We were BASHED by the Dealer! Ripping off a customer! Toyota Highlander 3.3
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2022
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After you reading off the list ,I'm guessing they want a big repair to things that are easy to do for the high end repair bill.
Thanks Ray!
You didn't use them in this video but what are those pliers called that are like a locking crescent wrench?
Link for the wrench that broke/needs warranty? That flexhead/double teeth is awesome
Are you ex Navy?
A dealership bashing other places for ripping people off that's hilarious.
A dealership bashing others for ripping people off while they were trying to rip people off.
Lonely Wolfe, dealerships rip people off on a daily basis. The fact that they’re bashing u for it is funny.
Dealership: they charged you $300, 6 months ago, and now you have some issues again, what a ripoff!
Also Dealership: we'll fix it for $1600 for you. For an additional $450 we'll give you a 12 mo parts only warranty.
No data they did anything wrong at the dealer. Rays shop did half the work and failed on several problems.
@@cayman9873 true but he’s blaming the dealership for the misdiagnosis 🤣
17:44 Brake cleaner used on actual, honest-to-god, god damn brakes.
What a sight to behold.
What!? You can use brake cleaner on brakes? Who would’ve of thunk?
What?! It's not the stuff to clean your hands when you go for a break? :-)
You can see brake cleaner used on many parts on many videos, but this is the first time on just brakes!
Brake cleaner is a nurotoxin, ;) think about that, everytime you wash you hands with it and it absorbs into ya skin! A sink and soap, may take longer. May
Yeah, yet all he needed to do was bash it on the ground to shake the rust out. Waste of Brake Kleen in my opinion.
I'm an old son of a mechanic... a shade tree DIY'er who has been enjoying your humor, advice, tips and honesty. I would like to offer a bit of health advice that my father learned the hard way. When he was a young mechanic working for a dealer, it was common brake repair practice to take an air hose and blow all the rusty dust off the parts. This would leave a 'dust' cloud in the shop for all to breathe. Back in those days, the shoe lining was made with asbestos... needless to say what he died from. I realize asbestos is no longer used, but are you 100% certain that the 'dust' you are creating isn't laced with some contaminant that will be listed tomorrow as "found harmful in lab mechanics'. :) "We don't know what we don't know" so please wear a mask! That's all...carry on.
You are 100% the right person to be in the auto repair industry. You care about your work, you care about your customers, and you take pride in yourself. What a beautiful and sadly rare set of characteristics in a person these days.
Dropped my van for an oil change. The counter man wrote up that I "needed" cabin and air filters because they were clogged. I purposely removed the cabin filter so it couldn’t be inspected, but somehow the genius saw something that did no exist. I never trust dealerships or nationwide service companies…they’re all crooks! I only trust my mechanic of 20+ years who has never cheated me like all the other places do.
I used to replace my air filter the day before I get an oil change. Invariably they come out with some dirty one to show me it needed replacing and I’d show them the receipt and walk them out to show me what’s under the hood. I got several free oil changes that way…
well duh ofcource you needed the filter if there was no filter.
@@lostepisode3 the point is that he said the filter was clogged even though it was not even there
I was sitting in a Honda dealership and saw a posted price of $200 to replace a cabin filter. Wow!
@@pauldiesel4582 Some of the Honda cabin filters are a PITA !! But still not worth $200.
First thing I do when customer complains about the brakes is replace the cabin filter 🙄
When I was a dealer tech mid 90's, You were taught the difference between a leak and a seep and yes, caliper slides must slide to adjust for pad wear and if calipers were sticking? That dog be a smokin!
And on top of that, Are you the owner? just put new set rear rotors on that rust bucket, They probly not even 30 bucks a piece and make the people happy.
Anybody that knows you, knows you are an honest mechanic. God bless ya! Keep up excellent work. 👌
My favorite frustration story is about my wife's car. It had a vibration. Her dad helped out by taking it to the dealer while she was at work. The dealer said it needed brakes. $700. We declined. I took it back that Saturday. After waiting for an hour, they came back and said a wheel was loose, no charge. That proved they didn't even look at the brakes on the first visit.
Not really. The tech that looked at your car may not have checked the brakes, or not thought they were as bad as the other tech did. I tried to sell a lady brakes today because there was plenty of brake pad left on the rear pads, but only about 3/32 of an inch (that's getting into dangerously low territory, on front wheel drive vehicles, front pads are declared a 'safety liability' at my shop at about 4/32. She declined because the pads were a fair bit expensive, but what you're paying for is labor rates. Brake pad replacement on the car I was trying to sell brakes on is quoted at .9 of an hour. The hourly rate of the tech on the ticket was about 200, because he's got all the ASE Certifications and is classed as a Master Technician. Technician rates are higher than ever because schools don't talk about trades, they push college. Tradesmen are becoming rarer and rarer, so demand is sky high and to draw techs in, so are pay rates. THAT is why dealership work is so expensive. At a lot of shops it's expensive, dealer or not because techs aren't widely available.
@@apoplecticwrenchmonkey Solid points you made. Thanks. Although, I guess I would ask if a basic brake job requires ASE Master Technician level work. Just trying to learn...
@@D45VR No, a brake job absolutely doesn't require ASE Certified techs, however it isn't really up to the techs who gets what jobs. You might have a tech with six ASE certifications, paid 120 per billable hour, doing your brakes, or you might have one of the lube techs, paid maybe 20-30 an hour if he's flat rate, doing them. Depends on a few factors: Are you in for a routine maintenance (i.e. oil change/tire rotate, fluids check, etc) or are you in for a check engine light or other complaint? If it's a routine maintenance and you need brakes, you'll probably (though not always) get a lube tech doing the work, which means you'll get either his rate or in other cases the shop's set rate instead of the specific tech's rate. The lube tech only sees his 20-30 an hour, the rest goes to the shop to pay for things like gloves, brake clean and other shop supplies, which are rather important. Talking trans fluid, differential oil, etc. Things you WANT the shop to have extra of.
Anyway, long story short, yes things are expensive, even if it's a simple lube tech. Cars are a huge investment of money and when things break, it can be unpleasant. I'm not justifying the insane costs, nor the fact that some techs do try to scalp customers for a paycheck.
