christ, but then converted in the style of a saxon heroic poem/ saga, so Jesus christ is a powerful and wise warlord/ king and his apostles are presented as his warriors/ huscarls. Truly a wonderful and fun read!
A video on Charlemagne would be very interesting - it's a name I've heard of but don't really know anything about!
Here for all of it, love how you approach each topic. Pick any you fancy. As you asked for a suggestion, more on Verden would be on my wish list. The impact to the society must have been so enormous. Curious to see which connections you would make in a video.
Fascinating! Looking forward to part 2 :)
O yeaaa!!! It's always a good day when u upload.
Very excited for a more indepth topic. Not at all excited about having to wait a couple weeks for part two.
Great video as always! excited for part 2 :)
"pretty loosey-goosey as long as you're not hurting anyone" is my stance on religion in general, pagan or Christian. 😂
I'm reading a book about the historical side of Hecate, tracing her appearances and worship. It's generally believed that she was basically adopted into the Greek pantheon from elsewhere - I think it's really cool that a deity could become established somewhere other than their native land and be adopted like that.
Happens all the time. Many of the "birthplaces" of the gods in greek mythology are references to where their cults first reached.
Aphrodite's birthplace is Cypress because when her cult arrived from Babylonia that's where they made landfall in the Greek world. Her origins are with the sumerian goddess Ishtar.
Hephaestus I think came from Anatolia and his cult then arrived in Lemnos.
Ares... we don't have any clear roots to his origins in Thrace... that may have just been ancient Greek racism...
Looking forward to part 2. Excited for more nuance.
Love this topic, thanks so much!! Looking forward to part two❗️
Thank you for all the hard work and research you put in for these videos. Fantastic channel!!
Honestly I will happily listen to you talk about just about any topic so whatever video strikes your fancy to make, is perfect for me. =D
Watched this within a couple hours of the raven banner one. Very neat hearing about the complexities of the different religious systems existing together. Thank you for emphasizing the nuance. I like when people acknowledge that people and the situations we create are complicated. It makes history lessons so much more useful.
Super interesting, thanks for your ongoing time
I can't tell you how much I look forward to part 2. It is so refreshing the way your narrative is presented. I find it most engaging and informative.💯
Goodness! I look forward to every video you put out, but this one has shot to the top of my favorite videos yet. I've laughed so hard! Can't wait for part two...
Awesome to see your more *nuanced* explanations! Would love to see more in-depth ones :)
Jimmy that’s such a great overview. It helps me place more of the historical references. Thanks
I love that you try to make difficult topics easy to understand.
Wonderful, and I look forward to part two. When it comes to history, I like lots of details, details of facts! Thanks.
Commenting for the algorithm. Great video as always ❤️
Wonderful! This is such a mess, I'm awed that you're trying to tackle it. Yay!
I would love extended videos on everything. All of it. Please and Thank You.
What a great video, I can't wait for the next one! I'm glad you explained about the Franks and Visigoths (and the others in that area). I was kind of confused about the Germanic area but now I have a better understanding! Thanks!
Welcome back!I do like how your mind works.. Vive les nuances! Nuance--hic!
I would love to watch more great videos from you about Charlemagne and the Franks!
And this video was a pleasure to watch.
I’d love vids on the vikings moving in to france and frankiah history in general. Love your vids jimmy
I recently started playing ck3 and love it, so funny that you mentioned it!
It's 10:30 in the morning...a bit early for "nuanced" drinking--I'm not in college anymore! But I always enjoy a lecture from Professor Jimmy while I do embroidery on my apron.
Thank you. Fascinating as always.
I'm a big, big fan of nuanced takes on history, so keep 'em coming!
A lot of my early learning about history came via James Burke's programs (Connections, Day The Universe Changed) and while I know now that one can't take his presentation as gospel (as it were) because he was using the "telling a good story" technique to get the viewer to look at things a certain way, what he did get across is that you always have to look at the interconnected reasons for things, there's never a "this, then that, then that" linear path for ANYthing that happened.
Reminds me of a line in the film “the Field”, something like: “‘Tis but a thin veneer of Christianity that we’ve painted over these heathens”
This is a subject that I never thought about before but I loved learning about!
From what I've read, ancient polytheists seemed to think there was a single set of gods, not that the Greek gods were different beings to the Egyptian gods, for example (arguably Christians thought the same thing but assumed that everyone else's gods were demons).
That was definitely how the pre-Christian Romans saw it. We would call it cultural imperialism today.
I love this, it’s always fun to learn more!
I'd love to learn a bit more about the Viking settlement of Dublin and the Scots around 1000ad, I reckon with you'd do both justice
I've being watching this on repeat... Serotonin boost!!
I'd be interested in the Celtic Christian era. Maybe some thoughts on the book "How the Irish saved civilisation" and subsequent BBC doco.
Beard game is strong Jimmy, looking good.
I loved this video -just subscribed. Either way, it would have been neat if you'd put a link to part 2 in a pinned comment.
I'm watching this whilst laid out with the flu. Thank goodness I'm drinking tea, at least I'm really well-hydrated now!
Yay for the courses in Latin! Much like my 3 semesters of Koine Greek that I took as electives (almost took a directed study in Latin, but the prof didn't have the spare time that year)
I think you covered 1 hours worth already with your speed talk. Great job, thanks.
Omg Jimmy I love you, but I was trying to drink my lovely cup of tea while watching & the amount of times I nearly choked with laughter was ridiculous… 🤣
MOOORE PLEASE! JEPPJEPP, MORE VIDEO THANK YOU.
I read Charlemange as Champagne and got all excited! Never mind, I'll just have to watch the video now. Although, yay new Welsh Viking video!
One of the nuances I remember from undergrad medieval history was how many of the gothic tribes who crossed over into roman territory had already converted to Christianity, but they had adopted a (in catholic terms) heretical Arian (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism) faith While the Franks and Saxons who had not converted until after entering the remains of the empire were converted to the Catholic church. This had the effect that the Pope and catholic hierarchy supported Frankish expansion over the Gothic Burgundian Lombard & Vandal kingdoms because they saw it as a way to break the power of the Arian priests who were favoured by these kings. (its late and I hope this makes sense)
"A lot of people would clock the banners..." Reminds me of what the old man says in Joseph Heller's Catch-22... "You'll find no more loyal parties in all of Italy than myself..." Good video, Jimmy! Hugs