VHS and Video8 may not have enough details in the luma signal compared to S-VHS and Hi8 but using S-Video will still yield slightly better results compared to composite route due to the fact that Y and C stay separate over S-Video when processing the RF signal from a VHS or V8 tape, which helps preventing luma to chroma interference commonly known as dot crawl, reduces chroma noise and bleed, preserves original bandwidth for both luma and chroma since they are carried in two separate channels (Y-C) instead of one (CVBS). I'm not suggesting that VHS/V8 can magically become S-VHS/Hi8 over S-Video, I'm just saying that using composite introduces new artifacts despite the tapes are of a low quality to begin with. Anyone can test this by using a monitor fed both S-Video and composite from the same regular tape and switch between the two inputs back and forth and see for yourself. It is not a big difference but it's there if the tapes are important to you.
No it actually won't. The information that causes the dot crawl is not there. Can't have interference between the 2 signals. If you set up your equipment correctly they are exactly the same. My capture box, yes it is an external box I have, has every type of input you can imagine. It has composite, S-Video, Component, RGB and even HDMI. Each input is individually calibrated. I use the NTSC broadcast standard 7.5IRE on the black level setup. When I have captured VHS tapes I have captured the same tape with composite and S video and run a split screen to try to spot the differences and they are dead on exactly the same. Now capturing an Hi8 or DV tape yes there are noticeable differences when recording the multi burst test pattern. VHS, 8mm and 3/4" Umatic just do not have the bandwidth to show any difference. Many consumer capture cards I have tested have the Svideo calibrated to 0ire whereas the composite is calibrated 7.5. On this the s video looks slightly different as the contrast is higher. Incidentally digital video uses 0ire as the black level reference, but analog gear uses 7.5. So sure if you are comparing a 7.5 black level with 0 then you will see a slight change. Capturing a source that has a 7.5 reference at 0 isn't improving the picture though, all you are doing is crushing the blacks. FYI my formal training was at BCIT broadcast school, that is what I trained for, broadcast TV and production.
@@12voltvids Not just NTSC, I've seen the difference in PAL too which doesn't have the 7.5 requirement, but I guess some of the capture cards have very good comb filter on them so they are capable of producing similar results to a Y-C socket, combined with some S-VHS VCRs that have excellent CVBS out, But generally speaking, consumer cheap capture cards with mediocre comb filters and low end regular composite VCRs are not the way for a good video capture.
I think it is probable that lots chalk up S-Video to having better quality (even on source that cannot provide that full standard) is because their ingest circuitry on whatever hardware is being used is superior itself compared to the lesser formats. Thanks for the explanation. I knew lots of it of course, but I always learn somethin'. heh
Svhs recordings take a separate path to standard recordings. This is because a different demodulator is used and different chroma processing. Check out some of my earlier videos where the svhs circuits have failed. The machine plays regular tapes perfectly. Once I repaired the failed module svhs plays fine. So someone paying a premium for an svhs deck thinking it will improve their standard recordings is just being separated from their cash because the standard recordings go through the standard video circuits and it is separated into Y/C by the same comb filter that separates a composite video signal to record on a super vhs tape. If you know, you know as the saying goes. I try to explain this and those that don't know blow me off. If a regular tape appears "better" over an svideo cable its because the comb filter that separated the luma and chroma is not correctly calibrated and the luminance is a little hot making the image appear brighter. I have a panasonic laserdisk and it has svideo connector. The svideo output is brighter and has lower chroma. Is this correct? No, its the way they calibrated because an enhanced contrast draws the eye to it. The 3d comb filter in dvd recorders and high end tvs is far superior to what was in svhs decks. I only use a svhs deck and svideo cable for super vhs and hi8 tapes. Everything else I use composite as my capture device has a much better decoder in it than a svhs deck outputting over svideo. I use a regular vhs for regular tapes so I don't run up excessive hours on it. Keep it for svhs tapes.
@@12voltvids Thanks for the explanation. Cool! Back in the day, I would inverse telecine when creating music videos ripped from tv with CDAudio applied instead, as the soundtrack. Thing is, I would do this by hand for each frame lots of times. There was an auto setting which was 98% perfect or so, but the manual processing way really and I mean really made the video extremely high quality at low file sizes for the given standard of the time. It gave it a look and smoothness, especially in pans, too. The real real trick along with this process was to also set the sharpen edge filter to maximum 127 Horizontal and -127 Vertical. Along with Neat video noise processing, it doesn't get any better for analog tv rips - of course, a better capture card is going to make the starting point better. I am talking the processing stage. heh - Thanks again! It's interesting, for real.