But, even without the tech rates, things can get expensive due to part shortages and depending on the vehicle, part availability in general. I've just sunk over two grand into my own car for what was originally just blown head gaskets, and I'm not getting paid for it since I'm doing the work myself. Needed new gaskets and new head bolts, then I found a broken vacuum line which is another couple hundred for the lines and the fittings on my particular car, ended up needing new injectors since two of the old ones were starting to fail, needed a new intake manifold since the old one cracked during removal (206K miles on the car over ten years, so time and use just wore it out).
@@apoplecticwrenchmonkey Take "ASE Certified" and "Master technician" with a grain of salt. Countless lazy parts changers are considered "master technicians" because they got away with lazy, shitty work for so long that they think they're actual mechanics.
@@apoplecticwrenchmonkey my idea of a master technician is some one blueprinting an engine, transmission repair, breaking out the oscilloscope doing in depth diagnostics, engine out jobs etc.
Learning to shed that feeling of guilt that you did something wrong when a machine breaks down simply due to entropy was a big game changer for me too Ray. Totally get what you're saying about not getting too invested while still taking personal responsibility
I like this way of looking at the dreaded come-back.I work fleet maintenance hourly,but still always hated that.
As a service technician I completely understand and agree,
Haven’t heard the word “entropy” since high school chemistry. Thanks for taking me back!
It's when people get defensive that everyone gets grumpy. Feeling responsible is normal. Learn from it and let it go.
We get this as rental mechanics as well by our other stores and I get customers who call me personally all over the state because they don’t trust anyone else don’t take this personally at all take it with a grain of salt
I can appreciate that you are fixing parts rather than just telling the customer they need all new I feel like that's how you get return customers in the good way
Sir, People in your area are lucky to have you to take there car to. Way to and thanks for being honest and transparent and just over all caring about the vehicles you work on.
I don't think we clean and lube brake parts often enough, especially the whole park brake mechanism and sliders. I also love the way you recognized those rubber rings on the sliders were missing, that's a pro moment right there. Way to go, turning a negative into a positive.
I take those rubber rings off when I see them, they swell up and seize the slide pin, never had a problem or a come back to this day
@@jsbbd136 hmm. maybe you should film your every-day works and insights and make your youtube channel a competitor for ray! i will be a subscriber, please go ahead!
I know the only time I actually do it is when the customer says their parking brakes are not working, because the flat rate book doesn't mention includes clean and lubricate parking brake components with a rear brake job with a seperate parking brake mechanism
@@jsbbd136 gota use the proper lube: non petroleum base. "Red rubber grease" or silicone grease is what works and will not swell rubber brake parts.
The culture around brake components being disposable is a big problem that causes poor maintenance. if pads and rotors and drums and often slide pins are all disposable then why do extra to keep them clean and lubricated? Then it’s just a step away before components line the callipers and master cylinder are disposable or at least replaceable. or the dreaded “I’ll replace them now and rebuild my old ones” lie that we all often say and never follow through with, I’ve never rebuilt a calliper with new seals in my life. And once you get to that point then why maintain cables? (Have a car I’m fixing to sell that’s taking a while and I put new parking brake cables on it and only tested them and adjusted them never used the vehicle and only moved it once to store and again to work on the transmission and the cables were already seizing up after not being on and sitting for nearly a year (at least half a year) and being applied for about a month, if they can fail that quickly and with that little use what’s the point in doing much of anything for them? And now that we’re at a point where $40-100 cables are disposable then we circle back to callipers being even more likely to be seen as disposable…
I would take all of my vehicles to you for repair. You really know your stuff. I was a diesel mechanic many years ago. I can can still appreciate your passion for the profession.
Except his piss poor brake job got him in this situation, the slide pins were seized up he claimed they were not because he could muscle them out with pliers, thats the most ridicilous thing ive ever heard. Also tons of fluid leaks like Toyota said.
@@NjoyMoney He didn’t say they weren’t seized. And he said he didn’t do the brake job on this car.
@@NjoyMoney Apparently you have a listening and comprehension problem. The dealer said the valve cover was leaking(it wasn't). They also said the caliper was locked up(it wasn't). And they wanted to replace good calipers and hoses with new. Also, he, specifically didn't know if he did the brake job. Facts matter and shilling for dealerships makes you look silly at best.
Emergency brake drum on four wheel disc brakes, rusted common to clean during any brake repairs as for pin’s they also should be cleaned and lubricated with high temp grease . Great diagnosis an fix
But not if you get his coworker who did a terrible job on those brakes to begin with! That guy never pulled and checked the slide pins!!! Who knows where else he slacked off!
I appreciate your work. Commercial electrician and foreman for almost 40 years here. Believe me when I say it's hard to find good, honest, smart mechanics, be it auto, electrical, plumbing, etc
I’ve been an Asian import technician for almost 30 years and dealerships bashing independent shops and independent shops bashing dealerships is a story as old as time. I got my start, and initial training, in dealerships. I guess I stayed at dealerships for roughly ten years and decided to leave when dealerships decided to open their shops on Saturday. I have a life outside of work and I personally think that if I give myself to my job five days out of seven I’ve been more than generous with my time. I’ve never regretted leaving the dealership life and I’ve learned far more about being a better technician in the independent world.
I’ve seen my share of crooked scumbags in the dealerships. All they are capable of doing is repetitive maintenance work. Give them a heavy diagnostic job and they piss and moan about someone else getting all the “gravy” work. I’ve also seen some real losers in independent shops too. They take no pride in their work and slap cheap garbage parts on cars.
I left the dealerships and went to work for an independent shop that specialized in Asian cars. The owner was there every day running things to insure that the work was done right and no shady stuff was going on. We installed the exact same parts that the dealerships used and in some cases better parts.
A mechanic with character is going to do good work regardless of who his employer is. We actually had several dealerships sending us work that they couldn’t do from time to time.
@@RepentandbelieveinJesusChrist holy sheepshit, you must have drank all the koolaid.
I too have dealership experience, the problem is up front in service advisors, they are paid commission, they sell sell sell, on many items that are not needed, as long as customers agree and pay, they keep on selling.
@No Name same place you learned reading comprehension.
