2023 Land Rover Defender 90 Model X or P400 XS + £20,000. We review & compare.
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- In this video we trade in our Land Rover Defender 90 Model X and collect a new P400 XS and get a £20K refund from the dealer. We review both cars side by side.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Thanks for the comparison review Simon. Nice to see the chip shortage is improving, I only just received my 2nd key after 4 months and I know others are still waiting. Mileage on my 2023 P400 110 has averaged 17.3 mpg (US) 20.8 mpg (UK), mixed driving and about 1200 miles total. At first glance looks like you have the base "Meridian" system versus the "Meridian Surround" you'll see stamped on those front door speakers, compare with your X to verify. As others have mentioned, I like the smaller Pivi screen and it's neater integration with the car. Missing the digital dash, analogue is ok but not my preference. I understand there may be a software download to tame the aggression in the engine start, not sure the S/W version number.
Great Video - I’m a v.happy / satisfied owner of a 663 V8 (totally reliable, after 15k miles, so far) … based on this you’ve got me seriously thinking about replacing my jeep JK / 2 door with a 90 in the same spec as your latest, except in white (it’ll live in a hot climate / Arizona / black is not good there). I’m calling up the dealer on Monday. Hope you get kudos from JLR for promoting their products! Keep up the good work. thx.
OK so first I am pretty jealous of the V8 ! These are great cars that are super safe and capable. There are some areas Land Rover can improve on the interior but these are minor points..
Thanks Simon , just love your enthusiasm, it’s addictive. Please May I ask for your new 90 you do a generic rear wheel cover in Santorini black. I’d be in the market for one tomorrow
Just watched this video, Simon. Very informative regarding a small but significant change for the 2024 90: the ability to fold the rear seat bottom up and forward to allow the seat back to fold down and FLAT. (I believe this has always been standard on the 110??)
I am in America and have had a 2022 X Dynamic 90 for 2 years. Love it except for the fact that I can’t fold the back seat flat (so my Flat Coat Retriever rides in my wife’s Audi Allroad instead).
Now if JLR would just add a suicide door so folks could easily avail themselves of that spacious rear seating area!
My lease expires in 10 months and I guess I’m going to have to replace the 90 with a 110 so I can really use the back seat and cargo area fully.
It will be great to see the upcoming videos on this Defender 90 XS. Personally I like the lighter accent colour on the front and back and inside the cabin. I think all back will be too much, but it will be fun to see whatever you do 👍
The lighter headlining is better for filming - the black headlining seemed to suck all the light from the interior.
Great review Simon, love the 90's. I've just had my first service at 32,000km on my 2022 P400 here in Australia and it hasn't skipped a beat. It's still beautiful to drive. Plus it's got a few of your products on it.
Hi Michael - one issue i have with the 90 - and i will feature this on a video is the "pitchiness" as you accelerate - with the lights on at night you can see how much the lights raise when you accelerate ! it is much more than on the 110 - do you have this issue ?
@@L663 not that I've been aware of. I've done a bit of country driving in the dark, which I shouldn't do due to the Kangaroos and haven't noticed this issue, I'll have a good look next time. Looking forward to seeing that video on it and love your passion for Land Rovers.
Perfect timing! Love the number plate with the 663 - as you say if you know you know! I've just collected my 110 D300 SE and already fitted your roof bars and rubber boot mat so everything does not fly about. I actually prefer the smaller Pivi screen as it fits the dash lines better and I guess that was the original design spec.
Looking forward to watching progress - especially the chinese light grill bar!
The number plates were cheap from the DVLA - the are Northern Irish plates but UK road legal. Thanks for purchasing our parts !
Thank you very much Simon for this very lovely review! I still dream of being able to afford a new Defender one day, but for now I'm pleased with my late Freelander 2.
Late Freelander 2 is top motor - well sorted and vary capable.
Hi Simon, would you consider doing a long term comparison/log between the 6 pots given we have a choice between P400 vs D300 in UK? From towing, fuel consumption, reliability, power delivery etc which I am sure you are full of ideas ! This would be a brilliant insight compare different powertrains. Thanks in advance!
I quite like the silver bits on the bumpers, they go well with the alloys, especially noted when you drove off. Think about it a while before you go wrapping.
Simon, now you've got your lovely 90XS with the fridge, will you be making a compatible version of the Front Armrest Storage Tray? (I bought the standard Type B to see if I could adapt: answer=No)
Hi Simon, I've had my 90 xs P400 for a couple of weeks now. Absolutely fantastic engine IMO.
FYI I'm getting an average of 22.8mpg on mostly B road driving.
