Eloise & Penelope's friendship dynamic, Eloise befriending Cressida, and more. *Let's talk about it*
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 04. 2024
- #bridgeton
For business enquiries:
therealdeborah.o@gmail.com
Hey y'all, like I said, Bridgerton season is coming up so there is more discussions to be had, I hope you guys enjoy this quick video and I hope to get the discussion going down in the comments below.
Music used in vid: • MARY'S THEME (STELVIO ...
Follow me on my socials: / deborahtheexplorerr
My music:
distrokid.com/hyperfollow/deb... - Zábava
I really REALLY hope Eloise learns the hard way that Cressida is a more toxic gossip than LW and that her motivation is spite rather than making money or asserting her voice in a society that would silence her.
My issues with LW are so mixed because like others say, we see the reasons behind Penelope’s actions.
Also, while LW writes gossip that harms people, she is also writing the truth. Even if it weren’t for her, this would have been found out anyway.
And some scandals may take a week to get over and everyone does not care anymore.
But can see how Colin’s anger will be more justified this season than in the books where LW wasn’t as brutal.
Finally someone who understand they are both fallible and BOTH contributed to the break of their friendship. They are still good people.
100%, Pen was like Eloise's emotional support animal--necessary but completely taken for granted. Eloise loves Pen, but has always projected her own feelings and opinions on her. Eloise didn't bat an eye lying when using Pen as an alibi to meet Theo, putting Pen's reputation at stake first. She doesn't get to be mad at Pen for lying.
@@abcbandbi get Eloise being mad about what she writes, but it is no different than what she has seen before.
Her comments in the trailer to Colin have me on edge because they sound more out of anger than protection for him. It could be protecting her brother.
But “since when were you worried about Penelope?” Like girl! Dude, you weren’t the only Bridgerton friend Penelope had.
Even in the books, the other family members stepped in and helped her.
Honestly, if she did not leave balls early, she would have observed all the Colin intense stares.
Oh and she always interrupted Colin and Pen’s conversations like they were nothing. Girl!
I am done ranting. Agreed that both were in the wrong. Pen should have spoke up more and kept some things out of LW and Eloise needed to listen and not force her opinions on others.
I agree
I want both of them to have a conversation where Eloise understands that she has a privilege her whole life and loving family unlike Pen and she has not been a great friend to Penelope and penelope to acknowledge her actions towards her best friend however noblest of intentions were selfish and Eloise has every right to be upset with her. ( Still not justifies her being friends with cressida)
I did not realize Cressida bullied everyone in the books.
But regarding the show, you see this attitude with Penelope. Why make friends with your best friend’s bully. No excuses for that.
I get her making friends with anyone else. Just not her.
I am not sure the Queen, who told Eloise in as many words, "You (Whistledown) write what I dictate you to write or I will crush you and your family into dust" can be said to "reveer" Whistledown. She is entertained by her, vexed by her, and very much wants the power Whistledown wields for herself. And if she's comfortable enough to threaten to do that to a Viscount's family, she'll hesitate even less to do it to the much less socially and financially secure Featheringtons.
So, no, I don't believe Penelope throwing herself on the sword Eloise recklessly unsheathed when she went on her trips to the cheapside (while not even making a token effort to hide that she is a peer and inviting all sorts of interest into what she's doing there) is the solution that would have ended in happiness and rainbows for Penelope.
She is also protecting herself while digging Eloise out of the hole her friend burried herself in, and she has reason to.
And again, with how Eloise went about it, sooner or later it would have come out anyway. Penelope was caught by Delacrois despite having an elaborate system involving costumes and an accent. And whoever ultimately found out about Eloise and talked about it probably wouldn't have phrased it in the (slightly less ruinous) "she met unchaperoned to radical political meetings" and went with what is more true and unrecoverable from. Which is "she went unchaperoned and met a young man".
Eloise made a mess with no way out of ot that WOULDN'T suck, and I do think Penelope chose the one that sucked the least, all things considered.
Absolutely!!! Plus, at least Eloise is a Bridgerton and one of her sisters is also a duchess. She and especially her family were likely to quickly recover socially from what LW wrote, compared to Penelope and her family, who would all be swiftly ruined if the Queen found out and so wanted.
And for Eloise too, Pen's strategy is more beneficial than to keep having the Queen threatening her thinking she's LW.
I would've preferred it if Pen had told Eloise she's LW and they had brainstormed a solution together.
That being said I think the best solution was what Pen did... but it did blindside Eloise. At least Pen was aware and struggled a lot making the decision to publish that.