@@prevost8686 Since you have been in both places I would hope you would have recognized the fundamental difference .... as a dealer tech you only get paid to replace parts, not diagnose problems. As a heavy repair tech I got every kind of weird noise, irregular performance known to mankind and they took a long time to sort out root causes. I left dealers because I was not compensated fairly for this time. Independent shops usually charge hourly rates to diagnose weird problems like electrical for example. Also independant shops tend to focus on routine repairs that they can stand behind and make money. Dealers techs are stuck trying to make customers happy on something thier dealership sold to a customer. They can't say no if a vehicle they sold isn't meeting customer expectations the techs have to try and fix it. So I see lots of advantages being independent. Only issue is dealer techs used to be thought of as more skilled, I think that's unfair. At end of the day, we all want the best paycheck we can get, hopefully without killing ourselves so I respect anyone who has figured out how to do that without ripping people off.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍😎😎😎😎
I love it so far. Too many people in business as a whole are more interested in fixing the blame on someone instead of fixing the problem. You are a wise man Ray and defy the mechanic stereotype.
Whenever I do my brakes, I clean everything from top to bottom. This honestly just looks like an accumulation of lazy brake jobs comeback. Glad you took care of it for them.
Yeah. When the parking brake drum is rusted up I usually just go ahead and run a light turn on them while the rotor is already on the lathe. It’s better to take that little bit of extra time up front and not have it come back with a squeal or other noise down the road. When you make a habit out of taking care of the finer details it can be done very quick and efficiently.
Every time I do brakes I change pads rotors shoes drums whatever it has. When it comes to rotors like that, that have the e-brake in them. I change everything but the pads to the e-brake. The reason I don't change the E brake pads is there only there to hold the car. The reason I replaced everything is your rotor should be turned every time you change your pads or shoes. Me personally I'm not a fan of it due to the fact that you're removing metal and making the rotor thinner more susceptible to heat and warping. If you buy new ones they usually come with the 2-year warranty and you can warranty them out every time you replace your pads. But that is only if you do it yourself. If you take it to a shop it will cost you and you're definitely not getting that warranty. The only thing that I do not replace is the slide pins. I clean them and put them back in. Unless they look damaged and if any bolt looks damaged I replace it.
@@Jpilgrim30 I can't yet speak for how effective it may be, but, in my drum-in-hat cars I make a habit of every so often to lightly run the parking brake while driving, not enough to break anything, maybe 1.5 seconds at 45mph every few k-miles, just runs the pads over the drum to keep it clean. sure, it might make me have to change them out one day but there have been no noises from rust build up and the parking brake still holds very well.
Also looks like the owner doesn't use the park brake.
@@partymanau At least owner visibly does not _maintain_ their parking brake by "running 'em rustfree" every other month. Most people do not even know what kinda parts/systems they have within their brakes, let alone understand how to properly use those to make sure everything stays in working order. Manuals do not explain such things anymore, and in times of leasing, warranties and "customer protection" jurisdiction instead of accountability of the user, nobody does even care to understand what they are using, because knowledge and responsibility are no longer part of owning a car (or any other technical device)
It’s good to see other people be as detail oriented as I was when I worked on cars! Keep up the good work!
When I worked at a shop that was just me and the owner we got cars in all the time that had $1,xxx estimates from our local dealerships. We’d bring them in and inspect them and they would usually maybe need one thing on the list and save the customer $700+ in unneeded repairs. The owner kept each estimate people brought in from the dealers and had a filing cabinet full of them!
Your a great mechanic. Been in the business 30 years. Would hire you in a heartbeat. Great content and great job! Plus your funny and don't drop f-bombs so customers can hear it.
First thing out of his mouth, MY SHOP did the brakes, they put pads on and did not resurface the rotors OR grease the glides, this IS BASIC MAINTENANCE, and should have been done the first time, he did not do a repair for free, he re-did the job properly...a good mechanic would NEVER run a shop where shit like that is allowed to happeen...get it!!! (yes HE did the job right, and acted like the dealershiop was wrong about them,(. THEY were not), although to be fair, the dealership woyuld have done as lousy a job as well. I do not know why poeple want to believe these assholes whern they get on here and try to trash others over thier own mistakes. (yes, he shot the video, but critical thinking appllied would have shown a decent mechanic that all these people are idiots, and this manager, is just trying to cover for his guys who clearly fucked up. (Yes, HE does the job right, but when the heck do you get the manager work on your car, when the shop messes up, and I for one would rather have it done RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!!)
Especially when you don’t know when to use your and you’re 😂
@@videogamefreak221122
You forgot the punctuation at the end of your sentence. A laughing emoji doesn't count.
@@notahotshot If this was formal speech, I for sure would include it. However, this is a fucking CZcams comment section, that is hardly comparable to not knowing the basic vocabulary of the English language.
@@pokefan5022unless I missed it Ray was not sure who did the original brake job. May be premature to say he didn’t do it right the first time.
Loving this channel. When we send our cars to be serviced or repaired, we get sent a video by the mechanic doing the work. He films any areas that are problematic and explains what's going on. Then, if repairs are needed, they call us and ask permission and give us an estimate. I love that approach. They also vacuum and wash the car before we pick it up for free.
Sounds good. Where is this shop Blueblob?
@@TheChaztor I live in Denmark. We use a certified Renault mechanic in the the city of Ringsted. Local to us, but probably not to you. :)
@@daddymarkram No not local at all but sometimes good service is worth the trip. 8P
Our local Mazda place does the same. Top notch place. I took my moms new Mazda in for a popping noise in the door. As it was still under warranty, I didn’t even look at it. The service writer walked out with a wrench in his hand and tightened a bolt on the hinge. He said, “It happens to almost all of them. Now you know what to do when it happens again. Have a nice day.” He never even wrote anything down.
@@stevewhiting556 m
As a service professional in a different-but-not-so-different service profession, I really connected with and appreciated the wisdom of your words in the opening minutes of this video. It's something I'm still working on. Thank you, good sir.
You're videos are informative and it's nice to see an honest mechanic who knows what he's doing.... Thanks....
I like the fact that you perfectly describe the importance of brake pin slider grease!! Very thorough brake inspection performed like the dealership should have done!!
After what you said at the beginning, I realized how deeply I love and embrace the diagnostic process. I develop software, and the same objectivity and discipline is required to look at all of the things when debugging any system issue or designing new solutions. One has to leave "not my code" at the door to do it well. Love the vids, keep up the good work!
As a software developer, I have walked into more than one meeting noting that it's good I'm there, because if something doesn't work it's likely a bug I'm responsible for. It tends to help with the rest of the meeting because everyone will not spend their time either dodging or doing their best to point fingers and we can instead focus on what works and what doesn't work and what expectations the customer has.
