Lucky you had a working stk.:-D He would have found it impossible to get a real one. I bodged up a mates vcr psu with a relay /7812/and two transistors and two resistors. Yep the relay powered the 7812. . Never failed. He didn't have 30 quid for a new stk.
Wouldn't take that much effort to fabricate a PCB to replace these hybrids they are nothing more than a few voltage regulators. I have a Hitachi 4 head mono deck with one and the IC still works if it didn't I'd have fired up Altium and made my own. I'm too lazy to make something if I don't need it 🙂.
I have fabricated them before for my own stuff but I would never do that for a clients unit. Reason? Liability. If the unit caught fire even if it had nothing to do with the mod i could be sued. I know someone that was sued about 40 years ago for modding a customer's device that caught fire. Guy lost everything. Happened to the shop that was across the street.
@@Bushougoma It was a small business and he was sued lost his business and house. I don't know much about the circumstances other than he was modifying equipment and a fire resulted. I don't know if the fire was a direct result of what work was done but what was determined was that it was a piece of modified equipment that had caught fire and burned the house to the ground. The insurance company was out for blood and put the shop out of business and he didn't have enough liability insurance because due to him altering equipment his business insurance was invalid so they went after him personally and took his house. we used to mod equipment at the shop I worked at things like putting headphone jacks on TVs etc. We would always put an audio transformer to isolate the chassis from the headphone plug so that it wasn't a safety hazard but it was still a modification. After this happened the boss came into the back and he said no more headphone plugs we're not doing it because he wasn't going to be liable if something happened because of what happened to the shop that had been across the street. I actually work for that shop when I was in high school but it had changed hands and it was the new owners that were the ones hammered. Boss came in and said no mods. If I catch you doing a mod you're fired. I remember one time a customer came in wanting a tower removed. I overheard and wanting a tower for my ham radio popped my head out front and told him i could get it taken down. My boss told me i couldn't do it. I told him to fuck off as he couldn't tell me what I could do in my spare time. He went to his lawyer and had a legal document drafted that everyone that helped me remove the tower had to sign so that if someone got hurt or anything was damaged he wouldn't be liable. He wouldn't anyway because his shop wasn't doing it but he was so paranoid that if one of his employees got sued that they could come back after him. The son of a bitch actually expected me to pay the lawyer fee to draft this letter to which I told him to stuff up his ass but knowing that piece of shit I worked for he likely docked it from my pay because he was slimy enough to do that. May he rest in piss.
@@12voltvids That sounds like he was operating the business as a sole proprietorship and didn't incorporate they can attach your personal assets in that type of situation. If you have a corporation they can only go after your business assets. That's how it would work in the US anyway your laws may be different. What a scumbag you must have a tremendous amount of patience to tolerate such a miserable person for so long.
99% of my tapes were Scotch because my father worked for 3M and got them at a huge discount. I still have the majority of them from the 80s and they all still work fine.
From an engineering standpoint they were cool. If beta had been the standard people would have been much happier. Better picture and sound, but JVC gave away the farm so to speak. They permitted every tom dick and Harry to produce the inferior VHS format. One that Sony had originally codevoloped and wrote off as having too poor picture. Sony had quality standards and everyone that made betamax had to commit to these quality standards or not make machines. JVC licensed everyone to turn out whatever they wanted. Why do you think the lp speed was left alone for so long. It was never an accepted standard and some machines could not even play it. Sp and ep were the only speeds. Had the vhs camp not been so casual that would have nipped that in the but as soon as it happened. They finally did with svhs, no lp recording permitted but they still played legacy tapes.
i bought a brand new regulator IC on ebay to fix my superbeta with the same issue shown in the video, i had no problems with it. those ICs are originally made by Sanyo. not all are fake. and their actually not hard to find.
it is good thing my old corolla has good ground clearance. last winter i was a bit nervous having to drive uphill in maybe 20cm of snow (major snow storm and small road) but my trusty 2004 front wheel drive corolla did just fine :) in my opinion electric cars still need a decade or two to perfect the technology
Electric cars have been prefected. The guy that wrecked his car drove over a curb. Had nothing to do with ground clearance. When you go 4x4ing in your car expect bad things to happen.
Thx for your videos! Curious about some nostalgia... Would you be willing to do a video/demo on how using Logic Probes and Pulsers were used the past? Heard about them, but not finding any videos showing them and their use. Thinking you may have used them yourself at some time. Thx.