And to be honest, Eloise likely wouldn't have taken Pen's familial, financial and social situation into account if she had been involved in said brainstorming.
In any case, Eloise and Pen do have sweet moments and I hope to see their friendship mended and stronger than ever soon.
Eloise is like second-wave feminism - she’s wealthy and pretty and protected by a powerful family, so she doesn’t need to think too deeply about the lack of intersectionality in her ideals. She’s not fighting for women’s suffrage or better working conditions for lower-class women, she’s only mad she is expected to be “ladylike” in public without picking apart why she feels the injustice of it. Even after the Bridgerton housekeeper calls her out on her bullshit after Eloise accuses her of being Lady Whistledown, she doesn’t stop to think, “huh, servants are people too.”
I agree
Eloise is the epitome of White privileged feminism. She’s basically a nowadays nepobaby or generational wealth child. She’s been privileged all her life.
I’m sorry but I’m not sure that I follow. I don’t mean to be a bluestocking here but: Second wave feminism was the wave of feminism that created no-fault divorce, the ability for women to hold a credit card in their own name, the ability to hold a bank account in order to pay a bill, or challenge your husband for custody, or accuse him of rape -
Are you saying those are rights that only benefit wealthy pretty women?
It’s the RBG and Audre Lorde and bell hooks era of feminism, and many of those women held their beliefs at great personal cost and by working outside of the established system.
Perhaps you’re thinking of first wave feminism? That was a bit more centralized in the British upper crust (as in, the suffragists)?
In that case, you’d be correct! After all, when Eloise is being called a radical, that’s what they mean: that she’s an advocate for emancipation and class equality.
Both are definitely partially at fault - but I feel like Penelope did the best that she could. Eloise is very privileged with her family both financially and socially, and she doesn’t realize it’s not the same for Pen. We see in the show how careless Eloise is while trying to find out who LW is. She just goes around, clearly visible as a member of the ton, and attracts notice from the queen, which as we see is SO dangerous. If Pen told Eloise about being LW earlier, who knows how Eloise would have handled it? I believe E would have wanted to use LWs platform politically, which Pen wouldn’t have wanted. E wouldn’t have understood that this was Pens way of using her status as a wallflower to be heard, her way of having agency and doing something only she could do. Sooner or later, E would have let something slip, and Pen isn’t protected the same way E is (which we see isn’t even enough!). I also understand that even without that very real risk, this is the one single thing that Pen had for herself, where she was in control. I get why Eloise was hurt, and why she doesn’t unterstand Pens side - it’s just a repeat of how Eloise always thinks. And I believe Pen tried to help E with writing about her, bc then at least the queen didn’t think E is LW anymore. To me, Eloise befriending Cressida who tormented Pen for years is petty and dangerous. I think Cressida is gonna learn that Pen is LW from that „friendship“ and use that knowledge to try and extort money from Pen, just like she did in the books. Just the lead up to that is going to differ. I really hope they’re gonna repair their friendship but what we see in the trailer doesn’t make me hopeful that it’s gonna be soon.
I’m very excited to see how they deal with the time line as well! They’re probably going to show Francesca’s first marriage and make Polin happen way earlier - or even have Pen marry that new Lord first. I kinda hope they make Colin less aggressive than in the book tho, and more genuinely contrite for him always dismissing Pen!
Yes penelope could have confessed to the Queen that she was whistledown and she did think about it but as she said herself the queen wouldn't believe her and would just think that she was covering for her friend which could only make things worse as queen charlotte would see that as confirmation that eloise was lady w,because nobody believed that penelope could be that clever, people always underestimated her.
Yes you are right many people have underestimated her including her family
I will try to not to make this too long.
I always knew Penelope was reserved, but I did not realize how much it was because of her family. It is interesting seeing not only does her mother diminish her, but Prudence. May need a rewatch, but so far, I have not seen Phillipa do something mean. She is just existing, at least from show standards.
It is also interesting how Penelope can only stand up in situations where she is either protecting herself or someone else like with Marina and now she is standing up to Colin.
When it comes to Eloise, I wondered if Penelope could get a word in sometimes, and when she said “you shouldn’t be interested in marriage”, I get Penelope’s response was harsh, but I hated how Eloise just expected Penelope to share the same views as her.