Rick what type of software are you working on. I may have a proposal for you
Totally agree with your approach. Just been stuffed by a repair centre. Had a repair carried out - no complaints, good job, gave positive feedback. I noted there was some damage to the alloy rim, so whilst I was booking it in for further work I asked if they had seen the damage before carrying out the repair - the answer was not what I expected.
A full on aggressive response, including suggesting I was attempting to lay the blame on them to get the alloy refurbished. I was polite and non-threatening in my approach, certainly accused them of nothing, I was taken aback and as a result needless to say I cancelled the booking and walked away - their loss given it would have been around £700 in their kitty!.
i had my winter wheels changed and they nicked my allow rims twice. thats not fixable tho is it
I have a very high appreciation for people that take pride in their work, perform careful and thoughtful examination.
Really hate stealerships. Far too often they have no work ethic, no moral ethic to seek the truth, just a drive to make money at all costs.
Love your approach and thank you for sharing the video.
I took my old (‘89)F250 into the local stealership to have the blinker light switch replaced. Three weeks later, or perhaps more, it was finally done. It was my property gardening truck, which I used for dirt hauling etc. It have been a snow plow at Lake Tahoe in its earlier life. Being a sea level kinda guy when I found out what a REAL four wheel drive could do I was smitten. I came out of the Super Market at the top of Kingsbury Grade, I worked nearby, and found that where I had parked on 18” of snow, was now at more like 24” and I being the only vehicle out in this weather had gotten snowplowed in on four sides. As I got in I locked the hubs and prayed I would get home. I hobby horsed my way out of the lot over and through piles of snow that would have completely stopped any but purpose built off road vehicles. Months after my blinker fix I took the backroad home from my job, driving over future roads that had been graded and then blocked off with berms. Transversing a shallow spot in the road took the right front and left rear wheel of the road and the truck just stopped. I found that my limited slip differentials were gone. Four wheel drive isn’t really worth a lot when it quits working if one wheel comes off the ground. Thanks local Ford dealer.
dealership techs aren't necessarily bad or bad people either, it's really the pressure from the manufacturer. they're really just doing everything by the book and playing it very safe usually, meaning if one things goes then it all goes, which is what the manufacturer training pushes for. the manufacturer doesn't want you fixing cars, they want you buying new cars. aftersales does make a lot of money so their compromise is they don't want you fixing parts, they want you buying new parts. obviously can't speak for all dealerships though, and there are some that really are rotten and can get away with it because they have the manufacturer backing. it's not always the people, it's the system.
@@cake2531 bad dealerships are bad. Bad dealership techs are bad.
I stand by what I said. I have a VERY high appreciation for people that take pride in their work, are careful, and thoughtful.
I have had dealers lie to me and lie to my friends. One of them was so bad they claimed the car was already damaged before they got it when they caved the roof in. My friend walked right up to the garage door and showed them his red paint on their door where they didn't raise the door high enough and they tried to lie about it.
I never say all dealerships or all techs, but damn if there aren't a lot of bad ones.
@@underourrock i fully agree. i've never worked in an independent shop so idk how different it is, but i'd never screw anyone over. my goal is to get the job done and i stay out of sales/service drama. i'm also not from america, so it could be a difference, especially since we're paid hourly and not fighting flat rate here and hacking jobs/bloating upsell to get paid.
@@cake2531 yeah, I think my experience says something about my particular area, and maybe in the U.S. in general as it sure seems like a wide spread problem here.
I have no idea about other countries but am very glad to hear that it might not be as big as issue there. Americans have confused work ethic with work worship.
I have repaired my own vehicles for 50 years. That said, I would appreciate your efforts completely as you are honest and considerate in your work. I haven't seen anything I would object to, nicely done !
Doesn’t look like dealer tech took anything apart as you did judging by the dirt on the bolts.
Very thorough Ray
Also shows that having a brake clean/adjust service done occasionally is money well spent
During the recession era when Jimmy Carter ruined the economy I would do this kind of maintenance on the weekend. Gas was expensive and we had high inflation. I had to work multiple part time jobs to get by. Couldn't afford a mechanic.
@@michaelvangundy226 -- wow, that all sounds like today, doesn't it?
@@twatmunro Yep, now we get about two years to find another Ronald Reagan.
@@twatmunro
Huh, yes it does. I gotta go, I'm working on the wife's car. Can't afford to drive my truck.
@@michaelvangundy226 Get off the Russian propaganda wagon. The Arab oil embargo of 1973 (Nixon) and the fall of the Shaw of Iran, and later the Iran-Iraq war (Carter & Reagan) drove gas prices and economic change more than the mostly ineffective Jimmy Carter. Carter and Reagan did upset a lot of people when they phased out the Nixon era price controls on domestic oil.
Very nice work Ray, as a car owner, it is quite painful to go to the garage, so it is very nice to have a service station that looks after your concerns and puts out quality work. In that scenario you have trust, and that is what the owner appreciates. Good to see tradesmen who takes their work seriously, bravo sir!
I was in for a slow tire leak, shop said I needed a break job. I said I knew, I heard the screech the last 2 years, and how much to do the front as I knew the back were like new. I was told they only do complete vehicle break jobs and was quoted some where above $1500:00 Canadian. I declined and did the job myself for $28:00 Canadian.
This was on my daily driver, a 28 year old car.
How’s that for saving the environment and the green house gas.
What I enjoy most in these videos is No.1, his professionalism, No.2, his work ethic and No.3, his thoroughness...and let's not forget his sense of humor!
Except he did a piss poor brake job and it came back to hunt him. Slide pins were seized, thats why he had to muscle them out with pliers. Toyota didnt say valve cover leak either, they said fluid leaks... He is not honest at all
Ray, was a pleasure to have met you. Only wish I had the time to leave my 06’ Highlander with you. Hopefully, the timing belt and the other squealing belt hangs in there till I get back home up north. But, now that I know where you are, the next time I’m in FLA, ill make an appt to have you do any work I need. Your videos are awesome, keep em’ coming.
if i replaced every brake/gas line with rust on it, I would be working until the end of time......I really don't like the mentality of the dealers but the mechanics just do what the shop tells them to look for repairing.......replacing calipers would have fixed the issue but caliper pins or just cleaning and lubing them was way cheaper and more exact way of repair but some shops are in it for the big bucks and customers seem to believe WHATEVER the dealer tells them...great video Ray
Don't forget that some dealers are trying to get the repair costs up to "oh well that could be down payment on a new car"..