What do you think about people who tap into the video head signal and process and digitize the signal directly? (VHS-decode) It's said they get a better picture that way. The decoding is all done digitally instead of using the player's analog electronics. Is there anything in the playback of VHS machines that would limit the picture quality?
@@12voltvids Thanks, but what I wanted to know is if you thought the results would be an improvement over just doing a video capture of the video out (or S-out as the case may be).
Never tried it. Its not done in real time. You have to capture the rf and then extract and convert video. Since I do this commercially that would result in computer time required that people are not willing to pay for. All my tapes look great as do all the ones I do for clients. Never have see any done that way so I couldn't say if they are improved or not. Since the way I do it delivers results identical to playing the tape I can't see them being better unless lots of processing is applied and there js only so much there. I have heard people claim they can upscale vhs to 4k. Sure they can and I have open front property in Vegas. You can't get something from nothing. Processors can try to guess what they think might be between lines but if it isn't there it isn't there.
Sooo wish I can get hold of working SVHS machine...but quick question. I have a TRV-340 dig8 (play back 8 and hi8) camera to do capturing. Will there be any difference when I capture via s-video in stead of firewire.?
Firewire is a digital connection digitized at 720x480 4:1:1 colorspace. S video is analog output. 4:1:1 colorspace is still higher resolution than analog so the firewire will give you the best quality at 25mbits avi type file structure.
@@12voltvids This is not correct. Consumer analog video has a digital equivalency near 4:2:2, while NTSC DV was heavily compressed down to 4:1:1 in order to function on Pentium II computer from the mid 1990s. DV is an ancient format in the digital realm. PAL DV is 4:2:0, like DVD-Video, though a different axis. .
If you are capturing into lossless AVI 4:2:2 out of S-Video than S-Video method would be far superior than the compressed DV @ 4:1:1 for NTSC or 4:2:0 PAL.
My friend keeps nagging me to replace my 60" Panasonic plasma I bought in 2013 with an OLED, but I like my plasma and think it would be a waste to get rid of it.
I'm still watching my 63" Samsung plasma. Has a great picture. Won't replace it till it blows up. Have had it 15 years now and only fixed it once. Buffer connectors and loose grounds about 4 years ago. Took 3 of us to take it down and put it back up on the wall.
When they built them they knew they didn't have to work on them so they didn't care how much disassembly was needed!!! And they didn't care when they installed those awful modules with the much hated glass board and smd capacitors.
The glass modules were used because they were cheap to make. Just paint the resistors on. Planned obsolescence. Why do you think I have such a hate on for any of the AG (Absolute garbage) industrial crap.
@@12voltvids *THAT* is the reason? I figured it would have some kind of special property that would make this a better candidate (though have no idea what that would be). I have a sony WM-D6 that was not cheap at all that has a speed regulator on one such module and of course it has a shot component on it. I can't believe they'd just do that on such an expensive machine.
@@12voltvids I'm not so sure about that. I just sold a dual well Onkyo deck for $120 US. I'm guessing the extra shipping cost in Canada is killing it for you. I don't buy from Canada being in the US due to expensive shipping.
Laserdisk is a composite format of high enough resolution that crosstalk is present. As the signal is composite no need for svideo. It won't do a dam thing. Same with all composite formats. Vhs betamax 8mm umatic 1" quad laserdisk and ced disk. Svhs, hi8, ed beta, betacam, dv and DVD are all conponent formats. In other words the color is recorded separate from the luminance. Svhs, ed beta and hi8 are color under systems. Betacam, DVD and dv are true component formats.
@@12voltvids VHS and 8mm-based Sony formats are not composite. Those are Y/C formats. Laserdisc is specifically a composite format, and is unusual for this fact.
