Rowing Machine Resistance Explained | Drag Factor
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- čas přidán 31. 01. 2021
- Hello CZcamsrs! Welcome to another episode! As you can tell from the title of the video, we are talking about the drag factor, or resistance of the rowing machine, which is best for you and what it all means.
The most asked questions I get asked are all relating to drag factor or resistance in some way. What drag factor do you use? How do you change the drag factor? What drag factor is best for sprints? For long rows? The list goes on and hopefully today I can go over what the drag factor on the rowing machine really is and can clear some things up.
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#yamsquad #rowing - Sport
So if I’m getting this correct, it’s similar to driving a car and if you stop or the slower you going to a junction then the more force on the gas pedal is needed to speed up again, Whereas if you can time it right you can maintain a steadier pace.
I wouldn't quite use that example but I can see where you're coming from. In a car, assuming you're on a flat surface the force on the pedal will increase the acceleration. It doesn't increase the speed the harder you push it down.
With the erg, with a high resistance. The first few strokes will be "harder" and there will be more air hitting the fan so it will slow down faster so therefore every stroke you need to start it up from a slower speed. When the resistance is lower, the fan is easier to speed up and will continue to move for a longer time.
It can feel harder on higher resistance and easier on lower but the speeds produced don't necessarily correlate to higher resistance higher speed.
I hope that helps!
@@CameronBuchan thank you for this👍. I’ve just started at a gym using both the ski and rowing machines. I’ve been setting it to level 10 and managed to get to 2k in 10 minutes, but next time I go I’m going to set it to about level 5-6👍. I searched everywhere for information like this. 😁
@@garethparry6673 awesome enjoy!
Definitely keen to hear your erg cleaning/maintenance tips, please. 👍🏼
Explanation from an engineer who rows:
The fan + cage is an air pump that pumps from the inside to the outside. The more air its pumping, the more power it needs (from the rower). If you dont let the air get into the pump, then it wont need as much power to keep spinning. Behind the pump is basically a system to measure the power from the rower trying to turn the fan. Your 500m split is then calculated from that power. In linear motion, Power = speed * force. If you set the resistance low (low force) you need high speed for the same power, and of course its hard pull back on the rower really fast. Therefore, at low resistance, speed is the limiting factor. At high resistance, you have alot of force and dont need as much speed to generate the same power, but the force becomes the limiting factor. Best performance point would be to find a good balance. And also important to say, this calculated 500m split is independent of the rower weight, which makes a bit unfair as on the water, a light rower would accelerate faster with the same force and also would decrease the drag on the boat, although probably small ;)
In fact now that I think about it, at low resistance, it is actually harder as higher speed means you need to put in more energy to move your body up and down the slide and a little less goes into spinning the fan.
Thanks Frank! Exactly right. As you said, a middle ground and finding what suits the individual should work best!
Thank you Cameron and Frank. A long standing marvel revealed for me. As a cyclist using a Powermeter I now get it in terms of cadence and applied force. Also there we need to find our sweet spot for best efficiency which is around 90 rpm for me 👍
Great video -- my advice (like anybody wants that) is to just keep experimenting and eventually you'll get there. A maintenance video would be AWESOME.
Cameron truly the best explanation of what DF and Damper settings are. As soon as you bring in the example of rowing on the river and either getting a quick, slow or indifferent catch with differing perspectives of what each feels like you nail it to a tee why this setting is unique to the individual. Also a tidy reminder that at the end of the day it is largely down to technique, strength and fitness as the key to good times.
For years, I rowed my standard 5,000m workout with the damper set at 4. Recently, after actually investing in a C2, I performed an experiment over a two-week period, adjusting the damper from 3-7 in various increments. It was a pretty fascinating set of workout results. In the end, 3 and 7 sucked for different reasons. Turns out my 'sweet-spot' is 5.5-6, where I managed to trim almost a minute off my longstanding PB. Now I just have to learn how to actually row properly after 35 years. LOL
Best explanation of drag factor I've heard/read. Thx!