I mean, I wont mind to repair something on a car. But if the measurements gets under where I evaluate it no longer is safe to work with (Like brakes literally have nothing to brake on. As in very used pads or dics) or goes under the data that the car brand had given. Then I will replace it. If it is with new ones or used ones, that is something I will take with the dealer or customers. If not, then I refuse to work on said car. I cant live with myself to know that I had "worked" on a car that have a very high risk of being in an accident one way or an other
I mean, it is human lives we are putting at a risk. Not how much a car cost to be repaired or fixed
That's the dealership mentality. My techs would tell me, "if the slider pins are bad, the housings inside the calipers are also bad. If you only replace the pins, you are putting on a bandage and it's gonna be a comeback"
@@mh87351 That was a long time ago. Now dealerships want to make money from repairs. I remember when the service department was supposed to pay the bills only and all profit came from car sales. Now, the service department needs to provide even more profit than car sales.
@@willpina Service nets 3 times what sales does.
Absolutely wonderful diagnosis. Thank you for the learning experience.
caliper drop at 19:29 breaks my heart, AND the crusty rubber.
What everyone doesn't know is that putting tension on healthy brake hoses rarely results in any immediate damage.
Hose bending hurt ne more
Hats off to you Ray on your stated approach to this - grey area - no one taking ownership of customers issue - you stepped up - hats off to you - in the short term will cost business your charge out labour rate - but longer-term sets the standard - what do they say integrity is what you do whilst no one is watching
A Honda dealer tried this with my wife; (in fact all of them do this when they run into a Honda brought in by un-knowledgeable people who come in with an older/high mileage car.
My wife brought in her odyssey at the time with about 120K miles, nothing wrong with it, and they returned her a checklist of things wrong that totaled $5K. Now the thing wasn't worth $5K, so she called me and asked what to do, I told her to bring the list home. And a lot of things looked pretty scary, broken suspension, failed steering components. They even had pictures in the estimate of tie-rod ends broken, collapsed shocks... it looked pretty bad
I told her it was nonsense, but she didn't quite believe me with the "how could they just lie if they have pictures", so I told her to take it to the local guy and he looked it over and laughed and said "nothing is wrong with the car" and didn't even charge us anything. So I took the estimate back to the Honda dealer, and I said, what do these pictures mean? Did you actually take a picture of the tie-rod? "No sir, that's a picture of what it looks like when it breaks". I see.
A few weeks later, friends of ours got the same treatment (we should have warned them). They walked out after buying a new car (and getting nothing for the trade-in). So you understand why dealers are eager to drive business both ways... either you spend $5K fixing something that doesn't need to be fixed, or they sell you a new car.
That’s why, when you find an honest repair shop, you hang on to it and tell all of your family/friends about it.
Brake pads. They show you a set that are worn thin. I told them no, I would do that myself. Them pads must have been a magical pads as I drove another 50k miles on the pads. When I changed the pads there was more pad on it than what the dealer showed me.
Another issue was a CV axel. The dealer wanted to change the new one I had installed and a trans axel service. The next trip to the dealer it wasn't an issue.
This is exactly why people call them stealerships.
Really sucks to have that experience.
It took 1.5 years to lemon law a brand new car that a dealer totaled at least 28 visits (in the carfax) for issues that wouldn't resolve.
@@jamesupton143 And the thing about brakes is they're the easiest job in the shop, even replacing the rotors, its' a 30 minute job tops.
@@KS-xo3oh Way to assume the car wasn't taken care of til that point. It's a tech's job to fix problems that are presented to be fixed, not find items to markup to the customer.
I had this happen to me recently. Went to another shop first and they were perplexed, "nothing needs work," they said. Filed a complaint with corporate and the GM was really freaked. He went through the inspection again with me and confirmed that the first guy was wayy off, like $900 off. Never going there again.
I usually do my brakes myself but I always clean my slide pins and lubricate the areas my brake discs slide up and down on. It's a good practice to do and gives me more confidence knowing that they are done right the first time. I can understand a business only doing what was requested of them but sometimes this is the type of stuff I try to avoid.
Always tricky when another shop gets involved, taking what the customer says with a "grain of salt" as too what they were told. I agree with another comment below, looks like that Yoda has been in some water or they like to go off roading, regardless a simple brake service is all that is needed. My main issue is with the other shop saying it needs front calipers. CLASSIC FLAT RATE issue again. If they would have sold that job they would have knowingly done it without a conscious which is total bullshit and continues to give our industry a bad wrap. Good job Ray.
Automatic Car Washes pressurize water into every crack and crevice
Fyi, its spelled "giving a bad rap", understandable mistake if you've only heard it. Fyi the word is a shortening of rapport, which is a borrowed french word.
Especially the dealerships... should know there stuff but most don't have a clue
@@johnnawrocki4079 the dealer found a grind noise and oil leak and stuck caliper . Same as ray did. So wtf are you saying
Im glad our shop has digital report sent to customer and can be review anytime... all inspection done with pictures, so all doubt and accusation by customer, can be stop right away
They way you delivered your response on being objective to a vehicle makes me as a dealer tech feel great about non dealer techs, I feel some shops hold a higher standard for workmanship and addressing all issues whatever they may be in a mind set of yours is very good for many young dealer techs, I just hit my 12 years at shop and this makes me miss the younger years with less stress
Dealers are the absolute worst mechanics to bring a car too. The entire car industry is built so dealerships have PLENTY to write up, legitimate or not. Makes people literally hate dealships for service.
I agree Ray. Being objective helps a ton even on vehicle you have worked on makes you think clearer and do a better job for the customer @Rainman Ray's Repairs
I have a RAV4 and seizing slide pins has been an issue. Every spring/fall when switching tires I pull the pins, clean and lube, and take a wire brush to the brake sliders as well.
This one must vacation up north in winter each year or it used to be a northern vehicle. We don't have that problem with the rotor rubbing on the backing plate because they are usually rusted away!
No backing plate, no problem!
Awesome job Ray! Every single dealer I've ever dealt with has tried to tell me about failed calipers/pads/rotors with NEVER visually inspecting them (one time, the whole setup was 1 week old!).
yeah they never check it, just like cabin/engine filters. I do my brakes and calipers maintenances and replace filters every year, but they still try to upsell thoses when I go for an oil change lol.