In the late '80s, a friend took on the task of copying someone's CED collection onto VHS. I loaned my friend my SL-HFT7 so he could copy the movies I wanted onto Beta. He got a deal on BASF tapes so that is what he used. Worst tapes I've ever had to deal with. Would have to clean the heads multiple times per tape.
@@12voltvidsI'm not German, but BASF chrome audio tapes were great when they were not too old, and also BASF VHS tapes had great picture quality. BUT the issue on top of the increased head wear is that they age quite poorly. They are usually OK for 20-25 years. For chrome audio tapes, when they degrade, you can not record onto them anymore, but the original recording still sounds perfect, very low noise and nice overall sound quality with rich high frequencies. I just tried to watch an original 1993 prerecorded Twin Peaks VHS 3 days ago, it is on a BASF chrome cassette. The tape was stored in an outside shed for about 5 years. It became slightly sticky, it's not shedding, but only 2 of the 5 VCRs I tried were able to play it, the others either stalled, or started to wrinkle the edge of the tape. The picture quality is still OK, but the HiFi audio completely *vanished* , like if it was never present. The worst of the BASF VHS tapes were their premium ones. The picture quality was great, but they were backcoated, and that backcoating could become sticky and flaking off, as early as 10-15 years. My favourite tapes for VHS are TDK EHG HiFi, TDK HD-X, Sony Premium V, but even plain simple TDK HS was great, our family VHS is on one of those. Also note that in Europe, we had the Video2000 system. 90% of the tapes for that system are chrome, either made by BASF, AGFA or Philips. They are still playable after 40+ years. 3M Scotch, TDK, Maxell and even Sony (!) tapes were also available for the Video2000 system. These were chrome-free ferro-cobalt tapes, except the Sony ones, which were rebadged chrome BASF. I have one of those, they are probably quite rare.
@@mrnmrn1 chromium dioxide tapes were all very hard on tape heads. That's why colbalt tapes were devoloped. Of course metal is also hard on the heads but special hard heads are used on metal comparable recorders. All I can tell you is basf video tapes chewed through heads faster than any other brands. I had to deal with angry customers who's video heads were shot in 14 months (12 month warranty) sometimes multiple times. We asked them to bring in their tapes. All basf pure chrome tapes. I have a few of their t200 tapes I used in a security recorder but that had super hard heads for the 24 hour mode that would run 40 hours on a t200 tape. They woild wear down the tape pretty quick because it went so slow. The reason why hifi does quickly was the way that HiFi signals were recorded Hi-Fi audio signals were recorded to a deep layer of the tape and the video signal lay down over top on a different. the very nature of chrome tape is that signals all stay near the surface of the tape and do not get recorded to deep layers because chrome is not a thick tape it's a surface coating. the very best cassette tapes that I ever used were the Sony fecr. These were ferric tapes with a chrome top coat. Look at them brown on the back side and purple on too. Best of both worlds. Deep bass and sizzling trebble.
@@12voltvids Many claims that video heads in Video2000 system VCRs were super soft. Well, most of them were only ever used with chrome tapes, that might be the reason for the video heads wearing out too soon. Yes, I have some FeCr tapes, the same problem applies to them both head wear-wise, and chrome layer degradation-wise. They are all degraded by now to some degree, with some of them only the ferric layer works by now, so it sounds awful. I have a few AGFA ones and a Sony that still can be recorded with OK quality. They are super sensitive for storage conditions. AFAIK the main reason for the Japanese to develop ferro-cobalt tapes to substitute chrome, was the very high cost of manufacturing chrome dioxide particles. Only a handful of plants produced these particles worldwide, the technology was so expensive to licence, and the manufacturing process was also very expensive, the Japanese decided to find an other solution. I have some Sony chrome tapes from the '70s, before they developed their first ferro-cobalt Type-II tape. It seems they held up better than the German chrome tapes from the same period, but even the Sony ones are mostly unusable for recording by now. I think their first ferro-cobalt Type-II tape was the CD-Alpha in '78, I have some of those, they are excellent. They don't look like Type-II, they have quite a light shade of brown. Interestingly, some high-end VHS tapes from Maxell also have a light brown color, they look like ferric tapes, even some SVHS ones. Earlier Sony Betamax tapes are also quite light brown.