@lordsmurf the front end of these machines the video is composite. It doesn't matter anyway because neither can record more then 250 lines. The crosstalk can't occur until the luminance frequency approaches the color subcarrier frequency. That is between 330 and 350 lines of resolution. Since vhs and 8mm do not have the bandwidth for the interference to occur there can't be any interference. As so speculation that svideo will provide cleaner video capturing vhs or 8mm video using the same capture hardware, prove it.. off a true component format such as betacam sp or dv for sure it will but not on any color under hetrodyne color system as the color is not stable enough. On a svhs or hi8 tape the color is still unstable due to the conversion down and back up and the very limited chroma bandwidth, but because the luminance has enough bandwidth to interfere with the color sub carrier the svideo connection is a must. For regular vhs and 8mm nope. I have very high end equipment here and regular vhs and 8mm look the same regardless if captured over composite or svideo
@@12voltvids There is no "front end". The data recorded to the tape is in Y/C format, where the luma/Y is separate from the chroma/CrCb. The VCR extracts the Y/C, and then composites Y+C (smashes it together in a single carrier). That's how VCRs function. ----- In the analog domain, VHS is "240 lines" (horizontal measurement), while S-VHS is "400 lines". Note that "lines" are not resolutions. The vertical is fixed for all NTSC formats (and PAL too). In the digital equivalency domain,, VHS is about 250-350 (factors determine it), while S-VHS is about 300-500 (again, factors). Don't confuse "resolution" (the palette) with actual detail/resolve. ----- Cleanliness of the signal is mostly determined by timing correction (TBCs) and NR. Or lack thereof. Color-under recording really does not determine output quality of a VCR. ----- On S-VHS and Hi8, there is no such conversion down (then back up) of the chroma. Now, it is equivalent to 4:2:2(ish), so the chroma is a bit less than half the luma. But that's not at all the same as a "down/up" of any kind. ----- I don't know what sort of "high end" equipment you have, but it's either (1) not actually high end/quality, or (2) not functioning properly, if you're getting such poor performance that it looks "the same" as any generic low-end consumer VCR. I know you've had fits of anger regarding AG-1980P decks (as those are NOT easy to fix), but it's almost impossible to surpass the quality of the output. Same for certain JVCs, including some oddball Japanese models that are impossible to repair now (no parts available). ---- I know you have some nice videos showing repairs of junker VHS VCRs, but I don't think you fully grasp concepts like S-VHS, TBCs, and the sort. Even a cursory browse of Wikipedia shows some of your statement on this video to be very false. Perhaps read "VCR Troubleshooting & Repair" by Capelo, brush up on your knowledge.
Go and look at any 8mm or VHS camcorder. You will clearly see the video leaving the camera section and entering the VCR section is composite. Goes into the recorder section at exactly the same place that you can "input" external video and is extracted back to Y/C in the video process chip of the recorder section. Lots of amateur publications put out by people that don't know. Remember I was a sony trained factory service tech, I took the Sony engineering courses on camcorders and probably still have some of the training books burred away. Only the Hi8 models kept the lumanence and chroma seperate. On the others the signals are already mixed. and then seperated again when down converted. You are confusing fixed count pixels with lines of resolution. All NTSC has 480 active lines per frame split into 2 fields of 262.5 lines per field. This is the vertcal resolution that all NTSC video has. Horizontal resolution is how many black white transitions can occur in 1 line. On your fixed count that would be 720 pixels as DVD and DV used as their fixed count which translates roughly into 360 equally spaced black and white dots. As 360 white + 360 black would equal 720 total lines. VHS and 8mm can only resolve about 240 tv lines, but it gets blurry because analog TV does not use pixels its analog. The reason the chroma is seperated in the first place is because there is not the bandwidth required to record the full color signal in place as is done on 1", Quad and Laserdisc. The color signal on NTSC has about 1.2Mhz of bandwidth for each the red and blue components. It is located on a 3.579545693 mhz sub carrier and added to the video signal. Black and white TV just display the normal video signal. Color TV use a "tuner" to extract this 3.57MHz subcarrier. The acrrier is suppressed when the signal is added as a double sideband quaduature signal. The carrier is re-generated and inserted so the now 2 AM signals that are 90' out of phase with each other can be demodulated. This is far too high in frequency to be recorded directly on low bandwidth VCR so the chroma is mixed with another carrier to convert the frequency down to 629khz for vhs, 688 for betamax and Umatic and 733 for 8mm. This down converted color is reccorded to tape. Because the frequency is now lower the bandwidth is also