I like the play by play and the in depth explanations. Your humor is super as well. thanks.
Good stuff, Rainman!!! The Zen of car repair!!!
Ray... I wish I could have your mentality towards these things. I can also get pretty worked up when "blamed" for something even though I know I did a good job, very hard to stay objective... but will always admit it when indeed I did something wrong even though not on purpose. That makes it hard sometimes, but on the other hand it also proves that I (still) care about doing my job.
Doing things right reminds me. Installed nice mags and tires on a pavement queen. I used tourqe sticks on the lug nuts and hand tourqed the wheel locks ( Ford 4x4). It was back a week later all lug nuts finger tight but locks still tight. Because of how I did the work the salesmen were confident in telling the owner that someone tryed to steal the wheels and there was no fault on me.All of the studs were checked as a courtesy and the lug nuts re tightened. Because I always took care the salesmen would ask for me only to do tire rotations, Oil changes etc
You did a great job with the way you explained the feeling mechanics can get from a “come back” personally I have seen a lot of it in my years of working in shops and it happens to everyone, with it comes wisdom.
Nah, most mechanics couldn't care less. They don't care about the work that they do, and they don't care if it's a come-back. They enjoy it when you have to bring the vehicle back, as they get a second chance to gouge you.
Because of the rigours of winter, I have always recommended to my customers to get brakes checked and serviced every 6 months or in the spring at the least to keep everything working smoothly. It is very important for callipers that slide in the bracket since the weather is constantly attacking the slider surface. I also always used anti-seize on the bolts, anti-rattle on the pads and proper slider lube.
On drum-brake vehicles, there were seized adjusters and broken parking brake auto-adjusters to deal with. We still have those issues with the parking brakes in the rear rotors.
What is the proper slider lube? The sliders in the film seem to have white lithium paste. I always thought silicon grease to be best if you did not get it on the rotors.
@@4423422 Permatex makes a good silicone ceramic lube. Most automotive chemical and brake companies (CRC, Raybestos, Permatex, etc.) have a high-temp, corrosion-resistant, brake specific lube.
Extremely instructive. Thank you
Having lived and worked as a mechanic for decades in the New England Rust Belt, where the Dept. of Trans. helpfully dumps staggeringly vast amounts of salt and brine on the roads, specifically to wreck your car, I have come up with two solutions.
For rotor-type parts, where you can take the part off the car, I put it into a tank with a water solution of washing soda (similar to baking soda, but not quite). Then apply a DC current to the part with one clamp (the part is suspended with a rod, you clamp on the rod, the current flows to the part, or you can clamp to part of the part that is left clear of the water), the other terminal clamped to a sheet of metal the bottom end of which is immersed into the tank. Now you run the current and the rust will be reverted back into metal. I use a hefty battery charger, set it on 40 amps, it takes a while but eventually the part is cleaned up. If you have a welding machine with DC output then that would go much faster.
Once you get the part cleaned up, then I spray the non-contact areas with high-temperature paint. And then I paint the heads of all the bolts, and the entire caliper housing, so you have no rust going forward.
When installing new parking brake shoes, I paint all surfaces except the contact pads, nice coat of anti-rust primer, that is typically good for a decade of service. Again, no rust.
Yes, it takes me two days to do one axle, but when done, I don't have these rust problems, so in my view, that makes it worthwhile.
Every time I take something apart, all the hardware and the part itself is carefully painted and color-coded. Matching bolts have the heads painted red, another pair in Yellow, another in Green. The paint scheme tells you where it goes, and also tells you that that part of the car was already worked on.
And don't forget spray-primer, then undercoat paint, on the underside panels. All my cars are over 20 years, run fine, rust free. Sure it's work, but then again, I don't have to make car payments any more, either. Cheers to all.
Damn that sounds a really effective system, I envy the effort you're willing to put in and the free time you have :D
That's a very valid way to do it but wow, quite a bit of effort you put into it.
Congratulations for the 300k subs!
I feel the same way about the customers. I am dealing with customers regularly, but I always tel them it was a used car when it came in, it’s still a used car when I’m done, just trying to make it as good as it can be.
But can’t do my job well without being objective. Treat everything as it’s own issue, even if it’s coming back for something that’s like the original complaint.
Got chewed out by my boss for doing that on several occasions. At one point I flat out recommended the customer to sell her car because a 2003 Dodge Avenger with over 200k on the clock wasn't worth the $3-4k of service they were trying to sell her. My access to customers was severely limited after that and I don't work there anymore.
You are very "Articulate", very well done!
Your professionalism is above and beyond...
You should have no problem keeping the customer happy and coming back for future work.
✌️ 😎
Blessings from Georgia, USA 🙏
All my years in the business, you communicated that well
Appreciate your honesty Ray wish all mechanics were like you.
He is not honest, he says slide pins are not stuck or seized because you can pull them out with pliers, thats an absolute joke
@@NjoyMoney if you can pull them out with pliers the hydraulic system will work fine, also he did say they were stiff and recommended replacing them
Great videos Ray. . Can you remind people to thoroughly clean the caliper slide pin bore and rubber grommet before reassembly
as it is sometimes overlooked. Keep up your great work.
I’ve been a mechanic for42 years your doing a great job keep up the great work I wouldn’t mind working in the bay next to you I believe that you are honest 😇😎🥊keep up the great job, Thanks
Thanks, you have rekindled my interest in auto repair, getting back into it. I have the greasy nails and cut, bruised hands to prove it. I really thought I had lost it for good with my older age, but I got more done in the last month than I thought I ever thought. I can still hack it!!
You're only as good as your last job, this is one to watch for all those shops that don't take care of their customers. Quality job there Ray as always 👍
Ray, you have unknowingly helped me. Did my front breaks yesterday (Watching these vids have helped with my confidence in doing things like breaks) and was getting that same chuffing noise as those breaks. As soon as you mentioned the backing plate, it clicked. Ah, I didn't check that. Sure enough, that was the issue.
Keep up the lords word. Love your content, even if I tend to be listening in the car and can't get to the Like button to Tappy Tap it all the time
Breaks - My employer allows me to have 2 breaks per shift.
Brakes - Brakes are used to stop a vehicle.