Are TDK EHG and Maxell HGX tapes as agressive on the heads as the Sony UHG ones? I can tell the difference in the picture quality with a regular and a high grade tape even on my 1981 Sanyo top loader.
High grade tape, all of them are more agressive on the heads. Doesn't matter if it is beta, VHS, cassette or open reel. At the microscopic level smaller particles mean more can be packed in. This displaces a slight air gap and results in more head to tape contact which will increase head wear. With high grade tapes 1000 hours is what tape heads typically last. With standard tape 2000 to 2500 hours. So yes it wears the heads out faater but hey you get a better picture. I personally would trade a slight increase in picture quality for a longer running video head. 40 years ago i would have chosen the standard tape over ultra high grade and even more so today when replacement heads are hard to come by.
I think the ECG-1735 cross references with the STK-5441 and is pin-compatible. Not a perfect solution, mind you, since the quality of the ECG-Philips part may not be as good as the original Sanyo part, but it is better than nothing if you can't find any good STK-5441 modules to help revive a dead Sony 711 Beta PSU.
I bet sitting in storage may of had something to do with the loose cracked solder joints especially if he had it in a non climate controlled storage shed, the extreme hot and cold temperature fluxuations may of played a role in the issue. You are supposed to store these things in a temperature controlled enviroment.
i had same machine in uk, same probs, , chucked it away,. it was mint condition tho, & i only have VHS tapes anyhows as a rule, i had to try & test it with a betacam tape
@@djdrunkenmonkey2 for the same reason super VHS tape should have not been used in regular VHS. Yes it works but it also can wear the heads faster. Svhs machines had harder heads to deal with the fiber particle tape
It's silicone oil and before you ask I have no idea where to get it now. There was a jar of it that was at the shop when i started there in 83 and it was still there in 03 when i quit.
@@potassiumchloride6968try hobby shops that sell RC cars and trucks. Silicone oil of various viscosities are available for use in the hydraulic shocks that are common upgrades. I’d imagine that with some experimentation you could find the one that works best.
Hi mister! I have 1camcorder it works but after i turn on it has only blue screen it doesn't say anything no matter what button you touch and it doesn't record and doesn't show what is in tape like doesn't show the video in tape what can i do?
I changed hundreds of them. I don't even leave my betas plugged in these days. I plug them in when i need then and as soon as i am done they are unplugged. No unneeded heat and stress to a part that popped for no reason. How did that saying go? A 40.00 regulator ic will protect a 10 cent fuse by blowing first. 😁
If I had a dollar for ever STK chip period that I've changed because it failed, I'd be rich. It's not just the regulator STK chips that fail, but the amplifier ones, too. I'm glad Sony stopped using the stupid things in their receivers and went back to a discrete output stage driven by voltage amp ICs.
@@AstrosElectronicsLab Remember the 3 channel chips used on the projector tv for the convergence. Money makers. Just garbage. I laugh even harder at the folks that suggest opening them up and replacing the transistors inside them.
Tesla is the last brand i would buy i know 2 people that own them and they both say they are a piece of shit. Unlike many they haven't drunk the Kool aid that must Tesla owners have. I'm sticking to plug in hybrid myself. Best of both worlds. I have 2 volts
So glad this was fixable, can't wait to start going through all the betamax tapes with this.
It's a good machine and in really good condition. Looks almost new inside.
Like seeing vintage gear restored❤
Yep, the Christmas special boom list 👌 great idea! even some intentional like Shango's EOL's
Lucky you had a working stk.:-D
He would have found it impossible to get a real one.
I bodged up a mates vcr psu with a relay /7812/and two transistors and two resistors.
Yep the relay powered the 7812.
.
Never failed.
He didn't have 30 quid for a new stk.
Wouldn't take that much effort to fabricate a PCB to replace these hybrids they are nothing more than a few voltage regulators.
I have a Hitachi 4 head mono deck with one and the IC still works if it didn't I'd have fired up Altium and made my own. I'm too lazy to make something if I don't need it 🙂.
I have fabricated them before for my own stuff but I would never do that for a clients unit. Reason? Liability. If the unit caught fire even if it had nothing to do with the mod i could be sued. I know someone that was sued about 40 years ago for modding a customer's device that caught fire. Guy lost everything. Happened to the shop that was across the street.
