Can This Decade-Old Mac Pro Compete With Apple Silicon?
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2024
- CPU speeds have come a long way in the last 10 years or so, but I wondered if it was possible to get a modern level of performance out of a computer that was well past its prime. Could buying -- and upgrading -- a 2013 Mac Pro actually be a better value than buying a new computer?
Featured music: "Waterfront" by Duett (duett.bandcamp.com/album/leisure)
Sources:
"Cheesegrater" Mac Pro upgrade guide: blog.greggant.com/posts/2018/...
tonymacx86 Buyer's Guide: www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguid...
"Apple admits the Mac Pro was a mess," The Verge: www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/151...
"Apple pushes the reset button on the Mac Pro," TechCrunch: techcrunch.com/2017/04/04/app...
"Apple Says It Is "Completely Rethinking" The Mac Pro," BuzzFeed News: www.buzzfeednews.com/article/...
Mac Pro 2019 internal component photos: www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+P...
Mac Pro on wheels photo: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
OpenCore Legacy Patcher: dortania.github.io/OpenCore-L...
Thumbnail fire image: www.freepik.com/free-photo/bo...
00:00 - Introduction
01:32 - Initial benchmarks
02:24 - Upgrade parts
04:11 - Completely necessary installation montage
06:33 - SSD and RAM swap
07:12 - Performance differences
08:33 - Architectural limitations
11:17 - A better, but still flawed, successor
11:55 - Punching above its weight
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Music by Epidemic Sound (www.epidemicsound.com).
Intro music by BoxCat Games (freemusicarchive.org/music/Bo.... - Věda a technologie
Hard to believe this is already 10 years old. Felt like it was just yesterday when everyone was joking about it lol.
Not ten years old. Came out in 2013 it’s only 2022
@@HistoryandReviews almost 10 years, pretty insane to think abt tbh
don't worry, somewhere, someone was probably still joking about it yesterday :P
@@umran89 I Love mine
i never in my life ever knew this thing ever existed
At CZcams Space LA, which is now closed, they had editing suites for the top performing channels. They were all outfitted with these 2013 Mac Pro machines. I remember that these still seemed faster than my 16" MacBook Pro Intel for some reason. They handled 4K footage better. They're definitely not slow pokes, even by today's standards.
Ram, 4 channels, and more cores go a long way in highly threaded application.
The editing bays at my community college use a mix of these and the more recent cheese grater Mac pros. I don't use them myself but one of these days I want to do a side by side export between one of these and my base 14 inch MacBook Pro.
I have a maxed out late 2012 21.5” iMac, and it definitely isn’t slow at all. People have just started to think that old technology is really slow lol
Fans that are actually able to move heaps of air help alot too. Intel MBPs have loud fans, but they move a fraction of the air that a Mac Pro or iMac can.
@@hyphinx I feel like it's mostly due to software outpacing hardware, and obsolescence being forced on consumers
The disassembly montage really showcase how needlessly complex that design was. And it look like its a dust magnet too.
I had to replace the SSD in one that had been running 24/7 since 2013 and the inside of that was like a tumble dryer lint trap. I blasted it with canned air and made a bigger mess than I would have thought possible for such a small device.
Every computer requires dusting annually or you will get that kind of accumulation. The only real problem with the design is the lack of a dust filter that can be easily removed and cleaned without disassembly. All Mac's have that problem.
@@OldMan_PJ There are a lot of nook and cranny inside that bin where dust can settles in.
My stepdad spilled tea on one of these and they implemented a no drink on table policy since
Still more upgradeable than recent macs :D
It just blows me away that 2012 was a decade ago. Where did all the time go? 😭
Thats what I thought... I am old...
Nowhere. ‘Time’ is not a property that ‘ flows’ from one place to another.
@@Mindsi metaphor
yeah I mean the world was suppose to end at 21 december 2012! Remember that
🤣
@@socialhostage8534 pepperidge farm remembers…
I got one for $10 a few months ago at the swap meet, someone taped the power cord on the Apple logo, so there were no signs that it was an apple product while looking at it. It's a 8 core 64 GB 512 SSD, dual d700 graphics
Holy hell that’s a big W there 😳👍 good job on finding one
Thats so fkn cap 😂
Sounds fun, great buy!
Not too long ago, a neighbor was putting things out for bulk trash pick up or something. He put one out with similar specs with a 27-inch cinema display. I asked him if I could have them. He gave them to me. He was looking at me weird for being so happy.
gives veracity to that old saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure"
That was super interesting! Thanks for this one. "Macintrash HD" cracked me up!
I love the industrial design of this thing. Utterly gorgeous.
I agree. I love the design of the Mac Pros. Even the later cheese grater design was stunning.
agreed, if it did end up being a dead end design wise.
It’s breathtaking. I love it.