Not being critical. Since you're now doing much of your own repair and maintenance work, I figured you'd like to know.
@@markmills344 - Also, repairing cars in not "The Lord's Word".
Always educational and informative.
Love watching your work when I'm chilling after work. I see stuff like this all the time with new customers coming from dealer or other shops. No wonder mechanics are often played as the shifty devious type in movies and shows.
That said I myself wouldn't have ordered new slide pins for the rear. Doesn't make sense with used rusty calipers and brackets. Plus they are easy to clean with a bench grinder wire brush (yes I know once the coating is off they don't last as long but old used caliper bracket so why not), and once that rubber damper on one of the pins swells enough I just toss it. Never felt any vibration once it was tossed myself, and never had a complaint from a customer. Another quick trick is if the boots are swelled up, I take a drill and bore out some of the rubber. I know it sounds backyard'ish but when people are waiting and impatient, its a quick fix and works well. Again, when dealing with a set of calipers and brackets that are up there in mileage, its not really a bad idea.
I also often clean out backing plates and drum and rotor surfaces of rust. After 20 plus years in the industry I learned I should've been wearing a good mask for the rust dust that flies off. I invested in proper masks last few years. Hope you're protecting your lungs bro. When you're young and strong feels like a joke but it can catch up with you.
Keep up the awesome videos. Appreciate your honesty and dedication in our profession.
that ones thing im gonna buy for personal ware if i end up in car matince or something if i have to deal with a dust of sorts i do got alergies so im planning on it but im deffintly getting a good mask for work. :P i know my lungs are not happy with things already so if i ever did get into that kind of work a painters mask with a good filter is what im gonna get
This happened to me 3 weeks ago. Went to the dealership for an inspection and they quoted $600 for calipers, rotors , and pads. Said no thanks, they called back lowering it to $400 for 1 caliper. I asked if it was made of solid gold and declined all service. Took it to my known good mechanic, absolutely NOTHING was wrong. Pads were 70% worn so we decided to do them while he was in there. You'd think in a place that requires inspections there would be a way to report false failed inspections but there isn't.
600 for calipers rotors and pads isn't a bad deal, had you needed all that.
My local dealership claims to not have commissioned staff, but they have quarterly sales targets to be met in order for staff to have bonuses. So it's basically the same thing as commissions - the staff are rewarded for selling the most repairs possible.
@@Maroco918 not when we had gotten brand new tires less than 4 months previously and everything was inspected at that time. We keep up on all preventive maintenance on our cars. So when suddenly a lot is wrong we get suspicious.
@@gaillankford9339 that's why I said, had you actually needed it. IF it was needed, that's a decent price. I agree on the sketchy ness of it
Wait so what type of inspection were you having done? A personal inspection as to the health of the vehicle? Or was it a state inspection for the license plate tags inspection? If it was the state tags you can report it to the state and if the state deems it worthy they will revoke their license to do inspections costing that company thousands of lost revenue.
Great video Ray. I am very pleased to see that you take no nonsense from your tools or components. These things need to be firmly reprimanded when they disobey orders otherwise you will finish up with the whole car rebelling against you...and that would be bad . Cheers from Australia
As ususal wife and I enjoy your video, no matter what you are doing. We run a small business caring for folks cars, and do all sorts of jobs on all sorts of cars. When watching todays video it seems at the previous guy did not get really to the point when doing the brake job. If we do a brake job it usually lasts at least 3 years before you need to do it over again. Thank you so much, and all our love and admiration to you, Ray! Greetings from Sweden!
The 1 thing in life that worries me is having a dry slider !
I had no idea there was a special tool for compressing brake calipers. I always just used a c-clamp. The c-clamp works though, so I don't think I'll be running out to buy a specialty tool. Seriously though, this was a LOT of work. I hope you charged the customer for at least some of it. As a DIY, that would have taken me all day and probably late into the night.
I took interest to the ratcheting tool he used and did an Amazon search myself. Half the time I need to use an old pad as a backstop. There is one that uses 3/8 drive ratchet tip and one finger against one of the dual pistons. This one pushes back on duals. Sometimes you force one side in and the other side pops out. I was always into the South Main Auto tool episodes. That Big Nasty Chicago Pneumatic CP714 took out wheel bearings I didn't have room for 5 lb hammers.
Solid advice at the start there bro. Getting worked up over other people's usage of a machine you fixed is something I feel in a complete different field - software engineering. Thanks for the reminder that it's not all about the engineer!
Wow, Ray, you are a thorough mechanic! Good work, my friend!
Great customer service the issue was handled well! I can't say I blame the dealer too much. I've worked at a Toyota dealer and f I had seen oil residue around the valve covers and inspected the calipers I'd have probably recommended the same based on the rusted condition. Slide pins sticking are unpredictable as to weather they're gonna come out or not when corrosion is involved and if they are actually stuck a caliper would be needed. That said the rear axle braking system was completely overlooked and servicing the front wouldn't have resolved the braking noise and it's baffling that it wasn't mentioned in the estimate at all. For those performing brake services Permatex 24125 Extreme Ceramic Brake Grease is a great product that stays on the slide pins usually until the pads are needed again even in rust prone conditions. The temperature rating is really high (3000*F) so the grease tends to degrade at a much slower rate than generic or even OE Toyota brake grease (3-400*F).
Umm, you're supposed to use Permatex 80653 on slider pins, not the purple stuff, that will swell up the rubber.
@@Pepe-dq2ib yeah for real
Good job Ray. Good Customer service these days is far and few between with auto shops.
I do mobile auto repair on a part-time basis. I've seen so many examples of dealerships and big chain shops trying to rip people off. On one similar to this, they told the person they needed a new pair of calipers and pads and rotors on all four wheels. They didn't need any of that. A bent brake clip and some dirt around the brake pads on one wheel was causing the noise. I cleaned it up and they were on their way. The shop was trying to get them for $1,300 in repairs.
Wow. This video is a year old and I can hear such a huge difference in your voice. Even though you were fun & entertaining back then, you are so. much. happier. now! So happy for you.
Its all in the little detail things...like the rust on the e brake drum area and caliper slide pins. Redoing the valve covers for the reasons you stated is spot on reasoning !! These are the kind of things that make your workmanship stand out in the best way to me Ray:-) I agree also about the dealer just Xing things in one shot vs doing it as each thing was looked at...if in fact it truly was looked at by the dealer fully.