Of a number of videos I've watched talking about drag factor, this was the one that actually helped me understand what's going on. Thanks for sharing!
Awesome! Glad to have helped! #yamsquad
Cameron! This is an excellent video it’s expired thing’s perfectly. I’ve asked you a few questions now and this video answered them all, my apologies for not screening your videos prior!
Thank bud.
Glad you found it helpful!
Good explanation, I've read where drag factor can roughly be thought of as boat weight. Higher drag factor equals heavier boat. This seems to bear that out. Thanks, Stay well.
Honestly, best explanation on youtube 👍
Cheers Cam! One of the best explanations I've heard :) I don't need a maintenace video, but if you do one, please remind people to be careful not to move the balance weights!
Thanks Gordon! Very good point too! #yamsquad
Doing my Sunday morning 500s at drag factor 90, just for the fun of smashing the rate! I think you are right, it's probably too low to get the best score, but I expect the rest of the club on zoom think I am a total beast 😁
Great explanation, mate. Thanks!
Yes RE maintenance tips that would be great and THANKS - this is a great tutorial. I hear you saying around 10 minutes 2k at around 115 to 120 and 5k at around 130 to 140. That alone is very helpful!
I'll work on the maintenance video!
Like I said, I tried 115 to 120 for 2k when I was rating very high and for my PB of 549 avg rate 38. I didn't say 5k around 130 to 140 though. It really does depend on you and what you're trying to do. For most, all pieces work well with the middle ground. As long as the technique is sound!
@@CameronBuchan What is more or less your optimal stroke rate and pace for the 5k? 120 for me is damper at 4 and that would kill me just because I am not young enough to hold some crazy stroke rate for 18 minutes. I just did a PB @17:47 5k w a stroke rate at 29 per minute and damper at 5.5 (drag@145). Again, we are all clueless but fit swimmers. Chad Carvin is an ex Olympic Swimmer (took down Ian Thorp) and he is my main competition right now:)! We are envious as hell of your stroke rate of around 20 kicking out 130s - that is impossible for us!! I am going to buy a yamsquad tee shirt just because you are so motivating me to get into this......OHHH YAHHHHH!!!
Useful information. A video detailing maintenance and replacement of parts and pulleys would be great!
Hopefully I can get one up soon! #yamsquad
Keen for a maintenance video
Great Post thanks Cameron
Thanks for the video. You're right drag factor if differentfor everyone. And the other thing is that you can't cheat the machine. If you want to get faster you need give more yam.
#yamsquad
Nice explanation!
Yes please to a few tips on maintenance. Does cold air affect the erg?? More dense, slows down the fan? Just noticed the cold garage sessions are slower than the warm ones.
Love this, thank you, although it took me 5 seconds to work out what a ‘wet stack’ was 😄🏴
That was very clear !
Well explained 👍👍👍
Hi Cam, nice video! I was wondering if you have any tips or know a good ergo workout with focus on building strength. I stopped rowing this year and started coaching but I want to build some muscle and increase my strength again. I was thinking of 15x200m max power at r22 with 2 minutes rest and do this 2-3x per week.
great explanation, thanks!
Thanks for watching! #yamsquad
Thank you, very interesting. I'll be playing about with that.
Enjoy Matt! #yamsquad
When I started in 2017... it was all about the high drag... 180+
4 years and 5 million meters later... the sweet spot is 130 now (I'm 6'" @ 240 lbs)
Excelente Explicação!
Is that a concept 2 bike erg in there as well? If so what’s thoughts vs watt bike?
Thank you thank you.