restricted. There is no room for 1.2mhz bandwidth. The center of the carrier is 629Khz therefore the color is limited to just under .5MHz max. So you are getting about 1/3 of the original color bandwidth or about 40 lines of color resolution. On playback the color is by means of mixing converted back to 3.579545 mhz. It is then mixed back into the video signal and sent to composite output. In the case of Svideo it is sent down a separate wire, When the signal is mixed there will be interference created is the frequency of the lumanence video signal gets into that 3.579545 region. This occurs between 300 and 320 lines of resolutuion as the video signal gets into the chroma range. Now, remember SVHS and Hi8 can record to 400 lines it is therefore possible for the lumanence signal to get into the chroma. NTSC video goes out to 4.2Mhz whish is about 330 lines (its limited there because the sound was transmitted 4.5MHz above the picture carrier but that is broadcast, different animal) So as you can see since VHS and 8mm do not get anywhere near that 300 equivalent lines of resolution the bandwidth does not even get close to 3.579545 mhz. Vhs lumanence bandwidth falls off under 3mhz therefore there is no possibility of the lumanence causing interference. SHVS and Hi8 on the other hand can record well over 5mhz of lumanence bandwidth and therefore are well into that 3.579545 (for NTSC, 4.43Mhz for PAL) frequency space and interference will occur if the signals are mixed. Hi8 and SVHS cameras keep the signals separate from the camera head. Yes the SVHS and Hi8 cameras had a totally different camera or "front end" than the the camera used on standard cameras. The standard ones had a lower resolution chip too, which didn't generate the bandwidth to have the crosstalk problem to begin with. Do you really think the camera manufactures would spend extra money to keep Y/C signals separate if there was no benefit? No, and they didn't. This argument has been going on for 40 years. An SVHS deck has additional circuitry for sure for SVHS tapes but the standard tapes are played back using the conventional circuitry. Yes the chroma is output over Y/C as well as composite but due to no interference between the 2 signals being possible there is no advantage. Now saying that, many TV manufactures especially in the late 80s and 90's calibrated the Svideo input to a slightly higher video level so that the picture appeared brighter to the viewer. This was a sales gimic, that amounted to nothing more than turning the contrast up slightly on that input so the tv would stand out on a row of TVs. The eye is drawn to the brighter more vivid picture. Playing a svhs, hi8, dvd or dv source definately makes a difference but not for VHS or 8mm. Not possible because the information isn't there.
Can you tell me what the problem is with my camera, when ever I record something I can’t go back and watch it, no matter how long I record there is no play back when I go to play and edit, it’s like it deletes after I stop recording, not sure if it’s a setting thing, or if the camera is messed up.
Yes the junk video co supplied the svhs module to many other companies like Mitsubishi and those modules all had leaky surface electrolytic caps. Sony built their own. That's why I like the Sony decks because they didn't use jvc modules which have all failed by this point.
@@12voltvids You keep repeating "svhs module", but that's not a thing. It reminds me of Chumlee from Pawn Stars, in an episode where he talked about cars having a "modulator".
Nobody uses VCRs here. People however do have old tapes that they want to digitize. That is who buys old VCRs and fixes them. There may be a few collectors that use them just for fun and to play around with but most don't. We actually had hard drive based PVRs here before most of the world. I had a hard drive based PVR in 1996.
VHS and Video8 may not have enough details in the luma signal compared to S-VHS and Hi8 but using S-Video will still yield slightly better results compared to composite route due to the fact that Y and C stay separate over S-Video when processing the RF signal from a VHS or V8 tape, which helps preventing luma to chroma interference commonly known as dot crawl, reduces chroma noise and bleed, preserves original bandwidth for both luma and chroma since they are carried in two separate channels (Y-C) instead of one (CVBS). I'm not suggesting that VHS/V8 can magically become S-VHS/Hi8 over S-Video, I'm just saying that using composite introduces new artifacts despite the tapes are of a low quality to begin with. Anyone can test this by using a monitor fed both S-Video and composite from the same regular tape and switch between the two inputs back and forth and see for yourself. It is not a big difference but it's there if the tapes are important to you.
No it actually won't. The information that causes the dot crawl is not there. Can't have interference between the 2 signals. If you set up your equipment correctly they are exactly the same. My capture box, yes it is an external box I have, has every type of input you can imagine. It has composite, S-Video, Component, RGB and even HDMI. Each input is individually calibrated. I use the NTSC broadcast standard 7.5IRE on the black level setup.