I did not like Eloise in season 2 because of how selfish she was. She was wishy washy too. She went from loving LW to just hating her for almost no reason. I actually respected Penelope for writing things her best friend wanted her to. It does show Penelope’s care for her. Their fight actually shows some truth of how they felt. Eloise is in a position where she does not know how to walk the walk. Penelope is in a position where she doesn’t have much to lose so she can risk everything for her career. So it makes sense for Eloise to be a little jealous. I disapproved of some of her anger because of the fact she never tried to listen to Penelope when she speaks.
Again, sorry this was so long. You brought up a lot of talking points.
For all Eloise's idealism, she is extremely sheltered and quite coddled by her family. If Eloise didn't get married, well it wouldn't be the end of the world as she has siblings who are extremely well connected and wealthy. Penelope on the other hand MUST get married. If she didn't, then she would be considered a burden on her family in their society, no matter what she did. Eloise doesn't see this because she will never have to deal with that
I dont know what i love more, the analysis in this video or the analysis in the comment section. I love how everyone is disecting their friendship without bias. Usually when it come to talking about Penelope and Eloise, you can always tell that one is favored over another.
I think it says a lot about how you are raised because if you were raised privilege you probably would understand Eloise. If you grew up middle class or below you probably understand Penelope. It says a lot about our society and how even today we judge each other without seeing both sides.
I can understand on both sides of Eloise and Penelope. I can understand that Eloise doesn't want to follow the society rules of being married, being independent and wanting to do something, I understand how hurt she found out that Penelope was Lady Whistledown. But I can understand Penelope, her family is basically the joke in society, she writes as Lady Whistledown to earn enough money and also gives a joy to her life especially how society treats her. I think Eloise is fortunate, she has a family who cares and her siblings are there to help her or protect her. But Penelope rely on her wits to keep moving forward. Penelope has dreams and ambitions that she wants to voice it, but Eloise's voice is louder. I also think Eloise is bit jealous of Penelope, not being Lady Whistledown, despite being Lady Whistledown, Penelope has achieved on doing something about it instead of just talking.
I think Claudia Jessie is brilliant as Eloise. She manages to be relatable, comic, and infuriating all at the same time. I root for her and want to shake her. And as with most characters in Bridgerton, I can’t imagine any other actor in the role.
This may be a hot take, but I really like Eloises friendship with Cressida. They're so different, and they help each other grow. Their friendship feels like such an absurd thing, but it ends up working!
Finally, someone who got it right!! I have seen people miss this and agree with you🥰 thank you!!! ❤❤
It’s both their fault. I think they both need a break
Eloise befriending Cressida is malicious bc she knows that she bullied Penelope even before they entered society to compete in the marriage mart. Your friends don't own you. Your friends may not all get along with each other. But choosing a friendship with someone you previously reviled, for the express purpose of hurting a friend or former friend is despicable. She has of her own assessment found Cressida Loathsome and mean. Eloise is blunt, and immature, and more prominent in family and beauty. Her ego was bruised by Penelope being Whistledown, for keeping the secret, and meddling in her family. She only wanted the friendship when she had the upper hand and when Penelope was supporting her. And never particularly focused on the Featheringtons precarious situations alongside the Bridgertons. Nor that Whistledown never spared the Featheringtons.
I am just a simple girl who adores Penelope. I know she did some awful things, but the dire situation they were in. It took drastic measures to fix the Queen wanting her head.
I just saw the first part of season 3 and I am going to play devil's advocate for a little while because perhaps we all misjudged this friendship between Eloise and Cressida perhaps this relationship is good for them both to develop as characters, another worrying thing I noticed is Cressida she is being abused mainly emotionally but it is clear she comes from an abusive household by modern time standard.
Moreover cressida seems to be learning and changing due to Eloise this can mainly be scene which after
Her parents threatened her with an arranged marriage if she doesn't cease her friendship with Eloise she still talks to her
Cressida's mean girl attitude comes from her family's influence someone remove this girl out of her parent's clutches, and show her true happiness and the right way to befriend people.
I love your hair, my baby sister loves doing it that way too.
To be honest, in the first season they don't seem to be that close. They don't share many insterests besides being "wannabe spinsters", since Pen is obsessed by the ton dinamycs and gossips and Eloise pretty much despises that artificial facade and the hole process of showing off ladies like merch for "good weedings". Pen also doesn't talk much about her own feelings and pretty much hides what she feels for Colin from everyone except Marina. Only when confronted with the truth about how Colin looks at her as a "little sister" and decides to destroy Marina's reputation with Lady Whistledown she goes crying to Eloise (and EVEN THEN she does not talk about her feelings!)
Unrelated, but: 1. This is the first time I've heard an English speaker who pronounces that name ("Deborah") closer to the Hebrew pronunciation. Cool!