Hello everybody, do you know the recalculation factor for the following case: I made in some limited time the distance of 2000 m (with the resistance setting on step 4). How many meters it will be (recalculated) if I would set the resistance to step 3? Thank you in advance for any advice :)
Cool explanation! At least some things make more sense.... What I don't like about the machine:
1. Even at the highest level, directly after the "catch" never get as high resistance as in the water.
2. Much more difficult with much more effort to adjust the vertical position of the hands than on the water....
when I used the erg for training I was taught no higher than 4 or 5 to simulate water and that 10 will just kill your back not sure if that's still valid advice ??
Awesome, great info :D
Thanks!
Would be interested in maintenance video
Cameron please try a 5k row on damper 10 setting drag factory 245-250, 27-29 spm to see how you do,, great tips though😁😁
Would feel different to normal but like I said in the video it would be me that is creating the resistance so wouldn't expect to go much slower or faster than normal at around 16 minutes
Not being a water rower I used to set my resistance level to 10 when I started indoor rowing, not because it was macho, but because for distances up to 2000m I found that I could get a better time at this level. For distances up to 5000m, 6000m, and 10000m I found that level 8 was achievable; anything less meant a poorer time. My advice to anyone wanting to know what resistance level to choose would be 1) decide on the time/distance of the piece. 2) try a high resistance (even 10), complete the piece, record your time and try to assess how hard it was. Repeat for level 1. Then try level 5 and repeat. Then try 2.5 and 7.5 levels etc and repeat. By performing this ‘binary search’ method it shouldn’t take many sessions to home in on the best resistance level for you as an individual. Note the drag factor at your optimal resistance level and that’s what you should use. As you get fitter/stronger you could repeat some of the above to find a more optimal drag factor.
Yes please re maintenance of the Concept 2.
I have at least 3 fans in my room when rowing (yeah I get hot). I wonder with pushing air around that much how much it affects the slider value...eg I have it at 6 normally but with big airflow in the room its possibly a 7, 8 or even 9 in reality...🤔 The fans aren't directly pointing at the flywheel but they must affect it...
You're right, having the air move around especially when in direction of the fan can change the drag factor. The number itself shouldn't change much when you're up and running though. Best thing to do is get the feeling you want then look at the drag factor like I showed in the video, then, regardless of the erg you use or what fans are going, you can have the same drag factor
#yamsquad #awwwyeaah
I totally understand the explanation. However, when I competed in the 2k nationals, a long time ago, i experimented during training on the resistance number. If I had it on 10, I could use my power and I could maintain splits of 1.38 for the 2k. But, if I put the resitance to say 5 or 6, I could get nowhere near the 1.38 splits without increasing my stroke speed dramatically, which I could not maintain. I am 6 feet 2 and weight of around 100kg. How do I get to 1.38 on a lower setting than 10?
It is a strange feeling but there shouldn't be much of a difference. If you are used to a heavy setting the lighter does "feel" slower. In reality it isn't and just needs some getting used to. That said though, if you are comfortable at a certain number go for it!
Inertia. Low drag factor means the fan retains the energy you put in for longer. High drag factor and the air acts as a brake and the energy you put in is dissipated quickly.
Tie it to your stroke rate. If you are doing a stroke rate of 16 - 20 a low drag factor with a long recovery as part of each stroke allows the energy to dissipate and the fan to not be at a dead stop for each drive. You can hear the fan slowing down on the recovery if you listen for it. So, fast drive with a slow recovery works with low drag.
If you have a high drag factor and low stroke rate you can end up effectively pulling from a dead stop on each stroke. It becomes a bit like doing a set of deadlifts. Only with your back compromised.
Low drag doesn't work well for higher stroke rates because, as Cam said in the video, the fan does not slow down enough by the time you get to the catch so if you put in the same amount of energy on the drive it does not accelerate the fan.
It should be obvious that higher drag factor will require you to have a faster recovery to avoid the fan stopping. You can't have a pronounced difference in time taken for the drive realive to the recovery as you wind the drag factor up.
The resistance number set will have to change to maintain the drag factor dependant on air temperature and therefore density.