I've had items marked "require immediate attention" just because THEY hadn't done the work and their book says to do it every x miles. One item was the serpentine belt that I'd replaced a few months earlier. It still looked brand new. I think I even had the letters pointing the right way!
I think the ratcheting caliper depressor is my favorite tool I own. So much better than those crank ones with the little knobs that kill your hands.
You can do that yourself id you have a C-clamp to depress the brake caliper my friend.
I’m as mechanical as a three toed sloths. That being said I really enjoyed your work. I love the little things that you do the phone ring and you add a sound . Dropping something and you say gravity. Just love watching you.
Well done video. Hopefully your customer saw this video and the thorough job you did!
Dealers like to bash the other shops. Try to keep people coming to the dealer. I've heard - "If a mechanic is any good they work for a dealer." Yet I've had some crappy work done by a dealer.
In reality - a private shop has to survive on it's good reputation --- the dealers have service writers who run patterns on you so you can't get a straight answer. Politicians, pimps and car dealerships are the scum of the earth designed to hire the criminally insane, mentally incompetent and blood sucking leeches of society.
Huge positive to you on the caliper pins. They appear to have the high temp silicone grease on them. It is imperative to use that grease even though it’s expensive.
Sil-Glyde FTW! I always keep a few tubes on hand.
I like his interactions. It’s quite informative and engaging/entertaining! Thanks!💝
great content as usual ray 👍 only suggestion i would have is to wear a face mask when grinding all that rust off most of the stuff in it is harmless but certain elements like carbon and silica can cause real problems down the line.
recommended unless you have a medical exemption.😃
How do you know he wasent wearing a mask? I never saw his face the entire video..
@@Z-Ack you could hear and understand his unmuffled words
@@waynesitarz424 That's such a cheap copout. Wonder if they also use that for seatbelts.
Looking at this. I'd be wondering if the customer would ever want to take their car anywhere else. Frankly, looks to me like you've done everything that's reasonable to do, even then from your past videos, I know you'd fire the parts cannon if it was appropriate to do so.
my old truck has rust like this. a few times per year I spray the under side with old oil to great slow down rust
I like how you say to keep your emotions out and just look at it for what it is. Let the parts speak for themselves and go from there.
with all of that bright coloured rust it;s like that car has been stood in a flood.
That USA tool truck is really a mechanic's 'Victoria's Secret'.
i visited friends in upstate new york recently and they told me they were going on a road trip so bought new tires and had a total brake job done at a local shop.a fairly new nissan rogue with low miles. the price of tires and brakes was $1800. my friend asked me if i could look at her new tires because she had reservations that they were infact brand new because they looked dirty. i checked the tires and brakes and sadly had to inform them that their new tires were good but used and their brakes were not even touched.
100% agree with your objective approach. I do the same thing in software development and I believe it helps me stay professional and keep my judgement from being clouded.
If it’s a come back you should feel directly responsible 😂 Damn near tears both caliper slide pin boots 🤦🏼♂️
Hey Ray, be careful when using chrome sockets with impact drivers. Light duty use is probably ok but heavy duty use can shatter the chrome sockets sending shrapnel across the shop. 🤔
"But everybody does it!", says everybody who's doing it, which is almost everybody. But yes, when it's a problem, it's a problem.
Or deep into your finger--jamming the knuckle joint. Blew up a 14mm deep socket. 😭
I saw a chrome socket shatter on an impact wrench once….. Destruction that only man kind knows…
@@frankthespank Out on the road today, I saw a Harbor Freight sticker on a Cadillac.
@@theundergroundlairofthesqu9261 A little voice inside my head said, "Don't look back. You can never look back"
I purchased one of the big rivet guns years ago and I think I used it maybe twice. Ford external door handles were held in place with the large rivets
Yes you did communicate properly. Love your videos.
Like watching your videos. Just want to let you know. The reason the rear drums are so rusty is because the customer doesn’t use the parking break handle. Along with the rotor rust is the actual pull cable rusting in its housing. This happens a lot with cars that rust. You might have solved the noise problem but you should actually pulled the parking brake handle to make sure that the cable actually releases when let off. Otherwise the customer will lock up their back brakes the first time they go to use them. Believe me, I seen this happen.
It looked to me that the customer does not use the park brake at all, I'm guessing that the vehicle has an auto transmission and they just put it in park. That whole drum was rusty, and did not appear to have been used for braking, so the rust just builds up. I thought that most slide pins had some lube on them, just looked old and dried up somewhat.
I have done many brake jobs on Toyotas and have never had good results without using Genuine Toyota parts. By many I mean my family has owned Toyotas for 25 years and we have bought more than I could count. It seems everything out there in the aftermarket world rusts like crazy and creates issues like described in this video. I do live in the rust belt so that doesn't help. I found that you can haggle with the dealer and they will discount the price for parts and get them for just a bit higher than aftermarket. I am a DIYer when it comes to fixing cars unless the job becomes too big for my driveway. Just some food for thought.
Aftermarket parts use a ton of filler to keep the prices down. They’re all junk that stupid people buy just to need replacement sooner costing them more in the long term. But hey, cheap people are extremely profitable 🤫
@@christophervanzetta what is filler
I had a subaru one time, my own personal subaru and the pins were so bad that I had to use a torch and the pin bent on the way out. I learned to lube the pin any time I take a caliber off. And I use ceramic grease at least on the front pins. It handles the heat well.
Nice, Sarasota. Good to know there's a good shop in town.
How can so much rust accumulate? I suspect this car was driven through or has been stablnding in water.
How else could water even get into(!) those front caliper pistons? And into the parking brake drums?
That said, the rear pads looked new but those slide pins were dry.
Good thing you checken and serviced all of them.
My thoughts exactly. But those pins and missing grommets are proof that the pins were never lubed or serviced.
It’s Florida. I see a lot of videos of people in Florida backing their rear tires into salt water when launching their boats.
You should come visit us up in the salt belt, have a look at the vehicles up here! Go watch South Main Auto channel on CZcams, it will give you the idea, lol
Anything steel that gets real hot will rust as it naturally absorbs moisture from the humid air when cooling. Anywhere near the ocean or up north accelerates things and those caliper slide pins are notorious for sticking. He should have cleaned out the receivers before installing new pins.
Its humid and hot in florida. It rains a lot.