I know one reason why your channel does so well. You are an outstanding narrator. If this CZcams thing doesn’t work out, you could make a great living being a narrator. Oh, and great video by the way. I have zero interest in a 2013 Mac Pro, but I still found the video interesting.
It is absolutely beautiful and I couldn't care less about its performance. I lusted after one of these in 2013 but it was well beyond my wallet. However I bought one a few weeks ago and love it. I call it my micro-Cray :)
The SSD can't be that old because it has the UKCA regulatory mark that's only just been introduced. I believe it was only introduced at the beginning of 2021, and was hardly used at all until this year.
Yep, on the SSD it has Manufacturer Date of Nov, 2021
Yeah I have one, and I get why they sold it. While it's a great drive, when you write more than a couple of tens of gb in one go, it slows down to slower than spinning rust speeds. And before you say, "who writes tens of gbs in one go", I will tell you that a) I'm a developer who does imports of large databases, and b) some steam games rewrite the entire game when there's a patch, so that's an easy 80GB to rewrite.
@@dentjoener anyone who says that doesn’t really use the machines for storage but rather cpu and GPU. I have a Plex server and I’ll copy over 10s of GB no problem for a season
@@AlwaysBolttheBird over the network? Because gigabit ethernet they handle fine. More like local stuff. That gb/s drops down fast in my experience. But for most people it's probably fine. Doesn't really bother me either. Was cheap as hell for 2TB 3 years ago
@@dentjoener no I meant local. I have a virtual machine that is behind VPN and so on that gets shows and then I move it to the right drive after download. So it’s local stuff
That Duett song you featured was awesome and got me listening to them - thanks for including that in your description!
As always, very informative and interesting, Colin. I quite liked the way you did the disassembly montage.
Nice video - brought back some memories! For anyone considering upgrading one of these: be sure to thoroughly clean it and replace thermal paste on the GPUs at the same time. Since everything shares a heatsink, you need to do it all together for best results. Then install something like TG Pro to ramp up the fan earlier. Don’t go above 64GB RAM for maximum CPU performance.
i actually love this thing, can’t wait to pick one up for myself. sure to become a collector piece
Agreed. I'd love to have one on the mantle feeding the TV. Still looks absolutely futuristic.
Buy one with D700s, as you can not upgrade to low spec graphics due to lack of parts.
@@DavidJBradshawthat’s what I’d get too when/if I get a 2013 MP.
Really like these videos !! Your voice, the camera work and editing. Really good work here 😎
A visually appealing and well made video that caught my eye. I bought one of these units in 2013 because I loved the look and the performance was elite for a consumer product at the time. Now I use it as a music server, a job which it does very well. The fan is quiet when the cpu use is low. The usb outlets can be filtered and galvanically isolated in various ways. It’s still a joy to use. The only drag is the software sources that are drying up because the os i can’t be updated. The monolithic shape reminds of Kubrick’s ‘2001’. It’s understated alienware. At least on the outside. I wouldn’t have the courage to fiddle about with the innards though.
There we go! Maxed mine out two 2 months ago (4 x 16 GB RAM, 2,7 GHz 12-Core Xeon and 2 TB fast WD Blue SSD) and it's a DREAM as a work horse, doing all things Mac and being a hub for my life and as the cradle for my life-long Macintosh history.
Its still really impressive that an m1 mini give essentially the same performance as the 2013 pro. its quite a jump in performance for those entry devices
Those synthetic benchmarks don't take into account a lot of things modern software takes advantage of such as new instruction sets and much much faster memory. I would have been interested to see render and compiler benchmarks.
Keep in mind that when the SSD (or almost anything else) fails on the M series, it's lights out and upgrades are not possible.
Hell yeah, back to the sexy shots of machines being taken apart; I'm so into this!
Great vid, Colin.
You just reminded me that I have one of these in almost new condition packed away in a box somewhere. I seem to recall that I had spec'd it out to the max. I should dig it out and put it to good use, perhaps as a music production machine. Thanks for the video.
As I've told everyone else, if you want to compete with Apple Silicon on an older Mac, get an eGPU. Simple way to beat even a Mac Studio, RX 5700 XT via Thunderbolt 2 gets about the same Metal scores in GeekBench 5 as M1 Max chips.
Crazy it can accomplish that over Thunderbolt2
@@IgnoreSolutions TB2 is still fast enough for most people, and used gear is cheaper by the day.
@Joel Kalsi not really, remember that those Mac Pros just have PCIe 2.0 and that Thnuderbolt 3 is PCIe 3.0. Which makes them very close eachothers bandwidth. Also those old CPUs are certainly slower than modern ones, so for tasks that require both (such as gaming), a newer Mac with an eGPU may beat a Mac Pro 5,1. Not to mention that you don’t need much bandwidth for GPU-only tasks if you have a lot of VRAM.
The performance per watt doesn’t equate given the fact that how low power modern Macs take.