2. Obsessed with how pretty your hair looks. It's such a nice hairstyle. There should be paintings in galleries of someone this pretty. (Your video was good, I just have nothing to add to the Bridgerton discourse.)
In my opinion, Francesca is better than Eloise in every way, shape, and form. (No hate.)
In my opinion, I think that Lady Danbury is going to take Penelope under her wing and show her how to be a flower, not a wildflower, no more. (No hate.)
As much as I love E+P friendship and support and humor, but E also ignored what pen said (as loved LW, and was more honest with Cressida) so learned nothing of her OWN privelege or empathy, and needed the time alone. Pen had to hit rock bottom to rally to change in ways others could see, and needed to have time without E interrupt. P said awful things as LW, but all with the bridgertons and herself were done as needed for the best in the long run, so I really am not on E's side in this fight at all. Of course, I have been the Pen listening (yet E style protecting) in many cases, though no LW- and have been dumped many times simply for being unwilling to join in lies. I do not think pen could believeeven the concept that the queen would believe someone like her was LW even if she DID say anything (she SAID it would be considered just to protect E).
I feel like Penelope and Eloise’s are more like there mimes than the rest of there siblings
I know this is unpopular of me and I did not read the books, but I don’t like Eloise’s character very much. She is not exactly a “pick me”, but she seems to look down on other women and judges then inferior to her. She comes from a rich, tolerant family, not everyone has the choice to be idealistic about everything.
I honestly only fear that the Rake rumors ar true. Like I get what ther going at: Colin Trying to be more like Benedict and Anthony.
Still.....I Would have writen it a Bit Diferent. Let him have a Fling on his travels wil a Women who on the surface is simulare to Penelope on his Travels.
Have him even flirt when he comes back but do not have him go the bdms way😂. That fells so unnecesary and to on the nose.
I knew this show wants to be Spicy but we can have the bdms scenes with Benedict of you realy need them and have Colin just be shy and say No when he is offerd and go home wher he gets a Spycy Polin Dream.
Mayby he could then try to courd the lady from the trailer whos handhe kissed to force himself to see pen as only a Close Friend.
That fails ofcours and as he also spends time with Pen for the Lessons ...... i have no idea wher im going her i would need a few weeks to organize this abd plan and eddit the plan and so on but in theend they would be character devolepment for all they step into the light and we would have spicy scenes too to make Netflix and Shonda Happy.😂
I just personly see the sex scebes symbolicly but also need them to make sense and dont want to just use them.
If they had one meaning like Darkness in kingdom hearts beeing simbolism for Selfishness then fi e use sex in like every second scene but if the simbolism ofit changes between seasons use it when needed not for Shock.
Sorry
Anyway Cant wait for polin to be together so future seaso s can see them be happy and Cute and as Lady and Lord Whisteldown i hope
Idk. I agree mostly, but I think we are missing some key points about Penelope. She’s not as helpless as this video would make it seem.
When I think of how she impulsively hurt Colin in season 3 with her write up about him simply because “he didn’t return her feelings”. He doesn’t owe her liking her back just because she had a crush on him. It’s like she didn’t learn anything from how she hurt Eloise! It’s like she hurts or lashes out this way when she doesn’t get her way.
One thing we know is Eloise may be lost in her own world but she had an undying loyalty and devotion to Penelope. When Pen lost her dad, Eloise was there to comfort her. We undermine the pain and betrayal Eloise would’ve felt from what Pen did. I respected Eloise’s loyalty even more when she confided in Cressida about Colin and Pen and it got out - when Colin was blaming and yelling at her, she didn’t lash out to say why she was mad at Pen even though Colin would understand and even maybe join her in cutting off Pen. She swallowed the blame, if the roles were reversed I have no doubts that Pen would have ratted her out.
Pen is self centered in the way she doesn’t understand the gravity of her betrayal. Pen moved on so quickly and we don’t see her struggle with the thought of doing something so huge against someone you love and loves you. She gets away with destroying people so she never has to deal with the consequences. Eloise isn’t pissed, she is hurt and it’s painful to hear reviews that gaslight her pain.
Pen is self righteous and if she understood the degree of hurt and damage she has caused to others including her best and most loyal friend, she would know she has no grounds to feels like she can chastise her for that. At least Cressida didn’t betray her and ruin her. In fact Cressida was kind to her when no one else would because Pen ruined her and her family’s reputation.