When I have captured VHS tapes I have captured the same tape with composite and S video and run a split screen to try to spot the differences and they are dead on exactly the same. Now capturing an Hi8 or DV tape yes there are noticeable differences when recording the multi burst test pattern.
VHS, 8mm and 3/4" Umatic just do not have the bandwidth to show any difference. Many consumer capture cards I have tested have the Svideo calibrated to 0ire whereas the composite is calibrated 7.5. On this the s video looks slightly different as the contrast is higher. Incidentally digital video uses 0ire as the black level reference, but analog gear uses 7.5.
So sure if you are comparing a 7.5 black level with 0 then you will see a slight change. Capturing a source that has a 7.5 reference at 0 isn't improving the picture though, all you are doing is crushing the blacks.
FYI my formal training was at BCIT broadcast school, that is what I trained for, broadcast TV and production.
@@12voltvids Not just NTSC, I've seen the difference in PAL too which doesn't have the 7.5 requirement, but I guess some of the capture cards have very good comb filter on them so they are capable of producing similar results to a Y-C socket, combined with some S-VHS VCRs that have excellent CVBS out, But generally speaking, consumer cheap capture cards with mediocre comb filters and low end regular composite VCRs are not the way for a good video capture.
I have replaced parts on some ceramic circuit boards but its a very delicate operation.. good work on the repair.
I think it is probable that lots chalk up S-Video to having better quality (even on source that cannot provide that full standard) is because their ingest circuitry on whatever hardware is being used is superior itself compared to the lesser formats. Thanks for the explanation. I knew lots of it of course, but I always learn somethin'. heh
Svhs recordings take a separate path to standard recordings. This is because a different demodulator is used and different chroma processing. Check out some of my earlier videos where the svhs circuits have failed. The machine plays regular tapes perfectly. Once I repaired the failed module svhs plays fine. So someone paying a premium for an svhs deck thinking it will improve their standard recordings is just being separated from their cash because the standard recordings go through the standard video circuits and it is separated into Y/C by the same comb filter that separates a composite video signal to record on a super vhs tape.
If you know, you know as the saying goes. I try to explain this and those that don't know blow me off. If a regular tape appears "better" over an svideo cable its because the comb filter that separated the luma and chroma is not correctly calibrated and the luminance is a little hot making the image appear brighter. I have a panasonic laserdisk and it has svideo connector. The svideo output is brighter and has lower chroma. Is this correct? No, its the way they calibrated because an enhanced contrast draws the eye to it. The 3d comb filter in dvd recorders and high end tvs is far superior to what was in svhs decks. I only use a svhs deck and svideo cable for super vhs and hi8 tapes. Everything else I use composite as my capture device has a much better decoder in it than a svhs deck outputting over svideo. I use a regular vhs for regular tapes so I don't run up excessive hours on it. Keep it for svhs tapes.
@@12voltvids None of that is correct. You're confusing the FM signal with the YCrCb signal data. It comes across as technobabble.
@@12voltvids Thanks for the explanation. Cool! Back in the day, I would inverse telecine when creating music videos
ripped from tv with CDAudio applied instead, as the soundtrack. Thing is, I would do this by hand for each frame lots of times. There was an auto setting which was 98% perfect or so, but the manual processing way
really and I mean really made the video extremely high quality at low file sizes for the given standard of the time. It gave it a look and smoothness, especially in pans, too. The real real trick along with this process was to also set the sharpen edge filter to maximum 127 Horizontal and -127 Vertical. Along with Neat video noise processing, it doesn't get any better for analog tv rips - of course, a better capture card is going to make the starting point better. I am talking the processing stage. heh - Thanks again!
It's interesting, for real.
Many cheap tvs used just a bandpass filter. Better tvs used a comb filter. On a comb filter tv there won't be any difference.
Svhs decks are cool. I'll look for one
What do you think about people who tap into the video head signal and process and digitize the signal directly? (VHS-decode) It's said they get a better picture that way. The decoding is all done digitally instead of using the player's analog electronics. Is there anything in the playback of VHS machines that would limit the picture quality?
Yes you can do that and process at the rf level. Its a slow way to work.
@@12voltvids Thanks, but what I wanted to know is if you thought the results would be an improvement over just doing a video capture of the video out (or S-out as the case may be).