@@12voltvids Hopefully he had a Corporation or LLC established if not that had to a be painful lesson to learn.
@@Bushougoma It was a small business and he was sued lost his business and house. I don't know much about the circumstances other than he was modifying equipment and a fire resulted. I don't know if the fire was a direct result of what work was done but what was determined was that it was a piece of modified equipment that had caught fire and burned the house to the ground. The insurance company was out for blood and put the shop out of business and he didn't have enough liability insurance because due to him altering equipment his business insurance was invalid so they went after him personally and took his house. we used to mod equipment at the shop I worked at things like putting headphone jacks on TVs etc. We would always put an audio transformer to isolate the chassis from the headphone plug so that it wasn't a safety hazard but it was still a modification. After this happened the boss came into the back and he said no more headphone plugs we're not doing it because he wasn't going to be liable if something happened because of what happened to the shop that had been across the street. I actually work for that shop when I was in high school but it had changed hands and it was the new owners that were the ones hammered. Boss came in and said no mods. If I catch you doing a mod you're fired. I remember one time a customer came in wanting a tower removed. I overheard and wanting a tower for my ham radio popped my head out front and told him i could get it taken down. My boss told me i couldn't do it. I told him to fuck off as he couldn't tell me what I could do in my spare time. He went to his lawyer and had a legal document drafted that everyone that helped me remove the tower had to sign so that if someone got hurt or anything was damaged he wouldn't be liable. He wouldn't anyway because his shop wasn't doing it but he was so paranoid that if one of his employees got sued that they could come back after him. The son of a bitch actually expected me to pay the lawyer fee to draft this letter to which I told him to stuff up his ass but knowing that piece of shit I worked for he likely docked it from my pay because he was slimy enough to do that. May he rest in piss.
@@12voltvids That sounds like he was operating the business as a sole proprietorship and didn't incorporate they can attach your personal assets in that type of situation. If you have a corporation they can only go after your business assets.
That's how it would work in the US anyway your laws may be different.
What a scumbag you must have a tremendous amount of patience to tolerate such a miserable person for so long.
99% of my tapes were Scotch because my father worked for 3M and got them at a huge discount. I still have the majority of them from the 80s and they all still work fine.
Scotch tapes were good
You make it look easy.. and it never happens like that for me. I injoy your videos very much.
I make it look easy because I did this for a living for years.
Nice machine!
احب الفديو كاسيت ايام زمان
From an engineering standpoint they were cool. If beta had been the standard people would have been much happier. Better picture and sound, but JVC gave away the farm so to speak. They permitted every tom dick and Harry to produce the inferior VHS format. One that Sony had originally codevoloped and wrote off as having too poor picture. Sony had quality standards and everyone that made betamax had to commit to these quality standards or not make machines. JVC licensed everyone to turn out whatever they wanted. Why do you think the lp speed was left alone for so long. It was never an accepted standard and some machines could not even play it. Sp and ep were the only speeds. Had the vhs camp not been so casual that would have nipped that in the but as soon as it happened. They finally did with svhs, no lp recording permitted but they still played legacy tapes.
i bought a brand new regulator IC on ebay to fix my superbeta with the same issue shown in the video, i had no problems with it. those ICs are originally made by Sanyo. not all are fake. and their actually not hard to find.
Well if that's your last Video Before Christmas pal Have a Good one & Wishing you & The Family all the Best From 🇬🇧 .
I might do another one tomorrow.
Depends if I feel like working. I certainly do have a few things to work on
it is good thing my old corolla has good ground clearance. last winter i was a bit nervous having to drive uphill in maybe 20cm of snow (major snow storm and small road) but my trusty 2004 front wheel drive corolla did just fine :) in my opinion electric cars still need a decade or two to perfect the technology
Electric cars have been prefected.
The guy that wrecked his car drove over a curb. Had nothing to do with ground clearance. When you go 4x4ing in your car expect bad things to happen.
I Wish you marry chirismas and Happy new year 🎉😅😅❤
How does one marry Christmas? 😆
Merry Christmas
Happy holidays!
Thx for your videos! Curious about some nostalgia... Would you be willing to do a video/demo on how using Logic Probes and Pulsers were used the past? Heard about them, but not finding any videos showing them and their use. Thinking you may have used them yourself at some time. Thx.
Never used logic probes. Scope and meter is all I ever used.
@@12voltvids Thx. I will search on then. Cheers.