Best wishes Richard.
This is pretty similar to the Stig so I will be quite happy with that !
Regarding the front light bar , I swear today a saw what looked like your rear spoiler but one for the front and it appeared to sit above the front wind screen but fixed to the roof. It had lights above driver and passenger side. Nothing in the middle part. I thought that would look great on my fl2.
Urban do a very nice from light pod for the roof.
Oh how jealous am I, that is gorgeous !
Another excellent video Simon - will you be putting the Plumb accessories on this one??
I am struggling with PLUMB - the pricing is just too much and they are not very open to tweaks like changing from rivets to rivnuts etc....but i do like their products. I asked them for the rear boxes in black plastic not carbon which would make them cheaper and they were not interested.... they want to keep them out of price reach of most people...
How come you managed to get a car with a digital dash, when most of use have to put up with the crapy analogue one with the digital insert & no 360 camera!
So the question is can you retro fit the 360 camera & can I get a the analogue dash changed for the digital dash?
I’ve had the 110 P400 for nearly two years as a blue light response vehicle. Goes very well - on and off road. Absolutely love it.
Love it in black, great comparison video, just wondering?? I really hope the dealer hasn’t been watching you dismantling the X 😜
Shh
Excellent video Simon, one of your best. I now have an "itchy wallet".
Dangerous !
An honest question Simon: Do you think that most of the gremlins that beset the early Defender2 have now been resolved? I need to buy a new vehicle (price is not an issue for me) but am totally phased by the technology of modern cars. I have owned Defenders 300 TDis and TD5s since 1997 and am scared of this current computer controlled vehicle syndrome.
@@colinkey7094 Yes I do think that most of the issues have been resolved - there are still a few issues - some people are getting water leaking into the battery compartment under the seat but the vast majority of vehicles are problem free. The key for me is to find a good dealership that understands the car and gives good customer support.
@@L663 Thank you Simon.
I built a removable flat rear deck that rides over the back seats and crossmember. I just remove the rear seat base, lay the seat backs flat and lay the foldable rear platform out across the back so that it’s supported by the seat backs, the crossmember and a small boxed storage that lays in the rear boot space. Due to the difference in height from the crossmember to the boot floor, I built a small drawer space underneath the platform to level and support it plus it gives me additional storage. It’s a prototype but just tested it out on a 3000 mile round trip and it worked perfect. I can take it in and out and have the seats back in place in 5-10 mins. It will need some polishing to get the fit exact and I want to carpet wrap it. I plan to build another one since I had a few ideas to make it a sleeper platform on one side.
MPG if anyone is wondering, I average about 13-15 mpg in the city with a lot of stop and go. On the highway in ECO mode I’ve gotten 19.1 without the roof rack, Side Box and Ladder. With all of those items on the vehicle and 2 Roam boxes on the rack and 350lbs of cargo I averaged 15.8 mpg on a 3000 mile round trip into the mountains from Texas to Yosemite, Ca and back. Not sure how that ranks in the UK but here it’s just okay not great but then again it’s not the most aerodynamic vehicle so…. The hardest part is the premium gas. $3.50/gal in the US ($5-6/gal in California) but diesel is $4.75-$6/gal just about everywhere in the US so I’ll take the petrol motor. The mpg is going to very greatly depending we’re you live. I’m primarily 460-600ft above sea level.
We have a shelf design with drawer in the design stage also - but this would just fit into the very rear section.
Is the E Diff really necessary if they have ETC ??????
Congratulations/good luck ❤❤🙏🙏
Thanks Mr Virdi !
Hi Simon,
I’m a recent fan of your videos which I’m finding really useful as I gear up to ordering my very first defender! I think the xs is the best bang for buck all things considered but the one thing I really don’t like (which you can’t seem to change on the online configuration for the xs) is the ivory headlining. I much prefer the black so was wondering if you knew if an aftermarket change was possible for this? I’ve done some searching but can’t find anything so wondered if you guys have any thoughts given your vast defender knowledge!! Changing to a model with the black headlining option brings a chunky cost increase im struggling to justify 😞
Thanks in advance and keep up the great work…
Robin
Hi robin glad your enjoying our videos. I am not aware of an aftermarket headlining. I used to be a big fan of black headliner until the l405 and it actually is depressing but there is no sunroof. Make sure you sit in both before wanting the black
Petrol, a proper power plant. Leave the crappy electric motors for Flymo's.