Never tried it. Its not done in real time. You have to capture the rf and then extract and convert video. Since I do this commercially that would result in computer time required that people are not willing to pay for. All my tapes look great as do all the ones I do for clients. Never have see any done that way so I couldn't say if they are improved or not. Since the way I do it delivers results identical to playing the tape I can't see them being better unless lots of processing is applied and there js only so much there. I have heard people claim they can upscale vhs to 4k. Sure they can and I have open front property in Vegas. You can't get something from nothing. Processors can try to guess what they think might be between lines but if it isn't there it isn't there.
@@12voltvids ok, thanks
What brand is the orange handle screwdriver you use - it looks like a handy item.
Picquik
Sooo wish I can get hold of working SVHS machine...but quick question. I have a TRV-340 dig8 (play back 8 and hi8) camera to do capturing. Will there be any difference when I capture via s-video in stead of firewire.?
Firewire is a digital connection digitized at 720x480 4:1:1 colorspace. S video is analog output. 4:1:1 colorspace is still higher resolution than analog so the firewire will give you the best quality at 25mbits avi type file structure.
@@12voltvids Thanks...so I'll keep on using firewire...till my camera goes up in smoke. Nice day for you there...from South Africa.
@@12voltvids This is not correct. Consumer analog video has a digital equivalency near 4:2:2, while NTSC DV was heavily compressed down to 4:1:1 in order to function on Pentium II computer from the mid 1990s. DV is an ancient format in the digital realm. PAL DV is 4:2:0, like DVD-Video, though a different axis. .
If you are capturing into lossless AVI 4:2:2 out of S-Video than S-Video method would be far superior than the compressed DV @ 4:1:1 for NTSC or 4:2:0 PAL.
My friend keeps nagging me to replace my 60" Panasonic plasma I bought in 2013 with an OLED, but I like my plasma and think it would be a waste to get rid of it.
I'm still watching my 63" Samsung plasma. Has a great picture. Won't replace it till it blows up. Have had it 15 years now and only fixed it once. Buffer connectors and loose grounds about 4 years ago. Took 3 of us to take it down and put it back up on the wall.
how about composite vs. s-video from computer to tv? before televisions had vga and later hdmi, composite was usually used
Obviously svideo from computer to TV is better as the signal has never been mixed.
When they built them they knew they didn't have to work on them so they didn't care how much disassembly was needed!!! And they didn't care when they installed those awful modules with the much hated glass board and smd capacitors.
The glass modules were used because they were cheap to make. Just paint the resistors on. Planned obsolescence. Why do you think I have such a hate on for any of the AG (Absolute garbage) industrial crap.
@@12voltvids *THAT* is the reason? I figured it would have some kind of special property that would make this a better candidate (though have no idea what that would be). I have a sony WM-D6 that was not cheap at all that has a speed regulator on one such module and of course it has a shot component on it. I can't believe they'd just do that on such an expensive machine.
Do you feel the VHS/SVHS machines and tapes may become popular again someday? Similar to Cassette decks and cassette tapes today.
No and cassettes haven't made a comeback either.
They will just watch.@@12voltvids
@@12voltvids have you seen the price for Cassette decks and blank tapes on eBay lately.
Most of those are fake prices. I have a bunch of cassette decks for sale and I am lucky to get 50 bucks for s good one.
@@12voltvids I'm not so sure about that. I just sold a dual well Onkyo deck for $120 US. I'm guessing the extra shipping cost in Canada is killing it for you. I don't buy from Canada being in the US due to expensive shipping.
i can't believe those plastic clips didn't break. a thing that old and a plastic that bendable...
Plasma is a great heat source! lol!
Old ones yes, but anything made after 2010 were almost as efficient as LED sets.
@@12voltvids Big change in technology in a 10 years time!
👍
Hi would the Croma and luminance be the same for Laserdisk? Again if the should was recorded SVHS or id the a different kettle of fish regarding LD?
Laserdisk is a composite format of high enough resolution that crosstalk is present. As the signal is composite no need for svideo. It won't do a dam thing. Same with all composite formats. Vhs betamax 8mm umatic 1" quad laserdisk and ced disk.
Svhs, hi8, ed beta, betacam, dv and DVD are all conponent formats. In other words the color is recorded separate from the luminance. Svhs, ed beta and hi8 are color under systems. Betacam, DVD and dv are true component formats.