@@kumarcgowda assuming someone was actually trying a setup like this for work or something, I think price performance is probably a more important metric than efficiency
Colin makes some of the best tech videos I’ve seen. He deserves more subs for what he does.
Nearly pulled the trigger on a base model yesterday. Mostly for the design and not the performance. Perfect timing for a video.
Say what you will but I love my trash can. Got it as my first computer in late 2013 when I got my first credit card as a teen and it is still handling my music and video workloads to this day. (Logic Pro X and editing Gh5 footage on Premiere). Although it is currently on it’s last legs and will be replaced in the coming months, it has paid for itself multiple times over and got me through college. The portability aspect of it was also great for certain scenarios. I will remember it fondly.
Y 0:55
I’m still using mine, which I picked up secondhand 5 years ago for 2 grand. Having the D700s make a big difference on the GPU side. My plan is to keep it until the M3 Max Studio comes out sometime next year.
Clean it out and reapply thermal paste before you decide to ditch it! ...(if you haven't already)
@@DavidJBradshaw I added an, eGPU a Vega 64, I have 2 D500. If put those D300-700 under constant duress they die, trashcan.
The Vega destroys those D series graphic cards. I bought It for my Macbook Pro, but use It mostly on the Mac Pro.
Investing now in an eGPU is maybe a little late, you can't use It on the M mac.
I’m still rockin my 12-core, mid-2010 cheese grater… LOVE this tower. Have it spec’d just like I like it.
Enjoyed the vid. I love my trashcan. It has served me well in my general day to day and for my hobby (electronic music using Ableton). I got mine around 2015, as an Apple refurbished model with six cores and I think 16Gb ram. Over time I did the upgrades so now I have a 10 core CPU as I wanted to prioritise single core performance (quite a few music apps dud not support multicore). The 10 core was second hand pulled out of a server. The SSD is 2Tb but was a cheap option with the adapter and is on the slow side. Planning to upgrade next year but I won’t get rid of the plucky trashcan 👍🏻
Thank you, for this excellent upgrade video. A few months after the introduction of the new Mac Studio desktop, I noticed that the price of these units on the used market started to drop "like a rock". So, I picked-up a Mac Pro 8-core/D-700/64GB/ 1TB model and paired it with my 2010, Apple Cinema LED (none thunderbolt) display and everything has been working great. Using one of its six Thunderbolt-2 ports, I added a Fire-wire 800 adaptor. So, now all of my old Fire-wire 400 and Fire-wire 800 devices are also supported on my system (smile...smile).
How do we get the mac os if we decide to change the ssd
@@stormbreaker82 These is a You Tube video entitled "How to Install Mac OS using CD or USB" by Trackpad Productions.
Great video, almost bought one last year, but then I bought an m1 Mac book pro for a lot more as I needed the portability. However, I actually love the trash can design and how quiet it usually operates.
Great video! I recently upgraded from a 2.6 or 2.8ghz i5 2014 Mac Mini to a base Mac Pro w/16GB, 512GBSSD and 6 core CPU @ 3.5 that I upgraded from the 4 core 3.7 after only a few days of use. I used geekbench too and went from 865 down to 808 on single core, but up from 3400 multicore to around 5000 multicore. I felt like the 4 core 3.7 was actually snappier for the normal stuff like web browsing, mail, etc..but have no empirical measurements to back that feeling. But my multitrack mixdowns and encodings are much quicker moving from the Mac Mini to the Mac Pro, so for me the Mac Pro is a win. And it looks super cool!!!
Such an elegant upgrade, bring back the memory I had in university when doing all these upgrade stuff.
😊
I worked as an Apple Genius when this came out. It certainly had a wow factor, but not many of them were sold. As you mentioned the thermal issues and lack of expandability doomed it. However, the early cheese grater Mac Pros had their own issues. They were easy to service, but stupidly they put the liquid cooling pumps above the power supply. If the cooling system leaked it would instantly fry the power supply.
I thought only the G5 Power Macs had water cooling
@@bycuritiba You're right, it was the G5s. But the mistake is understandable, apple geniuses don't know anything about computers. Their only real job is to tell people with a broken USB port that they need to pay $1000 for a new motherboard, rather than just soldering it back on.
@@kyle8952 Isn't that the truth. A bit like, our software states your iPhone battery is perfectly fine, you need to upgrade to a new iPhone if you find it running slow after the latest update......
No Mac Pro had liquid cooling. The 5,1 mac pro is a much better computer than the 6,1 once it has been slightly upgraded. Better drive capacity, better graphics, better usb 3.1/3.2. To a lesser extent the 4,1 and 3,1 are not bad either, but the abundance of 5,1 machines out there makes them the pick of the bunch.
@@macguru9999 Actually the G4 dual Pro had liquid cooling as standard.
Love the format, and your commentary very good enjoyable. Thank you.