Indeed. When we train at altitude it can be hard to grt a high enough drag factor.
Obviously dependent on the altitude!
How does the machine determine that drag factor? That is, how can it tell that you are opening and closing the damper? Does the monitor use that drag factor to calculate splits?
Yup you're spot on. All the calculations done on the monitor, there's a sensor that runs into the fan cage up to the monitor
The PM calculates the drag factor by measuring how quickly the fan slows down on the recovery.
Is the concept 2 app drag factor accurate?
Ergdata pulls the drag factor from the PM5 (or whatever monitor you use.) so the "concept 2 app drag factor" is as accurate and is the same as the drag factor you display on the pm5. This is the same value that ends up in the C2 log.
Erg maintenance pls
Great explanation, but as a lazy person, I wish there was a 'calculator' which would estimate the appropriate (optimal) settings , basing on my physical parameters (age weight height, endurance and strength levels)
For the lazy, use 4-5, drag factor 120-130. It'll cover essentially 99% of situations.
I've always been told that somewhere around 4 or 5 is what it's like being in a boat.
Depending on the erg and the boat yes!
If you’re using the erg to measure progress you should use the same drag factor for every test.
I understand why you'd say that. I'd say using the same drag factor is suitable for each distance for measuring progress.
@@CameronBuchan Yep
@Nooneinparticular987 How do you know what is optimal without testing?
so the higher the number say at 10 you have to do more work more effort and it feels harder to pull ,than if it is set on 1 and you pull it feels very easy and not much effort to pull??? is that about right....
Kind of.
The "pull" technically is always the same, just depends what speed the fan is spinning at. Since 10 brings in more air, it means the fan doesn't speed up as much and slows down faster so it feels like more work. 1 let's less air in and doesn't slow the fan down as much. This doest equate to speed on the monitor though which is the difficult part. Mostly down to the feeling may be quite different but the actual difference in in speed calculated by the monitor isn't much
@@CameronBuchan ok, put another way.. if you have the damper set on 10 and you do 30 strokes in 1 min then you set the damper on 1 and you do 30 strokes in 1 min , then it is easier to do 30 storkes in 1 min with a setting on the damper of 1.....
The more air gets in the fan, the more resistance it will get and the faster the wheel will slow down. The computer calculates the deceleration of the wheel in between two strokes to determine the drag factor. A drag factor of, lets say 120, will feel the same on any erg, even if it is high on a mountain in thin air. The choice of drag factor can be compared to selecting a large or small gear on a bicycle. If you are going to ride the race on a small gear, you will pedal lighter but needs to padel faster for the same speed. If you ride the race on a large gear, you will pedal much harder, but you can reach maybe a higher speed. You just have to find your sweet spot.
Correct with the air and how the fan reacts. Similar to gears on a bike yes, but as you said, the fan reacts when not adding work. Unlike on a bike, stopping pedalling doesn't slow you down differently with a heavier or lighter gear. It's always the same "resistance" when not adding work, air rolling etc. It's a difficult one to get a closer comparison so that people that new people to a rowing machine can grasp that really it doesn't matter as much as one may think, as long as you can get enough resistance for you. Generally around 110-140 depending on the person!
@@CameronBuchanThanks for your reaction. A low dragfactor feels more like a cardio workout while a higher dragfactor feels more like strength training. I wonder if top rowers like you always use the same dragfactor, or do they adjust it a little depending on the race distance?
@@hansvanschuerbeek6695 no problem! It's hard because either way, it's still very much cardio. I'll pretty much use the dame drag factor for everything unless I'm trying to do my fastest split I might raise it to give myself a little more resistance on the drive. Even then, it doesn't really make much of a difference to the overall number
Very helpful....thank you
Row 10k, 3 to 4 times a week on drag factor 10. Been doing this for years without injury. Is this just pure luck? My 10k time varies between 41 - 43 mins depending on my mood and condition.