@@12voltvids VHS and 8mm-based Sony formats are not composite. Those are Y/C formats. Laserdisc is specifically a composite format, and is unusual for this fact.
@lordsmurf the front end of these machines the video is composite. It doesn't matter anyway because neither can record more then 250 lines. The crosstalk can't occur until the luminance frequency approaches the color subcarrier frequency. That is between 330 and 350 lines of resolution. Since vhs and 8mm do not have the bandwidth for the interference to occur there can't be any interference. As so speculation that svideo will provide cleaner video capturing vhs or 8mm video using the same capture hardware, prove it.. off a true component format such as betacam sp or dv for sure it will but not on any color under hetrodyne color system as the color is not stable enough. On a svhs or hi8 tape the color is still unstable due to the conversion down and back up and the very limited chroma bandwidth, but because the luminance has enough bandwidth to interfere with the color sub carrier the svideo connection is a must. For regular vhs and 8mm nope. I have very high end equipment here and regular vhs and 8mm look the same regardless if captured over composite or svideo
@@12voltvids There is no "front end". The data recorded to the tape is in Y/C format, where the luma/Y is separate from the chroma/CrCb. The VCR extracts the Y/C, and then composites Y+C (smashes it together in a single carrier). That's how VCRs function. ----- In the analog domain, VHS is "240 lines" (horizontal measurement), while S-VHS is "400 lines". Note that "lines" are not resolutions. The vertical is fixed for all NTSC formats (and PAL too). In the digital equivalency domain,, VHS is about 250-350 (factors determine it), while S-VHS is about 300-500 (again, factors). Don't confuse "resolution" (the palette) with actual detail/resolve. ----- Cleanliness of the signal is mostly determined by timing correction (TBCs) and NR. Or lack thereof. Color-under recording really does not determine output quality of a VCR. ----- On S-VHS and Hi8, there is no such conversion down (then back up) of the chroma. Now, it is equivalent to 4:2:2(ish), so the chroma is a bit less than half the luma. But that's not at all the same as a "down/up" of any kind. ----- I don't know what sort of "high end" equipment you have, but it's either (1) not actually high end/quality, or (2) not functioning properly, if you're getting such poor performance that it looks "the same" as any generic low-end consumer VCR. I know you've had fits of anger regarding AG-1980P decks (as those are NOT easy to fix), but it's almost impossible to surpass the quality of the output. Same for certain JVCs, including some oddball Japanese models that are impossible to repair now (no parts available). ---- I know you have some nice videos showing repairs of junker VHS VCRs, but I don't think you fully grasp concepts like S-VHS, TBCs, and the sort. Even a cursory browse of Wikipedia shows some of your statement on this video to be very false. Perhaps read "VCR Troubleshooting & Repair" by Capelo, brush up on your knowledge.
Go and look at any 8mm or VHS camcorder. You will clearly see the video leaving the camera section and entering the VCR section is composite. Goes into the recorder section at exactly the same place that you can "input" external video and is extracted back to Y/C in the video process chip of the recorder section. Lots of amateur publications put out by people that don't know. Remember I was a sony trained factory service tech, I took the Sony engineering courses on camcorders and probably still have some of the training books burred away. Only the Hi8 models kept the lumanence and chroma seperate. On the others the signals are already mixed. and then seperated again when down converted.
You are confusing fixed count pixels with lines of resolution. All NTSC has 480 active lines per frame split into 2 fields of 262.5 lines per field. This is the vertcal resolution that all NTSC video has. Horizontal resolution is how many black white transitions can occur in 1 line.
On your fixed count that would be 720 pixels as DVD and DV used as their fixed count which translates roughly into 360 equally spaced black and white dots. As 360 white + 360 black would equal 720 total lines.
VHS and 8mm can only resolve about 240 tv lines, but it gets blurry because analog TV does not use pixels its analog.
The reason the chroma is seperated in the first place is because there is not the bandwidth required to record the full color signal in place as is done on 1", Quad and Laserdisc. The color signal on NTSC has about 1.2Mhz of bandwidth for each the red and blue components.
It is located on a 3.579545693 mhz sub carrier and added to the video signal. Black and white TV just display the normal video signal. Color TV use a "tuner" to extract this 3.57MHz subcarrier. The acrrier is suppressed when the signal is added as a double sideband quaduature signal.