This Mac Pro is one of my favorites, lovento see it anywhere, even in an unlikely place such as this channel
I have one of these and use it as a daily at my desk and it does wonderful for me. I did a few upgrades and love it.
Great look at a device that sort of cut itself off at the knees. I love the look of the device, but was one of those that stuck to the prior “cheese grater” model (which I’m on right now, in fact). I’d love to pick one of these up as a collector’s piece, though, not sure if I’m ready to pull the trigger just yet, though. Interesting comparison to modern machines, by the way, I wasn’t expecting that kind of favorable comparison!
I've got a 2010 that I tried to rock as long as I could, but I just kept running into barriers. Lack of OS support limited what software I could run, and even the most up-to-date (supported) graphics couldn't drive a modern ultrawide display.
I ended up replacing it with a 2018 Mini that is more capable in every single way, except sheer volume.
Same.
If I were buying a 2013 for actual use, I’d go with a higher clock speed 8 core, and probably an eGPU.
@@nickwallette6201 more modern Minis-especially Apple Silicon-are certainly no joke! It is a sad reality, though, that the older girls don’t remain viable forever and indeed need to be put out to pasture. Just out of curiosity-did you play around with OpenCore Legacy Patcher at all? It mostly solves the OS support issue (with some caveats, of course), though ultimately the barriers won’t cease anytime soon on the older hardware. I’m fortunate that I can relegate my writer workflow to really any device that powers on, and I can keep the old Pro on Mojave without suffering any loss of crucial software (most of my work is done in Scrivener). That’s certainly not the reality for everyone, though.
@@BrianJones-wk8cx Nah, I did the firmware update to squeeze a few later releases of compatibility (maybe it was the 2009 to 2010 model patch?) But I never tried patching the OS. I used to play with Hackintosh a little bit, but the care and feeding of making an OS run on hardware it didn't want to run on wasn't for me. I'm relatively new to Mac OS, so I don't have the deep experience of troubleshooting boot problems, and when a box I wanted to use for something productive wouldn't boot because of ???, that's just not fun. And you always had to be careful to not update this, or don't enable that because it'll crash...
Plus, I had intended to use that Mac Pro for audio and video editing, and every time I solved one problem, I ran into another one. It just became clear after a while that I was putting in a lot of time, effort, and money to do something a newer computer could do with far less trouble, less power, and in a smaller footprint. So now, it's just a collector's piece, which is totally fine.
I pulled that trigger. I've found it to be sluggish compared to any M1 machine, and even worse with a modern Linux installed. I would advise against buying it for any serious application.
I really enjoy the way you approach information in your videos. 👏 Awesome. Thank you.
Really enjoyed this video, always wanted one of these. Thank you.
I had no idea these were socketed. That’s pretty awesome. I’m going to look around for a cheap one.
Definitely appreciate the comparison with modern Macs; I couldn’t help but wonder during the video. Also, Open Core Patcher wuhhh?? I need to check this out! Thanks, Colin!
Open Core Legacy Patcher is a godsend for older Macs of all kinds. Right now, for example, I have an old 2009 Mac Mini running Big Sur as a media server. While I wouldn’t load it up with a bunch of processes like Dropbox, Google Drive, and other background apps, mind you, but keeping it close to stock while sort of uni-tasking provides a surprisingly serviceable experience. Good enough for my media server needs, especially.
You and action retro are my 2 favorite old/vintage computer youtubers.
Great video, explanation, and tear down for the machine too! Was always intrigued by its design but at the same time saw the limitations and nope'd.
As much as I enjoy TDNC videos for being interesting and informative, it's really the camera/editing and music selection that ties it all together. 👌
Thanks for the video. I've been using one of these since 2015 for professional video work, and it's still working fine (up to 4k), I'll use it until the computer dies from exhaustion. Not the most powerful machine, but solid in performance.
do you edit 4K using proxies? How does it work with Davinci Resolve?
@@devhowto Hello, i use Premiere, and usually the files i edit are pro Res 4k.
Nice to see that one is still in use today from brand new (unless you’ve upgraded in the year since your comment). Have/had you done any upgrades to it?
Thanks for posting the Geekbench numbers. My 2009 iMac, with a Xenon X3470 yields 605 and 2150 (up from the original 540 / 1682 of the i5-750). It's getting rather long in the tooth, but I still use it often. Plus I love the 27" screen!
I came back to this video just to listen to the music again. Really love the music in this.
Thanks a lot for the detailed review, good job! I've got one about 2 months ago, 6-core - 2Tb SDD, 64Gb ram to run Parallels VM, just didn't have time to set it up but it does look reassuring. Machine is well cared, original box and replaced components. Just needed to find a decent cheap 4K monitor.
I bought a "mid-grade" 43" 4K TV to use as a monitor.....with a little tweaking, the display is just phenomenal for the price....and it works great as a Video streaming "hub".
And fascinatingly, 4k monitors slow down Apple Silicon to basically sludge.