Yes its P400 - still need to work out how the hybrid works
Nice review, god waiting for the front seats to move forward took me back to my days with my Evoque coupe (which I loved), so these beasts look great externally but some dinosaur inners still. They really do need to up their game in terms of tech. Rear seats not folding flat hmmmm....
Yes the handling / ride / performance / capability of the new Defender is excellent - but the interior of the 90 can be improved... minor points but it would so nice to fold flat to load in a fridge or washing machine etc..... borrowing your daughters Honda Jazz to move a washing machine is not a good look !
@@L663 I'm thinking the biggest gain by having a flat floor would be for dog owners, with three doors and slow wind seats the rear would ideally be flat to get the fur balls in. Oh well.
Sleeping solution for inside please Simon 👍
New 90 looks great! Much prefer it to the previous one. That electric seat business would drive me nuts though. What a pain that would be if it was pouring with rain. So many motors these cars must need a battery the size of a house!
Totally agree
Hey, Simon. How about lifting The Stig ? There's a few kits available now for both 90 and 110.
I can do this with the IDD tool - I did have a play but to be honest i am pretty happy with the height.
Just wondered whether Tom had watched your "dismantling" videos before he made you that offer. 😂
Shhh !
Didn’t realise they have deleted roof rails on the XS, mine has them but it’s a 110. Also USB A in rear used to be USB C.
Yes the USB C's did appear in the rear for a brief moment.... then the USB totally disappeared... now they are back to 2 x USB A
I would think a retrofit locking fuel flap kit would be a fairly popular option if it can be done?
Yes we have a plan that will unlock the car when it sees the engine start and stays open for 5 minutes after shut off.
eagerly waiting for the light bar 😎
We were testing it last week.... nearly there !
It would be interesting if you could do a video that explains the mild hybrid technology used on both petrol and diesel engines, including showing the components and how they react and interact on the road. I had a demo on the D250 110 diesel a few weeks ago and I could not, for the life of me, discern the mild hybrid system working at all. I suspect that it is simply an advanced Uber-expensive alternator that also works as an electric motor at some times, purely putting a handful of extra horses through the wider than normal fan belt . Is my suspicion or theory correct?
Huw - I too want to understand this - we did look at some of the components when we removed the rear seats - the battery seems small. These is no visible indicator of the 48v battery charge in the Pivi system! I too have not noticed any difference
@@L663
Do these engines even have a starter motor or is it all done through the hybrid system? Looking to your right as you look in the bonnet [the engine’s left], under the plastic cover, there is certainly a big ‘thing’ that is connected through the serpentine belt and pulley. What is it, in normal car terms?
@@hedydd2 There is a starter motor but also has a BISG (Battery Integrated Starter Generator). When conditions are correct and during auto stop/start - the BISG will be used to crank the engine rather then the starter motor. The 48V battery supplies the BISG, electric supercharger and 12V functions.
@@arsenalftw1
The BISG must be the big lump linked to the serpentine flat belt?
@@hedydd2 Yeah you're right. It resembles an alternator and sits on the nearside of the engine bay
Just to add that you CAN. Fold the rear seats flat. Just lift the seat base forward and lower the headrest and it all folds flat
Not really flat - they have improved the design now
Simon when will you get a solution from JLR for a camping mode for the battery life extension? Summer is coming and that will be very useful for camping.
Ah yes... JLR never confirm or deny anything and if they do come up with a solution I doubt they will contact me ! but I do get the odd anonymous comment from what i assume to be JLR engineers from time to time !
@@L663 thank you for the response. How difficult is it for JLR to program in the Remote App an camping modus ? So we can open the doors without the PVI system draining the batteries?
Did you sell your SJI 90 with your upgrades or did you put it to totally standard (??), obviously your spoiler had stayed. 🙂
The spoiler stayed and the gloss black interior stayed but the rear seats were put back to standard and the PLUMB side boxes were removed as was the Range Rover Steering wheel.
Congrats 🎉 that was a great offer from JLR. 113mile journey yesterday (no rain or high winds, relatively flat journey, London to Norfolk) in my P400 X 90 and the journey record is showing 23.7 mpg. Any chance of designing a rear basket so we can dump the hamster hammock ? 😅🤓
Hi Steven - 23.7 is as good as I have ever managed with THE STIG P300 ! I looked again at the basket - I wondered about having one higher up so it was more of a roof basket but there is just very little room. The place there is room is the area around the rear window recess.. so working on using this better.. maybe even a basket on the rear door ?... still looking ..
@@L663 sounds good, there’s not much room to play with that’s for sure. I’ve also been strapping my full size umbrella to the back of the headrests as the hammock can’t even hold that 😅🤓
Well done
Simon has anyone developed using the inbuilt camera system as a dash cam system?? Surely getting into the cambus will allow recording of what the camera see??