The carrier is re-generated and inserted so the now 2 AM signals that are 90' out of phase with each other can be demodulated. This is far too high in frequency to be recorded directly on low bandwidth VCR so the chroma is mixed with another carrier to convert the frequency down to 629khz for vhs, 688 for betamax and Umatic and 733 for 8mm. This down converted color is reccorded to tape. Because the frequency is now lower the bandwidth is also restricted. There is no room for 1.2mhz bandwidth. The center of the carrier is 629Khz therefore the color is limited to just under .5MHz max. So you are getting about 1/3 of the original color bandwidth or about 40 lines of color resolution. On playback the color is by means of mixing converted back to 3.579545 mhz. It is then mixed back into the video signal and sent to composite output. In the case of Svideo it is sent down a separate wire,
When the signal is mixed there will be interference created is the frequency of the lumanence video signal gets into that 3.579545 region. This occurs between 300 and 320 lines of resolutuion as the video signal gets into the chroma range. Now, remember SVHS and Hi8 can record to 400 lines it is therefore possible for the lumanence signal to get into the chroma. NTSC video goes out to 4.2Mhz whish is about 330 lines (its limited there because the sound was transmitted 4.5MHz above the picture carrier but that is broadcast, different animal)
So as you can see since VHS and 8mm do not get anywhere near that 300 equivalent lines of resolution the bandwidth does not even get close to 3.579545 mhz. Vhs lumanence bandwidth falls off under 3mhz therefore there is no possibility of the lumanence causing interference. SHVS and Hi8 on the other hand can record well over 5mhz of lumanence bandwidth and therefore are well into that 3.579545 (for NTSC, 4.43Mhz for PAL) frequency space and interference will occur if the signals are mixed.
Hi8 and SVHS cameras keep the signals separate from the camera head. Yes the SVHS and Hi8 cameras had a totally different camera or "front end" than the the camera used on standard cameras. The standard ones had a lower resolution chip too, which didn't generate the bandwidth to have the crosstalk problem to begin with.
Do you really think the camera manufactures would spend extra money to keep Y/C signals separate if there was no benefit? No, and they didn't.
This argument has been going on for 40 years.
An SVHS deck has additional circuitry for sure for SVHS tapes but the standard tapes are played back using the conventional circuitry. Yes the chroma is output over Y/C as well as composite but due to no interference between the 2 signals being possible there is no advantage.
Now saying that, many TV manufactures especially in the late 80s and 90's calibrated the Svideo input to a slightly higher video level so that the picture appeared brighter to the viewer. This was a sales gimic, that amounted to nothing more than turning the contrast up slightly on that input so the tv would stand out on a row of TVs. The eye is drawn to the brighter more vivid picture. Playing a svhs, hi8, dvd or dv source definately makes a difference but not for VHS or 8mm. Not possible because the information isn't there.
Can you tell me what the problem is with my camera, when ever I record something I can’t go back and watch it, no matter how long I record there is no play back when I go to play and edit, it’s like it deletes after I stop recording, not sure if it’s a setting thing, or if the camera is messed up.
Its broken. Glad I could be of assistance. 😁
@@12voltvids what would you think is wrong with it?
I haven't got the foggiest? Is it tape based? Flash? DVD?
@@12voltvids tape based
My truck goes clunk clunk klinky pop. What’s wrong with it?
Same with the brand that stsrts with a J and ends with a C
Yes the junk video co supplied the svhs module to many other companies like Mitsubishi and those modules all had leaky surface electrolytic caps. Sony built their own. That's why I like the Sony decks because they didn't use jvc modules which have all failed by this point.
@@12voltvids You keep repeating "svhs module", but that's not a thing. It reminds me of Chumlee from Pawn Stars, in an episode where he talked about cars having a "modulator".
Canadas the only place still using VCR’s…
I’m from Rochester NY and ai still use vcr’s and crt tvs!!
Nobody uses VCRs here. People however do have old tapes that they want to digitize. That is who buys old VCRs and fixes them. There may be a few collectors that use them just for fun and to play around with but most don't. We actually had hard drive based PVRs here before most of the world. I had a hard drive based PVR in 1996.
It's a lame as vhs. Who cares if it works?