@@stewie3128 I can say after 2 years of using a base M1 Mini that my 43" 4K TV, used at full resolution as a Monitor @ 60Hz, certainly DOES NOT slow the Mini in any way, shape or form.
@@goobfilmcast4239 thanks for the update. Looking at TV or monitors around 24" after holidays
Parralels? Why not use bootcamp
I used the same cheese grater mac pro 3,1 for ten years, keeping it going with upgrades and improvements. I remember being so angry when the 6,1 (trash can) was announced, because i could see that there would be no upgrade path for me once my 3,1 finally needed to be replaced. By the time the 7,1 finally came out, i had already moved on and have not bought an apple computer since, but the 3,1-5,1 cheese grater mac pros will remain forever in my heart as some of my favourite tech products ever.
Yup Apple losing its enthusiast customer base, getting more generic
@@hhkk6155 it's probably going to, eventually, alienate the last of their professional customers. i doubt any of that apple sillicon stuff is going to get the job done for audio production professionals.
@@BabyFawnLegs yes, and also the backdoor that they installed in latest OS, I don't want non of the big tech/big gobberment BS in my computer, what next?)
My God, the music during disassembly brought back memories of when I used to work on my Macs 😍😍
Got this video recommended on my feed, really good content! I like your selection of music, that can be a problem with tech youtubers ;)
I've been using mine since 2013 and it still runs an intense music studio flawlessly. That said I am going to be putting it to pasture shortly and going to be using my MS Laptop Studio as I would like to have the portability factor. Anyhow it's been a real workhorse and only issue I had was a faulty Logic board which was quite common on them and was replaced under apple care. I would rate it 10/10 for longevity and 10/10 for performance for my music needs.
Flawlessly?.need solid evidence to believe that.
One of the good thing about this MacPro that I like that it can support dual boot with windows
This literally answered a question I had when I considered buying one of these old Macs. Thanks!
They're a buy! Upgrade the CPU to the 8 core instead of the 12 if you're going to be using it as a desktop though.
@@nambrosch I thought about it, but I think my 2019 Intel MBP would probably get me more of what I want. Super tempting though!
I always liked these. Very cool video! Thanks!
I did pretty much the same last month. I got a 6 core, 16GB ram, 512gb SSD, D500 for around $350. Put 64gb ram and a E5-2695 V2 processor in it. Its a stop gap measure for me upgrading from a 2008 Mac Pro and waiting for a Mac mini m2 or m1 pro to come out maybe a Mac Studio if they get a bit cheaper.
For most uses the level of performance of an upgraded older computer is perfectly adequate. This has been a problem for PC manufacturers who are seeing low sales for new generation computers despite impressive performance improvements in CPU and GPU speeds. The higher performance is just not needed by many users.
Great video, professional and concise.
Excellent video Colin 😎 I’d definitely be on the hunt for one of these from now on… definitely will find one n hit the limit with one of these 👀
I honestly like how this looks, can fit into an entertainment center very easily with it's simple design, and it could be used as a media pc
And you can have windows and mac os on it
@@HistoryandReviews Yay Windows 😀
I'm super tempted to do this, partially because these are still reasonably-fast machines for the price, but mostly because in 10-20 years I'll kick myself if I don't have one of these machines on display next to my PowerMac G4 Cube 😃
it is the true successor to the cube - also at the cusp of intel -> M1 just as the cube was at the cusp of G4 -> intel.
@@johnpenner5182 This thing launched right in the middle of Apple's Intel period - eight years after the last PowerMac, and seven years before the first M1 machines - and it had an Intel-based successor, so no, not really.
The 2013 mac pro is still a solid machine and they're getting cheaper.
@@johnpenner5182 The Cube wasn't at the cusp of G4 > Intel. The G5 came afterwards FFS!
I just bought one for $500 and it's a marvelous machine. I'm using mine daily w/ the last gen mechanical Mac peripherals for the sake of nostalgia. It's lovely!
I’m expecting a 2013 Mac Pro to arrive today. Information regarding a SSD upgrade was very helpful.
Enjoying the 80s/early 90s style background music during the install.
I nabbed one of these with a mid tier config (6 core, dual D500s, 1TB SSD) for $55 at a thrift store and I gotta say it performs way better than I expected.
That’s a ridiculous price, obviously didn’t know what they were selling
I've been using mine since 2013 and similarly upgraded the ssd, cpu to the 8-core model (prefered the higher clock speed) and 64gb memory. I'm glad that I paid extra for the top tier GPUs at the time because it's definitely helped future-proof this machine that Apple still has yet to replace.
what do you mean 'still has yet to replace'..? you don't consider the newer Mac Pro as a replacement?
@@lexacutable or the Studio.
A very very poor replacement.
Technically yes, it is the next iteration, but the 2013 Mac Pro is a special device.
Probably, very use case specific machine.
Brilliant video, thank you.