Be interesting to see this..
I did look at this - when the wade sensors failed on THE STIG and the dealers could not fix them i did look at the image processor as this was the same ECU that controls the wade sensors ( oddly as the wade sensors are just parking sensors) . These Defenders is LVDS signal - this is low voltage digital Signal and its really difficult to "spy" on these signals - they are in effect encoded ! The clearview camera seems like a simple video signal but not the other 360 cameras. Your idea is brilliant and we can do this on our Tesla.
Yeh it seems a missed opportunity really as with the remote app you get journey routes (tracker) it’s a shame you can’t get footage too from the massive amount of cameras setup already in the vehicle.. obvs it would have to be set up to just store incidents like on dash cams or you’d have to have a massive memory. Or live feed through the app and store in the cloud..
thanks as ever SIMON. Top work and love ever video.
Which has the cheaper tax Simon?
Does your new model 90 have the "soft-close" rear boot door? -- My one-year-old North American-market P400 90 may be among the last to get the soft-close rear door.
Both of our 90's do not have soft close !
To honest I think the P400 in black looks better than the X model you have traded.
Black out the front and rear Valence's is all it needs really. 20£k well saved and lots of of content to come. Will be very interested to hear how the mpg works out.
Yes I am actually pretty happy with the new one.... and Mrs Powerful who controls the finance is pretty happy with the 20K refund !
@@L663 I
It sounds like Mrs Powerful is a very wise woman.👍
@@phillipchandler8862 Mrs Powerful, who you should see in our company outing to Eastnor Castle video coming soon , used to work in the space industry and is pretty clever... just questionable taste in men !
Lovely Land Rover Simon 🚘🚙🚗👍👍👍👍⭐️⭐️⭐️
Thanks Jimmy - its a nice car for sure and the 20K back is nice too !
Range Rover Classic 2 Door Seats just tilted and slide forward at the drop of a hat !!!!!!! all mechanical hence reliable - LR ought to offer a Manual Operation Option
Very good video 👌🏼
Thank you 👍
It’s a car marque I’m sure I’ll own once it’s 10 years old or so, working in the NHS doesn’t allow you to have such extravagances so will have to enjoy it through you
I am kind of lucky in that we can buy these on the business....
@@L663 I’d be no good at business 😂
Add fixed side steps and gloss black wheel arches
Indeed !
Were you required to take the D300 back to the factory specification or did the dealer take it back with all the modifications?
I'd have taken off the rear spoiler - assuming it can be removed without damaging the paintwork......
I clearly put the back seats in and removed the Range Rover steering wheel - i left the spoiler and the gloss black interior upgrade.
Has it got an electric tow hook? I don't think you mentioned that.
No - we have lost this feature - I will look out for one on ebay
Have you noticed that the six cylinder diesel has a coolant to air intercooler on top of the engine rather than the original launch edition four cylinder engines that have an air/air intercooler mounted low down behind the bumper, rather vulnerable to being clogged by mud and cowshit?
Ah - let me take a look at that..
I'd love to see a way to maximize what little space there is under the boot where the jack is in a P400 90.
Retro fot for the Rear-exit detection on the interior of the doors would be cool as well. I miss that feature working in the city double parked or near a bike lane ha!
Yes definitely some under floor storage, every little helps.
Has the XS got the Meridian sound system?
Yes I does to my delight
I would like to know how to download the Adaptive Cruse Control?
There are companies that do this and I believe this can also be done with the GAP Diagnostics IID tool - I will give it a go !
Boom Boom!!
Looks like Tom played a blinder. It’s on their website for £5K over what they sold it to you for 3 months ago.
Good stalking - I guess he was going to sell it for a premium but I am happy and he is happy and we get access to more cool cars to share on the channel !
Hello, your video is as usual PERFECT thank you, it is very well explained, would it be possible for you to make one also to defend it hybrid P400 e because some models have not had the desired finishes, and you are the only one to give us advice to improve the finishes on this model and to provide us with the necessary equipment that we find only at home. You are great. Don't change anything to your system. We are not a fan of it. Regards. JP
Bonjour, votre vidéo est comme d'habitude PARFAIT merci, elle est très bien expliqué, vous serait-il possible d'en faire une aussi pour le défender hybride P400 e car certains modèles ont pas eu les finitions désirer, et vous êtes le seul à nous donner des conseils pour améliorer les finitions sur c'est modèle et à nous fournir le matériel nécessaire que l'on trouve que chez vous. Vous êtes formidables. Ne changez rien à votre système. On n'en est fan. Cordialement. JP
Merci !