I have the same model. The rotation detection sensor for the video head drum motor was defective.
Yes that happens too.
In the late '80s, a friend took on the task of copying someone's CED collection onto VHS. I loaned my friend my SL-HFT7 so he could copy the movies I wanted onto Beta. He got a deal on BASF tapes so that is what he used. Worst tapes I've ever had to deal with. Would have to clean the heads multiple times per tape.
Yes basf tape has always been garbage. Only the Germans think it is great tape.
@@12voltvidsI'm not German, but BASF chrome audio tapes were great when they were not too old, and also BASF VHS tapes had great picture quality. BUT the issue on top of the increased head wear is that they age quite poorly. They are usually OK for 20-25 years. For chrome audio tapes, when they degrade, you can not record onto them anymore, but the original recording still sounds perfect, very low noise and nice overall sound quality with rich high frequencies.
I just tried to watch an original 1993 prerecorded Twin Peaks VHS 3 days ago, it is on a BASF chrome cassette. The tape was stored in an outside shed for about 5 years. It became slightly sticky, it's not shedding, but only 2 of the 5 VCRs I tried were able to play it, the others either stalled, or started to wrinkle the edge of the tape. The picture quality is still OK, but the HiFi audio completely *vanished* , like if it was never present.
The worst of the BASF VHS tapes were their premium ones. The picture quality was great, but they were backcoated, and that backcoating could become sticky and flaking off, as early as 10-15 years.
My favourite tapes for VHS are TDK EHG HiFi, TDK HD-X, Sony Premium V, but even plain simple TDK HS was great, our family VHS is on one of those.
Also note that in Europe, we had the Video2000 system. 90% of the tapes for that system are chrome, either made by BASF, AGFA or Philips. They are still playable after 40+ years. 3M Scotch, TDK, Maxell and even Sony (!) tapes were also available for the Video2000 system. These were chrome-free ferro-cobalt tapes, except the Sony ones, which were rebadged chrome BASF. I have one of those, they are probably quite rare.
@@mrnmrn1 chromium dioxide tapes were all very hard on tape heads. That's why colbalt tapes were devoloped. Of course metal is also hard on the heads but special hard heads are used on metal comparable recorders.
All I can tell you is basf video tapes chewed through heads faster than any other brands. I had to deal with angry customers who's video heads were shot in 14 months (12 month warranty) sometimes multiple times. We asked them to bring in their tapes. All basf pure chrome tapes. I have a few of their t200 tapes I used in a security recorder but that had super hard heads for the 24 hour mode that would run 40 hours on a t200 tape. They woild wear down the tape pretty quick because it went so slow.
The reason why hifi does quickly was the way that HiFi signals were recorded Hi-Fi audio signals were recorded to a deep layer of the tape and the video signal lay down over top on a different. the very nature of chrome tape is that signals all stay near the surface of the tape and do not get recorded to deep layers because chrome is not a thick tape it's a surface coating. the very best cassette tapes that I ever used were the Sony fecr. These were ferric tapes with a chrome top coat. Look at them brown on the back side and purple on too. Best of both worlds. Deep bass and sizzling trebble.
@@12voltvids Many claims that video heads in Video2000 system VCRs were super soft. Well, most of them were only ever used with chrome tapes, that might be the reason for the video heads wearing out too soon.
Yes, I have some FeCr tapes, the same problem applies to them both head wear-wise, and chrome layer degradation-wise. They are all degraded by now to some degree, with some of them only the ferric layer works by now, so it sounds awful. I have a few AGFA ones and a Sony that still can be recorded with OK quality. They are super sensitive for storage conditions.
AFAIK the main reason for the Japanese to develop ferro-cobalt tapes to substitute chrome, was the very high cost of manufacturing chrome dioxide particles. Only a handful of plants produced these particles worldwide, the technology was so expensive to licence, and the manufacturing process was also very expensive, the Japanese decided to find an other solution.
I have some Sony chrome tapes from the '70s, before they developed their first ferro-cobalt Type-II tape. It seems they held up better than the German chrome tapes from the same period, but even the Sony ones are mostly unusable for recording by now. I think their first ferro-cobalt Type-II tape was the CD-Alpha in '78, I have some of those, they are excellent. They don't look like Type-II, they have quite a light shade of brown. Interestingly, some high-end VHS tapes from Maxell also have a light brown color, they look like ferric tapes, even some SVHS ones. Earlier Sony Betamax tapes are also quite light brown.