May I just say I create content and certainly appreciate what you do. Keep it up and I think you deserve better numbers.
Granted you have to mod it to do so, you can get an eGPU to work on that machine. I have been using mine now since this past June and can't complain. It's been running pretty solid since. I actually have 2 of them that are used for video editing and graphic design. I have that exact setup, except I have the D500's.
the mac pro 2013 has thunderbolt 2. egpu‘s need thunderbolt 3. but thanx to apple adding metal support to blender, cycles can now render on the firepros.
@@m13v2 you are half right. Using a version of Open Core, you can enable eGPU, which I have done. Works very well. You’ll get about 80% of the potential though, so mileage may vary.
I really appreciate the thinking outside the box when it came to the trashcan MacPro. The thermal limitations and lack of upgradability of the design could have been fixed if they sold the machine as a Mini Plus.
As a fan of small mini-itx builds, the design of the trashcan is very appealing.
if they would have gone a little further with the cooler design to be more like the XBOX Series X I think it would have held up
Yeah, this is basically a Mac Studio before such a thing existed. It's a pretty great design, it just isn't suitable for those who want to evolve their computer over time. It's really more of a buy, use, retire machine. Which, to be fair, is probably exactly what _most_ people do -- even professionals -- and the outrage over lack of upgradability is mostly theoretical.
@@nickwallette6201 except for being able to upgrade the GPU, which is completely real-world. If it were a tower, you could be sticking an RX6900XT in there even now.
Plus, it meant Apple couldn’t be bothered to bring out newer versions, as they realised it was a dead end.
@@axi0matic I dunno. I don't keep track of Xeons, but I would imagine there were a few later processes that would've put more clocks and/or more cores in the same TDP.
This is just speculation, but I think they lost their motivation. They got caught up in their form-over-function euphoria and expected the world to gasp in awe. And when that didn't happen, I think it was a bitter pill. They probably waited for people to "come around" for a while, then again, took a cold shower of reality and had to accept that it was a mistake.
There's absolutely no reason they couldn't have either incrementally improved the specs of the current design, or moved away from that platform in favor of something else with more headroom. The fact that it took so long seems like there were some internal struggles that resulted in a stalemate for a while. The engineers vs. the design engineers, or whatever.
Regardless, I'm actually most fond of their failures. I LOVE the G4 Cube, and the Trashcan. (Well, and the iMac G3 and iMac G4 -- which weren't failures, and the G3 actually brought them back from the brink. But whatever.) I don't (and didn't) have to depend on them, though. I can just admire them as sculptures that happen to run Mac OS. Not nearly so much fun for those trying to do actual work at the time.
@@nickwallette6201 That's what I meant when I said Apple couldn't be bothered - it would certainly have been possible. I'm sure that over 6 years, there would have been newer Xeon models that fitted the TDP and provided a reasonable uplift in performance. Same with the GPUs - even something like Vega 56 may have worked if slightly down-clocked. Plus faster NVMe, RAM, TB3 etc.
Apple seem reluctant in general to build Mac Pros, likely because they a) represent tiny numbers of sales, and b) are fundamentally unlike all their other products. They tried with the 2013 MP, then with the iMac Pro, to make a compact pro machine with no internal expansion, before eventually conceding defeat and going back to a tower. Apple's 'vision' though was fundamentally about saving costs and warehouse space, not giving pros the machine they wanted. They likely hoped they could wait out pro Mac users, who would eventually accept the tower wasn't coming back and just accept what they were given. And as with the Touch Bar MBP, they probably also wanted to recoup tooling costs before moving on, plus avoid the image of failure that comes from reversing course too soon.
They likely started to see an exodus of high end users to Windows towers, forcing the very uncharacteristic move of publicly admitting they messed up, and pleading with pro users to keep the faith and wait for the new tower (the design of which probably started from scratch that morning). In general, the problem with Apple in the pro space is a total lack of roadmap. No one knows what form their future pro desktops will take - or even whether they will exist. The Apple Silicon MP is currently in this limbo.
People, including Colin, talk about the dual-GPU concept in the MP6,1 as 'betting on a future that didn't work out', but this is bullshit. No-one was predicting that future. Fundamentally, Apple just wanted to build a compact cylinder (so they could use one big fan), and arranged the hardware to suit. It was a pure exercise in form over function. As a Cube owner myself, I love these stylish follies from a collector's point of view. The iMac G4 (which I also own) is arguably in a similar category, as its design required a heavy lead-alloy base to allow for the floating screen (the later 'fat LCD monitor' approach is a lot more practical). But as you say, they are not fit for purpose as work tools, and sell accordingly.