How long will this one keep your interest?
With my ADHD probably not long !
Want a big screen? Look at Renault, the centre screen is bigger than an iPad and, it’s in portrait configuration!
Yes I think the desire for massive screens is not really necessary - even with my eyes ! .
So you ended up putting back the rear seats , Oh Yes , Love my Volvos But looking at a D4 . So could be coming back to Land Rover ! - Your Fault !
Having to faff about with electric seats going forward will get really blinking grating when it's peeing it down and everyone has to wait while the seats move. Why they couldn't make some sort of short cut is madness.
I did a TikTok on this - it got 6.2 Million views !
www.tiktok.com/@powerfuluk/video/7162902608879947014?lang=en
Clean black car - an oxymoron if ever there was one 😂 Nice deal though 👍
I have the 110 XS, it’s the dullest thing to look at, too much of one colour. Trading it in for a 90 X-Dynamic, I should’ve stuck with my first 90.
You make a good point there.. it probably works better in black than other colours - but like you I also feel the need to add some extra contrast - we will design some matt black graphics for this one for sure.
@@L663 Mine is silver, so there’s no contrast. But like yourself I was offered a good deal on it and money in the bank and I’ve got lucky with the 90 X-Dynamic 90 dealer already had it on order with no buyer, luckily I was still able to change the colour.
Very nice, you can't beat a powerful petrol engine 😁
Hi David - the D300 was one of the nicest Diesel engines i have driven and odly quieter than the petrol at start up - it does this crazy fast rev thing at the start on the P300 and P400 ! but yes a petrol engine is always a nice drive. Be interesting to compare the fuel economy - the P300 in the THE STIG seems you have to work it hard a lot of the time.
@@L663 I think I told you I used to have the 4.4 V8 Disco 3, I loved that car!
ps. My vote for a fun accessory fitting would be the fixed multi height tow bar. Nothing can be as bad as the winch lol!
Simon such a lover of money
You are not kidding !
@@L663 I would also take the money, but not for a petrol. The mileage of that guzzler will kill you
my opinion is a big mistake to choose p400 xs trim . XS have not BACK differential and the car is like a half car without it, you have half defender just lost half from the car. Diesel engine is more better as gas . NM for 300 diesel is powerful as P400 gas . I tried D250 and liked more as P400 so D300 must be better. Diesel have maximum torque from 1200 rpm, P400 have the maximum torque more later . In off road and city diesel engine is more responsive . XS not head up display how you said . Is a review to person which is very dissapointed in the snow how work P400 and i suppose in off road not same level with diesel . Also i think consumption much higher to P400 . I dont see any advantage for P400 comparing with D300. Really the best trim is D250-300 Xdynamic HSE you may put back differential , advanced off road pack , refrigerator , head up display and for D250 18 rims from factory; finally in such trim car is more cheaper as trim X having close same options. XS is a city trim only outside design is better .
Big Mud Flaps and a Set of Good Year Wrangler Duratecs and youll be looking about Right
I hate black cars BUT black in the XS looks way better than any of the other options of colours for the XS. The body colour bits in other colours just don’t look right to me
I had not really paid much attention to the XS but it does look nice.
So has the dealer given you £20,000 back?
They are going to.... not got the cash in the bank yet but I owe them about the same amount for parts we buy monthly so I am not worried !
Speaking of parts are you getting more of the wooden walnut “hockey sticks” as you call them back into stock?
First. Boom.
❤❤🙏🙏
Prefer the xs
Should have been a diesel
The D300 was a nice engine
70 grand and no adaptive cruise control???
Most overrated option. Silly if you rely on that.
To be fair its the only option it seems to have missing and I think I can add it with the IID tool...
@@johnguidetti5839 Actually, I have found it incredibly addictive on my DS. I used to have cruise with braking (only) on my last car, but this is the first I have owned with the acceleration system too, and after initially feeling somewhat sceptical about its virtues, extended usage on motorways has rendered me a complete convert. So much more relaxing to drive on the congested motorways we have now, and whilst always safety conscious above all else, it hasn't given me any heart attacks yet. Quite the opposite in fact! ;-)
@@L663 As an owner of the old and new Defender this kinda sums up why the old Defender owners don’t like the new Defender owners: complaining about something in a legendary expedition vehicle you’ll never need in a expedition vehicle
I hardly use the adaptive cruise control on my 110, I actually find it annoying and turn it off most of the time.
Can’t take my eyes from you..