Are TDK EHG and Maxell HGX tapes as agressive on the heads as the Sony UHG ones? I can tell the difference in the picture quality with a regular and a high grade tape even on my 1981 Sanyo top loader.
High grade tape, all of them are more agressive on the heads. Doesn't matter if it is beta, VHS, cassette or open reel. At the microscopic level smaller particles mean more can be packed in. This displaces a slight air gap and results in more head to tape contact which will increase head wear. With high grade tapes 1000 hours is what tape heads typically last. With standard tape 2000 to 2500 hours. So yes it wears the heads out faater but hey you get a better picture. I personally would trade a slight increase in picture quality for a longer running video head. 40 years ago i would have chosen the standard tape over ultra high grade and even more so today when replacement heads are hard to come by.
I think the ECG-1735 cross references with the STK-5441 and is pin-compatible.
Not a perfect solution, mind you, since the quality of the ECG-Philips part may not be as good as the original Sanyo part, but it is better than nothing if you can't find any good STK-5441 modules to help revive a dead Sony 711 Beta PSU.
I bet sitting in storage may of had something to do with the loose cracked solder joints especially if he had it in a non climate controlled storage shed, the extreme hot and cold temperature fluxuations may of played a role in the issue. You are supposed to store these things in a temperature controlled enviroment.
i had same machine in uk, same probs, , chucked it away,. it was mint condition tho, & i only have VHS tapes anyhows as a rule, i had to try & test it with a betacam tape
Betacam used same tape. Betacam SP was metal tape avd will wear the heads in a betamax machine pretty quick.
@@12voltvids yes i thought that may be the case,, i use broadcast S-VHS in my standard 80s jvc vhs machine tho, great picture!
@@djdrunkenmonkey2 for the same reason super VHS tape should have not been used in regular VHS. Yes it works but it also can wear the heads faster. Svhs machines had harder heads to deal with the fiber particle tape
Do you have nay idea where I may be able to track down an nos laser pick up for an onkyo dx 7500 CD player?
No
Good luck with that. Finding laser pickups for CD players are like trying to find head drums for VCRs, next to impossible.
can you help me find the liquid-gum type compound used in casset deck door. it makes the door open slower!
It's silicone oil and before you ask I have no idea where to get it now. There was a jar of it that was at the shop when i started there in 83 and it was still there in 03 when i quit.
@@12voltvids thanks😊
@@potassiumchloride6968try hobby shops that sell RC cars and trucks. Silicone oil of various viscosities are available for use in the hydraulic shocks that are common upgrades. I’d imagine that with some experimentation you could find the one that works best.
Can that tape slapping also happen on playback?
No happens on rewind only.
Hi mister! I have 1camcorder it works but after i turn on it has only blue screen it doesn't say anything no matter what button you touch and it doesn't record and doesn't show what is in tape like doesn't show the video in tape what can i do?
It's broken. I have no idea what's wrong with it.
Sony powered by Sanyo
And later, there were Sony VHS which were a 100% Sanyo inside.
That's why they broke. Sanyo garbage inside.
@@12voltvids The were actually more robust. Talking about P90...P92 mechanisms. Bombproof.
If I had a fiver for every STK5481 I've changed...
I changed hundreds of them. I don't even leave my betas plugged in these days. I plug them in when i need then and as soon as i am done they are unplugged. No unneeded heat and stress to a part that popped for no reason.
How did that saying go? A 40.00 regulator ic will protect a 10 cent fuse by blowing first. 😁
If I had a dollar for ever STK chip period that I've changed because it failed, I'd be rich. It's not just the regulator STK chips that fail, but the amplifier ones, too. I'm glad Sony stopped using the stupid things in their receivers and went back to a discrete output stage driven by voltage amp ICs.
@@AstrosElectronicsLab
Remember the 3 channel chips used on the projector tv for the convergence. Money makers. Just garbage. I laugh even harder at the folks that suggest opening them up and replacing the transistors inside them.
I thought you had a Tesla?
Tesla is the last brand i would buy i know 2 people that own them and they both say they are a piece of shit. Unlike many they haven't drunk the Kool aid that must Tesla owners have. I'm sticking to plug in hybrid myself. Best of both worlds. I have 2 volts