Rowing with a higher drag factor doesn't mean you'll get injured. Injury comes with bad technique!
@@CameronBuchan That's what I thought min. Cheers Mr B. From Orkney myself, good to get some info off a fellow Scot ;)
@@KevinTullock keep up the big miles!! #yamsquad
At the first glance I thought he is blippi with the thumbnail
Does it work in the same way as an exercise bike...higher resistance at same RPM = faster speed?
No, that’s where most people get confused. The split is basically how hard you push. You can push hard on any resistance and get a very similar split.
Thanks Cameron. I've been trying to build up to a sub 20minute 5 Km since October last year. But I'm really struggling to get under 21 minutes. I've been blindly putting the resistance straight up to 10 every time believing the machine will recognise the extra effort and adjust the distance. I'll try some different settings now. @@CameronBuchan
Perhaps the drag factor should be related to one's body weight?
Hi, how can i attach a camera to a boat?
Hello there! I have made a couple of videos about just that!
@@CameronBuchan ok,thx for the answer, i'll look for them! :D
But, in competition then? What level is demanded? Or is it up to you? I mean, to get it approved. 😁
Yes any value for competition
Cant get used to anything except level 10. Cant find the catch on anything else. Normally around 30 to 35 spm. Feels like I would have to be at 45 spm to achieve same times at lower drag.
Sounds like something technical to work on!
@@CameronBuchan Thanks Cam I'm sure it is. Might try tune it up once gyms back open. Take care
@@Oncewasdonka fingers crossed sooner rather than later
I’m exactly the same, 29spm 18.28 damper 10, I would really love these guys to give it a go to see if they have the endurance to last
@@jasonhsrt10 is 18.28 a time for a specific distance? Also, which guys are you referring to?
Based on your comments there should be no difference in stroke resistance on damper setting 1 or damper setting 10, if doing the first stroke with a static flywheel.
The C2 Erg is basically a centrifugal pump. In place of a high density liquid like water, it is designed to pump air, a Low density liquid. The physics is the same. When the Damper is closed, #1 setting there is no flow, into the impeller (think fan) just churning inside the impeller housing. In this state the powered required to move the fan is minimal. In pump terms no useful Work. is being done, just creating heat. Open the damper and the air flows into the Center/side of the erg because of the pressure drop (vacuum) created by the shape and rotation of the fan blades. The damper control restricts the flow into the pump. Put it to #10 and you are at the maximum opening which as we know takes the most power to accelerate the wheel. Additionally when you recover the fan speed is decaying faster because of the amount of air being pulled into the fan blades and that that much more power will be needed to get the fan back up to speed. Ultimately it is the Power over time that creates the Work which is the meters covered in a specific time. Stroke rate x power will cover the distance faster. Increase either one while holding the other the same and you have a better result. The riddle of what drag factor should I use boils down to this. Set the highest factor you can sustain at the fastest pace, for the expected duration.
I’m not sure. As soon as the fan starts moving, if the damper is open the fan will start sucking in new air that needs to be accelerated which takes work from the rower. With the damper closed, the air is sort of locked inside and gets up to speed very quickly.
@@ASEJohnson that is my experience too. The open damper makes the drive part heavier even on the first stroke vs a closed damper so its not just the fact the flywheel is slowed down more from one stroke to the next
It's harder to poosh with a higher drag factor.... Got it
Bruh. Just tell me the drag factor I should set via the dampener. 130? 110? (skinny middle aged dude looking to break 15k for 1hr)
Like I said in the video, everyone is different. Little bit of experimenting to see what works for you is the only way to figure that out. I'd start around 130 and then go up and down from there to see what works best
Whoops i have had it on 8 and 10 setting... newbie fails.
Not necessarily bad but just a little unnecessary!
@@CameronBuchan i find it harder on the lower settings than the higher settings.
@@eetwtszdfsregreshteshu sounds like it could be a technical issue. I wouldn't be able to tell without seeing though