I remember when Pen yelled at Eloise - not everyone can be a pretty Bridgerton. Made me wonder if somewhere behind all this Pen is actually jealous of Eloise. She missed that Eloise was feeling like a disappointment because she was wrapped up in her feeling like Eloise had what she wanted (a name and beauty). And when Eloise learned that Pen enjoyed being a part of society, she didn’t shame or judge her. She accepted her. Eloise may have been initially clueless but she is a good friend! Pen sadly is nice and warm but I can’t say I trust her intentions and loyalty.
Penelope is a complex character. I like her but she is a lot like her mother and needs to be confronted by the consequences of her careless and selfish actions.
I really like how you looked at both sides and the way you criticized them but also thought of reason as to why they would act the way they did!
I really like Penelope as a character (so I'm a bit biased) but I think Penelope must have panicked to some degree and that that influenced her decision making. As other comments have mentioned, the Queen is quite a threat to Penelope and if she dares threaten Eloise like that (considering her family's status) Peneople wouldn't stand a chance.
As I said, I think Peneople panicked because of this but also because she worried about Eloise and her Family.
Of course, as mentioned in the books, LW is her life's work and she would want anyone to take that from her (which I completely understand), she would do everything to ensure that no one would believe that Eloise was LW and she did. She wasn't nice about it but I like to imagine that she might have been angered by Eloise trying to take the one thing from her that gave her a voice to speak within society.
I'm not sure that I wouldn't have done the same if I was in her position... I do hope they can fix their friendship by admitting their faults and working on improving their friendship. They are fun to watch and have an interesting dynamic. It would also be a good chance for them both to mature.
In the book, Penelope immediately says she never asked Colin to marry her. She was not silent like on the show.
We are not on the same wavelength. Eloise has tried to get Penelope to talk to her, but Penelope changes the subject. Penelope never shared with Eloise. Eloise shared with her (which is what friends do). Eloise is outspoken but in many ways not outgoing. She suffers anxiety and even a panic attack. People criticize Eloise for not doing anything and for being reckless by doing things. Pretty contradictory, yes?
Penelope was not protecting Eloise. She was protecting herself. I can't even stand her at this point, and I don't want Eloise (who is not all talk and no action -- an utter lie) to risk herself by letting Penelope in again. Penelope would have to do a lot of work for that, and I'm not sure the show isn't just going to have them get together again without her doing that. Cressida has bullied people to their faces; Penelope has bullied people through an anonymous blog. The showrunner has said that Cressida was the only younger member of the ton to be kind to Eloise after her appearance in Whistledown. It just amazes me that people stan Penelope in the show. (The books are a different matter as Lady Whistledown wasn't so heinous in the books.)
And let's not forget what Penelope did to Marina or how she called Kate "a prickly beast" without ever meeting her.
Though I understand what you're saying in some ways I can't help but agree but I feel as if you're letting the gossip part of Lady whistledown cloud your judgment of Penelope's character.
All but two of Penelope's stories in Lady Whistledown were spoken by other people all she does is use her own words and put it in one place ( and even with those two stories Marina and Eloise secrets would have came out I believe because of how we saw how the help gossip pipeline works in season 1).
Eloise IS selfish and her friendship with Penelope not the entire time but she IS selfish. She is not as considerate of Penelope because Penelope actually pays attention to Eloise and per Eloise words she didn't really pay attention to Pen( Penelope isn't even the only character she does this to think the footman, the maid, and Theo all people with lower social standings than her and who she basically refuses to think about outside to the grand scheme of what's going on with her) . When something happens to Eloise ,Penelope finds out fairly quickly than if the opposite happens. Eloise doesn't take action she's just mildly loud and averse to some things that goes on in her Society (even the thought she feels as she doesn't want to write her own column or anything she wants to find Lady Whistledown to talk to her and try to get her to write about it) watching the show more often than not she comes off just as bad as this Society she's judging because you can tell she only want things to change in reference to her not entirely and this is why she's so comfortable with just talking
Marina was viper trying to swindle Colin into taking care of her kid.
Pen wrote about Eloise to save her from the Queen. If she hadn’t have done what she did, Eloise would have been imprisoned for supposedly being LW and her attack on the Bridgertons would be ten times worse than anything Lady Whistledown wrote. What Pen did was absolutely a betrayal but she had little options. And she couldn’t tell Eloise either because she has a big mouth and is so sloppy at being stealthy. Better to lose your reputation temporarily than to lose your head.
@@garlantyrell6368Pen did it to save herself.
@@RealVincent1989 No she didn’t. It was to stop Queen Charlotte from throwing El into a cell.