This was very informative...I live in a mixed computer world, and have a Mac Pro 5,1 pretty much maxxed out (12 core, 128gb RAM, 20tb storage), but also have a base mac pro 6,1 we got in an insurance settlement after a lightning strike. I love the form factor of the 5,1. East to access things and change drives. I wanted to see what we could do to the 6,1 as I was eyeing a 2017 iMAC Pro purchase. I like the idea I can upgrade the CPU tpo 12 core and max the RAM out at 128 without too much pain. Thanks again.
I still have mine, upgraded to 64GB RAM. It’s a great desktop for web design and graphics editing, being small, quiet and sleek. While it’s not my main system (that’s a Surface Pro 2022 model) it’s been a faithful and issue free system over its decade with me. Helps that it was a freebie from a client to entice me to take a contract, but I wouldn’t feel sore had I paid for it.
I have an old G4 on a shelf too, just for the delicious design cues.
Something that wasn't mentioned is that the "FirePro Dx00" cards weren't technically proprietary, they were just desktop GPUs from 18 months prior with the names changed and custom drivers. I.E the D700 is just a downclocked version of the HD7970 6GB. A extra little tidbit of info is that this info was public at the time of launch, however many Apple fans on forums flat out rejected the truth and maintained that it was more likely that Apple would be putting $8000 of rebranded W9000 cards in a $6000 computer.
Thing is, the only difference in hardware between the HD 7970 6GB and the W9000 is the 6 mDP ports, SDI out, a slightly different heatsink shroud, ECC VRAM, and different firmware. (And moving some resistors around on the PCB) otherwise they’re the same hardware. Most of the extra cost comes from the software certifications that the industry the FirePro was targeting required.
A decade!!!! My ass.. feels like yesterday. Speed isn’t everything, if a computer runs the software you require then you don’t need to upgrade in my opinion…it’s all about the software, for my work I try to use my computers as long as possible. Good for the environment also,
Quite right. Too bad Apple does not agree with you.
thanks for this high informative video, I still using this machine since 2014 as my main desktop computer and I am writing these words using Mac Pro, I was thinking to buy Mac Mini but after your video I will stick with Mac pro
Dig the video - big Dave Schwimmer energy. Well done.
I can’t believe we’re only a month and a bit away from 2013 being 10 years ago…. How has time gone so fast?!
you're getting old :)
I still think this is one of the coolest designs Apple ever made and the concept of a central cooling system is amazing. I couldn't afford one at the time, but now that prices have come down (a lot) I'm debating getting one. It would be a dream to find one still new in box.
They still have some of the best I/O of any Mac, and you can get old Thunderbolt accessories super cheap these days. It's not as bad of an idea as it seems like at first.
I bought new in box off ebay in 2020. Wrapping, tape, and everything still in ties
Great video, lots of useful information.
Very well done. Thank you! Always thought these were cool!
A great video, but a quick and probably silly question... What is it like if you run Windows on it? As I'm looking for a web development machine and rather than having to run a Mac and PC, I was looking at one to run Windows on as well, and then occasionally just in to MacOS when needed...
I still have that Mac in my office today. My new IT guy didn’t realize it’s a Mac. He thought it was a speaker. It does look like a Bluetooth speaker by today’s standard though. 😅
Great video. I have my original Mac Pro mid-range model which I received in December 2012. I later upgraded to 64 GB RAM and a 1TB NVME (back when I did it there were no adapters I could find, so had to eat OWC cost).
It is sitting next to my new Mac Studio Max and iMac 27" i9. For the last year or so I've used it as a MySQL server machine under Boot Camp, with Windows 10 Pro, disabling the AMD drivers in an attempt to save heat, and running via MS Desktop Remote drivers from my other Macs.
I have a reconditioned Dell T7910 dual Xeon, with 192 GB RAM arriving any day, to take over the server work, and you have made me want to go back and check out the Mac Pro with Monterey. I have it sitting on an auxiliary, powered fan pad but its heat generation and fan noise has always been the obvious gripe. Have you looked into additional cooling strategies? I thought about putting it in a small cocktail fridge! ;)
I've been using one of those for almost a decade to edit video. Spent a huge chunk of money on it, but it served me well and I about twice a year the thing gets to travel with me in my small photo backpack.
You should do a video comparing Apple Silicon to a powerful Hackintosh next.
Ooooooo. That would be interesting to see!
It is nerve-racking to watch all those screws come out. I swear I start thinking I am gonna lose screws if I am not careful lol. Oh I am not doing it thank God.
I finally acquired a 2013 trashcan Mac Pro for a bargain price in December 2022 (and made a new friend out of the seller).
Mine has had quite an upgrade journey: I upgraded the RAM to 64 GB, and upgraded the SSD from the stock proprietary 256 GB SSD to a 500 GB NVMe SSD, then a 1 TB NVMe, THEN a 2 TB NVMe (and my 2010 cheesegrater Mac Pro inherited the 1 TB NVMe drive).
I love my Mac Pro. It runs extremely well, and I really enjoyed upgrading it.
MAN, i was jammin to that track when you taking apart that mobius cylinder....
As these come down in price, I consider adding one to my ever increasing pile of older Macs... But, since I tend towards various aspects of gaming or graphic layout designs -- the dismal GPUs always make me pause.
I'm very curious to see what external GPU enclosures can do for these - I'm still tweaking 2010-2012 Pros to do, what I consider, to be amazing things. I tend to use Linux more nowadays, as I've felt less and less connection to MacOS since after Mojave (crap, I'm old, I remembered the same feeling about OSX back in the early 2000s! However, years of Catalina/Monterey/Ventura haven't softened me to the further push into iOS territory).
Great video, but I have yet to see anything on external GPUs with these, and I'm really curious what a 6000-series Radeon could do here... Or even dropping back a few OSes and putting a Nvidia web-driver supported card in (if this could take a 980ti at a good clip, it might be one nasty gaming rig for my CRT obsession - a thing I use my 2010 Mac Pro with Titan for!).
Thanks for all you do :)
If you find one with D700s then they are ok. Otherwise the BlackMagic Vega 56 looks really good next to it and runs just as quite.
I actually used one of these for over a year until recently, and I loved it. The graphics performance was the major limiter for me though, given that I work in game development and the industry has moved on.
The heat was never really an issue because I used a fan control app and the CPU never went above 80 degrees, nor the dual D700s above 70.
I also managed to get this funny SSD carrier board that enabled the installation of two additional NVMe SSDs, so I had a total of 3TB of SSD storage in there.
That was called the Angelshark by Amfeltec. Bought mine new from them in June and ever since have had an issue with one of the NVME slots not wanting to read my NVMEs. A blue light stays on under my Mac and Amfeltec wont respond on how to fix it and their manual doesnt even mention the light s coming from the board
Thanks for this level headed overview of the Trashintosh. While I've always been a PC user, I've always had my eye on these.
Great music for the tear down video
I once pointed to one of these in a computer store and asked my daughter if she knew what it was. As she'd never seen one before, she thought for a moment and said, "A trash can?". I couldn't help but laugh.
Great vid👍🏻 this machine with a Linux distro would be killer😊
Yep, I run Pop!_OS on mine. I love the little beast.
I recently picked up a mid range 2013 Pro with an 8 core processor, 32GB RAM, and D500 graphic cards. For a near 11 year old machine it does surprisingly well on the benchmark tests and doesn’t feel like it’s that old.
The install music is fire!
As someone who uses Mac & Linux in my personal life, I really like our options right now. My music studio has a 2012 Mac Mini which I scored for free from an employer who was going out of business, and my main laptop is a 2012 MacBook Pro, which I got for $125. I paid for upgrades like you, but didn't spend much. Now my Mini has 12GB of RAM, and my laptop has 16GB. I don't really do much video editing, just audio recording/mixing, and lots of web browsing. OpenCore takes them to Ventura, but Monterey runs better, and it's supported. Once support drops entirely, who cares! They're Intel-based, and Linux runs just fine on them, and will likely be supported for a decade to come. I only need the Mac side for Logic Pro, and that will work forever even if MacOS isn't getting updates.
Recently bought one of these for £230 after upgrades and selling the old parts I’ve now got one with D500s 2tb sad and 64gb ram for around £375. Got it to replace a 2012 base model Mac mini I’ve been using for 10 years. So was well worth the investment until I can get a good deal on an M1 Mac mini.
got a 2tb 16gb m1 mac mini for about $1000 used a few months ago. was looking at the trashcan, but dropped the idea due to price concerns. didn't know there was an upgrade path for the cpu though.
@@GeirEivindMork the NVME, GPU, and CPU can be upgraded
Wow. This is fascinating.
I had one of these for a few years. It was just okay, and I was never very happy with it. I ended up switching to a iMac 5K a few years later and that machine was so much faster (for what I was running, anyway) AND way more capable, and also had a great built-in display.
The Pro was also an absolute magnet for cat fur.
13:14 Keep in mind that the M1 Mac mini's RAM runs 2.3x faster than the Mac Pro's original RAM and its SSD is 4x faster than the Mac Pro's (and probably lower latency as well thanks to the SSD controller being on-die and the storage being physically closer to the SoC). Not to mention the M1's on-die cache hierarchy is probably much superior to the Xeon's as well. So it will probably depend heavily on what kind of workflows you have if this Mac Pro with 64GB RAM outperforms an M1 Mac mini wth 16GB.
Trash can also runs at 150W idle
I was selling my original M1 13" MBP and some bloke tried to trade me a base model one of these. I couldn't even formulate a response that wasn't all snark. No warranty. No Ventura. Massive efficiency delta. Too old 🐻.
I think if you are already on M1 there is no reason to go back down the hill for most use cases.
pretty cool design. hadn't seen it down here in Australia (only cheese graters). good to see it perform so well still.
Thanks for that! I have one and may upgrade the CPU